So, this Sgt. Lopez creature and his wife appeared before Yongsan police yesterday afternoon, where according to KBS, they admitted to most of the charges against them.
The other cretin, a one Pvt. Dixon, has yet to be questioned as he’s still in the hospital with a gun shot wound to the shoulder.
If it’s shown that they did fire BB guns at civilians, they could face additional charges.
KBS also notes the rising GI crime rate. In recent years, GIs have been responsible for over 300 crimes a year, of which only 6% result in indictments. Most are given non-prosecution dispositions, and because of this, GI crimes sometimes ignite anti-American feelings. KBS notes that SOFA rules make it difficult for Korean cops to secure GIs accused of crimes when they fail to arrest them in the act. The broadcaster also notes that many point to the light punishments handed out to GIs who commit crimes and poor measures to prevent recurrences as the reasons for continuing GI crimes, and the answer is to revise the SOFA.
OK, I’m going to be honest here. There are things both sides could do to keep crime down—the stricter pre-2008 nighttime curfew seemed to reduce crime rates, and judging from some of the crime reports I see, I wonder if USFK is doing enough to instill in its men and women a sense of respect for the locals. Come on guys, 300 crimes a year? Sure, a lot of it is small stuff (hence the non-prosecution dispositions), but even little shit adds up.
You’ll never reduce the crime rate to zero in a population of 25,000 with lots of young men, however. The poor, stupid and criminally psychotic will always be with us.
I’m also not convinced that strengthening SOFA will solve anything. Judging from the stories I’ve read over the years, it seems the cops and prosecutors aren’t especially keen to exercise the authority they’ve already got under SOFA—see the 2005 Uijeongbu Beer Bottle Maiming Case to see what I mean. In recent years, Korean prosecutors appear to be more aggressive in going after the serious stuff, but perhaps it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the KNP to go Rudy Giuliani on USFK and begin breaking balls over the petty shit, a.k.a. broken windows. If your indictment rate is just 6%, whose fault is that?
UPDATE: Congrats, USFK—you got yourselves an editorial in the Chosun Ilbo.
To sum up the important part, yes, we know that since 2002, USFK has been working hard to contain incidents, quickly apologizing every time a GI does something criminal. GIs are still committing over 300 crimes a year, however—just last month, six GIs sexually harassed a young Korean women on the Uijeongbu tram, after which the base commander visited Uijeongbu to apologize and pledge that incidents like this would not happen again.
Over the last five years, GIs have committed about 2,200 crimes, but in only four of these did the Korean cops get to detain the suspects while they investigated. Because of the SOFA, it’s almost impossible for Korean cops to get GI suspects delivered unless they catch them in the act.
Ye Olde Chosun called on USFK to actively cooperate with the police investigation and use the opportunity to craft a plan to fundamentally reduce the amount of mischief committed by its men. If this doesn’t happen, Koreans will inevitably call for revisions to the SOFA no matter how much the American and Korean authorities explain the meaning and necessity of the agreement.
On the other side of the political spectrum, the Hani also ran an editorial on the incident. As expected, they note that because of the SOFA, the Korean side is unable to conduct proper investigations—even the 2001 revision merely allowed Korean cops to take possession of a suspect from the point of indictment instead after the trial… and for just 12 kinds of crimes at that. Anyway, the Hani’s tired of the constant apologies followed by slaps on the wrist.
My personal favorite editorial on the matter was courtesy the Dong-A Ilbo, which opened right away by noting that this incident was brought about because American GIs hold Korean cops in contempt—the GIs in question know full well if they’d pulled this stunt in the United States the cops would have shot to kill.
The Dong-A was also unhappy about USFK asking the Korean cops to delay their questioning of the driver because he’s on painkillers, which they regard as less-than-enthusiastic cooperation with the Korean cops. They probably offer the best advice out of all the papers—US military authorities need to beef up their training on off-base activities and instill a sense of respect for Korean law and the Korean authorities.
Now, I’m no USFK authority, but I’m doing what I can in a private capacity to bolster the American fighting man’s respect for Korean law:
Would the 미군 please stop 난동ing. Thank you for your cooperation.
— The Marmot’s Feed (@rjkoehler) March 4, 2013
UPDATE 2: I just dig the soundtrack:
Oh, and according to the Chosun, the two admitted to shooting BBs. And from the KT:
One U.S. soldier admitted Monday that he and two colleagues shot a Korean civilian with a BB gun, hit a policeman with a car and ran away on a rampage in Itaewon on Saturday night, police said.
[...]
A second suspect identified by police by her first name “Wendy” appeared at the station at 6:00 p.m. Police said that they suspect the 21-year-old corporal shot the BB gun at a Korean citizen surnamed Ahn based on testimony by Ahn and other police officers who approached them.
{ 74 comments… read them below or add one }
If he wants to shoot at civilians, simply send him to Afghanistan.
Some of those comments at ROK Drop are funny. Kinda like, “Yes, those three USFK personnel may have been wrong, but because they are foreigners the Koreans are getting especially tough on them!”
Okay, I’m I the only one who thinks that if you look different than 99% of the locals, then there will just be more attention put on to you in the first place and you have to be at your best behavior? That’s what my mom told me just before I went into the kindergarten classroom on my very first day of school.
You’re a minority. You are gonna stick out like a sore thumb. The majority society will trust you less unless you habitually score above the mean on the SAT (especially the math portion). Even then they may sometimes comment on how great your English is despite the fact that you have been born in the good ole U.S. of A. It’s not fair, but it’s life. If you are a black guy driving a crappy car in a nice neighborhood you are gonna get stopped and checked by the cops. If you are a white guy with a shaved head and with tribal tats all over your arms and you are in a nice neighborhood you are gonna get stopped. You know what the best thing to do in that case is? Just keep your nose clean and everything will be “okay.” Is that freaking so hard to do!?!?!?
So KBS is able to convict 100% of GIs for what they “have been responsible for”, but the Korean prosecutors can only get 6% indicted?
AJ,
Depends on how you interpret it. It could mean that rank and file Korean cops don’t like misbehaving GI’s and thus want them to spend just a night in jail, especially to work out the alcohol out of their system, but the higher ups don’t want a lot of GI’s in Korean jails for long thus don’t pursue indictment aggressively.
I don’t see comments like you cite at ROK Drop at all. I only read two comments (#8, #26) that can even remotely be interpreted as you suggest. #8 admonishes the “prude” and “racist” Koreans and ends with “we should just get out of this pit hole and let the Koreas reunify.” His real sentiment is obvious.
#26 is so over the top that the next commenter in #27 warns, “26. Some people will think you’re serious. ” Apparently, you’re “some people”.
The rest of the comments are more comments like “let the process play out” and “then fry them.”
The 300 crimes include all “crimes.” To include parking tickets and traffic tickets. Of course those have gone up since more USFK members have cars. Look at serious crime numbers for the real concern, of course KBS to make a sensational story they use this misleading number.
Also, whenever the Korea government decides to retain jurisdiction, those USFK members are turned over to the Koreans for prosectution and jail time if convicted. Many stories in the Korean press have you believe that USFK service members all flee the country, patently untrue (also known as a lie) to generate bad negative press against the USFK.
Over at Ask a Korean, he refers to USFK as an occupying force. Again, a lie. US forces are here at the invitation of the Korean Government, a sovereign nation. If they ask the US military to leave, they would leave. Witness the Philipeans. Yet another “netziten” with completely wrong facts spreading it as truth.
The quote from Ask: So, to reiterate: a foreign army is occupying the middle of the city, and some of them are dumbasses who were threatening civilians with guns, engaged in a late night car chase, tried to kill a police man and got away with only injuring him in the process. And Koreans cannot do anything about it unless USFK voluntarily turns the soldiers over, and good luck getting that to happen. [Ask A Korean]
http://rokdrop.com/2008/02/22/gi-myths-the-unfair-us-korea-sofa/
From The Korean’s blog and quoted in another thread here at MH,
Well, it looks like today is my lucky day. I’m going to play lotto and hit on women who are way out of my league. TK, you should avoid black cats and blogging for a while.
Do they? I haven’t read one like that, at least not recently. I do, however, read plenty of pieces complaining that the Koreans can detain a suspect only AFTER they are indicted, and only for 12 crimes at that.
It probably means a number of things. My guess is that the cops and/or prosecutors don’t really want to do all the paperwork and jump through all the bureaucratic hoops to indict and prosecute GIs for petty crimes. I’d like to believe USFK tries to be cooperative, but it wouldn’t surprise me either if, like any organization, it tries to protect its own.
Yeah, it could be that too. Administrative hassle. Maybe a night in jail scared them and they won’t do it again.
US soldiers in Korea are not in Korea to have a vacation, they are in Korea to fight and protect Korea. Americans have the full right to administer their own justice system and not have to fully expose their men to Korean justice system, if they don’t want to. They have that right because they’re paying for the stay in Korea both with money and lives. What I really mean to say is that beggars can’t be choosers. I hate this flogging of this dead horse every year in Korea. I would welcome the US withdraw from South Korea just so that I don’t have to read this same old complaints at MH every year without fail that causes aggravations between the Korean and American communities.
“..which opened right away by noting that this incident was brought about because American GIs hold Korean cops in contempt…”
Actually, quite a few people hold Korean cops in contempt. I often see them sleeping in their patrol cars when I go on my lunch break. Last week I saw a Korean in a white SUV simply speed through an alcohol checkpoint in Hanam-dong, and the cops just stood there doing nothing. A drunk man smashed into a parked car outside of my apartment building, and the police just stood there for over an hour and a half asking the guy to get out of his car, all the while his blood alcohol content was dropping, and he was sitting there in his smashed up car, laughing at the Klown cops.
Every once in a while, I see a Korean police officer enforcing traffic laws, and I get this warm feeling inside, like my tax dollars aren’t being entirely flushed down the ajeossi toilet.
I have two observations on this:
////////
1. the Korean cops know that USFK will hammer the offender much more efficiently than they can with harder sentences and less required evidence.
2. If you show your ass in public USFK will hammer you regardless of evidence see #1. I knew a 1LT who was relieved due to an eyewitness report that he was in a brawl downtown. Two months later and 10 witnesses to the contrary including a full colonel and he was SOL.
No US Service Members get out of Korea with unpaid parking or traffic violations anymore. At best they could delay it till the end of your tour. They can’t clear their base without first getting a stamp from a little Korean lady who works for the KNP. She only takes cash and they can’t get orders out without the PMO stamp.
Fun fact: Here’s what Yongsan looked like 110 years ago: http://photohs.co.kr/xe/?mid=freeboard&page=4&document_srl=6281
if these bastards shot at me Id shove those bb guns up their asses.
If they want the cops to be respected stop parading 20 year old boys and 50 year old ajossis as cops. Both are pathetic and contemptible.
I hope you never allow TK to write anything here again after that post about the US occupying Korea. He is hate baiting.
If Americans don’t want to fully expose their men to the Korean justice system, then they shouldn’t allow their men outside military bases. When soldiers leave the gate, they are in a foreign country. If this is too much for them to handle, they are welcome to stay on base.
As an expat working here, I don’t fear Korean crime; I only fear drunk soldiers who start trouble because they tend toward the aggressive side and aren’t concerned about local laws.
a bit over the top. You fear them?
There’s some confusion as to who wrote what since there seems to be two TK’s. Which TK are you talking about, and did the old TK that we know, really say that?
The one with the blog who contributes here regularly
He didn’t say “occupying Korea” dumbass. The U.S. military is “occupying” Yongsan Garrison both in legal and layman’s terms. The land is owned by the USFK.
The_Korean may have irritatingly lawyerly quirks, but he is far from a hate baiter. In fact, he seems to be a bleeding heart liberal from the blog posts I’ve read, except when it comes to 강아지.
hh
Fear probably isn’t the right word. When going out in Itaewon, Hongdae, or Songtan, I would be more concerned about run-ins with soldiers than with Koreans or other expats.
The soldiers are wrong, the broke the law.
What exactly was the complaint in Itaewon? Was anyone actually shot by a bee-bee? I think it’s ridiculous to fire three bullets at a car with knowledge that the occupants of the car most likely had an air rifle of some sort (that is the report) and no one had been injured back in Itaewon. What if the cop killed the driver? For what? It appears the officer felt threatened by the car and not a gun. Three live bullets? That’s worse than playing around with a bee-bee gun.
If the “shooters” were really crazy and they had a real gun the cop would probably be dead. Nothing the cop did makes sense. Why weren’t there police cars behind the taxi when they arrived at the dead end?
That soundtrack’s the best rip-off of Tubular Bells since Tubular Bells 2.
I guess no one got the update, USFK brought the KNP on Yongsan to interview the third suspect at his hospital bed. So tell me again how USFK doesn’t cooperate with the Korean justice system.
Sorry, but shouldn’t “Because of the SOFA, it’s almost impossible for Korean cops to get GI suspects delivered unless they catch them in the act.” also include “prior to trial”? I mean, USFK is not refusing to hand over ppl for trial, are they? I understand it’s just for holding prior to trial/conviction.
most of the comments are about as shameful as these idiots acted. As I said, that blog is the toilet.
No way the 300 crimes include parking tickets. Hell . . . I get a couple of parking tickets every year. Everyone who drives gets at least a few while they’re in Korea.
Please tell me you don’t really think USFK owns land in Korea. Although I wish it did – just think how much they could sell Yongsan for — it would pay for all the construction at Camp Humphreys as well as the move itself. And there’d probably still be several millions of dollars left over.
You are thinking like you’re in the States. What are the likelihood of a gun shoot out in the middle of Seoul? The cops go by their own experiences, and they probably never saw anything like this before.
I would like to see an increase in the overall quality of the crimes committed by American service members stationed in Korea. You know, daylight bank robberies, for example.
A bank robbery requires planning and teamwork and guts, all things I would hope the military branches would be encouraging and nurturing in their ranks. I would sleep better at night knowing that the men and women charged with protecting Korea have the skill and initiative to take down a bank. Or maybe hack the stock exchange computers. Something awesome.
But shooting a BB gun out a car window and then getting chased down by a single cop in a taxi?
Not encouraging at all.
The driver of the car refused to get out of the car, instead pressed the accelerator aiming for the policeman. In the interview, the injured policeman thought he was going to die. The policeman fired the gun to stop the driver from pinning him and turning him into a pancake. The bb gun wasn’t even an issue at that time.
Please enlighten me then. Do they have a long term lease? Who authorizes the building of hotels, restaurants, etc on the base? Are Korean citizens allowed to enter to use said private hotels, restaurants without USFK permission? Does the USFK pay rent and how long is the lease for? I’m genuinely curious.
**It would do wonders for the legacy of any president if the majority of the land were made into a park such as Central Park in Manhattan, without the intervention of the greedy chaebol.
Would you get out of your car(if white color) when a bunch of pure blooded Koreans were surrounding your car on one side while the wimpy police(no access to auto) were on the other? Those Korean police sure are good at controlling the scene aren’t they? Joke! The Korean pure blooded citizens controlled the scene in Itaewon on that Sat. night and would’ve taken/beaten etc…the soldiers as they’ve done before if the soldiers were dumb enough to get out of their car. The female could’ve faced similar treatment as female news reporters do in Egypt had she gotten out.
Where is a link to the interview with the injured police officer? I read the taxi driver’s account in which he (the taxi driver himself) said he thought the police officer was going to get killed – but I haven’t seen a published interview with the injured officer. And I would think the police officer (and his chain of command) would be very reluctant to submit to a public interview at this stage.
You are such a troll that your IP address indicates you are under a bridge.
I like ROK Drop. The blog is good. It’s the commenters that sometimes get out of hand.
Your constant attempts to racially bait isn’t going to work. You need help.
He says he was pinned against the wall, and he fired his gun after the initial first attempt to ram him, injured him. The second attempt by the car to pin him, made him fire the gun.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-us-soldiers-questioned-over-alleged-hit-and-run-in-seoul/article9256621/
The statement that he thought he was really going to die, appeared in another Korean article.
Here is the bottom line:
As trained professionals, no USFK should be engaged in this type of assholery. Full stop. And if they do engage in assholery, they deserve to be called out as assholes. That was exactly the point of my post. A lot of people wondered what prompted PSY to write such violent lyrics against American soldiers. Well, this type of incidents is the reason. Did I say anything about whether USFK should be in Korea? No. (And in previous posts, I was very publicly in favor of continued presence of the USFK in some manner.)
Instead, what happens with MH commentariat? In their never-ending quest to blame Korea for everything, they find an angle: in this case, how Korea is letting USFK to stay and therefore deserves to bear the brunt of USFK assholery. And somehow, this perverse logic has currency in this space, because it blames Korea and distracts from the main issue: that these soldiers were being assholes.
I’m not going to get into this bullshit about USFK being in Korea at Korea’s invitation, as if USFK is in Korea purely out of angel-like goodness of their hearts. That’s just further distraction from the main issue: these soldiers were assholes, and Koreans deserve to be pissed at them. End of story.
Who doesn’t seriously think these soldiers were asshats and deserve everything, in proportion, that will be coming to them?
As for your reference to Psy, I’m going to just say it: I don’t think that their mothers, sisters, fathers, and brothers should be brutally murdered. Hell, I don’t think these soldiers should be executed. Yeah, I said it. If the facts are as they appear to be, I think restitution, jail time, fines. The UCMJ will be tougher on them than Korean law after the Korean legal system is done with them anyway.
For your not wanting to discuss, as a (not necessarily the) Korean the USFK presence at the pleasure of the Korean government and, yes, the Korean people, the fact of the matter is that the USFK is in Korea by the continued consent of the Korean government and, yes, the Korean people. If the Korean people truly wanted USFK out, I could be president if I (citizenship aside) took PGH’s platform but had USFK out of Korea. As I’ve told my wife repeatedly, being president of the country is the best job there is. You get to live in a phat house, have a phat limo, and date phat chicks. Plus it looks great on your resume.
If that’s the case, why do people here, and you in particular, spend 100 times more words and energy chastising Koreans, when supposedly everyone here knows that the soldiers were asshats? Why is it that you are only saying the above now, after I flogged you for not even dropping a perfunctory line? Holy shit, even at this stage, you still cannot bring yourself to just say it straight; you had to put your criticism in a roundabout, rhetorical question.
And why, just why are you so fucking focused on the irrelevant issue of who is responsible for the USFK presence in Korea–especially in response to my writing IN WHICH I DID NOT EVEN DISCUSS THE USFK PRESENCE? Why does that matter? Does that give these soldiers a license for their behavior? Clearly it does not, so why do you insist on talking about it? Could it possibly be that you have trouble looking straight into the issue and talk about just how big of an asshole these assholes were? Could it possibly be that it is so much easier for you to give a little hand-wave to the assholery, and focus on the part about Koreans are ignorant en masse?
Let’s be candid, the US military is in Korea to protect AMERICAN interests, not Korean interests. It is a forward projection of American power to protect American interests that US troops are stationed outside the US. When US troops act like asshats in Korea, they set back American interests and harm their own mission here. Their commander should kick their backsides HARD for that or let the Koreans do it for him if he is too much of a pussy. It is the price of empire.
But if he wanted to be any more inflammatory, he probably couldn’t. ‘A foreign army is occupying the middle of the city’ is clearly a call to arms.
If you are leasing you do not own. If I lease a house I can certainly tell you to fuck off should you wish to enter it.
Leasing or owning, the U.S. Military is living and working and has control over Yongsan Garrison. I occupy my rental apartment. I am an occupant. “Occupy” is a common everyday word and is not according to Bob “clearly a call to arms” nor “inflammatory”. That you and Bob want to interpret it that way says more about you than The_Korean. Neither of you are even in the USFK as far as I know.
You like to have a hissy fit about everything, but who knows why Bob is all worked up when I don’t believe he is even American.
Context is everything. When using ‘occupy’ in the context of you and me, it will have a very different connotation than in the context of an army on foreign soil. “Bob is occupying his house” is not the same as “the German army is occupying Paris” even though the same verb – to occupy – is used. Words and sentences gain meaning through context.
He trafficks in left-nationalist mythology and dogma (which has a surprisingly large market in a free, educated country like South Korea), not so much in hate-baiting
The left nationalist mythology is aimed at the US, so it is hate-baiting..or maybe hate mongering?
Commenter banned.
He’s not hate-baiting. And he didn’t suggest the US is occupying Korea.
He wrote it. “A foreign Army is occupying Seoul”
I was just asking a question. Does anyone know the answer to my question about jurisdiction for civilian crime at Yongsan Garrison? Is it considered U.S. sovereignty like embassies?
I found information that U.S. bases in Japan are leased from private owners but could not find any lease information for U.S. bases in South Korea.
*I found it interesting that the U.S. has an open-ended lease for Quantanomo Bay although it has no diplomatic relations with Cuba.
Article on U.S. military bases worldwide: http://monthlyreview.org/2002/03/01/u-s-military-bases-and-empire
Why do you hate property rights?
Grumpy- I don’t hate property rights. Stop flirting with me or I’ll tell your wife. ^.^
You were questioning property rights and undermining them. For what nefarious ends, I do not know, though my suspicions I do have.
Well, obviously these guys haven’t been in Korea for very long. They didn’t turn themselves in while sporting a wheelchair…
I’m genuinely confused about the numbers. 6% of 344 is 21 cases, but there were many more convictions of USFK personnel in 2011 than that (20 in October alone). What am I missing? Can you get a conviction without indictment?
one of the reasons people obey the cops here is because the cops can kill you for very little. the k cops should have shot the thugs dead. that’ll teach them soldiers from the hood,
Nobody is suggesting that the number includes *getting* a parking ticket, but rather extended nonpayment of multiple tickets, which turns into a more serious offense.
1. Since I’m married I could not possibly be flirting with you.
2. Hypothetical (2 assumptions): a) I’m single b) This is face to face – I would not need to flirt with you since you would be doing all the heavy lifting. I don’t know how attractive you are, but as they say, the bigger they are the easier they fall. I simply need to be.
Caveat: Even if I were single and attracted to you,it could never work. I cannot be with a girl who is so politically different from me. For me, belief in property rights is paramount to any relationship, or fling.
They include all traffic accidents too. You bump someone and if a police officer shows up then it gets thrown on the top even if your insurance company settled it.
Pretty much anytime a police officer has to show up it becomes a “crime” by statistics even though most are a just a fine. Parking tickets would not be a “crime” unless you failed to pay them for some reason and had to go to the police office / court house to resolve the issues. So “300 per year!!!!101″ is very very bad to use. Instead go by serious offenses (rape / murder / theft / ect..) which limits it to stuff that actually goes through a trial. Divide by the number of service members and you get an average much less then the average Korean. USFK soldiers are less likely to commit crimes then a Korean citizen. The difference is that Korean citizens don’t have well-funded political organizations after them.
why then did the cop fire at the car?
So the car was stopped in the dead end and the police officer approached the car? Why did the cop think he was going to die? Why didn’t he call for more police while he was in the taxi chasing the car? If the car was in a dead end couldn’t he have blocked the road with the taxi and called for more police? Your version of the cop’s story doesn’t make sense.
The story just keeps changing. Now they’re saying the BBgunners rammed a police car near the end of the chase.
Cops can’t “kill you for very little.” You’ve seen too many B-movies.
Stop with the lawyerly bullshit. Here it is in a statement:
These soldiers were asshats and deserve everything, in proportion, that will be coming to them.
I asked it originally as a question because you droned on about how posters were not sufficiently chastising these soldiers or somehow supporting them. You seem to want to have a message board that only reiterates the obvious.
As for all the attacks of form, you need to just stop. If you want to discuss ideas, I’ll consider it again. But my experience with you has been that you misunderstand, purposefully or otherwise, and want to distort arguments and statements to “win” rather than discuss.
If you have ideas that you want to discuss, flesh out, and test, then we’ll try again.
Recent shootings by American cops(feb-march 2013):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/04/southfield-police-shooting-two-men-break-in-march-4_n_2805680.html?utm_hp_ref=detroit
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_22723238/hayward-police-man-killed-sunday-police-shooting-was (137 shots were fired at pursued car, killing two. No shell casings or gun recovered from victims)
http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/12/ohio-attorney-general-releases-animation
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/02/21/police-shoot-man-carrying-machete-in-lehigh-county/
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020439470_policeshootingxml.html
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16900348-women-shot-during-lapd-ex-cop-manhunt-had-no-warning-lawyer-says?lite
Back so soon? You should have stayed away, because you are just going to get embarrassed each time you engage.
You are the one who attempted to “win” from the beginning. This entire exchange began because you began discussing what I wrote on my blog, and how it was wrong. What grand “idea” is there to be discussed about figuring out what I meant by what I wrote? When you guess what I intended by what I wrote, then claim that your guesswork of my intentions is wrong, what other purpose is that other than to “win”?
And the best part is–you can’t even show where I was wrong! Here’s a quote for you, kiddo: “When you come after the king, you best not miss.” Since you want me to flesh out, I will flesh out how each point of this discussion unfolded:
1.
AJ: “USFK is not an ‘occupying army’, because its presence is not based on conquest.”
TK: “I never said USFK is an ‘occupying army.’” Read what I wrote again.
AJ: Well, the use of the word “occupy” was vague.
TK: It was not vague considering my long and public history of supporting USFK presence in Korea.
AJ: [silence]
2.
AJ: “There is no doubt that the USFK would turn these soldiers over.”
TK: “It is entirely up to USFK whether or not it would over the soldiers, and it is always a matter of chance whether or not USFK will turn them over.”
AJ: [silence]
3.
TK: Why are we discussing this in MH and distract the focus away from the true outrage of the crime?
AJ: Because you made it the issue in MH.
TK: I did not make it the issue here at all. All I did was to write in my own blog; I did not write a single word on this blog on this topic before you began leveling accusations at me. So how did I make this the issue in MH?
AJ: [silence]
That’s pretty much it–those three points are all we got. And in each case, you have no answer. And because you have no answer, you alternately resorted to: (1) falsely attributing motive to me, apologizing for that falsehood and promise not to touch upon the motive part, and going right back to questioning my motive; (2) calling names; (3) threatening, without basis, that you are holding back because somehow your words will damage my real-world reputation; (4) claiming, ironically, that I was trying to “win” the argument; (5) running away to different threads, and finally running away altogether–until you came back here.
So you tell me Joe–what do you hope to prove here? What “ideas” did you have in mind when you decided to challenge me on my writing? In fact, I will be pretty generous and let you attempt to win. Try and address any of the three points above. Go.
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