• redwhitedude

    They are hush hush about that but they rail against others doing unto them. No wonder nobody really buys into their positions.

    Education to them is an indoctrination exercise.

  • DC Musicfreak

    I’m not sure that the Tiananmen coverup is China’s biggest lie.

  • RElgin

    This live blog on NYT is a fair reminder of just how the PRC leadership feels about this date:
    http://nyti.ms/1mQ6qv0

  • redwhitedude

    The great leap forward, the cultural revolution, and the Long March are in contention to being the biggest lie.

  • dlbarch

    An uncropped version of that iconic photo. (I have the cropped AP version hanging in my office, among other things.)

    Remember, first a country gets rich, then its people demand a say in how it’s governed. Democracy will come to China. Its hard-working people will demand it…and deserve it.

    DLB

  • dlbarch

    Thumbs up on the first two, but the Long March?

    DLB

  • redwhitedude

    Long March was communist running around China for dear life. It wasn’t a glorious trek that the communist are making it out to be. Not to mention that Mao just sat on the caves at Yenan for the duration of the second sino-japanese war snipping at the KMT.

    Looks like the communist are going to kill several millions more since they fail to properly learn from the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. There is a good probability that if that happens again the communist will be tossed from power.

  • redwhitedude

    The communist think that they can keep the current political system while the economy develops. You know that doesn’t fly that the political system needs to adapt. Just look at the soviet bloc for proof. Trying to do that will have unintended consequences.

  • dlbarch

    There is a whole block of PoliSci literature on this subject, and not everyone is as deterministic as I am. (Singapore is the grand exception…a monstrously wealthy country whose citizens seem to show no interest to pressing for democratic participation.)

    It’s certainly an interesting question either way. One formulation I’ve seen is to stop thinking of China as communist and think of it instead as fascist…where the state essentially tells its people: “Go ahead, make all the money you can, we got your back, but leave the politics to us.”

    A long-term, successful fascist state would test the bounds of conventional developmental political economy. We are indeed living in interesting times.

    DLB

  • redwhitedude

    China is a fascist state. It is a totalitarian regime that turns everything into an arm of the state. They just say they espouse socialism(in a way).

  • DukeofQin

    I find the Western infatuation with Tiananmen square laughable. As far as crimes committed by the Communist Party is concerned, it is a veritable stolen candy compared to the real atrocities perpetrated, like say the murder of several hundred million Han children in the name of population control.

    Sweeping the square of rabble rousing would be student revolutionaries wasn’t a crime, it was a service.

  • DukeofQin

    You are wrong because you do not seem to understand what either fascism and totalitarianism actually mean. Totalitarian politics is necessarily populist politics and involves mass mobilization of the people. The communist party state today doesn’t like it when more than half a dozen Chinese gather together in one spot let alone to discuss politics and the mass campaigns of the Cultural Revolution are long over. No, the Communist Party rules over a bureaucratic legitimist state. It’s right to rule is because it currently rules.

  • brier

    Maybe I have missed it, but has the Korean government come out with a statement that marks this anniversary and shows sympathy for the aims of the protesters? (Has it ever?) Taiwan and Japan have, so was wondering if South Korea has also done it. After all, with its history, it ought to be sympathizing.

    Or is the current government just too much in China’s grasp?

  • hoju_saram

    The way I understand it, the Long March has been turned into a fable in which Mao is painted as a soldier marching from one battle to the next, when he actually did very little personal marching at all, and had his thugs brutalized people wherever he went. There are a lot of fibs about the whole thing.

    Great book if get a chance: Mao: The Untold Story.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “Sweeping the square of rabble rousing would be student revolutionaries wasn’t a crime, it was a service.”

    Wow. I hope you don’t live in a democratic society, because you don’t deserve it with that mentality.

  • redwhitedude

    Communism is a subset of totalitarian regime where the communists exert control in every aspect of the country. No independent thought no independent or alternative political ideas. Everything is done for the sake of the communist party agenda, business, social, military, etc… Until they give up their monopoly of power it will be a totalitarian regime that is masquerading as a civil society. Until that happens the communist will have set up a regime that has contradictions.

  • redwhitedude

    This guy DukeofQin in youtube seems to act like the communist mouthpiece in youtube, backing things like the NE project of the communists party in China.

  • Duke of Qin

    I am impressed, you have managed to find a dictionary and/or Wikipedia. Unfortunately you can mouth the the words but still haven’t a clue what they mean in practice. You sound like a stupid little Bolshevik. Are you a stupid little Bolshevik? I see them sometimes holding forth at great length about this dialectic and that contradiction but I get the sense that they merely like the sounds because it makes them feel self important.

  • Duke of Qin

    Wrong on both counts. I am neither a mouthpiece of the Communist Party nor have I ever commented on Youtube. It has much more than its fair share of idiots and this blog already has more than I remember.

  • felddog13

    yeah. great book. Mao–a 100% mass-murdering thug.

  • felddog13

    A few weeks ago I asked a Chinese exchange student at my school what he learned about the Korean War. He said: the South invaded the North, and China counterattacked because Macarthur had crossed the Yalu and invaded China proper. I wanted to weep. THen I wanted to tell him, if you believe that, then you have no business studying in South Korea.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    And one more idiot as of today. Make that a racist, Chinese-supremacist idiot, based on your other Disqus comments.

  • DC Musicfreak

    It is true that since China is in fact lying about everything, from Tibet to the Senkakus to the South China Sea and every subject in between, the TAM chicanery is a smaller lie. Still, gunning down hundreds or thousands of unarmed civilians and then claiming it never happened takes the cake.

  • Sumo294

    I am going to have to agree with the Duke on this one. China is no longer Communist per say–they have gone way down the rabbit hole of private property, finance, markets and making of money for that to come back anytime soon. The Duke may be right on the definition–maybe not.

  • Sumo294

    Tip of the iceberg. Welcome to the world. What do you think they teach? Facts?

  • Duke of Qin

    I find it interesting that those are the examples that spring immediately to your mind. Not the millions purged in the anti-rightist campaigns, or the millions more starved in the Great Leap backward, or the hundreds of thousands in the Cultural Revolution, or the hundreds of millions through the one child policy.

    No, your moral outrage is directed at how the Chinese state deals with outsiders. Territorial dispute over uninhabited islands with the Japanese and the Vietnamese is the more monstrous sin.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    It’s the contemporary sin – that’s why people care about it right now.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    What your student said is accurate – it’s just not the whole story. Those events happened during Fall 1950. It’s a snippet of the war and it serves the Chinese perspective. You could even argue that it’s the only part of the war that’s really relevant to the Chinese.

    Likewise, most Americans have no idea how the Vietnam War started. American students don’t learn about the French occupation or the origins of the conflict. Most Americans probably don’t even know Ho Chi Minh from Pol Pot. And very few Americans know anything at all about the Philippine-American War.

    So it’s not your student’s fault that he’s been taught a distorted perspective. Instead, you could teach him about the rest of the Korean War. I’d recommend the Korean War Memorial in Yongsan, even if it is somewhat biased and selective (on our side, of course).

  • redwhitedude

    They are not truly communist but neither are they truly capitalists. The claim that they adhere to “socialism with chinese characteristics”.

  • Sumo294

    They are not socialists per say, but I think they still bow to the altar of communism–in that rituals and language still reflect their communist origins and thoughts. The older guys still believe in that crap that’s for sure. The new guys on the block–hmnnnn.

  • redwhitedude

    But they are not capitalist either. Just look at their designation of “strategic” industries and big state owned enterprises for example. Government role there is a bit more than say government in western europe with nationalized enterprises. It is a country that still views communist party as the road to follow and does not tolerate any alternatives.