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So, Mr. Suga, what IS the other side?

Japan is unhappy about the recent opening of a memorial hall to Ahn Jung-geun in Harbin China:

“The co-ordinated move by China and South Korea based on a one-sided view [of history] is not conducive to building peace and stability,” Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga, you’ll recall, is the gentleman who had previously referred to Ahn as a “criminal.

Some might see this as an insult. I see it as an opportunity. A Korean Foreign Ministry spokesperson needs to go out there immediately and ask Suga, “OK, what’s the other side then?”

I’m serious. Where historical issues are concerned, Japan is its own worst enemy. As we’ve seen in the New York Times, with the New York State Senate and, heck, even my humble comment section, Japanese right-wing nationalists absolutely love to talk, and the more they do, the worse they look. And the best part is, they’re completely oblivious to how nauseatingly bad they look, so they just keep going and going.

So just get Suga talking—he’ll do more to promote the Korean side than 100 angry condemnations from the Korean Foreign Ministry.

Trust me, Foreign Ministry guys. You’ll thank me later.

Anyway, one of the side benefits of the Ahn Jung-geun memorial has been the spectacle of Japanese editorial writers rending their garments in grief and outrage. See, for instance, the Yomiuri Shimbun, which in an editorial entitled “South Korea’s anti-Japan diplomatic maneuvering goes too far” (stop laughing now, dammit!) complains:

Yet we feel the memorial hall—built with no regard for Japan’s position or its national sentiments—is absolutely unacceptable.

I’ll let you meditate on the irony of a Japanese paper whinging about hurt feelings. And ponder this warning for a moment:

China is a multiethnic nation, and praising Ahn risks stirring up ethnic consciousness among the ethnic Koreans living within its borders.

And Japan would know, seeing how it spent most of the 1930s and 1940s trying to dismember China.

Finally, more whining about “Korea making us look bad with its one-sided views of history”:

Meanwhile, apart from the issues surrounding the Ahn memorial, South Korea has intensified its one-sided assertions regarding its historical perceptions. We cannot overlook the fact that such assertions undermine Japan’s position in international institutions and in the eyes of other countries.

As I said above, nothing—and I do mean nothing—”undermines Japan’s position in international institutions and in the eyes of other countries” than when Japanese themselves try to counter Korea’s “one-sided assertions.” It’s not Korea that makes Japan look like a nation of unrepentant assholes. It’s Japan that makes Japan look like a nation of unrepentant assholes.

Anyway, here’s a suggestion to Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga—wanna see a memorial to real criminals? Hop on a subway and visit Yasukuni.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • redwhitedude

    You forgot to mention those Japanese delegations that go to the US to take down the comfort women memorials. Really weak. It makes them look silly.

    Not to mention white house petitions. Just plain dumb.

  • kaizenmx

    japan would rather commit suicide rather than admit their past war time facts.

  • Whitey

    Sincere question: In which other country is there an assassin who is revered as a hero? I can’t think of one.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    In Germany the almost assassin of Hitler is considered a hero. That’s just off the top of my had. and the analogy is apt, as the Jap was akin to Hitler. Good for the Korean to have succeeded.

  • Cham

    Jan Kubis and his co-conspirators are well respected as heroes in the Czech Republic for their assassination of Nazi top official Reinhard Heydrich.

  • wangkon936

    “… wanna see a memorial to real criminals? Hop on a subway and visit Yasukuni.”

    Rob,

    More correctly, the museum next to Yasukuni:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABsh%C5%ABkan

  • Juniper

    What does that even mean anyway: “the Jap”? Is it like “the Great Horned Owl” or something? A species designation? Needlessly derogatory.

  • wangkon936

    Not to mention Flame & Citron, Danish assassins of Nazis and their Danish sympathizers:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_%26_Citron

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Faurschou-Hviid

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    A species designation.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    One can add Joseph Pilsudski who was part of a plan to assassinate the tsar of Russia. he later became the leader of Poland between the two world wars. he was a hero to Poles.

    I would call John Wilkes Booth a hero

    Brutus?

  • Cham

    John Wilkes Booth a hero? In what country is he a wide hero? Certainly not the United States, despite what pockets of our lesser educated regions might say.

  • Japanese

    I think what Ito did to Korea cannot be discussed without mentioning Gabo Reform in 1984, which was modernization movement of Korea and was collaboration between pro Japanese Korean politicians and Japanese Government when Ito was the Prime Minister of Japan. During the Gabo Reform, based on the recommendation and support of Japanese government headed by Ito, Korea abolished medieval class system, abolished slavery, enacted 14 article constitution, prohibited arbitrary taxation by the King, set a limit to the spending of the King, guaranteed due process of law, established court of law, and cleaned up corruption of government officials. The menu has surprising similarity with what Ito did in Japan to modernize it, except Japan did not have slavery system.

    I do not want to insult Koreans, but I want to know how Gabo Reform is evaluated in South Korea today, and how is the role of Ito evaluated in the reform.

  • Japanese

    Sorry, I mean Gabo Reform in 1894.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Gavrilo Princip comes to mind. Michael Collins ran an assassination squad, too:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(Irish_Republican_Army_unit)

  • tinyflowers

    Japan just needs to GET OVER IT and MOVE ON. Get back to the serious business of dolphin slaughter and cephalopod sodomy.

  • cmxc

    I swear long term expats like RJK must have something similar to Stockholm Syndrome, completely losing objectivity with regard to issues impacting Korea

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    To people who hate Lincoln, and there are plenty such people, he is a hero. You think only the lesser educated hate one of the worst villains, even worse than FDR, in American history? A man who slaughtered not only Southerners who wanted to leave a Union that was smothering them economically; a man who destroyed the Republic and left in his wake a centralized State; a man who is guilty of the largest mass pogroms in US history; a man who waged genocide against Native Americans?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Mandela assassinated his fair share of people, too, and he is beloved the world over

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Dogeaters condemning Japan for dolphin slaughter is just embarrassing.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    I must admit I laughed out aloud when I read about this a couple of weeks back..
    South Korea only wanted a plaque, China says here have a whopping statue.
    My laughter was kind of tinged with embarrassment at the childish nature of the whole thing..

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Dolphins are more delicious

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    갑오개혁, it is taught as a rather sad and unnatural way of modernization of a country where the corrupt Korean court and the suppression of 동학 revolution movement and the external situation and pressure all resulted in a modernization procedure which was kind of *forced by* and *designed for* the Japanese and the West and not necessarily for the Koreans themselves..

  • tinyflowers

    I’m not a dogeater, and even if I was, I would have no problem condemning the slaughter of dolphins. What’s so embarrassing about that?

  • tinyflowers

    Libertarians and Randians love John Wilkes Booth

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    People who love the idea of the American Republic, or the idea of self-determination, or the idea that secession is a birth given right of a self-owner all should love Booth. People who like centralized States that deny the right to self-detemination for groups and individuals love Lincoln. The Grete Emancipator didn’t even emancipate the slaves, he was nothing but a hypocrite.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    똥묻은 개가 겨묻은 개를 나무라니까요..

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Korean court -> Chosun dynasty
    BTW, it’s pronounced like Kabo. I thought that Gabo was some reform made by the uncle of some other famous Greta.

  • tinyflowers

    I would say the same to non-vegans who condemn dog eating. Do you eat meat?

    There’s nothing wrong with recognizing that not all animals are the same. Dolphins are sentient individual beings. They use language. They have unique names for each other. They make use of tools. They pass on culture to their young. They are fully self-aware animals on par with humans and other great apes.

    Any attempt to put dogs on par with dolphins will have to invoke an anthropocentric argument, or an emotional one.

  • tinyflowers

    It’s OK salaryman. You too could have been a superman!
    Only if it wasn’t for those danged parasites!

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Vegetarian. Not all animals are the same. Funny.
    My dog knows at least 10 of the family/friends by name…

    Korea (and China) is like a 똥묻은 개 in its general treatment of animals -regarded at a whole different level by the same people who condemn Japan for dolphin eating.
    It’s just funny to see Koreans condemning Japanese for this, although I do see around 1 in 10 saying the same thing as I do in the comment section of the latest Japanese dolphin hunting article on Daum..the other 9 the same old crazy and embarrassing “Japan should sink, Japan should die in earthquake”..sad really.

  • Japanese

    Thanks.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Oh no, she went there.

  • tinyflowers

    That’s cute that you have a human socialized dog. But let us be objective for a moment. Dogs are really no smarter than other canids like wolves, foxes, coyotes, jackels – many of which are shot on sight as vermin. Dogs happened to pick up an evolutionary adaptation to respond emotionally to humans as a survival mechanism. It’s simple evolutionary biology.

    The lives of dogs aren’t valued by humans because of some inherent quality that makes them better than other animals. We value them because of what they mean to us humans. So it’s an anthropocentric, emotional argument, and rather shaky moral ground when deciding which animals get to live and which get slaughtered by the millions. All animal rights activists are guilty of this.

  • Juniper

    You’re probably right, but why should it be any different? Living long term in what has become (for better or worse) an adopted home for these foreigners, it’s no surprise that something of a Korean sensibility and worldview has rubbed off on them.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Same when you said that “Dolphins and Great apes are like this”…they are intelligent and social, so what say the Japanese dolphin hunters.. at least these dolphins are hunted from the wild and not born and raised in unspeakable condition… and moreover your deriding Japanese of the practice seems to spring from some other emotion…

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Lately I read Korean news and it makes me ochikonderu..落ち込んでる..they accuse you of Stockholm syndrome, I must be suffering from a case of anti-Stockholm syndrome..it’s like seeing your family members acting blind and stupid and realizing you don’t actually like a lot of them..

  • tinyflowers

    The point is that they are NOT the same. The point is that cetacea, great apes, perhaps elephants are on a level higher than livestock and pets. These are fellow sentient beings that share the earth with humans. You elevate dogs to that level because of cuddly feelings about fido, but it’s an emotional, anthropocentric argument.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    The point is that they are NOT the same.

    Says you. And I agree. It’s what I usually say to blind ears.Perhaps elephants? LOL? Are you sure it’s not just because they are not as delicious? Ivory traders don’t agree with you.

  • seouldout

    Princip came immediately to my mind. His monumet was removed by the Bosnian Muslims

    In 1995, the Bosnian Muslim political leaders in Sarajevo removed the Princip monument and replaced it with a marker that only noted that the assassination occurred there but without characterizing the deed.

    Emin Svrakic,the Bosnian Muslim deputy chairman of the Sarajevo City Council, explained the decision by arguing that Princip was not a “hero” at all, but an assassin who had murdered innocent victims.

    “Princip killed an innocent man and his wife who was in advanced pregnancy at the time. Was that a heroic act?”

    Svrakic, stirred controversy when he proposed that the 1917 monument to Franz Ferdinand and Sophie, called the Sühnedenkmal or Spomenik umorstva, The Atonement or
    Expiation Monument, be returned to the site.

    The monument was moved to the Bosnian National Museum in 1918 after World War I by authorities of the newly created kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes that emerged. The two 10 meter columns were destroyed. The central medallion with the images of the Archduke and the Duchess have been preserved, however, in the basement of the Sarajevo Art Gallery.

    http://serbianna.com

  • seouldout

    You ought to try panda. Too deliciously.

  • tinyflowers

    Says science, actually. Hard science. I shall cite numerous articles and studies relating to dolphin intelligence if you’re so inclined.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    LOL You don’t have to convince me that dolphins should not be hunted that way, it’s like preaching to the choir, actually it’s like 식모앞에서 행주흔든다.

  • RElgin

    The PRC teaching South Korea how to use history for political purposes?

    Sick.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “A man who slaughtered Southerners who wanted to leave a Union that was smothering them economically”

    Really?

    These poor Southerners who didn’t want to give up their right to own black people?

    The Civil War was very complex, but you can’t reference the South’s desire to leave the Union without referencing slavery.

    Though you are quite right about the genocide against Native Americans. Lincoln is not popular among American Indians.

  • provIdence

    『わが国の歴史教科書はインチキだ』(“Korean History Textbooks Are Cheating” — my translation –) by a Korean professor emeritus, Bunshun Weekly going on-sale tomorrow.

  • Juniper

    The science of animal intelligence now puts dogs (particularly border collies) right up there with dolphins.

    But even so, I’m not sure intelligence should be what convinces us to spare the life of an animal. What’s the basis for it?

    Is it because we think we’re so smart and any animal that’s like us shouldn’t be eaten?

    The ability to feel fear, pain, and to suffer seems like a better criterion. I think the work of Temple Grandin is interesting in that regard, trying to eliminate those aspects from the beef cattle slaughter process.

  • redwhitedude

    Looks like the Chinese want to stir things up more.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    So the South’s secession was based on the idea of self-determination and self-ownership?

    Think carefully about that.

  • hoju_saram

    Actually, he didn’t assassinate anyone.

  • ryuNchoosk

    I agree and congratulations!

  • tinyflowers

    That’s a dubious claim. Cite your source please. I’ll bet any study supporting your claim has a large component of human-animal interaction where dogs score highly for the reasons outlined above.

    Intelligence isn’t the relavent criteria here anyway, sentience is. Any animal that is self-aware is a mind capable of feeling fear, pain and suffering.

    A classic test of animal self-awareness is the mirror test. Only a handful of animals can pass this test, including dolphins and great apes.

  • wangkon936

    The 갑오 개혁 was in response to the Donghak Peasant Revolutions and modeled in some respects after the reforms ushered in by the Meiji Restoration. I have always believed that Meiji Restoration as a good thing to emulate for a feudal kingdom looking for quick change to strengthen domestic institutions to counter encroaching foreign powers. The initial provisions of the Gabo Reforms did attempt to address many of the grievances that the revolting peasants had. Additionally, Japan did assist in the drafting of the Gabo Reforms and provided input on its implementation.

    However, the Gabo Reforms are, in Korea, not remembered as a modernizing event. It is remembered as an instrument used by Japan to increase their control of the Joseon Dynasty and hence Korea and the Korean people.

    The Gabo Reforms are viewed a lot like the “autonomy” of Joseon sought by the Japanese after their victory in the First Sino-Japanese War. The Japanese, in the Treaty of Shimonoseki didn’t really care about the “autonomy” of the Joseon Kingdom, they just wanted China out. As with the Gabo Reforms, it is viewed by most Koreans that the Japanese didn’t really care about modernizing Joseon, they just wanted to weaken the power of the king and nobility and insert themselves into fill the power vacuum.

  • setnaffa

    Nose tombs again?

  • wangkon936

    I would like to mention that directly “criticizing the blog owner” has historically been a provision seen as worthy of banning from this site.

    Carry on Mr. cmxc, or is that Mr. getrealKorea?

    Also, socks are not appreciated on this site either.

  • setnaffa

    Booth was a coward who refused to join in the fight until it was lost and then shot Lincoln from behind.

  • setnaffa

    It’s obvious he never actually read the CSA’s “constitution”…

  • setnaffa

    But he was a terrorist and his wife had people stuffed in tyres and burned alive

  • wangkon936

    ryuNchoosk,

    Can I ask you a serious question? Why do you not have a Disqus account and why do none of your apparent “friends” have a Disqus account either?

  • setnaffa

    In the book A Ride to Khiva: Travels and Adventures in Central Asia ISBN 978-0-19-288050-5 by Frederick Burnaby, on page 34 is a reference to the religious war that had been going on since roughly 1384 (“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_conquest_of_Bosnia”).

    By 1995, that’s roughly 611 years of fighting.

    Is killing a foreign invader who tried to destroy your former language, customs, culture, and religion evil? Does it depend on whether they compel the change by force?

  • wangkon936

    Yuna,

    Are you fluent in Japanese? I have a cousin who is fluent in Japanese.

  • djson1

    Even though I don’t agree with cmxc’s comments, I don’t think we should insinuate or threaten that people will get banned for expressing opinions. Robert seems to be more tolerant to those folks anyways. Imagine how one sided Ampontan’s blog would have been if he banned people so easily (I use to criticize him and he only threaten to ban me if I resorted to name-calling others on the site).

  • djson1

    However, it’s probably not the particular “dog eaters” of Korea that are condemning the Japanese for dolphin slaughter and whale munching.

  • wangkon936

    Mr. Japanese’s attempt at apologetics appears to fit a general rubric that I’ve seen from the pro-imperial Japan crowd:

    1. Take an isolated event, then isolate it even further.

    2. Put the best possible spin on it.

    3. Mention no historical or political context whatsoever.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Sometimes I think Koreans fail this test with the mirror.

    We know that dogs employ the sense of smell to an amazing degree, and employ an ever interchanging visual and smelling sense. They have been known to show the said self-awareness with their own scent.

    As for feeling pain fear and suffering, my dog pulls and crosses the road to the other side when we pass by the entrance to the vets and also large electrical stores where his arch enemies live (vacuum cleaners)..

    For feeling attachment/love, what can one say? The unconditional canine loyalty to one’s master? Most of the time it’s not on a par with human loyalty.

    And meanwhile I will be watching another episode of the “Petorialist” http://vimeo.com/82823746
    Although I don’t care much for the smaller yappy breeds or the dolly dress-ups that seem so common in Korea (in Germany the focus is more on training and focused on general well-being of dogs than perhaps anywhere else in the West), it is interesting to see where the crazy runaway pet-culture in Korea will end up, along with the dog-soup slurping that is going on.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Eh? Why so sensitive? I read the same comment and I don’t see that at all.

  • wangkon936

    djson1,

    It’s not a threat. It’s a warning. cmxc, a.k.a. getrealKorea, views are welcomed. I see no reason, however, to not inform him of certain standards of this blog so he can avoid future troubles.

  • wangkon936

    Just say’in is all.

  • wangkon936

    Like I said, the Japanese are playing checkers, the Chinese are playing chess.

    The Chinese (by this I mean their government) are amoral. But, they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, unintelligent.

  • Horace Jeffery Hodges

    I doubt that dogs are as intelligent as chimps, though they are quite intelligent (there have been scientifically conducted tests, easily located online), and unlike any other animal that we know of, they understand what pointing means and can even understand well enough to look in the direction that humans are looking.

    For pure brainpower, though, the orca can’t be beat.

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • redwhitedude

    Dogeaters don’t take up recovery funds from a certain accident to do it.

  • redwhitedude

    Japanese exerting influence in Korea because of China in some way is a fallacy. The chinese weren’t really meddling in internal Korean affairs. The chinese largely left that alone.

  • djson1

    Sometimes “socks” are unintentional though. I used to use “lastnamekim” for wordpress, but for some reason after discus was used to log in, it was “djson1″…can’t remember how that happened.

  • wangkon936

    That’s why I said “possible.” However, I can guarantee you that your issue (between Disqus and WordPress) was not cmxc’s issue.

  • wangkon936

    “Japanese exerting influence in Korea because of China…”

    I don’t think that is exactly what I said. The Chinese generally leave the Koreans alone when no other foreign power is involved in Korea. However, when there is a foreign power involved in Korea, then they get extremely interested.

  • redwhitedude

    You overlooked the fallacy part there. The Japanese meddled in Korea because according to them Korea needed to be independent from China as in China was controlling Korea. Obviously if another power tries to pry loose Korea from its stance which isn’t threatening to China then China does take interest in Korea. But back to the point China wasn’t meddling and dictating to Korea how to run the country.

  • wangkon936

    I don’t disagree with you.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    God rest his soul. I didn’t always agree with Ampontan, but his commentary was invaluable. He was taken from us way too early.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Indeed, they forget to mention the nitrogen fertilizer factories:

    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2013/10/31/who-said-japanese-right-wing-bigots-cant-be-cute-too/

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Perhaps. Although I suppose one might see the opposite phenomenon at work, too, namely, expats taking to the Internet in support of revisionist, right-wing Japanese views about the Pacific War and Japanese imperialism because they’re angry at their hagwon boss or the “Ajeossi” ™ who looked at them the wrong way on the subway.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    As Wangkon says, it never hurts to let people know.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    If Lincoln truly fought to free the slaves, he would have, upon winning the war, FREED THE SLAVES. Alas, the slaves were not freed; the Northerners did NOTHING to free them; nay, the Northerners were as racist, or more so than the Southerners; and Lincoln HIMSELF often enough stated that freeing the slaves was none of his concern – proving those words true with his actions after having not only defeated the Southern armies but DEVASTATING the towns, cities and countryside of the South and their inhabitants. In the process of “Saving the Union” via total war aimed at civilians just as much as the military of the South he killed the Republic; took away the option of ever seceding peacefully from the Union (see Texas) and hence being the Father of the Federal State. Need we mention the Natives he had slaughtered at this point?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Lincoln deserved no heroic death. Being shot in the back while seated in a theater was the sort of coward’s death he deserved.

  • wangkon936

    “…then shot Lincoln from behind.”

    Southern “chivalry” in action!

  • wangkon936

    Wow SMS… what exactly do you have against Mr. Five Dollar Bill?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Was the Civil War fought for the emancipation of Slaves or for something else? Look at the result: no slaves were actually emancipated but the South was ruined and made dependent wholly on the North in a union that permitted no thought of secession.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I outlined it above. Lincoln, for me is the head of the triple-headed hydra that destroyed the idea the United States stood for. A gentleman with honor should be killed on a battlefield, or challenged to a duel. A cowardly reptile like the Great Liar deserved the bullet in the back. I read he was drunk at the moment Booth shot him. I am inclined to believe that

  • wangkon936

    Tyres? Don’t Reagan loving Americans spell it “tires?” Hey, wait a minute…. what kind of passport do you have Mr. “Greatest President Ever” avatar owner?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union…”

    He was a propagandist; fought a war on false pretenses; and saw his chance to destroy a Republic and create a strong Federal government.

    The Emancipation Proclamation, what a great piece of agitprop. It “freed” slaves only in the States that rebelled. Why? Primarily for the manpower for Northern armies. What happened after the War in the states where “Slaves were freed”? What measures did Lincoln take to make the slaves into citizens? None. Slaves returned to plantations, no longer as slaves but as indentured workers where in consequence of the economic realities they were no better off than before. Jim Crow laws attest to the utter failure, or rather the refusal, of Lincoln to go beyond empty words.

    Over 1 million slaves remained as factual slaves in loyal states. A principled emancipator would have freed them all. Lincoln was neither principled nor an emancipator. He was a tyrant.

    What did Mr. Emancipator foresee as the future for freed slaves? Well, Mr. Emancipator’s wet dream was rounding them up and shipping them off to Central America : ”especially because of the similarity of climate
    with your native land — thus being suited to your physical condition.”

  • djson1

    The U.S.A.- Although not an individual, but in the US, the Navy SEALs come to mind as people who are respected as heroes.

  • wangkon936
  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I am a Jeffersonian, Sir. I am a proponent of a Republic and an enemy of strong Federal governments. Lincoln is burning in the circle of hell reserved for traitors.

  • redwhitedude

    It seems like I wrote it in a convoluted fashion. But as far as China was concerned Korea wasn’t threatening but if it joined Japan with its imperialist intend then China would have to act.

  • redwhitedude

    It was fought on something else. North wanted a strong central government but the south wanted a looser union. Slavery was the result of socioeconomic conditions in the south which was largely agrian requiring a lot of farm labor which the slaves provided on the cheap. The north however was largery industrial so there wasn’t as much need for slave labor. The slaves were “freed” only to be treated as second class human beings until the civil rights movement. If you ask an african american they will make it sound that slavery was the issue that it was fought.

  • redwhitedude

    And an opponent to Alexander Hamilton.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    ONE MILLION SLAVES were left in slavery under the Emancipation Proclamation. ONE MILLION to whom those words did not apply. One million slaves in states that did not rebel. It was a con job. Nothing else.

  • redwhitedude

    It was a nice propaganda exercise given what they faced afterward as I mentioned.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Myself? Very much so. is that a bad thing; strikes me as a random thing to bring up. Is wishing Hamilton had been killed in a less honorable way a bad thing? So much to hate him for, but being the father of the first central bank is an especially good reason to hate him.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    It was propaganda. Come and fight for us, we will pay you some wages, destroy the economy of the south, raze the land, and leave you high and dry after the figthin’s through. And by the way, why don’t you pack up and leave to Central America as we have no use for you after the fightin’ be done.

    No so fast you million slaves in Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware or Tennessee; since we don’t need you as cannon fodder, you stay put.

  • redwhitedude

    And to think the US could have gobbled up all of Mexico if it weren’t for slave state and non slave state controversy.

  • redwhitedude

    Then Andrew Jackson must have been a hero.

  • wangkon936

    There is a theory that Lincoln had a secret agreement with the liberal Mexican government to respect their sovereignty in exchange for their resistance against French forces encroaching onto North America. Mexican victory, against the French, at the Battle of Puebla was the basis for the Mexican-American holiday of Cinco de Mayo.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Not particularly, no.

  • redwhitedude

    Why? He refused to renew the charter for the US central bank. He killed the central bank in the US.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Yes, but there is more to my hate for Hamilton than the CB and more to Old Hickory than killing it. State nullification of Federal laws is an issue I think is especially important.

  • Japanese

    I am rather new here. It would be helpful if the commenting policy is written in the “about” page, as it never hurts to let people know. And you have a policy that anyone who criticized the blog owner (ie Robert Koehler) gets banned.

  • wangkon936

    Historically, that’s what Rob has done, but having said that I think one has to be VERY obnoxious to have that Damocles Sword fall on them. We give lots of chances here.

    As with anything in life, you have a much higher rate of success if you ask with sugar, rather than spice.

  • Japanese

    How about other Korean assassins?
    Is Kim Jeagyu who assassinated Pak Jeonghui a good guy or a bad guy?
    Is Hong Jongu who assassinated Kim Okkyun in 1894 a good guy or a bad guy?
    Is Zin Bo who attempted to assassinate Jeon Duhwan in 1983 in Rangoon a good guy or a bad guy?
    Wangkon, please do not take more meaning than it is. I just want to know how people draw lines between a hero and a criminal.

  • Bosh

    The main problem with Lincoln is that he didn’t hang nearly enough traitors…

  • wangkon936

    Just by the way it was worded, your question is obviously not genuine. I will waste no time on it.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Suicide? He should have gone first

  • RElgin

    The Civil War was fought over the rights of states versus the rights of the central government. All other issues were tangent upon this and it is an issue that is revisited in many different ways even today but mostly without bullets.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    and as I said, the Republic died and the centralized nation state won. All else is a consequence of that and all the ills fall at Lincoln’s feet

  • redwhitedude

    However there are people who argue that had the north not won the US would not have become the superpower that it is now.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Actually, I don’t have such a policy. Criticism of the blog owner (i.e., me) is usually OK as long as you don’t piss on my rug. And you’ve been here long enough to know that, “stereotype.”

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Oh, and one more thing, stereotype:

  • Koreandumbdumb

    What is wrong with PGH? She did not even say “Hi” to Abe. http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=pol&arcid=0007963543&code=11121100&cp=nv2

    Korean newspapers are saying Abe should not have been there. But, there is something called “international courtesy”. PGH is a savage.

    I do not like Jap Monkeys like anybody else. But, this common courtesy should be extended in any international meeting. That is the norm and the protocol. PGH suck! Why didn’t she exchange common greetings? Then, leave. That is what civilized people do.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Which may be true, but Empire is the ultimate killer of liberties. Brutus was the other heroic assassin on my list because he knew this. Booth, like Brutus, killed a tyrant.

  • wangkon936

    There was a pseudo documentary about this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViGaTSnqRw

    Saw it. It was just okay.

  • JJ

    Since the Japanese have failed to admit to their past war crimes until now, why are they still around crawling when all of them should be dead by now.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Here you go:

  • http://www.facebook.com/be.way.5 Be Way

    Sick? Likely could be you.
    To the Chinese, whatever they wanted to do, they have a habit of doing it big whether it’s for political, social, humanity reason etc. Typical cases are The Great Wall, The Great Canal, The Great Forbidden City, The Great Bridge, The Great Railway etc. etc.
    So don’t restrict yourself that the Chinese are only playing politics.

  • Arghaeri

    Isn’t that the point of an assassin, or are you suggesting an assassin shod walk up to the guy and say “excuse me sir, would you mind standing still for a moment while I shoot you?

  • Arghaeri

    Indeed are Bin Ladins assassins not lauded in the US?

  • MARI

    Wow, you have perfectly said it. Thank you.

  • MARI

    Well, do you see Mr. Japanese’s response back to Wangkon936? I don’t think so..

  • MARI

    Okay then.. this applies to those in Japan as well… LOL

  • wangkon936

    Any time.

  • wangkon936

    kaizenmx was being facetious. You people have no sense of humor.

  • redwhitedude

    To me superpower has a bad aftertaste. It is just an excuse to go everywhere whenever you feel like it instead of trying to reason as to why certain things or areas are not worth the interest.

  • IAMIN YURI

    Such a tired old story; The Japanese were meanies!
    What about the Mongols? Why stop at Japan?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    LOL Baduk, I like your non-discrimination.
    Anyway, regarding Park, it’s like I’ve always said. It’s not about the economy, it’s not about the regional security and balance of power, she’s just a woman pissed off in a post-menopausal way w.r.t. Abe. It’s what you get with women in politics and in general workplace (it’s not always like that, sometimes you get men like Angela Merkel dressed up as a woman)
    Park is simply using the ultimate powerful womanly weapon against Abe – the “silent treatment”.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    I forget, who is who, now that we have quite a few of them around, is stereotype = providence?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Why Park is giving Abe the silent treatment:
    http://www.mensxp.com/dating/inner-game/9150-10-interpretations-of-a-womans-silent-treatment-p_recent.html
    & let me tell you, it’s NEVER no.10. That’s just a preposterous “in-your-dreams!” to make the number 10.

  • cckerberos

    Heh. Coincidentally, I was just reading something yesterday that mentioned that when a group of Russians wanted to hold a ceremony in Harbin in 1998 (the centennial of the establishment of the Russian railroad that made the village of Harbin into an important city), the Chinese government rejected it, saying that the Russian railway had had nothing to do with the development of Harbin.

  • cckerberos

    I think that oversimplifies the Japanese motivations a bit, which differed from faction to faction. While there were certainly business interests who saw economic advantages to Japanese expansion into Korea, there was also a widespread belief among the Japanese military elite that Japan had to attain a strong position in Korea because if they didn’t do so the Russians would, with disastrous consequences for Japan (hence the famous 1885 description of Korea as “a dagger pointed at the heart of Japan”).

  • Guest

    Sure…take the easy way out.

  • redwhitedude

    Yes it is that gigantomania obsession with these socialist. They just ram things through without asking some hard questions about the feasibility. They shut people who object to certain things about it and instead of working things out they just bowl them over and proceed and man they sure do a reckless rush job. Just look at the accident in their high speed train projects. Who knows they will drain a lot of money without getting much in return. Of course with their funny accounting practice and “state secrets” they will act like nothing or pretend it is working out. They are playing politics they prefer to do things for show instead of looking at the economic, and social viability. You are sounding like a CCP mouth piece.

  • kaizenmx

    LOL, what a shit logic to argue.

    Why are Jews bitching at the Nazis? They should also bitch at Egyptians for centuries of slavery and death. Eh?

  • hoju_saram

    He wasn”t a terrorist either. He started an organisation that began by protesting against apartheid and the botha regime (which was quite fond of torture) peacefully. When this approach didn’t work he decided to sabotage government infrastructure. The bombs that killed civilians were organised by those who took over his organisation while he was imprisoned. There is no evidence he ordered them, or condoned them. Unless you have a source that says otherwise?

    Nor does botha’s cynical offer to release him if he gave up violence mean he was a terrorist either. Some things are worth fighting for.

  • Arghaeri

    Sure that’s not a typo, imagine the Koreans confusion when in commemoration they asked china for a plague on Japan and all they got was a statue. :-)

  • JinJoo

    I strongly recommend you a DVD titled ‘The Cove’, a docu film that exposes how horrifically the Japanese slaughter the dolphins. Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans.

    http://www.newrealities.com/index.php/articles-on-new-sciences/item/622-scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons

    In the film, dolphins even commit suicide when watching other dolphins being slaughtered in front of them.

    I am, as a Korean, offended that you put Koreans and Chinese in the same 똥묻은 개 category.

    Sure, some cruel dog eaters in Korea beat dogs (edible dogs, usually 똥개) as apparently beating makes meat much more tender. I hope these beasts end up in hell.

    But, what do you think of Chinese who, to celebrate Spring Season, cook a cattle while it is still alive – slowly
    for ten hours. Imagine the horror and pain the cattle is going through for 10 hours and the cheering people who enjoy watching it. I can go on with the ways various animals are cooked while they are still alive.

    http://truthbehindchina.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/how-to-cook-cattle-while-it-is-still.html

    A monk once said, all living creatures, including plant posess ‘기 (chi, energy), and those who eat
    animals, which were killed cruelly, will absorb Animals’ 나쁜 기 (negative energy), probably the reason
    why there are more cruel people in China (it definitely is nothing to do with their population) than anywhere else.

  • JinJoo

    번데기 앞에서 주름잡아서 미안합니다.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Sure I understand the distaste at being grouped together with China in this respect, However, the sad truth is that for the rest of the world, the shades of grey does not apply, Korea is known as dog-eating nation, and as long as this continues, Korea + China will be grouped together.
    When I grew up in Korea, I don’t remember there being so many dog restaurants, at least out in the open as there are today, plain to see. I am absolutely shocked, yet when I bring it up with friends in Korea, they just say “Really? Do they still eat dogs? Isn’t it just some ignorant old folks only? ” It’s like they are blind, or they choose to be blind..

    By the way what some Korean categorize as 똥개 variety, is exactly where the mistake starts from. A dog is a dog, and there’s no such breed which was developed “for meat” and “battery farming” it’s a Korean justification myth.
    The pedigree/smalll-fluffy breed preference and pet culture of Korea while mistakenly believing that what goes to dog meat restaurants are some different special breed is deplorable in its ignorance.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    괜찮습니다. The Cove 도 이미 봤지요.
    위에서도 얘기했듯이, 현실을 직시하는 것은 쉽지 않으니까요. 한국에서는 특히 정직한 자기분석이 많이 부족한 것 같아서요, 언론이건, 정치건, 사람들은 물론. 다른 나라를 비난할 때에는 적어도 그 부분에 있어서는 자신들은 어떤가를 잘 파악하고 있어야 한다고 봅니다.

  • JinJoo

    “By the way what some Korean categorize as 똥개 variety, is exactly where the mistake starts from. A dog is a dog, and there’s no such breed which was developed “for meat” and “battery farming” it’s a Korean justification myth….”

    Geez, I am really ashamed I mentioned 똥개. Yes, you are right, a dog is a dog and there’s no such breed which was developed “for meat” and “battery farming”.

    I eat meat too, but seeing animals suffering and being indifferent (or even enjoying watching) about it tells ……..

    Even carnivorous animals kill their prey first before they eat it.