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Enter The Young Dragons

dragonAs mentioned in the Joongang Ilbo, a group of 1,000 core members of the Communist Youth League are coming to visit South Korea this next year.  What I also find interesting is the recent Bloomberg article on the latest generation of hyper-rich oligarchs’ children, descended from Mao’s generals, who comprise the majority of these young “princelings”. Out of the current new line-up of the Chinese Communist Party’s Politburo, announced to the public on Nov. 15, five of the seven are princelings  To quote Cory Doctorow,

“Wealth in China is even more concentrated than Russia, Brazil or the USA, and the Chinese looter-class use complex screens that take advantage of different ways of representing their names in English, Cantonese and Mandarin to obscure the ownership of former state assets, flogged at pennies on the dollar in sweetheart deals for the hyper-privileged. The Princelings are western-educated, mostly in the USA, and flaunt expensive luxury-brand accessories on their social media profiles.”

The interactive graphic in the Bloomberg article also demonstrates the often interwoven relationships between the families of the “eight immortals” (original generals of Mao).  The connections therein make marriages between Korean chaebol look minute in comparison.

Unlike the “princeling” contingent, the Communist Youth League or ‘tuanpai’ on the other hand are groomed as potential leaders in the Chinese Communist Youth League and focus on the lesser privileged, are more populist in character and have served in China’s hinterland. Their main concerns are the farmers, migrant labourers, and the urban poor. (cite)Generally, they are often described as being reformed-minded and mentioned in comparison to the status-quo that the princeling contingent represent.

As time passes and further resentment of the privileged princelings accrues, the role of the tuanpai in regional affairs will likely be influential even here in Korea, thus good relations with the younger members is a good thing for Korea (?).

About the author: Psst, want to buy some used marble cheap?

  • http://twitter.com/BROMOTORBOAT Kevin Landry

    they certainly are the furthest thing from communists from what I think communism is supposed to be all about.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Why are they letting these punks in? 

  • http://www.gofundme.com/1k98a8 Jakgani

     youth league is responsible for spreading communist ideology to young people and training them to become core members to lead the party’s next generation. 

    Communism is illegal in Korea – so why are they letting these princelings in to teach to Koreas youth?

    In communism – wealth is supposed to be shared equally amongst all the people…  we know that is not the case in China.

  • ecw73

    Incidentally, the US Constitution’s provision for an Electoral College was originally intended to be a selection process not unlike the current Chinese selection process for its leadership. Electors were to be selected, not by popular vote, but by the State legislatures. Electors were to be unbound by their respective States so that the College could function in a Collegial manner in the selection of a President.

    George Washington warned against the formation of political parties as being a mortal danger to the Republic.

    All of this was violated so early in the history of the US that there is justification for seeing the US as having been a Constitutional government for only the first decade or so of its existence.

    Depending on one’s views on this sort of thing, China’s leadership arguably may be more legitimate than that of the US.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     Newsflash, NO leadership anywhere in the world is legitimate.

  • gafafweaefwa955929592

    lortehoved

  • http://www.gofundme.com/1k98a8 Jakgani

    Washington also urged the American people to preserve the national credit by avoiding war, avoiding unnecessary borrowing, and paying off any national debt accumulated in times of war as quickly as possible in times of peace so that future generations do not have to take on the financial burdens that others have taken on themselves. 

  • YangachiBastardo

    It’s called realpolitik:  nobody can ignore their largest trading partner/neighbour/soon-to-be-largest-economy in the world

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     If we all ignored them we could crash their economy. And we should.

  • Silver Surfer

     If we ignore our own looter class, they’ll crash our economy. Just like they did once already.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    It’s called realpolitik:  nobody can ignore their largest trading partner/neighbour/soon-to-be-largest-economy in the world

    When is “soon” that it will be the largest economy in the world?

  • YangachiBastardo

    Between 2020/2025 and the per capita GDP will converge too not much later: China will never be as rich as the West at its peak. It will look more like a high middle income country, but the former wealthy Western nations will be pretty much at the same level. I believe things will improve overtime:, there are a series of tehcnological possibilities tha are very promising in many fields and could lift the whole world out of the Dark Ages, without destroying the planet in the process.

    I’m a short-term pessimist and a long term optimist 

  • YangachiBastardo

    Yes China could have/should have been ignored long time ago. The technology transfer that happened since the 1980′s from the West and the rest of Asia were at best the dumbest thing ever, at worst a criminal act.

    Talking about giving away the family jewels for a plate of lentils.

    Is it too late now ? Well China doesn’t rely on export, particularly exports to the West, as much as they used to and their domestic consumption story is  up and running. Still China has a non-convertible currency and desperately need natural resources.

    Will the world stop feeding their growth ? I doubt it, they all, pardon we all have greed in our eyes. Look at what recently happened in Canada with Nexen. Look for all the shale tech to be transferred en masse there within 5 years

    PS

    All i did in the past month was arranging manufacturing licensing agreeements around the world for our products, as the Korean top brass at my company wanna absolutely sell to China and other EM markets

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    China will rip itself apart before it even becomes a developed nation. Huge wealth disparity between classes and regions, immense corruption, staggering environmental problems, problems with ethnic minorities hating the Han, and other issues have me skeptical and quite frankly hoping the whole place explodes with strife. But even before any of that takes effect, China’s aggressive foreign policy will see it embroiled in wars it cannot win. Its a cesspool of a country and we will all be treated to seeing it sink back to the backwards craphole it has always been.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     Spot on, and quite frankly, although hindsight is 20/20 this one should have been an easy call: a communist country with a billion people and a history of expansionism and regional domination. That it was not ignored and shunned, that it was not treated as the pariah it is (and it has always been), that it was accepted into the world community, and at the price of shunning TAIWAN, was a crime of the highest magnitude. But China is a country riddled with problems and these will drag it down. If we come to China’s aide when it is sinking it will be the ultimate proof of our stupidity.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Between 2020/2025 and the per capita GDP will converge too not much later

    No shot and NO SHOT.  

    China’s GDP right now is a bit less than half the U.S.’s.  For mathematics in my head simplicity, let’s assume an even half.  That means for China’s GDP by 2023 to reach the current level of the U.S.’s that China’s economy would have to grow at a continuously compounded 7% rate.  If you think 7% is doable, remember that in the last years as China’s economy approaches the U.S. economy’s size, it still must continue to grow at that rate.  Ridiculous.  Even more so is the unstated assumption that the U.S.’s economy grows at 0% for that same period.  If the U.S.’s economy grows at a modest 1.5% per year, China’s would have to grow at over 10%.  The numbers for per capita GDP make the “will converge too not much later” part even more ridiculous.  China’s per capita GDP is less than 1/8 that of the U.S.

    I agree with Salman on factors that work against China’s middle term prospects for such sustained growth.  China is a powder keg.  Its business culture is rife with fraud and corruption.  I’m waiting for a nation wide Enron type scandal to rock that country.  

    Another hugely ignored difference between the U.S. and China is its regionalism.  The U.S. has more ethnicities than any other country, but within a generation of immigration we see ourselves as “American”.  From the goat houses of Show Me to the penthouses (OK, sixth floor walk ups) of NYC, we’re Americans.  China has 38 nationalities.  How many see themselves as “Chinese”?

    Two words:  Ti Bet.  The U.S. has no breakaway, yahoo states that see themselves as a separate country or different people or want to be.  Tibet is a whole region bigger than  Spain and France combined.  Just mention at Chinese customs that you plan to go to Tibet  and they’ll bounce you out of there on the next flight.

    Throw in China’s one child policy, which has so many social implications that you must wonder what drunken ajosshi whispered that in their ears.  One child policy means that the  population will halve in the next generation or so.  Smaller population –> lower GDP.  It gets worse.  One child means aging population with twice as many older for younger.  Once child means no brothers and sisters.  Duh, you say? Well it also means no aunts or uncles, which then means no cousins. I learned how to be an uncle from my uncles.  I have an unspoken covenant with my brothers and sisters that they know I would take care of their kids if something happened.  

    Did they think about the unintended consequences of one child?  As it turns out, Chinese have a preference for boys.  An imbalance of boys for girls means that when those horny young men reach their physical prime and the older generation is feeble, those horny young men are going to do what horny young men do when they don’t have women and families.  Think wild wild west but in the east and on a nationwide scale.

    You don’t need to have spent much time at Langley to bang this out at your kitchen table on a Saturday night.

  • YangachiBastardo

    I don’t disagree with China being to a certain degree a powder keg but you seem to confuse  the nominal and the real growth: real GDP growth is discounted by the deflator, on top of that it is expressed in dollars (nominal or PPP), so if you factor in real growth, inflation and a moderate rate of Yuan appreciation, a 7% probably translates into a 11-12% nominal dollar growth.

    A nominal $ rate like that is enough for China to overtake the US within a decade, the Economist had a simulator about this not long ago (sorry too lazy to link). I’m not saying we can safely project the past into the future (i’m not that dumb), i’m saying that IF (and that’s a big if) China growth rate keeps hovering around a real 7%, with moderate inflation and a steady appreciation of the Yuan within a decade the top spot is achievable.When China was growing at a “real” (notice the quotation marks) rate of 10%, their economy was increasing at 16%+ dollar nominal rate, just look at the table with their absolute $$ GDP progression.

    I respectfully disagree about the perils of a one child policy and the marvels of a high birth rate, if that was the case the Maghreb would be the most booming economy in the world, which is not.

    I also disagree about the lack of ethnic strife in America, which i consider on par, if not worse, than China’s, particularly when many minority interests appear to have been bought out by an increasing and unsustainable welfarism.

  • YangachiBastardo

    About the per capita convergence i’m fairly convinced we will experience in the West a negative trajectory, either through deflation (current Southern Europe scenario) or robust inflation with a massive currency realignment (i’m still super bearish toward the dollar and the Euro, even if as i said part of the Eurozone is now involved in a massive re-alignment of their cost basis, it is cheaper to manufacture in Italy than Korea for instance).

    Again take a look at the time series: what was the nominal per capita GDP of the US comparing to Korea, Italy, Japan, Australia, Israel, Bulgaria, Russia etc. in 2000 and what is it now ? Notice i included in the example very different economies, with very different models of development and very different growth outcomes. Still the dollar appear to have been debased, the uro rode high on an unsustainable bubble that is now exploding, even with if it is happening with many contradictions. 

    You gotta think of currencies as cars running on a highway: they all rush in the same direction to eventual oblivion through inflation, some are doing it faster than others, so you have exchange rate fluctuations.

    I believe Western currencies are still gassing full speed toward a substantial trounce in their relative value.

    That’s why after 2 difficult years for emerging market assets i’m not definitely bullish on Asian currencies

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Yangchi, I disagree with you on so many statements that I don’t know where to begin. 

    you seem to confuse  the nominal and the real growth: real GDP growth is discounted by the deflator, on top of that it is expressed in dollars (nominal or PPP), so if you factor in real growth, inflation and a moderate rate of Yuan appreciation, a 7% probably translates into a 11-12% nominal dollar growth.

    I used nominal GDP and current dollars.  No need for an adjustment for inflation in talking about the 2012 numbers.  As far as deflating the future, that actually works against you.  The U.S. has very low inflation, China does not.  If you want to deflate those nominal numbers, I’m good with that.  With nominal rates, China would need a 10%+ growth rate to overtake the U.S. with a 1.5% growth rate.  

    BTW, I did not extol the virtues of a high birth rate.  I only commented on its implications for economic growth.  Larger populations are correlated with higher GDPs.  For example, CHINA.  China is an economic force because of its sheer size.  Per capita, China is third world.  At the other end of the spectrum, Luxembourg and Monaco are hardly superpowers despite their huge per capita GDPs. 

    As far as China’s birthrate’s effect on its economic superpower status, halve the birthrate (c.p.) and you halve the labor force.  If you have ever wondered about Korea’s concern with its less than sustaining birthrate despite Korea’s (what I perceive as overpopulation and crowdedness), its the problem of shrinking GDP and aging workforce.

    I also disagree about the lack of ethnic strife in America, which i consider on par, if not worse, than China’s,…

    Wow.  Post again when Texas monks self-immolate daily or even once.

  • Cm

     I believe you’re right.  Many western nations could find themselves a lot poorer virtually overnight, if their currencies devalue overnight.  This is certainly a possibility with some kind of a massive financial crisis shock effect with the debts imploding.  Or it could happen when Western governments race to devalue their currencies to inflate themselves out of the debt crisis. I think the possibility of wealth being concentrated in East Asia, with Asia on top, while Western nations suddenly find themselves a lot poorer than East Asia.

  • Robert Neff

    Nice posting

  • YangachiBastardo

    Look at this: http://www.data360.org/dataset.aspx?Data_Set_Id=352

    American nominal GDP in 1997 was a bit more than 8 tril.  it was around 15 tril in 2011. In the meantime the country went through 1 financial crisis, and 3 massive bubbles (dotcom, housing and the current explosion of national debt). Still in those 14 years American economy didn’t manage to double their nominal output.

    At the end of 2011 China GDP was approx. 7 tril. If we compund this money with a 11% nominal $ growth rate in 2025 China GDP will be past the 30 tril. threshold, feel free to confirm or not my calculations. 

    Notice this forecast includes a substantial slowdown in growth from the values recorded in the past 14 years:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_GDP_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China

    As you can see in the 1997-2011 timespan Chinese output grew in dollar terms more than sevenfold, while i’m forecasting a fourfold appreciation.

    Hey as i said i’m not sure this is gonna happen, i’m just saying it is mathematically possible, even likely.
    By the way a high rate of inflation, if balanced with an even higher rate of productivty growth, could be theoretically coeherent with a currency appreciation scenario, hence helping instead of damaging the process of GDP catch-up. 

     Wow.  Post again when Texas monks self-immolate daily or even once

    I could answer facetiously saying that in the ghettos of America much worse routinely happens…on a serious note let’s see what is gonna happen when Government spending will have to be reined in, prepare for Banlieu type of riots…with assault rifles

  • Anonymous_Joe

    At the end of 2011 China GDP was approx. 7 tril. If we compund this money with a 11% nominal $ growth rate in 2025 China GDP will be past the 30 tril. threshold, feel free to confirm or not my calculations.

    I’m going to stop right at that statement.  I don’t need to confirm calculations, I need to know the color of the sky in that world.  For China to go from $7 trillion to $30 trillion in 12 years requires a reality check.

  • Cm

    China’s development means ruin for earth’s ecology.  Read the story of how Chinese fishing boats are sweeping clean the earth’s seas of life.  According to Wall Street Journal, China is going to increase the size of their fishing fleets even further.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324669104578205041179985354.html
     

  • Anonymous_Joe

    I believe you’re right.  Many western nations could find themselves a lot poorer virtually overnight, if their currencies devalue overnight.

    Why do you think that, Cm?  Sure, everyone just accepts that as common knowledge, but can you explain it to me, just for giggles and grins?

  • YangachiBastardo

     As far as China’s birthrate’s effect on its economic superpower status, halve the birthrate (c.p.) and you halve the labor force

    Triple the productivity, which at the current Chinese level of development is more than possible, and you more than solve the problem…China GDP was less than a trillion in 1997, it was 7,2 tr. at the end of 2011. 

    Also check the series for any large European economy in the 1961-1980 era, which included both years of high growth/low inflation and years of low growth&high inflation. You may be shocked by the catch-up process

  • Cm

    Japan has already started to devalue their currency, which is triggering worries that the world will be in a currency war soon.  Even if the west doesn’t devalue their currencies, China, Korea, and Asia in general could see their money appreciate drastically.  Take China for instance, your GDP trend calculations are based on the current value of Chinese currency. But we all agree, China deliberately undervalue their currency by as much as 40% (read link below). If China stops the manipulation, theoretically, China’s economy should really be almost twice as big as it is today.  The Chinese manipulation could any time, thus, theoretically, China’s economy could double, thus will also double their per capita income, virtually overnight if their currency is allowed to rise to their real value.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47413024/Morici_Chinarsquos_Yuan_Remains_Hugely_Undervalued_Dragging_Down_US_Growth 

  • Charliemarlow2004

    With regard to the original post, I believe  the Communist Youth League is one group – young people who have worked in the hinterlands – the the princelings are another group. The CYL is probably more dangerous because they are do-gooders and will be a humanitarian face for the humanitarian mess that China is.

  • Cm

    China also has another advantage. They don’t have to pay their workers anything.

    Letter from Chinese forced labor camp, found in K-Mart toy bought by Oregon woman.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toy-box-letter-china-labor-camp-article-1.1228302
     

  • RElgin

    That distinction was clearly made in the thread, already. They are both probably going to screw the country into the ground.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    Chinese know full well that if they let their currency appreciate at that rate they are in no position to compete in the higher value added stuff. The fact is if they want to do that they have to change, being a successful low cost producer isn’t going to cut it. They cannot change that quickly and their political agenda of the CCP interferes with some of the changes. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    Yeah, but you have an increasing elderly population being supported by shrinking working population. This plus trying to expand welfare provisions and you got a lot of pressure being put on the working population financially. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    Maybe he was calculating it by adding inflation to the mix. 

    Frankly I take projections of GDP with a grain of salt especially if they are projections that go more than a decade into the future.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    If the CCP evolves as in is willing to reform itself such as give up its monopoly of power and give people a voice in the political process so that they don’t get shafted by corrupt officials then maybe the problem will lessen. Unfortunately for fundamental reforms it is going to require a kick in the groin as in a major crisis. 

    As to ethnic tensions Han make up 90%+ of the population so if there are ethnic disturbances it is likely to be localized. Also if you look at the areas that have been traditionally nonhan areas they are pretty much flooded with Han chinese by the deliberate policy of the CCP. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    They are not really communists. You know “socialism with chinese characteristics”. Just like North Korea is not communist but juche a perverse mix of communism and monarchism. 

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Triple the productivity, which at the current Chinese level of development is more than possible, and you more than solve the problem…

    Sure, just magically triple the productivity (actually, if they halve the population, then they would have to quadruple their productivity.  If we’re going to make stuff up, let’s make up numbers that jibe.

    China GDP was less than a trillion in 1997, it was 7,2 tr. at the end of 2011.

    Those are nominal numbers, but that problem aside, the “less than a trillion in 1997″ means that per capita GDP was about $800 in 1997.  How do you think that magic increase was accomplished?

    The real, huge problem here is that you’re doing linear projections.  As Einstein revealed in a way that I’ll argue analogously, the more massive something is the more it takes to accelerate it.  

  • YangachiBastardo

     Sure, just magically triple the productivity (actually, if they halve the population, then they would have to quadruple their productivity.  If we’re going to make stuff up, let’s make up numbers that jibe.

    Joe actually i stand by my numbers: if you have 100 workers that produce 10 $ each, you have a total output of 1000 $.

    If you halve your workforce (50 people) but each of ‘em triple their output (30 $), you end up with a total production of 1500 $, hence improving from your starting point even with a 50% smaller pool of workers. If you halve  the number of people they simply have to produce twice to keep the level of output constant, don’t worry i also get confused like that pretty easily :) 

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Joe actually i stand by my numbers: if you have 100 workers that produce 10 $ each, you have a total output of 1000 $.

    OK, Yangchi.  I understand.  I thought we were talking about doubling China’s GDP while halving the workforce.  

  • Koreandumbdumb

    Enter the young hostages.  Just lock them up in a secret KCIA prison and demand China to open up North Korea and open up China to Google. Kill one princepig a day till Chinks comply.

  • Koreandumbdumb

    Only a small payback for dirty pigs who entered Korea without  permission and prevented Korean Unification (Are you listening Jolla Commies?).   Dirty and ugly s***heads.

  • wangkon936

    “Kyerim and Taifang Commander… errrr, I mean South Korea!  Come back into the loving arms of thy older brother!”

  • wangkon936

    SMS,

    Korea lets in almost 4M Chinese tourists a year.  What’s 1K more?

  • YangachiBastardo

    Korea= the new Finland ?

  • wangkon936

    The only legitimate government is one that protects the wealth and property generated by its citizens and does not needlessly fleece its flock.  So, pretty much every government is illegitimate.

  • wangkon936

    AJ,

    In order for China’s per capita GDP to be close to the U.S.’s it will have to be a liberal federal democracy.  Why?  Because people generally don’t work to generate that much wealth unless they have a chance to do it for themselves and work in an environment where their rights and wealth are protected over the rights of a powerful elite who want to tax or steal or regulate to death reappropriate wealth to themselves away from everyone else.

    Of course, when you make China a federal democracy, you run the risk of splintering it.  However, in my mind China should be several countries and not just one, just like how Europe is split into several countries speaking several Indo-European languages such as Germanic (German, Dutch and English), Romance (French, Spanish and Italian) and Slavic languages (Russian, Polish, Czech).  China should be a group of countries centered on the several Sino-Tibetan languages it has spoken for several millenium such as Mandarin in the north, Cantonese in the south and Min/Wu/Hakka in the south and center.

    If China was several countries instead of just one great big giant country, then at the very least, it would be a lot less arrogant.

  • wangkon936

    Nah, the dollars and Euros you have hidden under your mattress are safe for the foreseeable future.  The Chinese RMB is not really ready for reserve currency prime time because China itself is like Korea was in the 70′s and 80′s.  All it’s got going for it right now is that it’s got a lot of people who work hard, but you can’t rely on that trick for long.  Ask Korea in 1997 and Japan in 1989.

    And the yen?  Please.  Abe has already promised to print like a mad man.  Currency valuation is like grading on a curve, especially since the world went to a float by ditching the gold standard 40 years ago.  If every kid in class is an idiot, it’s the least idiotic kid who will end up with the “A”.  America, Germany and England… the least idiotic kids in the classroom!

  • YangachiBastardo

    wk: Western countries elite tax, regulate and steal way more than supposedly communist China, where taxes are low, bureaucracy seems reasonable and bribing flows rampant as it does pretty much everywhere else.

    Only real difference is the West restrain from adopting prison camps, an excessive liberal use of the death penalty and internet censorship…all things i can live with in exchange of gutting my tax rate to less than 10% a year and doing away with the E.U. CE regulations

    PS

    I’m being half-facetious  

  • YangachiBastardo

     America, Germany and England… the least idiotic kids in the classroom!

    We probably disagree on this but i think the best way to play the China growth is to short Germany (except i hate shorting and i don’t really know how to manage it). IMHO they’re the next victim of China moving up their added value ladder.

    With all the talking about their booming business in China, 60% of German exports still go to the EU and 6% to the Dragon and those guys are entering the capital goods arena, where Japanese/German manufacturers still dominate and where Chinese firms are eating up market share fast (http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/11/29/asia-machinery-exports-to-rise-as-plants-boost-added-value-production/#axzz2GU0RXVOW). I expect the Bosch and Siemens of this world to become the next Chrysler/GM/Nokia.

    I was in Munich last September and they told me the Chinese are scooping u mittelstands like crazy, a massive reverse-engineering fuckfest is on its way me thinks

    Incidentally, they say pretty much the same things here:

    http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-12-19/commentary/35896064_1_germany-exports-german-exports-export-powerhouse

    Now taking MW drivel seriously requires a bit of an effort, i know 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    I guess in that case it boils down to who is more legitimate or less illegitimate. 

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     I was gonna write exactly that until I read your sentence. There has NEVER been a government that does not fleece, rob, extort and enslave its subjects.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     Until I read your *second* sentence.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     But since no government is legitimate BEYOND legitimacy-through-power (like a mafia), how can yhou say one Zero is larger (more legitimate) than another ZERO?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KFMIOLXZTCWEEJ3GF3YIAZIJ4 mightymouse

    Huh? If there are competing governments and one has more power than the other then it must follow it is more legitimate than the other. 

  • fe62555555sfe

    well said

  • SalarymaninSeoul

     It does not follow at all. Legitimacy is not established with the barrel of a gun. All that follows is that one gang is more powerful than the other. But both are raping, pillaging, murdering and extorting predators.

  • imememememe

    why are they letting *ANY* chinese in?

  • ig5959292ee

     oh come on now.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    “the Chinese looter-class use complex screens that take advantage of
    different ways of representing their names in English, Cantonese and
    Mandarin to obscure the ownership of former state assets”

    I used to work for Immigration in Canada.  I can vouch for that comment because I’ve witnessed such cases. 

  • Koreandumbdumb

    I would not hold any RMB or yen.  The China-Japan war can start any day now.   One gun shot at Senkaku and WWIII will start.