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Canadian accused of sex with minor in Cambodia may have molested minors in Korea, too: report

Remember how we mentioned a long-time expat here recently got busted in Cambodia for allegedly paying a 14-year-old boy for sex?

Well, according to John Power in Groove, this story might be worse. Much worse:

A former native English teacher in Korea currently facing charges of paying a 14-year-old boy for sex in Cambodia was previously arrested in Seoul on suspicion of fondling a boy and had a history of sexual activity with minors, according to former friends and a recorded conversation.

If the allegations made in the report are true, it would mean a lot of folk really dropped the ball here, including the cops (“I overheard cops laughing about who was going to have to talk with the foreigner”) and possibly the foreign community of Haebangchon:

Savoy added that the allegations against V**** were widely known among foreigners in Haebangchon.

“People talked indignantly but did nothing. I’m excluding a few people from this, including myself as well as anyone else who actually reacted towards a solution, but the general response seemed to be that the shock was public property while justice was an unrelated taboo,” he said in an email.

Why would justice be such a “taboo” in this case?

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • seouldout

    Jeez, people knew and did nothing?!? Horrific if true.

  • seouldout

    Christ, the Canadian embassy was notified and it did nothing?!?

    I should add this Korean age-of-consent problem needs to be corrected post haste.

  • redwhitedude

    Good grief!
    This guy needs to be put away like Ariel Castro.

  • seouldout

    And if there are other heinous crimes still handled as torts, i.e. person injured by person (a private crime), rather than crimes. i.e. state injured by person (public crime), that ought to be sorted out too.

  • Benjamin Wagner

    S. Korea still hasn’t learned that AIDS & drugs tests don’t catch foreign pedophiles it’s leads from foreign teachers that catch foreign pedophiles. Doesn’t work though if those leads aren’t followed up by police.

  • Aja Aja

    Wow, you’re telling me he’s the same guy that appeared on the show “Surprise” many times back in the 2006 to 2010?

  • wangkon936

    The better answer may be for Korea to really understand that it doesn’t need English as much as it thinks it does, hence it doesn’t need as much human resources directed to fulfilling this artificial need.

  • redwhitedude

    But that would be blaming this on the whole ESL thing which is unfair to vast majority of people who do their job without being such criminals. The problem in that case is the proper screening and acting on problems ASAP.

  • seouldout

    Wow, what a stupid comment.

  • cmxc

    Koreans only care about issues that cause them to lose face internationally. If there was no international pressure for Korea to conform to international standards with regard to underage sex, Koreans would not care at all about this issue. Remember, recent reports have strongly suggested that Koreans are the largest consumers of underage sex services in South East Asia.

  • redwhitedude

    Well that is motivation to get their act together. I am interested to see stats about who are the people who solicit underage sex in SE asia before pointing fingers at anybody who tends to do that the most.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    As opposed to foreigners, who would rather let a child molester operate in their midst than “lose face”?

    Damn, sweeping generalization really are fun!

  • cactusmcharris

    WK,
    That’s rather short-sighted, don’t you think? If most foreigner crime can be solved / perp apprehended by having a working knowledge of the language of the majority of the foreigner(s) involved, and that’s almost certainly the case with English, how is this need artificial?

  • cmxc

    If one reads the Groove piece, it is clear that foreign English teacher associates of the guy go out of their way to take action and try to stop this guy from harming or having the opportunity to harm other children. Attempts are made to go to the Korean police, to work through the Canadian embassy, confrontation, email confrontation, etc. There was no effort made by foreigners to avoid losing face.
    Contrast that with Korean culture.
    In Korea, how many friends have gone out of their way to turn in to the authorities or make sincere efforts to block a friend who was having sexual contact with someone underage?
    In Korea much more pressure is made to silence or blame the victim.
    I do not condemn Korea for its efforts to improve. I only wish they had made more earnest efforts earlier and without foreign pressure given the history of sexual abuse to be found if one so much as scratches the surface here in Korea.

  • wangkon936

    What’s wrong with the logic? The vast majority of non-military foreigners, who also have far more access to young people that a labor migrant or military personnel, are those who come here to teach English, correct?

    I’m not saying to limit those people from coming in or give them mass AIDS testing. I’m asking society to reevaluate their need for English instruction, which the vast majority of Koreans do not need to operate their jobs. This would be a very natural, non-discriminatory way to limit the number of these people who come into the country. Many of these people sound like they don’t even enjoy their time in Korea. Wouldn’t this be like doing them a favor?

  • wangkon936

    I think you are misunderstanding my response to Mr. Wagner. I further expand on my thoughts with my comment to cactusmcharris.

  • redwhitedude

    The motivation to reevaluate whether ESL programs are needed should be independent of criminal acts. If you use this criminal act as motivation to reevaluate ESL programs to cut it down in size then it comes across as if you are blaming the whole thing on ESL.

  • wangkon936

    Again, I am thinking like an economist.

    The economic value of English instruction in Korea? Very small.

    Smaller population of overseas English language instructors, who are incidentally majority male and of peak reproductive and sexual activity age, would naturally mean fewer sexual crimes committed by foreigners.

    Seriously, what’s wrong with this logic?

  • wangkon936

    Western society has more experience with sexual abuse as a sociological problem and thus have better laws and awareness. This isn’t to ding Westerners or Western countries in any way. However, I don’t think one should ding Korea for coming to better awareness. One must remember Western societies have and “nuclear” families longer than Korea.

  • cactusmcharris

    I didn’t read into that from your first statement, but from your response below to redwhitedude I see you were writing from an economic perspective.

    As a side note, it’s good to see Koreans coming here to Kamloops (among other places in Canada, I’m sure) to spend a year working. Working on one’s English where English is spoken seems to be the best way to learn English.

  • redwhitedude

    In fact you are making a decision based on people that are more likely to commit a crime. Should we risk it or not? I am not sure that is a good way to go about it.

    Just look at the English instruction whether it is worth it or not.

  • rowan

    “The vast majority of non-military foreigners, who also have far more
    access to young people that a labor migrant or military personnel, are
    those who come here to teach English, correct?”
    Actually the vast majority of non-military foreigners are the Asian workers, and spouses who far outweigh the ESL teachers.

    “The economic value of English instruction in Korea? Very small.”
    I would also say the economic value is significant. It is a large industry, and what better way to measure the value of something than the market price, and size of the market?

    maybe not completely relevant to the conversation, but that never stopped me making a comment in the past…

  • Bob Bobbs

    Talk about damning with faint praise.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Western society has more experience with sexual abuse as a sociological problem

    - No. Really, we haven’t. Ding.

  • Bob Bobbs

    ‘ In Korea, how many friends have gone out of their way to turn in to the authorities or make sincere efforts to block a friend who was having sexual contact with someone underage?’

    -None. Ever. You are the only person in Korean history to have thought of doing that.

    That being said:

    ’41 or 115 male high school students kidnapped and raped three middle-school and two high-school girls.’ ‘A police officer was alleged to have told the victims they were “embarrassing his hometown…’
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miryang_gang_rape

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    Actually the vast majority of non-military foreigners are the Asian workers, and spouses who far outweigh the ESL teachers.

    More numerous than the Asian factory workers, by far, are the ethnic Koreans who hold foreign citizenship and are therefore counted as “foreigners” for statistical purposes.

  • wangkon936

    Trust me. You guys have.

  • Bob Bobbs

    “People talked indignantly but did nothing. I’m excluding a few
    people from this, including myself as well as anyone else who actually
    reacted towards a solution, but the general response seemed to be that
    the shock was public property while justice was an unrelated taboo,” he
    said in an email.

    - A lot of people in HBC work illegally all the time because they either violate the hell out of their E-2/E-1 or whatever F series they are being issued now- or don’t have degrees at all, just do privates and fly in and out of Incheon every three to six months. Like…a lot. They are therefore nervous about talking to cops at all, only speak English and have few pursuits other than getting drunk (or high) and complaining about the locals. He wimped out on handling this guy. He had a friend who was, um, off the rails in Haebangchon. I don’t think he did enough to make sure this guy was stopped. The reason ‘justice was an unrelated taboo’ was because this clown and
    the rest of his loser friends couldn’t write or explain their way out of
    a wet paper bag. You don’t ‘react towards solutions.’ How can shock be ‘public property’? What does ‘unrelated taboo’ mean? His understanding of ethics is as weak as his understanding of English composition. As for Scott, I hope he gets what he deserves.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Are you saying that ‘Western’ (whatever that means in this context) people have just acknowledged it more, or that they are more prone to it? The latter propostion is the subtext I find hard to ignore in your postings. Korean cave people were just as perverted as Western cave people. And I thought Korean families had written the book on ‘nuclear’ families, if by that term you mean three or so generations living under one roof. And just what is a ‘postmodern population’?

  • wangkon936

    Wouldn’t these people (including Korean Chinese), including “labor migrant” which I had mentioned in my earlier comment?

    What differentiates English teachers from most other foreigners is their relative youth and daily interaction with young people (in classrooms). This makes them especially susceptible (perhaps vulnerable?) to sexual crimes more than other foreigners.

  • Bob Bobbs

    What differentiates them from Korean teachers is that the Westerners are actually punished when they rape kids. Koreans are just sent to schools in other parts of the city. Stop painting pictures of white guys (And it’s always the white guys you’re pissed off about, isn’t it? Koreans won’t hire black, yellow or brown ‘Natives’. Well, they do- but that would screw up your narrative.) molesting defenceless Korean kids to satisfy your sick fantasies. Start urging the Korean government to uphold its own child protection laws. Start demanding foreign teachers be certified teachers, if you can afford it. But, you know, that just won’t help. Lots of sickos get B.Ed. degrees. Does English have a ‘minimal value’ in Korea? If that’s true, it’s a damn shame that tens of thousands of young Koreans are spending trillions of won studying it at home and clogging up the bars of downtown Vancouver every damn night. They seem to want to speak English. Well, sort of.

  • wangkon936

    You are completely misunderstanding me and totally taking it the wrong way.

    I am not saying or implying that Westerners are more prone to sexual crimes. What I am saying is that Western society has modernized faster over a longer course of time than Korea, thus there is greater “awareness” of sexual crimes. Is there greater frequency of sexual crimes in Western countries? Perhaps, but I think only because the nuclear family is more advanced and more prevalent because of the, how shall we say? Maturity of Western societies.

    Could Korea come to the same “awareness” of sexual crimes as the West? I don’t know. A part of me hopes not, but I’m not optimistic. Modernization, although providing many benefits, tends to discombobulate the family structure, at least as it is traditionally defined.

  • wangkon936

    “Stop painting pictures of white guys (And it’s always the white guys you’re pissed off about, isn’t it? Koreans won’t hire black, yellow or brown ‘Natives’. Well, they do- but that would screw up your narrative.) molesting defenceless Korean kids to satisfy your sick fantasies”

    When did I ever do this? When was I ever “pissed off” about white guys?

  • redwhitedude

    I don’t think wangkon was intending to be racist. I don’t agree with his thinking which is linking crime with whether ESL programs are worthwhile. It should just be looked at whether it is worthwhile in terms of things like how useful is english proficiency for most people.

  • Bob Bobbs

    In 2003, I lived in Bundang. Around that time there were a couple of guys who built a fake taxi, picked up girls, raped and murdered them and buried their bodies near the Phoenix Park ski resort. Any society where that sort of thing happens is not one that should be pointing figures at other societies and suggesting that the problem is foreign. When I think of the term ‘awareness of sexual crimes’, I think of how to stop it. You seem to see it as a blueprint. Your theory of ‘modernization’ seems to imply that the industrial revolution caused sexual abuse. Trust me, it was there all along. Korea was not a pure society where children were safe before the evil blue-eyed modernizers came along. Trust me.

  • pawikirogii

    man, you are frickin dumb!

  • Bob Bobbs

    How’s the manufacturing kiddy-porn business these days, you cockroach?

  • wangkon936

    “I don’t think wangkon was intending to be racist.”

    That is absolutely correct. I am an American happily living in a largely post-racist society. People here are way too sensitive. I’m amazed I have to explain myself. Makes me wonder if they really have anything to be upset at all if an ajeossi is “looking at them” a certain way. Seriously, what’s up with some of you people?

  • Bob Bobbs

    It is racist to imply that Westerners abuse children more frequently than Koreans. That’s what you just said.

  • wangkon936

    Bob,

    In Korea you are a minority. Somewhere along the line you seemed to have forgotten that. Crimes committed by minorities get more attention in their host countries than crimes committed by natives. Is that fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.

  • wangkon936

    Where?

    Here? http://www.rjkoehler.com/2014/01/28/canadian-accused-of-sex-with-minor-in-cambodia-may-have-molested-minors-in-korea-too-report/#comment-1221289966

    I said “perhaps.” That is definitely, most positively not the same as “Westerners abuse children more frequently than Koreans” which you essentially attributed to me saying. But the truth of the matter is that I said nothing of the sort.

  • Bob Bobbs

    you are a minority

    - Tell that to the 21 kids I fathered in Korea.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Koreans are, perhaps, the biggest dissemblers on Earth. Perhaps.

  • wangkon936

    Wilt Chamberlain once said he had sex with 20,000 women. His teammates reacted to that by indicating that Wilt often flat out lies.

  • wangkon936

    You are so painfully looking for a Korean to verbally fight against. It’s not even funny. However, I am not one of them. I do not represent everything you are obviously so frustrated about Korea and Koreans. I am sorry I can’t be that guy. I’m an American in both passport and in mind. Well, more Southern Californian than a lot of the Southern and Mid-Western types that seem to frequent this blog. Anyways, you will have to find this Korean that you hate so much and want to pour all your frustrations on somewhere else and please stop being so freak’in sensitive to everything I say.

  • Bob Bobbs

    It’s my innate sexual promiscuity. I read about it in the Joongang Ilbo. Thanks, Korea!

  • wangkon936

    “Asian workers” is included in what I mention as “labor migrant.”

    “I would also say the economic value is significant.”

    Well, in terms of it being an industry, yeah, it’s big. However, I don’t think it adds a lot of value to Korea. Korea spends a lot on English education and gets very little out of it. Is it the fault of the English teachers. I don’t think so. I actually blame it on the Koreans. Many Koreans sign up for instruction to put some number of hours on their resume, for example.

    However, do as many Koreans who go to learn English really need to know English? Will it help most Koreans in their jobs? Probably not. It’s probably just something to help them look more competitive to their peers on their resumes. Money saved from expending into English education can be rediverted to other more useful pursuits like learning a language they will be more likely to use like Mandarin or Japanese (simply because these countries are a lot closer to Korea) or in a vocational skill. Sometimes I think all the money Koreans pour into learning English for some hazy future benefit is just a big giant sunk cost.

    Besides, as I said before, wouldn’t this do many of you a favor? Considering how often many of you complain about Korea, it just seems you people are very very unhappy there. Don’t you guys wanna go back home?

  • Jason Lindley

    The saddest thing is that it’s rare for paedophiles to essentially SCREAM for help. Through his actions this Vadim guy was basically begging to get caught…

  • rowan

    Interesting. Although if they are ethnically Korean then they aren’t real foreigners……

  • brier

    I don’t understand the ‘especially susceptible’ remark. Are you saying they can’t but help commit deviant crimes in the when confronted with Korean youth? What gives for the writing of such bunk?

  • lex parsimoniae

    Your logic is sound; however, stating that there is little value in English instruction would (and should) strike fear in those who make a living at it.

  • Horace Jeffery Hodges

    “Wilt Chamberlain once said he had sex with 20,000 women.”

    Obviously untrue — no bed is large enough for 20,000 women!

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • DC Musicfreak

    Western societies have been democratic longer, have more robust NGOs that focus on the issue, more solidly established human rights norms, more competent police and legal authorities, a more professional media and fewer taboos. Episodes like the one on this post always expose these weaknesses in Korea and we can hope they can be a wake-up call.

  • DC Musicfreak

    I don’t disagree that Korea needs to reexamine its priorities when it comes to English education to address the distortions and waste this English fever creates. But doing it in the name of combatting the relatively rare pedophile is a bit like killing a rabbit with a nuclear weapon. In the case of this Canadian, it looks like better police work in Yongsan would have made all the difference in the world.

  • j.kimchi

    Yet more dirty salary men foreigners in Korea doing shit. Man the HBC and Kyunglidan are cesspools of filth.

  • aligner

    But if all these unhappy foreigners were not living in Korea, what would you do with all the time you spend now digging up articles and manufacturing ideas about the fictional Korean spinning around in YOUR head? What would you do to fill the void?

    There are tens of thousands of Korean Americans living in Korea – working for Korean and western firms. Only at Samsung and its subsidiaries you can find hundreds of them. They have interesting stories to tell too, but it is funny that I have never met one that thinks like you.

    But according to your logic, one could ask why these Koreans bother coming to Korea when so many have such a hard time of it. According to your logic they must be losers too.

  • Bob Bobbs

    You would know.

  • Bob Bobbs

    He’s an economic migrant who hates economic migrants.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Yes. Yes, he is.

  • wangkon936

    I am getting rather intolerant of comments that say nothing but take unwarranted character stabs at me. I do not do the same.

  • Arghaeri

    Hmm Ben says police should do their jobs and follow up leads and arrest perpetrators, and you say nah let them carry on being inept, let’s just stop learning English instead.!!! Great move!!

  • wangkon936

    Aligner,

    I meet the best kind of Koreans to boaster your cause. I meet Koreans who voluntarily leave Korea to try to make it in another country. I am in daily interaction with them. Unlike many of you, I can speak to them in their native language. I am even related to some of them. Who would be the best people to talk about how “bad” Korea is than those who have voted with their feet to leave?

    I also meet many Korean Americans who go to Korea often on business or have worked for large Korean companies. They all have complaints about Korea and Korean society, but none that I’ve met are as vitriolic as many of the non-Korean commenters here because they have a better awareness of Korean society because they speak the language and were raised in that society since childhoood. I believe anyone who thinks they can give accurate social commentary without understanding the society’s culture and language are exceedingly ignorant at best and neocolonialist at worse.

    Mr. Aligner, let me tell you the main difference between a Korean migrant to American and or other parts of the Anglosphere and people like you. I’ve found most Korean economic migrants to America, if not the rest of the Anglosphere, generally appreciative of the opportunity that the host country is affording them. Generally more nationalphilc of their host country. As a group, they don’t constantly bitch about the land, norms, culture and people of the host country while at the same time gleefully taking their money. A lot of outward “much obliged” with a lot more inward disdain and disrespect.

    It’s disgusting. You know what’s the saddest thing? People like you don’t know how disgusting it looks to people outside your “group.”

  • wangkon936

    I never said “let’s just stop learning English.”

    I think I said that Korean society should adopt a more rational approach to how “widespread” English education should be.

  • Arghaeri

    So you’re proposing they understand don’t need English as much as they think, but carry on full throttle regardless.

    And whey to miss the point that you actually proposed that you’d rather they do this than have police following leads and arresting the perpetrators.

  • tinyflowers

    I’m not against ESL education in general, but the fact that even low quality individuals like Bob Bobbs and Quincy Black can get jobs teaching English in Korea appears to support Wangkon’s notion that the ESL industry has gotten out of control. It’s time to clean up the mess.

  • Arghaeri

    That’s questionable, since evn in china & japan theres a good chance they’ll be using English as the medium for communication in travel & in business.

  • Arghaeri

    Citation please – what research shows this, as opposed to acknowledging same?

  • wangkon936

    Yes, but does 50% of their populations need to be conversant in English? Probably not.

  • Arghaeri

    One moment you are all American western guy culturally Californian, and the next it’s “you western guys” have a problem And you wonder why people say you have a racist slant.

  • wangkon936

    The caveat is that I would readily admit that part of the problem is with Koreans. 50% or even 30% of the Korean population does not need to know English. It is artificially high demand. It is a bubble.

  • aligner

    I think you are projecting a bit. I know Korean quite well, maybe better than you, and I would never brag about the money I made in Korea.

    I have met many Koreans and Korean Americans in work and social settings over many years in Korea, and have also had long conversations with Koreans on business trips to Europe and the United States about their impressions of the countries. You personally have not had such a broad range of experiences. This does not mean, however, that you cannot make valid points at times about Korea.

    But, all right – I get your point though. I will try not to make inflammatory generalizations about Korea that are unwelcome to some people here (but of course, you will still not like a lot of what I write I imagine).

    But can you promise then to stop projecting, and basing all your arguments on what I write here, solely on what I wrote in the past?

  • wangkon936

    “… stating that there is little value in English instruction would (and should) strike fear in those who make a living at it.”

    I know, but a little gratitude never hurt anybody.

  • wangkon936

    “I think you are projecting a bit. “

    It is a little bit of an odd feeling when the shoe is on the other foot, huh?

    “… can you promise… to stop… basing all your arguments on what I write here, solely on what I wrote in the past?”

    I don’t know. It depends on what you will write in the future, I suppose.

  • tinyflowers

    Exactly. I not only question the usefulness of widespread English education, I question its effectiveness. Out of the 50% of students who study ESL, how many actually come out of it with any real proficiency? How many are able to make use of it in a professional setting? Korea isn’t reaping the benefits of widespread English education.

    I’m sure there are some good teachers out there, but in general the quality of English education in Korea is extremely low, largely due to the fact that it’s staffed by bottom feeders like our friend Bob Bobbs. That of course goes back to the artificially high demand creating a pool of previously unemployable, poorly qualified applicants.

  • wangkon936

    “… next it’s “you western guys” have a problem…”

    1) Being bi-cultural is a hard thing for people like you to grasp. Honestly it is a bit hard to explain too. I can move in and out of cultures, however I can’t always choose when to move in and out of two different cultures.

    2) I am American, but I am not British, Australian, New Zealander, South African, Irish or Canadian. Thus, sometimes I use the terms “western” or “anglosphere.”

    3) I’ve never spoken about race. I’ve spoken in terms of cultural spheres. You can be white, black, brown or yellow and still be within the the “western” or “anglo” cultural sphere, no? Other people assume I’m talking about race. Those that do most often miss my point.

  • redwhitedude

    I think he misphrased it. The foreign ESL crowd tends to be concentrated on certain demographic of the foreign population. It could be that age group is more prone to committing crimes in general. However I think a better screening process is in order.

  • wangkon936

    “you actually proposed that you’d rather they do this than have police following leads and arresting the perpetrators.”

    Did I? Where?

    Maybe I believe they should do both? I don’t know. I don’t believe I took a definite stance on the law enforcement angle.

    However, since you asked… In my country I am worried by the increased paramilitary nature of law enforcement. I don’t always believe more policing is better. But, if it’s necessary, then I would acquiesce to more of my tax dollars going there. However, I would also look at other alternatives than increased policing. Decreasing the number of lower quality migrants that come into a country, through systemic change, would be one of the options I would look at.

  • wangkon936

    Mr. Bobbs,

    Please don’t speak for me. I am more than capable of speaking for myself.

  • wangkon936

    As I said before… lowering the demand to the Koreans who need English language instruction the most (i.e. for direct professional reasons) will increase the amount of money devoted to English language instruction and improve the quality of instructors.

  • redwhitedude

    Given how things are going it is very unlikely you will succeed in lowering demand. Unless you want a campaign which people will read as bashing English. Instead restrict it even more make it extremely selective. Undoubtedly some of these people who can’t get selected will end up going abroad for English if they want it that badly.

  • wangkon936

    brier,

    Are you taking what I said in the proper context?

    Here, I will put it back into the proper context for you:

    “What differentiates English teachers from most other foreigners is their relative youth and daily interaction with young people (in classrooms). This makes them especially susceptible (perhaps vulnerable?) to sexual crimes more than other foreigners.”

    I don’t think anywhere in that statement is me saying that English teaching expats are more “prone” to sexual crimes against kids. They are around them more due to their jobs. Thus, if any of them have those deviant tendances, they will, by nature of their occupation, have more opportunities to act on those deviant tendances. Now, a migrant worker from Bangladesh or a CEO from Germany may also have those tendances, but given their occupation, and their lack of interaction with young people, will have less opportunities to act on them. This makes the English teaching expat crowd more “vulnerable” to bad publicity on sexual crimes. The world “vulnerable” is something I also have in the quoted statement. Please ready my statements fairly and holistically. Thank you.

  • redwhitedude

    I think you misphrased whatever you were trying to say.

  • wangkon936

    What exactly did I misphrase?

  • wangkon936

    Wait a minute. You are the one who specifically used the word “prone.” I think brier is mixing what you said with what I said.

  • redwhitedude

    First of all you started off by saying that english demand needs to be tempered on the context of this original article of a sex criminal.

    Then you are saying that ESL teachers are more prone to commit crimes or something to that effect.

    I think that is the wrong way to ago about it.

  • redwhitedude

    He must have cherry picked my word since I said it in the context that ESL tends to be of a specific demographic that could be more inclined to commit any sort of crime such as shoplifting and so forth.

  • wangkon936

    “He must have cherry picked my word…”

    That isn’t the first time that’s happened… :P

  • redwhitedude

    You were taking the flak from your wording. I wasn’t though.

  • wangkon936
  • redwhitedude

    Not convincing. Are you saying that they behave themselves back in their respective countries but once they get out they let themselves go?

  • wangkon936

    No. That’s not what I’m saying! This is so frustrating.

    Perhaps the key is here:

    “Now, a migrant worker from Bangladesh or a CEO from Germany [who would be working in Korea] may also have those tendances, but given their occupation, and their lack of interaction with young people, will have less opportunities to act on them.”

    What’s been added in brackets is to amplify the original intent of my statement for clarification purposes. So, I believe it isn’t where they are from. It’s what their occupation exposes them to. Is that a little more helpful?

  • hoju_saram

    I actually agree wuth wangkon, (about cutting back on esl teachers) and i also think there are more western deviants than korean ones. I know, i know, shoot me. But i have a young daughter, and i’d feel safer with her unattended i a korean public space than a western one. And the esl industry seems to attract a lot of weird characters, all of whom are in contact with young people. I don’t think its as big a probkem asthe korean press would have the locals believe it is, but when you add the incredible costof native speakers to tge country, paring them back by introducing more stringent requirements is a good idea in my books.

  • hoju_saram

    Agreed.

  • wangkon936

    “… i also think there are more western deviants than korean ones.”

    Well, I will have to chalk that one up as your view, but not necessarily mine. I was merely saying that English teaching expatriates are in a greater position of vulnerability than the average foreigner because they are exposed to more young people simply because it is their job to meet with several classrooms full of young people a day and thus would have more opportunities (temptations?) to act if they in fact have such deviant tendencies

    I actually believe in the biological equality of the expat and the Korean (both are human beings after all). Out of a given population of similar sex (male or female) and demographic (including age and marital status), the number of sexual deviants is likely to be similar.

  • redwhitedude

    Well I did suggest one way of going about cutting it down. If people still are crazy about English then I’m sure they will send their kids those that can’t cut it for english instruction abroad, which itself presents a whole new set of issues.

  • Arghaeri

    LOL If the targt is “conversant” doubt it approaches 5%

  • Arghaeri

    But that surely suggests, qualified teachers and vetting, not stop learning.

  • Arghaeri

    Quote, “I think the better approach”, no suggestion if combined approach.

  • Arghaeri

    You’re again dissembling, you clearly said “you western guys”,not “we western guys”, the inference is there.

  • Arghaeri

    Not to mention you’re doing it again in this reply, “being bi-cultural is difficult for you people like you to grasp”

    More projection, do you really think you’re the only one who is bicultural let alone has experienced it and understands it.

    You self identified as western guy, but then excluded yourself from that group when discussing that groups supposed susceptibility.

    As I noted, whether or not you think you are, or indeed are, it certainly no wonder some people think you give off that vibe.

  • wangkon936

    I don’t know what to tell ya buddy. Maybe it’s kind of like an Irishman who had Irish parents but was born and grew up in England. In many issues, he thinks like an Englishman, particularly in international issues, but in other ways, particularly the complex history between the two peoples, he thinks more like an Irishman. Rinse repeat for Welsh and Scotsman.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Don’t lump me in with Mr. Black.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Fine. You’re American. That makes you more likely to sexually abuse children. Perhaps. Welcome to the club.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Censor, censor.

  • aligner

    No luck there. Our Moderator and Chief approves of slander depending on the direction it has been aimed. In fact, he gave that comment the thumbs up!

  • Bob Bobbs

    If you have never lived in Korea, your opinion is ‘of minimal value.’ Perhaps.

  • DC Musicfreak

    Avoid getting hung up on the semantics of “prone” or “vulnerable” — it’s the idea that you are (perhaps unwittingly) conveying that comes off as bizarre: the notion that a normal young teacher, once placed in a classroom full of kids, will somehow helplessly succumb to pedophile urges or engages in a crime of opportunity This is not how things work, if you follow up the known cases. Maybe it’s your word choices rather than your intent.

  • rowan

    The problem with assuming that they are getting “very little out of it” this is based on your own utility function, which cannot accurately be applied to others. Obviously they are getting at least as much benefit/utility as what they would get if they spent the same money on an alternative.

    I agree with your last point about leaving if you don’t like it though.

  • aligner

    Dear readers,

    Please be informed that above comment was edited not once but twice within the last hour after my Moderator and Chief comment, and that Wangkon and two other approvals briefly disappeared, only to return with one more brethren approval after the final edit.

    Please draw your own conclusion on what this could mean.

    Thank you.

  • aligner

    Dear readers,

    Please be informed that above comment was edited and Wangkon’s approval and two others disppeared after my Moderator and Chief comment.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Are you asking us to please understand your unique culture when it comes to dealing with sex offenders?

  • wangkon936

    I wonder if you can say or read one intelligible sentence in Korean. I wonder.

  • wangkon936

    Is that something to consider funny or shameful for the English teaching community?

  • wangkon936

    But no denial or rejection of it either.

  • bumfromkorea

    지인한테 써달라고 부탁하는 시간은 주셔야지. :D

  • wangkon936

    빨리! 구글 투란수래투 누르!

  • wangkon936

    아, 외국인. 구글 투란수래투 누르바. 빨리!

  • wangkon936

    괜찬느. 그런거 필요없는대. 금마으.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Wonder away, little man.

  • wangkon936

    As an amateur economist I interpret the inability to “leave if you don’t like it” thusly. It me, if you stay, but you don’t like it then it means that you can’t get a job that pays better back home because you don’t have the skills. It’s like keeping a job you hate back home. You still go to work and do the job, even if you hate it, because you don’t have a better alternative because you lack the qualifications to get that better job.

  • rowan

    agree with your point- we always maximise our utility within the available options. What you are discussing now however is the supply side, and it is the demand side (benefit/utility gained from ‘consuming’ the English teaching) that we have been discussing.

  • Arghaeri

    Please enlighten me as to how the English teaching community is responsible for your woeful ignorance.

  • chooNryusk

    Bait and Switch virtuoso!

  • chooNryusk

    Just because the weak doesn’t have power and didn’t and still don’t win against powerful Korean rapists doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an effect on society or that it isn’t discussed within family, friends, local representatives, politicians. You sound like Koreans who tell me they don’t like and/or talk about politics.

  • chooNryusk

    What does Wilt have to do with anything? Like Asians don’t brag about the number of women they screw? Didn’t anyone “chuckle” at him? Of course not! Given his size, half of Wilt’s number is pretty good don’t you think? Cecil Chao, shipping tycoon at 77 who has never been married says he slept with 10,000 women,
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hong-hong-tycoon-withdraws-marriage-bounty-for-lesbian-daughter-9098574.html

  • chooNryusk

    Ummm, you were most recently VERY quick to ignore the 3) cultural aspect and jump to race. I’ll link to it in a moment.

  • chooNryusk
  • Arghaeri

    LOL, you really are incapable aren’t you!!!

  • Arghaeri

    Well yes I guess you must be very confused what with assimilating the centuries upon centuries of years of complex border warfare, cross border invasions, social upheaval, numerous languages and interbreeding between Korea and the US.!!!!!!

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