Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe says he feels the Comfort Women’s pain, but he doesn’t feel they should be a political or diplomatic problem:
Facing questions from an opposition lawmaker Thursday, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe refused to comment on the government’s position on wartime sex slaves, but he did say he feels “heart-breaking pain” when he thinks of how their human rights were violated.
“In this sense, I’m no different than all of the prime ministers of the past. I don’t think this issue should be made into a political or diplomatic problem,” Abe told a Lower House session, answering questions from Japanese Communist Party chief Kazuo Shii about the “comfort women” issue.
“In history, there have been many wars and the human rights of women have been violated. It’s necessary to make the 21st century a century without human right violations,” he said.
So true. I mean, really, who among us hasn’t overseen a massive military-run human trafficking and sexual slavery racket?
When asked about the Kono Statement, Abe passed, saying, “The Kono statement was expressed by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kono. So I, as prime minister, would like to refrain from commenting further… I believe it’s appropriate for the (current) chief Cabinet secretary to deal with the issue.”
And you wonder why people doubt the sincerity of Japanese apologies?
{ 219 comments… read them below or add one }
Just as I thought. The Kono Statement was just a personal apology by a cabinet member, not an official apology by the Japanese government.
Translation: “I just want this to go away without any commitments whatsoever.”
Japanese people will never acknowledge their past barbaric actions. But sooner or later it will bite them in the ass, eventually.
Koreans should just sit back and hold hands with the Chinese until then. Karma never fails to impress.
“I don’t think this issue should be made into a political or diplomatic problem”
But he’s the one who’s making it into a political and diplomatic problem. Why doesn’t he listen to his own advice?
uralpos
Scumbag, the lot of them. Is there a more despicable nation in the world? Karma reared its head and will again for Japan.
It’s their right to pick ‘n’ choose what parts of the system’s legacy to inherit (a la White Guilt, Cries of Reverse Racism, etc. no Japanese exceptionalism here, ‘hear?) Guilt and accountability are an irrelevant nuisance in 2013. It’s not as if Unc Shinzo needs to be strapped to a simulation machine of military sexual slavery (from the same inventors of the pregnancy/birthing simulator), to “feel” the “pains” and their ramifications. Shake a fist for a better tomorrow, and be done!
Seriously. Issues like these do draw the Koreans closer to the Chinese. Anyways, the original agreement to normalize relations in 1965 would not have happened without intense pressure from the Johnson administration. Otherwise, the Japanese would have never done it. Good ole Lyndon wanted a united front in Asia against China, the Russians and the Vietnam War. The 1965 Treaty for the Normalization of Relations between South Korea and Japan was a product of the Cold War, not because of any guilt the Japanese may have felt.
It happened in the past. Korea needs to focus on the future. There are many more pressing issues in Korea than Japan’s misdeeds. The Japanese need to provide no more apologies and Koreans need to get over it. It is very tiresome to hear Korean people saying ‘I hate Japanese’ when they weren’t even born when the Japanese were getting up to that gruesome business.
It’s time for the Koreans and Japanese to get on like good neighbours.
To convince the pain is not merely butt soreness from his Crohn’s disease, Mr. Abe needs to institutionalize repentant “remembrance of past violence” within laws and policies, most of all, through “history education.” That’s how Germany reassured France after the WWII in spite of age-old enmity between the two countries.
“Obey the rule of law Koreans, do everything the government tells you, cause that’s the law….” Now that retarded little Japanese stereo, doesn’t have to “contribute.”
Japan’s leadership is despicable and irredeemable; same as in all its past. Perhaps someday a new generation with human hearts & clear vision will arise and be elected — they could make Japan a republic and reconcile with the world. We can hope, but until then….
Sinister, if you read the Korean media, you will notice one thing. There is some concern over this matter that Japan is increasingly turning right wing. But the issue of comfort women has not been a huge headline grabber. In short, it’s business as usual. Not that nobody really cares, it’s just that the Korean attitude is, Japan being Japan and all, so what else is new? People who read blogs think the entire Korea is foaming at the mouth over the comfort women, and protesting and marching against Japanese on the streets. It just isn’t true.
Now a days, much of the provocations are coming from the other side of the sea, from Japan. As much as people admire Japan as the most awesom country that can do no wrong, at some point, people need to stop pointing out Korea as always the problem. They should start asking why Japanese government can say and do whatever they want, but it always comes back to Korea being the bad guy because Korea doesn’t like the message from Japan. Do we have to like Japan’s message?
“Guilt and accountability are an irrelevant nuisance in 2013.”
That is some scary sh*t.
The U.S. would never let that happen though. If Japan and China ever get into real trouble over those islands, then the U.S. has an obligation to take Japan’s side. In which case, we would be dragged in also. Why else do you think they are building a naval base in Kangjeong village?
I am believing that, at negotiating about the Kono statement, Korean officials promised that neither Korea nor Koreans would ever ask Japan any compensation or bring about the confort women issue anymore in the future if the so-called Kono statement was made public.
The Kono statement is generally written in passive mode indicating that such sentences are mostly stating experiences of the Korean confort women such as Kim Hak-sun whom Japanese officials interviewed.
The part of the statement where the Japanese government or military is the subject, referring to coercion in recruitment of such women, is “at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments”. This is the statement which reflects the well-known military evidence, discovered by Prof. Yoshiaki Yoshimi. Thus, it is necessary to look at the evidence to understand its true meaning.
In my opinion, one thing that we should learn from the past is not repeating the wrong acts that our ancestors did in the past. You Koreans keep praising Germans, but do you even know that the neo-Nazi movement is alive and well in Germany and even a neo-Nazi political group exist? Just watch a video of “Neo-Nazi Flash Mobs” in Germany.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/masked-neo-nazi-immortals-storm-germany-web-article-1.1135968
So tell me why there are so many young neo-Nazi people exist in Germany if they really learn from the past? I don’t see hundreds of Japanese young men acting like those neo-Nazis and committing a “hate
crime”. And Japan’s international behaviour is pristine in comparison with China’s in the post WWII era.
Let’s give credit where credit is due, you are totally right about this. Repentant Germany has one of the highest rate of racially motivated violent crime in the world, something that Japan clearly lacks entirely.
And yes China is ruled by an atrocious government
You really do not know what rule of law is.
Is there anything in the article that hints Kono Statement is just personal?
I really have hard time understanding Koreans.
Your words were “whatever those in power decide is the law and must be obeyed.” Im not at all surprised that a japanese doesnt know about such concepts. No go surf a wave
The German neo nazi movement may be alive but it pales in comparison to the Japanese fasicstic nationalist movement. German simply has far more immigrants and minorities than the xenophobic, fascistic, racist, backwards Japan does.
The US should help China destroy Japan
Irrational Koreans like you give other Koreans a bad name.
Mr. Yoshimi, at the Defense Agency’s library, found “the military’s direct role in managing the brothels, including documents that carried the personal seals of high-ranking Imperial Army officers. Faced with this smoking gun, a red-faced Japanese government immediately dropped its long-standing claim that only private businessmen had operated the brothels.” Read more here.
Stop it Grumpy. Some great literature, film and delicious food has come from Japan. From what I remember, you are a father. Maybe you can take your child to a movie or a museum tomorrow. Let’s all try to get along shall we?
What has Japan done “not to repeat the wrong acts” your “ancestors did in the past?”
You obviously have no idea how much you are embarrassing yourself salaryboy. If you did, you would have checked in for treatment for your Tourettes. I have no idea why you still have the liberty to post your racist hate here.
Maybe Korea and Japan should take a cue from Ireland and Britain, and have the emperor over for tea. There’s a time coming very soon when everyone of that era will be gone and young people here can stop habitually saying silly things like ‘all Japanese are ugly.”
Seriously though, the comfort women should be asked what exactly they want, the Japanese government – and Korean collaborators, like Park Chung hee’s old Japanese army bum chums – should give them it. Everyone else should grow up and shut up.
Interesting to see all these ‘fascist’ condemnations of Japan and Abe, considering the grade A pedigree fascist South Korea just ‘elected’.
Japan regret what they did, that’s why they have kept the constitution to forbid
entering another war, and it has lived up to its national goal of being a force for good in the
world.
And you are dudging my point. Why there are so many young people become neo-Nazi in Germany if they really learn from the past? Do you even know that neo-Nazis commit racist murders? They are dangerous because they preach hate and actually harm people.
I agree with Lion. I don’t understand why SalarymaninSeoul is alllowed to keep posting racist, hateful comments about Japanese people. Is this blog tolerate rasism? The mods are not doing their job.
Probably just a bored North American English teacher pretending to be Korean to get attention.
You said “Japan has kept the constitution to forbid entering another war” to “regret what they did.” Then, Abe’s attempt to to amend the Constitution would be denial of the regret. Do you admit?
Laws, policies and history education against Nazis might not be perfect, but it represents what the nation stand for and believe. Japan lacks that.
And we well know Japanese threatening people at Korea Town, yelling “We will kill you Koreans!” and : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcuUKPKPZS8
Now you have gone too far, young lady. Why are you so obsessed with this topic?
Actually, he doesn’t pretend to be Korean, either. He has his issues with them, too.
Hey, well, I let stereo post here, too.
A. He’s not Korean. B. As opposed to yourself and stereo, who give Japanese a good name?
Obviously, Genie’s point is about the Japanese constitution and the vast majority of Japanese, who are just about the most peaceful body of people you could find anywhere. This is in stark contrast to Korea and China, where the baying mob cheers any natural disaster, or nuclear catastrophe that hits their neighbour. I don’t agree with the Germany example as a fair comparison though.
The document Mr. Yoshimi found at the Defense Agency’s library, and publicized greatly through Asahi Shimbun, appears very delicate and difficult to translate into English. I came across with its English translation which is said to have appeared in a book written by Tsutomu Nishioka although there is a note saying the translation is rather poor. The article including the translation of the document is as follows:
http://ianhu.g.hatena.ne.jp/Stiffmuscle/20080409/p1
(Quote begins)
I will quote from the document as published in Asahi Shimbun. It appears in a collection of documents exchanged between the Ministry of the Army and units assigned to China and entitled “China Area Army Journal: Secret.”
(Translation of military document begins)
Subject: Recruitment of Comfort Women (Communication from adjutant to head staff officers of North China Area Army and Central China Expeditionary Army)
China Area Army No. 745: Secret
04 March 1938
We advise Expeditionary Army personnel to exercise extreme caution in the recruiting of female workers to avoid harm to the prestige of the military and the emergence of social problems. Be aware that unscrupulous brokers may say they are acting on behalf of the military, thus causing the military to lose prestige or generating misunderstandings among the local population. They may also cause social problems by violating regulations and recruiting through war correspondents or visitors. Some of the recruiters cannot be trusted; they lack the judgment required of recruiters, and must be watched carefully, as they have previously been arrested or interrogated by the police for using improper recruiting methods akin to kidnapping. Select recruiters with care and keep control over them. Maintain close contact with the military police and local police authorities.
(Translation of military document ends)
This document does not prove that the military forced women to serve as prostitutes. Asahi Shimbun reported that this document and two others attest to military involvement. But they simply state that the brothels were established to improve military discipline, as rapes committed by Japanese soldiers in war zones would be used as anti-Japanese political propaganda.
Following a logical thought process, we have: the military were concerned about inciting adverse public sentiment in war zones. There was already a fledgling independence movement in colonial Korea. The military wouldn’t have dared angering the local population by coercing women to become prostitutes. Therefore, the document found by Prof. Yoshimi does not prove that the comfort women were coerced. On the contrary, it proves that they were not coerced.
(Quote ends)
As seen in the translation of the military document and explanation on it, the evidence found is rather prohibiting the coercion in the recruitment of comfort women for the dignity of military.
I appreciate your liberal approach Robert. Not sexually, obviously.
Just out of curiosity, what is it that Japan did that they should regret?
Yeah, that could be regret. Or it could be the same reason Japan has never really had a real foreign policy—because it’s simply easier and cheaper for the Americans to do it for them. Which is fine—a lot of countries do that, even if Japan is a rare case where that relationship is codified in the form of a protectorate.
As opposed to the guys parking their black vans in front of embassies, harassing Korean schools, assassinating mayors and burning lawmakers homes, who are paragons of love, peace and understanding?
That’s a good condescending, chauvinistic tone you’ve mastered there. Culture shock must have been a none event for you, young fella-me-lad.
Why did you omit the following Yuki Tanaka’s translation of the military document “approved by the Vice-Minister of War, Umezu Yoshijiro” and “also approved by the Ministry of War, Sugiyama Hajime?”
If you think people can change that much, you are naive potato boy.
(I don’t know why I called you potato boy. This blog brings out the inner netizen in me ^.^)
I’m female. Can’t you tell by my avatar? Ha- someone called me a feminist here the other day.
Everyone knew comfort women and the involvement of Japanese army well before Mr. Yoshimi’s “discovery”.
President Pak, the father, must have known comfort women personally. Nothing new.
And I think others might point out that the reason they are so peaceful is because—and allow me to be perhaps insensitively blunt—they got the bejesus bombed out of them during the war. Losing as badly as Japan did in the way it did leaves an impression. It also helped that the Americans essentially turned Japan into a protectorate, leaving Japan to be as peaceful as they like while the Americans handled security.
I didn’t see any “baying mob” cheer the earthquake or nuclear disaster in Japan. I did see a shit load of Koreans contribute money to the relief effort, though.
Why not? Frankly, I’d love to see Japan become a “normal country” where it can field a military that can cooperate with Korea as part of a wider Asian military partnership that could lessen the load on the United States, like Germany has done through NATO. Chinese diplomacy—or lack of it—may ensure that happens regardless of whether Japan shows true contrition or not, but it would be a lot easier to do if Japan spent more effort building trust and less effort trying to whitewash its past.
What is the goal or purpose of “history eduction”?
No, it brings out the racist, chauvinist in you. You called me potato boy because you assume I’m Irish, as you referred to Genie as young lady, because you assume she is inferior to you. I suggest you have a nice cold Kirin with Genie and sort out this little tiff.
Germany a normal country! Comedy genius! If that were the case, they’d be bombing the hell out of everyone, like the US/UK axis.
Japan is every bit as normal as Germany. Its old men even frequent the same seedy Thai resorts as Germans and Koreans do.
I never look at avatars. Maybe you were a bloke in a previous life?
Everyone… except the Japanese government and Shinzo Abe, apparently:
Why do I have to drink with Genie? I only replied to her/him once. Shouldn’t it be Q having makgeolli with Genie?
I called you potato boy because you called SalarymaninSeoul “salaryboy”. If Genie is actually a young woman, am I justified?
No, I don’t think so, because gender and race are incidental. But maks all round would be preferable to the overrated Sapporo I’m now onto, having finished off the Kirin. I’ve heard Robert Koehler is traditional sort of bloke and could give some tips on some Japanese-friendly makgeolli joints in Seoul
You are already over-reacting even when you know nothing about how Japan change their constitution. Abe isn’t trying to change the constitution to enter another war. He claims that Japan will remain “pacifist policy”. Bear in mind Japan have a Military Force(JIei-Tai) already. The change would be merely reciprocal to that fact. Japan wants to strengthen the military pact with the US. The Japanese want to be to be able to defend their own country, just in case the US decides not taking side in a confrontation with China. Japan will not be the militaristic country once again. That’s just not in general Japanese mentality.
As for those anti–Korean people…Have they actually killed any Korean? You are being desparate if you compare them to neo-Nazis who actually commit mass murder. And neo-Nazism is a much more widespread phenomenon.
You are dudging my point again. Why there are so many young people become neo-Nazi in Germany if they really learn from the past?
You’re right, Genie. As long as they don’t MASS MURDER, they’re totally morally legit.
Jesus christ…
Chancellor Merkel who apologized neo-Nazis murders would be much more normal than PM Abe who himself is a Japanese neo-Nazis. BTW, who elected them?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/world/europe/merkel-apologizes-for-police-handling-of-neo-nazi-killings.html?_r=0
Has stereo ever wished deth on all the Korean people?
Here’s the difference between Germany and Japan. If Merkel gets up on the press conference stand tomorrow and declares that the Third Reich was a victim of the combined Western/Soviet aggression and that the Holocaust wasn’t that bad because there were Jewish collaborators both in the ghettos and the concentration camp, her ass is kicked out of the office and she will barely be able to walk in public.
If a Japanese politician gets up on the press conference stand tomorrow and declares that comfort women were willing prostitutes, that Japan did Korea a favor by occupying them, and that the Rape of Nanking was a hoax… well, apparently he gets to be the Prime Minister, Governor of Tokyo, or Governor of Osaka.
Do you understand the difference? What happened when Todd Akins told America that women can’t get pregnant from being raped? Did he get elected, or was his otherwise promising prospect completely shut down? What can reasonably be deduced about a society from such social reaction to such a comment?
Ha,ha, yeah, I think I saw the guy call you a feminist. Maybe he was drunk too. This blog stuff is fun, but is it really worth the effort?
Yuki Tanaka’s translation, obviously, does not change much from the one cited above. His flexed mind, however, may be giving a different interpretation which appears ridiculous to normal minds.
After reading the two posts I discussed above, I would like you to read the Kono statement once again or for the first time. It only takes not much more than a minute, and may allow you to understand that the statement was given to end the comfort women issue, not to start it, to the consternation of Ms. Yan Sun-in, who is making living on comfort women and the mother-in-law of Asahi reporter Takashi Uemura.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/state9308.html
I previously said Prof. Lind could not be a good scholar, because her argument was rather superficial without digging into the Kono statement.
What ? Am i reading this for real ? Korea should take a cue from whom exactly ? Ireland ?? i mean I-R-E-L-A-N-D ??? The most fulgent, classiest member of the EU bailout bums squad ???
Thie idea that Ireland can dish out patronising, advice to anybody (and with some cacophonic accent on top of it all) is pure, surreal comedy gold of Monty Pythonesque proportions…something along the lines of the Ministry of silly bankruptcies
Well, it seems despite my timely intervention, I can’t save the Japanese from being ravaged by the Korean Koehler wolves. Good luck Genie! Your prime minister is an idiot, but your country will not be plumbing the depths of the Park dynasty any time soon. Unfortunately, every country in the region seems intent on regression these days.
Robert, I am saying every Japanese knew it despite NYT entertaining writing. I knew it well before 1993.
>who lobbied to rescind the 1993 admission of state responsibility.
Every Japanese knows that he did not tried to “rescind” Kono statement of 1993, but to “correct factual
error” in the statement.
Question is “is it OK to correct government statement if a factual error is found?”
I know Koreans, Americans, Australians and Germans as well as most of the people here are loudly arguing that government statement should not be corrected even if a factual error is found. But if so,
why not?
If you were that clever, you would know an Irishman would never write what I wrote. It’s also great to see yet another healthy dose of bigotry and prejudice on this most reasonable of blogs.
Those neo-Nazi’s don’t become cabinet ministers in Germany. On the other hand, in Japan, the black van people are now part of Shinzo Abe’s government.
It’s not just Article 9, Abe’s government wants to change. They want to change the Japan’s entire national constitution and the way they are passed, including getting rid of human rights (which are redefined as keeping public order), compromise freedom of press, even loosening protection against torture. Japan’s government looking more and more like they want to turn the clock back to 1940 Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan#Amendment_Drafts_by_the_LDP
Fascist Japan 2012 style.
So does that rant mean Ireland has no post-colonial voice, due to suffering something along the lines of… Korea’s IMF bailout perhaps? How shameful!
I mean, really, who among us hasn’t overseen a massive military-run human trafficking and sexual slavery racket?
- Every South Korean President since DJ Kim.
Obviously, it’s not “to end the comfort women issue.”
I never said that they are totally morally legit. Stop twisting my words.
If you want to see something disturbing, then look at drawings by Korean students.
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558
It wasn’t some crazy nationalists who drew those pictures, but students from a middle school with the consent of their teachers, administration, and municipal government (hence their location in a subway). Of course the principal or teachers of the school didn’t take any flak. How will Koreans react if they see Japanese students posting pictures of that nature up at the public
place.
Kettles and pots.
Everyone has the right to know the truth. No one is obliged to believe some government propaganda.
But if the argument to find the truth is oppressed by the logic shown by Robert, how do we reach the truth?
“We regret, so we do not argue. We blindly believe what Koreans and Chinese determine.” Is this what you want?
Wow, I’m exhausted! And to think, you guys do this blogging stuff regularly… And sober! Adios geeks.
Dude Korea repaid their loans quickly, spitting blood without stealing money from other countries.
Dear fuckin Irecunt already jacked up my taxes and they keep whining all the time about not paying back.
Do you see Irish people donating their gold to repay their debts ? they don’t even belong in the same sentence with Koreans.
By the way i didn’t imply you were Irish, i just thought it was laughable that a succesful country like Korea should go get advice from a EU welfare recipient, and a fuckin’ arrogant one on top of everything.
And yes i hate all my fellow European brothers, i won’t deny that, excuse me for livin’
The Abe administration has considered and will likely continue to consider pulling the Kono Statement. I really have a hard time understanding the Japanese.
Read the Kono statement, stereo, that pronounced “We hereby reiterated our firm determination never to repeat the same mistake by forever engraving such issues in our memories through the study and teaching of history.”
Do I have to repeat my question?
“We shall face squarely the historical facts as described above instead
of evading them, and take them to heart as lessons of history.” – Kono statement.
That describes one of the purposes of history education.
You can learn Koreans views on the Kono statement at that time by the Yonhap article:
http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/international/2012/12/16/0602000000AKR20121216030600043.HTML
The site, however, appears closed right now.
Constitution and laws are subject to change. Do you conclude they are not official but private?
You are totally getting misinformations. Can you stop acting like you know everything about Japan when you can’t even read Japanese?
Yes, but it was a disappointing conclusion and not one that came about from the beginning. I had to see it play out… over and over again. Sad.
I gave a reference to a Yonhap article below, and giving it again here.
http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/international/2012/12/16/0602000000AKR20121216030600043.HTML
I cannot somehow open the site tonight, but it gives an interview with the highest Korean official on that matter at that time. It clearly says that they will never ask compensation, and from my memory, I believe Koreans said they would never come up with the issue again if the statement went public.
OK. So, “no military brothel” is the purpose. Is not it effectively done though education to soldiers and officers, rather than through high school education.
hope you end up dismembered and decapitated. Cunt
hope you end up dismembered and decapitated. Cunt..
hope you end up dismembered and decapitated. Cunt
hope you end up dismembered and decapitated. Cunt..
die of aids moron
die of aids moron.
off yourself cretin
Anti,
Totally off topic. You get a warning. Next will be a ban, not a warning.
That’s a bot. It shows up every now and then, spouting the same type of message. Just ban it now.
Do not forget many, many Japanese strongly support “Kono Statement”. Fascist Abe now start playing with real fire. Kono Statement has been and is recognized as the official statement by Japanese government. Look at Japanese Foreign Ministry’s website. That the reason why Abe wants to remake the statement . But, he is already backing down due to the strong opposition by the human right supporters inside and outside the Japan.
The Bible says “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her.”
While Japan might do the severe thing during the war, and what about S.Korea and China ? S.Korean soldiers killed many Vietnamese women and children so cruelly at the Vietnam War. They raped Vietnamese women, as the result many mixed-race children of S. Koreans and Vietnamese (famous as Lai Đại Hàn,) was born after the War.
When the Vietnamese blamed the S.Koreans about it, a S.Korean military officer said “We couldnt help it, because it was war ”
what about China? Chaina is invading Tibet and Uighur now, not in the past! Many Tibetans have been killed under torture or suicide.
They shut their eyes to their own faults.
Pretty sure south korea apologized to vietnam, and no one went “but those vietnamese loved getting raped by us koreans!”
But please. Do go on, uh, Ninja.
They did once, but cancelled, because proud hero soldiers did not want to become sinners.
This is such a red herring. 6 million Japan troops in all kinds of places they were not suppose to be and not wanted. 50k Korean troops at the INVITATION of the South Vietnamese government. All of a sudden this is the great equalizer. What a load of rubbish. this is a big fat red herring and needs to be understood and treated as such.
Link? I found tons of KDJ’s apology but none about retraction.
South Korea went into Vietnam and fought there for eight years, to help South Vietnam fight communism, with the invitation of South Vietnam and the US. They didn’t go there to colonize and exploit Vietnam and turn them into third class subjects of South Korea for 35 years. Apples and oranges, but one of favorite excuses used by Japanese.
Kim Dae Jung already apologized in 2000, and the relations between Vietnam and SK have been pretty good, with Vietnam being South Korea’s number one aid destination and number two foreign investment destination.. If Vietnam wanted another apology from South Korea, I”m sure that wouldn’t be a problem at all, with Koreans fully recognizing that some Korean soldiers committed mass murder of Vietnamese civilians. But it is up to Vietnam to ask for what they want, not Japan. There is no-one in Korea excusing, denying what happened, nor accusing the Vietnamese victims were prostitutes and that they wanted it. Again, fail.
Consistent posting of untruths will be considered trolling and is subject banning, if abused.
Salaryman,
Settle down dude.
I was in public school when the Vietnam was still waging in the early 1970′s. I remember the news reels of Korean soldiers fighting desperately to hold on to an important highway from a massive North Vietnamese attack, long after all the American ground troops had left Vietnam. Later in the decades, I read that South Koreans had suffered horrendous casualty running into hundreds of deaths in matter of just days, but they managed to keep that highway open. I remember our school patriotically writing letters to soldiers who were serving in Vietnam and the Korean DMZ. The school organized donation drives for clothes and other necessities to help out the Vietnamese people who were suffering from war. We were told, we also once went through the same things as the Vietnamese people were going through not too long ago, and that we shouldn’t forget to help them, as the UN helped us. I saw many news reels of South Korean military trucks full of aids that we sent them, being handed out to South Vietnamese people. Korean soldiers helped the South Vietnamese with rebuilding schools and budhist temples. They also helped the local farmers to harvest the rice for the Vietnamese people. Korean soldiers didn’t confiscate all the rice, like the Japanese did in Korea. South Vietnamese Naval ports like Cam Rhan Bay and Na Trang were practically built by South Korean construction companies hired by US military. Of course this was during the Park Chung Hee days and all of the news were censored. But that still doesn’t negate the fact that South Korea helped South Vietnam when South Korea was still under difficult circumstances, including sacrificing 5000 dead and 10,000 wounded to help guard South Vietnam against Communism. As for South Korean atrocity, yeah they happened, who’s denying them? There is no denying that there were some pissed off Korean soldiers seeing their buddies killed by unseen Viet Congs, went berserk with anger. But it wasn’t a Korean military’s policy to mistreat the locals, like Japan’s systematic comfort women policy. And It was the Korean media starting in 1999 who spread this to the world, widely publicizing the atrocities. South Korean contrition which accepts responsibility, despite the fact that both North and South Vietnamese were far more cruel to each other and committed far more war crimes against each other. If Vietnamese don’t think it’s enough, then it is up to them to speak up and demand from Korea. But Japanese have no say in what the Vietnamese feel.
What factual error?
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/state9308.html
Or the Society for History Textbook Reform, for that matter.
Comfort Women? Rape of Nanking? Lies! All Lies!
One can only hope that the Great Gwangju Subway Children’s Paintings Incident of 2005 will be remembered, along with the Comfort Women, the assassination of Queen Min, the colonization of Korea and the Imjin War, as one of the most shameful incidents in the history of Korea—Japan relations. I shall dash off an email to the Society for History Textbook Reform forthwith.
I’m sorry, was there a point?
Rob,
The Japanese are regretful of all the pain and suffering they have cased other Asians. Now, they themselves can never agree upon what the specific things are, but they are really, really sorry… whatever it was.
S.Koreans showed their sincere apologies and remorse to the Vietnamese ? They allowed SK’s barbaric, cruel acts? If really so,I suppose S.K just got lucky because the partner they fought was not S.K.
Japan also has apologized repeatedly for it’s wartime actions, and has given immense economic aid to S.K after the war. The money surely became a part of the base of economic growth of S.Korea like now. Despite this they would never forgive Japan. I think S.K should learn from the Vietnamese in this respect. Don’t you think so, too?
This is a red herring. Just ignore it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Thank you chuka. I had wished that the Japanese people had chosen a better leader than Abe, but oh well.
Japan also has apologized repeatedly for what? Many Japan supporters here are saying Japan did nothing wrong from the start. This includes the Japanese government. What did Japan supposedly apologized for? That they lost the war?
Apology not accepted.
Go back, after thinking it over, come back here and try again, Japan.
providence, unlike Japan, you won’t see any Koreans saying those Vietnamese deserved it because they asked for it. That’s the crux of the difference which you are unable to grasp.
That’s what I’ve been thinking all along, that despite the idiot politicians commenting on Comfort Women, vast majority of the Japanese people doesn’t think the way Abe and the ilk thinks. Right up until Abe and his gang of Imperial Guards became the new face of Japan… again.
I mean, how much is Abe being PM reflective of Japan as a society? How is someone like that not political poison like Nazism is in Germany and Racism/Sexism is in America? Is it just apathy? Because apathy isn’t exactly all that better either.
Find me one Korean president after KDJ who said that Vietnamese victims of Korean atrocities were liars, whores, and/or grateful that Koreans were there to kill Vietnamese civilians. Find me one.
Go on. You wanna make a tu quoque argument. At least finish it first.
66% of Japanese who approve and support Abe and his black van henchmen, don’t agree with your view, bum. The vast majority of Japanese? no.
I guess I was too optimistic.
Here is a summary of “apologies” of Korean presidents on Vietnam:
http://japanese.joins.com/article/819/121819.html
According to the article, Korean president’s statements closer to “apologies” are the two similar or same statements made by KDJ. The article says that the statement was denied by PKH. So, please show me an example of authentic presidential apology on atrocities committed by Korean military in Vietnam.
If we could keep this on topic, why SHOULDN’T the Koreans invite the Emperor over for tea? Putting aside the economics (which are only slightly rosier for Britain than for Ireland), the Queen’s visit to Dublin was an important step in the normalisation of relations between the nations and Korea and Japan would both benefit from a similar gesture.
I don’t think this is a bad idea. Emperor Akihito seems like a pretty nice and open minded guy. However, in order for it to have the same effect as the Queen’s visit to Ireland, he would have to be willing to do this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/18/queen-ireland-apology-britains-actions
Which could give the Japanese right wing an aneurysm.
A couple more complications the more I think about it. Koreans were required to worship the Emperor, sometimes by threat of death. More than a few Korean Christians were killed for not worshiping the Japanese Emperor. That whole episode left a bad taste in Korean’s mouths because of the religious aspect.
But what would be better than a visit by the Emperor would be something ratified by the Diet, thus it would be illegal to have a loony PM flavor of the month contradict it. A formal body made up of moderate historians from Korea and Japan to set up joint historical text book materials would be good too. IMHO, money shouldn’t be talked about.
The only point which I want you to understand on the comfort women issue is that there has been no single evidence which indicated government or military coercion in recruitment of comfort women. I do not deny military cooperation in many facets of their lives. Even the most famed ian (comfort, entertainment, etc.) man of the US, Bob Hope, may not have been possible to provide his services at military camps in foreign lands without much cooperation of the military.
I gave one link at wankon936′s below. As for retraction, I can only find those at personal blogs so far, as I search using Japanese and English words. The link below can be suffice for today.
I understand that it is your prerogative to block my comments, but I would like to ask you to point out some untruths found in my posts before I am blocked.
“The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited
against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at
times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the
recruitments.” – Kono statement
The article says that President Kim Dae-Jung apologized in 1998 when he visited Vietnam. Park Geun-Hye, vice-president of Hanara party, opposed to the apology saying that it is as if making an apology to KJI communists for the Korean War. Anyhow, President KDJ, in his visit to Vietnam in 2001, apologized again. President Roh MH, in 2004, made an apology when he visited Vietnam. Vietnam government’s position is Vietnam does not need apology for the War Vietnam had won. Korean government decided to react whenever Vietnamese raise the issue.
Korean language article of the Japanese translation: http://article.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.asp?total_id=3834782&cloc=
“at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments.” This part of the Kono statement was written based on the evidence found by Mr. Yoshimi. That is, the mode of participation of administrative/military personnel is for prevention of coerced recruitment of comfort women being conducted by pimps. How can you reproach administrative/military personnel for such conduct?
Such were the reasons why the military intervened in the manner of recruitment as described immediately following the statement and proven by the evidence found by Mr. Yoshimi.
I thought that old Korean soldiers were saying that “It Was War!”
Vietnamese must really be people of pride. They have the history of winning major wars against the US, China and even Mongolians.
Even though “in many cases” the women were “recruited against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc.” by private recruiter, Japanese administrative/military is responsible for that. It is nonsense they did not know so many women were coerced into comfort stations. “Armies in the field will control the recruiting of women,” and “this task will be performed in close cooperation with the military
police or local police force of the area.”- a notice written on March 4, 1938, by the adjutant to the chiefs of
staff of the North China Area Army and Central China Expeditionary
Force.
Kono statement admitted that comfort women “lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.” Coercion was no difference between Japanese military/administration and private recruiters who earned money as a subcontractor.
providence, do you wish Japan had win against Allied Powers that Japan could control entire East Asia?
Let’s talk about things related to Korea. Matters which apply only to China make the discussion more complicated. I believe Japan has a Peace Treaty with China, separate from the Treaty with Korea, which has nothing to do with Korea.
How did Mr. Kono come to know the life of comfort women who “lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.” This part reflects the statements obtained through interviews with Kim Hak-sun and other former “comfort women.”
That’s right, it was war. In war’s atrocities happen, and some South Korean soldiers went out of control. Nobody denies this. But you still have failed to provide anything to support and mitigate Japanese officials blaming the victims and rewriting history.
Wandkon936, so, constitution of Korea is just a private document.
Oh my. So, you were talking about this issue even without knowing Abe’s position.
But before we go to detail, why do not we agree on the first question?
“Is it OK to correct government statement if a factual error is found?”
“The fact is, if you can’t use anything except official documents, history itself is impossible to elucidate” “There are things that are never written in official documents”
“That they were forcibly recruited — that’s the kind of thing that
would have never been written in the first place.” Mr. Yoshimi answered your question.
I thought you are familiar with the modern history of Japan more than I. Japanese leaders knew that Japan would easily lose the war, before the war began, if it started with the US. The wealth of Japan at that time can be much less than that of Korea now. Do you think Korea will win if she makes war against the whole world?
I asked you because you sound jealous of Vietnam: “people of pride”, “history of winning major wars against the US, China and even Mongolians.”
Do I have to preach how science develops? Science develops because everything is open to criticism. If no criticism is allowed, it is superstition.
Now, it seems you think no criticism against comfort women issue should be allowed and that anyone who criticizes comfort women should be criticized and ridiculed. I think such attitude is not healthy. I can think of a couple of regimes that oppressed criticism in the last century, of which all collapsed. Do you like such regimes?
The way science develops isn’t blindly questioning an established truth every time some random asshole challenges it. Where is the reasonable cause to think otherwise? So far, all you or anyone whose moral compass is so fucked thst they think Abe et al. are justified has presented are red herrings, tu quoques, and sources that would make any legitimate scholars laugh.
Your current argument is no different than a evangelical claiming that we should teach intelligent design in biology class because science should embrace criticisms to doctrines.
Yes, it looks like the opposition against Uncle Abe is not doing well in Japan this time. Since Occupied American Military had used the people like Abe’s grandpa, one of the elites in the former Imperial government to quell the leftist insurgence after the WW II, they were the one who had been in power until Democratic Party took over 3 years ago, however the latter has miserably failed and now totally collapsed thanks to the U.S, Korean and Chinese governments!!. As today, Japanese leftists which was used to be the strongest opponent to the LDP has been long gone with the Berlin wall, Uncle Abe has no major opposition. Is there any hope for Japan? Well, look, uncle Abe is already stumbling. He may be his biggest enemy to himself. Thank god for the fact that Japan posses no strong military power nor overseas territory to bring the glory of former Imperial Japan back.
>”It is a sad and regrettable reality that through history our islands have experienced more than their fair share of heartache, turbulence and loss … with the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we wish had been done differently, or not at all.”
>”To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy.”
If Japanese emperor says the same as QE2 did, Koreans will start shouting “it is not sincere”.
Unfortunately, it really sounds like Abe is going to change all that.
I have a friend who writes short stories, and one of her work involved a near future where America had been slowly taken over by fascists. They amended the constitution to their liking… and what she came up with sounds a lot like what they’re proposing now. Replacing ‘liberty’ and ‘human rights’ with ‘public order’? That’s some. Orwellian shit right there.
I wonder what you are talking about by “Japanese officials blaming the victims and rewriting history.”
>established truth
There are a lot of aspects in the comfort women issue that are not established.
How many comfort women were there? How many of them were Korean? How were they recruited?
These questions by no means deny the existence of comfort women, but Koreans tend to react strongly as if these questions themselves are inappropriate.
Especially from the perpetrators themselves. Gee, I wonder why a rape victim would act strongly when the rapist, after apologizing, goes “Well, let’s be clear. I penetrated your vagina, but not the asshole, right? And it’s not like it went on for like an hour. It was more like 45 minutes. Oh, and you kinda enjoyed it, right? I was extra gentle when I was, uh, ‘sleeping’ with you. What do you mean, shut up? Jesus, you’re so unreasonable. Can’t you face that fact that you kinda enjoyed it when it all happened? It’s not a proven, recorded fact that I was, uh, ‘making love’ to you for a full hour. That’s just ridiculous. There was a TV on, and that show is only 50 minutes long, remember? You don’t remember? Well then, how can we know what really happened? I’m sorry if your feelings were hurt, but I just want to make everything official and clear.”
Yeah, you’re right, history and moral lessons should only be taken from nations that are (currently) profitable. Any country who is currently in a dire financial situation does not deserve to have their history consulted. In fact, how dare they even be metioned. About anything. Ever.
One thing that I wish Korea could have done was to help and support Noda when he was in office instead of driving him into a corner. There were some real cooperation going on between Japan and Korea during the Fukushima crisis. But even with South Korea’s support for Noda, that still may not have been nearly enough, considering how bad the Japanese economy has been doing. I’m afraid, nothing could have averted Abe’s election.
This reminds me the situation between white Americans and black Americans in 1990s when I was there. White Americans were in a rather awkward position because they think they were unfairly accused of what they did not do but their ancestors did to the ancestors of black Americans then, and it is politically incorrect to say so in public.
I do not know the situation today, but I think things have changed with a black President at the top. Can anyone tell me the reconciliation development since then?
Good perfect example. You will never hear white Americans denying slavery existed. You will never hear whites saying blacks were the ones who sold other blacks and they’re the ones responsible for slavery. Most white Americans recognize slavery was evil, and even it took place more than 150 years ago, the issue of slavery is very much a fabric of American colonization. They have black history month, they celebrate Martin Luther King days, and in their text books, they describe how slavery was enslaving an entire race while white slave owner profiteered. It’s a perfect example how they teach history, versus how Japan handles their history through denials and rewrites.
Japan can’t even hold America’s candle. Don’t even try and going there.
More importantly, if, say, a senator or the president ever went on a press conference and said “slavery wasn’t that bad”, “blacks were the ones who sold other blacks and they’re the ones responsible for slavery” “It was 150 years ago, get over it”, his or her political career would be toast.
You know, as opposed to getting a huge political boost come election time.
What would happen if the US politicians come out and say Black slavery didn’t exist? Would there be a world backlash? Stereo brings out a good point.
I do not think a cross examination in a criminal trial is wrong. I think most Japanese think so, too. Here again, rule of law. I think emotion is more important for Koreans than rule of law is.
You used to hear whites talk about how slavery also existed in Africa and Africans sold their own to the white man. All of which was probably technically true, and if you’re a historian or African studies scholar, it might be of interest, but the only reason a public figure would bring that up is that they are trying to mitigate white responsibility.
I think Salaryman pretty much handled your concept of “rule of law” already. I mean, you’re applying it to this case, which already demonstrates how laughably uninformed you are about the concept.
Oh, and love the way you keep spewing comparisons. What a perfect way to obscure and fracture the discussion at hand. What will you come up with next to justify the morally fucked way Abe et al. has been handling the comfort women issue? I can’t wait.
It is the way of the Japanese right and their Wapanese fanboys. I think protecting their ancestors’ honor is more important for Japanese than justice and human decency are
stereo, your question has been answered repeatedly (Yuki Tanaka, Japan’s Comfort Women (Asia’s Transformations)):
Tanaka’s research provided other numbers:
Tanaka estimated 80,000 to 100,000 enforced sex slaves, which were calculated based only on the sex slave supply plan of 1941 for Japanese Imperial army in China and Southeast Asia. If we count women like Ch’oe Myungsun who were initially drafted for Women’s Voluntary Labor Service Corps
and later enforced to be sex slaves, hidden or destroyed document’s number of women, and enforced sex slaves of other nationalities — such as China, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, and Netherlands — the number could be estimated to reach 200,000 or more.
Do you understand the importance of defendants’ rights in rule of law?
Please stop replying to this thread! Que, Providence and Stereo – may I suggest getting a room? The three of you could video conference using something like Google+hangout and talk at each other all you want. Plus the added bonus of finding out if one of you looks like G. Bevers.
Mr. Yoshimi must learn how to read Japanese document before being a historian. How could he explain a document in an opposite way as he did with the document which led to the Kono statement.
Mr. Tanaka must have made a fortune just rewriting known-things in English based on books and documents easily available to him or anyone.
He should not have been a historian from the first place if he keeps complaining about the lack of documents he would like. It is said that a government document is duplicated into quite many copies before it reaches local teams or something of the sort, and it is impossible to totally eliminate or hide such documents.
Japanese POWs of Communist China were so talkative, in videos once you showed in this blog. He must be something other than historian before being a historian to get information from other people rather than papers.
Thank you, Q337. It is now clear to everyone that there is no “established facts” with regard to the number of comfort women. Tanaka’s estimate includes women from Taiwan, China, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Malaysia and so on, your calculation is out right wrong.
Do you understand the concept of false premise, adversarial court system, and basic human decenc- well, scratch that last one. We all know where you stand on that last one.
May I ask why?
‘Abe must prioritize ‘comfort women’ issue for good of international community’. I see some hope in the Mainichi article, though it is was published last year December. I agree with the conclusion that “Arguing that “coercion” in the “strict sense” did not exist is like turning one’s back on the good of the international community, and will only serve to isolate Japan from the rest of the world.”
The British monarch is the head of the Church of England, which was the state church of England and Ireland (under the name of the Church of Ireland) until 1920. The Penal Laws compelled everyone in Ireland to attend this church and tried to eradicate the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland. This situation was no similarly oppressive to what the Koreans suffered, but the nations are moving on. Ihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_%28Ireland%29
And the Chosun emperors were pretty good at executing Korean Christians without any Japanese assistance, so please don’t pretend that the Japanese created intolerance on the Korean penninsula: http://tour-eng.jeonju.go.kr/board/view.sko?boardId=green_tour&boardSid=18&menuCd=AB04000000000&contentsSid=465&dataSid=27082&startPage=1&categoryCode1=eng&categoryCode2=&gubun=1
Are you saying the Japanese Emperor has never apologized? This says otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan#cite_note-12
“Reflecting upon the suffering that your people underwent during this
unfortunate period, which was brought about by our nation, I cannot but
feel the deepest remorse” Emperor Akihito in address during meeting with Pres. Roh Tae Woo (a real nice guy himself).
I think there is a fundamental difference between head of state, head of religion and a combination of both including, being a living god. It leaves a greater negative impression over a longer period of time.
Any ways, the Brits and the Irish have a lot more water under the bridge in terms of time. Although much has happened for a longer period of time between those two peoples. However, having said that, Koreans haven’t quite forgotten 1592. Damage from that invasion was immense. Actually, one of the things that cased great decline in late Chosun was when the Heungseon Daewongun drained the treasury trying to rebuild Gyeongbokgung palace, which was destroyed way back in 1592. It was his misguided attempt to restore vitality in the kingdom during Western encroachment. But it tells you that even in the late 19th century, Korea was still recovering from something that happened 300 years ago.
Bob,
You ignore that the Joseon emperors were getting increasingly tolerant to Protestant missionaries, advisors and medical staff during the Dae Han phase. This in no way means that the Dae Han Empire was getting increasingly tolerant to different religions, but it had more incentive to do so to gain alternative developmental models. Given that Korean rulers were not gods themselves or drew their authority from religion (Joseon was a Neoconfucian state, after all), religious heterogeneity could at least be theoretically more possible in Korea than Japan at that time.
Don’t forget Dutch women (that included a married woman and a 13 year-old girl) and boys who were coerced to be sexually exploited by Japanese soldiers at military brothels.
http://mainichi.jp/english/english/perspectives/news/20121225p2a00m0na010000c.html
Uh… that statement was released in May of 1990, but Akihito was enthroned in November 1990? I’m a little confused.
Another difference. The Queen made her statement in Ireland.
Any ways, IMHO I think a state visit by Akihito would be a good idea. I don’t think he necessarily needs to apologize while in Korea. There does need to be a series of things that need to happen to pave the way for an official state visit, but I don’t think any of that will happen with Japan under the current administration.
You have heard of ‘the divine right of kings,’ haven’t you? Yes, we are still waiting for the Glorious Revolution in Asia, but you should really read up a bit more on the Anglican church and the monarch’s role as both Head of State and Defender of the Faith. It’s not exactly inspiring, and it’s not a lot better than living under Hirohito. The monarch’s role is so central that it forced Anglicans in America to renounce their former spiritual leaders and to become Episcopalians instead. In fact, this quarrel over whether or not the Pope or the Monarch is the one true leader of the one true church is at the heart of the dispute between Ireland and England and has led to countless suffering. And yet, they still don’t do things like this to each other:
http://www.japanprobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bird-smashing-korea.jpg
You’re right that the Brits and the Irish are arguing over the events of 1916-1921 and the Koreans and Japanese over 1945, also that British incursions into Ireland began with the Normans. I know that the Japanese destroyed huge parts of Korea, some of which have never truly recovered, but the same can be said for Ireland whose population pre 1840 was 8 million and is still only back up to 5 million. There are abandoned houses from little stone sheds and huge mansions both old and new all over Ireland, and the major cities all have monuments at their harbours to famine victims who left. Frankly, parts of Germany have yet to recover from damage the Swedes did in the 30-Years War. Move on.
I know the Queen made her statement in Dublin, that’s the visit we were talking about. So you’re saying that it would be a good thing for what’s his nuts son-of-god boy to come get drunk in Insadong, even though you’re so obsessed with putting him down that you’re picking apart his statements from 23 years ago and only as to their timing (even if he only was Crown Prince, it’s a telling statement). Well that sounds like Korea is ready to accept him as a guest. The insults will start as soon as the press release goes out, and you’re blaming the Japanese?
True on the last point, but this sort of ‘lets take the parts of Western society we can use and discard the rest’ is still how Korea deals with the outside world.
How else can you explain Korean two-year olds talking to Philipina English teachers via internet telephones in robots with white faces? What a solution: take the language, racially disparage the Philipinos (even though Koreans make fun of their ‘colony accents’) to keep them out but take advantage of their low wages and get rid of the swinging d–ks in Itaewon.
Or the fact that Korea seems to feel that multi-culturalism means persuading Korean farmers not to murder their Vietnamese wives.
Or HIV testing of western teachers because we all know how immoral and sexually promiscuous they are.
In my less generous moments, I feel like Koreans only want to take what they can from the outside world (like money and endless apologies from Japan and getting the Americans involved in their territorial disputes) but offer very little in terms of respect and accommodation for other cultures.
providence, not all war documents were eliminated or hidden. Ask Mr. Abe to release the above classified documents so that researchers could study further.
Notice that now uncle Abe and his crony contends the Kono statement is private. But the statement has been and is considered to be official by the Japanese and Korean government all along. From the start the statement has provoked a strong vocal opposition to uncle Abe’s powerful predecessors. Prof. Hata, mother of all the voluntary sex slaves theory, has stated in his article that it had invoked the firm determination to undermine the abominable statement. What they want to change in the statement is to erase the military involvement of recruitment. At least for them it looks that Japanese military did not force the victims to get into the system therefore they are totally off the hook. They desperately want to guard the reputation of the Imperial Army. But they should remember once the victims were in the system, they were never able to get out. They were locked inside the compound under 24H watch. The runaways were brought back by force and violently punished. There is a well known diary by the Japanese army doctor who was a promoter for the comfort station mainly to keep Japanese soldiers off from STD, in which he has written that he himself had brought back a Korean runaway to the comfort station in China. I think they are a bunch of loonies but they are very dangerous and harmful like any other fanatics.
I am rather surprised you could not find any Japanese or English articles that report the highest Korean official’s interview, if it were so notable.
>Notice that now uncle Abe and his crony contends the Kono statement is private.
What? It is official and PM Abe thinks it official. That is why he is very serious about the correctness of the statement.
He became the Emperor of Japan on January 7, 1989. The enthronement ceremony took place in November 1990. State visit is possible only upon the invitation of the host country.
It is amusing to see how many of the 2ch types confuse a political decision to right a historical injustice with the criminal justice system. It seems they think if they yell “If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit” long enough, people will actually begin to believe the Japanese imperial military didn’t actually run a massive human trafficking/rape ring.
This thread is one, massive chunk of troll-bait that I think Uncle Robert has tossed out into the internet.
I would rather hear about the proposed number of Japanese nuclear weapons.
>people will actually begin to believe the Japanese imperial military didn’t actually run a massive human trafficking/rape ring.
Why? Contrary to what you say, skepticism is the surest way to reach the truth. Look, the entire science is built on skepticism. Do we have any strange conclusion in science due to skepticism? Actually, your logic is used by people who want to hide the truth.
For a government policy to actually take effect, the related document is duplicated, as I wrote before, into thousands of copies. Historians just crying over non-existing or non-available government documents cannot be good historians.
Among many self-claimed “comfort women,” only two of them, Kim Hak-sun and Moon Ok-ju were identified (by Prof. An Byeong-jik) as such. Moon Ok-ju said she was once taken to a comfort station in China by a person who was in uniform. She is known as a comfort woman who was very rich.
Kim Hak-sun, on the other hand, described herself for her trial in Japan that she was first sold at 40 yen to his step father who was operating Gisaeng house. And after a few years, she was taken by his step father to a military comfort station in 1941 when she was 17. She also had a Korean customer with whom she left there to Shanghai when it was 1941 still.
Once you study the problem, you will find that there is almost nothing to teach Japanese children about it.
Well, thank God we have the Society for History Textbook Reform to set the world straight.
It may not be very difficult to find such articles written in Japanese, but they don’t usually have much power in convincing Koreans. With that Korean article, you would believe that Koreans were negotiating for Kono statement with such words as “Korea will never demand compensation on this matter.” Do you think Koreans have kept those words in good heart?
Who are “we?” The very existence of such organization indicates the presence of textbook problems. It appears a matter of who controls the organization.
It is not all about the “shut-up money”. Laws, policies, and history education matters. Kono statement promised “study” and “history education” “never to repeat the same mistake by forever engraving such issues” in Japanese “memories”. How many Japanese textbooks teach about this issue? If it is not so difficult to find the interview article, please do so and link it as you often did whenever you find convenient for your opinion.
Or perhaps just those interested in historical accuracy?
I agree, it’s usually from loathsome bigots, but are we to censure history to the point where we censure part of it beyond recognition just in case someone tries to manipulate to their own gain?
You’re on as dangerous territory as the Japanese (and Korean) revisionists.
I think that the confort women issue had been written in most relevant Japanese textbooks since the Kono statement. The link below at least provides information about how textbooks handled related issues.
http://www.zephyr.dti.ne.jp/~kj8899/kyoukasho.html
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Japanese_Military%27s_%22Comfort_Women%22_System#The_Comfort_Women_Issue_in_Japanese_Textbooks
I have a Korean high-school history textbook translated into Japanese. The textbook does not seem to write anything about Korean comfort women who worked for Korean, US and UN soldiers during and after the Korean war. From the discussion we have seen above, the comfort women working for the Japanese solders were not those kidnapped or coerced by force by the Japanese army or MP. In that sense, there is not much difference between them except that those working in Korea were paid by the Government.
I wonder why you want them written in Japanese textbooks but not theirs (yours) in Korean textbooks.
Most of all, Kono statement promised to do that. And the Japanese military comfort stations involved numerous women of many nationalities (that includes Dutch and Australian nationalities) over vast areas of Japanese conquest to Asia. Korean War brothels were limited in Korea and were for Koreans and invited allied soldiers. (No wonder there are no nations that demand apology to SK.)
The true reason why he wants to change the statement is that he and his crony are confident that the Kono statement is the main cause of the international criticism, not the fact.
They contend that without the statement no body believe the lies by the former Korean comfort women.
They are extremely angry that the statement had shamed Japan and Japanese people.
Furthermore they accuse all the Japanese who support the Kono statement of treason.
Those are the exact words spoken in Japanese.
This is the reason why we call uncle Abe the fascist.
Kono Statement mentions history education, but it does not specifically say high school history education. As we discussed before, if the purpose is to prevent military brothels, history education to soldiers and officers is what is required in Kono Statement.
>Korean War brothels were limited in Korea and were for Koreans and ‘invited’ allied soldiers.
So, you say it is OK if the victims are Koreans. That alleviates my moral obligations a bit. (No, I am joking.) Q337, you should really care for your female compatriots, rather than see them pawns.
When senior German officials and politicians minimise the atrocities that Germany committed on the people of Europe then you might have a point.
Robert I second this. The problem is many Japanese and Wapanese have accepted so much this idea that the Japanese are “peaceful” etc that they cannot fathom that Japan was a cruel militarist/fascist state in the past. It explains why you have so many apologists lurking around these blogs whenever an issue of Japan’s history pops up.
Are you ignoring the fact that some Irish people burned the effigy of the Queen when she visited? Also is not Sinn Fein still popular in Ireland and Northern Ireland? Don’t you still have republicans occasionally attack policemen in Northenr Ireland? Anglophobia is still very much alive in Ireland so lets not pretend all is well.
Hitokiri1989, what is Wapanese? Is it a racial slur or something?
Will you please propose a former Korean prostitute who, you think, was most likely kidnapped by Japanese military? You can be one of the sufferers of their lies.
There were protests, but they were mild in comparison to what is going on in Belfast right now (or indeed, 30 years ago): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/8519697/Queens-visit-to-Ireland-prompts-violent-clashes.html
Recent events in Belfast do not suggest reconciliation, but ’twas ever thus.
Sinn Fein still exists North and South, but it’s bigger in the North. If Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael hadn’t screwed up everything, it would be a lot smaller in the South. There have been recent murderous attacks on British troops at Massereene, and bombings in Derry. I know that most Irish people regard the English as a shower of c__ts, but that State Visit is a lot more than Korea and Japan have. The Irish state, broke as it is, wants peace and trade with the UK. Dublin has renounced territorial claims to the North, and people like Charlie Haughey are no longer funding the IRA. People like McGuinness and his talk of ‘West Brits’ are on the way out. The South Korean government’s position toward Japan is a lot more ambiguous.
>there is no Freedom of Information Act in Japan
Now, everything he writes smells fishy. Japan has “Act on Access to Information Held by Administrative Organs” (行政機関の保有する情報の公開に関する法律) which is the equivarent of Freedom of Information Act.
I have come across with a Japanese homepage which described Koreans saying that Korea would never demand compensation nor bring the comfort women issue to diplomatic agenda if Japan (or Kono statement) admitted presence of coercion in recruitment of comfort women:
そこで韓国側は、補償もいらないし、慰安婦問題を今後は外交問題にしないから、ともかく強制連行があったということを認めてほしいと日本側に求めてきた。結局、韓国側の要求を日本側は受け入れた。
(Google translation)
그래서 한국 측은 보상도 필요없고, 위안부 문제를 향후 외교 문제로하지 않기 때문에, 어쨌든 강제 연행이 있었다는 것을 인정달라고 일본 측에 요구 해왔다. 결국 한국 측의 요구를 일본 측 받아 들였다.
The homepage is: http://www.seisaku-center.net/modules/wordpress/index.php?p=78
Who are the Koreans who are saying this? Who do they represent?
President KYS and his men.
http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/international/2012/12/16/0602000000AKR20121216030600043.HTML
Well, then per what was said by KYS and his administration, Korea has every right to raise an official diplomatic fuss if Japan denied that women were coerced and/or the Kono statement was to be rolled back, which many in the Abe administration wants.
The Dutch and Australian governments are not demanding an apology from Japan. Singapore recently rejected South Korean nationalists’ attempt to build the comfort women statue in their country. As I said before, most countries have move on from the past and have friendly relationships with Japan. To keep bringing up the past war that present generations have abjured is to poison the ground for fruitful cooperation. It’s truly pathetic to see the lengths to which the Koreans are willing to go with this issue. The fact that Koreans don’t really care about “Korean War comfort women” proves that this issue is not even about “human rights” or “remembering the victims” or any of that.
Genie,
You forgot the biggest country: China. Now, why did you forget the biggest country in the damn world? Does their position bother you so you decided to ignore the gigantic country that is known as China?
Well, there is this HUGE country known as China. I think you kind of forgot about them. You know China right? I heard a rumor that they are even the most populous country in the world.
The Kono statement was the limit to which Japan could refer the problem. Many people understand it to mean that Japanese government admitted kidnapping of comfort women without reading it well. As I said many times before, the statement did not admit anything like that. I thought, from your impressions of his statement, that you understood the Kono statement.
Okay, let me make this simpler for you. If the Kono Statement is to be rescinded, then does not the Korean government not have a reason to be upset/disturbed?
Although I don’t know much about Korea, the statement may not be needed for the rightist government. As for 2MB, he has long been absorbed with 4-River, Yongsan and other big projects of his profession, and he did not come up with the issues until he was reminded by Constitutional Court. Trouble was the three north sympathizer presidents of KYS, KDJ and RMH.
The thirty years of military presidents before them knew too well about comfort women and had no thought that comfort women could be a problem. The next president is certainly a rightist, but she is surely a new type of president. It is rather pity and sorry to have a maiden president discussing such issues.
I hope you have read The Japanese Government Creates a Comfort Women System for the Occupation Forces.
There could be no problem only if you can persuade your people that Prof. An Byeong-jik was right.
There could be no problem if you can persuade your people that Prof. An Byeong-jik was right.
“Korean Council for the Women Drafted for Military Sexual Slavery”
http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/singapore-rejects-comfort-women-statue-1.1461170#.UQsvqB12yw0
Oh, my. They are still using the word “Drafted”, even after it is proven that there was no draft for comfort women in Korea. They are the group who prevented compensation payment from the Japanese government to the former comfort women in Korea though Japanese government funded Asia Women’s Fund. They have no interest in solving this issue. Rather, their interest is to prolong this issue forever.
Currently I am staying in Germany. I have many close Japanese friends including my best friend of more than 20 odd years.
There are “not so many young people who become neo-Nazi” in Germany, unlike what you think in Japan and Korea. The main difference is that neo-Nazi is treated like a bunch of inconsequential sub-level criminal gang members and dredge of social underclass by Germany and the Germans whereas most of my very nice Japanese friends would probably have grown up with the prejudice and anti Korean and anti-Zainichi feelings perpetuated by the mainstream society and the government, with a big hole in their memory brought on by controlled amnesia, let alone atonement or a hard look at their own recent history.
You must log in to post a comment.