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PSY Apologizes

Bobby McGill’s piece at Busan Haps is seriously blowing up.

Washington Post, Gawker, Drudge… it’s all over.

It’s even got political, with calls for the cancellation of a planned performance by PSY for US President Obama.

PSY will be performing for the president anyway, but he did make an apology:

“As a proud South Korean who was educated in the United States and lived there for a very significant part of my life, I understand the sacrifices American servicemen and women have made to protect freedom and democracy in my country and around the world. The song I was featured in — from eight years ago — was part of a deeply emotional reaction to the war in Iraq and the killing of two innocent Korean civilians that was part of the overall antiwar sentiment shared by others around the world at that time,” the statement read. “While I’m grateful for the freedom to express one’s self I’ve learned there are limits to what language is appropriate and I’m deeply sorry for how these lyrics could be interpreted. I will forever be sorry for any pain I have caused anyone by those words.”

“I have been honored to perform in front of American soldiers in recent months — including an appearance on the Jay Leno show specifically for them — and I hope they and all Americans can accept my apology,” the statement concluded. “While it’s important we express our opinions, I deeply regret the inflammatory and inappropriate language I used to do so. In my music I try to give people a release, a reason to smile. I have learned that though music, our universal language we can all come together as a culture of humanity and I hope that you will accept my apology.”

Marmot’s Notes

- I’m guessing PSY had the apology on standby, since this story has been out there since October. It’s amazing it took so long to catch fire.

- If anything, the translation of the lyrics went easy on PSY. As MTV pointed out, “a Korean employee for MTV News, for instance, pointed out that Psy actually rapped ‘bitches’ instead of ‘Yankees.’” Which is about right, although perhaps a better translation would be “Western bitches.” The term that really got me, though, is kojaengi, or “big noser,” a term of racial abuse directed at white people. Back in October, when word of this first surfaced, Myongji University professor Kang Gyu-hyeong (writing into a conservative news outlet, admittedly) was horrified, calling the line “딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두 죽여” not only anti-American, but anti-human.

- Time heals, and five years of late President Roh Moo-hyun providing you great blogging material day in and day out heals a lot, so I’m a lot less angry about 2002 than I used to be. Anyway, a lot of stupid shit got said in 2002, much of it by people who should have known a lot better than PSY. Sure, given what was said and his current prominence, an explanation was in order. And he gave one. In fact, the apology he gave went way beyond anything I was expecting, even mentioning the “sacrifices American servicemen and women have made to protect freedom and democracy in my country and around the world.” Not to sound like a raving lefty loon, but given that the US did back a series of (admittedly, quite competent) military dictators in South Korea between 1961 and 1987, he didn’t have to put it that way.

- As for President Obama attending the PSY performance, I can understand why some might ask questions. Frankly, though, given how the president sat in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years, I don’t really think a couple of stupid things PSY sang in the heat of the moment in 2002 should be a deal breaker. Anyway, compared to Wright and Bill Ayers, PSY is virtually Captain America.

- See also Iheartblueballs and Sonagi’s comments in the discussion here.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • Ryan

    For what it’s worth, at least insofar as I understand it, the lyrics were from another artist’s song. Much of the commentary I’ve read overlooks that.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Good point.

  • http://www.globalasianculture.com Liz

    This apology isn’t going to cut it for America.

    Sorry to see PSY so quickly disgraced.

    It was fun while it lasted.

  • que337

    Sorry to post this here, but let’s take a brief moment to remember those who died at Pearl Harbor 71 years ago today (December 7, 1941):

    We’re Gonna Have To Slap, The Dirty Little Jap, And Uncle Sam’s the Guy who can do it

    Performed by Lucky Millinder
    Recorded February 18, 1942
    Words and Music by Bob Miller

    We’re gonna have to slap the dirty little Jap
    And Uncle Sam’s the guy who can do it
    We’ll skin the streak of yellow from this sneaky little fellow
    And he’ll think a cyclone hit him when he’s thru it
    We’ll take the double crosser to the old woodshed
    We’ll start on his bottom and go to his head
    When we get thru with him he’ll wish that he was dead
    We gotta slap the dirty little Jap

    We’re gonna have to slap the dirty little Jap
    And Uncle Sam’s the guy who can do it
    The Japs and all their hooey will be changed into chop suey
    And the rising sun will set when we get thru it
    Their alibi for fighting is to save their face
    For ancestors waiting in celestial space
    We’ll kick their precious face down to the other place
    We gotta slap the dirty little Jap

    We’re gonna have to slap the dirty little Jap
    And Uncle Sam’s the guy who can do it
    We’ll murder Hirohito, massacre that slob Benito
    Hang’em with that Shickle gruber when we’re thru it
    We’ll search the highest mountain for the tallest tree
    To build us a hanging post for the evil three
    We’ll call in all our neighbors, let’em know their free
    We gotta slap the dirty little Jap

    Recording could be listened to at the following link: http://www.authentichistory.com/1939-1945/3-music/04-PH-Reaction/19420218_Were_Gonna_Have_To_Slap_The_Dirty_Little_Jap-Lucky_Millinder.html

  • Bballi

    So let me get this correct, you are equating a 1942 USA with 2002 Korea. Ok got it, Korea is roughly 60 years behind the times. Thanks

  • gbnhj

    Dear PSY,

    I’ve lived in Korea for seventeen years – far longer, as you know, than you ever lived in the United States. But even as you feel that your period of residence gives you license to understand the feeling of Americans with respect to your actions, I am sure that you must know that there are many times when Koreans say that I, as a non-Korean, cannot truly understand how they feel, despite all those years of experience.

    Therefore, I hope you see what I mean when I tell you that you are wrong – you do not seem to have understood how Americans feel at all. As a people, for example, we know that criminality happens, but we do not champion the actions of torturers when we discover their crime. Nor do we cheer for mass slaughter of innocent persons, as you and many Koreans once did, merely because they maintain a family relationship to a torturer. I hope that’s really clear to you now, in case it wasn’t back then.

    You claim that you’re sorry, but as they saying goes, it appears you’re only sorry you got caught. To be sure, there’s probably no real method for rectification for what you did except, perhaps, for apology. Yet why have you not apologized until now? You’ve had many years in which to come to terms with what you said and did. Doing so only now appears self-serving, don’t you agree? Will you still feel sorry after this issue falls from the interest in the media? How will you demonstrate that to everyone?

    I hope you take this to heart because, as the years go by and I get older, I become less tolerant of bullshit. If fate and God provide, I will have many more years left, and I look forward to seeing the expression of your newfound contrition in the years to come.

    Sincerely,
    gbnhj

  • keyinjpop

    Gotta love nationalism.

  • que337

    I believe, in 1941 USA, whole nation was united in “anti-Jap”. 2002 Korean society had many social streams and one of them was anti-war and anti-torture movement. Anyway, here is another one to remember Pearl Harbor today:

    You’re a Sap, Mister Jap

    Performed by Carl Hoff;
    Vocals by The Murphy Sisters
    Recorded December 23, 1941
    Written by James Cavanaugh, John Redmond, and Nat Simon

    (With spirit):
    You started with your shooting
    On the seventh of December,
    But let me tell you now:
    It’s a day you’ll remember!

    [chorus 1]
    You’re a sap, Mister Jap, you make a Yankee cranky.
    You’re a sap, Mister Jap Uncle Sam is gonna spanky.
    Wait and see, before we’re done
    The A B C and D* will sink your “rising sun.”

    You’re a sap, Mister Jap, You don’t know Uncle Sammy.
    When he fights for his rights
    You’ll take it on the lamee
    For he’ll wipe the axis right off the map.
    You’re a sap, sap, sap, Mister Jap

    [chorus 2]
    You’re a sap, Mister Jap, you make a Yankee cranky.
    You’re a sap, Mister Jap Uncle Sam is gonna spanky.
    Wait and see, before we’re done
    The A B C and D* will sink your “rising sun.”
    Oh! what a load to carry.
    Don’t you know, don’t you know, you’re committing Hari-Kari?
    For we’ll wipe the Axis right off the map
    You’re a sap, sap, sap, Mister Jap

    *The “ABCD Powers” were the nations Japan saw as a threat in the Pacific: America, Britain, China and the Dutch.

    The recording could be listened to here: http://www.authentichistory.com/1939-1945/3-music/04-PH-Reaction/19411223_Youre_A_Sap_Mr_Jap-Carl_Hoff-Murphy_Sisters.html

  • pawikirogii

    dont speak for me as an american. we forgave ‘black korea’. we can forgive psy.

  • que337

    I know, I know, I know.

    Don’t Bite The Hand That’s Feeding You

    Performed by Gene Autry
    Recorded July 30, 1941
    Words by Thomas Hoier, Music by Jimmie Morgan

    [chorus]
    “If you don’t like your Uncle Sammy,
    Then go back to your home o’er the sea,
    To the land from where you came,
    Whatever be its name;
    but don’t be ungrateful to me!
    If you don’t like the stars in Old Glory,
    If you don’t like the Red, White and Blue,
    Then don’t act like the cur in the story,
    Don’t bite the hand that’s feeding you.”

    Last night, as I lay a sleeping,
    A wonderful dream came to me,
    I saw Uncle Sammy weeping
    For his children from over the sea;
    They had come to him, friendless and starving,
    He took them into the fold
    So, when in trouble, he needs you,
    You have to remember your oath:

    [repeat chorus]

    [lyrics transcribed from the 1915 sheet music and rearranged for this recording]

    Recording: http://www.authentichistory.com/1939-1945/3-music/01-Nationalism/19410730_Dont_Bite_The_Hand_Thats_Feeding_You-Gene_Autry.html

  • gbnhj

    Sorry to upset you, Pawi. As you can see above, I only wrote about Americans in general when I said that, as a group, we do not champion the actions of torturers upon the discovery of their crime, nor do we collectively cheer for a call to mass slaughter of persons innocent of that torture. I believe that’s true. Of course, on a personal level, you or others may feel otherwise.

  • pawikirogii

    yeah we forgave black korea. we forgace the docs at unit 731. we forgave rosy for hong chong ching chong and we forgave miley for the slant eyed stuff. we can forgive psy. the only people this will appeal to is some pissed off white guys who got a fork instead of chpsticks. dont speak for me as an american who actually served his country in war. u ever serve america in war?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHnYntZzaiQ iheartblueballs

    Worth mentioning for accuracy of the context. Also largely irrelevant.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    I hope you take this to heart because, as the years go by and I get older, I become less tolerant of bullshit.

    That’s interesting, because honestly, I feel my BS-tolerance has actually improved with age.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Oh, I don’t know. We’ve forgiven entertainers for saying and doing much worse.

  • gbnhj

    Good on you, Robert, really. We all need more of that. :)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHnYntZzaiQ iheartblueballs

    It’s going to follow him around for a while. Up until now, he’s been known as the funny, cool Gangam horsey dance guy who makes everyone dance and have fun. I mean shit, my 80-year old aunt fucking loved the guy and she barely knows what year it is. But wait til Bill O’Reilly and the dumb blond from Fox and Friends tell her about his dark side and how he not only doesn’t support the troops, but he wants them and their entire familes DEAD. That love affair is over and he may as well be Kim Jong Un.

    Instead of sitting down for a smiley session with Ellen, answering questions about the horsey dance, he now gets to answer questions about why he wants the daughters of US soldiers to die slow painful deaths. Not exactly the Entertainment Tonight lead-in you’re looking for. Feel free to look at the comments on his social media platforms already…it aint pretty.

    The fact that he’s new, largely unknown, and people are just forming impressions of him doesn’t help either. If he were established I’d say it would have less of an impact, but he’s just breaking in outside of Korea. He basically went from sliding down the hill of success on an oil-coated sled, to trying to trudge up it with 100-lb boots, all within 24 hrs.

  • pawikirogii

    he wont hv any problems w this. much ado bout nothin from some guys who aint never done squat for their country.

  • Wormwood

    You’re not sorry to post this here. Vulgar propagandist.

  • James Hyunshik

    I think back then – Psy was just jumping on any cause – to try to improve his popularity.

    Or maybe his years living in the USA made him hate Americans.

    I think it was the former reason though – jump on the bandwagon to try to get more fans.

    Now, he is making up bullshit excuses for why he did it “I was misinterpreted” – don’t think so.

  • Wormwood

    Yeah, the next interview with Ellen should be interesting. “So Psy, what exactly is a kojaengi? Am I saying that right?”

  • graham b

    “Or maybe his years living in the USA made him hate Americans.”

    I could underestand this. My years living in Korea made me hate Koreans. Not really, but just to illustrate a point.

  • Bendrix

    uh, thanks psy. what a dumb move. even if it was 10 years ago. and it coincides perfectly with the red dawn movie showing in theaters.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    For the rest of the world minus the USA, this will mean two things:

    1. Mild confusion as “Korea” to them is North Korea anyway with a famous chubby thrid gen dictator who is anti American heading a crazy nation.
    2. That Korean pop music not just manufactured candy-fluff by brainless idols and political and subversive acts do exist.

    As for the big-nosed deeply scarred by the traumatic events of 2002, their minds are made up, like the Park voters.

    The interesting relevant point is that it’s always the Koreans who bring down other Koreans. They are the most classic example of 사촌이 땅을 사면 배가 아픈 사람들. The first piece which CNN claims to have been the seed to it all was an unvetted CNN ireportwritten by a Korean-American.

    Anti-Tablo cafe was also a Korean(-American? residing in the US?)
    Hwang Woosuk (stem cell fame) was actually published by Science, before being shown up by his antis in Korea.
    Something to be said for such 오지랖 넓은 (minding other’s business), vigilante nature of these people.
    Anyway, I hate Disqus but I finally signed up. I might make a song about it now.

  • que337

    I did mean sorry, because this post is about psy, not about Pearl Harbor. As for vulgarity, IHBB avatar that has prevailed for years at MH would tell. Ask what propaganda means to gbevers et al.

  • ybt199

    This new layout is almost unreadable – what is that horrible, wormy font you are using for the text? And the tall headlines?

    Why change something that worked fine? And why on earth buy into the privacy/Javascript disaster that is Discuss (they can’t even spell properly). This is not good.

  • hardyandtiny

    Anti-Americanism? What a joke.
    Many Koreans had so much fun running around screaming in the streets during the 2002 World Cup they didn’t want the party to end after their team lost in the semi-finals. They used the accidental death of two teenage girls as a means to keep the party going by pretending they were deeply affected and anti-American. Very few people in Korea spend time protesting about auto accidents or wars. The truth is the protests that took place in 2002 and beyond were just a way for many Koreans in Seoul to get together, get drunk and run around in the streets.
    Psy should admit it felt good, it got the crowd going and made for a good party.

  • http://www.bcarr.com/ Brendon Carr

    Is Korea at war with the United States?

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Disqus did it for the copyright.

  • cm

    Yuna, think about this for a moment. It wasn’t the other jealous Korean who brought him down, it was Psy, and perhaps the young misguided Koreans in your generation during 2002 under the wise leadership of progressive political leadership, who took a tragic traffic accident and turned it into a mass orgy of irrational nationalism. This is just a residual effect of what happened 10 years ago. This is why it is important for Koreans to pick their leaders wisely. Psy is just one guy, all Koreans shouldn’t be tarnished, but who are we kidding? If Koreans reap the benefits of Psy’s fame, then Koreans should also take the lumps when Psy’s notoriety tarnishes all Koreans. This is exactly why I worry for the next election. I don’t want to see South Korea turn into another 2002, because the conditions that caused the irrational displays of nationalism in 2002 and 2002 Mad Cow incident are just dormant underneath waiting to be burst into life again with proper ignitions from the likes of Lee Jeong Hee, Moon Jae-in, Ahn Cheolsoo, and all the rest of them gang. This is another perfect example when Koreans just stop and reflect what happened 10 years ago, and say “we shouldn’t let that happen again”, then move on. But on the whole I agree with you, the worst enemy of Koreans are Koreans themselves.

  • cm

    Sorry, that should have said “2008 Mad Cow incident”.

  • Ex-Ex-Pat

    If Psy had just smashed a tank, his apology would have legs. The use of the term Kojangi is a game changer. I was in Korea in 2002. These were not protests. Koreans went around targeting individual foreigners on the street with the intent to humiliate them. Even the Canadians were on our side for this one. Well, many of them anyway. For example, if a restaurant owner wanted to express a political opinion, he would put a sign saying “USA go home.” If he were just a racist xenophobic douche, he would put up a sign saying ‘No Americans Allowed.’

  • 3gyupsal

    With the Park Geun Hye camp threatening to sue Korean Saturday Night Live over sketches that make fun of saenuri dang, I think that Psy performing in Washington would be a good lesson in free speech for Korea.

  • R. Elgin

    With the Park Geun Hye camp threatening to sue
    Korean Saturday Night Live over sketches that make fun of saenuri dang. .
    .

    They are sad and petty people that can only change their party name but not their habits.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com/ Sperwer

    Would Korea accept such a mealy-mouthed, self-interested, self-justifying – and thus insincere – apology from Japan?

  • silver surfer

    I’d like to see Opie and Anthony get hold of this and rip Psy a new one.

  • http://www.globalasianculture.com Liz

    Maybe, but the fact PSY isn’t really an established artist AND he represents the Yellow Peril of your worst nightmares will probably affect his prospects, possibly forever.

    Or perhaps Axelrod can fix this mess. Who knows.

  • JW

    No. But while we’re veering off into the topic of countries doing apologizing, I just realized that it took America about 140 years to apologize for slavery. And that can be seen as pretty self serving too, seeing how it came just after the election of the first African American into the presidency.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iX4JjUWYxLkoEPTNLabIH-wdel-g

  • cm

    I thnk Psy kind of represents Korea’s thirty something generation of today. Ten years ago, they were twenty something young people full of naive ideology. Looking back now, as they matured over the years, a lot of them realizes, how much they were hoodwinked by the ones in power. They realizes how foolish it was, and really regret what they’ve done and said.

  • Robert Neff

    Actually I am kind of surprised that this has grown now. Q and I discussed this about a month ago in an open-thread. We were trying to figure out when Psy gave his little performance and for what reasons. What was not surprising was shortly after I posted the link from Youtube that it was pulled – youtube cited that Psy’s agency claimed it was a copyright violation by posting it…..still….it is good to see it finally got out

  • creo69

    This guy is a trained chimp…someone tells him to sing an anti American song…he does it…someone tells him to dance around on a stage in downtown Seoul with his soju gut hanging out…he does it…some people will do anything for attention and money.

  • Charles Tilly

    I see that for at least one of our commentators, Fox News is all that bad right now.

  • Jeff Harris

    Creo,

    He’s an entertainer, and that’s what entertainers do – of course, not all are successful as he. I agree his apology seems a little trite, but who has not done stupid things when they were young?

  • http://twitter.com/whirlyshirly s-girl

    I’ll be interested to see how those outside the U.S. react to the American outrage about PSY’s beliefs. I don’t like what he said (assuming that the translation captures wholly the meaning of the entire song which I have not yet seen and would like to in order to understand the whole song itself). That said, I also remember that a lot of my non-American friends were exasperated with the U.S. Iraq War and were not supportive of the Bush administration policies. So I suspect PSY will do quite fine outside of the U.S. actually in spite of the news and the international community may criticize Americans for being unaware of the context that surrounds the performance of the song. That said, I don’t think Americans are all equally interested in the context. Or care.

  • GerryBevers

    Here is my translation of the lyrics:

    Kill all the big-nose Westerners, the Western bitches and bastards who tortured the Iraqi POWs and the fucking bitches and bastards who ordered it. Kill their daugters, their mothers, their daughter-in-laws, their fathers. Kill them very slowly. Kill them painfullly.

    Apology not accepted.

  • que337

    I do not like the lyric nor do I agree with the inhumane expression. But anti- Iraq war movement was a worldwide fad at that time and he was a guy of early 20s with the history of drug abuse. I wouldn’ t be surprised even if he sang more vulgar hyperbole congratulations.

  • que337

    Nowadays, journalism often take its source from comments and pictures of blogs. Idle job.

  • pawikirogii

    ‘just look what the japanese did to us!’ koreans
    ‘they apologized. it was decades ago. get over it!’ yahoo expat
    ‘just look what psy said about us!’ yahoo expat
    ‘he apologized. it was about a decade ago. get over it!’ koreans

  • Bob Bobbs

    Actually, its second act was four years ago. I was over it, the Koreans brought it up again. Hardy is right, the party in aught 2 was just a way to keep the World Cup alive. I think it actually began at 9/11 the year before, flared up again at the Mitt Romney Games in February with Ohno and the Korean loser who dropped his flag on the ground and then was on the back-burner during the FIFA dive-a-thon while Ahn Jung Hwan was putting on his makeup and taunting the American soccer team, but went full boil after they got eliminated. You cannot expect people to take your protests seriously if they were about an event that happened weeks before while you were too busy enjoying soccer. I loved partying in the streets in the summer of ee cheon ee nyeon, but by the fall I was getting called an American bastard in bars in Hongdae. It then went dormant, but went pustulant in 2008 when Koreans decided to demonstrate en masse that they neither understood anything about science, nor about democracy. When combined with the overall disregard for human life in Korea, the rampant sexism and racially discriminatory laws, the human rights abuses of foreigners and the desultory nature of life in its institutions of higher learning, I began to see Korea as a land of diminishing returns. I know someone will write in and call me a butt-hurt expat who should just go back to BC and watch hockey, but..there ain’t no hockey. So, if anyone is still reading this: what is better about Korea in ee cheon sheep ee nyeon? Anything?

  • http://www.globalasianculture.com Liz

    “If Koreans reap the benefits of Psy’s fame, then Koreans should also take the lumps when Psy’s notoriety tarnishes all Koreans.”

    Benefits? What benefits?

  • wangkon936

    Bob,

    I don’t know if the two are related. It was hardly Ahn Jung Hwan throwing down a paper machet U.S. tank.

    For the second half of your comment, yeah it certainly makes you sound like a butt hurt expat. I suppose if you give Korea another hundred years of democracy, they may reach your standards, but they have done decently well considering where they are coming from.

    http://groovekorea.com/article/politics-american-vs-korean

  • wangkon936

    Bravo cm.

  • wangkon936

    I was actually around when Ice Cube sang “Black Korea.” I remember being pretty made, but he did officially apologize to Korean American groups and after I saw him shaking hands and looking pretty contrite to various groups, I forgave him.

  • keyinjpop

    Not sure if my tolerance has improved but my ability to handle BS has improved a good bit. I’m still young though so maybe my tolerance will improve later.

  • silver surfer

    We’ve all been young, stupid, drunk, high, and pissed off enough to wish death and pain on this person or that country, Not enough to get up on stage and perform a song about it for money tho’.

    You’re talking as if this was just something he said one time in the heat of the moment.

  • que337

    Even though the selection of words and expression had serious problem, the motive and the social background the song came out could be understood. Worldwide movement against Iraq war and coincidental tragic accident of two Korean teenage girls case which could not be tried at Korean court based on SOFA would be enough US military to be placed in the center of uncomfortably huge amount of attention.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002200674544 Fei Zhang

    Comments like this are why I can’t say I’ll be entirely unhappy when Korea reverts to the motherland once China gets its act together, militarily.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002200674544 Fei Zhang

    In the eyes of a large number of Koreans, Korea is at war with the US. We just don’t know it yet. As I’ve said before, we’d save a bunch of money if we simply got the troops out and left Korea to its own devices, whether that meant Korea becoming a Chinese vassal state or going all the way towards reunification with China.

  • wangkon936
  • SomeguyinKorea

    Yes, exactly. But, unfortunately, as a public figure he was complicit in the hoodwinking.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Context? What context do you need for “…Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers Kill them all slowly and painfully”?

    Please note that my post is independent of whether I think that PSY’s apology was sincere, sufficient, or even necessary.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    I see those events, the pre-game rallies during the World Cup, concerts like the one where he expressed his hatred for the “big-nosed”, and the renewed frenzy over the Dokdo/Takeshima dispute, as an exercise in fascism. They got the normally marginalized youth drunk with nationalism and the illusion of power. They were the means to an end.

  • ig5959292ee

    very true

  • que337

    김밥 옆구리 터지는 소리하고 있네.

  • que337

    “Gang rape shows the people who do it are still virile, and that is
    okay. I think that might make them close to normal.” – Seiichi Ota, LDP lawmaker of Japan

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3025240.stm

    Aside from apology, could you see why enforced military sex slavery would not be a problem in Japanese mentality?

  • Arghaeri

    To be fair it only refers to those who actually did it, and ordered it, not every big nose.

  • Arghaeri

    pawi, you notice how that changed from decades (6) to about a decade……

  • que337

    US military court found not guilty of the servicemen who trampled two Korean middle school girls flat under the 50 ton tank. They were not even tried at Korean court. Many Koreans forgave the American servicemen, but it also made Koreans questions about US military.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com/ Sperwer

    “Kill ALL the big-nose Westerners”..

  • silver surfer

    I was against the Iraq War as were millions around the world, but, oddly enough, you didn’t see anti-war protestors calling for the murder and torture of innocent children so don’t try to rope us into your case for Psy’s defense.

  • que337

    The rest of the sentence elaborates who the Westerners are.

  • que337

    Innocent two Korean children were “killed” by US tank. The case was not tried at Korean court and found not guilty at US military court. Even though it was an accident and many Koreans forgave the American servicemen, sadness, anger and frustration of people could be understood.

  • silver surfer

    “Kill all the big-nose Westerners…who tortured…”. Since Korean doesn’t distinguish between defining and non-defining relative clauses, I suppose we can’t be 100% sure of the writer’s intent.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    . It wasn’t the other jealous Korean who brought him down, it was Psy, and perhaps the young misguided Koreans in your generation during 2002 under the wise leadership of progressive political leadership, who took a tragic traffic accident and turned it into a mass orgy of irrational nationalism

    Eh? Yes, it was. It’s like saying it wasn’t Psy who got popular, it’s the millions who watched the youtube.

    And Ms.Park is not your answer. She is like Ms.Lee Soonja (Mrs Chun Doowhan) at best a vacuous smiley first lady of a politician. Ahn could have been, my jury is still out with a big humpf on Moon.

    There is an element of emotional and illogical crazyness in the left wing of Korea. I was very surprised about the unscientific nature of a documenatary (i.e. Mad Cow) which managed to get seemingly half a nation who’s recently voted a guy in in the first place who then got all riled up over the way he handled things to fall out into the street with little candles in cups.

    HOWEVER, allow me to be as condescending as you and say, please, let’s not fall into the trap of making it out to be some big old thing that can equal a dictator’s rule or ordered massacre or ordered wars, or heavens forbid, actual terrorist attacks. Let’s not let it happen? Let’s not let what happen?

    I would hold a candle for the dead but where is the dead?

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com/ Sperwer

    Do you and Q honestly believe that the following clause was meant as a limitation of “ALL” rather than a further specification of some of those who were deserving of special “attention”.

  • silver surfer

    Sure. But then you apologize for going too far afterwards and you do it before the PR department forces you to.

  • que337

    Yea, I believe so. silver surfer seems to have never read Korean text or lack his knowledge. Korean language text of the lyric is very clear that it specifies the people who tortured prisoners and those who ordered to do it.

    “이라크 포로를 고문한 XX들과 고문하라고 시킨 XX과 그 딸과 어머니, 며느리 등 코쟁이 모두 죽여, 아주 천천히 죽여, 고통스럽게 죽여”

    The English translation fragmented the Korean text into many pieces and made its meaning obscure. But the Korean text is one sentence, which evidently specifies the people psy is singing about.

  • que337
  • silver surfer

    I’m going to have to take your word for it since I do ‘lack my knowledge’ and I was going by Gerry Bevers’
    translation. If I had to translate it, I’d need a Korean co-translator to be sure it’s not ambiguous. The line ‘코쟁이 모두 죽여’ does look a bit suspect, however.

  • que337

    Iraqis have big nose too.

  • silver surfer

    속을 메스껍게 …

  • que337
  • silver surfer

    Or the Iraqis.

  • pawikirogii

    oh, it;s not long enough. i see. how much has to pass before psy stops being a proxy for pissed ETs?

  • GerryBevers

    No, it said kill “all big-nose foreigners,” after having just included the families of those involved. Their families didn’t do or order anything. Why would he also want them killed, along with “all big-nose foreigners”?

    이라크 포로를 고문해 댄 씨발양년놈들과
    고문 하라고 시킨 개 씨발 양년놈들에
    딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두 죽여
    아주 천천히 죽여 고통스럽게 죽여

  • que337

    gbevers reads the Korean sentence wrong. The lyric does not say killing all big-nosers. The text clearly specify killing those who tortured and ordered to do that and their families, not entire big- nosed population. Mr. Marmot might be able to clarify it.

  • GerryBevers

    Are you really Korean, Que?

    양년놈 means “Western bitches and bastards.” Here is the definition of 양놈 from Naver’s Korean-Korean dictionary:

    “양놈 (洋-) – 서양 사람을 비속하게 이르는 말”

    Translation: “A vulgar word for referring to Western people.”

  • que337

    The version I found marked the word with XX.

  • GerryBevers

    Actually, 코쟁이 모두 죽여 literally means “kill all ‘white’ people,” but Koreans generally use it to refer to all Westerners.

  • Ex-Ex-Pat

    We can tell just by reading the statement, that Psy did not draft it. My question: did even read it? If he wants to show he is sorry he needs to go a step further and make a statement TO KOREANS that they need to re-think senseless anti-Americanism.

  • que337

    Hello. you keep omitting the specifier. The text specifies killing big nosers who tortured and ordered to do torture and their families, not entire big nosed population.

  • GerryBevers

    If the writer had wanted to limit those killed to only those involved and their families, he would have written it without including the word 코쟁이 (white people) to the list. He would have simply written “…개 씨발 양년놈들에 딸래미 애미 며느리 애비가 모두….”

    The 에 after 양년놈들 means “in addition to.”

  • que337

    Mr. Bevers, your translation fails, again. It’ s not “in addition to”. It is “of” that specifies the preceding word.

  • GerryBevers

    Again, if it had meant “of,” then why was 코쟁이 (white people) added to the list?

    One of the uses of 에 is the following: 둘 이상의 사물을 나열할 때 쓴다.

    Translation: “It is used when listing two or more things.”

    Example: 그 식당은 자장면에 비빔밥(에) 돈가스(에) 없는 게 없이 다 있다.

    Translation: “That restaurant has everything, including jajang noodles, bibimbap, and pork cutlet.”

  • Ben Wagner

    Arghaeri Don’t the lyrics call for the killing of the relatives of the alleged perpetrators as well? It’s pretty reminiscent of the NK 3 generations of punishment idea or the “blood revenge” (“천백” times punishment) against Americans and their families. http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-kim-jong-unkim-jong-il-hidden-fifth-floor-yanggakdo-hotel-pyongyang2011-12?op=1

    Personally speaking, although I’m not a fan of the singer (or kpop in general) it’s nice to see all the positive int’l attention the horsey song has generated for S. Korea. I’m for giving him a-PSY-lum. The US is all about second chances for screw up entertainers, why should he be any different?

  • que337

    Read your own translation. Then you would realize you contradict yourself for the sake of our own tedious game.

  • GerryBevers

    No, I did not contradict myself. “코쟁이 모두” (All big-nose Westerners) is a catchall phrase that includes everything that comes before it, just like the 없는 게 없이 다 있다 in my example above. That was why I put it at the first of my translation. The only thing that I added was an extra “kill” before “their daughters” and the other relatives. I added it for clarity since the two prior groups had long relative clauses defining them. Again, here is my translation:

    “Kill all the big-nose Westerners, the Western bitches and bastards who tortured the Iraqi POWs and the fucking bitches and bastards who ordered it. Kill their daugters, their mothers, their daughters-in-law, their fathers. Kill them very slowly. Kill them painfullly.”

  • Bob Bobbs

    So you’re saying that nothing is better in Korea. Thanks for confirming that. Decently well? I am aware of what a hell-hole Korea was back in the day, but I got tired of waiting for it to change and left. If you aren’t a trans-racial abductee trying to learn about his past, a half-Korean trying to learn the language or a westerner married to a Korean, you don’t have to be there and there are better ways to live. I learned a lot, thanks, and I know you find this disappointing but that is an honest appraisal.

    I think the incidents ARE related, but only in terms of how they reveal the latent xenophobia of Koreans. Remember, Ahn taunted the Americans before the tank incident occurred- he was just playing to the anti-American vibe that had been simmering since the Salt Lake games. I think that 9/11 showed that the Americans were no longer invulnerable and that many Koreans took pleasure in this, that they were whipped into a frenzy by Ohno-gate (and confirmed their national immaturity this summer when they beat Japan in Olympic soccer), that Ahn Jung Hwan taunted the Americans because he (and the rest of the country) were still mad about Ohno, that nobody in Korea gave a flying fig about the two dead girls when it happened (just like they don’t care about the thousands of other pedestrians that get run over every year) because they were too busy in their nationalistic soccer circle jerk, that the delayed nature of the 2002 protests made them seem insincere, that this meant it was briefly open season in Korea on any American or anyone who looked American (ask the GI who got stabbed while jogging outside Yongsan base that summer), that this then lay dormant for years and resurfaced in Korea’s national hallucination in the summer of 2008 (the same burning of US flags, the reworked images of the same dead girls, the same motley collection of professional protesters, the same hostility and fear toward Americans and by extension all foreigners and the same rampant and indiscriminate violence on the streets of Seoul.) NB: this makes your country look bad. (Cue dedicated western ‘professor’ telling me that I can’t take this sort of thing too seriously.) This was an ugly side of Koreans that I had hoped was dead, and its rebirth made me leave. I’m not surprised PSY said insane things in 2002, many Koreans did. Even seemingly rational Koreans here in Canada talk about how the Koreans are pushed around by the US. Perhaps they’d like to spend some time in a North Korean concentration camp hauling excrement. Gangnam Style is about saying and doing things to make money and the vacuous nature of the lifestyle it engenders, and PSY knows it. If you dig hard enough into the past lives of any musician or other public figure you can find horrifying stuff: Eric Clapton calling people in the crowd Nxxxxers, Jimmy Page screwing 14-year old girls. PSY got famous by saying provocative things, and the grey area is around the question of whether or not he believes them. In a county where 8-year olds go to school singing ‘Pucking USA,’ it’s hard to believe that he doesn’t believe them at all. Never meet your heroes.

  • Sonagi

    The interpretation stated by Arghaeri and others does not fit the gendered language used in the lyrics:

    양년놈들 refers to women and men, but the family members noted, 딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두, are all female, except for 애비, suggesting that the writer was referring to the family members of men. In any case, wishing slow and painful deaths on people publicly probably isn’t a good idea since it can lead to misunderstandings.

  • Sonagi

    What Q said.

  • Sonagi

    Q is right, Gerry. You are proficient enough in Korean not to overlook an obvious modifier.

  • GerryBevers

    Yes, I am, so please tell me what you think the modifier is, Sonagi.

  • que337

    Even though it is fragmented, the translation Bobby McGil used delivers the meaning of the Korean text:

    Kill those f****** Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives
    Kill those f****** Yankees who ordered them to torture
    Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
    Kill them all slowly and painfully

    It is not a surprise at all but Gerry Bevers distorted the meaning of Korean sentence into as if psy is demanding massacre of entire Westerners. Shame on you, Mr. Bevers.

  • que337

    “고문 하라고 시킨 개 씨발 양년놈들에 딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두 죽여” “Kill the big nose daughters, mothers, daughter-in-laws and fathers of the f*cking Yankees who ordered to torture”

  • GerryBevers

    First, Q, it doesn’t say “Yankee” (양키); it says, “Western bitches and bastards,” so that is a mistranslation right there. Second, it doesn’t say, “Kill them all”; it says, “Kill all big-nose Westerners.” Third, if you are going to kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers, why stop there? You might as well go ahead and kill their brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, and cousins. But why even stop there? Kill “every white bitch and bastard” (코쟁이 모두) just to make sure.

  • KoreaWTF

    Here is a petition to to have his performance striked from the show – http://wh.gov/Rlxt

  • wangkon936

    Bob,

    Maybe it’s time for you to leave. If you can’t squeeze more water out of a rock, then you know it’s time for you to leave. I mean, apparently you don’t know the language, you don’t have anyone that you are emotionally connected to and you don’t appear to have special skills to ensure you have an above average wage. If you can make just as much in your home country and your home country is just more comfortable for you, then time to go home, no? You are clearly not happy in Korea.

    However, your opinion is your opinion and you shouldn’t talk like it’s gospel truth because it’s not. Your problems seem bigger to you because you don’t have the income, frequency of free pussy, or circle of friends that you want. It’s not because Korea is actually as bad as you say. Korea is not Afghanistan or Sierra Leone, that much is true no matter what you think or say, so you shouldn’t talk like it’s in the same league. You talk about how Koreans should spend some time in a North Korean concentration camp. Maybe some should. But at the same time, maybe you should spend some time is a real shitty poor country (which would still be 85% of the world) before you act as judge, jury and executioner to a country that’s gone father in the last 50 years then you can possibly imagine.

  • que337

    You are right on 양년놈 which means ‘Western bitches and bastards’. But you are not right on your assertion that the lyric is asking for holocaust of entire Western population. Who are the people in “them” and “their”? It indicates “those f****** Western bitches and bastards who have been torturing Iraqi captives” and “those f****** Western bitches and bastards who ordered them to torture”. Korean sentence is more clear.

    딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두 죽여

    Also, in the Korean text, 코쟁이 (Big nosers) is specified by 딸래미(daughter), 애미(mother), 며느리(daughter-in-law), and father (애비). So it means 딸래미 코쟁이 (big noser daugher), 며느리 코쟁이 (big noser mother), and 애비 코쟁이 (big noser father). They are the family of the people who ordered torture.

    It seems Mr. Bevers’ deficient understanding of Korean language is complicated with English comprehension problem.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I think he meant that were it nor for the US many S.Koreans would have spent their time in a North Korean concentration camp. Which is quite true. He may be bitter, but that does not invalidate his point: it was guys like PSY who added fuel to the fire and stoked it high. Those were some ugly times and many Koreans showed themselves to be quite despicable, including PSY if we go by his words. His apology comes late and comes off as insincere. if the shit did not start stinking, would he have apologized? If he was truly sorry for what he said he would have apologized before the story hit. But now that the gravy train in the only country where he can actually make millions has been put in some jeopardy he comes out with his apology. He knows that if he were to rely on making money in Korea he would be making peanuts.

  • wangkon936

    Reread your comment. Oh, you left already? Good on you. Now having said that, your thoughts on Korea are getting increasingly dated.

    I suggest you read a Time magazine article on another expat who returned back to Korea and saw how things changed:

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2029399,00.html

  • Bob Bobbs

    Yeah, dude. In fact, I asked you how it had changed but you were too busy freaking out about my insult to your beloved homeland to answer the question. Dated, perhaps. Accurate as to what did occur? I believe they are. The thing that bothers me about your personal insults are that you are bemoaning my anti-Korean sentiment while drawing conclusions based upon what sort of person you think most Western men in Korea are: poor, uneducated, friendless, non-Korean speaking, lonely. Some of that was indeed true for me for part of my time in Korea, but I know that is the case for every expat at one point or another. You are making gross generalizations, and that is a step away from being racist. I never said anything in my posts that hinted at my education, my income or my sexual life, that’s just you filling in the blanks with your negative view of foreigners- the same thing PSY is in trouble for. I might read the article, but you’ve convinced me that, yeah, nothing has changed about Korea. I had lots of friends there, worked for many universities and chaebols and had lots of fun, even met a girl or two. (Boom, there go your assumptions about me.) I’ve been to worse places on Earth (China, USSR, East Germany, Indonesia, Philippines) and they all had racism, sexism and corruption but the PSY scandal reveals just how hard it is going to be for Koreans to be accepted by a world they almost universally revile. I hope that, one day, young Korean men who dress like Dr. Dre will realize that the good doctor would hate to be called a shikamdoongi, just as I hated being called a kojaengi. Just as I hated watching Korean men beat the hell out of women on the street while the police did nothing, just as I hated hearing Koreans talk about how dirty Chinese and black people are, just as I hated watching them lynch dogs on the street, beating them to death and eating them, just as I hated watching children being run over by buses running red lights. I have good memories of Korea too, but they aren’t all pretty.

  • Sonagi

    Looks like a translator massaged Psy’s apology a bit. Read what he actually said in Korean:

    “디어 아메리카’ 가사가 번역돼 유감스러운 마음뿐이다”

    “I only feel regret that the lyrics to dear America were translated.”
    More believable, isn’t it? ‘ I’m only sorry the foreigners found out.’

    HT to Kangaji at ROK Drop: http://rokdrop.com/2012/12/08/psy-issues-apology-for-anti-american-past-should-americans-accept-it/#comment-477200

  • Bob Bobbs

    I read the article, it’s from over two years ago so it’s only about 18 months more up-to-date than what I remember and it doesn’t really turn me on. Dude, I had a Jell frequent flyer card, but I got sick of paying W30,000 for a $6.00 bottle of wine and W20,000 for 100 grams of pepperoni. Holding that guy up as a paragon of globalization ignores the fact that his form of globalization is only for those who can pay for it. I wouldn’t be caught dead with an iPhone, nor am I about to start an IT company, so this article leaves me a little cold. I suppose it’s nice you can eat something other than gopjang in the cafeterias these days and that women aren’t just for raping anymore. Whoopee.

  • wangkon936

    SalarymaninSeoul,

    I hear what your saying. I don’t necessarily not know what an American (or Canadian) would have felt like in Korea in 2002. I was in Los Angeles during the riots and when that Korean lady shot and killed that black girl in 1991. During the riots in 1992, when I saw black people deliberately target Koreans and Korean property. I remember the highly inflammatory song “Black Korea” sung by Ice Cube that advocated the burning of Korean shops. I had friends who took guns to help defend themselves from roving gangs of people looking for Korean property to destroy and Korean people to harm. It was a scary and unwelcoming time. However, I don’t go on blogs get a fake screen name and talk shit about black people and their culture or their neighborhoods for something that happened 20 years ago. I’ve moved on.

    I also don’t see what happened in 2002 as a trend in Korea on it being increasingly more anti-American. I just don’t see that. Maybe you do, I don’t know. It probably doesn’t help that in 2002 the U.S. military had such a huge presence in a major metropolitan area in Korea. I’m sure if there was a major U.S. military presence in Tokyo, then the Japanese would be pretty sore about it too. The good thing is that most of the U.S. military in Japanese soil is in Okinawa, not Tokyo. The Okinawas are pretty pissed and if an armored personnel carrier ran over two of their girls and the driver got acquitted then they would react just as strongly as the Koreans, if not more. The Okinawas have had stuff like that going on since the end of WWII. The U.S. military acts like Okinawa is their personal fiefdom to do whatever they damn well please at times. I know of a marine who was stationed in both Okinawa and Korea and he said that the Okinawas hated him, but he didn’t blame them. The marines there act like they are above the law a lot of times and the mainland Japanese don’t care. Mainland Japanese don’t really consider the Okinawas equal to them. Maybe that’s why most of the U.S. military is there instead of the main islands. He felt a lot more welcomed (liked and appreciated) when stationed in Korea.

    Now regarding PSY. He should not be able to make a lot of money in the U.S. for what he said, however, I do believe that the U.S. entertainment industry has a history of civic criticism of government and it may, at the end of the day, not see PSY’s actions as you and other expats see it. Thus, the ultimate result on PSY’s career in the U.S. may not be harmed as you may think. You already see the Washington Post giving PSY a pass. I don’t think this is right, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why ends up happening.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Lest anyone think I am just flag-waving for the evil Americans: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/08/psy-lyrics-anti-us-anger

  • wangkon936

    Well, I’m definitely not being racist. I’m actually being sympathetic. If I was in a country for a real long time not knowing the language, in a dead end job, no girlfriend, not with a reliable circle of friends, hell I would be a pissy expat too. But, the difference between you and me is that I still wouldn’t talk shit about the place I’m leaving. I would think I’m better then that.

  • Wedge1

    You led the way on this one.

  • wangkon936

    Well Bob. What about your fellow countrymen?

    http://www.eatyourkimchi.com

    They have been in Korea for four years now and seem immune to the negativity that you have experienced.

  • Wedge1

    This is extremely relevant. Snubbing a speedskater and accidently running over two girls is the same thing as Pearl Harbor.

  • Wedge1

    Agreed.

  • que337

    Psy’s next to the comment annotates why he did not want the song to be translated:

    “노래에 담긴 단어들로 인해 생긴 고통에 대해 평생 죄송하게 생각할 것이다”

    ‘죄송’ is not a mere regret. It expresses his guilty sensation about the pain caused by the words in the song.

  • Bob Bobbs

    I’m not. I told you what I saw, and I asked you if it had changed. You haven’t convinced me that it has, neither has PSY. Why do you make such assumptions about my Korean language ability, my education, whether or not I have or had a girlfriend and my friends? Because you think Westerners in Korea are all losers and you come to this board to remind them of their loserdom. You really aren’t that different from someone who sings songs about western dog-fXXing sons of bitXXes. Your hatred isn’t dated, it’s quite fresh and still just as repellent.

  • wangkon936

    “Because you think Westerners in Korea are all losers and you come to this board to remind them of their loserdom. You really aren’t that different from someone who sings songs about western dog-fXXing sons of bitXXes. Your hatred isn’t dated, it’s quite fresh and still just as repellent.”

    Dude… you really are full of yourself. You came to all those conclusions just by what I think about you? Amazing. There’s just too much wrapped around in there for me to help to unwrap. Plus, I just don’t care about you enough to try. Perhaps that sums up your experience in Korea? Someone who hates his environment so much his vibe is just off. Why try to work with someone like that? Why show him any understanding. He might just shove it back into your face.

  • KoreaWTF

    It’s so embarrassing what’s happening to our country, we let this
    buffoon who has expressed hate speech towards our troops and their loves
    ones – come to our capital, dance like a horse and sing gibberish in
    front of our president. If an American rapper said, “Kill Koreans and
    let them die painfully and slowly” after SeungHui Cho (A Korean
    immigrant) massacred all those Americans at Virgina Tech the Koreans
    would not have been as forgiving and let him perform in front of their
    president. In fact, this how the Koreans would have responded. They
    would storm the web in the millions and crash servers with so many
    Anti-American comments. They would then organize rallies for months
    asking for his head, some would even do acts of self-immolation (setting
    themselves on fire) in protest, and then they would have their rappers
    (like Psy) sing hateful Anti-American songs. Eventually North Korea
    would test fire a missile and they would all run home with their tails
    between their legs silently praying that America protects them.

  • que337

    The fair and balanced Fox News portrayed the song as if the lyric is targeting honorable servicemen, which is not. Fox News also failed to show balanced background context (worldwide anti-Iraq war movement, two Korean school girls death, etc.) which led him to the extreme words.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GPqHhkTA96g

  • Bob Bobbs

    So, if I’m wrong, answer the question: Why do you make such assumptions about my Korean language ability, my
    education, whether or not I have or had a girlfriend and my friends? I didn’t refer to any of those things in my post, you assumed them to be true. I can only guess that you did so because you harbour ill-feeling toward westerners in general. You’ll probably come on here and say you did so because I am so negative, leading me to think that you like westerners, as long as they are prepared to be relentlessly positive toward Korea. This desire to be seen only as you wish is precisely what is getting PSY in such trouble today.

  • que337

    Ma’am, your favorite commenter Kangaji also posted “a nigga moment“, which you appreciated very much.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHnYntZzaiQ iheartblueballs

    Isn’t there another significant difference between you and Bob?

    That being the fact that Bob’s knowledge of Korea comes from actually living there and experiencing the things he’s talking about, while yours comes primarily from reading about it and citing articles from other people who lived there or are living there?

    Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

    And no, I don’t consider living in Koreatown or 2-week vacations to the motherland a valid substitute.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Did Fox News also screw up by failing to report that the lyric used the imperative form for “Kill their daughters, their mothers, their daughters-in-law, their fathers. Kill them very slowly. Kill them painfully.” I’m sure Fux News screwed up further by failing to report that “big nosers” is a racial slur.

    Fair and balanced my ass. …and Fox too.

  • wangkon936

    Well IHBB, that depends. If a foreigner was to spend a few years in the American inner city or a rural area then that foreigner may get a distorted view of what America really is. I speak to people who have recently come from Korea all the time. They don’t know this country that Mr. Bob Bobbs speaks of. If it did exist perhaps it was in the 70′s, 80′s or the early 90′s or, if today, then deep in the shigol. But even today, even the Korean shigol has changed quite a bit.

    I am a man who tends to align his views with the available data. The data I see is of a country with an expanding economy, increasing per capita GDP, increasing life expectancy, more foreigners calling it home and increasing tourism numbers. If Korea was as bad as Mr. Bob Bobbs says it is, then all those indicators would show NEGATIVE rates, wouldn’t it? Thus, I am inclined to think Mr. Bobbs is full of shit and if you are a thinking person maybe you should too. Given the data I am more inclined to believe expats (or former expats) such as Mr. Michael Schuman (Time Magazine), Mr. Daniel Tudor (formally of the Financial Times), et. al. and the many people who left Korea to visit or settle in America to get a more accurate viewpoint of what’s going on there and where that country is heading.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    The targets are not specifically the servicemen, they seem to be pretty much all big nosers, including but not restricted to the servicemen and women. What context could POSSIBLY excuse “Kill their daughters, their mothers, their daughters-in-law, their fathers. Kill them very slowly. Kill them painfully.” ? I double dare you to find context to excuse that. His career in the US is done. Too bad thats the only market he can make millions in. Sweet comeuppence.

  • que337
  • Bob Bobbs

    Racism, sexism and human rights abuses didn’t keep America from winning total victory in WWII, and its economy kept expanding, so did its life expectancy etc. Those numbers are all true for China, too, but you aren’t rushing to move there are you? Korea is experiencing growth in those areas because other parts of the world are imploding (and, yes, Korea is better than moving from Sierra Leone to Mali), not because it’s such a great place to live. Lies, damn lies and statistics. The people you named as your guides to Seoul have personal chauffeurs, live in apartments with security guards, expat allowances that put their kids into Seoul International School or whatever the hell it’s called, flit from their office to Embassy parties or wine tastings at the Hilton and think that going out in Korea means a couple of W15,000 Heineken’s at the hooker bar in the basement of the Hyatt before their driver picks them up. They will tell you that things are going great because that’s true for Samsung. That sort of thing is not reality for the vast majority of honkies in Korea (and the odd non-honky that the Koreans deign to hire), and was a world of which I only grabbed a glimpse. Giving me this sort of corporatized version of reality in which life is awesome because we can overpay for imported food now, babble like hyenas on our 900 dollar iPhones and be CEOs of our very own software firm makes me puke. Of course Korea isn’t truly anti-American, EVERY professor at my old uni in Seoul had an American Ph.D. But they sure like to spew a lot of hatred in their off-time when they think it’s only for Korean audiences. That’s what I had to listen to while the guys from Time and the FT were getting handjobs on their company cards at the juicy bar upstairs from Gecko’s which is the number one foreigner bar in the country (at least it sure was). They don’t tell you that in the FT, do they? I don’t know you or where you live or whether or not you’ve ever been to Korea, but you really can’t understand anything about a country until you’ve lived there. This sort of racism and discrimination is universal. It’s the same thing Catholics and Protestants do to each other in England, that people like the EDL and Abu Qatada do to each other in England, that Canadians and Americans do to each other all the time- why do you think Koreans are the only people on Earth who would never stoop to that level?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Thats so much better.NO amount of hair splitting will change the fact that the fat shit is finished in the US. Let him earn his pennies in the domestic Korean market.

  • Sonagi

    It wasn’t white big nosers who made that video, Q.

  • wangkon936

    You haven’t been in TMH for long, huh? I live in the U.S. I’m an American, albeit of Korean heritage, but an American nonetheless. This is a fact I’ve never tried to hide.

    Yes, China is growing, but I was there a little over a month ago. It still has a long way to go in terms of being a developed country and it still has an authoritarian government. I think China needs to bake for another 20 or more years.

    Lots of people go to American universities and are anti-American, including Americans! Sucks I know, but what does that prove? The other stuff I’m not gonna comment on because it’s unorganized gobbledygook and I don’t really know what your point is nor do I care to reread it a few times to figure it out. Too many run on sentences and no paragraphs. When people write like that I’ve found it usually means there is some kind of emotional trama triggering it. Other then that, good day.
    .

  • Bob Bobbs

    You don’t understand what I’m saying because (I suppose) you’ve never lived in Korea. I have indeed been on TMH for a while, but I haven’t developed a catalogue of who is what ethnicity and where they live. True, there are no paragraphs, but there aren’t any run-on sentences. I am a teacher, you know.

  • que337

    Ma’am, is “a nigga moment” kinda same thing with big nosers making fun of their own noses?

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    I agree. I like Korea, for the most part, it has its nuissances but Im 90% happy here, have a family here and I live a good, comfortable life. I have no beef with “Korea” but there are elements here, particularly of the “progressive” persuasion that exhibit strong xenophobic tendencies that erupt every few years. PSY was one of the people fanning the flames and I find his apology pathetic. If he was really contrite, really sorry, then he should have apologized before the shit hit the fan. He was on Ellen’s show, not exactly a hard hitting program, and he could have said something to the effect “a decade ago, when I was much younger and dumber, I said some very awful things about America. I am eally sorry about this. America has accepted me with open arms, and has allowed me to reap great financial benefits from my work. I am truly grateful and no longer harbor those sorts of views.” But he didnt. He kept quiet, and only apologized when he was found out. He isnt sorry for what he said or sang. He is sorry he got caught.

    Nothing that happened then excuses what he called for. He didnt call for the pull out of the US military or financial restitution to the families of the girls, nor criminal prosecution for the soldiers. He didnt call for the end of the Iraq war. He called for the murder of wives, fathers and daughters of soldiers and, depending on how you read the text, for the mass slaughter of all big-nosers.

  • wangkon936

    “I am a teacher, you know.”

    Ah, so I was right. One must remember that an “English Teacher” in Korea is a highly variable in quality asset. I don’t know where you stand on that spectrum. Personally, I think there are too many of them in Korea. Korea does not need to know English as much as they think they need to know it.

    Let’s put logic on the line here. If Koreans were so anti-American and not interested in evolving their country and culture (i.e.modernizing), then why is English so freaking popular? If Korea wants to resort to Joseon Dynastic ethics or stay as a corrupt state or as one that is fundamentally unequal towards women and minorities, then they would have thrown out English language instruction long ago, right? But English get’s MORE popular through the years. Why is that? True, one can say that Koreans take it for the obvious career advancement reasons and this would certainly be true in a lot of circumstances. However, knowing English and speaking it also affiliates you and exposes you to the culture of the main countries that speak it, namely the U.S., England, Australia, etc. Korea is third in the world, behind giants China and India, in sending students to America.

    Again, I repeat what I said before. If Koreans hated America so much or doesn’t want to modernize then why do they spend all that money and all that time studying in America and studying English? Knowing English exposes you to the cultural and business influence of the Western world and Korea, as a country, has said with a resounding “yes” with their time and their pocketbooks that they want this.

    You seem to know A LOT about Korean vice. I wouldn’t be able to find that stuff out if I spent 10 years in Korea or even supposedly sex paradise Thailand. Why? Because I don’t seek it out nor do I have friends who seek it out. Every nation has red light districts. Want to find one you just need to ask a lot with people who you think may know. Again, I don’t know you but if that’s the sum of your experiences in a given country, then maybe your hanging out with the wrong circle of people.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Context, Q, context. The picture you link to is a Pinocchio reference. When Psy used “big nosers”, he used it as a racial slur.

    Think of the difference as when people talk about Angelina Jolie’s big lips and African Americans’. One is not a racial slur, and the other is. It’s that simple, and no matter how you try to tu quoQue this one, it’s not going to convince anyone.

  • wangkon936

    “why do you make such assumptions about my Korean language ability, my education, whether or not I have or had a girlfriend and my friends?”

    Because based on my experience people who have good jobs, a girlfriend and good friends in Korea (or any where else for that matter) tend to just have a better attitude about where they are at. It’s those that don’t have good jobs or a girlfriend or friends that tend to be angry and talk shit, just like those Arab kids in France that rioted or the black kids that rioted in L.A. One can be treated unfairly at times, but if you have a nice paycheck and a nice girl friend to return to, then people tend to complain less.

    Also, if you can’t communicate with the people around you, then people tend to misunderstand or misinterpret what they see going on around them. At the least, you don’t get the context for why things are done the way they are done. Thus, I think all these things about you because what you say is consistent with people who I have found to have the aforementioned problems. I could be wrong and I don’t mean to judge you harshly, but your insistence to only focus on the negatives opens you up to such analysis.

  • Bob Bobbs

    Yeah, you’re right. I am (was?) a teacher. That doesn’t make me unskilled, mean I have no girlfriend, that I earn less than average, nor that I have no friends. That’s your bias coming out in your words. Stop getting personal.

    Why do I know so much about Korean vice? You wouldn’t be able to live in Korea for ten minutes without walking past a place of prostitution, let alone ten years. An-mas, danlanjujeoms, dabangs, yoinsuks, they are all into it in one way or another. But they do make a nice, cheap place to stay when you are at the beach. Korea can drag a westerner down or lift them up, but Korean men aren’t necessarily the best role models. I suppose I saw it as dragging me down more than it lifted me up, and the Koreans were being real pains in the ass at the time so I left. It’s even more complicated than that, actually, but causation is never easy to establish.

    Koreans are conflicted about learning English, much as westerners are conflicted about multiculturalism. Frankly, yes, I think teaching English in Korea is a racket and it’s not something I depend upon anymore. I DO think it erases cultures and minority languages. It’s something I fell into, not something I planned to do, and I got as qualified in it as possible over the years while scheming to get out. I see what you are saying about learning English, but I always felt that Korean students (and their parents, especially) wanted the language and not the values. I suppose that’s fair, actually. It’s just a way I used to make money, and I don’t see it as a civilizing mission.

    There: paragraphs.

  • que337

    If it is not a racial slur, is it okay to make fun of other people’s nose? Could I say you have a long nose without intending racial slur? Could only white people can make fun of big/long nose?

  • Bob Bobbs

    No, they just don’t level with you the way they level with me. People who stay there get angrier and angrier, but they become totally dependent on Koreans so they can’t say what they truly feel. Especially not to a Korean-American.

  • wangkon936

    “… there are elements here, particularly of the “progressive” persuasion that exhibit strong xenophobic tendencies that erupt every few years. “

    I will admit that as a person of Korean ethnicity and with Korean language skills I probably don’t get exposed to a lot of these xenophobic tendencies. I was with a Chinese friend and some Koreans assumed I was Chinese and they treated us not so well. Nothing dramatic, but it was clear we were being slighted. After those Koreans found out I was Korean too, they treated us totally differently. My Chinese friend said he went through that a lot when dealing with Koreans.

    Koreans are kind of like Americans in the 50′s. Socially moral (care about how they look to society, in other words) and well meaning, but sometimes a bit racist. However, unless we start seeing crosses burned on non-Koreans back yards, grand father poll taxes, blatantly racist exclusionary acts, then people just need to chill out a little and put things in the proper perspective. It took America and Canada hundreds of years to figure out how to deal with their racist shit. Koreas had decades because Korea wasn’t a place that any non-Korean wanted to go to until its economy got better, which has only been a few decades. Is it fair to believe that Korea can be what Western countries are today without having to go through some of the same shit that these same Western countries had to prod through and painfully figure out?

  • wangkon936

    Well, whether they like it or not, knowing English exposes you to Western civilization. That’s unavoidable and it’s happening. But English language instruction is not going away in Korea, so I guess the Koreans will just have to get use to it… or close itself off like 1890.

  • Bob Bobbs

    As a Canadian who was forced to sit through ten years of French for no apparent reason, I feel their pain. We all do. But having a second language is something you come to value later in life, and, for the Koreans, I guess it might as well be English. Water it down a little like we’ve done in BC, let the kids study something else like Mandarin or Spanish. It’s anathema to Eastern Canadians (and in the Korean context, to its American military and corporate masters), but times change.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    Because (a) we get self-deprecating humour and (b) a growing nose is associated with lying.

  • GerryBevers

    Que,

    It they had wanted to limit it to just the families of those involved, then they should have said “그들 가족 모두,” not 코쟁이 모두. The fact is that 코쟁이 모두 죽여 means exactly want it says (Kill all the big-nose Westerners). If that was not want they meant, then they misused their own language, which would not really surprise me. However, you cannot ignore the grammar and say they meant something else when you do not know for sure. Yours is just a silly attempt to try to tone down the disgusting lyrics of the song.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    Gerry, I didn’t mean to vote you down. I was trying to press the reply button.
    Like last time (I cannot even remember what it was about) you should ask the writer what he meant, instead of pretending to be proficient at a language which you are not.
    You know what it sounds like? It sounds like somebody who studies TOEFL or one of those things saying he knows what EMINEM’s lyrics actually mean better than how most English native speakers interpret it themselves.

  • GerryBevers

    I am proficient enough in Korean to know what the lyrics say, Yuna. They are not cryptic. And you know that I am right about the grammar. If you think I am wrong on the grammar, then explain how I am wrong.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    OK, again I avoid arguing with you because it’s like being sucked into a twilight zone of WTF grumpy old men, as well as the preposterous fact of arguing over some not very well-written inciting lyrics giving more cred than it deserves. BUT let’s just take the bait, and just reading what you posted as Korean lyrics, I would go with 에->의. Most Koreans pronounce 의 as 에 anyway.

    And you can add the 코쟁이 after 딸,며느리,애비. In fact, it makes no sense to separate the family members from the 코쟁이. The family members definitely denote relation to the line above.

    Also, I remember a long time ago you were complaining about a poem, or several poems in Korean, saying the grammar is wrong and the meaning is silly.
    Either you are not sufficient in grammar to understand/appreciate lyrics and poems or you are intentionally intellectually dishonest.

  • GerryBevers

    Even if we assume the writer meant 에 to be 의, that does not change the fact that he should have simply used 모두 after 딸,며느리,애비 instead of 코쟁이 모두. You are the one, Yuna, being intellectually dishonest.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    No, even using 의 as 에, it’s perfectly OK to put 모두 where he put it.
    Next thing we know you will be complaining about how the next doesn’t make sense:
    곰 세마리가 한집에 있어 엄마곰 아빠곰 애기곰,
    There are three bears in a house, mother bear father bear baby bear.
    saying the writer should have put Mother bear Father bear baby bear before the end of the sentence and not after.

  • GerryBevers

    Even if we assume the 에 meant 의, it would not change the fact that the writer should have simpy writer 모두 after 딸,며느리,애비, not 코쟁이 모두. You are the one being intellectually dishonest, Yuna, not me.

    And why is this the second time I have had to write this comment?

  • cm

    Que’s actually correct on this one, but does it really matter or change the fact that the lyrics were horrible?

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    In fact, going with the Goldilocks analogy. It’s perfectly OK to say 엄마 아빠 애기 곰 모두 돌아왔어요. to mean “all three bears have returned” and “three bears have all returned” interchangebly rather than “mother father baby” and then a sudden disconnect, and then “all the mammals of the family ursidae in the world have returned”.

  • GerryBevers

    Yuna, are you intentionally being dense, or are you really this bad at Korean grammar?

    The adverb 모두 is fine; it can follow a list. The problem is the noun that comes before 모두. If you don’t want 코쟁이 included, don’t put it in the list. Because then you get “코쟁이(를) 모두 죽여” (Kill all the big-nose Westerners).

    If you want to refer to just the family members, you have to write the sentence as follows:

    “… 딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 모두 죽여” (“Kill them all, …their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, fathers.”)
    I cannot believe I am having to explain this basic Korean grammar to someone who is supposed to be Korean.

    By the way, your stupid bear example is irrelevant to this issue.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole

    On the contrary. Bear example explains it.
    엄마 아빠 애기 곰 모두 돌아왔어 -mother father baby BEAR all returned i.e. mother bear, father bear, baby bear they all returned. And finally I wash my hands off of you. As usual, it’s shit on the face of the person who engages with shit.

  • GerryBevers

    Now you have changed the sentence, Yuna, as if no one would notice.

    That sentence is fine because 곰 was not mentioned previously. If it were mentioned previously, the sentence would be written as follows: 그 나쁜 곰의 엄마, 아빠, 애기 모두 돌아왔어.

  • yuna_at_marmotshole
  • http://www.facebook.com/larry.cor Larry Cor

    이라크 포로를 고문해 댄 씨발양년놈들과
    고문 하라고 시킨 개 씨발 양년놈들에
    딸래미 애미 며느리 애비 코쟁이 모두 죽여
    아주 천천히 죽여 고통스럽게 죽여

    I agree that this sentence/lyric doesn’t not explicitly include as an independent thought, ‘kill all the Big Noses’, but rather just add an insult to the relatives of the ‘Western Bitches who tortured’, who are to be ‘slowly killed’, by calling them ‘Big Noses’.

    But, a term like 포로를 고문해 댄 씨발양년놈들 and it’s translation ‘those f’ing Western bitches who tortured prisoners’ are both inherently messy and ambiguous. Either could be taken to mean ‘those individuals of the group who tortured’ or ‘that group, which tortured’. And using a racial/group epithet inherently implies a mindset which lumps members of the group together, rather than evaluating them as individuals. So I don’t agree with those who say this sentence/lyric is ‘clearly’ aimed as just those who tortured (and their families). It’s not a lack of knowledge of the Korean language to feel otherwise. It’s a subjective judgement.

    The ROK has made huge strides as a country in many areas, and its people have a lot to be proud of. But I find the level of nationalist sensitivity disturbing, especially its apparent tendency to grow as the generations pass. For example IME Koreans who lived under the Japanese occupation or those raised by that generation tend to view Japan with more equanimity than younger people often do, and there’s something wrong with that, just from the POV of the ROK’s *own* interests, IMHO. So this lyric touches on a larger issue, though the best summation of the lyric I’ve heard, ‘not anti-war but anti-human’ also comes from the ROK.

  • ig5959292ee

    zhduku

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