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Chinese tourists feel disrespected in Korea: Ye Olde Chosun

Despite being the biggest customers in the Korean tourism market—both in terms of numbers and money spent—many Chinese tourists come away with bad feelings.

Or so reports the Chosun Ilbo, citing a poll it took of 100 Chinese tourists in Myeong-dong, Dongdaemun and Gangnam taken last year.

A full 25% of respondents said their image of Korea worsened after actually visiting the country. In particular, 37% responded that they were the target of real or perceived contempt from Koreans. Only 10% said they’d felt such contempt when traveling in other countries, which would suggest—says the Chosun—that globe-trotting Chinese tourists get such a strongly negative impression only in Korea.

Chinese not only accounted for a full third of all the foreigners who entered Korea last year, but they also spend the most money here. In 2012, the average Chinese tourist spent USD 2,153.7 in Korea, 140% the foreign tourist average of USD 1,529.5. They also spent USD 378 per day; likewise, this was the highest among foreign tourists. Chinese tourists are also responsible for a considerable amount of added value—perhaps as much as KRW 7 trillion’s worth.

Of the disrespected Chinese tourists, 12 said they were verbally disrespected, 11 pointed to facial expressions, and eight cited body language.

One 20-something Chinese tourist the Chosun met in Myeong-dong recently was pissed off about an incident that took place in a subway. On the second day of her visit, she was talking in Chinese with her friend on the subway when an ajumma tapped her with her foot and motioned for her to go into another carriage. She could feel the contempt in her eyes, she said. At Dongdaemun Market, the only time she felt welcomed was when she handed over money.

When Chinese tourists head off the major tourist track, things get even worse. Volunteer Chinese interpreters say the places about which they get the most complaints are the well-known beauty salons in places like Sinchon and Apgujeong (Marmot’s Note: Well-known hair stylists? Being dicks? To tourists? Noooooooooooooooo!). One volunteer said he took a 20-something Chinese woman to a hair stylist in front of Ewha, but when they got there the owner’s faced turned sour. The volunteer said the open display of dislike was embarrassing.

Despite this, Korean officials are still saying there’s nothing to worry about. A government survey on inbound tourism taken this year showed the Chinese tourists were highly satisfied with their travel experience, scoring 4.14 points out of 5. This was the same level of satisfaction as the total average. Experts say this is an illusion, however. The government polls are often given of tourist groups at select shopping malls, hotels and restaurants—places where tourists are unlikely to meet the “real Korea,” so to speak.

China experts warn the impact of this goes beyond money—it could affect the entire Sino-Korean relationship. One foundation director head said the Sino-Korean relationship was an important matter on which Korea’s future depended, and lessening the gap in culture and values was the basis of diplomacy, both at the private and government levels. He added that this social value was a national asset much more important than money.

Marmot’s Note: Being from New York, I just naturally assume tourists are treated like jerks and am pleasantly surprised when they aren’t.

Speaking of which, somebody posted this on Facebook yesterday. I thought it was hella funny:

Anyway, Korean readers, on your way home today, please hug a Chinese tourist. They apparently need one.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    This isn’t surprising, but it certainly is sad. When I mention Myeong-dong, most of my Korean acquaintances roll their eyes and mutter something about Chinese tourists. When I ask them what’s wrong with Chinese visitors, they complain that they speak Chinese out loud and take pictures everywhere.

    Visit Korea!!! On our terms, of course. Bring your money. Stick to tourist zones. And don’t speak other Asian languages. Remember, bring money.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Is that necessarily a bad thing?

  • kaizenmx

    China dont realize that they are the most despised tourists in other parts of the world as well.

  • Guest

    You mean as well as Koreans.

    I can’t believe only 25% felt their image of Korea had worsened. From dramas with beautiful actresses which they must be used to, to ajumas spitting and hawking up on the subway.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    Visit Korea!!! On our terms, of course. Bring your money. Stick to tourist zones. And don’t speak other Asian languages. Remember, bring money.

    Don’t just bring it. Leave it. All of it.

  • pawikirogii

    well, is this not surprising as well? from the doj:

    Foreign visitor arrivals: 10.7 million, +5.5% year-on-year;

    China: 3.9 million, +43.6%;
    Japan: 2.7 million, -22.4%;
    US: 743,017, +1.2%;
    Taiwan: 566,200, -0.7%;
    Hong Kong: 391,340, +11.2%.

    sorry to deflate your man , guy.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    What is the “doj”?

  • Sammy

    I went to Jeju with my girlfriend last fall. We stopped at a jimjilbang before gettting on the plane so my gf could wash the salt water off. When she was drying her hair, a little Chinese boy started sucking on her nipple. She was appalled and complained to the staff, who shrugged it off. The Chinese bring money. I understand this, but Chinese (mainlainders, that is, overseas Chinese don’t draw my ire) are pestilence.

  • aligner

    I believe your girlfriend’s block and defence reflexes are also in question here.

  • Ding Jinhao

    “Ding Jinhao visited here.”

  • gbnhj

    On a related note, the Chosun also recently reported that Korea’s National Statistical Office has determined only 22.3% of the population believe they can trust non-Koreans. This places the country 14th out of the 22 OECD nations which also surveyed their citizens on this topic.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    I loved Johnny T.’s tourist tips. I visited New York City in 1993, whereupon I was promptly mugged, and again in 2012. The later visit was awesome. Quite literally the city so nice they named it twice. I’d better hurry back before de Blasio ruins it.

  • jenny

    Where in that article does it mention foreigners? It said strangers but that’s just about it.

  • kaizenmx

    yeah but chinese are much fucking worse

  • RElgin

    Humm, I think that title goes to Brits, especially in Europe. There are too many who are trouble-seeking drunks on vacation.

  • kaizenmx
  • Guest

    Next time, ask them whether they think they should be following the Korean tourists’ examples when overseas:

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/01/116_129743.html

  • Sumo294

    Lol . . . you should see how the Hong Kong people sneer at the Mainlanders. It is kinda funny when you see thirty Mainlanders huddled around to see the helicopter take off for Macau. It is even funnier to watch the Hong Kong people roll their eyes at them in horror as the Mainlanders spit everywhere.

  • Sumo294

    Hmmmnnn . . . Chinese people are learning that people do not speak Chinese in other countries! Chinese people are learning that other people do not eat Chinese food! Chinese people are learning that unless they pay cash they might even get ignored! Amazing–the stuff you learn when you travel outside your country the first time.

  • Sumo294

    Your average Chinese tourist wants you to speak to them in Chinese. When they travel to Korea they want to eat Chinese food. They want to be the center of attention and care on a value tour. Obviously we need a multi-million dollar feasibility study on how best Korea can meet Chinese expectations.

  • littlechinesenipplesucker

    She did seem quite pleased, though. I forgot to thank her. Sorry.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Yes, tourism is up. What is your point? Instead, show me some numbers on how many Koreans view Chinese as equals.

  • gbnhj

    You’re right – and I’m blushing. I mistook what Nathan wrote, but the original article definitely discusses a poll dealing with ‘낯선 사람들’, or ‘strangers’. Still, I don’t think it’s wrong to imagine that tourists would also be thought of as strangers by the general population, which is the relation I was trying to make.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Sounds more like a problem with the Korean management than with the Chinese.

  • http://www.eslwriting.org/ eslwriter

    I suspect the woman going to the hair shop may have wanted to recreate a scene from some TV drama.

    Instead she did get an authentic Korean experience.

  • redwhitedude

    Koreans have improved but the chinese are the ones making the waves. Just rude manners all over so much so that the chinese leadership has told them to clean up their act.

  • redwhitedude

    How about the clip on youtube about one of them losing their cool and yelling at a mainlander eating noodles on the subway.

  • Richard Hankin

    I am an avid, very avid amateur photographer. In that vein i often go to various photo sites for inspiration etc. One of the sites I go to is DigitalRev.com which is filmed in Hong Kong. Kai is the Chinese presenter. On more than one ocassion he has mocked/made fun of mainland Chinese. Evidently, from other sources, HK citizens like mainland Chinese money but consider them ‘country bumpkins” to use a VERY old arcane term!!!!

  • redwhitedude

    Aren’t these mainlanders referred to as locusts?

  • redwhitedude

    Huh? You think it is alright for a boy to runup to a woman at random and suck their nipple?

  • redwhitedude

    You also have to wonder how they get their cash given how their country is being run? Maybe relative who is in government took bribes left and right.

  • Richard Hankin

    I do not know. But i can say that as Kai walks the streets one can see long lines of mainlanders queing up at high end stores.
    Its been excellent news for the HK economy.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    No, of course not. Which is why (1) the management enforce an age limit on boys allowed in the women’s side and (2) the management should have dealt with the Chinese mother after the incident.

    I would also argue that parents need to supervise their kids better, but Korean parents are just as bad about letting their kids run amok.

  • redwhitedude

    Did you at least raise hell about it? To the kid and to the hotel?

  • redwhitedude

    When it fails raise hell.

  • setnaffa

    I guess the Chinese tourists feel just like us older, fatter, males from the USA feel… THERE’S your fair treatment.

  • djson1

    I was speaking with a taxi driver in Jeju (where they get a ton of Chinese tourists) and he said that most of them just start talking to him in Chinese and when he replies in Korean or broken English that he cannot understand Chinese, they just continue to speak louder in Chinese. haha

  • djson1

    If you don’t mind saying, about how old was this boy? I don’t understand why a little boy would want to run up to a stranger and just start nursing.

  • djson1

    Well, isn’t that the thinking of most countries? At least I feel Americans think this way too.
    We all know how rude many Koreans (especially merchants) can be to foreigners and tourists. However, I’m also surprised when I see how often many Koreans are so tolerant and patient as well.

  • ChuckRamone

    This happens to me in New York from time to time. Apparently, in their minds, they are still the Middle Kingdom – all Asians are or can speak Chinese.

  • wangkon936

    I was in Korea for a few weeks in 2012. I came back from some business I had to attend to in Shanghai. I have many Chinese American and Taiwanese friends and they are dear to me. However, both they and I agree that mainlander Chinese are not people that either of us would like to spend a lot of time with. Their standards of cleanliness and social norms are a notch below Western, Korean and Japanese standards.

    When I was at customs at Incheon Airport I was let off with all the other flights from the PRC and the lines at customs were full of mainlander Chinese. It was like unwashed masses of Visigoths clamoring to get into the gates of Rome.

  • wangkon936

    Exactly. I bet you that overseas Chinese in HK, Singapore or Taiwan feel the exactly same way about PRC tourists that the Koreans feel.

  • aligner

    Maybe you are a little young to realize this, but I think Koreans should let a few more decades past before venturing the chutzpah to criticise the Chinese too much on their behaviour when traveling overseas and in airports. In many ways Korea is still a work in progress in this regards.

  • wangkon936

    Understood, but not relevant to this topic.

  • aligner

    I see you didn’t understand what I meant.

  • wangkon936

    Your response was not immediately relevant to the topic of how Koreans view/treat tourists from the PRC. It appears to be more of a moral anecdote, right?

  • aligner

    No – I am observing that it is paradoxical that some Koreans view the behaviour of Chinese tourists as so abhorrent, when their behaviour within a period of one generation was very similar, and in many ways is still lacking today.

    Maybe you could call it a lack of self-awareness.

  • pawikirogii

    there’s nothing paradoxical about it there, guy. it’s called ‘human nature’. you know, just like you nursing your wounds you got in korea, jerk.

    btw, i’m happy you were mistreated in korea. i’ll bet you had a lot to do with that seeing your nasty attitiude and all. how’s that for some schadenfreude?

  • pawikirogii

    lol! why don’t you show me some stats on whether whites think chinese are their equals. we know the answer to that, don’t we?

  • pawikirogii

    the stats are from their justice department

  • redwhitedude

    Irrelevant. I’m sure everybody at the stage that the chinese are now were at the same level in which case nobody would have anybody to criticize anybody if we follow your logic. But that is not the point. It is about NOW and Chinese coming to visit Korea. Heck you hear about crap about them from Hong Kong and Taiwan. Maybe you need to look clips up in youtube.

  • kaizenmx

    Considering the fact that even Hong Kong people hate the chinese tourists, that’s saying something.

  • redwhitedude

    But we are dealing about NOW and where Chinese and Koreans stand in manners NOW. Older Koreans do recall that Koreans used to have manners like mainland chinese now. But that is not the point of WangKon936′s comment.

  • redwhitedude

    They are pretty dense now but I think eventually they’ll realize that the world isn’t China and they really need to clean up. Given the sheer number of them it is going to take a long time. Maybe by the middle of this century they would have cleaned up enough to be where Koreans are now. But from what I hear Japanese are the best in this.

  • redwhitedude

    Wasn’t there a beef about a while back about department stores discriminating against locals?

  • aligner

    Yawn ….

  • kaizenmx

    Even koreans weren’t that bad compared to today’s chinese tourists.

    The Esler is at it again, huh? LMFAO…

  • aligner

    The behavior of Koreans overall NOW still leaves much to be desired – there, does that make you feel better?

  • redwhitedude

    I wasn’t boosting Koreans and I heard they are still a work in progress. Japanese are still eons ahead of Koreans.

    FYI no it does not make me feel better.

  • redwhitedude

    Heck even prostitutes in Japan are complaining about these Chinese. LOL

  • somms

    While I’m sure there are plenty of horrible Korean tourists, there are just so many more Chinese tourists, wherever you go. That being said, I’ve never really had any bad experiences with any particular group of tourists.

  • wangkon936

    I don’t really think Koreans are thinking about it in the manner you described. I don’t really think they should either. Remember, Koreans are viewing certain social norms by certain people as they are done by visitors while in their country. Thus, they have a right to complain.

    Now, if Koreans were in the U.S. and doing certain things that were offensive to Americans, then Americans have the right to complain also. Hosts have the right to have certain expectations of their guests. Otherwise, they will be seen as unwelcomed guests. I think my point is that mainlander Chinese often don’t make the most pleasant guests. If this is so, their hosts have more than a right to complain. It is their country, after all.

    There are instances where hosts complain about Korean guests and I think that’s fine as well. They have a right. Again, it is their country after all.

    Check this out: http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/09/24/no-koreans-allowed/

  • redwhitedude

    Now to make that article to the discussion what about Chinese buying sex?

  • redwhitedude

    Next thing you know chinese will be coming to Korea for English lessons.

  • redwhitedude

    But it is true. Nobody is saying that Koreans at the same level as chinese.

  • dlbarch

    If any Chinese tourists who feel they were dissed in Korea are reading this, let me personally extend an invitation to visit San Francisco…where they SHOULD have traveled to in the first place!
    DLB

  • wangkon936

    If you had a million of them coming a month, you would think differently.

  • kaizenmx

    Give people of san francisco a break. Even they don’t deserve this.

  • dlbarch

    Actually, probably not. I don’t know about Korea, but the average tourist from China drops about $3,000 during his or her visit to SF. I now my own experience with wine tourism in Napa is now heavily reliant on Chinese tourism, and I would take a doubling of tourists from China in a heartbeat.

    But back to Korea. Someone needs to remind the locals that the take-away “profit” from one tourist to Korea is greater than the export of one Korean automobile.

    Which might explain why Korea has been keen to develop its tourism market since even before the Olympics.

    DLB

  • dlbarch

    Well, to be fare, SF itself is only about 800,000 people. Seoul is, um, considerably larger, so, yeah, I get that.

    On the other hand, could it be that Chinese tourists who head to Seoul are, well, on the lower end of the market?

    And thus, um, a bit rougher around the edges?

    DLB

  • sloppycho

    I’m going to quote this Chinese financial blogger who wrote about his family trip to the Magical Kingdom…

    This is where I was most upset. The service at the parks, in the resorts, and in the transportation most notably were awful. I cannot believe the number of rude and downright truculent Disney cast members I ran into.

    I will give an example that gets my neck red to this day. Several members of my party from China do not speak any English as I imagine many of Disney’s guests don’t. We were taking a boat ride from downtown Disney back to our resort when one member of our party stood up on the shuttle boat to take pictures.

    The captain of the boat had earlier announced that passengers had to remain seated at all times for safety purposes. Unfortunately, the person in my party did not understand. As soon as I saw him stand up, I told him he had to sit, which he did immediately.

    But the Captain literally went bonkers like the demon in Fantasia. He started screaming and glaring at him and waving his arms as if the person in my party was an idiot. It certainly was not good-natured fun.

    I said, “The guy does not speak English. He is from China. As soon as we told him he had to sit, he sat. You don’t need to keep going on.”

    The Captain kept yelling and flapping his arms, so I said “There really is no need to be rude and make a scene. He did not understand your announcement.”

    The Captain then started screaming at me. He stopped the boat for and yelled, “You wanna get off my boat. I am the only captain here. You want to get off my boat!”

    I was really shocked at the Captain’s behavior.

    When I called twice to complain to the guest relations number, no real apology was given to me, and I did not see a resolution to the problem. More disconcerting was that I found that the Captain’s behavior was similar to the boorish behavior I ran into several times from cast members.

    This happened at Disneyworld! Imagine what happens at other places with surly, underpaid teens and twenty-year olds in “less glamorous” settings.

    This blog post he wrote is quite old, written in 2006 but I remembered it all these years because it was pretty evident this was going to be a long term trend and something that was bound to happen wherever Chinese tourists visit in large numbers.

  • wangkon936

    DLB,

    That is entirely possible, just like Americans who go to Tijuana (vs. even Cancun or Puerto Vallarta) are probably American tourists on the lower end of the market.

  • kaizenmx

    Nice generalization. Typical.

  • sloppycho

    Here is a quote from this article on Chinese tourists.

    “There’s a lot of this kind of uncivilized behavior out there,” said Zhang. “Take for example the sign outside the Louvre Museum only in Chinese characters that forbids people from urinating or defecating wherever they want.”

    I think you’re living in a bubble in SF and not the internet kind.

  • dlbarch

    Yup. The funny thing is, this same phenomenon exists even within Korea. What young, affluent Korean couple goes to Jeju-do for their honeymoon anymore? That used to be a right of passage. Now, not so much.

    DLB

  • dlbarch

    No, sadly, our homeless have cornered the market on public defecation.

    DLB

  • RElgin

    I don’t think so. It is a strange human foibles and no more.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Indeed. Nothing will teach Chinese to stay in their own country like a couple of days dealing with aggressive panhandling.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “Their standards of cleanliness and social norms are, at least at this
    time, a notch below Western, Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese standards”

    Chinese standards may be a notch below Korean, but please don’t put Korea in the same group as Japan and the West. Spitting, cigarette butt throwing, public vomiting, filthy bathrooms with no soap or hot water, pushing in public places… This puts Korea a notch or two below Japan and the West.

  • Richard Hankin

    I suspect based on what I have seen and read, that there are very long lines to get into stores even department stores and locals do not want to wait hours to shop.

  • dlbarch

    You know, it kinda strange, but in all my years in SF, i have never been “aggressively” panhandled. Asked for change, sure, but most of the homeless I encounter are just sad, broken souls with a cardboard sign and a McDonald’s cup for whatever loose change fabulously more wealthy passersby happen to toss in.

    Of course, it helps being a 6’4″, 220 lbs. white male, but still….

    Cheers,
    DLB

  • pawikirogii

    never beenharrassed in the city. only thing about the place that detracts from its charm is the smell of dried urine and garbage.

  • wangkon936

    I offer to buy food often to pan handlers and then the truth comes out: “what I really want is a cigarette or a beer.”

    That’s why I never give them any money.

  • PortaJohn

    Hard to feel pity for the Chinese on this one.. I remember back when mass numbers of them quite literally ran amok during the runup to the Olympics in Beijing. It was only surpassed in how pathetic it was by the meek response of the Korean authorities.

  • Sanshinseon

    It is a problem, but far from an unusual or unsolvable one. This cycle of behavior and perceptions gets repeated whenever large waves of new tourists start flocking to any destination — it has ever since wealthy Romans started doing excursions to Greece to see the ‘old temples’. I’m old enough to remember when most of these same complaints were made against Americans, then Brits & Germans, then Japanese (some still are; ask the Thais).

    The Korean & Chinese attitudes towards each other comes out of a long history, we all know — things go far deeper than behavior perceived in 2013, and add extra complications. Speaking as a Tourism prof: We will work thru this, as we always have…

  • sloppycho

    This type of reasonable, thoughtful response is so “alien” and rare for this blog that I was like… WTF! when I finished reading it. It was unexpected but appreciated… by me at least. :)

  • platethief

    Koreans in America are dirty, violent, visa-flouting, volatile mass-killers.

    I trust you won’t have any problem with that assertion since, as this is being typed in America I am ‘viewing certain social norms by certain people as they are done by visitors while in [my] country.’

  • wangkon936

    How many Korean Americans have you met?

  • George Deftereos

    You know, you can replace ‘Chinese’ with Korean here.
    How else do you explain that when Koreans travel they refer to the locals as 외국인? At least that is what my coworkers do, even though most have graduated from SKY. Or that they actually carry their own food from Korea with them?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Because 외국인 does not mean foreigner, per se, but ‘outsider.’ Inside-outside are relative terms; relative, of course, to the person speaking. Hence, anyone who isn’t an insider, i.e. a Korean, would be an outsider, i.e. 외국인. This does not change with geography.

  • brier

    The Chinese tourists do seem a bit naive in
    regard with what to expect. Then again,
    they are paying money and like anybody, want quality for the money they hand
    over. I can understand them, and sympathize
    a bit. The quality of the retail/service
    market (outside of kiss-your-ass top end) is dismal. I find the longer I am here, the more careful
    and selective I am about where, when, and how I purchase. Dealing with cheerless, humorless, and half disdainful
    service personal, (or overly helpful and won’t leave you alone, eyes blinking with won signs.) more often than
    not is wearisome. I feel dirty and
    cheated handing over money.

  • Guest

    Koreans complaining about the behaviour of tourists in their country whilst completely oblivious to even greater crimes committed by their own whilst ‘touring’. Simple enough for ya?

  • aligner

    I am sure that Korean tourists improved greatly in the past thanks to such helpful guidebooks as these.

    (I sure many of you have seen this before and wish I could give credit to the source. And for those of you easily offended types – do lighten up a bit).

  • Guest

    How about this one, fresh in:

    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2014/01/17/odds-and-ends-boycott-mcdonalds/

    See, like you, I’ve based my stereotypes on first-hand experience (Korean tourists in HK), anecdotes (Koreans running the sex industry in Japan), sweeping charcterisations based on extreme cases (Virginia Tech massacre) and broad generalizations (they’re all the same!).

    But you just carry on with your ‘Koreans are better than Chinese’ argument and I’ll see you back here when you’re up in arms again about whitey being a small-minded racist and how the Japs hate and view themselves as superior to their neighbours.

  • Sanshinseon

    Thanks, sloppycho; it’s nice to (virtually) meet you. I’m an oldtimer on this venerable blog, but don’t comment much. Dunno why my avatar no longer appears…

  • Guest

    What he means is – ‘Don’t you dare point out the rank hypocrisy’.

  • ChuckRamone

    To be fair, I’ve noticed in Japan also you rarely have a bathroom with hot water and soap. No paper towels either. Unless you’re in a dense urban area.

  • ChuckRamone

    What was she supposed to do? Clothesline some little kid or even expect something like that to happen?

  • redwhitedude

    Or perhaps chinese who bitch about others while they are oblivious to their misdeeds.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Makes one realize how annoying the Chinese are that they can bring so many regular people to a state of rage.

  • ChuckRamone

    I just learned the term “sore winner” – they use the term in sports to refer to people who are dicks about winning. Your humor here, and insisting that people “lighten up” is an example of this kind of behavior. You’re not posting this in good-natured fun. You’re just doing it to grate on people’s nerves.

  • sloppycho

    Well, I hope you comment more in the future to help balance out the crazies on both sides.

    You need to sign-up for disqus.com, claim your username there and upload your avatar. Disqus is the commenting system used here now. Your wordpress account was not migrated over.

  • seouldout

    It’s also called gloating. You’ll see it often enough when Koreans interact with people from poorer, duskier countries.

  • aligner

    You mean my commenting and observations are so good I should learn to be more magnanimous about it?

  • wangkon936

    “Koreans are better than Chinese’ argument”

    When did I say that? Better in what way? Better tourists? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly a lot less of them in a given place. And Koreans are well behaved inside Korea.

  • seouldout
  • ChuckRamone

    Not particularly. You’re like a red-headed stepchild who’s running wild around a bunch of adults, pulling shitty pranks. Everyone tolerates it and they can’t really do anything about it because you’re not their kid, so they try to act amused. You know they can’t do anything, so you keep doing it. That’s you gloating, being a sore winner.

    This next part hasn’t happened yet, but it probably will.

    And then out of the blue your stepfather smacks you across the room. You rub your cheek in shock and then burst violently into tears. All the adults feel kinda bad but they’re not sorry it happened.

  • aligner

    Sorry, I think you have the roles reversed here.

    It appears to me that I am conversing with you in a calm and reserved manner (alright I do admit to some sarcasm), and it is you who is responding like a petulant child.

  • ChuckRamone

    Is this the I’m rubber and you’re glue game? Or I know you are but what am I?

  • redwhitedude

    Funny how certain post here deflect the subject of Chinese tourists grumbling about Korea and their poor manners to Koreans are sh*t manners. I sense an agenda in those people. And it’s not like the people that are commenting about chinese tourist are saying Koreans are exemplary tourists.

  • redwhitedude

    From what I hear about Chinese tourist is that they carry wads of cash in their wallets. You know that you shouldn’t do that if you were a tourist. So they do splurge when they travel. And this is from what I hear from down under and in Europe. I can imagine they would become a favorite target for pickpockets because of this.

  • redwhitedude

    Unfortunately $$$$ they bring is more powerful than complaints about them.

  • redwhitedude

    How about those homeless people that pose as cartoon characters and demand that tourists take pictures with them for a price. Really sad. The panhandling thing you mention just reminded me of this.

  • pawikirogii

    lol! are you just finding that out?

  • redwhitedude

    Chinese tourist though seriously need to remediate all these courses.

  • redwhitedude

    Don’t want to be pointing things like this out until it becomes really obvious.

  • http://www.globalasianculture.com Liz

    Robert thanks for posting this. I have strong feelings about this topic because I did write a news piece about Chinese in South Korea but I think it helps a whole lot more to see Sinophobia as a complicated global phenomenon. On the grad school front close to 40 percent of internationals are now from China — polled survey showed only 30 percent had intentions to repatriate to China after graduation from a US school. So education is a channel of immigration — and I think many Americans are expecting a significant surge in mainland Chinese immigration especially in major metropoles where skilled labor is needed.

    On the everyday level in New York I see sentiments ranging from aversion to pretense of indifference to the new Chinese (aka non-tourists). One educator said China applications to one grad school program are carefully screened and often rejected because of confirmation Chinese applicants are falsifying essays (hiring Western writing coaches) in order win admission. I’ve heard complaints from American students who complain their Chinese peers either never participate in class or are too aggressive/gung-ho in their approach to education. The greatest irony is these are people who identify themselves as progressive — some of them are Asian American.

    As for myself and my own experiences what I’ve observed is a deft manipulation of the Chinese students to want whatever it is that defines corporate success and financial remuneration. They want the same things their American peers want, except they have little advantage over them. America for them is still better than China — although I am puzzled by this phenom — the United States is probably experiencing one of the most anti-Chinese moments in its recent history in a time when China probably offers more opportunity for people like themselves. With all the racism and language/cultural barriers they face in America, I am always surprised they insist on staying.

  • Arghaeri

    Damn, it thought sharing my life with all these inferiors!!!

  • Arghaeri

    I hear its the Americans, especially in places like Iraq & Afghanistan….

  • Arghaeri

    LOL sounds like the typical Brit abroad.

  • Arghaeri

    to use a VERY old arcane term!!!!

    Is there any other type of arcane, the nearly new arcane? :/)

  • Arghaeri

    Nothing new, there’s a similar term in my native language!!!

  • Arghaeri

    Curious, where did he mention Korean Americans?

  • Arghaeri

    Hummm… you spell “neighbors” like “neighbours” so you are a non-American

    Relevance please? It may have escaped your notice but most of the world isn’t American.

  • Arghaeri

    Sounds much like most of the west I’ve visited, have you not travelled much?

  • Arghaeri

    What is this obsession with hot water in toilets if its hot enough to kill any germs then its gonna give you third degree burns!!!!!

  • Arghaeri

    Somewhat different since that derives from the time when before 1988 when foreign travel was heavily restricted, and dosn’t apply to only the rich, since its now probably cheaper to do Thailand than Jeju.

  • Arghaeri

    Plenty of panhandling in Beijing, although its on a somewhat different level when they’re asking for your empty plastic water bottles!!!!

  • Arghaeri

    I’ve never uploaded a picture to disqus, it uses my WordPress one, but do have to register.

  • Arghaeri

    Are you upset it’s created by a gloating American?

  • Arghaeri

    Uh? English please?

  • aligner

    Well, things certainly might have gotten a lot stickier if said boy had been in the men’s locker room and had gotten confused at the sight of a cock-legged Ajeossi blow-drying his pubes.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    Agreed – Japan could do a better job when it comes to hot water and soap. But public spaces in Japan are pristine. No spit, no butts, no vomit. Japanese people que up nicely for public transit and older women don’t cut in front of you at every opportunity.

  • MikeinGyeonggi

    “What is this obsession with hot water in toilets…”

    Warm water loosens dirt and germs so they can be washed away. Have you ever washed dishes with cold water vs hot water? Hot water works much better.

    It’s disturbing that I have to explain how proper hand-washing works to an adult.

  • Aja Aja

    Western public bathrooms (North American) are not clean, I’m sorry but that’s not true. I’ve traveled throughout the US and Canada, and usually the pubic toilets are disgustingly filthy (I can never sit on them without getting someone else’s crap all over my ass) and smelly (piss poor job of airconditioning?) and there’s hardly any maintenance done during the regular hours, they become germ city in no time. If all you have to do is to urinate, fine. If you need to do #1, it becomes bit of a problem.

  • redwhitedude

    What do you mean?

  • ChuckRamone

    I just wish he’d stop pretending he’s sincerely kidding around with some pals. His sole purpose here is to nag and talk shit.

  • redwhitedude

    Soon you’ll be hearing about chinese getting banned.

  • ChuckRamone

    The projected population of Asian Americans in 2050 is about 9-10% of the whole US population. Does that seem accurate to you? Maybe it’s an underestimate, but if it’s true, seems like people’s fears are unfounded.

  • takasar1

    so…out of the tens of millions that travel abroad, all of them have relations to the ccp…yeah, ok

  • takasar1

    shit, substitute ‘british’ for ‘chinese’ and you very easily find yourself another cute little statement.

  • redwhitedude

    Do you have to be in the CCP to be corrupt? No. Also the CCP has tens of millions of members.

  • redwhitedude

    Except English is the international language unlike chinese which is spoken primarily by chinese in china and outside of china.

  • takasar1

    yes…about that…please remind me when you last saw british food or the £ in a european country? besides, why do we seem to be deviating from our discussion? i’m guessing that since english is “an international language”, people should expect it to be spoken to in english in a country where it isn’t the primary or even secondary language…

  • takasar1

    well, since you made 2 obvious references to them, i’m quite confident that’s what you meant. you seem to forget that the vast majority of the members dont get any real power. they join purely for higher education/jobs perks, they don’t exactly have the money or the power to commandeer thousands

  • redwhitedude

    You are the one who is deviating this discussion by throwing back the original point to the person that made the original point with british.

  • redwhitedude

    True but in order to get position of any significance you have to be a CCP member hence people join the CCP. It doesn’t guarantee that but practically everybody that wants to make their way up like that has to join the CCP. And this is not about commandeering thousands it is about abusing their position with a legal system that is murky and gets hijack by the CCP as demonstrated by the Bo Xilai case.

  • redwhitedude

    Well Koreans are far from ideal but the Chinese are stealing the spotlight by their conduct.

  • Eric0912

    But New Yorkers are super nice to tourists, as all other Americans? Or did I misunderstand the sarcasm again.

  • Simon Stubbs

    Is it surprising? Koreans are rude to everyone, its like manners and common courtesy weren’t part of their evolution. I used to think it was arogance but no its a failure to evolve.

  • seouldout

    ” If all you have to do is to urinate, fine. If you need to do #1, it becomes bit of a problem.”

    #1 is urinate. #2 is poo.

  • seouldout

    Actually untrue. What is considered manners and common courtesy is largely sucking up to the elder, especially the elder male, for instance special words (honorific verbs) for the senior, deeper bows, turning one’s head when drinking, etc.

  • SugarFruit

    Most of these Chinese who come to the USA, Korea, German and other countries as students are sponsored by CCP; they can be potential spies. CCP will make sure most of them stay in the USA.

    http://www.creators.com/opinion/phyllis-schlafly/spying-and-stealing-by-communist-china.html

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/5929-chinese-spying-in-the-united-states

    One fourth of the earth’s population are Chinese. They have been boasting that they can invade any country with their population. What if the Chinese, who are loyal to China, legally attain US citizenship and have rights for voting? They can choose the president they are pleased
    with. (based on many circumstantial evidences, many Koreans believe that CCP were behind Kim Young-Sam, Kim Dae-Jung and Lee Myoung-Bak. I will talk about it next time.)

    Anyway, Obama, it seems at the moment, is very pro-China, and San Francisco already has a Chinese mayor and as far as I know the state has strong anti-Japanese sentiment.

    There was an interview with Dr Peter Navarro, an economist (who wrote and produced a documentary film titled ‘Death by China’).

    Five chinese, including one pretending to be an American, criticize Dr Navarro, calling him xenophobia. These Chinese could be so-called 50 cents party who work for CCP. Who knows, there could be 50 cents party within Marmot’s Hole too.

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-22/q-and-a-peter-navarro-on-americas-death-by-china

    http://www.creators.com/opinion/phyllis-schlafly/spying-and-stealing-by-communist-china.html

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/5929-chinese-spying-in-the-united-states

  • RElgin

    This is not always the case. The PRC Government can always put pressure upon any Chinese citizen to spy for them and it is difficult to say no considering the implications for your family back home or your career future.

  • SugarFruit

    Whether these students were sponsored before coming to the USA or approached while studying in the USA with threat and/or money….they DO become potential spies.

    http://rt.com/usa/american-universities-scientific-espionage-687/

  • takasar1

    no, OP is creating a strawman argument, (where does the article say anything about any/all chinese tourists making demands for chinese food, chinese currency, or proficiency in the chinese language?), i am merely calling him out on this by telling him that those are quite stupid claims since the Spanish, french, germans and even us swiss, often complain about british arrogance when travelling abroad. i could very easily have used americans, australians or even koreans themselves to make a point. i just chose the british, you are simply assuming things.

  • takasar1

    this isn’t the nineties, do you think that all of the 80 million or so ccp members get equal or similar treatment/power? so many people simply join for a period and then leave when they realize that they have a) no more need for it after getting accepted into university, or b) never had any kind of influence while a member. there are thousands who gain power by not joining the ccp, these people look local, build relations with local leaders and go from there, all the while independent of the party. yes, and by abusing the legal system, they are, in effect, commandeering thousands, be it by land purchases, claiming university places, bribery or by simply abusing other privileges. the bo ilai case involves no one else within the party except xi jinping, who had a desire to move china along a path of his creation, and so disposed of Bo. it has nothing to do with the other members of the party. his removal was orchestrated by the big kahuna, no one else.

  • redwhitedude

    It was never equal among the party members even if that is the official propaganda about them. CCP membership has advantages in jobs, universities and so forth. People are bound to join it for that rather than true ideological reasons. I fail to see how this would have changed since the 90s. Also even if nonparty members had power it is mostly local if they wanted to move up better join up the CCP. It is not non party members abusing power it is also the party abusing power. They have monopoly of power at least at the national level. They can do whatever they want and carry out their agenda in abusive ways. The reason I brought up the Bo Xilai case was that the trial was orchestrated it was a like a prescripted play that the party leadership wanted to play out in a certain way so they tampered with evidence and just interfered with the judicial process.They basically can do whatever they want with impunity.

  • redwhitedude

    Sad really. All those TV dramas are more effective than official Chinese propaganda.

  • redwhitedude

    That could be true if your only exposure to Koreans is what the media reports of Koreans.

  • ssamzi

    No. Koreans are in general very cautious and courteous around people who are deemed higher in their social hierarchy, even changing their language.

  • George Deftereos

    We have the descriptive meaning of the word and the prescriptive. The word makes no sense at all if Korean’s use it to describe people in their own country when they are visiting from Korea, since by that definition it is the the Korean that is the outsider.
    I’m waiting for Korean travellers to describe themselves as 외국인 but I really don’t think that will ever happen since in practice that word means ‘foreigner’ and is used to describe people who aren’t Korean no matter where they are. One could easily say ‘호주사람’ to refer to Australians when travelling in Australia but once you start describing the ‘Other’ it becomes harder to see them as nothing more than the ‘other’.

  • pawikirogii

    it means ‘non korean’ ok? there’s a cultural meaning to the word and you should already know that. move on, sir.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    In Korea both meanings line up. You are both an outsider to the Korean society, and a foreigner, geographically. Think of it as the use of the word “we.” It makes perfect sense to use it in the US when spoken BETWEEN Koreans. Would it make sense when spoken between an American and a Korean in the US? Of course not. Why would Koreans describe themselves as 외국인? Its like using “they” to speak of themselves.

  • takasar1

    well, yes, you simply reiterated my point. the nineties was the time when this whole ‘ccp rush’ first came about. suffice to say that many people’s expectations have been crushed by now; joining the ccp doesn’t bring about the benefits they are seeking due to the fact that if everybody has the same idea, then the criteria must be changed. no it would be better not to join the ccp in that case, since membership comes with the loss of autonomy and if one has money, then it would be best to simply operate locally, as the vast majority of chinese millionaires do. how is it? so every abuse of power in china is a result of the ccp?? relations with the ccp counts as a black stain on them?? well of course they have a monopoly, as does the ruling elite of almost every nation around the world today. others simply color code it and are better at hiding their dirty laundry. i could have told you all about NSA surveillance back in 2007 if i wanted to. of course they trialed Bo, anyone who knows anything about china’s current reform climate would know that an imbecile, hard-line maoist like Bo was on borrowed time from the moment the party internally appointed Xi. they didn’t exactly doctor evidence, the man was guilty, there can be no doubt about that, the real question is; how many politicians are not guilty? at this point, very few in china care about their ‘lack of freedom’, they may occasionally grumble and some may protest but the fact is that they trust the CCP since the party has made them, on average, more wealthy than any emperor or republic in their history, all within 30 years. foreign collected statistics prove this. bread will always trump ballot.

  • Doge Wallace

    Simon Stubbs, thank you for being honest about your feelings.

  • wangkon936

    Okay… Korean Americans and Koreans in America I use interchangeably for the sake of the argument in this thread.

  • Arghaeri

    Hot water melts grease etc on plates, aided by soap/detergent.

    The average persons hands are not so caked up in grease, soap is sucficient to remove the dirt and grease on an average public toilet users.

  • Arghaeri

    Exactly, please enlighten us!!

  • Arghaeri

    Seems like you lack the courtesy to learn about the culture you’re living in.