USFK and the ROK to form a joint division

The USFK and the ROK army has agreed to form a joint division by next year, 2015.  This join division will essentially be the current U.S. 2nd Infantry Division, plus one brigade sized Korean unit.  The division will be commanded by an American two star general and will have a one star Korean deputy general.

(Photo from Yonhap)

Apparently, this division won’t be officially formed until wartime.  The 2nd ID would function and administer itself normally.  However, a Korean brigade sized mechanized infantry unit (heavy on armored personnel carriers and tanks) will be stationed along side the 2nd ID at Camp Humphreys in Pyongtaek (which itself is scheduled to be completed in 2017).  If there’s a war or an emergency situation (i.e. North Korea collapses) then the two units will officially combine.

What does this all mean?  Well, all the sources I’m reading indicates that it will mean the 2nd ID’s 1st Brigade and 2nd Aviation Combat Brigade  (both stationed in Korea) will have a consistent Korean brigade sized unit to train and exercise with.  Additionally, the division will be separate from the Combined Theater Command, i.e. the apparent structure where command of forces in Korea will be transferred to ROK control.

I wonder what this means for the other two combat brigades of the 2nd ID, the 2nd and 3rd Combat Brigades (Stryker), stationed in Ft. Lewis, Washington?  Too early to tell, but the Korean mechanized brigade technically makes one of them redundant.

An American division being augmented by a foreign brigade.  Has this ever happened before?  Even in NATO?

Notes

An American infantry division is about 17-21k men.

A mechanized brigade is about 3,000 to 4,000 men.

 

  • redwhitedude

    The closest I can think of is the Eurocorps. There is a Franco German Brigade under it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocorps

    Perhaps this will cushion some of those people who fret about the transfer of command which probably have to happen eventually.

  • wangkon936

    Not related to this thread, but I thought it was interesting.

    Iraqi soldiers using a Kia Bongo truck to fire rockets at ISIS positions in northern Iraqi.
    .

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    This is the camel’s nose poking further under the tent. The endgame will be a Korean officer and staff commanding the combined division, Combined Forces Command, and UN Command.

  • redwhitedude

    There was a Toyota war in Africa because of the frequent use to toyotas as technicals. Now what? KIA war?

  • redwhitedude

    On another unrelated note, why is the press screaming foul over the Japanese reinterpretation of their constitution to give their military some teeth to guard against China? Do they not realize that this change in language is directed at China not at Korea? This is the sort of emotional rants that plays into China. China doesn’t give a flying dam they are only in it for themselves. Look at them repatriate any NK defector to NK to face certain death and do absolutely nothing about trafficking of NK women. I wish the press would mention this more.

  • flyingsword

    I don’t know if it has been done as a permanent long standing organization. Done very often during wars. Happened often in the Korean war with BN’s and Brigades of foreign forces being assigned to US units.

  • flyingsword

    I need one of those. Do they come in a forward firing configuration?

  • wangkon936

    I will never look at a Bongo truck the same again.

  • Sumo294

    Hey wangkon936–that scene in the new Call of Duty where the special forces are battling in Seoul–how many years away are we from having guys that can fight at that level of sophistication? Just asking for an estimate.

  • wangkon936

    I dunno… maybe 20-30 years? Why so long? Need to pioneer battery technology to provide portable energy to all those power suits. Standard lithium batteries can probably only power those suits for like 10 minutes.

  • bumfromkorea

    There was a show by Dr. Michio Kaku (can’t remember what it was called), but it was about him trying to make a real-life version of the things in Sci-Fi TV shows/movies (spaceships, lightsabers, etc.) and what tech we’re missing. I remember that it almost always involved inadequate technology to store energy.

  • bballi bballi paradise

    When do you see Bongo’s in California. Are they there?

  • Sumo294

    I am so woefully ignorant of mechanical, electrical and civil engineering. My fundamental weakness is mathematics–if only I had pushed myself to study subjects like quantum theory I would then venture to say I knew a little something about this world. I understand stats but really everyone can do that with six months of study.

  • wangkon936

    My uncle lives in the shigol in Chungcheongnam-do and he has a Bongo truck. As a matter of fact it seemed like every ajusshi in his effing village has one (perhaps maybe even two?). I dunno… perhaps some of them could have been Hyundai HDs. I didn’t take a real careful look.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    This is the biggest b**lcrap I ever heard since Dr.StrangeLove envisioned filling the bunker with 2-3 women per man. Act and train separately but combine to form an unit at the event of war? Dream on. Korean army will hand over its most precious, and may be the only and the most powerful, force in the time of war? Whom the Korean defense department will command?
    Let’s face it. When the war breaks out, the US soliders, if they are here after 2015, will be listening only to the US generals while Korean soldiers will follow Korean generals. There will be unfortunately this schism between two forces. Especially about going north into NK territory. SK generals, once gained an upper hand, will go crazy about the dream of unification while the US generals will want to limit the scope of the war and worry about China entering the war. The schism between two countries may grow bigger and reach redefinition – become enemies.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    The US and Japan must do more psy ops. Advertizement of China atrocities, China ambition, China enslavement of NKs, etc.. I only see the Chinese propaganda in Korean newspapers – how evil the Japanese are. And, America backing these horrible warmongers. The US is losing badly in this area. Koreans are slowly turning into pro-Chinese. Time to take over Korean media.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    Things are so bad right now that if you say anything good about Japan you are immediately branded as “Japan-lover” and you are lowered into a Jew under Hitler rule. You must say anti-Japan slogans to show you are not on the Japanese side. Koreans are finding common cause as the anti-Japan people. Yet, no Koreans admit that automatically mean they are pro-Chinese. Koreans can be so ignorant about what they are standing for.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    Koreans are forever confused about what they love, what they stand for and which country they support. In fact, SKs are divided into two factions – Jolla Commies and Kyensang generals. But right now, they both are ardent anti-Japan zealots. So, if I asked them, “are you pro-China then”. They say No. What are you stand for, men! If you say you love baseball and live in NewYork and say you do not like Yankees then you must be Mets fan! Or, you are not a baseball fan at all. There can’t be no other choice realistically.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    Russians? Koreans say no. I am lost as they are.

  • dlbarch

    It is all but impossible to have any meaningful conversation in Korea about Japan these days. Suggest for a moment that Korea was a net beneficiary of its colonial and post-colonial relationship with Japan, and you will instantly get the tired and boorish “you don’t really understand Korea” treatment.

    It has always been bad, but lately it’s gotten a lot worse. The irony is that while the Korean Left has always been critical of Japan, the genesis of anti-Japanese propaganda has been with the Korean Right, which found in Japan the perfect outlet for Korean nationalist rage even as very conservative elements of the country did VERY well politically and economically by fostering close Korea-Japan ties.

    (In the 1980s, the Left used to criticize the Chun regime for its fostering of the 3-S’s — sports, sex, and screen — as diversions to keep Koreans entertained and un-involved in politics. Maybe. But one could add that both Left and Right conspired to keep animosity against Japan alive and well as a diversion away from domestic discontent.)

    In any event, just don’t tell the pyongmin…they don’t know anything anyway.

    DLB

  • wangkon936

    Dude… you’re not seriously biting on one of Baduk’s comments are you?

    .

  • dlbarch

    I stand by my posts…however they happen to be generated.

    DLB

  • A Korean

    And maybe the Jews are “net beneficiary” of Nazis for there would be no state of Israel if it wasn’t for them.

  • dlbarch

    And to think some on MH a month or so back actually tried to deny that Koreans were anti-Semitic.

    That’s the great thing about MH…sometimes all you have to do is sit back, relax, and just wait to be proven correct.

    DLB

  • A Korean

    The numbskull scolds Koreans for acting up when he suggests Japan swallowing up and lording over Korea may have been beneficial to Korea, but when the table is turned, the dumbass goes straight to anti-semitism.

    Anti-semitism, eh? Schmuck.

  • Sumo294

    You can derive a good from anything–I mean anything at all. For example, you can point to the Holocaust as being the principle driver of the modern Jewish State that led to the creation of a secular movement that was successful in uniting disparate regional religious movements and national groups into a community that successfully defended its new interests in the land now called Israel. The modern state of Israel can be portrayed as a net positive result of the Holocaust. It does not make the Holocaust a wonderful and an amazing experience–in fact–the Holocaust was simply–pure EVIL. The colonization of Korea–the raping of Korean women by coercion–the deforestation of entire national forests and the forced conscription of men into armed forces was a brutal and horrible experience. Take your incredibly unkind, ignorant, and unloving viewpoints and go practice politics in your neighborhood in Florida. Your sense and understanding of Korean history is willfully a lie. Your viewpoint is a tool for leftist socialist sympathizers.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    I don’t see the anti-Semitism in the comment. A Korean is making a radical and acerbic analogy to the notion that Korea was a net beneficiary of Japanese occupation. Yet it’s not anti-Semitic. Anti-semitism is hostility toward, prejudice against, or discrimination of Jews. None of these are in the comment above.

  • wangkon936

    I’ve said this before:

    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2013/11/20/japan-annoyed-by-plan-to-build-statue-of-criminal-korea-china-tell-tokyo-to-screw-off/#comment-1131396592

    .. and I’ll say this again, but I find your ability to draw upon historical consciousness disappointingly one sided. As someone part of a group of people who experienced tremendous injustice in the 20th century, I had hoped that your sensitivity on the matter would lead to fairer conclusions and attitudes.

  • wangkon936

    “The numbskull…”

    “…the dumbass…”

    Be careful…

  • wangkon936

    A part of me hopes that if enough people ignore him, he will just go away.

  • woo1693

    Eh, I served with the ROK military as an officer and to be honest, I think you are right to a certain extent. However, no schism is way too far. To tell you the truth, the US too much control over the ROK military as it is. I have no idea who has the military command over US-ROK alliance right now (we were discussing about retrieving the command from the US but I’m not sure if it happened yet) but from this point, we do what the US military do. With all honesty, despite the fact that we are technological superior over the Japanese, the US will most shell and clear the path for us while we advance. However, I think your theory is a bit too far fetched in my opinion. Also let’s face it, China loses more helping North Korea then gaining anything.

    Ps. What’s with your username dude?