When you get a chance, read the WSJ Korea Real Time’s write-up on Tiffany Needham and Erik Moynihan, who—among other things—run Magpie:
The microbrewery is called Magpie and operates from a location down a hill from Itaewon that the couple says was designed to be a lab and taste center rather than a bar. Ms. Needham said she recently admitted to a customer that the place – which looks like an overgrown kitchen with a few stools tossed in – had indeed become a bar. But they’re now planning to open a proper bar, one that stays open past 11, in the basement of a nearby building next month. Name: The Magpie Basement.
The couple, along with their partners in Magpie, have been able to take advantage of recent changes in South Korean laws that have made it possible for microbrews to be distributed beyond their premises. As a result, Magpie’s beers, along with those of the nearby Craftworks Taphouse, have become available in other hip bars around Itaewon and in restaurants like Vatos Urban Tacos.
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I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that Needham is almost certainly a Gyopo or overseas adoption who got started on an F4, I seem to recall the people who started the first “foreign owned hagwon chain” also involved a Gyopo. I’m curious how Moynihan got his visa. Not many teachers would have the requisite $100,000 out of country available to bring in country to qualify for a D8, and it’s unlikely that they had 500,000 in country to invest to qualify him for an F2.
She says that it was her mother’s country and that she visited as a child, so she’s an F-something. I think she’s a 50/50 Korean/American. Maybe her mom was an immigrant to the US who married a local. The video doesn’t suggest Moynihan and Needham are married, however, so his visa doesn’t seem to be dependent on hers. I bet he did get the D8. Rich parents or silent partners, perhaps.
LG is giving them business as well, so that is good for them.
Their ale is the best around now.
Yeah, there are ways around the $100,000 requirement. One is to get the money from sources–there are businesses who specialize in this–to temporarily put the money in your account until you get the visa or (more commonly) business license you need.
You make it sound as if 100 000$ is a fortune.
It is for an English teacher.
Yes she’s 50/50. I think her dad’s Italian and mom’s of the kimchi persuasion. She’s very nice and isn’t blinded by the kimchi in her blood. Not so sure about him, a bit ‘emo’ but otherwise cool.
That W100,000,000 investment requirement jumps to W300,000,000 from June 12, so if you’re considering establishing a small foreign-invested business, time is of the essence.
Getting started with a smaller investment amount doesn’t mean you can’t incorporate, but it means the company can’t be designated a “foreign-invested company” under the Foreign Investment Promotion Act, and — although this is not expressly stated — the company will probably not be able to sponsor a D-8 visa for the investor. That’s been our experience with the Immigration Bureau and our business clients who don’t want to have a lot of capital tied up here.
Geez! People were complaining about the barriers before it went to $100,000. Thanks for the tip.
You’ll still be able to form a company with less capital, but for most small investors one of the objectives of forming a company is to use that company to sponsor a work visa. Unless the company is designated a “foreign-invested company”, the Immigration Bureau seems likely to balk at allowing the company to sponsor a visa.
It’s a lot of money to have tied up in investment capital. For most of our corporate clients, who come from the United States and UK where a company can be established with next to no capital, the Korean minimum-capital requirement is an irritant. I can’t see how this will promote foreign investment.
The real objective of raising the minimum-capital requirement is to make life harder for Pakistani and African small investors (and “investors”) who establish a lot of small companies and thereby acquire a right to reside in Korea virtually indefinitely. Other developed economies like the United States also require a relatively large investment for investor visas such as the US EB-5 visa.
Brendon: Any idea how that will work for those who have already started a company and need to keep the D-8 intact?
I guess that means that Simon and Martina will need to run another Kickstarter/Indiegogo campaign to remain in business next year. The thing is…they will probably end up raising it.
Why would they need to do that? Their visa is/was sponsored by tourism Korea. That campaign (just looked it up) was in 2012 and they were doing full time videos long before that, no way they were living and working here without a visa being that visible. anyway the 300,000 probably only applies to new applicants and not renewals and things.
The $100,000 has to come from out of country. That’s the problem. If a teacher gets a decent job, saves their pennies and invests, after a few years they could probably approach that. The problem is, that’s all in country money. For the D8 the government requires the money to come from outside the country. I guess if you laundered it, you might get around it. His visa couldn’t be dependent on her anyway. As an F-4 she can’t sponsor him for anything. Unless with the new dual citizenship laws she is a dual citizen, then she could sponsor him for an F6.
Did the WSJ writer suggest he would be “controversial” if he were to partake in an Arirang episode of Semipermanent? Did this “Semipermanent” show include a “trouble in country” episode about a mixed race “couple” which includes an ethnic Korean “Ms Needham” living with a white man?
100 million is nothing really. For a kid straight out of uni it is a considerable sum, but for most people it isn’t that much. My wife and I run a very small business and only started quite recently (I’m F5). I’m all for a higher level of capital investment for business visas for foreigners in Korea. Developed countries ( I now count Korea amongst them) should set the bar high. Why attract the riff raff? It’s a mistake that many countries have made.
What Korea really needs to do is to attract ‘talent’. It seems that the Chaebol have too much power here. The big conglomerates in Korea buy all the new talent in the workforce, and government polices (might be connected?) hurt small business. Government should focus on SME business rather than letting the chaebol off of crime.
I think that Korea has outgrown the ‘Chaebol system’, I also believe that conglomerates are finished as a business model. The future is CO-OP, a fusion of the best of capitalism and the best of sociailism.
IMHO, that’s the future, if we’re going to survive as a species.
That’s not correct that the money has to come from out of the country, by the way.
whatever she is, she is a FINE looking woman.
Well, la di da.
http://www.expatkorea.com/bbs/showthread.php?21384-D8-Visa-Info “They stipulate the funds MUST come from outside Korea specifically from an account registered in the same name as the applicant.” feel free to call immigration yourself
Out of curiosity, what’s your point?
If ExpatKorea says so, I guess it must be true. Nevermind my 16 years of actual experience as a lawyer with an employment practice.
It’s a lot of money. The median American household’s net worth is US$77,000. The Census Bureau reports the average American household has 3.14 people. Since each American’s average individual share of the national debt is about US$60,000, we can see that our political class has made the average American destitute.
At first glance, that US$77,000 median net worth figure is surprising. What it says to me is that there is a broad lower class whose members are probably worth next to nothing.
The reason the figure, at first glance, is surprising is that you’re comparing median apples to average oranges.
(We’d really be up shit’s creek if the gov’t used a head tax to raise its revenue.)
Hint: You can send it to your old man from here and he can send it back to you. “Foreign investment” indeed.
No, it is permissible for monies earned and saved in the Republic of Korea to be recognized as “foreign investment capital”, if the money is within the limit of what could lawfully have been remitted abroad by the investor during the period which the investor resided in Korea and earned the money.
No need for Bank of Dad to be involved.
Yep, there is a broad lower class whose members have a financial net worth next to nothing. One dare not be sloppy with such descriptions of worthlessness!
But the average family owes about US$200,000. How the hell is that ever to be repaid?
From what I understand, they were teaching English at public/private schools at first, and then quit to run the site full time (presumably with some other projects to tide them over) with the Youtube profits being sent to a Canadian account. I’m not sure for how long they were living under tourist visas, but Canadians gets 6 months at a time, so it might have only been for a couple of sojourn periods. I also believe that they were not actually receiving funds from the KTO, although that might have changed now that they are a registered entity.
This is all gleaned from having watched previous videos of theirs over the course of the last year or so (there was an episode that directly addressed how they managed to live in Korea doing Kpop videos). Regarding the renewals, I can’t quite find a source right now but I am under the impression that visas obtained under the previous rules are subject to the new restrictions upon renewal (presumably yearly?). Mr. Carr, can you confirm/deny that?
Whether or not it’s a lot of money is really dependent upon the type and scale of the business being set up. It’s a lot of money for a small company involved in media relations, but a small amount for many manufacturers. Of course,in relative terms, Korea already excels in manufacturing, but lags in services provision. So, this policy could be viewed as sending two messages: 1) “Don’t come here unless you have a lot of money”; and 2) “Don’t come here and compete locally in areas in which we are weak (unless you have a lot of money and want to run things on a larger scale)”.
Chiming in a bit late, I think the visa environment here is pretty rubbish and the KRW 100 m investment requirement is a lot of money and hassle in the modern ‘talent’ based global system.
Talking about talent… individual talent usually comes with expertise not capital. For instance, my wife (who is the Supervising Producer of the series in the post above) normally works as a freelancer. That doesn’t work on the present visa system as she has no sponsoring employer and why would she invest capital domestically? Not many companies actually need to or want to tie up or waste capital. The result of this is that the work had to be done via Hong Kong (as we were previously based there) which is kind of crazy considering that this means that the expertise remains external and locals do not get trained up.
This is not uncommon in the media environment and most of the “good” media stuff made here is done by on a fly in/ fly out basis.
Similarly, a lot of highly qualified expats don’t move here because the visa system, unlike Hong Kong or Singapore, does not provide an automatic work visa for your spouse if you meet certain highly qualified migrant statuses. Oh and the misery of the education system for children.
The whole point is the present visa system reinforces the chaebol system rather than allowing challenges to it. Which, knowing Korea a bit better now, isn’t much of a surprise.
Do you know whom the U.S. government owes the debt to? Actually, the question is rhetorical, and I know the answer.
The U.S. government owes the bulk of its debt to itself. Of the $16T debt, about $5T is owed to the Social Security Trust Fund and ultimately headed to American households. Fed open market operations often require the Fed to purchase U.S. government bonds, which means the Fed as holders of those bonds gets the principal and interest, which ends up back in the U.S. treasury. The bulk of the remainder is owned by American investors and owed to American households. I think China, the U.S.’s largest foreign creditor, holds about 8% of U.S government debt.
The U.S. stands no shot of default in the sense of bankruptcy. The U.S.’s debt is denominated in U.S. dollars, and all the U.S. need do (in the extreme case) is crank up the printing presses. The problem Eurozone countries,, e.g. Greece, have, is that they can’t.
As far as hyperinflation, U.S. debt isn’t only in T-Bills, due in three months. The U.S. has debt of varying maturity, which investors use to manage risk and cash flow.
In short, I’m concerned, I’m not alarmist.
Why would Korea want an influx of foreign producers when there are plenty of talented local PDs? Have you seen shows like Running Man and 1 Night 2 Days? They have crews of 80 to 150 traveling locally and overseas, filming in the middle of crowded Hong Kong streets to remote mountain tops. Running Man uses top stars, so wherever they film also attracts hundreds of spectators. I don’t know what outside “expertise” can possibly have to offer except the ability to speak English.
http://kshowonline.com/kshow/479_%5Bengsub%5D-running-man-ep.72-%28hongkong%29
Way to conflate government with people and investors.
And way to be a printing press loving libertarian.
TV? How juvenile
I would disagree with you on your specific points re TV (especially that I am not sure that ‘top stars’ = production quality) but kind of wish I hadn’t given an example to debate on as my important point was the general one… that the current visa system doesn’t properly allow the immigration of talent.
Anyone with an ounce of Korean genetics and lots of English teachers yes. Highly qualified international quality people; no or not easily in comparison Korea’s competitors like Hong Kong and Singapore.
You’re just trying to live up to the nickname I gave you aren’t you? *.^
I didn’t say “top stars” equal quality. I said they attract large crowds which can make filming in public places logistically difficult.
But hey- if your wife can improve on the crap that’s on Arirang, more power to her. (:
Because nothing changes in 16 years.. They’ve revamped the rules on this visa a few times recently, perhaps you’re just out of touch on top of being conceited. Never a good combination.
As far as I can tell, I’ve often seen them show up in a group of bloggers who obviously have some ties to government entities, who may or may not be getting remuneration for the way they promote Korea. I’ve seen people directly ask them how they did what they did, and they were coy and dodged the question, repeatedly. If they did a video on it, while acting like that when having it put to them, it sounds like the video was a bit of PR. If they are on the take from the government, you can be sure they wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge. It would possibly damage the brand, but it might increase competition if people had genuine confirmation such a program exists.
I just dont like TV. Neither should anyone over the age of 15
Way to display your fundamental misunderstanding of basic economics. In no way did I conflate households (“people and investors”) with government. Just google “circular flow diagram”. Maybe you’ll understand more if someone draws a picture for you.
And no way did I make a normative judgment about the U.S. using the printing press. The statement was positive, and I only wrote what is. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. never need default on any dollar denominated debt. …not so long at least as it has printing presses. (Kindly note that I offered no judgment as to “good” or “bad”, just “is”)
Hmm, that could be true I suppose. I have similar theories about the increasing number of suddenly Korea-friendly media voices in North American (CNN/WSJ/NYT) and European (TV5, BBC, Monocle) media circles. I’d like to believe that interest in Korea and Korean culture is naturally sprouting forth on the basis of economic/cultural contributions to global society, but certain features seem a bit too ‘focused’ to be entirely natural (CNNGo’s constant top-10 places to visit in Korea features, or Tyler Brule’s Korea fashion/music features that seem to take place exclusively in Cheongdam-dong and nowhere else, to name a few).
W100,000,000 is indeed a considerable sum of money. When BC talks about a median household net worth of US$77,000, he means net total assets and not necessarily a pile of cash. Not many people have highly liquid assets, which can quickly be turned into cash, of W100,000,000.
don’t confuse brendan with facts.
Yes because printing relentlessly a currency that manage to stay weak even against the British pound, the Euro and the Turkish lira (Turkey is a country with an enormous current account deficit) is really a viable economic policy ?
I’ll tell you a little story: there was once a silly Southern European country who at some point in time, an era we will call the roaring 80′s, convinced herself she got rich. In fact at that specific point per capita GDP was higher than UK and France, while ranking for a short time as the 4th largest economy in the world.
This silly nation actually was doing nothing but cranking up an enormous amount of national debt, the policy makers though were not concerned as most of the debt was denominated in the local currency (some goofball funny money nobody ever took seriously) and owned mostly by local investors. Local investors were deemed filthy rich cos previous generations saved abudantly…and invested their hard-earned monies in low yielding assets like residential real estate (their own home) and loan sharking their own government.
The conutry wasn’t being very productive: external trade figures looked kinda like the tab for war reparations but that was not a cause for alarm either: hot money was flowing abundantly allowing the silly Southern European crackpot to live way beyond her means, in an orgy of import-fueled silly consumerism, corruption-riddled, cathedral-in-the.desert type of infrastructure projects etc. etc.
All this while the effective competitiveness of the country declined, a phenomenon testified by the abysmal scores in math and science of the local students population.
We all know what happened later.
Now i’ll concede the fact the US is not some silly Southern European nation: the military assets, the local energy resources and a few spots of academic excellence and innovation do count for something.
Still your resources are not infinite, at this rate of squandering and misallocation of capital*, you will find yourselves in some trouble spot soon.
* Maybe the country should concentrate more on economically viable projects, instead of churning out more social media clones, inflating a bloated car loans bubble and allowing vital segments of the economy (i.e. telecoms and heath insurance) to be dominated and stifled by de facto oligopolies
PS
Currently the US economy manage to grow at little more than 2% annually (that’s the equivalent of 1.3-1.4% in Europe when you factor in the different demography) while running tril.+ budget deficits every year. Question: what would happen to the economy if the deficits had to somehow be reined in ?
PPS
I believe most “advanced” nations GDP’s are little more than works of fiction
Technically you’re not totally correct: major rating agencies do consider inflating debt away excessively a form of default. Clearly it is unlikely this will ever happen for America
That’s right. The US$77,000 net worth undoubtedly includes home equity and retirement accounts, neither of which is liquid.
You made many normative statements in the past you dingbat fraud “libertarian.” The government racking up a huge debt is not harmless, and you can shove your diagrams up your ass because the constant defense of government’s irresponsibility on your part is becoming sickening. When the fed cranks up the presses to pay for those open market operations, people lose out, and obviously no matter what you claim, this cannot go on forever.
You are correct, Salman, I have made many normative statements in the past: “You should listen to your doctor”, “you should take your meds….” Maybe that good advice seems like dingbat fraud libertarianism to you now, but soon your prescriptions will take hold, you’ll be back in balance, and you’ll realize just how much we care.
In your present state, I forgive you for so misrepresenting my position. >>Shhhh<<…. no need to say anything more.
Do you honestly believe the last time I encountered these issues was 16 years ago, rather than this week?
SalarymaninSeoul wrote: “I just dont like TV. Neither should anyone over the age of 15.”
Is that a normative statement? Not that I disagree. Just that I think no human being can avoid normative statements . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Not that I have a comment to post urgently but can we have a new open thread, please?
Child, you made normative statement in favor of the printing presses,
I think you are referencing my answer to Joe….he has in the past come to the defense of massive printing of currency by the Fed, and that is what I was referring to in that post.
ummmmm…. no I haven’t.
I am 99% sure that was you since I remember being flabbergasted that a libertarian could come to the defense of what amounts to massive redistribution, i.e. theft and violence. But I won’t bother looking for it, so have it your way.
Yes, I think printing presses are (or were) good. I don’t recall making such statements at the MH, but yeah, I probably pontificated about the importance of the printing press at some point in another place.
(Salman, you made a mistake. You should Just give a “my bad” and move on.)
If you think that’s a lot of money, you definitely need to have a talk with your employer at the firm. I’m managing my father’s estate since he’s no longer able to do so himself. The sum is considerably more than that…and he a retired school teacher.
Depends which English teacher.
Exactly. I personally know someone who has done just that.
So, you’re saying they were paid by the Korean Tourism Board to produce those videos? Sneaky.
I’m trying to be discreet, as there are so many people commenting here, who are constantly ready to take umbrage at real or imagined slights. Don’t worry about my financial position. I’m doing all right.
W100,000,000 in cash is still a lot of money for the vast majority of Americans to lay their hands upon, objectively speaking.
Agreed. I am happy for the retired school teacher, but the son should remember that his father’s wealth is after a lifetime of earning and most likely at its pinnacle. Working people often have children, which bring expenses from braces to university educations, and often can’t save a lump outside of their retirement funds and home equity, if those and if they are responsible.
Also, that W100,000,000 is investment capital; that does not include living or personal expenses. Do you want to live in Korea as you tend to your business? How about cheonse or key money deposit?
Do i really sound like an obtuse, white trashy, wingnut douche if the words “teacher” and “earning” in the same sentence instinctively make me chuckle ?
Well, the investor can pay himself a salary from this money, but it’s taxed as income.
Instinctively, eh? We can only hope for medical advances in stem-cell technology to cure you of your condition.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Sorry it was a dumb comment, sometimes i enjoy so much acting like a prick i end up coming across as a dimwitted prick
Here’s a new spin: Your life experiences somehow made it second nature to react the way you did at the thought of “teachers.” Sadly, there are those who give the teaching profession a bad name.
That why I don’t call myself a teacher and insist that my students call me “Midwife Hodges” as I practice my maieutic art upon each pregnant pause . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Aye aye.
In all fairness my teachers were all good people, at times heroic, given the circumstances under which they had to operate …the thing is many teachers stereotipically tend to lean on the left of the political spectrum so i kinda like to poke fun at them. Add on top of that the ESL crowd et voilà, you have a perfect target for internet moronism. I agree it is an old and tiresome joke, it’s 2013 and it’s time to move on, so well here and now i apologise for my stupid comment
PS
Jeffery your students are lucky people
No need to apologize. I wasn’t offended — I was just having fun . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I have running one business or another since I was 19. That’s how I paid for my undergrad and graduate degrees. My brother took out student loans. So, my father didn’t have to pay much for our education. He now receives a generous pension, which covers all of his expenses with a little left over at the end of the month. So, yes, the sum I’m talking about is investment capital.
As for living in Korea while managing a business…I’ve been doing just that for several years. Cheonse? I’ve been burnt once. Never again. I own my place.
In addition to running a business, I am also employed as a professor (one always needs a backup plan). Don’t worry about my earnings.
How did you get burnt on cheonse? The reason I ask is that I tell my wife that the cheonse system here seems to be more of a put option for the owner. If the price of the real estate goes up, the owner makes the profit. If the price goes down, the owner walks, and the cheonse holder is now the bag holder.
Or did the owner simply decide not to return your cheonse?
Can you explain a bit more how you got burnt?
They can’t really walk away without paying as you can sue them…that is, unless they declare bankruptcy. If that happens, you’re screwed because the bank has first dibs on the sale of the apartment. You will only be refunded what is guaranteed by the government, which is just a fraction of what the cheonse was.
You can negotiate a relocation allowance with the new buys, typically 2-4 million won. We opted instead for buying our apartment when it went to auction instead of finding another place to live (the bank screwed up and didn’t offer it to use before it went to auction…which is fine by us because we got it a good 10% cheaper through the auction). Shortly after we bought it, the value increase a good 20% because of a new school being built across the street (part of the reason why we knew placing a bid on the place was probably the wisest choice for us). In the end, we didn’t lose a significant amount of money on the place, but we could have.
Please don’t mind the typos.
It wasn’t stupid. You were being brutally honest. Honesty makes things simple, less need for second-guessing.
As for teachers tending to lean left politically, I think we’re living in confusing times. People are trying to navigate with their own compass and what little clear vision amid the Sign of Chaos.
It’s a mistake that many countries have made.
LM311
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