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The Kim Yuna Thread

If you’ve got something to say about Adelina Sotnikova stealing the gold, say it here.

The top Sports news list at Naver says it all:

스크린샷, 2014-02-21 10:27:05

UPDATE: The Facebook pages of the ISU and Russian President Vlad Putin are reportedly getting flooded with angry comments from Korean netizens. The comments at the ISU page are mostly in English, while the ones on Vlad’s page are largely in Korean… and a bit earthier. Or so the report says.

Meanwhile, SBS announcer Bae apparently left a couple of comments on Putin’s Facebook, too, namely, “If you’re going to hold a neighborhood sports day, why did you invite us?” and “Sochi is the suchi (shame) of the Olympics.” He later removed the comments.

Some netizens, though, worry about a repeat of what happened to the British skater Elise Christie, while others worry that Chinese and Japanese netizens and possibly North Korean cyber agents posing as (South) Koreans might post abuse just to make Koreans look bad.

Ordinarily, I’d say online abuse makes Korea look bad, but frankly, I can think of few world figures more deserving of salty online commentary than Vlad Putin.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • bballi bballi paradise

    Stay classy figure skating!

  • felddog13

    Looks like the judging was legit,or at least defensible. Still, I hope Korean netizens hack Russian ICBM bases and make their nukes self-destruct or photo-shop Putin into gay porn scenes or something.

  • Dave

    Have the netizens gone ape shit yet?

    Poor losers as always.

  • wangkon936
  • wangkon936
  • felddog13

    It seems Kim knew as soon as she finished that she was second best. From my Korean friends on FB I’m seeing about 1/3 “We still love you Yuna!”, 1/3 “WTF?!. . . oh well.” and 1/3 “This is fuckin’ bullshit–shut down the Kremlin’s e-mail servers!”

  • Cosmin Visan

    I can t upload anything into this disqus… but at
    Any rate, head over to the Guardian and read the comments
    (far better than the article)… i think they present a really
    solid case that Yuna was robbed (man posting from a phone sucks)

  • charliemarlow

    Not hearing a lot of commentators around the world who say the results make sense. The most anyone says is that the Russian’s technical scores were stronger. Not being an expert, I can only say Kim was incredibly artistic and the Russisn just skated from jump to jump. I understand Katerina Witt, who has some expertise, was shocked by the scoring.

  • Horace Jeffery Hodges

    Putin sporting his own personal ICBM!

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • dlbarch

    Let’s be honest: Yuna was robbed.

    I know Korea’s thuggish netizen community can be exasperating at times, but this time, they absolutely have every reason to be outraged.

    Christ, I know next to nothing about figure skating, but even I came away from watching the final competition thinking that Sotnikova’s stumble at the end of her set was a deal-breaker.

    This decision was ludicrous, pure and simple, and the result of some very crude hometown score inflation.

    Put an asterisk next to Sotnikova’s name in the record books, folks.

    DLB

  • redwhitedude

    You’re joking right? I thought Sotnikova’s routine was far more difficult than Yuna. Sotnikova didn’t make any major miscues. I felt Yuna could have done a much harder routine.

  • redwhitedude

    I fall in the first 1/3.

  • redwhitedude

    Well it is a choice between somebody was more artistic and somebody who was doing a more technically difficult routine. Sotnikova fully deserved the gold though.

  • redwhitedude

    An award to Sotnikova?

  • somms

    From what I’ve read, the decision sounds defensible. As a Korean American, I’ll also chalk it up to sports karma for the Roy Jones Jr. loss in 1988 and for the 2002 World Cup — a heavy dose of home field advantage with perhaps a dash of corruption. Or is it the other way around?.

  • Arghaeri

    The commentator on the feed I was listening to had it down pat as soon as she completed, to paraphrase “that was beautiful but she’s 4 points down on the technical, no way she can make that up in the component.”

  • ChuckRamone

    I don’t know enough about figure skating to say, but man, I hope nobody makes asses of themselves or their country over this. Second place is nothing to hang your head about, especially considering her achievements. If the scores are defensible, and you take into consideration how unpredictable factors often come into play in the outcomes of sporting events – sometimes in your favor, sometimes not – then there’s nothing to go apeshit about.

  • Horace Jeffery Hodges

    Nah, he’s just Putin on the Ritz!

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • Gorgonzola
  • JW

    I think one thing u can knock yuna on is that she seems to have underestimated home court advantage by skating with a lower base but if that’s not believable ( u’d have to be kinda stupid..its russia) then perhaps another theory is that she is reallly telling the truth..as hard as it may be to believe .. when she says that winning the gold is not that important to her any more. She said that she won it already so its not the same any more. It’s a plausible explanation in my opinion and even if u were to say that it was merely her way of dealing with the pressure its also possible that it backfired on her by preventing her best performance to come out.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    So her score spikes up 20 points above the highest she has received all year outside of Russia; the Russian judge is the wife of a high Russian Skating Federation oficial,
    and the Ukrainian judge was a guy who was thrown out of
    the sport for a year for fixing a competition in 1998 at Nagano; the judging was of course secret and anonymous; and Yuna made no mistakes while the Russian had several mistakes; and this is supposed to be legitimate? The Koreans should lodge a protest with the IOC and the skating federation because this was pure robbery. Not surprised at all by Russians cheating.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Even if Yuna put up 20 quadruple axels she would have lost. This was decided prior to the competition and was perfectly predictable.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2014/02/20/Sochi-Scandal-Wife-of-Russian-Skating-Fed-Pres-Judge-Suspended-for-Fixing-Matches-on-Panel-that-Gave-Gold-to-Russian

    “A judge that was once suspended for being caught on tape trying to
    fix an Olympic figure skating contest and another who is the wife of the
    president of the Russian skating federation were on a panel that
    awarded a controversial and suspicious gold medal to a Russian figure
    skater that stumbled during her free skate program Thursday night in
    Sochi, Russia during the 2014 Winter Olympics”

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Collective guilt?

  • JW

    Another theory I’ve seen floated is that yuna knows with a level of deep certainty that can only come from the person herself that she is indisputably the best skater in world so she doesn’t give a shit about the scoring system which is unreliable , often changing, and liable to corruption. If you don’t care about the scoring then naturally u are not going to alter your skating which u believe to be the best to fit the scoring system. That would constitute an intolerable debasing of her art. Makes sense to me.

  • Aja Aja

    Wrong there. Most of the articles I read said Yuna’s moves were more ddifficult. The only thing better the Russian did was one more jump, which admittedly was more difficult jump than Yuna. But that should not have given that much scoring gap to the Russian over Yuna. The Russian didn’t just win, she ran away with the points, not even close. What people are asking is was the Russian’s performance justified to give her a landslide victory over Yuna?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Re-do the judging, this time without anonymity. Use video evidence and see how things shape up. Demand justification for scoring decisions. If people refuse to cooperate, assume they are guilty and ban them from the sport for 10 years.

  • outofspace

    The New York Times has written a couple of articles about the difference in difficulty between the two skaters’ routines, both of which seemed pretty convincing to me, as someone who doesn’t know much about skating:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/20/sports/olympics/womens-figure-skating.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/20/sports/olympics/womens-figure-skating.html

    Would you mind sharing which moves the articles you read were calling more difficult?

  • 코리아

    Regardless of what really transpired (we’ll never know), I do love this quote:

    “The (judging) panel made me wish that the United States and Canada had split up into many different countries,” said choreographer Lori Nichol

  • 코리아

    I think one possibility is really just more judges. Everybody scores all the routines (some on the ice, some watching via video to get away from the crowd effects), take all the numbers, remove the outliers and take a random sample from there. Everybody can retain their anonymity if they want because nobody knows who’s scores will really count.

  • Aja Aja

    One good example, the one posted up by salaryman. I too don’t know much about this sports but just going by what I read.

  • 코리아

    I don’t think the argument is being made anywhere that Yuna’s jumps were totally more difficult (with the exception of maybe on of her combos), but that the overall routine (components+technical) was more difficult than just jumping and spinning with no connection to the music

  • outofspace

    Okay, thanks. I’ll take a closer look at his posts below.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    So, the American Pravda comes out in defense of Putin’s little *^#$@ in opposition to what pretty much everyone else is saying and you buy it?

    I put this elsewhere: a routing that had a two-footed landing and other little mistakes was about ONE-TENTH of a point off the WORLD RECORD Yuna put up 4 years ago in Vancouver? Do you really buy this?

  • kaithecat

    Not sure if you were trying to chalk it up to sports karma or if it was a pathetic attempt at trying to sound rational and objective by comparing unrelated events. Just because you received a preference, it doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize for being at the opposite end of it. You should get blasted for being a cheater in the past, but that shouldn’t stop you from blasting your opponent for cheating (if they did) in the present.

  • outofspace

    Thanks, I can see how connecting things in that way would be more difficult in that it would require a greater sense of artistry, etc., though I still wonder how they typically weigh that against the difficulty of the moves themselves.

  • somms

    Calm down, it was a fucking joke.

  • redwhitedude

    Well change the seating arrangement. They were all looking at it in the same angle. Perhaps scatter the judges around the rink. Add more judges.

  • kaithecat

    I think I felt the most emotional for Asada Mao today.
    After having completely crapped on her first day (point in the 50s), and any shot at ending up on the podium, she performed flawlessly in my eyes. Though her triple axle was still a bit botched, she didn’t fall and was full of emotion. Her tears in the end said everything I believe. I hope she stays strong through all the crazy criticisms in Japan.

    As for Yuna, she was beautiful and perfect as always.
    By the way, Asada Mao completed 8 jumps including one triple axle(botched but received full points), which is one more than what the Russian girl jumped.

  • kaithecat

    I am calm. It’s the internet.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I like Asada. Its always tough that she tries too hard and falls. If not for Yuna she would have had so much more success because she wouldnt have to push beyond her limits. Im no expert but it always seems that she cracks under the pressure, but once she has fallen, and lost much chance of winning, and hence the pressure is off, she skates almost faultlessly after that.

  • outofspace

    I’m not sure who this “pretty much everyone” is, but I’ve seen several articles defending the decision and one article, yours below, that argues against it through an earnest analysis of the two routines. Even then, the New York Times articles include specific numbers and cite the difference in difficulty points attributed to the routines the skaters chose, whereas your article provides a lot of (compelling) details about historical context but little quantitative evidence about the routines themselves.

    “Sotnikova landed seven triple jumps to six for Kim … [Kim] did not attempt a triple loop or a
    double axel, triple toe loop combination, as did Sotnikova. Also, Kim
    did not receive the highest level for her step sequence or her layback
    spin.”

    “Sotnikova’s combination had a much
    higher base value because she chose to do the most difficult double
    jump, the double axel. She received high marks for her good flow, height
    and distance. She added a 10 percent bonus by executing the combination
    in the second half of the program.

    The double jump Kim chose is one of the
    easiest, so it has a low base value. The entry was simple, and the jump
    ended with little speed.

    On two elements, the footwork and the
    layback spin, Sotnikova had a difficulty level of 4, while Kim had a
    level 3. This meant that Kim had nearly a point deficit in the base
    value for the two elements combined. In her layback spin, Sotnikova
    changed positions with ease while maintaining speed and intensity, and
    the judges rewarded her with higher marks. She received nearly two
    points more than Kim did for the two elements.”

    Still, I think the choice of judges and the inflated score are definitely red flags. It stinks of corruption. However, that’s why I like the New York Times articles and other articles that actually make an attempt to explain the scoring process and the numbers behind how the winners are chosen. If we can’t trust the judges, it seems to be one of the few ways we have, as (at least in my case) skating dilettantes, of knowing who really should have won.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Explain how a botched program, and one far below the difficulty and artistry of Yuna’s 2010 world record program winds up ONE TENTH OF A POINT LOWER. That is inflated scoring no matter how much the liars at the NYT try to dress it up as “analysis”

  • 코리아

    I think it’s supposed to all come into component scores (skating, transitions, choreography, performance) which is an area a lot of experts seem to be questioning. While Sotnikova may have rightly won decisively on technical (jumps), she was only put barely behind Yuna on component scores. Since component scores are the most subjective, they’re probably where the hometown crowd reactions played the biggest part.

  • outofspace

    I don’t need to explain anything. The only numbers I’ve seen indicating a difference in difficulty in the two skaters’ routines have been ones indicating that the Russian skater’s routine was more difficult. I’d be very interested in seeing numbers that disagree with this if you have them.

  • kaithecat

    It sounds about right hence her weeping in the end. Doesn’t help when everyone including the former prime minister puts you on blast.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I have them: its called Yuna’s 150.06 World Record and Putin’s little $@#!&’s 149.95. How a program with a two footed landing comes close to what is considered perhaps the greatest skate in the history of the sport, needs to be explained.

  • Guest

    Those aren’t numbers comparing the difficulty of the two skaters’ routines (obviously). However, I do agree with you that the score inflation needs to be accounted for.

  • outofspace

    Those aren’t numbers comparing the difficulty of the two skaters’ routines (obviously). However, I do agree with you that the score inflation needs to be accounted for. The judging system seems corrupt as hell.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Yes, it is. It is comparing TWO SKATERS, albeit at different time. But that shouldn’t matter if this is an objective scoring system with specific scores for different elements. In practice, if OBJECTIVE, you should be able to use this scoring system to judge any two skates in history, just as you would be able to objectively judge any two sprinters against each other.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    They should re-do the scoring

  • Aja Aja

    Once it’s over, it should be over. It’s done, complete, finished. Move on.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    So you are happy that a little &^#!@ goes home with an undeserved gold medal? If karma really works, her aeroflot will fly like an aeroflot

  • outofspace

    Yeah, that makes sense to me. Thanks!

  • felddog13

    Fuckin’ a.

  • http://jidohero.blogspot.com JidoHero

    Figure skating is subjective and esoteric however it looks like Sotnikova won base on higher technical difficulty. Kim Yuna’s comments after the event were as graceful as her skating. She’s a great Olympic 대표 for the 대한민국. Unfortunate that this is her last Olympics.

  • vtwkang

    Piss off, seriously. Sotnikova deserves nothing but praise for her performance. She had the guts go to for a technically complicated routine and she pulled it off either almost or entirely flawlessly. As for the judging, it was out of her hands.

  • SeoulGoodman

    Many former figure skating champions have complained about the judging, so…

  • SeoulGoodman

    Actually, she scoffed when she saw her score. She knows more about the dirty tricks that go on backstage than you and I. I had a feeling something was amiss when Mao Asada was given a total score greater than 198 in spite of her poor performance during the short program. Clearly, some of the following scores were going to be inflated.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Are you a Russian?

  • SeoulGoodman

    She flubbed one of her jumps, landing on two feet. That’s a considerable mistake…and yet she got better technical scores than Yuna Kim? Come on.

  • SeoulGoodman

    Nah, it’s a result of not taking away the gold from the Russian skaters to give it to the rightful winners after it was found that Russia had bribed at least two judges.

  • SeoulGoodman

    Mmm, Yuna Kim skates with speed and fluidity. She doesn’t set up her jumps, she just does them, and lands them perfectly. Can anybody else do the same? No. Don’t be fooled by the argument that Sotnikova’s additional jump (which she didn’t land well) makes her routine more technically difficult.

  • vtwkang

    No, just amused by your ranting.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I think you’re a Russian

  • vtwkang

    ладно

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Sorry about sucking at hockey.

  • powpowpowpow

    Have Korean netizens never seen Roy Jones Jr. saga from ’88? The sad thing is, after all the new found keyboard figure skating experts fill in their online petitions they will probably take the time to send the young Russian winner a threat and hate filled message as well. Sore sore losers.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    She will deserve all the hate she gets from now on.

  • DC Musicfreak

    Geez. What in the world has Russia ever done to be so completely denied the benefit of doubt?

  • platethief

    The same thing Britain did in the Summer Olympics – they hosted events in which Korean athletes didn’t win. And that’s not fair.

  • j95lee

    Why does Sotnikova deserve the hate?

  • j95lee

    I felt a bit down watching Queen Yuna fall just short of B2B gold…… until I read the Korean Netizen reaction online.

    Their salty tears bring a smile to my face.

  • BSDetector

    While I loooovveee a good argument; my absolute lack of caring at all about the Olympics has drained any desire to wade into this one.

    Furthermore I just want to point out that this page is full of guys, mostly guys, arguing/discussing about an injustice in… Figure Skating. -_- Figure Skating! I should call the man police right now to raid this joint to confiscate all your man cards and sentence everyone to wearing lace thongs for a month.

  • SeoulGoodman

    They bribed two judges during the 2002 winter Olympics, stealing a gold from the Canadian skaters.

  • SeoulGoodman

    It’s not just Koreans, but everyone who follows figure skating that isn’t Russian.

  • chooNryusk

    “1998 at Nagano”

    And S. Korean ex-cons represent S. Korea and hand out Olympic flowers, medals, etc…to Olympic medal winners. Couldn’t Russia have found one of their ex-cons to stand before Yu-na and hand her thy silver medal?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Koreans should act in the manner befitting of being the home country of Yuna Kim herself, and *drop this completely*, and not get swayed in the general anti-Russian sentiment in the West:

    http://article.joins.com/news/article/article.asp?total_id=13968256&cloc=rss%7Cnews%7Csports

    She says it’s not going to change the decision whether she is happy or not happy with it, and she is satisfied with her own clean performance, so she is content. She says in other Figure skating events there are always talks of unfair scoring anyway, it’s only the fact that it’s the Olympics that it is highlighted.
    She was kind of expecting the scoring to be low after getting the score of the SP.

    She gave credit to Mao by speaking with melancholy of the long rivalry with Mao, with the respective country’s expectation on their shoulders.. and says she almost burst out crying when she saw Mao burst out crying after her LP, and wants to say “長い間、きっといっぱい苦労したんだよね。、。。그동안 고생 많이 했던 것 같다. 。。

    In fact I think she was much happier with her SP than her LP and the surprise on her face showed when she got the SP score, I’m sure her surprise continued when they continued to give practically the same score to Sotnikova, almost as a compensation after seeing the original hopeful Lipniskaya land on her bum, so her LP scoring did not create as much indignant impact on her.

    About the main scoring of the LP, her performance on the day wasn’t enough to overpower the obvious expected home advantage..OK, she was a cut above the rest but that LP performance wasn’t.
    About the technical merit of the program, I think the problem is like I mentioned on the other thread, that Sotnikova was not even a serious competitor in the piece she can play (if you go to the music competition analogy) to Yuna in the first place, but she put in one or two easy tricks (just more numbers) using the point scoring system and got the home crowd excitement going, and skated well enough, although she made an obvious mistake, they were willing to forgive her for that..Yuna just skated beautifully a harder program overall without any mistake at all, which is why the majority of the non-Korean experts who are indignant tend to be older ex-figure skaters themselves, who are simply indignant in the way nuts and bolts of *the way things are scored now* that creates a scenario which might give gold to the kiddie Russian..

    Concerning the title of the linked Joonang article “You can have the gold but let’s have some manners.” – about Sotnikova leaving the press room during Yuna’s answer to the last question from the press…With my experience from music competitions (and Russians), it’s very hard to expect female graciousness and false humility from Russian girls, they are just very hard – maybe it’s the language as well..it explains the very haughty demeanor (before as well during their interview) of the Russian kiddie skaters, doesn’t mean they are not nice, and that there aren’t any soft ones among them..

  • DC Musicfreak

    I was being entirely facetious, lads. Frankly, it’s hard to think of a thing Russia has done that isn’t entirely dodgy.

  • DC Musicfreak

    “Koreans should act in the manner befitting of being the home country of Yuna Kim” — and that would be … death threats, shutdowns of IOC websites, harassment of the Russian skaters’ family by Korean journalists???

  • chooNryusk

    Some don’t know you were being sarcastic, I’m sorry for their sake.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Are you dumb or are you just pretending to be? Can your brain not finish a perfectly constructed sentence or are you going to complain about a comma at the wrong place or something again?

    More importantly, do you think your comment falls in any of the following:

    1. witty sarcasm
    2. refreshing new insight
    3. wise prescience
    4. all of the above

  • platethief

    ‘http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/02/116_152075.html’

    A petition war. Over a sporting event. Against a country whose population is many times larger than its own.

    Do the KT have any idea how much harm they do to the international image of Korea?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Only about as much as these guys do as they have to the international image of Japan

    http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/eye-on-olympics/24449763/tokyo-2020-chairman-blasts-japan-figure-skater-mao-asada

  • DC Musicfreak

    It was your usual clumsy and meandering writing that brought my response. You should have said something like “Koreans should act in a manner that does honor to the grace (or class) of Kim Yuna.” As The Marmot points out in the OP, the real worry is that Korea will act in the manner that they have historically and “add frost atop the snow” to borrow a Sino-Korean idiom.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    I should have said something like? Eh? I’m so glad that actually I put all the commas in the right place in that first sentence then and I didn’t actually edit anything in the sentence after my first write. Also good to see my perfectly constructed sentence is what gets credit (or blame) for bringing out such great response..

    So the answer to my own question must be 5.

  • bumfromkorea

    I think that, at the end of the day, Yuna Kim’s performance will be remembered. Gold or not, people aren’t going to remember Sotnikova’s two-footed performance. And by showing us yet another instance of incredible grace, Yuna Kim has secured her prospective job in the IOC.

    Sotnikova’s gold will always have an invisible asterisk next to it, given the widespread disagreement with the judging within even the skating world… which is sad, because what did Sotnikova ever do but skate her best?

    I am also seriously deja vuing from the whole Jamie Sale and David Petellier controversy from Salt Lake City.

  • platethief

    Ah, yes, Japan.

    Why hasn’t anyone mentioned the evil Japanese yet?

  • bumfromkorea

    With Asada Mao, I always think back to the quote “既生瑜,何生亮”. If they were just born 4 to 8 years apart, they would each have been *the* dominant skaters of their era. I feel sad that Yuna Kim wasn’t able to get the 2nd gold and end her story as a competitor on the highest note, but my heart breaks for Asada Mao.

    Also? http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/tokyo-2020-chairman-critical-of-mao-asada-japan-skater-022014

    Douchebag. What a fucking douchebag.

  • Sumo294

    Katarina Witt–two time gold medal winner looked very perplexed as to why Yuna did not win. Perhaps Katarina Witt is unaware of the intricacies of how figure skating is scored despite having two gold medals in the sport? She of all people had the most to lose if Yuna had matched her record but it was very obvious Katarina Witt thought Yuna deserved the gold medal.

  • chooNryusk

    I Googled ‘Apollo Anton Ohno Vancouver medal ceremony’ and
    found the Samsung schmuck ex-con chairman / CEO Lee Kun-hee handing out prizes to Olympians. Wouldn’t you be proud to
    receive an Olympic medal from the Ex-Con Lee, Kun-hee?

    J.R. Celski Pictures – Vancouver Medal C

    J.R. Celski J.R. Celski of the United
    States celebrates receiving the bronze medal during the medal. Vancouver Medal
    Ceremony – Day 3

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ohno+vancouver+medal+ceremony&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GUcHU5yLAseaiQfw3IHICw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=665#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=A04OWYNVgeEOoM%253A%3BLl6HZfsmX7kMpM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww1.pictures.zimbio.com%252Fgi%252FVancouver%252BMedal%252BCeremony%252BDay%252B3%252BlVHBwBNxLIKl.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.zimbio.com%252Fpictures%252Fe3f7PrGfbgH%252FVancouver%252BMedal%252BCeremony%252BDay%252B3%252FlVHBwBNxLIK%252FJ.R.%252BCelski%3B594%3B432

    Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics Medal Ceremony Apollo
    Ohno S
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJ3nmGKObA

  • tkdpirate

    I find it interesting that many in the know (skaters both current and past, past judges, coaches..etc) have come out and said the scoring seemed wrong. Yet, if you read back a few days you will see the same things being said after the first day of skating. With this in mind, it seems likely that scores on BOTH days were inflated/penalized in a way that might be considered wrong. Yuna was on top afte the first day, but isnt it possible that the score she got then may have been scewed some way (meaning she may not have deserved the score she got after day 1). I mean, we are talking about the scoring, but few are talking about it in the context of BOTH days, but only because of Yuna (as in she was robbed) and making it out as some Russian conspiracy. I think we can all agree the sports decided by human judges leave alot to be desired.

  • chooNryusk

    What’s with Kim Yuna and her stuffed polar bears? Does she donate any part of her millions of $$$ to their cause? Or, does she like men who eat their gall bladders etc…for “stamina?”
    “Poaching:
    Bear parts including gall bladders and bile are used in traditional Asian medicine, resulting in a large international trade, some of which is illegal under CITES – the
    Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species.
    Some bears are hunted for food including polar bears and paws are eaten in some Asian countries. Their paws and fur are sought after as trophies in some places and the fur is also used to make rugs.”

  • redwhitedude

    A major mistake is not sticking the landing. Her program was much more daring than Yuna’s. Eventhough I wanted Yuna to win I have to hand it her Sotnikova.

  • chooNryusk

    1.5 million people(idiots) are calling for or want the women’s figure skating event “re-judged.” I’d bet 1.5 million Won that Koreans consist of 90% of those people, the other 10% consist of some bigger idiots.

  • redwhitedude

    So the judging will never be perfect.

  • redwhitedude

    No accusations yet that it was a mafia job on judging yet.

  • redwhitedude

    Okay why not have a face off between the two just to satisfy that crowd. Not!

  • redwhitedude

    It is more daring that Yuna’s program.

  • redwhitedude

    They are still far better than South Korean hockey which as far the level of the teams that are playing is off the radar.

  • redwhitedude

    What can you say? Scoring isn’t going to be perfect.

  • redwhitedude

    Sotnikova deserves praise. If anybody is to be blamed that would be the judges for their their scoring if people don’t like it.

  • JW

    Dudes, come on. Thing was obviously rigged. Trying to look like a “fair third party observer” only makes you look like an idiot, in this case.

    “”We know that the judges’ panel for the women’s free skate did not include a Korean judge (or an American one) but did include four from Eastern Europe: Russia, Ukraine, Estonia, and Slovakia. We know that the Russian judge, Alla Shekhovtseva, is married to the general director and past president of the Figure Skating Federation of Russia, which the International Skating Union (ISU) somehow does not view as a conflict of interest. And we know that the judge from Ukraine, Yury Balkov, received a yearlong suspension from the ISU after the 1998 Nagano games, when a Canadian judge recorded Balkov proposing a vote-trading deal. Balkov was back in action in time to serve as a judge during the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City, site of the judging scandal that helped lead to a total revamp of the scoring system for figure skating.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2014/02/sochi_olympics_figure_skating_russia_s_adelina_sotnikova_won_figure_skating.html

  • chooNryusk

    The Korean judge and American judge scored the 1st half of the competition the day before, is it an automatic that they judge the 2nd half or the next day? I think NOT!

  • JW

    You forgot to mention that the 2nd half is worth about twice as more points than the 1st.

  • chooNryusk

    But did the IOC ever check Kim Yuna for Polar Bear Insemination via Asian man?

  • The Real Truth

    All I want to know, is how long will I have to hear all of the Koreans in my office complain about this? It’s not an issue of was she ‘robbed’ or not, but more of an issue of ‘why do so many people care’? It’s figure skating. FIGURE SKATING. I don’t know what’s more pathetic; watching figure skating, or getting angry about figure skating.

    How many of you ‘heterosexual’ men actually sat down and watched the figure skating event, and then later when on to discuss it with your friends or co-workers? Go on, don’t be shy; we aren’t judging anyone here on the ‘Hole. But out of curiosity; do you also discuss riveting topics like EXO’s latest single, and what color nail polish G-dragon wore in his last music video?

  • chooNryusk

    If you get a chance to watch any event from start to finish in S. Korea consider yourself lucky because MBC/SBS ain’t interested in showing S. Koreans other things. I couldn’t stay awake for the whole thing(women’s figure skating) but that doesn’t mean others weren’t able. Nonetheless, the S. Korean group I sat and talked with the other night didn’t seem to care one bit about anyone except Kim Yuna. Korea, FIGHTING!!! There are many similarities{brainwashing) between South/North Korea.

  • SeoulGoodman

    They are complaining about the judging at the current games.

  • http://www.busanhaps.com/ Bobby McGill

    Looks like the change.org petition site crashed with the weight of the protest: http://www.busanhaps.com/article/korean-netizens-crash-changeorg-website-protesting-figure-skating-decision

  • SeoulGoodman

    An extra jump, which she didn’t land well, is not more daring. Besides, Yuna was penalized on technical points…How many skaters can skate as she does, going into a jump at full speed without pausing to set it up? None.

  • SeoulGoodman

    An extra jump that she didn’t land properly does not make it more daring. There’s more to it than that. The level of difficulty simply wasn’t the same. Kim Yuna’s routine is technically more demanding (yes, there’s more to it than jumps, something the Russians would love you to forget since they suck at everything else. It’s not a coincidence that Patrick Chan has been the world champion for several years, not the Russian Plushenko).

  • Arghaeri

    It’s really simple allow only judges from Western Samoa, Panama and Chad.

    Of course they’ll know shit about figure skating but bias won’t be an issue!!!

  • Arghaeri

    And yet you didn’t

  • SeoulGoodman

    I’m Canadian, my mom was a figure skater. I’ve been following the sport for over 30 years. I loved the fact that the judges were most probably pissed off that they had no choice but to give excellent scores to Elvis Stojko (3 time world champion and two time Olympic silver medalist) despite the fact he was so clearly heterosexual in the tackiest possible way (check his “Bruce Lee” routine) because he skated like a MOFO.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivQ9Sb-PZEA

  • Arghaeri

    So your eyes were shut for the triple axle?

  • Sumo294

    I played a lot of pick-up hockey during high school and we would put our sticks on the ice and the girls would make the teams by pushing the sticks to one side–they actually were good at making the teams even. They would watch us play as they waited for their ice time–we in turn would watch them skate after we changed and ask them out on dates. The girls knew about hockey and we boys learned about proper edge landings on double axles. The smartest girls were the Russian girls–they always got the teams just right–best games were set up by those hockey loving gals.

  • redwhitedude

    It seems figure skating can never get the judging perfect.

  • vtwkang

    You’re just jealous

  • JMR

    Kind of makes you wonder when one of the judges is a criminal and the other has direct links to the Russian figure skating federation: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/sports/olympics/who-were-the-figure-skating-judges.html

    Nevertheless, I thought the Queen handled the situation with grace and comportment. She is a role model.

  • Sumo294

    What is amazing is the amount of goodwill Russia could of had if the bump had only been to silver instead of gold. The skating fans would have embraced that young girl and Russia would have had an instant goodwill ambassador that would have given them some seriously great PR. If you think Korean fans are crazy you have no idea how crazed the American figure skating community can get. Right now, the entire USA will simply look at that young girl and remember that the Olympics is rigged, corrupt and venal–they will understand you can skate an utterly flawless program at the height of your prowess and still somehow “lose”. The fans will never choose the Russian girl over Yuna–how shortsighted the Russians in power were.

  • Aja Aja

    I’m kind of sorry for that Russian girl now. Her win is tainted, and lot of people will be anti against her, and the next competitions she attends, will be scrutinized even more carefully for irregularities, including the judges (the non-Russian judges) who will be psychologically affected to give her lower marks than she really deserves. I would say her career is toast already.

  • Aja Aja

    what’s with this bigoted racist jab against Yuna Kim? As a matter of fact, she has donated lot of money to causes, including helping your country, Japan during the earthquake.

  • DC Musicfreak

    It wasn’t quite a perfectly constructed sentence (“befitting of being”), but I’m not any kind of grammar nazi — and certainly not with someone who is writing in a second language and who does not write for a living. I get what you were trying to say, and agree with the spirit of it, but the reason it didn’t work and triggered my unintentional irony meter was because once you mentioned “home country of Yuna Kim” this indicated South Korea — a country that is (quite rightly) world famous for anger management/sportsmanship issues on the Internet, and which had already dashed your pious wish at Sochi even before the Kim Yuna travesty. If you were actually being ironic above, I withdraw my comment.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Latest from the German press including more Witt:

    http://www.fr-online.de/olympia-2012/empoerung-nach-eiskunstlauf-geschenk—witt-fassungslos,16706324,26303354.html

    Witt says she was completely stunned and angry at the sport and that one shouldn’t be surprised that people turn away from the sport..

    «Ich war komplett fassungslos und sauer auf unseren Sport, da muss man sich nicht wundern, wenn sich die Leute abdrehen», sagte die viermalige Weltmeisterin der Nachrichtenagentur dpa in Sotschi. Witt sah die Olympia-Zweite Kim Yu-Na aus Südkorea vorn. Auch die Dritte Carolina Kostner aus Italien sei zu schlecht weggekommen.

    Der ehemalige Eiskunstläufer und ZDF-Moderator Rudi Cerne sprach von einem Fehlurteil: «Das hat für mich ein Geschmäckle.» Die französische Sportzeitung «L’Équipe» titelte «Skandal – die Punktrichter haben Russland das erste Einzelgold geschenkt, aber Adelina Sotnikowa hat es nicht verdient.» Das südkoreanische Blatt «Korea Times» fragte in der Freitagsausgabe polemisch «Skandal oder Eislauf?», der italienische «Corriere dello Sport» wertete das Urteil als «Unrecht».

    But I beg the stupid Korean mass and the Korean twittering twits to stay silent, for the love of Yuna Kim herself. Justice is what remains in people’s hearts *without* all the unnecessary national hoopla.

    한국분들, 제발 서명 운동이니, 외국 선수/사이트에 쫓아가서 (말도 안되는 영어로) 글 남기는 거 같은 거 자제해 주시길… 정말 도움 안됩니다. 이미 연아는 충분히 몫을 다했으니까, 한국분들이 가만히 있는게 도와주는 거니까… 그렇지 않아도 한국 국민 이미지를 깎아 내리지 못해 안달나있는 외국 애들이 더 날뜁니다…

  • djson1

    It made me really sad when I saw Yuna crying. Her reaction when her final score was read looked kind of happy…did she momentarily think she won or was that just an overly gracious forced smile? I couldn’t tell.

  • djson1

    What the hell are you talking about??

  • djson1

    “…my absolute lack of caring at all about the Olympics has drained any desire to wade into this one.”-

    Oh, but you HAVE waded in.
    Plus, it’s ok for “men” to follow women’s figure skating (some of the women are downright artistic, graceful, and sexy), just as long as we don’t care too much about the MEN’S program.

  • JW

    You’re posting the latter stuff on the wrong board. Go post it on daum agora!

  • djson1

    In the back of my mind, I was hoping that Yuna getting silver would motivate her to make one more comeback in Pyeongchang for gold redemption. But then I thought…what if she DID (which she most likely won’t), and she even won the gold there? Then the world might think the voting was swayed because it was in Korea. Oh, the timing just sucks.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    OMG, you still don’t get it? It’s my worst nightmare – not only am I being trolled by a prejudiced bigot who helps to perpetuate the internet stereotypes, but that he is obtuse as well. It used to be the case with Gerry..
    I was not being ironic. What my first sentence is setting the intro for is actually the linked Korean article (and my quick summary/translation of it, and yes and nobody is paying me to do these translations for this site of which I would guess about 90 percent have very little grasp of Korean, which means I am typing as I read, and often do not read twice what I type) in which Yuna herself is so gracious and great about the whole thing that I meant that Korea should act like the home country of such a person and *not make a song and dance* about it.
    You obviously didn’t read the whole sentence properly, let alone the rest of my comment before making such a prejudiced and blah comment, says a lot about you who can go spouting off against a nation.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    JW, I know, but I cannot be bothered. My commenting sphere is almost strictly restricted to TMH. Also, from my past experience, I know that there are some Koreans who lurk here and post things word by word on Daum etc. I remember one of my last posts and all the several hundred comments which followed was posted on some Korean website, someone attempting to translate it all into Korean.

    I know it’s also true of Japanese and Chinese websites, there’s a huge interest in what he said and what she said, being reported in each country’s main press, and that a lot more people are relying on social network media nowadays. Crowd reporting may not be a bad thing according to this article:

    http://onmedia.dw-akademie.de/english/?p=17991

  • bumfromkorea

    Just ignore him. Nothing but vitriol in this one… though I am genuinely worried about the Koreans around him, given the level of bitterness and unresolved anger issues that can be detected from this guy’s writing.

  • silver surfer

    Regardless of whether Kim Yuna deserved gold, I’m sick of people second-guessing judges’ decisions. If nationalism is going to triumph over sportsmanship every time, we may as well abolish the Olympics.

  • djson1

    No, because then they may just pick the one with the biggest butt. That’s bias too.

  • DC Musicfreak
  • djson1

    I recall NBC’s commentator, Sandra Bezic, excitedly saying towards the end of Yuna’s performance: “This is SPECTACULAR!”. She usually speaks positive of all skaters, but I don’t remember her being that excited about a routine before. Never mind all the technical scoring and yada yada for now…the bottom line is that Yuna’s performance was overall head and shoulders better and visually appealing than any of the others and yet she didn’t get the gold.

  • djson1

    I think it was still very important to her. She was just playing it down. That’s why she was crying when she got the silver.

  • DC Musicfreak

    Now you’re melting down and misusing more words, Yuna. Maybe YOU need to act graciously like your figure skating namesake.

  • Aja Aja

    In the interview she said she wasn’t thinking about the score. She also said if you expect too much, it’s always leads to a letdown. And in the past, she said that happened to her, when she thought she skated great, only to be let down by the score. She said she was thinking that it’s finally over, she was relaxed, and relieved that this is the end of all her past effort to get to where she was.

    It was nothing but positive gracious words from a person who was just glad she was able to compete in the event.

  • bballi bballi paradise

    Interestingly wasn’t Stojko’s achilles heel that his artistic scores lagged far behind his technical brilliance, leading to the two silver medals….kinda like a certain Russian who should be wearing silver right now imo

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    That was a really interesting read. Thanks!

    When asked about whether or not he could tell which scores Balkov and Shekhovtseva put down, Lease had an answer. “I believe they’re the ones most impressed by the imaginary rope pulling.”

    That cracked me up.

  • JW

    Nice article. This is the money paragraph for me.

    “With a score that high, judges are essentially saying that Sotnikova’s free skate (even with the error) is better than all her previous performances that came before it. And it also sends a message that without the error, Sotnikova’s 2014 Olympic free skate was the best in history. ”

    Fucking joke man.

  • djson1

    People only let nationalism triumph over sportsmanship when Fair and impartial officiating triumphs over nationalism.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Haha, somebody did mention the Mafia.
    Thank God it wasn’t a Korean.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/russian-figure-skater-adelina-sotnikovas-gold-medal-scores/story?id=22615761

    This is very damning indeed.

  • blakep

    Some people actually follow figure skating? And I thought my My Little Pony collection was lame-skis.

  • redwhitedude

    I see this week’s open thread as the Whiny edition.

    Hey at least this isn’t like theTonya Harding Nancy Kerrigan controversy.

    Both skaters put on a gold medal worthy performance.

  • redwhitedude

    Let’s say both put on a gold medal worthy performance.

  • redwhitedude

    Blah, blah, blah. I think both of them put on a gold medal performance it’s unfortunate that only one gets the gold medal. What is surprising is the margin of victory. Maybe the judges didn’t really see that miscue well.

  • redwhitedude

    Well she certainly was more polished and artistically superior.

  • redwhitedude

    Koreans are getting a taste of getting the short end when you are that competitive before reverting back to the days of Korean skaters just being slot fillers who constantly tumble in anonymity ranked god knows how far down.

  • http://www.askakorean.net/ The_Korean

    An international event in which athletes participate as representatives of nations ends up being nationalistic? Gasp!

  • JW

    Wow..did ya’ll watch the 500m Men’s short track final? Wow. Just wow. Mad skillz. The late start was intentional. His plan was to start *last*. And he still won easily. He’s a short track Monster. Don’t compare him to any up and coming anybody in the Korean team. It’s not even close!

  • Aja Aja

    Let me guess. Ahn doing the victory circle for Russia.
    I hear that Russia is eyeing at least three or four more Koreans who can’t be on the national team, to change citizenships to Russia.

  • Aja Aja

    That score sheet was just a complete farce. They’re making a mockery out of the sports.

  • JW

    Fine by me, as long as I get to see the best skaters in the next Olympics.

  • redwhitedude

    Dokdo is Korean! Oh wait wrong thread. That Gold medal is Korean!

  • redwhitedude

    Dam golddiggers!

  • wangkon936
  • wangkon936
  • djson1

    The Korean online “netizen” reactions are very embarrassing.And I hate that term: “netizen”…aren’t we all netizens if we use the internet? We should coin another term for the crazy fanatical ones. So, I heard they were blasting that English short track skater for the fall too. That’s just too much.

  • http://www.askakorean.net/ The_Korean

    Co-sign.

  • j95lee

    Most non Koreans are as outraged over this as they are with a blown call that cost a pitcher a perfect game. The indignation is there, but after a week, no one will really care. The umpire, his nation, and his family are safe from abuse.

  • j95lee

    A formal investigation into the matter should clear things up.

    But I’m assuming that the judge who was suspended for trying to fix the competition in Japan (ages ago) was cleared to resume his duties after meeting certain conditions, for whatever reason. He must have judged countless other competition since.

    It seems strange to me that someone married to a Russian skating federation is allowed to judge a performance by a Russian skater, but that is apparently allowed as well.

    Bribes and suspicious cash transfers aren’t that hard to find. But without such proof, these two judges can either throw up a wall of silence or offer some semi plausible explanation for Sotnikova.

    Or who knows, maybe they’ll confess in exchange for lighter penalties.

  • bigmamat

    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2014/02/sochi_olympics_figure_skating_russia_s_adelina_sotnikova_won_figure_skating.html

    This article in Slate discusses the change in the point system for judging figure skating and it’s ramifications.

    If you think Koreans are bad. Last week I was reading about the hateful comments from the Japanese about their own athletes. Evidently some Japanese think their athletes should reimburse the government/people for their training if they don’t bring home a medal. You begin to wonder why any young person would bother to even subject themselves to such pressure.

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    The correct term is nutizen.

  • wangkon936

    How about the Americans? They can’t throw as much money as the Russians, but they can at least dangle a green card in front of a Korean skater.

  • Aja Aja

    They already announced it, they will not review this case because there were no formal requests of official protests from anywhere (looking at Korea). The Korean ice skating committee already said, they will not launch a protest. The one million man petition doesn’t count. It’s over.

    In my opinion, I think the judging controversy is being fanned more by Western media, more than the Korean media which is more on the side of feeding off of what the Western media is saying. I wonder how much of this is more to do with the Western anti-Russian attitude and anti-Russian feelings in the West? We have heard nothing but negative comments about Russian games, and nothing good about it has been said. It’s been all negative, starting from day one at Sochi.

  • Aja Aja

    Ahn considered the green card, but with no financial stability to make a living, he declined. Money is still king.

  • felddog13

    I see the Katarina Witt comments and video have already been translated into Korean. One thing I’ll say about Witt’s comments: she herself was known as a skater who tilted towards artistry and aethetics over technical skill and athleticism (though obviously she was good enough in those areas to win 2 golds). In fact, in 1988 Calgary, her “Bolero” routine, while incredibly artistic, was considered so undemanding technically that the much more athletic American Debbie Thomas would have won the gold (I remember experts saying at the time) had she skated her normal routine–instead of completely crapping the bed with bad falls. So while Witt is most certainly an expert whose words should be considered carefully, so too should we remember she herself may be biased toward a particular style of skating.

  • chooNryusk

    How is it racist? Obviously you wouldn’t know racism if it hit you over the head.

  • chooNryusk

    “It’s been all negative, starting from day one at Sochi.”

    Kind of like how Pyeongchong 2018 will be aye?

  • PortaJohn

    The Russian was better.

  • PortaJohn

    Koreans are the worst losers in the world.

  • dawn

    Then how did Mao Asada, who had the highest base score (eight triple jumps, including a triple axel!) and landed all of her jumps (including the triple axel!!) perfectly, recieve 8 points fewer than the Russian, who had 7 jumps and landed on both feet on one of them? Also, Kim Yuna had much more diffcult routines in the non-jumping areas, and should have gotten a higher artistry score than Adelina. Figure skating is NOT just about landing jumps nicely.

    Even if Adelina did have a better performance than Yuna or Kostner, how could there be less than a 1/3 point difference between her Olympic score and Vancouver Yuna’s WR score? Even stranger, how did she jump up nearly 20 points from her previous best?

  • Aja Aja

    Why don’t you go jump off the building, asshole?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    A national stereotype – Russian judges at the Olympic figure skating. And it looks like giving anonymity to the judges was like handing over a box of firelighters to a convicted arsonist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Winter_Olympics_figure_skating_scandal

  • wangkon936

    Settle down there aja aja.

  • wangkon936

    How so?

  • wangkon936

    What… does that have to do with anything?

  • Dave

    This is fucking embarrassing. Firstly, grown men talking about figure skating as if they even have a clue about the sport. Secondly, can you imagine Koreans living in the US or and other country doing this kind of apologetic nonsense for a non-Korean?

    Pathetic. She lost, Get over it.

    Koreans are the worst losers in history, whine whine whine, fucking pathetic, and now a bunch of white-tards have followed on, “who can be the most Korea suck cock?”

  • wangkon936

    Uh oh…

    “Proof” of Russian home cooking?

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/s526x395/1606919_10151958368012335_2016628167_n.jpg

    One of the judges celebrating with the winner after the results were tallied.

  • wangkon936
  • ChuckRamone

    Karma is a fantasy.

  • wangkon936
  • redwhitedude

    Considering that this is the first time ever that Korea has had a world class figure skater it is uncharted water for Korea to end up on the short end of controversy. But I can understand why certain people feel like that.

  • redwhitedude

    Not really nutizen. They have right to express their displeasure at feeling that she was cheated out. It’s the first time they’ve felt like this.

  • redwhitedude

    It’s a shame that somebody didn’t get a gold considering both Adelina and Yuna put on quite a show. Unfortunately it was in the same competition and only one gets the gold.

  • redwhitedude

    Gasp! Nooooooooo!!!!!! US is stuck with him.

  • redwhitedude

    What makes you think Pyeongchang will be negative?

  • ChuckRamone

    Haha, that’s rich. The Olympics are the second-most nationalistic sporting event after the World Cup.

  • swiftlyhaste

    I find the conspiracy theory a bit unconvincing. I’m not saying it’s impossible but there just are too many things stacked against it under the current system.

    If you look at the numbers, the scores were pretty consistent in favor of Sotnikova. That’s after taking out the extreme ends and two random scores out of the 9 scores as mandated by the system. Which means now we’re in the conspiracy theory territory where Putin or someone else bought off virtually the whole judging panel. It’s not out of the realms of possibility and maybe there was some other political motive by the judges collectively that they somehow all came to agreement on lowering Kim’s score.

    The problem is, as with any conspiracy theory, it takes so many moving parts and there is hardly any evidence. Also even though the Korean web portals are busy running articles on NY Times’ writing on the controversy, most of them don’t bother to mention the article run by the very same NY Times that broke down the programs by the skaters in pictures and explained why the author of the article, an non-anonymous USA figure skating technical expert, thought Sotnikova beat Kim, in a much more technical manner than online experts or Katarina Witt have explained, which are mostly in the vein of “Kim is a beautiful skater”.

    Now it’s certainly very possible, and probably did happen, that Sotnikova got home court advantages in the points be it through loud crowd or just pressure on the judges but the spread was consistent enough and the gap was large enough that I don’t think it happened by random chance. The judges were all largely in agreement. That goes back to the conspiracy theory which, again, is possible but I haven’t seen any plausible evidence and if I am to at least partially believe that NY Times article mentioned earlier, Sotnikova’s win isn’t really as shocking as it looks; Yuna Kim sure looked graceful but the rough Sotnikova had more things going for her that earned what mattered, points.

    At the end this is a good fodder for those who believe figure skating really doesn’t belong in the Olympic games. Even with the heavily modified judging system that is much harder to game than the previous one, there are too many subjective factors and it’s not really avoidable since the subjectiveness beauty of the sports is what attracts many of the existing fans in the first place. No matter who wins, there will always be cries of fans who believe another skater was more “graceful” and “better”.

    What’s ironic is I also see many Korean fans who want figure skating gone from the Olympics. However without the glorious allure of the Olympics medals, figure skating will become a sideshow with extremely niche audience and all the accomplishments Kim has accumulated will be forgotten along with the sports.

    I’m one of “those guys” who think figure skating is a glorified dancing routine with circus theatrics with the wrapper of classical music that somehow invaded the Olympics culture. I’d rather see skaters perform jumps and spins while running against time or something and judge them against strict technical criteria without all the music and dances. The artistry and the athleticism of the skaters are unquestionably awesome but it’s not an Olympics sports.

  • Arghaeri

    LOL

  • Aja Aja

    ha ha ha…aren’t judges supposed to be unbiased?

    “Thanks judge for helping me out!”

    “You welcome!” hug hug kiss kiss, cry…

    This is just too funny.

  • redwhitedude

    If anybody thinks that Yuna was robbed after reading that article then Kostner was also robbed.

  • ChuckRamone

    Anyone who doesn’t know a lot about figure skating but has a strong opinion on this controversy has outed themselves as trolls. Good job, idiots.

  • bumfromkorea

    Per Dave, they’re just “white-tards” who wants to “most Korea suck cock”. Rapier wit, that.

  • Sumo294

    Kostner was robbed but that was expected by the adults. What caught the commentators by surprise was the two medal jump to gold. If Russia had given these guys a heads up and handed Rolex watches and vacations to Cabo before the vote then it would suppressed the stunned disbelief of even these hardened cynical skating commentators. They can ignore petty corruption–but corruption so bad that even an eight year old girl can it figure out–they cannot ignore for the sake of their own jobs and legacies.

  • sloppycho

    Sotnikova just walks out of the post-skate press conference just as Yuna starts to speak… talk about classy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OmCFxqU8eQ

  • sloppycho
  • smithington

    The KSU has already complained and the federation has said they’re going to investigate.

  • smithington

    You’d have a point if it was only Koreans complaining..

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    I see what you did there

  • BSDetector

    There’s a men’s program? I thought the only male involvement was for pairs? Is there mens single floor dancing in the summer games? Yeesh…

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    No matter the NY Times and their analysis, quite obvious she should have received the gold. I will say that as of last night, I was actually quite surprised that the nutizens weren’t being as, well, nutty, as they have been whenever a perceived slight against Korea in an international sporting event is alleged. I don’t feel like going over and looking at Naver comments right now though, as I’d like to entertain the idea for a bit longer that there are definite signs of a maturing internet community.

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    and just so it is clear, by ‘she’ I mean Yuna

  • kaizenmx

    This esl white man went full retard.

    LMFAO…

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    It’ll be interesting to see how she fares over the next few years.

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    guilty. Stayed up and watched it with my girls. Yuna is amazing to watch, she makes it all look so effortless.

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    said pretty much the same thing around the water cooler yesterday.

  • swiftlyhaste

    Interesting that you mention Stojko because he’s the one who vocally supported Sotnikova’s win, saying “Adelina was ready. Kim didn’t have enough technical ammunition.”

    Maybe it’s the identity crisis faced by figure skating. It can’t decide whether it wants to be a performance show or a true sports with rigid rules. But I’m biased

  • swiftlyhaste

    That’s difficult to believe given that there was an Italian judge and Kostner is from that country. The corruption was so bad that a judge from Kostner’s own country betrayed her and Italy?

  • DC Musicfreak

    The Korean coverage of this controversy I’ve seen has not been as strong as the Western reporting.

  • Aja Aja

    One judge out of nine who gives out normal fair score may not make as much difference as two judges who gives out much inflated scores which convolutes the total average score. If you look at the score sheets, that’s what happened here.

  • Aja Aja

    USA Today has another story that’s sure to draw more attention. It interviewed an anonymous Olympic figure skating official who said that the skating outcome was all pre-planned by Russia. And there were more than one Russian judge involved. There were also Russian technical judges who rated the difficulty of the routines.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2014/02/21/figure-skating-scandal-sochi-olympics-adelina-sotnikova-yuna-kim/5680717/

  • Aja Aja

    Source? The sources I read, the Korean skating union announced they will not request anything. The IOC also said the matter will not be reviewed. Yuna Kim also said she accepts the decision, so I don’t see how anyone can make this into an investigation without Yuna complaining and asking for investigation.

  • http://f5waeg.blogspot.com/ F5Waeg

    The more I think about her winning gold on technical merit, and reflect on the stereotypes of what that means in the Russian context, the more it makes sense that the gold went where it did.

  • DC Musicfreak

    At the very least, this episode can teach us what it’s like to be a voter in Putin’s Russia.

  • ChuckRamone

    Thanks for clearing that up, figure skating expert.

  • ChuckRamone

    It seems trolls can never stop trolling, even on topics about which they haven’t the slightest clue.

  • swiftlyhaste

    That’s not very plausible. The highest and lowest scores are discarded as with two other randomly chosen scores. Which means it’s really difficult for two rogue judges to produce an outcome like this. The scoring system was designed so that you cannot have another Salt Lake City.

    Looking at the scoresheet and the rules of the judging system, the only way for Russia to ensure Sotnikova’s win through bribery would’ve been buying off the entire judging panel, but that would’ve required the Italian judge to betray her own country not to mention judges from countries such as Canada, not really known for its love of Russia.

    As I’ve written elsewhere while it’s possible the judging panel was corrupt, I have not really seen any compelling evidence other than questionable circumstantial evidence.

  • http://www.xlgames.com/ Avaast

    Yawn.

  • redwhitedude

    Which is?

  • redwhitedude

    Given the reputation of naver and the manner that people cite it I would pass on it.

  • redwhitedude

    Let’s just give it a rest. The gold could have gone either way both skaters put up performances that would merit the gold. Heck some people argue that Yuna was robbed because she skated a cleaner program with no mistakes. If we follow that argument Caroline Kostner did put a pretty clean program too so it would be a three way argument. WTF! All three put on a terrific performance.

  • redwhitedude

    I’m no expert but I was regurgitating what the commentators were saying. I happen to agree with that however the gold medal could have gone either way since both put a gold medal worthy performance.

  • redwhitedude

    Who cares. Just ignore.

  • redwhitedude

    Now now. Yuna and Adelina now kiss and make up. lol

  • redwhitedude

    Its a yakuza- russian mafia job! lol!

  • ChuckRamone

    There’s no such thing as karma. It’s just a fantasy like “the meek shall inherit the earth.”

  • silver surfer

    Have you even heard of ‘the Olympic ideal’? The nations are *supposed* to be united in service to sport.

  • silver surfer

    They are, but that wasn’t how it was meant to be originally.

  • silver surfer

    They may have a good case this time, and they are far from the only ones to complain at other times too. Nevertheless.

  • Horace Jeffery Hodges

    Could anyone have lost with more grace than Kim Yuna?

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • redwhitedude

    At the end of the day Putin got the gold but lost his grip of ukraine. Not sure if that is a good trade off.

  • MARI

    I would check this out below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXvnv_a97U

  • ChuckRamone
  • MARI

    I would take a look at this clip. Took the words right out of my mouth!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXvnv_a97U

  • wangkon936

    Shame on you Chuck for linking an article that shows that some people’s favorite stereotypes are… wrong.

    Shame on you!

    Besides, these NYT writers don’t live in Korea, right?

  • ChuckRamone

    You know what’s funny? The only person I saw discussing the figure skating kerfuffle on Facebook was a gyopo Korean guy and he had posted a link to the NYTimes article that explained why the Russian chick won. And in his comments were other Koreans talking about how they thought the nationalists were being ridiculous. Oh well. Keep trolling, Marmot’s Holers.

  • RElgin

    Katarina Witt is one of my favorite women who happens to skate.

  • bumfromkorea

    The Koreans must have bought the NYT staff off. You know how these fucking Koreans are like. ;)

  • Sumo294

    Brave soul . . . poor woman she will never work another international skating gig again in her life for speaking the truth.

  • Aja Aja

    I suggest you read Wangkon’s link above, it perfectly explains why your theory is flawed and incorrect.

  • pawikirogii

    bum inspired me with his chengyu,

  • bumfromkorea
  • swiftlyhaste

    Yes I’ve already read Wangkon’s link a few times since it’s everywhere, and it doesn’t “perfectly explain” it at all. It’s full of conjectures and wishy-washy evidence instead of hard facts. If you look at the actual scoring sheet, Sotnikova scores higher with most judges, not just the top two. Which the writer makes no effort to explain, instead filling up the article with more Russian conspiracy theories.

    The rest of the article is more of conjecture backed by the likes of Dick Button’s tweets. Is Dick Button considered a technical specialist in judging? Does he have qualifications and participate in capacity related to the judging system? Has he shown any technical expertise in this regard with the new system? Unless he meets those criteria, his comments are just as valid or invalid as Stojko’s and Lipinski’s.

    If that article was the crème de la crème in objectively proving the conspiracy, I now have even more doubts .

  • j95lee

    The article is a little light on actual evidence that the SK is really over this issue. We all know what happened to Elise Christie.

    But yeah, the reaction seem more subdued compared to the past. It probably helps that Yuna wasn’t wrongly DENIED a medal, which happened to a number of Korean Olympic athletes. Shin Aram is the most recent.

    Victor Ahn’s redemptive victories also softened the blow. I’m surprised how much Koreans embraced him, to be honest. Although, had he “defected” to Japan or America, then who knows.

  • Sumo294
  • DC Musicfreak

    There were plenty of Koreans discussing it in my wide circle. In my reading of (English language) social media and comments on media articles, I eliminated obvious Korean and obvious Russian names, and I reckon that opinion was about 3:1 or even 4:1 in support of the idea that Yuna was robbed. And this was before the highly collusive structure of the judging panel was widely known.

  • Mike

    Don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Nothing here that Koreans aren’t familiar with (See Jones, Seoul Olympics). Move along now.

  • wangkon936

    Yeah, I’m gonna take a wild guess and say this guy isn’t Korean:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4LLdQN2_g

  • http://www.danielkberson.com Daniel Berson

    I apologize for the double comment – just realized this is the better thread for this.. I made a follow-up video to the one I made in 2010 (“Kim Yuna Fan Watches Gold Medal Performance”) about my experience watching her skate in the final in Sochi. I thought you all might enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7RfwPzNckU

    (I had to re-edit the video using footage from a non-Olympic event because the first one I posted got taken down by the IOC. Hopefully this one survives :))

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Im not Korean, dumbass.

  • fuc58252

    Isn’t the internet great. It allows shitheads like yourself to say shit that would, in real life

    get your head cracked open.

    Hopefully you’ll suffer the same fate fucking cunt.

    Please turn to the loaded gun in your drawer, put it in your mouth, and pull the trigger,

    blowing your brains out. You’ll be doing the whole world a favor. Shitbag.

    I would love to smash your face in until it no longer resembled anything human, faggot.

    Die painfully okay? Prefearbly by getting crushed to death in a

    garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a

    pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach

    sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped

    out of their sockets. Fucking bitch

    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I’d cut

    your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I’d

    cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter.

    Hopefully you’ll get what’s coming to you. Fucking bitch

    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It’d be hilarious to see you

    begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head,

    leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. Faggot

    Shut the fuck up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut

    to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You’re dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I’ll f ucking

    kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the

    hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzxGOFye7Hs&feature=related

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, cunt

  • kaizenmx

    In other news, japan blames Mao’s failure on Korea.

  • redwhitedude

    Whoa! Did I insult you?

  • ex_commander

    Wrong. They are saying that Mao won the gold. The textbooks will be out soon. LOL.

  • Luderick

    ever heard of Santa?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Did I insult you?

  • redwhitedude

    You did call me a “dumbass”.

  • whuddyasack

    Brilliantly put and unstoppably convicting. I’m so borrowing this quote.

  • whuddyasack

    Yawn… What’s truly embarrassing is how perfectly the words “whiner”, “fucking pathetic” and “worst loser” describe you. All while you are accusing Koreans of being this.

  • djson1

    Funny, I was actually wondering if there was a follow-up to the one made in 2010. =D

  • djson1

    If anybody is still reading this thread, I thought this was interesting (albeit a US poll):

    http://www.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=sportnation&pollId=4198873

  • JW

    Of course, that poll can be used both in favor and against Yuna Kim. In favor because of obvious reasons. Against because it may be indicative of confirmation bias (since she is the defending champion who is widely believed to have skated the best ever performance in vancouver)

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Thats no an insult. if I wanted to insult you do you think I would stop at “dumbass”? Why did you bring up Korean hockey since you know I am not Korean?

  • redwhitedude

    No I did not know you were not korean.

  • Aja Aja
  • WMunny

    This one made me lol

    이거놓으시게:

    Don’t suck up to her too much. There should be limits to either bashing or sucking up. Shit, sure, Yuna is our goddess. Like she fucking casts spells from the sky. She looks like my cousin who’s fucking mean. It fucking sucks, fuckers.

  • Del

    No. The US women’s hockey team. Never seen such a big sob session in my life.

  • Del

    No. White guys from any country are.

  • wangkon936

    That movie was awesome. Bobby Downey played a pretty good black man too.

  • some843

    I will say that the SK internet users who spammed websites or Twitter or petitions or whatever regarding Olympics sporting results are clearly wrong, are trolling or possibly mentally ill. Why this group of people would get so worked over women’s sports, in particular, is positively mind boggling. These people need to grow up, shut up, and learn to accept sporting losses with dignity and grace (by not saying anything at all if they have nothing positive to say). It is a minority of people that engage in such trolling, remember that.

    However, the hypocrisy of Koehler, Americans, and others who post here is hilarious. Example: go to Yahoo Message Boards, which I frequent. Yahoo MB posters tend to be very conservative, Republican white Americans. You will find thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of comments which generally are: anti-Obama, anti-gay, anti-black, and anti-Hispanic. Example: when Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty was suspended from his show by A&E for airing his controversial views about homosexuality and blacks, Yahoo MB posters went crazy with their homophobia and racism. Any post regarding Obama becomes a lightning rod for racist Obama posts, comparing him to a monkey, for example.
    Even message boards like IMDB (movie website) went crazy with racist posts after ’12 Years a Slave’ won the Best Picture Oscar. I saw the n word used several times. In the UK, black English footballer Stan Collymore was exposed on Twitter to death threats, the n word, and racism after he publicly questioned whether a footballer pretended to be injured to get a penalty.
    Even what the SK internet users (who clearly were wrong, I repeat) did is very similar to what happens on this blog and many other SK-blogs. This blog brings up every negative aspect of SK life (politics, sports, Olympics, international relations), and then the disgruntled expats, the people who hate SK for whatever reason – pounce. There is a ton of SK bashing that goes on, and the comments on this website and other similar blogs are very toxic at times. This is not a news website; this is an outlet for angry, pissed people to anonymously bitch and complain, and the admins encourage that by what they post. This reality is that trolls come with the territory of the internet and social networking, whether in SK or the USA or Europe.