Tiaras, t*ts and human rights abuses, Ashley Madison sues, K-pop’s black fans & more dangerous satire

– Well, I’m sure you’re all familiar now with the Burmese beauty queen who allegedly ran off from Korea with a tiara and a new set of boobs. The organizers have taken to the press to bash her, but judging from this piece in the excellent Korea Observer, it would seem there are some serious shenanigans going on with the organizers, too. And this is not the first time allegations have been made against the pageant in question, either.

– Ashley Madison is suing Korea, accusing Seoul of blocking their website for no reason other than to protect local companies:

The suit alleges South Korea is trying to give its own companies a leg up when it comes to breaking into the Canadian market.

“The defendants’ anti-competitive practices in South Korea have a direct impact in Canada on communications and social networking businesses and websites competing for the Korean-Canadian and Asian-Canadian market for such websites,” it claims.

“Given the global reach of the Internet, a social networking service that meets with success among any particular group of people in one country has or will have a significant competitive advantage among people of that same group or related groups in other countries.”

OK, granted, we are talking about a country that criminalizes adultery and arrested some, ahem, entertainers for shooting porn… in Canada.

But we’re also talking about a country that’s not above a bit of neo-mercantilism, either.

– In case you were wondering, yes, there are black folk who like K-pop.

– Yes, Korea has a plagiarism problem, although as everybody knows, it’s not because of Confucianism. It’s because of PTSD.

– Last, but certainly not least, I’m pretty sure I’d agree with little of this guy’s politics, but he’s right when he says, “Satirizing political power should not be a crime.”

  • redwhitedude

    I’m guessing most blacks aren’t fans of Kpop let alone know what the heck that is.

    As to pageant winner. It sounds like the grand prize was the tiara and new sets of boobs. I wonder what type of contestants it will attract? Probably the type that these organizers deserve.

    As to the case of shooting porn in another country and getting busted for it back in Korea. Not sure if that is obviously wrong way about it but you do have douchebags who figure that nobody will find out back home and do whatever the want.

    As to faking credentials. Korea really needs to take it more seriously to fix that problem.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    The beauty pageant organizers’ own words convict themselves better than any devil’s advocate could:

    May Myat Noe, Myanmar’s first international beauty queen was too young to enter Miss Asia Pacific World and was stripped of her title for borrowing money for $18 bras and complaining about a violation of her human rights, according to a senior official of the beauty contest Saturday.

    May Myat Noe is still only 15 years old despite the fact the organizer’s website states that she is 18 years old, the minimum age required to enter the contest, said Y.C. Choi, the founder and president of Miss Asia Pacific World.

    “Her birthday is on Oct. 13, 1998,” he reluctantly acknowledged. He, however, argued that he belatedly learned about her real age by checking her passport in early May, just days before the opening of the contest.

    So, he “belatedly learned about her real age by checking her passport in early May, just days before the opening of the contest”, which he thinks gives him some kind of pass? Did they really think that entering into a contract with a minor would not be cause to void the contract? These organizers didn’t even have the sense to quietly let her compete without winning or placing in the pageant.

    Oh, and then to take physical control over a 15 year old (she is still 15!) without her legal guardian seems more child trafficking, and I hope Korean authorities investigate.

    Choi argued that she disgraced the organization by borrowing money to buy $18 bras after breast implants.

    Yeah, that’s what disgraced the organization.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    …and it gets better:

    “Don’t you think threatening is necessary if one does not behave even after being educated?” he asked, adding that she did not live up to the organization’s expectations and irritated him by demanding schedules in advance.

    She irritated him by demanding schedules in advance even after being educated? Oh, the ungrateful strumpet, jackel, whore, cunt, …what a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.

    Wanting schedules in advance, who does she think she is? She sounds like an ex-pat English teacher.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Protecting local companies? Match.com, OKcupid, and Tindr are not blocked. The difference is that Ashley Madison is explicitly and specifically for extramarital affairs, which as RK notes is illegal in SK. I’d be very surprised if a Korean rival popped up on the web.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    It does not seem to be a requirement, however, that the members of AshleyMadison.com are married to anybody at all. It cannot be said that the only purpose of the site is to foster or encourage extramarital affairs. And, it should be noted, none of the other dating websites currently active in Korea actually verify the marital status of their members, many of whom may in fact be using the site to conduct extramarital affairs.

    With respect to a Korean rival to AshleyMadison.com, have you heard of Gihonja.com? I hadn’t. That site apparently solicits members who are married (hence the name), but asks them to declare that they are not using Gihonja.com to conduct an extramarital affair. This begs the question why join a dating website at all, but I guess all those virtuous Korean married people are looking for hiking partners, a crafting group, or a book criticism club.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    http://www.koreaobserver.com/myanmar-beauty-queen-says-she-is-16-and-asked-to-escort-business-tycoons-23515/

    She should keep it. Looks like many suspicions were right. Sure, its her word against theirs but I am far more inclined to believe her than them.

  • SalarymaninSeoul
  • SalarymaninSeoul
  • Anonymous_Joe

    It’s more like their words against their words. Based on their own statements, I can’t imagine bigger idiots.

    I suspect that their attitudes are based more on a cultural rather than legal understanding of contracts and contract law based on their sense of righteousness.

    Where they’re really screwed, however, is in trying to enforce a contract against a minor. What’s worse for the pageant organizers is that they admittedly knew she was a minor.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Ashley Madison’s slogan is/was “Life is Short. Have an affair.” The intended purpose (though not necessarily the only purpose) of their website is to set up married individuals.

    And I’m sure plenty of people use other dating sites for extramarital affairs, but the sites themselves don’t encourage it the way Ashley Madison does.

    I was not aware of Gihonja. That’s very sneaky/sleazy of them. Maybe Ashley Madison should have a joke declaration as well.

    Yet I’m still not convinced that AM is banned for protectionist reasons. There are Korean dating services as well, yet foreign-based internet dating services are still available.

    I don’t agree with protectionism, and I don’t think Ashley Madison should be banned on moral grounds, but I do think their blatant marketing as an extramarital affair service gives the government a reason to ban them. If they want a shot at Korea, perhaps they should rethink their marketing strategy.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    South Korea is turning out to be like a freaky tacky version of Jerry Springer + Daily Mail + North Korea.
    I mean, look at the costume of the British one Amy Willerton at the bottom of that Daily Mail article.I don’t know where she wore that, but that costume sums it all up.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    An “affair”, by the way, is not exclusively extramarital. It’s a word that lets you see what you want to see.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    A problem lies in Korean authorities’ failing to enforce extra-marital affair and certainly prostitution legal prohibitions.

    I’ve often wondered the reasons. Is it that the red …err pink light districts are seen somehow as an invisible Brigadoon that magically emerges at night yet lies hidden by day?

    Is it that internet sites are seen outside of Korea and therefore affects perceptions of Korea?

    Is it that those who have interests in the ubiquitous prostitution trade see internet erotic activities as competition and use the law to enforce their territorial rights?

    Do Korean authorities use the on-site terrestrial and not the internet services?

    I find the war on activities of clearly consenting adults while protecting (at least rumored) human trafficking inexplicable.

  • bigmamat

    Korea reserves the right to charge you for crimes committed in other countries even if what you do is legal there….talk about a nanny state.

  • bigmamat

    Sounds like the Kpop industry to me….no wonder Korea is defending the practice…it’s pretty standard practice to “take physical control over a 15 year old” often to include plastic surgery, botox injections, starvation diets, sleep deprivation and long hours of physical practice sessions. This story doesn’t shock me at all.

  • bigmamat

    Does anyone find it hilarious that SK has a law that makes adultery illegal? Geez….

  • bigmamat

    The Kpop industry enters into contract with minors all the time. I’ve often wondered how this works. Do the parents of these kids willingly sign them into slavery how is a contract like that binding? Even with parental consent.

  • A Korean

    No different than the US forbidding bribery even in foreign countries.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    …and better yet still. She held a press conference today:


    16-yr-old Miss Myanmar says she was coaxed to ‘escort’ Korean tycoons

    …Perhaps the most shocking allegation was the young woman’s contention that she was coerced to act as an escort for rich businessmen in the wake of winning the beauty contest.

    “I was told that, in order to generate funds to produce my music album, I need to accept invitations to escort some business tycoons whenever they require my company,” she said.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    US will now retains extra-territorial jurisdiction over American citizens in child sex crimes such as sex with minors.

    Korea, however, seems to retain extra-territorial jurisdiction over Korean citizens in just about everything.

  • bigmamat

    True and I’m not sure if the American law has been challenged since it wouldn’t be politically correct to do so.

  • A Korean

    Another fun news.

    Lee Byung-hyun, the “bad” guy in “the Good, the Bad, and the Weird”, went around drinking with a couple of 20-year olds, and they tried to extort him with cell phone footage of their partying together.

    One of the girls is a member of an “idol” group, the other a model. Lee, a 40-something actor, only recently (last year) married a 30-something actress.

  • bigmamat

    Yuna is right…it’s Jerry Springer Korean style….I love it!

  • bigmamat

    There is a black girl who writes a kpop blog. I can’t think of the name at this moment.

  • bigmamat

    Someone needs to explain to me the “public perception” of Korean sex to what I read about on the internet and what I’m told by people who’ve been there. What I read is that sex work if counted as legit would be about 4% GDP no small sum. Also that all over Korea there are places where you can pay for sex. Yes, it’s illegal but there isn’t much enforcement going on. The only conclusion someone like myself can come to from all of this is Koreans are some of the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

  • Sumo294

    You just made Gihonja.com some extra money. Lots of wonderful and amazing soy milk latte readers of the MH will start quietly using the site.

  • bigmamat

    I just read an article this weekend about a korean entertainment company that farmed one of it’s rookie groups out to some notorious escort service. I think they called it Ten something or other because it caters to the 10% or really rich old farts….evidently the company was a little low on funds…

  • Sinister

    When I was teaching I was sometimes informed of changes to the schedule in advance. It always threw me right off and I never knew what to do with the extra five minutes.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    This is just my guess, but I think affairs between consenting adults sound threatening because the people involved are normal, everyday people. It means someone’s wife is having an affair, and therefore your own wife could be having an affair too.

    With prostitution, I don’t think the customers see sex workers as real people. They don’t view them as daughters, sisters, aunts, or wives, especially when the sex workers are not Korean. The customers never imagine that it could be their own daughter (or wife) who is involved with sex work.

  • redwhitedude

    People who go to other countries and do things thinking they can get away with it ruin it for everybody else.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    True, though these days “affair” has a very implicit meaning. Interesting about the Korean version of Playboy. One of the most striking differences between Japan and Korea is their societal stance toward porn and sexuality. I’m blown away (not literally, unfortunately) when I see sex shops openly displaying their fascinating wares on busy Japanese streets.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Soy latte? Do tell where I can get one! I love me a latte, but lactose gives me the shits.

  • Sumo294

    A male son and an adult mother could have incestuous sex–why regulate it when they are both adults and consenting? Perhaps you are enlightened, wonderful and amazing enough to understand that an adult father could have a consenting sexual relationship with his biological adult daughter. Should these relationships be allowed? The answer is no; adults and consent are not a litmus to what society finds acceptable.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Although you didn’t address me, I’d like to take a shot at it. Incest between close bloodlines is, and should be, outlawed because of the externality that the incestuous relationship could produce: a chromosomally damaged off-spring that would burden society. (In practice, a consensual incestuous relationship only gets prosecuted in the case of off-spring. I suppose that it would be nearly impossible to prosecute without such proof and because of defendants rights’ against self-incrimination.)

    I believe that many U.S. states have recently legalized marriage between first cousins, which used to be illegal, because of chromosomal studies that showed that offspring were not at significantly higher risk for chromosomal defects. I believe the rest of the world, where marriage between first cousins is not uncommon, provided the petri dish.

    (I’d like to see SMS’s, RK’s, DLB’s, BC’s and others’ takes on whether they think incest between “consenting** adults” should be legal and their reasons.

    *************************
    **I read sometime ago that McKenzie Phillips has disavowed as consensual the admitted incestuous relationship she had with Papa John. She claimed to have gone through psychological counseling and learned that incest is never consensual because of the power difference that exists even for adult children and therefore such a relationship is never consensual.

  • bigmamat

    Oh jeez…where did you learn that kindergarten….

  • bigmamat

    Equating adultery with incest is a bit of stretch. Are you sure you aren’t a consultant for the Republican party?

  • bigmamat

    I’m just a little blown away by an adult thinking incest and adultery are the same thing.

  • redwhitedude

    No, you learn that from your parents. And unfortunately there people who are well in the 30s and 40s who pull crap in other countries. Teachers primarily teach academic stuff parents its the other stuff.

  • redwhitedude

    I think that has to do with the idea of proper conduct obnoxiously pushed and drilled into Koreans. It’s as bigmamat said a nanny state.

  • redwhitedude

    “take physical control over a 15 year old”

    Naw, sounds more like sex trafficking.
    But then again Kpop is a unique reason to be trafficked into Korea.

    Reason for trafficking people into Korea, prostitution, and Kpop.

  • redwhitedude

    Is that even shocking at this point?

  • redwhitedude

    “Equating adultery with incest is a bit of stretch”

    Woody allen comes to mind. Legally that was incest.

  • redwhitedude

    Fine, so Ashley Madison isn’t going to be facilitating adultery. So what’s the big deal? People still cheat despite the law in Korea. All the sites that you mentioned could be the competition.

  • bigmamat

    No there isn’t much that shocks me anyway.

  • redwhitedude

    I find this to be one reason why it is such a nanny state. No law is going to eradicate adultery and people have different reasons for engaging in it. Frankly law enforcement resources would be better spent going after criminal cases such as sewol.

  • bigmamat

    I have no idea why anyone would fuck Woody Allen anyway….

  • redwhitedude

    Ajosshis taking advantage of these aspiring youth who may be marginal in talent.

  • redwhitedude

    Don’t know. Ask Soon Yi.

    On the subject of creepy couples. How about Pete Rose and his gf?

  • bigmamat

    I’ve never been to Korea but from what I understand it’s not as though the law is actually being enforced. Along with a few other Korean laws like traffic laws and prostitution….I’m sure rounding up ajeossi for cheating on their wives is somewhere really high on the list….not.

  • redwhitedude

    I wonder what the future is going to hold for such arrangements. These companies are slave masters. These kids are all driven like slaves all the time.

  • bigmamat

    Don’t know who Soon Yi is and don’t care about Pete Rose….Pete Rose isn’t as strange and creepy as Woody Allen he’s just a big slobbering jock.

  • bigmamat

    Oh she you mean Soon Yi the stepdaughter or whatever….I don’t get it….I guess money talks….

  • bigmamat

    Korea just had a new law go into effect this year that’s supposed to limit the hours they can work minors…I think it’s a bit like a lot of Korean laws that might ruffle feathers in the business community….easy to get around….but they were trying to look like they had child welfare in mind even if not really.

  • redwhitedude

    As people mentioned it is only enforced if somebody reports a person for cheating. If they tried to enforce it any other way it would be like a police state like NK with CCTV all over the place keeping an eye on people to see who they meet.

    Traffic laws, you really need public compliance for that. In a way the US has some issues with that as well if the highway speed limit is 55mph but everybody is driving 65mph you can’t possibly nab everybody for speeding. You only nab the worst offenders, those that drive the fastest. However this is not as bad as the issues with traffic in Korea which pales in comparison with countries like China(driving as if there were no lane markers).

  • bigmamat

    There’s some pretty creepy shit that goes on in the kpop industry. Actually in the Korean entertainment industry from what I can gather.

  • redwhitedude

    I wonder if that law is going to be another ill conceived law. Frankly if there is a law to regulate this they should require these companies to invest on the kids education too.

  • redwhitedude

    The line between Kpop and say prostitution is very blurry. Kids aspiring to be like those Kpop idols being taken advantage of. In a way it is like sports agents who are dubious who just tell potential pros what they want to hear not what they are accurately assessed.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    You’re so cute.

    If K-pop had been around and my mother had less prejudice about what she deemed “딴따라” (a derogative term for entertainers), I would have been signed up at age 2 years 10 months instead of learning violin from the Suzuki Violin school on a violin (size 1/16). Made to perform like a monkey aged 6 , I remember, at the Korean embassy in Greece.

    The kids are probably overjoyed themselves.

    Clearly Mozart and Beethoven were minors when their fathers made them practice and go around performing in front of fat bejeweled nobility. At least they produced immortal music.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    And here is another:

    김현중 the younger version of 배용준, under police investigation after a former gf dobbed him in for domestic violence:

    http://media.daum.net/entertain/enews/newsview?newsid=20140902210207249

  • bigmamat

    Yeah I know about that one too…I’m a drama watcher and I visit a lot of sites….I think it’s pretty funny everybody is calling for his head on plate because he’s a celebrity when I’m fairly certain that Korean men get away with beating their wives all the time….

  • bigmamat

    Yeah well Kpop ain’t Mozart….not even close…and this isn’t the 17th century….I know one thing if someone tried to stick a needle in my kids face full of botulism or worked him till all hours of the night without food they’d be paying hell to me…not everybody wants their kid to turn into some dancing, fiddling robot….

  • bigmamat

    Kids don’t have parents to make these decisions for them?

  • bigmamat

    I know American law does require kids in the entertainment industry to devote a certain amount of time to education….of course those laws have only been in affect for about 35 years as well….

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Amen

  • bigmamat

    I remembered this video I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it….Impressive but creepy…the kid on the end looks like a short 45 year old…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSedE5sU3uc

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Wow. Funny and cute. Exactly how it used to be for the Suzuki violin school performances (maybe not quite the synchronized head movement)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js8ag2MUDJA

    Don’t know if it’s the characteristic of the instrument (classical guitar) but it became harder and harder to listen to as it got more out of tune towards the second half.

  • RElgin

    Another disconcerting thing is that the picture of her, on the BBC site, looks a lot like my daughter. This Korean company or group of organizers should be investigated by the prosecutor’s office.

  • redwhitedude

    Or parents are complicit in this because they may be not well informed.

  • wangkon936

    Perhaps they are partially enticed with the music production company paying for room, board and education for their kid from ages 12 to 18?

    It’s like free boarding school, in a sense.

  • redwhitedude

    Don’t forget child labor laws.

  • redwhitedude

    Funny how police are on top of things when it comes to celebrities but they screw up when it comes to things like Sewol. Very good at slapping people with 50,000 won fines for littering but lousy at criminal acts like sewol.

  • redwhitedude

    I’m having trouble picturing how Lee Ha nui who plays the Gayageum and ex miss Korea would have turned out had she stayed as a trainee at YG entertainment and joined 2ne1.

  • wangkon936

    I think all large entertainment industries have an element of sleaze factor. I mean you are dealing in the skills trade of attractive human beings. When that happens, not the best values of humans come out at times.

  • wangkon936

    If she’s really that attractive then you should keep a shot gun and a shovel handy.

  • bigmamat

    Sorry. I feel for you honey, but at least you know how to play an instrument now. I think that’s awesome. I love music but all I can do is attempt to carry a tune….

  • pawikirogii

    all this talk about kpop and beauty pageants reminds me of brian singer and his hot-tub parties. koreans needs to be more subtle. that’s the real issue.

  • pawikirogii

    ps it also reminds me of how america used to be.

  • dlbarch

    No, it actually wasn’t. There was no familiar or legal relationship between Allen and Ms. Previn when they began their relationship in 1991, and nothing prevented them from marrying in 1997.

    BTW, whatever one thinks of the Allen/Previn relationship, they have now been together for 23 years, and married for 17. Not bad for a high profile couple in an entertainment industry where marriages are more frequently counted in months than years, much less decades.

    DLB

  • dlbarch

    Funny thing about incest laws in the States. First, every state has them. Second, only New Jersey lacks any penalties so long as both parties are over 18.

    But, third, surprise, surprise, is that the harshest penalties — i.e., life imprisonment — are on the books in the great states of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee.

    Let me say that again: LIFE imprisonment. (Whether this is actually enforced is less interesting than that state legislatures across the South thought it a good idea in the first place!)

    I’ll let others opine as to why those states should single out incest for such harsh penalties. (Cue banjo scene from “Deliverance.”)

    I think a good libertarian (gasp!) case can be made for abolishing the criminalization of incest for consenting adults over 18.

    DLB

  • bigmamat

    YG is probably one of the better companies since it’s CEO was in a group himself. YG gets a lot of hate for protecting it’s people from scandal and their “artists” have a bit more autonomy than say SM which appears to be a serial abuser of it’s power.

  • bigmamat

    Well that would about the money, money, money….

  • bigmamat

    I think it’s just like Yuna says….some parents are willing to put their children in a precarious situation because they are willing to risk the payoff. Not to mention some of them must be delusional about how beautiful and talented their little offspring are, not unlike the crazy fat ladies in the US who put their little girls in pageants. Toddlers and Tiaras….creepy….

  • bigmamat

    There was more controversy about that this year…which I didn’t follow because I didn’t care….

  • wangkon936

    It’s still weird though.

  • dlbarch

    “The heart wants what it wants.”

    The interesting thing is that if one watches the two of them interact in the half-dozen or so documentaries and biopics that have been made over the last decade about Allen and his work, they actually come across as a very caring and decent couple.

    That won’t stop the chattering class from doing what it will, but it’s still kinda endearing.

    DLB

  • wangkon936

    “… precarious situation” is subjective. You do have some kpop recruits from financially well-to-do families such as CL from 2NE1 (father’s a college professor) or Sunny of SNSD (she is the niece of the founder of SM Entertainment). You probably have more than a fair share who have not come from a well-to-do family background. Perhaps for them a kpop trainee upbringing may not be a worser situation? I guess the point is I wouldn’t limit families to pick this route if they believe it to offer their kid a better chance for a brighter future.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The ajossi is a species all onto himself.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    WHAT? The problem lies in failure to enforce? Joe? have you abandoned your libertarianism?

  • wangkon936

    Plus, let’s not assume that Kpop training is a puppy dog mill just because of hearsay rumors, faulty assumptions or conjectures.

    I think this girl’s testimony is interesting. She is a Korean American girl currently going through Kpop training.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLp6495DMUU&list=UUXgxKu4Gxd3bJIVQMs75xoA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RRk_yf_IIM&list=UUXgxKu4Gxd3bJIVQMs75xoA

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The answer is: it is no one’s business what two adults do, as long as both are adults and both consent. You don’t like incest? Neither do I, but thats tough. If you don’t like it, stop screwing your mother.

  • bigmamat

    I suppose not as long as you don’t mind plastic surgery, starvation diets, sleep deprivation…damn what am I saying…they’re Korean….I guess they don’t mind.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I gave mine above. I think you are beating the panic drum a bit here Joe.

    1. The “externalities to society” argument for incest is even weaker than it is for drugs. Seriously do you believe that if they legalized incest tomorrow, you would have a flood of incest babies in 9 months? I hear this argument used for drugs, too. Its bogus. Incest is such a niche behavior it poses ZERO risk to society in any way, shape or form. I also find the whole argumentation that personal freedoms be curbed for the good of the masses very dangerous and to be avoided for all but the most serious behaviors, and for tha matter, behaviors that HARM actual others, and NOT ones that harm this abstract idea of Society.

    2. What part of “consenting adults” do you people have a problem with?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I agree. Life imprisonment is insane. I wouldn’t even support a 50 dollar citation.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Where they screwed up is in the alleged attempt to sexually traffic a minor.

  • wangkon936

    Investment into your future and delayed gratification.

    I’m sure some of the girls want free plastic surgery to look pretty too.

    Any ways, this gal got free new teeth courtesy of America’s Next Top Model:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71eAAKRsNYc

    It was painful, maybe just as much so as a minor plastic surgery procedure, but no pain no gain.

  • redwhitedude

    Allen was with Mia Farrow. Wasn’t Soon Yi adopted?

  • redwhitedude

    SM is the posterboy of manufactured groups. I heard the same thing about YG, it gives artists more autonomy to create their own stuff.

  • redwhitedude

    Remember when you could bribe cops out of giving you tickets for traffic violations. Oh wait, that was way before our time.

  • redwhitedude

    Actually looking it up, Ms. Previn was adopted by Mia Farrow who was partners with Woody Allen. So unofficially Ms. Previn had somewhat of a stepdaughter arrangement. Still somewhat freaky.

  • bigmamat

    I’ve always avoided the po po whenever possible… and I don’t break the rules….much….just don’t like the cop mentality….I’ve worked with the military most of my life but there’s a huge difference….cops are creepy….

  • bigmamat

    A lot of it has to do with which company you sign with…

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    On paper, it’s illegal for Americans to purchase and use/consume Cuban goods in foreign countries. But I’ve never heard of that ever being enforced. On that note, Havana Club makes the best mojitos! And it often comes in gift sets with a muddler, lime squeezer, and mojito glass.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Allen was never married to Mia Farrow and Soon Yi was never his legal stepdaughter.

  • BSDetector

    Ack… Mr. Koehler what’s this now? I regarded `the Hole as the premium upper crusty somewhat snobby always picturesque k-blog but these subjects are straight out of KoreaBang.

    What’s next? Featurettes of netizens and in-depth 4-chan discussions? `The Hole is no place for indulgence of guilty pleasures!

  • http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.kr/ Horace Jeffery Hodges

    Don’t forget the waterboarding!

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • redwhitedude

    It’s still sounds very bad the way things played out. It’s like a daughter ‘stealing’ her single mom’s boyfriend.

  • brier

    You should have been reading back in ’03 up to a few years ago. The Marmot’s Hole was a very different place back then. This post hints at the blog’s root’s if I am not being too presumptuous.

  • redwhitedude

    Then you got people who really struggle and end up going in some undesirable direction. There are people who end up doing adult movies.

  • redwhitedude

    Hard to tell which one is reputable unless you make it to the big three.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    “It sounds bad” really means “It offends my sensibilities.” Hardly a reason to sick the government on someone.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul: WHAT? The problem lies in failure to enforce?

    You wholly misinterpreted what I wrote and think. The “failure to enforce” problem, as you put it, grows out of legacy laws on the books that society now recognizes as behavior between consenting adults.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The problem with laws is rather nearly always the attempt to enforce them, at all.

  • Sumo294

    Certain bloodlines produce damaged chromosomes. For example, many tribal Africans are strongly predisposed to giving their children sickle cell disease. Do we regulate their sexual relations based on this? Many Jewish families are strongly predisposed to Tay Sachs disease–do we then regulate their sexual relations as well to prevent future children from receiving damaged chromosomes? Korea should outlaw incest and they should continue to outlaw adultery.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Oh my lord, are you turning thick on us, Joe? as in thick libertarian? The whole “power difference” argument may sound great in your social justice seminar, along other goodies like “institutional racism” and “privilege” but adults are adults and they make their own decisions. You don’t get to declare them fully capable of choices in one instance and not so in another. This is an attitude that opens the door to the benevolent care of the State for all these power-disadvantaged adult babies. A yes from an adult is consent. What it really sounds to me that Ms.Phillips is doing is akin to regret rape: I regret having said yes, so I will now claim to have said no, because reasons. Is she a functional adult? If not, then put her away where she cant hurt herself more with irresponsible consenting.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    They should outlaw busybodies trying to outlaw everything.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul:
    1. The “externalities to society” argument for incest is even weaker than it is for drugs.

    I think it’s stronger. I think that the negative externalities of drug use, mostly the ancillary behaviors, get captured in other laws. Objections such as driving while under the influence are already codified.

    2. “…behaviors that HARM ACTUAL OTHER INDIVIDUALS, and NOT ones that harm this abstract idea of ‘Society.;”

    My brand of libertarianism centers around consenting adults can do whatever they want so long as I (as a member of society) don’t have to pay for it. Negative externaiities impose a cost on me (as in society at large), so I have a stake in the behavior.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Besides, she “learned” it because she was told it by the quacks who push the State’s Brave New World campaign to chemically comatize the population. “You can never have true consent because as a sheep you are a non-sovereign Epsilon. Just take your soma and let us care for you.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    How wide-spread do you believe incest to actually be? We are talking tiny numbers here, Joe, with nearly nil cost to anyone.

    Then, Joe, on your second point, you are fighting the wrong war:
    1) The cost for incest is so tiny that you dont even lose a dime a year to “pay for it.”
    2) Your real fight should be to INCREASE freedom, not limit it: oppose taxation and redistribution, not free choice. Name me one way that incest imposes a cost on you. If this is economic, what’s the figure you believe you are burdened with?

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul: Oh my lord, are you turning thick on us, Joe? as in thick libertarian? The whole “power difference” argument may sound great in your social justice seminar….”

    Nope. I wrote that as a preemptive strike so that I wouldn’t get involved in it. Apparently it didn’t work like I had intended.

    BTW, I read Mckenzie Philipps’s quotes on the matter, and I disagree, at least from a legal standpoint. She was an adult at the time and didn’t have a metaphorical gun held to her head.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Nearly every human interaction has “power differences.” If that means that we are not independent agents, then you’re laying the groundwork for the nanny state.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul: How wide-spread do you believe incest to actually be? We are talking tiny numbers here, Joe, with nearly nil cost to anyone.

    What is your threshold for cost? An individual case of chromsomal damaged offspring imposes more cost on society than a single instance of virtually any state handout.

    “1. The cost for incest is so tiny that you dont even lose a dime a year to ‘pay for it.'”

    I can’t believe you’re, as in YOU, are making that as an argument.

    “2. Your real fight should be to INCREASE freedom, not limit it:”

    My argument is that the only place a government has in making laws or restrincting freedoms are in cases where negative externalities exist.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    I agree; therefore, that’s not my argument.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    I thought so too. I didn’t want to just dismiss without showing a difference.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    1. I reject the idea that there is a “cost.” Once you accept that idea, you accept the intrusion of the State into lives to “control costs.”

    2. I am making the argument that objectively speaking, even if there is a cost to it, it is nearly so insignificant as to approach nothing. My own calculus tells me that I am not about to sell my beliefs in freedom out for a dime.

    3. And I am saying negative externalities here are nearly nil. But more importantly, we should discriminate between externalities from actions that harm others and ones that do not. Pollution into waters harms my property rights. Incest does not; in the case of incest what does harm my property rights is the GUBMENT taking my money to pay for whatever results from it. I hope you see the distinction. OR, in the case of water pollution, there would be an externality were we to get rid of the government. All extarnalities disappear in the case of incest after a revolution that overthrows the government. Which tells me that the real externality in the former case is, in fact, from government.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    We should discuss this over a beer because its become difficult to follow due to the fragmentation of our discussion.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul: “1. I reject the idea that there is a “cost.” Once you accept that idea, you accept the intrusion of the State into lives to ‘control costs.;”

    Of course, there is a cost: the cost to society for the care of the offspring.

    “…in the case of incest what does harm my property rights is the GUBMENT taking my money to pay for whatever results from it. I hope you see the distinction.”

    I clearly see the distinction, and that’s what I’m writing about. You have a property right to your money.

    My point is that I see the use of the law to protect my property rights and those of society as a whole. The original point was in distinguishing from adultery. A spouse might have an interest, but I don’t. The aggrieved spouse has other recourse.

  • wangkon936

    “The Marmot’s Hole was a very different place back then.”

    You mean a virtual bar/toilet bowl for pissy angry expats who had all manners of complaints (real, imagined or otherwise) regarding the ROK?

    The comments section back then was completely unviewable to anything less than Dave’s ESL crowd.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Care of offspring: You believe “society” has the obligation? Furthermore, you don’t oppose this very idea? And why can’t the two parents take care of their offspring?

    Your property isn’t being protected in the case of incest. It is being taken away.

    Don’t women get pregnant during adultery? Suppose such a child is born. Does that child differ in any substantial or essential way from the child born to an incestual relationship? Both “have to be cared for,” do they not, if the mother doesn’t wish to keep it?

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    That’s demented.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    SalarymaninSeoul: “Care of offspring: You believe “society” has the obligation? Furthermore, you don’t oppose this very idea?

    In this case what I believe is irrelevant. Society has taken the responsibility. If you want to rewrite those laws (and yes, I know that you do), then fine, but that’s not reality. The fact is that society bears the cost.

    And why can’t the two parents take care of their offspring?

    Embedded in this question is the more interesting point. What if, as in the case of McKenzie and John Phillips, the parents are wealthy enough to care for the offspring? Does that confer on them the right to consent to incest?

    In that case you are conferring a right on the wealthy, which sounds more like a privilege. (Before anyone wants to debate whether vacationing on a boat with two beach blondes in the Caribbean is a privilege to the rich or some such other analogy, please thinks your analogy through.)

  • wangkon936

    Honestly? I couldn’t really wade into TMH comments section until about 2008 (or 2009?) when the volume of vitriolic comments moderated slightly.

    Now, the actual posts have always been strong, with sometimes welcomed diversions into boob pics and what not.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I am not conferring a privilege, but simply a responsibility: take care of your own damn kid. Rich, or poor. This is the case for all kids. Don’t tilt at windmills. There shouldnt be a “need to contest” anything because the State has no business taking kids from parents, normal or incestual. And no, “society” did not elect anything. Society isnt an agent.

  • Pomponius

    It is just possible your ranting about how bad Marmot’s Hole was back then, is not helping the cause of Marmot’s Hole at all now.

    Most of the best commenters here are all gone – yes including a few of the extremes you are mentioning. I imagine a lot of old timers in Korea, who have a lot to say and are good commenters, do not like what this blog has become and you certainly are not their spokesman.

  • WMunny

    Now THIS is the kind of blog post I had been missing!

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Why he was out drinking when he has Lee Min Jung at home is beyond me.

  • wangkon936

    I don’t think I ever claimed to be anybody’s spokesman.

  • Pomponius

    Well, you do tend to speak that way, when you call the people who used to comment on this blog pissy angry expats. You seem to take it for granted everyone agrees with you.

    But you must be personally happy that your old nemeses Sperwer and Seouldout no longer post here. Also by the lack of commenters such as Dogbert, Slim and many others. Only in your eyes, and a few obvious others, could this blog be considered so much better than the past.

  • dlbarch

    Ah, I miss those days! MH definitely used to be a whole lot more rough and tumble even just a few years ago. It used to be THE place where one could get their daily dose of Korean vitriol and bile!

    The odd thing is that MH posts still routinely get 100+ comments, but the fire is just not there anymore. Something’s definitely missing.

    DLB

  • wangkon936

    I think the most virulent commenters got old or just got out of Korea (and don’t have any current connections to Korea) so their info got old.

    My active participation in this blog started at around the time when the first of those old timers started to calm down and/or leave.

    There is a part of me that would like to say that things have gotten easier for expats in Korea and that the place has become a more pleasant place for people to live in and navigate, so the underlying rationale for the snark is declining (and not self replicating). Now, this is based on a completely unscientific examination of youtube videos (very active expat youtube environment) and hearsay info from Koreans who have moved to or come visit the U.S.

  • wangkon936

    Hummm… I don’t think I never said it was better. Different, yes. Less of a headache, yes.

    Regarding some of the old timers missing I would imagine that some of them left Korea and just got disinterested in Korea. Some of them may have gotten older and wiser. One of them, the colorful NetizenKim for example, got married and now has kids.

    TheKorean was a guest blogger for awhile, but the battles for him in the comments section got trite and he has moved on to greener pastures (Time magazine, WSJ, the WaPo and several ghost writer gigs I cannot elaborate on).

    Sperwer and I didn’t always fight. I heard off line that he’s a good chap in the real world and I’m sure he would be an okay guy to have a beer with on a sunny afternoon. I found it strange that when he got frustrated he threatened to start a fist fight. Don’t know how you have a fist fight over the internet. Any ways, bit of an odd “roid rage” streak in that guy. Wherever the salty dog is I wish him well.

    Seouldout was a strange fellow. I got the impression that he didn’t like Korea and certainly didn’t think much of the Koreans who surrounded him. I would hazard to guess that he’s out of country now. Hey, whatever makes you happy.

    “You seem to take it for granted everyone agrees with you.”

    I don’t. If you think so then that’s on you.

    “Well, you do tend to speak that way, when you call the people who used to comment on this blog pissy angry expats.”

    I few years on this blog’s comment section and you learn bad habits. I try to control it despite my best efforts. It’s like being in an abusive relationship for a few years. You tend to snap like the person you broke-up with… often unconsciously.

  • wangkon936

    “It used to be THE place where one could get their daily dose of Korean vitriol and bile!”

    Mr. DLB sir,

    I guess some “viriol and bile” is okay to keep a blog lively and fresh, but too much can really get away from one important thing and that’s learning. When a comment section gets overloaded with that crap, everyone’s mind shuts down, ideas are shot down and everyone is more focused on defending their intellectual fiefdoms rather than exchanging viable ideas.

    Maybe some people get on blogs of this time to learn and interact rather than fling shit about how much they know about such and such and yell at each other about how wrong the other person is.

    IMHO Korea is a difficult place to understand. It’s a difficult place to predict too. Well, duh! It’s a different culture that developed literally on the other side of the world and didn’t have Judeo-Christianity (for most of its history), Greek philosophy, Roman legal structure, English common law, etc. to marinate under for hundreds of years. Because of this they don’t have the luxury to solve things or approach things from your cultural window of experience. They are going to approach problems differently. They are going to prioritize problems differently too.

    Everyone tries to interpret a foreign country from the basis of their own culture. Trying to do that is futile IMHO. That’s why there’s probably so much angry frustration. Furthermore, nobody ever get’s it right in the long-term. So, year after year they will 1) predict that North Korea will collapse 2) the Koreans will be absorbed by China 3) South Korea will economically collapse 4) South Korea will economically stagnate 5) South Korea’s corruption will make it as inefficient as a South American banana republic 6) Korea’s population is crap and will never be attractive to other nations 7) Korea should just get over Japan, etc. However year after year none of these things ever happen. In the long-term the standard prediction of Korea is usually wrong. Why? Because, as I said before, there is too much talking and confirming of biases and not enough listening and learning.

    Well, North Korea has lasted far longer than anybody predicted. South Korea has materially developed far faster than anyone has predicted. China hasn’t absorbed the peninsula despite people on this blog being “pretty sure it’s gonna happen” since 2003 (11 years ago).

    People have a lot of opinions on the Koreas but very few people have the knowledge base to make informed commentary. People are too busy confirming their own biases to really sit down and think about what really makes the place tick. To understand Korea requires some people to unlearn what they have learned previously. A lot of people don’t want to do that and thus their mind revolts, frustration grinds at the gears and too many “pissy” commentary in the Korean blogsphere is the stinky (and noisy) result.

    Any ways, that’s my two cents.

  • dlbarch

    Since that’s a thoughtful “two cents,” it warrants a reply.

    First, I absolutely agree that a lot — and way too much — of the commentary on Korea is of the “pissy” variety, and I have always been first in line to declare that if one really doesn’t like Korea, then one should leave. Full stop.

    That said, a lot of current and former expats who’ve actually spent time on the ground in Korea offer a lot of insight based on first hand experience in Korea that is woefully lacking in the States, where one tends to see a more romanticized version of Korea, including, if not especially, from the kyopo crowd (including, sad to say, some of my own friends, for whom criticism of any kind about anything Korean is verboten).

    I think this familiarity with Korea by current and former expats is an intellectual challenge for a lot of kyopos, who by and large grew up surrounded by their American (or Canadians, or whoever) classmates who did not know a lick about Korea. Those days are over, and now, especially on fora like MH, one is confronted with non-Koreans who have actually lived, studied, and worked in Korea, sometimes for decades, and who actually know MORE about the country (and speak better Korean) than their kyopo counterparts in the States.

    I think the bitch and complain crowd can pretty much go to hell, but the irony is that a lot of the expat criticism here on MH mirrors that expressed by Koreans, in Korea, every day. The fact is that a LOT of Koreans also don’t like a LOT of aspects of their own country very much, which explains why so many bail on the place year after year.

    In short, there is nothing on MH that one won’t find on any Naver chat board by Koreans themselves. The fact that the complaining comes from expats might be unpalatable, but it’s hardly unique to the expat crowd.

    DLB

  • wangkon936

    Okay Mr. Barch. I hear ya, but letmme ask you a question. Do you think that having first generation Jewish parents, going to Hebrew school on weekends, going to meet a bunch of Jewish people every Saturday, eating the food most days, etc., do you think that would help you understand Israel a little bit more than the average ‘Murican?

    I wonder if you ran into a blog with ‘Murican, Canadian, Australian, etc. expats in Israel who drone on and on about how terrible, backwards, shitty, etc. that Israel is (complaining about the kibbutzs, snotty Jewish kids in the classes they have to teach, the conservative old people in Tel Aviv, the desire of Israeli women to prefer Jewish husbands, etc.) how you would react in the comments section. I wish I could see you walk a proverbial mile in those moccasins.

  • dlbarch

    Well, WK, I’ve already said I agree with you on the subject of what you called “pissy” expat complaints, so I don’t really know what more you’re looking for from me.

    But as for your comparison of growing up Korean with, presumably, growing up Jewish, I’d say that, no, growing up Jewish in America does not offer any unique advantage to understanding what makes Israel tick. In fact, most of my Jewish friends were not born in Israel, did not grow up in Israel, did not get educated in Israel or go to university in Israel, did not live or work in Israel, and sure as hell never served their mandatory stint — for men AND women — in the IDF.

    Sound familiar?

    So, yeah, expat bitching and complaining about Korea is tiring, but so too is kyopo cheerleading and offering apologia about a country with which they have very little, if any, actual day-to-day connection.

    And I mean no offense when I say that, to be brutally honest, Korea’s successes are not kyopo successes, and its failures are not kyopo failures. Most kyopos simply have to acknowledge — even if just to themselves late at night when the room is dark — that the reason they’re kyopos to begin with is because their parents bailed on the country back when Korea was still developing and, arguably, when it needed them most.

    (BTW, in fairness, this is hardly limited to Korea. This IS the immigrant experience.)

    What I will say is that Korea is a pretty fucking awesome country, and the reason a lot of foreigners come to Korea to study and work and live (and stay and stay and stay and stay) is because the place is worthy of attention.

    And believe me, WK, while I can’t speak for all expats, if you knew my background you’d know that people like me don’t go to a place like Korea unless the country has something really important to offer.

    DLB

  • dogbertt

    I’ve never had an issue with wangkon936.

  • wangkon936

    “…Korea’s successes are not kyopo successes, and its failures are not kyopo failures.”

    I can’t speak for others, but that’s not an interest or concern with me. I’m like you. I want to learn about the country.

    “… the reason they’re kyopos to begin with is because their parents bailed on the country back when Korea was still developing and, arguably, when it needed them most.”

    Uh, “bailing” is harsh a very black and white way of looking at it. Very few, if any, Koreans woke up in the 70’s and 80’s saying they are leaving the country to betray it. Many that left were not really the ones that could have contributed the most to the country. Often times it’s the ones who couldn’t make it in their native country. They didn’t have the education or the family background, thus they came to another place to try their luck. For the most part it wasn’t the doctors, engineers and rocket scientists of Korea that jumped on a plane to “become rich” in America. Many Koreans who came in the 90’s were given early retirement (in their early 50’s) and tried their luck in the US because no one would hire them in Korea. Let’s just say that the Korean American community has very few SKY university degrees. Like immigrants everywhere that end up in the US, they were not labeled as the best, brightest and most useful for their native country.

    Since we are being honest here, I’ll be honest too. I think the much of the commentary from expats who live in Korea isn’t very good. As I’ve explained before, it’s often wrong, particularly in the long-term. Many times I think some expats who stay in Korea the longest just entrench their ideology. They don’t grow or expand. Now, the best commentary I hear from Westerners are people like Lankov, Michael Breen, Aidan Foster-Carter, Daniel Tudor, Gari Ledyard, etc. The vast majority of expats in Korea do not analyze Korea like they do.

    Additionally, I think you are stereotyping a lot of gyopos. Yes, there are the cheerleaders. However, how many of my comments (or theirs, for that matter) openly “cheer” Korea? I can’t speak for them, but for me I don’t think I do a lot of cheering. I like to learn. On this blog I show my desire to learn about Korea and offer counter points, usually based on good research. On other blogs, I show my desire to learn whatever the subject matter of the blog is, be it military history, economics or politics. Sometimes the commentary is so one sided, that it inhibits my ability to learn because I don’t want to be in a forum where everyone is too busy confirming their own biases. Look at TheKorean’s blog. How many of his posts are openly “cheering” Korea? Very few, if any. His format is to take questions from his readers and do his best to answer them. Sometimes he will consult with people he knows in Korea to do so.

    In terms of blogs, I like Roboseyo’s blog quite a bit. He’s honest, sometimes brutally so. He also heavily criticizes much of the erroneous analysis by expats. I also like waegukin.com and Seoul Searching. Their level of awareness and understanding is very good. Way above what the norm is.

    You don’t seem to believe this, but I think educated and well informed gyopos can add a tremendous amount of insight and knowledge to understanding Korea better. Take Eunice Hong’s book on the Korean Wave. Many reviewers (if you have looked on Amazon.com) says it’s the best book written on the topic ever. To discuss the topic, she addresses her upbringing and cultural background to HELP EXPLAIN why the Korean Wave is organized the way it is. There will be more gyopos writing books on Korea soon since many of us are just entering our prime intellectual expository ages (30’s and 40’s). Sometimes you have to live through a miniature Confucian kingdom before you understand what you are going through. An educated and linguistically informed gyopo can much more easily integrate into Korean society than a typical non-gyopo expat. And their ability to quickly integrate will have very little to do with how they look. That matters for little. I’ve met many an adoptee Korean who felt like a fish out of water in Korea and was oil to Korea’s water when they tried to fit it.

    Wow, this is getting long. Good night.

  • wangkon936
  • Sumo294

    Korean-Americans have had a tremendous impact on Korea. Many of them acted as bridges–helping out FOB Koreans adjust to college in the States. Korean-Americans initially sacrificed a lot in sending money back home to help out their family members. They helped to create the knowledge infrastructure that allows ideas to bounce back and forth to Seoul. Many of the best translators working right now are Korean-American. Their contributions are quiet because in Korean society–Korean Americans are still considered part of Korea. For example–the guy who made Pizza Hut ubiquitous in Korea lived a long time in Texas. His professional managerial abilities with his native like understanding of Korea gave Pizza Hut a leg up in the early stages of the pizza wars. There are no articles on him because he was never considered to be foreign in the eyes of Korean society.

  • Sumo294

    I may have reacted a tad to aggressively to a post of yours. Please excuse my bad manners to you. I noticed you enjoy themed music. Perhaps you might have overlooked this piece. Hope you enjoy it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWdrtR8qXYs

  • wangkon936

    Forgot to mention this guy:

    http://seoulistic.com/korean-culture/when-and-how-to-bow-in-korea/

    A millennial gyopo from NYC that a lot of expat sites link to as a place to learn the “nuances” of Korean culture. His site has become so popular that he’s making money off it.

    Rob linked to his site too:

    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2012/07/16/twitter-updates-for-2012-07-16/

    Our upbringing (particularly if it’s a first generation environment) gives us a good base to quickly get to speed on Korea. Some gyopos don’t do a good job at it, but some do.

  • cardigan stewz

    There’s far less irrational anti-Americanism in Korea today than there was ten years ago.

  • cardigan stewz

    “Everyone tries to interpret a foreign country from the basis of their own culture.”

    I think it’s more to do with their education than their culture.

  • cardigan stewz

    Complaints about squat toilets and shitty driving were never a serious issue. The problem is the Korean education system regarding topics such as, for example; human slavery; the history of slavery in the world; slavery in Korea; the history of the Atlantic slave trade and how it was developed; The USA and its role in the Atlantic slave trade; etc…