UPDATE: A commenters takes issue with ZenKimchi’s quote, namely, the part about “the only way to be a long-term resident is to have Korean DNA, marry a Korean, or invest $100,000 to open a business.” Fair enough—there’s the point-based F-2 visa. Granted, by late 2011—a year and eight months after the program went into effect—only 155 people had gotten point-based F-2s (out of a population of over 128,000 who were eligible) in part thanks to poor promotion that one article suggested might not be unintentional. Said commenters suggests the numbers have improved with 165 getting F-2-7s and 655 getting F2-99 (“that’s the visa that is given out with 5 years continuous living, also requires zero money investment and no marriage to a Korean”). I’m sure things are improving, although I’ll let you decide for yourself what that those numbers mean in a country of 50 million people with a resident foreigner population of 1.4 million. For that matter, feel free to download the latest immigration stats and decide for yourself what those numbers mean, too.
UPDATE: Twitter K. Slothus (blog here) notes:
@rjkoehler Consider the source of that ranking, and note it in your blog post: a survey of executives attending the WEF. Not so credible.
— K. Slothus (@Slothus) March 22, 2013
From the report:
The Survey is carried out among chief executive officers and top business leaders in all economies covered by our research; these are the people making the investment decisions in their respective economies. The Survey provides unique data on many qualitative institutional and business environment issues, as well as specific issues related to the T&T industry and the quality of the natural environment.
Doesn’t sound like a very wide group surveyed.
ORIGINAL POST
The World Economic Forum apparently compiled numbers on how welcoming nations are to foreign visitors. The WaPo also kind enough to map it, the result you can see here.
Sit down for this—Korea placed near the bottom of the list. Like 129th out of 140, tied with China, Saudi Arabia, Mongolia, Bulgaria and Slovakia.
On the bright side, Korea did beat out Pakistan and Iran, so it wasn’t a total loss. And with a bit of work, they can reach the level of legendarily foreigner-friendly Chad.
Japan placed 74th, which suggests you can run a restrictive immigration policy and still be considered friendly as long as you smile and women in service professions speak with high-pitched voices.
The WaPo’s Max Fisher was a bit surprised, but he thinks nationalism might have something to do with it:
One thing I’m struck by, in trying to puzzle out this map, is the apparent correlation between unfriendliness to foreigners and nationalism. That would maybe help to explain the low ratings for China and South Korea (although there are other possible factors here, including race) and for Russia. It might also help to explain why the United States, Germany and Japan — three countries with strongly nationalist histories — rank below other wealthy nations.
The nationalism theory makes a bit more sense when we look region-to-region. In Latin America, for example, a region generally friendly to foreigners, three countries stand out: Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. All three have governments that could be fairly described as nationalistic. It also makes some sense in the Middle East, where Saudi Arabia and Iran rank poorly among countries that generally court foreign tourism.
To be honest, one of the reasons I think the numbers are so low is because the question, “How welcome are foreign visitors to your country?” seems to have been directed at Koreans themselves. And yes, you’ll often hear Koreans talk about how welcoming they are to visitors—something I don’t think is necessarily untrue, BTW—and from time to time you’ll find a “foreigners love Korea” pep-talk story in the press, but Koreans know they lag behind the West in the multiculti department—something I don’t think is necessarily bad, BTW—and that their society remains somewhat provincial.
That said, sure, the low numbers are probably earned, and yeah, nationalism probably has a lot to do with it. I don’t think Korea is an especially unfriendly place, per se. I was just in Goesan—pretty much as provincial a town as you can get—and folk were really nice (including the 119 rescue personnel who had to help me off a mountain when I fell, screwed up my arm and lost my glasses coming down as it got dark—lovely gentlemen they were). As long as you show respect, you’ll be treated just fine.
The problems really become apparent when you try to settle here for a longer period of time. That’s when you’ve really, really got to work to gain acceptance… or at least find a niche.
For starters, moves by the government to effect some sort of minimal multiculturalism aside, Koreans largely want to keep Korea Korean, and immigration policy reflects this.
Then there’s the questions of connections. Even if you manage to learn the language and understand the culture, you’ll probably still lack the personal connections and social base that Koreans have been building since birth. Nobody knows anything about you—your hometown, your family, your school, nothing. You’re a person without roots.
Even without the additional issue of racism—which you’ll confront, too, with a direct relationship between the level of racism and the concentration of melanin in your skin—it’s a high barrier to overcome. What do you talk about when you go drinking with people who lived through dictatorship and forced-march industrialization? About going to Islanders games when you were a kid?
And yes, there’s the nationalism issue. For the record, I actually like the nationalism. I think it’s great that Koreans take pride in their people, their culture and their history. If anything, I wish this pride were a little deeper—I think you’ll find that like in many post-colonial countries, once you scratch the nationalist surface, you’ll find a lot of self-loathing and “colonization of the mind.” But yeah, some of the cruder expressions of that nationalism can turn foreigners off. I also think the nationalism presents barriers in another way—because it’s based on a national inferiority complex (particular in regards to the West and Japan), there is an assumption that foreigners look down on Koreans. Hence the reactions you sometimes get when you say or write anything critical of anything Korean.
BTW, Joe of Zenkimchi left a very good comment on the WaPo piece:
Having lived in South Korea for nine years, dealing with Immigration headaches, and seeing so many expats come and go, I’m not surprised by its ranking. Historically, Korea has been hostile to outsiders. Even though it talks a lot about opening up to the world, it gets skittish when it becomes a reality. Domestic news cycles go through blaming a different outsider group for their problems (U.S. soldiers, foreign English teachers, Japanese, Chinese-Koreans). The only way to be a long-term resident is to have Korean DNA, marry a Korean, or invest $100,000 to open a business (which is being increased to $300,000). And when a foreigner opens a business outside traditional foreign neighborhoods, I have seen many times other Korean businesses ganging up on it to knock it out of business. Foreign English teachers have to take HIV tests, implying that they’re diseased miscreants to the public.
I have rarely met a multi-generational immigrant, as in someone whose family moved here more than a generation ago. Foreigners tend to only stay for two years. Most people are friendly, but there is also a good bit of harassment and micro-aggressions that wear foreigners down to the point where they end up hating the country and leaving. I’ve been able to handle it, and I still enjoy it, though I have my dark days. But I have seen so many people break down. This isn’t an easy country for a foreigner to live in.
{ 90 comments… read them below or add one }
YES. YES, they are. In my experience…
Nah, it’s awesome. No law in South Korea. That’s what makes it the best.
There’s a
That’s a good comment from Joe. It’s absolutely true – this is a very unfriendly country, but it’s tolerable if you focus on the positives. The people are more xenophobic than most places, but it’s modern and clean(ish) and there’s lots to see.
I like Joe’s use of the term “micro-aggressions.” It sort of sounds like the kind of made-up bullshit word I would normally dismiss, but in this case, I know EXACTLY what he means, and I’ll bet other expats do as well.
For what it’s worth, I’m always telling newcomers and expats that whatever ill treatment they receive in Korea, it’s probably not because of racism. Koreans are assholes to other Koreans, too.
Did you even bother to look at the source of the study or did you just just decide to jump on the ignorant band wagon? The sources for this study are the world economic forum (whatever that exactly means) and an executive survey. Do you think either one of those things would have a genuine ability to accurately answer this question in all the countries?
and let’s not forget the zen kimchi lie.. E-2s have just as much chance to become a long termer if they actually want it. They just have to get a points visa. They can do so without investing any money or marrying a Korean or having Korean DNA. Fact checking, it’s just not for fox news!
I find Koreans to be friendly. But what do I know, I find New Yorkers and Parisians to be very friendly and helpful too.
I think the over friendliness from naive Koreans from what you call out of “jeong” will force culture onto foreigners. I think this is worse than being unfriendly because this is coercion.
I wonder if @ZenKimchi considers taking 몰래 pictures of Koreans at Costco and making fun of them on his blog as micro or macro-aggression”.^.^
Facepalm, tourism is one of the leading industries across the world – y’know, the sort of thing that drives economies around the world. If it came from CNN or another ‘news’ sources I’d be even more suspicious personally.
E-2′s getting in on a points visa is like a coach potato trying to win an Olympic medal. “If you want it bad enough” should not be the standard by which a country allows people in. The issue is that bar is set higher than necessary, such that even having a Master’s degree and being fluent in Korean wouldn’t necessarily qualify you for a points visa. Combine that with a clueless immigration staff that don’t know their own policies or rules, and have the unilateral power to deny an otherwise legitimate application, with little or no recourse available.
I agree on the War Museum in Yongsan. It’s interesting, but mostly propaganda. Then again, it’s a museum for a war that never officially ended and certainly hasn’t been resolved in any way.
If you don’t know what the World Economic forum is, should you really be weighing in before you bone up on it a bit?
I know several people who have gotten a points visa, and you don’t need a master’s degree to get it. If you do have a master’s and are fluent in Korean, unless you’re 120 years old, the chances of you not qualifying for the points visa are basically zero. A masters’s degree 30 points and complete language fluency (attained through the integration program) 30 points, gives you 60 out of the 82 you need. Income under 35 million is worth 5 points which leaves you needing just 17 points. Regardless of age, you qualify for the visa. I haven’t heard a single story of someone legitimately having enough points and not being given the visa. Fresh out of university grads have to do little more than simply go through the integration program and attain a high level of Korean proficiency and their age, income and every thing else qualifies them on points. I would exactly call “asking people to speak the language of the host country and giving them a free government funded program to learn that language” to be “if you want it bad enough”. If that’s how bad you have to stretch things to try and slam immigration..wow..
I know what the world economic forum is, my point was that it is listed as a source for the information but it is not stated how it is used or how they obtained that information. It is not clear if they simply commissioned a study, if they hired people to visit various countries and compile information. The only thing that is clear, is that the other source listed is an “Executive survey” and it’s not exactly clear how random executives would really be able to give that good of a picture about tourism in various countries as they’re more likely to travel for business than pure tourism and those trips end up being very different.
I was invited to be a Young Global Leader of the World Economic Forum in 1998 or 1999, before I knew what the World Economic Forum was. (And neither did my firm know.) They wanted at US$5500 conference fee, and of course I didn’t have US$5500. Since neither I nor my colleagues knew what the World Economic Forum was, I decided not to go. Smart. Now I find out there are orgies and I could have been a Bilderberger.
Korea used to be a filthy shithole, and not that long ago, either. That’s what I like about Korea — there is progress every single day.
True that.
Not to nitpick, but the language requirement just to get into the integration program is 90 for non-marriage immigrants, as opposed to 40 for marriage immigrants. I know of at least two professional translators who failed to get 90 on their first attempts at the placement exam. I’ve also found that many of the language classes are at times that make it difficult for those with full-time jobs to attend. One would imagine the differences in requirements and class times would indicate who the target demographic of the social integration class is.
I would like to know what the scientific unit of measurement for ‘friendliness’ is.
And yet, plenty of people have. Even if you can’t make one of the classes because of work, they offer night classes online. So, not to nitpick, but again the government provides lots of free options and Zen Kimchi’s much lauded statement is essentially a lie and the excuses made for it an over exaggeration.
Having scanned the survey itself, my guess is that someone screwed up and gave the South Korean scores to the North. “Korea, Rep.” shows up in quite favorable positions in all the relevant tables and North Korea isn’t even a subject of the survey, as far as I could see.
North Korea and a lot of countries are actually gray, which means they were not included in the survey.
Exactly. Korea isnt friendly to Koreans . Hypercompetitive meat grinder of a system.
Knowing of the narrow sample of business executives actually makes the survey more sensible and understandable. Low-scoring China and South Korea practice versions of mercantilism and discrimination, which, coupled with hostile and xenophobic media and legal systems, definitely repel Davos-type execs. Korea may be improving under various FTAs, but perceptions haven’t caught up. Japan is really not a lot more open than its neighbors, so I don’t see their better ranking justified. Maybe Japan is just more livable than Korea or China?
I can’t believe anyone takes these rankings seriously. You’ve got a handful of bureaucratic European wankers sitting in an office in Brussels manufacturing ridiculous algorithms to decide who the friendliest people in the world are. These folk probably haven’t even been to the countries they’re pillorying or praising.
Morrocco at 3??? Seriously?? I suppose groping single women is regarded as friendly by our WEF friends.
South Korea more unfriendly than Saudi Arabia? Fuck you. I lived in South Korea for 5 years, and have traveled around the world 4 times, and Koreans are among the friendliest people in the world, IMO. Meanwhile, torturing guest workers and brown foreigners is a national sport in Saudi.
Also, Bolivia the most unfriendly? Bullshit, I’ve been there too, they’re awesome.
That WEF report is toilet paper.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but wasn’t this study based on a poll asking Koreans what they think?
lol, according to that map, North Korea is far more welcoming than South Korea.
I think it’s based on a bunch of things, but this is the WEF:
http://www.weforum.org/history
I’m guessing that means the numbers dramatically improved in 2012:
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=101&oid=015&aid=0002552371
Piss on a shit-caked Big Mac and it’s gonna look a little more appetizing.
“Japan placed 74th, which suggests you can run a restrictive immigration policy and still be considered friendly as long as you smile and women in service professions speak with high-pitched voices.”
Like Korea?
it may be a made up term, but i knew immediately what he meant.
I got that right away, too, and it really fits. But honestly, what bugs me the most about Korea is the nationalistic/inferiority complex which requires that I, as permanent foreigner, am not allowed to say anything negative about Korea to anyone who is not my in-law or a really super, super close friend. Even though every Korean here may be bitching about how horrible said reality is, if I say it, then, “I don’t understand Korean culture,” or, I am “ungrateful,” while, for all the Koreans I’m talking to, it’s rally around the flag time… I really believe this is behind most of the venomous web statements made by long term foreigner residents here. As, face to face, you have to bottle up any real complaints you have on a daily basis; and you lack any real voice in (Korean) society. As such, the only safe place to let your complaints out is online.
As a native Korean, I would approve your message. And someone already made a nice video clip on racial microaggression:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDG4jYBhU_Q
I live now in the provinces after almost ten years in Seoul, and it seems to me that people here are a bit more friendly and relaxed in public. Some of the apparent hostility of Koreans may be partly a big-city Seoul phenomenon. Expectations are important as well to a foreigner’s feelings about Korea. Anyone expecting to assimilate will be disappointed. The non-Korean’s place in Korea will never be the same as a Korean’s, but that has some advantages along with the disadvantages. Marrying a native is another good way to live long term in Korea. So much of social life revolves around the family and extended family. If the family accepts you in as one of their own, Korea feels more like home and the opinions of strangers on the street becomes even less relevant.
I have some pet peeves about Korea. Sometimes I miss small talk with strangers that is more common back in the States. I miss the anonymity of being in public and not being noticed. And it gets me how sellers in the street market will sometimes offer me ‘foreigner prices’ even though I’ve lived here over ten years. But after living in Korea I have issues with some things in the States too – like an expensive health care system, the obesity epidemic, lack of awareness of the rest of the world, and an isolating type of feeling that is hard to describe – something like an absence of community, after adjusting to Confucian Korea’s obsession with personal relationships. Relations in the US sometimes seem more superficial.
It’s based on exactly 2 things. An executive survey and random hand waving by the wef. It’s unclear exactly how or what they contributed to the rankings.
You’d rather nitpick that, then take responsibility for essentially reprinting a very easily verifiable lie? and yes, things have improved. When was that article printed? Not that long after the visa was really into effect. It would take most people who didn’t already have stellar Korean skills a year or more to go through the integration program. You’re not going to start getting major uptake until 2-3 years after this program goes into effect. According to the latest immigration statistics 165 have gotten their F-2-7. Not only that 655 have their F2-99 that’s the visa that is given out with 5 years continuous living, also requires zero money investment and no marriage to a Korean, so actually that’s two visas. This has actually been pointed out to you several times and yet you continue to carry a blatant lie as a prominent quote in this entry. I find it troubling that you’re fine with knowingly running false information.
What a crappy video. 2 minutes in before it even attempts to show a “microagression” and the first one is clearly made up. The second one is a dating site.. because..hey..they’re not allowed to cater to people with a preference? Microaggressions, the thing those really looking for an excuse to feel offended about something can always fall back on..oh and really? one of those politically correct ads? The one where they try and jam in some combination of race/ethnicity/gender/etc you want to call that a microagression? Good lord.
I think, regardless of foreigner animadversion (both justified and not) toward South Korea, your comment pretty much sums up the worth of this “study.”
I agree. The video sounds a bit whiny. At least, it helped me to understand the word and how expats would feel in Korea.
I have a query…
To those of you who speak Korean fluently and have lived in Korea for more than a few months, what has been the response by Koreans to your language fluency?
this is basically it. not to mention korea is a homogenous society, what are you expecting? friends, family and all talk shit on non koreans all day.
Honestly, for myself, it has been very polarized. In some situations it is a very positive response, and has been very inclusive. In others, I am seen as the proverbial, “wolf in sheep’s clothing,” trying to utilize “cunning”(tm) by understanding what is going on around me. It seems to depend on the predispositions of those around me. As a caveat, I am merely conversational, and not fluent. (For example, I seem to average a understanding rate of about 40% of a typical drama on TV.) As such, I down play my Korean understanding with all but people who know me very well, and I am still open to making misinterpretations. At this point I feel confident that my Korean outstretches many, but by no means all, resident Kyopos, (as a mark of where my understanding is).
I think it’s those smiley face emoticons you see on the net. Example:
DDD, I rank four on the friendliness scale.
165, eh?
Political bullshit aside, i find Paris truly unlivable and fuck i’m from Milano, which is basically a mix of Marrakesh manners and Krakow warmth so my standards are pretty lax. But Paris ? Dirty, dangerous, overpriced, disorganised and basically boring as crap…truly nothing to do there, a glorified tourist trap like Florence only bigger and more pretentious
I think DCmusicfreak a few comments down nails it . As this is the WEF, this ranking probably alludes to some freedom of enterprise of sort.
Still it doesn’t make much sense ranking Korea so low, i mean Saudi Arabia basically pretty much bans tourism if not for Mecca pilgrims, how fuckin’ friendly is that in terms of business ???
BTW, the post has been updated to take into account your concerns, weiguk.
Not really. Then you’d have a shit-caked Big Mac with piss-soaked buns.
Sounds fair, although I think when you a) take into account Korea’s history over the last 140 years or so and b) some of the criticism can be racist, ignorant or just plain whiny, the reactions are not always beyond the realm of understanding. In my experience, the manner in which the criticism is offered largely determines how it is received. I’d also say I’ve read plenty of Korean articles approvingly quoting foreigners criticizing this and that aspect of Korean society. For that matter, I’ve been asked by plenty of journalists to offer criticisms of various aspects of Korea.
Also fair about what you say about the Internet being the only safe place to bitch, although I also think—judging from some of the comments I see here and elsewhere—that some expats use the Net to express their own inner demons and/or contempt for their host nation.
Frankly I’m quite surprised why you’re so down on the Western European countries. What you say, runs counter to everything that I’ve come to know about Europe. I find it hard to believe that it’s that bad. France leads all countries in tourism arrivals. Surely, there’s something there that attracts so many people to go and visit, and want to live there. Maybe your personal hard luck doing business and living in Europe is clouding your opinion to the negative sides.
Believe it or not, i’ve been fortunate enough to get by relatively well in my adult life, at times even luxuriously, briefly though: i had 3 affluent years in America and 2 affluent years here, the rest was a comfy mediocrity. I had 4 harsh years in the decade i spent here after I left the US and guess what ? My standards of living didn’t really change that much with money or not in my pocket.
I have a 2 years salesman contract that will expire this summer, last year i made 120k euros gross. Guess how much it stayed in my pocket ? A bit more than half. I own an apartment i bought cash in the 90′s with money i made in Chicago (so no mortgage) still I spend over 500 euros a month between utilities, security, garbage collection, real estate taxes etc. I pay all these taxes and what do i get out of that ? My son has to go to a very mediocre catholic school (another 500 a month) cos the public school system is mostly comprised of unskilled, underpaid teachers working in crumbling, unsafe, asbestos-noncompliant buildings and don’t even get me started on our healthcare system or the sheer shittiness of the bureaucratic machine.
I live in a renovated 1930′s building, which is less squalid than most, even semi-cutsy from a certain point of view, so i can’t complain too much, despite the complete lack of amenities: basically concepts like a condo swimming pool or a club house are unknown, turbo-capitalist, decadent extravaganzas for Arab sheiks here. But as i said most people are faring much worse: the majority of the real estate endowment is made of ugly , thick concrete 5-to-8 story condos that must have looked somehow modern when they were built (60′s-70′s), many lack parking facilities.
This shit generally retails for about 400 euro per sq. ft. so if i had to buy right now, i would have to sweat it just to be housed in conditions reminiscent of Zivkov-era Bulgaria.
I drive a fuckin’ 2010 Range Rover: it was a present i bought for my second ex-wife (during 2 of my richest years) when i crashed her previous car in an accident, when she left us i inherited the damn clunker, now the economy is so shitty i still didn’t manage to sell it after 3 long years, no matter how much i cut the price. In the meantime i was pulled over once by the tax police (yes we have such thing) cos they assumed i was some rich tax evader, thanks God my accountant told me to keep a copy of all my income statements and other documents in the glove compartment just in case…i don’t know really if i have to laugh or cry.
And don’t assume things are so bad just cos i live in the PIIGS rim: i’ve been to Northern Europe countless times and yes they’re marginally less corrupted and they have a few (ultra-protected) legacy industries, other than that it’s pretty much the same shit, only even more overpriced. Ever seen a post-WW 2 German city ? Did you see the cars they drive in , say, Denmark where the cost of a mere Jeep can go easily into six figure territory ? Did you know that 2/3 of Dutch babies are born at home with a midwife cos the healthcare system has been privatized (despite the huge taxes they pay there) ? Or that over 1/5 of German workers make less than 6.7 euros an hour (gross) ?
Then i go to Korea and poof all of a sudden i’m treated with a landscape of ultra-modern infrastructure, fast, reliable, cheap internet, well-fed and beautifully groomed locals who seem to drive nice, big cars while living in modern real estate and i feel the joke’s truly on me. No actually i feel the joke’s on the hundreds of millions of Europeans who have been bullshitted and brainwashed into believing they live in advanced, developed societies.
Cos that’s the most frustrating thing of life here: the sense of grandiosity completely unconnected with reality, sometimes eerily reminiscent of N. Korea. Combined with the fact that no matter how much you nominally make, the quality of life doesn’t change much, but hey our social model is perfect, what can really go wrong ? Paying high taxes is a privilege after all, don’t you know that Americans can’t afford medicines and Asians live in mud hats when they’re not busy working 19 hours long shifts ?
(this afternoon i was in cab downtown, i told the driver i worked for a Korean company and the guy sarcastically asked me if people live in bidonvilles there, i shut him off replying that this is the land of bidonvilles
white guys talking about social atmosphere in korea. cool story…
I was kinda thinking the same
The objective scientific unit for measuring “Apparent Friendliness” is “one smile,” but the number of smiles in a particular year must be divided by the total quantity of a country’s “Nationalism” for an adjusted measure of “Real Friendliness.”
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
http://news1.kr/articles/771326
Out of the 1.5 million or so foreigners living in Korea, Chinese nationals (including Korean-Chinese, “joseonjok”) make up 55%. Vietnamese make up 11.5%, Americans 4.9%, South Asians 4.5%, Filipinos 4.2%, etc.
The foreigners seem to be predominantly other Asians, particularly Chinese.
I wonder if Korea’s wariness toward China affects is immigration policy?
It is my gut feeling that Koreans are more open to Westerners immigrating to Korea.
I don’t think they mind it at all.
But about other races I’m not sure (to be brutally honest).
I find, that if for some reason I really feel the need to make a criticism of some aspect of life here, with people that are not in my inner circle, the only safe way to do it is: 1st, cover about 10 points that I really like about Korea, 2nd, reinforce that I really like living in Korea, 3rd, mention the criticism I want to make, perhaps down playing it a bit, and 4th reiterate that outside of the one small point I really like everything else about Korea. Following this system I can make a negative point and have it go over well. The song and dance of it, however, is so intricate, that I generally don’t bother saying anything at all.
As a connected aside, I have friends who tell me BBC is anti-Korean, mostly because BBC reports more Korean stories than CNN. As news, by definition, is mostly bad, they see it as Korean bashing. In my opinion, I see it as a sign of real respect for Korea that BBC cares enough to do some real reporting here, but that concept doesn’t seem to translate well into Han.
165 F-2-7 and 655 F-2-99 That’s 820 people without Korean blood, who didn’t marry Koreans, and didn’t invest any money to become long term expats here. It doesn’t take into account any F-2-99s that have had the visa long enough to transfer to an F-5, those particular stats aren’t available on the immigration website, but the F-2-99 has been around long enough that is likely some have. That is 165 according to the immigration’s statistics, no idea where you got 155, and why you’re linking to a story nearly a year and a half old. You can find the January statistics on the statistics portion of the immigration, website file #2 2013년 1월 외국인입국자 원본통계표로 엑셀파일임 90 males, 75 females. Yes, i changed my handle for this story because it was just so stupid that it needed it. Your point? Or is that really all you got to go to when trying to defend a hack “study” and a liar?
The point is the visa is out there for those who want to stay long term, and again, I haven’t heard a single case of someone having enough points and being rejected, and any westerner who comes over here to legally work as a teacher, simply has to sign-up for the free course, offered at their leisure, and upon completion obtain their visa as the points are basically a lock because of what you need to get here. Wow.. how arduous. After 3 years on the F-2-7 they can obtain an F-5 and even sponsor a foreign spouse for an F-2 which would allow them to work.. Damn that Korean immigration, making it so hard..
Re-reading my comment, I have to say it sounds a bit too negative. Knowing Korean has been 95% positive, although the negative aspects still stand, they usually revolve around business relations or people trying to “handle” you. And knowing Korean in cases like these are still positive, as you can re-assert your own control into the situation.
You missed the subtext. Vietnam was an economic “victory” for Korea b/c it brought about an infusion of badly needed foreign capital at a critical time in Korea’s history. (Park Chung-hee negotiated a deal with LBJ that brought in millions of dollars for the Korean economy in exchange for sending 350,000 ROK troops to Vietnam from 1964-73). That money, in addition to over a half-billion dollars Park was able to negotiate as reparations payment from the Japanese government were used to build one of the most critical North-South arteries in Korea today: the 경부 고속도로 (The Gyeongbu Expressway). The Vietnam War was also a huge boon to Korean conglomerates who cut their teeth as U.S. military contractors building roads, barrack facilities, dining halls, airstrips, motor pools, and conducting other support activities for the U.S. bases there, so, no, not all “victories” are military per se.
Like I said, weiguk, the post has been updated to take into account your concerns.
Perhaps this speaks to your ability to attract or to be attracted to the more socially well-adjusted people around you. That is a good habit to have, I think.
Put that into an oversimplified mathematical-looking formula, and we’ll get our PhDs for sure. We can call it the Vautour-Hodges Theorem. We’ll make tens!
Sounds good to me! If you’ll merely quantify “Nationalism,” we’ll be in the running for a Nobel prize!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Seems about right to me.
A little tourists trip for someone with no knowledge of the people, extrapolates for you into
You really ought to get out of Kangnam some time….
oh the outing..however will I survive? Woe is me… seriously. You realize that trying to repeatedly make that point just makes you look like a 3 year old girl stamping her foot?
N(personal)=(# of times you can sing the national anthem in a metric hour)*(# of immigrants you’ve had deported in the previous 12 months+1), reported in units of renditions x people/hour, commonly known as an ‘arizona’. True Fun Fact!: You have to have at least 560ari to become a Minute Man. The more you know, huh?
Now, we’re making progress. I concede your mathematical capacity exceeds my own. I see what you mean in your comment, but I have a question or two. Why the “12 months+1″ rather than just “12 months”? That’s my substantive query. What operation does the asterisk stand for? Multiplication? That’s my procedural query. Yours in Nobelity!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
If you’ve never deported anyone, you’ll get a score of 0, no matter how many times you can sing the national anthem in an hour, if you don’t have the plus 1. and * is multiplication. Finally, my degree comes in handy.
Excellent! Now, since you’re the far better mathematician, you may have the honor of putting the entire expression into a mathematical formula expressing “Real Friendliness”!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I think I’m going to need government funding to pursue this further. 100,000 should do nicely.
Good idea, but since this is joint research, we’ll need more like 1,000,000 . . . each. Travel expenses and photocopying, that sort of thing . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Dear non-Koreans,
I apologize on behalf of those certain Koreans that tick you off during your stay.
I hope we improve day and night to be more generous and welcoming nation.
Cheers.
I was talking about this yesterday to a friend who had lived in France for years before returning to Seoul. He thinks Seoulites are relatively unfriendly and high-strung when compared to Parisians, and that’s saying a lot.
And I also live in the provinces. People are much nicer out in the country, just like in any country. That’s part of the reason why there’s been an exodus of middle-aged professional Seoulites who don’t need to be in the office 24/7 to the countryside.
Japan tends to take these things to extremes, though. Those women in service professions may be cute in their uniforms, but their voices…Like an icepick to my ears. In Korea, they are merely annoying.
Completely off topic…Any relations to the activist Jackie Vautour?
Not directly, but we’re Acadian, so we’re all related somehow.
Parisians and the French also have a LOT more leisure and vacation time. If Koreans got 7.5 weeks paid vacation and didn’t have to be worker bees AND actually live in bee hives, think how much less “high-strung” they would be. Taking that into consideration, Koreans are pretty darn nice.
http://bistrochic.net/lifestyle/france-average-vacation-time/
I was referring to Seoulites. They are the ones who are high-strung. Even people from Busan, the second largest city in Korea, are relatively laid-back in comparison.
I went to university with a guy whose sister-in-law is his daughter…or something like that. Small world, eh?
A couple hundred is not plenty when you consider the number of long term residents on work visas.
Nice. Marrakesh manners and Krakow warmth! Well played sir.
I think it’s an accurate assessment of what the experience of executives/ high level managers / corporate officers have been. Which is why Korea ranks so low. It’s one thing to have a job here, but to start and / or help run a firm means dealing with the famously militant unions, having to get into bed with unscrupulous Korean partners to get anything done, and to be witness to debacles like that of LoneStar.
Shout out for Londoners. I find them friendly too.
Zenkimchi .. more Zen, less kimchi might help..
Oh No.I hope your arm’s OK.I always laugh at those old ajuma and ajussi’s who look like they are kitted to conquer the Everest when it’s only some sort of hill, and the higher I go, and especially when I am coming back down, on my bum because it’s steep/slippery, I have to eat my laugh.
Has Mr. Koehler applied for an F-2 and if so has he been granted one? I’m guessing no since he’s not Korean and his wife isn’t either.
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