How do you get Korean rightwingers to protest in front of the US embassy?

By having the US embassy support the Korean Queer Festival, that’s how!

The Gidok Ilbo (“Christian Times”) reports that the Korean Citizens’ Alliance for a Healthy Society held a protest in front of the US embassy on Saturday to protest the support the embassy had given to the Queer Festival (HT to Kim Tong-hyung).

In a statement, the group said they could not help but be dumbstruck that the US embassy, crying about human rights for sexual minorities, would participate in the Queer Festival at a time when Koreans were exercising prudence in word and action as the nation overcomes deep wounds and pain.

(Marmot’s Note: Which is perfectly understandable, BTW, because as we all know, it was really the gays that sank the Sewol.)

According to the report, the US embassy set up a booth at the Queer Festival and provided active support for the car parade and other festival events.

The group asked, “The United States is causing many problems as it pursues pro-gay policies like the recent expansion of same-sex marriage legalization, but is it now trying to expand homosexuality in not just the United States, but Korea, too?” They said homosexuality was the main culprit in the occurrence of AIDS, and that homosexuals were at high risk of getting AIDS. They that the number of patients who contracted AIDS due to homosexual activity in Korea is rising like the United States, and asked if the United States was trying to export AIDS, too, to Korea through its gay diplomacy.

The group also said homosexuality was causing many tensions in Korean society. With homosexuals pressuring to even permit homosexuality in the military, there was great tension between the majority of Koreans and homosexuals, they said, and criticized the United States for contributing to even greater tension by supporting homosexuals.

And in language that should make any progressive opponent of Western cultural imperialism proud, the group said the situation in Korea was very different from that of America, and that if the United States is a true partner of Korea, it must respect Korean culture. It called on the United States to immediately cease its policies that are causing social tension by exporting homosexuality to Korea. It also called on the US embassy to stop its support for the Queer Festival and demanded that President Obama apologize to Korea for the US embassy’s high-handedness.

Meanwhile, the Homosexual Issue Countermeasures Committee (or however they translate their name) said there were reports that the US, French and German embassies had set up booths at the Queer Festival, and the overseas trend to recognize homosexuality was growing. It also said there should be strong protests that said embassies were engaging in activities the Korean people did not want.

Feel free to read Christian Today’s account of the Queer Festival here. Apparently some Christian/conservative groups clashed with festival-goers and were arrested for their efforts (see also here).

PS: Just out of curiosity, did the embassy actually give official support to the Korea Queer Festival?

UPDATE: First queer festivals. Then Spider Man with a boner. This nation is truly going in the crapper.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “With homosexuals pressuring to even permit homosexuality in the military…”

    From a few candid conversations I’ve had, it sounds like more of a requirement for some soldiers, depending on their seniors.

  • http://thekoreanforeigner.blogspot.kr/ John Lee

    How could it be anything but blatantly obvious that the imperial Western gay agenda threatens to destroy the purity of the Korean people, none of whom has ever been gay before the arrival of White Devils?!

  • dlbarch

    All citizens are assured of human worth and dignity and have the right to pursue happiness. It is the duty of the State to confirm and guarantee the fundamental and inviolable human rights of individuals.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 10

    All citizens are equal before the law.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 11(1)

    All citizens enjoy personal liberty.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 12(1)

    The privacy of no citizen may be infringed.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 17

    All citizens enjoy the freedom of conscience.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 19

    All citizens are entitled to a life worthy of human beings.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 34(1)

    Freedoms and rights of citizens may not be neglected on the grounds that they are not enumerated in the Constitution.

    — Korean Constitution, Chapter II, Article 37(1)

    And while we’re at it, let me go on record as affirming that “gay” rights are human rights, and that if the U.S. Embassy did anything to promote this laudable goal, then that’s a pretty righteous thing to have done.

    And finally, as for this anti-American KCAHS outfit, they can kiss my ass.

    DLB

  • redwhitedude

    “right to pursue happiness.”

    A-ha! The reason why prostitution is the way it is in Korea.

  • redwhitedude

    You sound like you belong in Korean sentry. Maybe you need to hangout there instead of here.

  • redwhitedude

    “They said
    homosexuality was the main culprit in the occurrence of AIDS, and that
    homosexuals were at high risk of getting AIDS.”

    Looks like somebody is getting nostalgic of the 80s. I’m confused who is protesting? Right wingers or some evangelical fringe christian cult?

  • http://jushinjok.blogspot.com JinJoo

    RWD, Chinese 50 cents party disguise as Koreans and Japanese/ JeonlaDo and GeongSangDo people/ man and woman….. and play one against the other (play both sides against the middle) on Korean forums and Japanese forums.

  • Aja Aja

    It’s virtually the same political groups of people who are holding up the important anti-discrimination bill in the assembly. Because the proposed anti-discrimination against race, sex, and religion, also bill includes the protection for homosexuality, and these religious groups won’t sign any bills that backs homosexual rights.

  • TheGirl FromIpanema

    You off your meds?

  • TheGirl FromIpanema

    There’s a difference?

  • redwhitedude

    Yeah, that’s another reason to get him to Korean sentry.

  • redwhitedude

    Yup. The latter is more likely to dam you to hell.

  • Wedge1

    I’ve heard the same.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    I think he was being sarcastic.

  • redwhitedude

    Not familiar with John Lee. But then when I glance at Korean sentry I see similar sounding rants.

  • http://jushinjok.blogspot.com JinJoo

    My blog’s traffic sources showed there were some visitors via Korean Sentry, so I visited KS site. Apart from some 국뽕 (I noticed that there were a couple of radicals), I found many of their information (especially wrt Korean history) useful.

  • http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.kr/ Horace Jeffery Hodges

    I think so, too, Robert. John Lee has previously spoken up for racial and gender equality.

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • Seoulgoodman

    “…at a time when Koreans were exercising prudence in word and action as the
    nation overcomes deep wounds and pain.” Are they fucking kidding? They are really playing than angle?

  • http://thekoreanforeigner.blogspot.kr/ John Lee

    I was being sarcastic. My mistake for failing to insert “/sarcasm” at the end of my post.

  • http://thekoreanforeigner.blogspot.kr/ John Lee

    No. Merely failed to add “/sarcasm” at the end of my post.

  • bumfromkorea
  • bumfromkorea

    That would most certainly violate Article 34(1)…

  • bumfromkorea

    Poe’s law in full effect.

  • redwhitedude

    But they do tend to give heavy handed history lessons.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Can’t argue with the facts!

    Though I’d like to hear a specific definition of the privacy described in Chapter II, Article 17. I guess it doesn’t apply to medical records or personal contact information 😉

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Oh wait, I’m not a citizen. Perhaps that’s why I’m entitled to SMS advertisements for predatory loans and online gambling.

  • bigmamat

    How is it that people cannot recognize sarcasm when they see it? Are you people deliberately being obtuse?

  • bigmamat

    Don’t even bother. This site is not free of dumb shit believe me.

  • A Korean

    No shit.

  • A Korean

    There are too damn many trolls that you can’t tell who’s serious and what.

    What’s wrong with you today, bad coffee or something?

  • bigmamat

    Don’t feel to bad. Even if they couldn’t get their hands on your medical records they’d at least come up with a way to collect your DNA and your piss.

  • http://www.scroozle.com/ Zackary Downey

    Someone needs to watch 왕의 남자 again. Korea was outputting LGBT-friendly entertainment long before the US started legalizing same-sex marriage.

  • A Korean

    I wish these people, be they lefty or jesus freaks, stop staging productions at the US embassy. Why don’t they go to the national assembly instead if they want shit changed?

  • RElgin

    Protestant religious cults (so called “churches”) are the 300-pound gorilla in the room; their political clout is big and their influence is toxic to Korean society and government and I’m not even remotely considering their reactionary policies towards the gay community.
    Consider the reign of LMB for an example of mild Jesus-nut flavor mixed with plain old bad business practices.

  • bigmamat

    Why shouldn’t they it worked for everyone in the U.S….all you have to do is holler 9/11.

  • bigmamat

    No but I know John Lee. He’s not trolling.

  • bigmamat

    Because blaming the foreigner is easy, the ground work has already been laid. All they have to do now is pile on.

  • bigmamat

    I didn’t know this was a Kpop site.

  • bigmamat

    You must be American where you can’t tell the difference between a religious nut job and Republican.

  • redwhitedude

    “Freedoms and rights of citizens may not be neglected on the grounds that they are not enumerated in the constitution”

    If somebody thinks they have a right to have fun with prostitutes that can’t be violated just because it isn’t mentioned in the constitution?

  • redwhitedude

    This place may be populated with ajosshis who are closet K pop fans.

  • A Korean

    I don’t know about that. Koreans go at each other’s throat plenty.

    I can understand if they were protesting some USFK GIs running amuk or something.

  • redwhitedude

    Spider man with a boner?

    Reminds me of this scene in Naked gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJZSiYCr1gE

    Somebody needs to lighten up.

  • A Korean

    Pawi should cook up some photo works ridiculing the jesus freaks.

  • redwhitedude

    What’s the difference between republicans and democrats?

  • redwhitedude

    Heck no!

  • A Korean

    Marmot’s Hole Paging Pawi!
    Marmot’s Hole Paging Pawi!

  • Dokdoforever

    Conservative Protestant groups are hypocrites to claim that ‘protecting Korea’s unique culture’ is grounds to discriminate against gays. Like gay rights, Christianity is a Western import to Korea. If they’re so concerned about Korean cultural traditions maybe they shouldn’t have taken up a religion with origins in the West.

    In fact, as an observer, I’d bet that traditional Korean culture, particularly Confucianism and its emphasis on separating the genders, provides a lot more space for closeted gays to do their thing than in the West. Until fairly recently, it was fairly common for same sex couples to hold hands while walking down the street, or to put their hands on other’s legs in ways that Westerners would find uncomfortable. Two Korean male friends do a lot of things Westerners might find kind of suspicious, like going to movies and coffee shops together.
    When I first arrived in Korea in the early 90s, I encountered two very ‘out’ western English teachers, whose orientation was very obvious to all the Westerners. The Korean staff and students, though, didn’t have a clue. But appearances really matter in this society, and the Conservative Values Society views a gay parade as a slap in the face.

    The conservative Protestants are certainly welcome to their opinion, but as one of many minority groups in this country, alongside Buddhists, Catholics, and other religious and philosophical groups, they are in no position to hoist their moral or ethical values onto any one else.

  • redwhitedude

    Well the official catholic line is no to gay relationship and marriage eventhough the current pope has come across as being more conciliatory towards gays, however certain evangelical Christians make stupid show out of it.

  • redwhitedude

    Only Robert can page like that since he owns marmot’s hole.

  • bigmamat

    Fundy Christian whack jobs. I know you can read.

  • bigmamat

    I didn’t think ajosshis even tried to hide their affection for girl groups. I kinda figured all the butt dancing was for the male gaze.

  • Sumo294

    There were gay Koreans–but there was no gay culture. The gay culture is something new.

  • redwhitedude

    Whacky leftist and whacky rightist. What’s the difference? They both claim they represent the people.

  • redwhitedude

    Not to mention their instinct to pull out wads of 10000 won bills wave it at them and demand lap dances. Oh wait! Are you one of them?

  • Sumo294

    Gay people are humans first–so all rights granted to human beings protect them. For example–murder is a crime, striking someone in the street is a crime these laws protect both the gay man and the straight man. Gay people existed in Korea long before the so called ‘gay rights’ culture came to Korea. What you advocate is the protection of gay culture–something you wish to impose on Koreans and rob Koreans of their intrinsic right to self determination as a people of to choose their culture and that culture does not include white liberals from America. This is a dialogue between gay Koreans and their fellow community–their community being their brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers who have far more compassion and understanding on them then you condescending counter culture ilk think Koreans are capable of.

  • redwhitedude

    It’s pretty underground stuff if you are talking about gays in Korea.

  • redwhitedude

    I think he’s saying. “Beat yourself up and get off our back”

  • redwhitedude

    I’m not familiar with his postings so I couldn’t tell.

  • bigmamat

    There’s a big difference. Whacky lefties aren’t trying to limit my access to abortion and contraception. Whacky lefties aren’t trying to teach creationism in schools, Whacky lefties aren’t trying to get Bible study back in schools, or post the 10 commandments in the courthouse. They show up at dead soldiers funerals with their God Hates Fags signs. Whacky fundies think women shouldn’t vote, gays should reevaluate their lifestyle choice and blacks should keep their place.

    Whacky lefties take pictures of pig farms. They steal monkeys out of research facilities. They march in gay pride parades when they aren’t even gay. They don’t wash their hair with shampoo for 3 years. They eat lots of kale. You tell me which group I’m supposed to think are scarier.

  • bigmamat

    He has his own blog, The Korean Foreigner. He’s not a racist, misogynist, homophobe or a troll. He is a fanatic. His church is the “Chicago School”. His prophets are Adam Smith and Milton Friedman. He can take the most mundane everyday news and turn it into a lesson in the virtues of unfettered free market capitalism. He’s a good little “Freemarketeer”. He very rarely writes anything even social commentary that he can’t tie back to his free market ideology. He’s an atheist in the classical sense and socially liberal. I know thats hard for an American since conservative economic theory has been in bed with conservative social mores for about 40 years now.

  • bumfromkorea

    I myself am very interested to see how the Korean society and pop culture will react when homosexuality and gay rights become more prominent/accepted. What would be considered “gay” in Korea? Musicals, pastel clothing, cutesy things, etc. have already been consumed or partially consumed by the mainstream masculine culture – what would be the “gay culture” over there? Would there even be one?

  • Sumo294

    If such a thing as “gay rights” exist then the opposite must also exist. Koreans will choose its path–not Americans–Koreans made a choice on democracy and as a democracy–its citizens will choose its dialogue on gay culture. IF you say that one should not impose their beliefs on a people–then allow Koreans to decide this issue.

  • Sumo294

    Leave him alone–this issue is a delicate issue for Korean Americans.

  • redwhitedude

    He is entitled to his views as long as he doesn’t troll.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Korea is part of a larger international community, and signatory to the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. It does not exist in a bubble, nor does its government always refrain from attempting to influence others. Were the US Embassy advocating, say, for the rights of women or children, I doubt you would have gotten on your high horse. http://un.mofa.go.kr/english/am/un/bilateral/policy/rights/index.jsp

  • bigmamat

    The point is there has always been a gay culture it’s just out in the open more now.

  • redwhitedude

    Both have their own selfish agendas. Issues such as abortion should be better handled away from politics within personal sense of morality. Same goes with Bible study is schools and all other issues.

  • pawikirogii

    such short notice, a korean, but here you go!

  • redwhitedude

    BTW I would like to say that these evangelicals christians are being very gay.

  • redwhitedude

    Aaarrrgghhhh! My eyes! I can’t see!

  • Luke Doyle

    I’m not familiar with the guy (John Lee) but even I can tell he’s being sarcastic. C’mon – It’s not that hard!

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Tell that to gay Koreans who frequent expat hangouts because they can be open about their sexuality without feeling threatened or uncomfortable.

    That said, the younger generation in Korea is increasingly gay-friendly and open-minded!

  • Dan Strickland

    Disagree. The protestors are largely speaking from their base as conservative Christians, which is not a part of traditional Korean culture. There is strong irony in the protests by Christians against Westerners imposing their culture.

  • BSDetector

    What’s wrong with you people?! The gays are spreading AIDS to our children, you can get it from them just by being in the same room. Only through Christ will you…
    …oh hold on….
    I’ve just been told this isn’t the year 1981, that “culture” when used in this context is just a trick to subjugate social evolution, the fallacy of religion is eroding exponentially, and that these people actually are the ones who should apologize to Korea for misrepresenting… pretty much everything they represented as.

  • bumfromkorea

    http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/list.nhn?titleId=25735&page=18

    This was an interesting take of how the younger generation is reacting to the increasingly visible issue of homosexuality in Korean society. I found the honesty and realism (main character never quite letting go of his homophobia, for example) very refreshing.

  • bigmamat

    Yeah I know…I’m the one that said he was being sarcastic in the first place.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Korea will realize the same thing that the West is (hopefully) realizing – that there is no such thing as gay culture. Gay people have the same culture as straight people. Gay Koreans like galbi, soju, Kim Gwang Suk, Kim Yuna, Lotte Giants, Haeundae Beach, noraebang, and shopping at Emart.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    What you just described is what leftists want – abortion, religion, and sexuality out of politics.

  • RElgin

    Okay, you made me laugh. Good job.

  • bigmamat

    Thank you…I get a little tired of trying to break though the density.

  • bigmamat
  • redwhitedude

    No what leftist one is to enshrine those things politically same with the rightist. Rightist want to ban it while leftist want to be explicit about abortion in their political agenda.

  • redwhitedude

    Stop turning this into political hot potato.

  • Sumo294

    You say women rights and children’ rights when both groups are part of society. That somehow laws regulating the striking of a women or child is not part of law. No matter what your status or category–it boils down to the individual and society. Do we have laws that treat a person with justice, kindness and ethical consideration. Laws that protect the individual extend to all groups, subgroups and calling.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Do straight Koreans fear losing their job because of their sexuality? That’s something many gay Koreans worry about. Do straight people fear being assaulted because of their sexuality? Again, something gay people have to worry about.

    Gay people don’t want special rights or privileges. They just want the same consideration as everyone else. They just want to be themselves without having to worry about getting fired, assaulted, harassed, etc. for something that is nobody’s business but their own.

  • bigmamat

    I thought the thread was about politicizing being gay….

  • redwhitedude

    So there are gays. What’s the big deal about it? Is there a need to politicize it?

  • bigmamat

    I didn’t politicize it…..what the fuck are you talking about now?

  • redwhitedude

    Anyways not worth protesting over this issue.

  • bigmamat

    I agree it’s not worth protesting. However that doesn’t stop the fundies from freaking out. They do it here too.

  • Sumo294

    Out of politics? Hah–you mean government funded abortion, government funded socialism–“cost free universal health care” and teachers who teach ten years old kids the benefits of oral sex at a public school. Sure–liberals don’t want to impose their beliefs on politics.

  • Sumo294

    So Korea has a democracy and some want to debate the issue–yet you have a problem with this? Why? A totalitarian regime is one where you get to impose your beliefs on society without debate or input from the rest of the populace.

  • Sumo294

    You want freedom of religion and the freedom not to believe in religion. Yet–if someone believes in the Bible that persons belief and the resulting social network represents an intrinsic “toxic” influence on society? Wow–I did not know the Jesuits represented such a danger to society.

  • Sumo294

    Hmnnn . . . you say Protestants are “certainly welcome to their opinion” then you say that they are hypocrites and that they have no moral or ethical value onto anyone else. Yet, you are judging them and also they are one citizen and therefore have an individual vote. Are they not allowed to vote or does having religious values disenfranchise you from voting? If you don’t believe in a god–do you not also have the right to vote?

  • Sumo294

    Being gay in the workplace does not come up unless the subject is brought up. Labor laws prohibit the firing of such a worker–what more is needed here? What you want is gay culture. This is for the teachers–I am sure the first thing the boss asked was “are you gay”?

  • Pingback: PHOTOS: Protestors Crash Korea Queer Festival, Chanting ‘Gays Have No Place In This Country’ | KoreAm Journal - Korean America's Premier Magazine()

  • redwhitedude

    Most of which is ignored. Just ignore their antics.

  • ChuckRamone

    You were so obviously being sarcastic that it’s hard for me to understand how someone could see it otherwise.

  • Dokdoforever

    Sure, I welcome any hypocritical group to express their opinion, vote or participate in politics. I’m just pointing out that their value system is just as contrary to traditional Korean culture as the group they are attacking for being opposed to traditional Korean cultural values. For instance, the belief in one God who cares most about society’s poorest does not accord with the traditional Confucian social order.

    Liberal democracies uphold human rights in addition to the principle of one person one vote. So, minority groups with unpopular opinions should have the right to express their views. There is freedom of the press and freedom of religion. In this system, Protestant Christians should allow other groups to enjoy the same rights that they enjoy. Protestant Christians do not have the right to deny rights to other groups with different value systems, whether they be gays, or Catholics or Buddhists, Mormons, 7th Day Adventists, Cheondoists, Shamanist, Muslims or anyone else.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    If universal healthcare is socialist, then what do you call it when a saline IV drip costs $150 and preexisting conditions disqualify people for coverage? America’s healthcare system is simply indefensible.

    It’s mind-boggling how the GOP convinced so many voters that their unbelievably expensive, bureaucratic, broken healthcare system is preferable to what every other industrialized nation does for fear of becoming “socialist.” It’s like the 1950s all over again.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “Being gay in the workplace does not come up unless the subject is brought up.”

    Don’t ask, don’t tell?

    “Labor laws prohibit the firing of such a worker”

    Because Korean employers always follow labor laws?

    What defines gay culture?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    People are allowed to say things, others are allowed to judge them.

    E.g. Creationists are allowed to say that God made the known Cosmos in 7 days and that it happened 5 thousand years ago. Others are allowed to judge them as the absolute morons that they are.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The workplace isn’t appropriate for flaunting your sexuality, hetero or homo.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Well, to be honest, its not the whacky righties or the whacky lefties that we should fear, but rather the mainstream righties and lefties. I would fear the left far more than the right.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    We call it “lack of competition” thanks to government regulations that favor large hospitals that can jack prices up without fear of being undercut.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Leave the gays alone. It is the religious freaks, not the homosexuals that pose the greatest dangers to liberties in Korea, the United States or anywhere where there is a radical
    religious wingnut faction oblivious to all facts, wilfully ignorant and hateful of basic truth. The gays seem to me to just want to be left alone. The religious lunatics, Christian and Muslim alike, want to impose their morality, a rotten, rancid morality at that, on everyone else. The gays are not anti-truth, the religious are. The gays are not trying to send everyone back to
    the 12th century, the religious crazies are. Armed with their book of lies, the Koran and the Bible, these “people” spit hatred and stupidity at anyone who looks at the world honestly. Armed with those rotten texts they want to curb freedoms and choice for everyone. Armed with those stinking pages of lies, they want to brainwash and idiotize a civilization that long ago moved away from their pathetic deities.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Agreed – there are already enough distracted employees here. But lunch could be an appropriate time for co-workers to chat about dating, marriage, etc. Gay people should be able to feel comfortable saying, “Thanks for offering to set me up with your friend, but I actually prefer men / women,” without fear of consequences. They should not have to lie about their preference.

  • pawikirogii

    i did not realize how funny this spiderman with a boner was until i saw an article just now about it. funny stuff. the artist in question has responded to the complaints on his facebook. what’s so funny is the picture of himself he included with his response. i couldn’t stop laughing! i’m gonna post the pic here as well as the link to the article. koreans aren’t like they used to be, they’re becoming more colorful. lol

    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ABARy/news/?a=101573

  • pawikirogii

    you know i saw that in the movie in which it appeared and was surprised. why? well, it was ice cube who muttered those words about korean jesus and it was also ice cube who rapped about a black korea or something like that. i’ve since learned he’s actually apologized for that. i’m glad because i like that dude. i’m also glad you guys could tell i went and got me a gay jesus for the poster. we humans are funny. we have lots of problems. gays are not on of them.

  • pawikirogii

    :-)

  • Bob Bobbs

    Did you read my link? South Korea signed the UDHR decades ago. Gay people are part of society. I don’t see your point, and I’m not American.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Korean maritime safety laws also prohibit overloading ferries.

  • Bob Bobbs
  • Sumo294

    The Bible was first brought to China by Jesuits. Korean scholars obtained a Chinese Bible and then translated it into Korean. It is Koreans who chose to bring the Bible into Korea and it is they who invited missionaries to come into Korea.

  • Sumo294

    If there is no “gay culture” then they are individuals–then all laws already protect the individual–What in the world are you advocating then?

  • Sumo294

    Its hypocritical to say that one is a hypocrite for judging and then you judge them for doing it. No one should judge according to you–then maybe you should be the first one not to judge so we can follow your example. Stop judging people Dokdoforever and please stop being a hypocrite.

  • bumfromkorea

    The trouble with your overall logic is that while you and the hypothetical ideal world see them as individuals, the world at large does not. In an ideal world, you’re right – they’re just individuals, and all the laws already protect them as individuals. This is not the ideal world. That’s why [insert a minority] right/[insert a minority]culture are important to acknowledge until the societal problems that cause [insert a minority] abuses/disadvantages are resolved.

  • Sumo294

    Are you sure Mike agrees with you? Or is this another example of one liberal saying one thing and an another liberal saying something else? Does Mike concur?

  • eorinni

    Seriously, what is this “gay culture” business?

  • bigmamat

    That’s because you live in Korea. We don’t have a communist dictator living right next door that the left identifies with like you do.

  • bigmamat

    Sometimes you have to overlook the misconceptions of youth. American politics is very polarized around race. It’s a divide and conquer strategy that actually works.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Nicely explained.

  • Dokdoforever

    I never said that there was something wrong or hypocritical simply with judging other people or by judging one’s self. One becomes a hypocrite by not holding one’s self to the same standard by which you judge others. So Conservative Protestants criticize gays for acting in ways contrary to traditional Korean values, yet Conservative Protestants don’t judge themselves by that same standard. If they did, they’d notice how far Christian beliefs diverge from traditional Confucian values. Confucian values, by the way, emphasis same-gender relationships, and are probably much more compatible with gay relationships than Christian belief systems.

  • Sumo294

    Resolved what? Race relations, gender relations, poverty, equitable education, and class distinctions–everything white liberal America has promised to fix–and its all the same. Black America still hates White America–the poor are still poor and rich people send their kids to private schools. You and your ilk have fixed nothing and now you want to export to Korea your wonderful solutions–please keep your awesome and incredible gay culture ideas–I would urge Koreans to take a pass on such awesomeness.

  • Sumo294

    It is wrong to judge other people is it not? That is what you believe is it not? If you judge other people–why can’t they judge you right back? You are the hypocrite for judging others when you feel people should not judge other people.

  • Sumo294

    Why would you concur and agree if you don’t believe in gay culture? Are you sure you understand what gay culture is?

  • bumfromkorea

    What’s me and my “ilk”? “White liberal America”? Maybe my sn isn’t too clear on this, but I’m not white. Not even an eighth-white. And I definitely don’t identify myself as a liberal. But I’m getting the feeling that “liberal” in this context is synonymous with “People who don’t agree with Sumo294″.

    If you think race relations, gender relations, poverty, equitable education, and class distinctions hasn’t changed since whenever, then you’re not paying attention to the modern American society. Modern-day problems don’t equate to a lack of improvement from the past. That’s exactly the kind of logical trapping that makes people pine for, let’s say, the 80s – the decade of AIDS, Iran-Contra, and the music scene where this was popular because people actually liked the song.

  • Dokdoforever

    As I said, there is nothing hypocritical about judging all by the same standard.

  • Sumo294

    You have invested into the counter culture movement–it was based on the idea that they would fix it. They have spent and spent and nothing got fixed–instead they created new imaginary problems and now its believers want to export that crap to Korea.

  • Sumo294

    Stop judging them if you believe one should not judge. Stop your lying and above all –stop being a hypocrite.

  • bumfromkorea

    You seem to be simply labeling me as a “liberal”, and then conveniently pegging all the associated problems and faults with the “liberal” label as a rebuttal. What’s the point of discussing anything with you, if your response is just going to be “You have invested into the [blah blah blah]”? How do you know which aspects of the “counter culture”, if any, that I have “invested” into (whatever that’s supposed to even mean)? Do you even know what my reasons and justifications are for supporting gay rights? I’d be a little disturbed, because I don’t think I ever told you before. Presupposing others’ reasons is bad enough as is, but using that presupposition as an argument is a logical catastrophe.

    You did this when the discussion was about modern feminism too – you just called me a feminist the whole time and insisted that it was nothing but the patriarchy rhetoric in spite of the overwhelming evidence that it’s far more branched out than that.

    What’s the difference between you and that resident psycho who calls everyone he disagrees with him “commie”?

  • Sumo294

    The fix is very easy–explain it then.

  • Dokdoforever

    hy·poc·ri·sy

    hiˈpäkrisē

    noun

    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform

  • Dokdoforever

    You evidently do not understand the definition of hypocrisy. Here it is:
    hy·poc·ri·sy
    hiˈpäkrisē
    noun
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform.

    Did I say Conservative Protestants should not judge others? No, I did not.
    I said they should not judge others by a different standard, if they do not want to be guilty of hypocrisy.
    If they judge others by the same standard, they are not hypocrites.

  • Sumo294

    You are judging these people –it is wrong for you to judge others–that makes you a hypocrite. What exactly did they do–they held up signs–they were not rioting. They were just standing there doing what people in democracies do. You judged them to be hypocrites for doing something so basic to a democracy–that makes you an utter hypocrite and worse–you come off as mean spirited and unkind.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    ANYWHERE not just Korea

  • redwhitedude

    I find the leftist far whackier than the rightist even in the US.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    As I said, I don’t believe in gay culture. Please explain what you think it is.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    Google “Zombietime” and “Folsom Street Fair”. That is your gay culture right there, and that is what traditionally-minded Koreans don’t intend to encourage.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Its not the rightists making people do re-education, aka “sensitivity training” to fix incorrect thought.

  • bumfromkorea

    For crying out loud… Explain what? What’s the “fix”? “Fix” for what? What’s “it”? Don’t just throw words and pronouns around without an appropriate context for the rest of us to understand.

  • redwhitedude

    Now you are labeling the leftist as communists with their “reeducation”.

  • Sumo294

    You wish to explain yourself–who is stopping you? Explain your position.

  • bumfromkorea

    Why should I? To prevent you from thinking that I’m a part of the “white liberal America”? This all started because instead of addressing the actual arguments about your ideal world vs. reality, you chose to simply go “Liberal this, liberal that” and talk about how liberal ideals failed America like some delusional talk show jockey from Fox radio. And when called out on your logical faults, you’re now just saying the equivalent of “Oh yeah? Prove it then.”

    You’re reaching the same level of unreasonableness as the resident psycho, who also demanded that I explain my thoughts to him to prevent him from thinking that I’m a “commie”. Congratulations?

  • Dokdoforever

    Sumo, I have no problem, in fact, I welcome Conservative Protestants to express their political views. I hope they get out there and protest foreign or domestic policies which they find objectionable. They cross the line, though, when they try to deprive other groups from exercising those same political rights. I think it’s wrong for them to seek to block Buddhists, or gays, or any other group from having a parade. That’s why they protested, wasn’t it? Not just to present their view, but to prevent another group from expressing its view. Every group, including the Conservatives, needs to play by the same rules of the game.

  • Sumo294

    I am curious then–what are your thoughts?

  • Sumo294

    The ROK democracy has always voted to deprive socialists of their political views–but its done through democracy. That is how a democracy works–you vote and the majority gets to put into laws their wishes. You do support a democratic Korea do you not? Otherwise you would be a hypocrite and judgmental.

  • bumfromkorea

    Congratulations.

  • Dokdoforever

    Sumo, liberal democracy has two components: representative majority rule + protection of human and minority rights. Please see for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

    In Korea, leftists are not denied political rights, anti-state forces are. There is a distinction. And gays do not want to overthrow the South Korean state.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The leftists are communists.

  • redwhitedude

    Not all.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    In Korea? All. In the US? The vast majority.

  • Sumo294

    The socialist in Korea want to abolish private property, private high schools and are against organized religion. The nature of Korean democracy has voted against the wishes of the leftists who would love to be in power through the vote. They have judged religion and capitalism to be the basis of human misery. They are hypocrites because they do not wish for any organized religion to survive yet they say otherwise. You are anti-religion–you are a hypocrite and you are judgmental.

  • Katsumi Sena

    But u have to know that All the Senate and house Are ALL Christians and i have heard that they were “trying” to pass a anti-discriminated law but it didn`t pass b/c everyone in the Gov. are Christians and didn`t want the bill to Pass But South Korea Needs to Know that THEY can still get into trouble for violated the lgbt korean people NOT only In the Korean Constitution BUT the Human Rights Constitution Under the UN Human rights bill. AND If the U.S wants to support the Korean Queer Festival then the U.S HAS the Right to do so and it`s stupid that they are protesting infront of the U.S ambassy and NOT the French or Germany Ambassy which is weird to hear but i feel srry for all those lgbt who have to live in a country that is “good country to go visited” is a country that won`t allowed their lgbt people to have a parade and tell the citizen about whats going and the history of the lgbt around the world