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Chinese pissed off after Korean kids let go after robbing convenience store

In case you haven’t seen it already:

On Thursday, 30 student tourists from South Korea walked into a Good Neighbor convenience store in Beijing’s Chaoyang District and walked out with 1,700 yuan’s worth of snacks, cigarettes, and alcohol — without paying.

The cashier, Ms. Huang, told local media, ”I was busy doing check-out, when I looked up, the shelves were empty, and goods were scattered and stepped on all over the floor.” She described the kids as tall males who were making a racket. “I was terribly scared at the time,” she said. “But now, after the fact, I’ve thought about it, and they’re all kids, so that’s that.”

But is that really that? After Ms. Huang called the cops, locals surrounded the students’ bus, not letting them leave.

A little mob justice never hurt anyone.

Read the rest on your own.

(HT to reader)

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • dinkus maximus

    Okay, now can we see the Korea Times version?

    I’d like to know who these kids were and why they were there. I misread 1700 as 170 RMB. Wow! That’s a few Kit Kat bars.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    That’s surprising. There may be plenty of things to complain about when it comes to Korean teens but thieving usually isn’t a problem. There’s a shop right by my school that’s usually manned by a very nearly blind guy during the day and it’s not a problem. He would never be able to run a family business like that in most parts of the world. The only time I’ve ever heard of my students stealing was a number of years ago and they got quite the beating – from two different teachers. GIs say it was a problem in the 60s and 70s but I’ve never known a case of street theft in my time here.

    I hope that if they’re caught the Chinese press can print their faces and everyone in Korea can pass the links around.

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    That’s surprising. There may be plenty of things to complain about when it comes to Korean teens but thieving usually isn’t a problem.

    But then, these “teens” are your “normal” Korean teens.

    TALL teenage males who specifically targeted the cigarettes and alcohol.

    1,700 Yuan ($272). $9 per student.

    I would like to know what kind of students they were and why they were in China.

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    MESSED that up – am trying again…..

    That’s surprising. There may be plenty of things to complain about when it comes to Korean teens but thieving usually isn’t a problem.

    But then, these “teens” aren’t your “normal” Korean teens.

    TALL teenage males who specifically targeted the cigarettes and alcohol.

    1,700 Yuan ($272). $9 per student.

    I would like to know what kind of students they were and why they were in China.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Jakgani,

    tall, but look whose describing them as such: an old CHINESE lady. Tom Cruise would be tall to her.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    “But then, these “teens” aren’t your “normal” Korean teens.

    TALL teenage males who specifically targeted the cigarettes and alcohol.”

    They’re still a pretty harmless breed. If she had screamed and ranted like a pissed off Korean harlmony they probably would have dropped everything and ran out.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    BTW, as a side thought, wouldn’t it be funny if they were from the same school whose students went whoring on a trip to China a few years ago?

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    average height korean male 5 8.5. for white american males its 5 10.5 korean men will catch up but then korea got lots of tall men already. and lots of threatened expats. just look at this new guy threatened by a kotean lawyer thousands of miles awsy. btw, the korean is six feet tall. how that grab you?

  • Yu Bum Suk

    That must be 5’8.5″ for Korean males under a certain age. If you factored in all the old people the average would have to be considerably lower.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    I will say this: it takes considerable cojones to commit such a crime in a foreign country.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    “I will say this: it takes considerable cojones to commit such a crime in a foreign country.”

    Maybe not if “everybody’s doing it” and merely doing it to “dirty” people who aren’t deserving of dignity. Still, I’m surprised that many Korean kids from a tour group would do something like that.

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    Yes, Pawi, we are so threatened. We are so threatened we produce and air, or outsource and air, documentaries which villify Korean men so that women will not date them, will run from them because they are AIDS infested or drug users, or both, or rapists, or all of it. We are so threatened we do this not once but pretty much every year. Because we are so threatened.

    Oh wait, that isn’t us doing it, that’s Korean men airing these videos about non-Korean men, and since this behavior doesnt look like it will end in the near future, its safe to assume there isn’t much of an uproar over it, and a lack of an uproar implies that those watching it approve of the message and want more.

    Threatened? Who is really threatened?

  • YangachiBastardo

    Yes, Pawi, we are so threatened. We are so threatened we produce and air, or outsource and air, documentaries which villify Korean men so that women will not date them, will run from them because they are AIDS infested or drug users, or both, or rapists, or all of it. We are so threatened we do this not once but pretty much every year. Because we are so threatened

    There’s no Western entertainment and cultural products vilfying Asians ????

    But then, these “teens” aren’t your “normal” Korean teens.

    TALL teenage males who specifically targeted the cigarettes and alcohol

    Well Jakgani you don’t seem to be the typical member of your lot either as you don’t seem to:

    a) indulge in cannibalism

    b) raping children

    c) you seem to possess a working, albeit partial, command of the English language

    Seriously man i realy hope one day we can cross our path and have 5 minutes to discuss your wonderful, unprovoked comment about my people selling their kids…til then have fun Australopithecus Afarensis

  • Anonymous_Joe

    @11 Yu Bum Suk, your point is well-taken. I believe in respect for just laws, and thou shalt not steal seems a particular no-brainer, particularly from those who are poorer and less fortunate.

    (On a side note, your interpretation fits in more with one of my major criticisms of Korea: Those higher in the Confucian order, despite the stated idealism, are far above and not accountable to those who are lower.)

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #13 YangachiBastardo: “There’s no Western entertainment and cultural products vilfying Asians ????”

    If there are such products and entertainment, the difference is that they are on the fringe and not part of mainstream news (cf: MBC) or depicted in the major newspapers (e.g. penis noses caricatures in the Chosun Ilbo). If such were to appear on NBC or the L.A. Times non-Asian America would vilify those media outlets. I must have blinked through the Korean outrage at such directed at foreigners.

    The rest of your post is filled with such obvious non-sequiters that they stand for themselves. If you find my dismissal too dismissive, I’ll walk you through whichever one you want.

  • YangachiBastardo

    Those higher in the Confucian order, despite the stated idealism, are far above and not accountable to those who are lowe

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiightttttt cos that doesn’t happen in Western societies especially in say how the war on drugs in the US of .

    The only reason why Federal prisons are filled with poor drug users is because they are the only people who dope their ass.

    Suburban professionals are of course very clean people, who adhere to the strictest Calvinist ethics and would never even think of powdering their nose.

  • YangachiBastardo

    especially in say how the war on drugs in the US of .

    especially in say how the war on drugs in the US of A is conducted

  • SalarymaninSeoul

    yangachi, are there? Would you point to a documentary on a major Western network that villifies Asians and directly accusses them of being what MBC accussed foreign men of being.

    I await your answer.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #16 YangachiBastardo: Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiightttttt cos that doesn’t happen in Western societies especially in say how the war on drugs in the US of (A is conducted)

    Another non-sequiter. How does the US’s war on drugs show that in Western societies those higher are not accountable to those lower?

  • Anonymous_Joe

    @18 SalarymininSeoul, I made a similar point in a post that is in the sandbox awaiting moderation.

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    yangachi, your comments to jak actually made me laugh out loud. very funny. btw, i do believe it was proven that aboriginies are not black but rather indian in origin. of course to me and you, they look black.

    yu bum suk, probably statistics from the latest generation.

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    salary, don’t hate the k man; he made your wife. don’t hate on korea. don’t be a creep. your kid would not be here were it not for korea. so, please, a creep do not become. do not become like this fw5 guy we got here now. you go visit his blog. a bunch of malcontents talking smack bout koreans non-stop. their two prime targets seem to be korean men and women. need i say more? nuts about k tang, hate k bang, sorry they ever kang’ed in korea. please do not become like them.

  • YangachiBastardo

    Would you point to a documentary on a major Western network that villifies Asians and directly accusses them of being what MBC accussed foreign men of being

    Countless movies and tv productions depicting Asians in America as people speaking broken English, living in mono-ethnic ghettos, starting mafia-type cartels devoted to prostitution and human trafficking don’t count ?

    How does the US’s war on drugs show that in Western societies those higher are not accountable to those lower?

    Are you serious ? When law enforcement is disproportionedly chasing after one (lower) socio-economic group instead of the others FOR THE SAME CRIME how can you even talk about accountability
    to the lower groups ?

    Listen i know Asia is not perfect, i know humans are not perfect, i know there’s lots of shit but also lots of good things in the Western world and in America specifically and i don’t wanna sound anti-anything but what i can’t really stand about American culture and Western cultures in general is her hypocrisy and her pretension of bringing upon the masses of the world some superior ethics, morals, phylosophy etc.

    I’m enormously grateful to America and the West for the marvelous science it produced in the last few centuries that allowed even my country to emancipate from abject poverty, that’s the only thing i’m interested in, the rest can truly fuck off.

    Now science is moving East, so i admire and i am interested in the East, that’s it.

    Fantasies of moral lessons are the domain of losers

  • YangachiBastardo

    If you find my dismissal too dismissive, I’ll walk you through whichever one you want

    That’s exactly what i was talking about.

    Listen Joe you seem a good-natured guy, much better behaved than myself so i’ll try to keep it civil: i don’t want your advice, nothing personal but i’m not interested in learning anything from you so there’s no need to point me out anything or walk me anywhere.

    Why ? I tend not to take advice from people coming from broken societies. I tend not for instance to listen to people coming from countries with a 100%+ debt-to-GDP ratio as their mind and vision are probably clouded by some welfarist dementia, seriously who wanna learn anything from somebody uncapable of balancing their checkbook ?

    When i want to learn anything i go to Singapore and talk to the locals

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #23 YangachiBastardo:

    Would you point to a documentary on a major Western network that villifies Asians and directly accusses them of being what MBC accussed foreign men of being

    Countless movies and tv productions depicting Asians in America as people speaking broken English, living in mono-ethnic ghettos, starting mafia-type cartels devoted to prostitution and human trafficking don’t count ?

    Not as documentaries and news stories they don’t.

    How does the US’s war on drugs show that in Western societies those higher are not accountable to those lower?

    Are you serious ? When law enforcement is disproportionedly chasing after one (lower) socio-economic group instead of the others FOR THE SAME CRIME how can you even talk about accountability
    to the lower groups ?

    You gather that one socio-economic group (the poorer and less educated) break laws that the poorer and less educated break, and from that you infer that the laws are enforced differently? Do you think that embezzlement and tax evasion are unduly prosecuted against those with access and the wealthy?

    Besides, I will make even clearer what I mean. In Korea, those higher in the Confucian order have overwhelming power, even so far as to disregard law, against those lower. Does anyone here not know personally someone who got screwed out of their paychecks or had their employer totally disregard labor law? How far do you think an employer gets with that in the U.S.? I’ve seen the bitch slap. It ain’t pretty.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #24 YangachiBastardo: “Listen Joe you seem a good-natured guy, much better behaved than myself…”

    Thank you for seeing that in me, and I know that it takes someone with decency to naturally find it in others. I will try to uphold to that standard. I know sometimes I can be biting in my commentary, but I try to stay focused on ideas rather than personalities.

    …so i’ll try to keep it civil: i don’t want your advice, nothing personal but i’m not interested in learning anything from you so there’s no need to point me out anything or walk me anywhere.

    Why ? I tend not to take advice from people coming from broken societies. I tend not for instance to listen to people coming from countries with a 100%+ debt-to-GDP ratio as their mind and vision are probably clouded by some welfarist dementia, seriously who wanna learn anything from somebody uncapable of balancing their checkbook ?

    So because my country, which has been on top for so long that history will indisputabley refer to the 20th century as the American Century while the 21st century’s sobriquet remains yet unwritten, is experiencing a momentary hiccup, its citizens have nothing to offer on an internet chat board, no less?

    Many people for the past 125 years have gone broke or worse betting against America. That 100% debt-to-GDP ratio is not so fearsome as it seems. Who does America owe that debt to? What did America incur that debt for?

  • Jieun K

    So because my country . . . . is experiencing a momentary hiccup

    I’m afraid it’s much closer to an inevitable decline—viz. entropy—than to a momentary hiccup.

    its citizens have nothing to offer on an internet chat board, no less?

    They’re more than welcome to, but it’d be nice if they got off their high horse.

    That 100% debt-to-GDP ratio is not so fearsome as it seems. . . . What did America incur that debt for?

    A British historian would say it’s an outgrowth of what he calls “imperial overstretch.” Gotta clean up the mess before it’s too late.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    @27 Jieun K, I’ve lived through statements like yours for over 30 years. I’ve heard them, seen them proved wrong, and then heard about the next big thing. Anyone remember Japan? How about the Soviet Union before that?

    I suppose someday someone will make the same statements and actually be proven right. I don’t see it soon, and I doubt in my reasonable lifetime.

    I think that the rest of the world is catching up, and I view that as a good thing rather than a sign of America’s demise.

    If you know that you are so right, go to the financial markets and short America. As I posted before, many have gone broke or worse betting against America.

  • Jieun K

    I don’t see it soon, and I doubt in my reasonable lifetime.

    Not sure how many more years you’ve still got left, but hopefully it won’t happen in your lifetime ’cause it’d be a sorry sight for you to see.

    If you know that you are so right . . . . many have gone broke or worse betting against America.

    Not an investor here. But guess what: Then is then. Now is now.

  • cm

    The local Chinese newspapers reported days later that this was a simple case of misunderstanding between the tour operator who couldn’t speak Chinese and the clerk. The kid tourist/students thought the tour operator would be paying for the items that they walked out with.

  • YangachiBastardo

    You gather that one socio-economic group (the poorer and less educated) break laws that the poorer and less educated break, and from that you infer that the laws are enforced differently? Do you think that embezzlement and tax evasion are unduly prosecuted against those with access and the wealthy?

    You are telling me the difference in incarceration rates for drug possession among the socio-economic spectrum even vaguely correlate with the effective difference in use among the same groups ? MMHHHH

    How about all the businesses hiring illegals and applying to them whatever labor conditions they deem fit ? During our English class in college i remember watching a 60 minutes episode called “Sweatshops in America”. Europe is full of sweatshops too, the third world is much closer to home than we imagine.

    Oh and the taxman is more often than not after the little guy dodging taxes to survive than the real frauds

    So because my country, which has been on top for so long that history will indisputabley refer to the 20th century as the American Century while the 21st century’s sobriquet remains yet unwritten, is experiencing a momentary hiccup, its citizens have nothing to offer on an internet chat board, no less?

    Sorry i am tired and cranky and i gotta leave for Manila tonight, so the smart-assholish side of my personality got the best of me :)

    Said so I AM betting against America and the West: i am leaving finally the West very soon for good to offer a decent future to my child. I will do everything in my power to make him drop both his Italian and American citizenship when he turns 18.

    I don’t want him to inherit 33k euros (and counting) of national debt from one side and 54k (and counting) $$ of national debt on the other side, especially considering the double taxation insanity America employs for expats

    Many people for the past 125 years have gone broke or worse betting against America. That 100% debt-to-GDP ratio is not so fearsome as it seems. Who does America owe that debt to?

    Actually the debt is all in dollars and, despite common stereotypes,not excessively owned by foreign investors.

    The low interest rates have been paid with a declining dollar though. Decline that is still continuing.

    So you ask me if i want to short America ? Well i never actually liked shorting that much, i prefer to take market arbitrage position and since the inception of 21st century the American stock market has underperformed most major indexes, on top of the dollar decline.

    If i still had my advisory business, i’d definitely short an S&P 500 ETF and go long a RTS ETF. Would i go long the ringgit against the dollar ? Fuck yeah.

    I tend not to invest in countries with a big trade deficit and current account deficit, they’re frauds. That includes many so called emerging economies (Turkey, Brazil, India etc.) and that’s what makes the USSR case completely different from China: the USSR has never been a serious threat due to their complete lack of competitiviness on the world markets, Japan never had the size and has no (increasingly scarce and precious) natural resources.

    What did America incur that debt for?

    BOTH corporate AND private welfare insanity…mind you i think the US is still in a better position than most Western countries: lower population density, abundant national resources and some flexibility and can-do spirit still left in the system will probably leave the country as the Kingdom of the Blind reigning champion

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    But then, these “teens” aren’t your “normal” Korean teens.

    TALL teenage males who specifically targeted the cigarettes and alcohol

    Well Jakgani you don’t seem to be the typical member of your lot either as you don’t seem to:

    a) indulge in cannibalism

    b) raping children

    c) you seem to possess a working, albeit partial, command of the English language

    Seriously man i realy hope one day we can cross our path and have 5 minutes to discuss your wonderful, unprovoked comment about my people selling their kids…til then have fun Australopithecus Afarensis

    YangachiBASTARDo….

    please do remind me where I said that “your” people sell their kids.

    besides, who is your people?

    btw – Aboriginal people have NEVER indulged in cannibalism,
    probably have raped children (same as “your people”) and why shouldn’t I possess a working, albeit partial, command of the English language – I am Australian after all.

    p.s. – I also speak Japanese (studied it in uni as a hobby) and German (my father is German and taught the language to me).

    pawi… I was going to write that I am 6ft 1″ and everyday when I step outside there are heaps of Korean middle and High school boys who are as tall or taller than me – but then I saw you sucking up to YangachiBASTARDo butt, so I won’t say it – keep on searching for your mommy.

  • YangachiBastardo

    I think that the rest of the world is catching up, and I view that as a good thing rather than a sign of America’s demise

    That is not gonna happen as productivity in some key elements of the system like food, energy and materials is not growing fast enough to guarantee everybody on earth a standard of living even comparable to the South of my country.

    What would happen if the whole of China, i mean 1.4 biln. people, had the same standard of living of 1980′s Koreans ?

    Somebody will grab, somebody will give

  • YangachiBastardo

    I don’t know Jakgani/Cheoto/YOTD etc etc. do i really have to retry that comment when you mentioned that ?

    You wanna be snarky, making fun of other people, learn how to take it as well:

    http://austhrutime.com/aboriginal_mortuary_rites_cannibalism.htm

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3510737.htm

    And i know perfectly where my mommy is, we’re mutually better off keeping a certain distance from each other

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    please do tell me when I said “your people” sold their children and WHO is your people? and why is pawi sucking your butt?

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    Your first LINK says this:

    The Australian Aborigines were not generally cannibals, in that they did not kill people to eat. Where cannibalism does occur it is in a ritual context, if the reports of early workers in the field are accurate. Burial cannibalism, in a number of forms, occurred fairly commonly in Aboriginal Australia. In parts of Queensland it occurred in connection with mummification, before the body was exposed on a platform (Elkin, 1954: 513), as occurred among the tribes of southwest of the Gulf of Carpentaria, and in the northern part of the Kimberleys, occasionally. In northeast South Australia, it was part of the interment ritual (see Elkin, 1637: 283-5). In the Liverpool River area of western Arnhem Land, only a small part of the body was eaten, but only by specified relatives.

    The Maung of Gilbert Island and the nearby mainland, have been reported to have occasionally cut up a corpse, though only specified kin were permitted to eat the flesh of the dead person. Inedible organs are placed in a hole and a fire was lit to destroy them. The heart liver and kidneys were placed in another hole and buried. A larger hole was dug where the flesh was cooked. The flesh is shared out among certain kin, though not those of the territorial group, the namanamaidj, of the deceased. Those eating the flesh were believed to gain strength from it. The hunting ability of men was believed to be enhanced by carrying around dried pieces of the flesh. The head was left on a pole to dry, after which it was carried around as a memento.

    A mother of a stillborn child or a child who died early, was said to eat the flesh of the child, in the expectation that it would make it easier for the spirit of the child to enter her body and be reborn. It has been suggested that the anointing of the bodies of mourners with exudates from decomposing bodies, as was practised in many parts of Australia, can be seen as being similar to cannibalism (Elkin, 1954: 313).

    Ritual cannibalism has been reported to be widespread in northwest central Queensland (Roth, 1897: 166), where a child’s body could be eaten by its parents and siblings. Not all of Roth’s accounts were well documented. An example he gives is the Kalkadoon, who were said to eat any corpse, even where the were visible signs of venereal disease (STDs). He did specify that he knew of no case where a person was killed with the intention of eating them. In north Queensland, on the Pennefather River, an early stage in cremation ceremony of a young man, the soles of the feet and the flesh from the front of the thighs are baked in the ashes. After being cut into small pieces. One or more of his sister’s sons would then eat them over a period of 2-3 months (Roth, 1907). Those eating these pieces are prohibited from speaking until they can identify the ‘murderer’, after which he can speak to reveal the name. The dead man’s fibula is used to make a death charm of bone needles. This charm can then be used by his sister’s son or his mother’s father’s brother’s son to avenge his death.

    In the Brisbane area, a native doctor singed the body hair from the body at a large fire, leaving the beard and head hair unburnt, while other members of the group sat around their own fires. 3 other native doctors dance toward the corpse, while each holds a stone knife in his mouth. If of a man, the corpse was placed face down on the ground, women were placed face up. The skin is removed as a single piece, including the fingers, toes, ears, etc. It is then spread on spears near a fire to dry. After the internal organs, including the entrails, had been removed, the body was then cut up and shared, and after roasting, was eaten, except for certain parts, that were destroyed in the fire. Some relatives, mother, widow or sister keep the collected bones. After placing the pelvis in a bag it is used to identify the ‘murderer’.(Roth, 1907: 398-401). The process is finalised by placing the skin and bones in a hollow tree.

    The explanations for these procedures are the participants don’t fear the dead person’s spirit, so can immediately dispose of the body. Secondly, the corpse is prevented from decomposing by the procedures followed.

    —————————————————————-

    sorry, but I don’t belong to those “Murri” people.

    My mothers family are “Koori” (Victorian aboriginal) – and are completely different to the “Murris” – even speak a different “aboriginal” language.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Well, as I posted, you could short America through so many financial markets, or others could. Money is smart, and money ain’t sprintin’ out of America.

    Perhaps, however, you think the world’s third largest country in land mass that sits on a wealth of natural resources while having most of that land mass in a temperate climate makes for a cold future? Maybe its that its best in the world universities that attract the world’s best scholars and talent will suddenly fail? Will America’s top technological advantages and military suddenly turn to rust and white elefphants? America’s infrastructure, certainly for its size, is the best in the world and its already built. American highways get me anywhere I need to go and back. All roads lead to Rome? Bah, all roads lead to my house. Would you include American satellites in its space infrastructure?. The American legal system, which I think is the most overlooked reason for its wealth, growth, and stability, protects private and minority (as in power) rights, and America has a great (not perfect in an idealistic sense) culture for business and personal rights. Where else do you want to do business? Do you think the population base, which is growing and a reasonable rate, and is sustainable by its land and resources will suddenly explode in some Malthusian nightmare? America has figured out well in advance of the rest of the world how to take people from all the world’s cultures and have them identify as Americans within a generation. Help me… err help yourself out here….

    The U.S. is protected by a sparsely populated, huge landmassed, friendly neighbor at the top, buffered by two oceans on the sides, and Mexico, which is Mexico and not a threat at the bottom. America can reach the world, while the world cannot reach America. Do you see America being taken over by a foreign power?

    The U.S. has advantages that the world handed to it. The dollar is the world’s reserve currency. The U.S. gets to print green pieces of paper that gets sent overseas and never comes back to the U.S. for redemption. Over half of U.S. currency exists in the ether, and if it ever does come back, the world just gave the U.S. an interest free loan (dollar bills don’t earn interest) that gets repaid with eroded buying power (called inflation). Remember I mentioned when I mentioned the Soviet Union and then Japan supplanting the U.S.? Well, after that everyone talked about the Euro and the European Union, and that didn’t happen either. I don’t have to be American to not bet against America. The rest of the world is not betting against America

    If you don’t have the stomach to put your money where your mouth is, at least put your mouth where your mouth is. Tell me more about America’s imminent decline.

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    and pawi….

    while you are saying trash about me on here…

    let me remind you that I thought you have been quite well behaved lately (until you started sucking Barstardos butt today) – and I never said anything BAD about the thieving Koreans in China,

    I simply said that are NOT your “usual teens”.

    18 & 19 are teenagers and since the lady said they were TALL – they probably are 18 & 19 year old Korean teens who just finished High school one week ago.

    Intoxicated people do things that they wouldn’t “normally” do – and after finishing High school – maybe it is their “schoolie partie” in China and maybe they were intoxicated when they went into the store.

    so, they did something wrong, hey – they might have an excuse.

    no need for you though, to go back to your old ways and start spewing shit up about people on this hole.

  • YangachiBastardo

    GROANS you’re playing one of your other identities, or you are seriously schizophrenic. You know perfecty what i mean by my people and you once said “Did you know Italians used to sell their kids”

    I replied “Your point?” and you said you had no point.

    you also mentioned once how Koreans have stinky armpits…which is ok, i like internet and real life fighting, it’s all good, we’re all adults, just don’t whine when (internet) punches go flying your way.

    I just think you’re a bit of a piece of shit so i like to taunt you around a bit. You do it too, we all do it to a certain degree here.

    PS

    You’re repeated thin-veiled references to gay sex are downright creepy (noting against gay sex, just not my cup of tea)

  • YangachiBastardo

    Joe, if you’re talking about me i made quite a bit of chips as a currency trader shorting the dollar since 2001, never believed in the euro and invested way more of my money and my ex clients money in higher return markets (without risking much, never believed in H-K H shares for instance).

    I’m a little in disbelief though over our 1950′s tirade…American infrastructures being top-notch ? ARE WE FUCKING KIDDING ????

    I am from Southern Europe and still i am shocked to see the status of American airports, American roads, American cell phone service, the sheer appalling quality of housing materials etc.

    The best legal system ?WHAT ??? Hidden taxes, demented bureaucracies, overlapping between different levels of Governments, a bloated prison system, welfare fraud running rampant etc.etc. if the American legal system is not dysfunctional i don’t know what it is.

    Dude i know a shithole, i grew up in a shithole…you guys are resembling one more and more, sorry.

    Still you have a point in regard to land mass, natural resources and miitary ight, you’re likely still better than Europe

  • Anonymous_Joe

    @40 YangachiBastardo, I posted that in response to Jieun K. This board had been dead for a bit, and after I had posted, I noticed many intervening posts.

    Still, don’t bet against America or its infrastructure. I remember reading (granted back in the ’80′s) that the large, but sparsely populated state of Montana had more paved roads than the Soviet Union. The U.S.’s highways and other infrastructure may not be rock solid judged by U.S. standards and by the congressmen who want funds for their districts, but compared to the rest of the world’s? OK, damned by faint praise, but you get the point.

    Also, how did you make money in currency arbitrage? I don’t speculate in currencies beyond keeping my money in their currency, which is de facto speculation. I would never speculate in currency because I think that all speculators get killed in the most competitive, almost textbook perfect market outside of an economics class’s whiteboard.

  • YangachiBastardo

    Also, how did you make money in currency arbitrage? I don’t speculate in currencies beyond keeping my money in their currency, which is de facto speculation. I would never speculate in currency because I think that all speculators get killed in the most competitive, almost textbook perfect market outside of an economics class’s whiteboard.

    Worked for a forex broker-dealer, when we got bought out by a larger institution (now failed) i was promoted to the prop desk.

    There are many ways to get currency exposure, outside of forex instruments: spot, forward, currency swaps not interest rate crrency swaps, options. There’s also a plethora of less liquid otc (pure shite if you ask me) and exchange traded and cleared instruments (mostly futures and options on futures).

    This is a decent basic intro to the whole thing:

    http://vimeo.com/31871992

    There are several ways to make (most likely loose) money with currencies. As you correctly pointed out owning ny kind of financial instrument denominated in a foreign currency is per se a currency bet.

    I have a small position in a EUR denominated mutual fund that invest in short term Government Asian debt. It is a nice way to eploit the EUR decline potential and pocket the interest rate differential.

    Basically it replicates a basic forex strategy

  • YangachiBastardo

    I would never speculate in currency because I think that all speculators get killed in the most competitive, almost textbook perfect market outside of an economics class’s whiteboard.

    It was easier as a sell-side before the algo era

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Definitely not for me. Anyone who speculates in currencies is betting against the collective wisdom and nearly perfect knowledge of the market as a whole. If they can’t see that, I usually explain it in terms of competing against major firms hedging in currencies 24 hours a day in London, NY, Tokyo…. I strongly believe that individuals stand no chance beyond dumb luck.

    BTW, I wouldn’t be in such a hurry to push your son to give up his Italian (that is European Union) and American citizenships. I think they are by far the two most valuable in the world.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    Oh, you posted that tedious half-baked comment in response to mine, huh.

    You don’t think verbosity equals cogency, do you? Get to the point, I haven’t got the time to muddle through you logic.

    And I get it, you as a proud citizen of the U.S. of A somehow wanna tell me it is alive and kicking. Tell you what, I’m not your enemy.

    If you don’t have the stomach to put your money where your mouth is

    And save that talk about going short or long or whatever for your investor friends. Told ya, I’m not one. We don’t have to always see things in monetary terms.

    at least put your mouth where your mouth is. Tell me more about America’s imminent decline.

    Haha. Keep riding that horse of yours.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #30 cm: The local Chinese newspapers reported days later that this was a simple case of misunderstanding between the tour operator who couldn’t speak Chinese and the clerk. The kid tourist/students thought the tour operator would be paying for the items that they walked out with.

    Sure. I’ll buy that everyone’ll will buy that. What 18 year old kid wouldn’t think that even if the tour operator were covering the costs that he wouldn’t have to pass it by the cashier clerk?

    I have no reason to think that the parents/tour operator/ whoever said, “here, we’ll pay for the stuff all RMB1,700 worth and toss in another RMB1700, which amounts to a total KRW20,000 per student, for your troubles and more than you make in a month. Happy, pappy? Is everything Okey, smokey?

  • Anonymous_Joe

    @45 Jieun K, you’ve posted your opinion that America is in imminent decline, but you haven’t posted any reasons to support your opinion. I posted (admittedly, in a blaze) the reasons I disagreed.

    All I’m saying is substantiate your opinion. Why do you think that America is in imminent decline?

  • Jieun K

    your opinion that America is in imminent decline

    If you go back to my first response, you’ll notice the descriptor is “inevitable,” not “imminent.” They’re two totally different adjectives.

    All I’m saying is substantiate your opinion.

    Look, it’s not like I’m the world’s first person to talk about America’s descent. This debate has been around awhile—for good reason. Maybe I could seriously attempt to make a case about America losing hegemony. But long posts tend to make readers (who are here for anything but a showy display of verbalism) bypass. Besides, I very much prefer an exchange of succinct commentary where more than two people weigh in. I suggest we wait for other commenters to come to the topic and have their say, if at all.

  • YangachiBastardo

    i meant that forex is spot forward, currency swaps and optionsbtw, some people include futures and options on futurestoo

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #48 Jieun K: If you go back to my first response, you’ll notice the descriptor is “inevitable,” not “imminent.” They’re two totally different adjectives.

    Noted. You are correct. I jumped the gun because you put inevitable in apposition to my referring to America “experiencing a momentary hiccup”, I went to imminent.

    Look, it’s not like I’m the world’s first person to talk about America’s descent.

    My point exactly. In my lifetime and as I’ve noted, I’ve heard the Soviet Union, Japan, the Euro and European Union, and now China. None of these has or will happen in my reasonable lifetime.

    Maybe I could seriously attempt to make a case about America losing hegemony.

    I believe that you think that you think you can. It is and has been a fashionable idea for my whole life (see U.S.S.R., Japan, Euro and European Union, and now China), but if you really think about, you probably can’t.

    But long posts tend to make readers (who are here for anything but a showy display of verbalism) bypass.

    Then use bullet points. My lengthy post wasn’t so much a showy display of verbalism as a bunch of bullet points strung together by a tawdry display of verbalism. Still, the post was basically bullet points.

    Besides, I very much prefer an exchange of succinct commentary where more than two people weigh in. I suggest we wait for other commenters to come to the topic and have their say, if at all.

    Reductio ad absurdum: if everyone waited before posting until another commenter weighed in, then no one would post on this topic. You can get the ball rolling by posting.

    ************************
    (I don’t mean to be tough on you, but you can look at this as an opportunity to learn. I do, and I will be happy if you could change my mind or materially alter my perception because I will have learned something.)

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    When you come across a Korean refusing to believe anything negative about Korea, you know what to do: Calmly disengage yourself and go about doing something else.

    I think I’ve come across an American version. And I know what to do.

  • Charles Tilly

    average height korean male 5 8.5. for white american males its 5 10.5 korean men will catch up but then korea got lots of tall men already.

    Whatever, motherfucker. Consider this: I see that for this year’s Thanksgiving Day parade, there will be a Hello Kitty balloon along with a Papa Smurf and Elf on the Shelf one. But I ain’t seeing or hearing about no 뽀로로 balloon.

    Let me break it down more simply: Hello Kitty but no 뽀로로.

    You failed motherfucker. Fucking failed.

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    ‘American airports, American roads, American cell phone service, the sheer appalling quality of housing materials etc.’

    i have to wonder whether anon joe actually lives here in the states. the above is all true. tired dirty airports, decline in quality of roads, and poor cell service. can i tell you? i estimate that i don’t have cell service anywhere from 10 to 15% of the time. hard to complain because we’re talking about momentary outages that last a minute or two but these things add up. when mamrmot got back to korea, he wrote that you could say what you want about the place but he was glad to be back in a place where coverage is consistent.

    i don’t know about permanent decline but the quality of life here HAS declined. if joe don’t know that, he’s living somewhere outside the states.

    jak, i ain’t sucking yangachi’s butt; i think he’s witty. you need to relax. can’t you see he’s playing you?

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    you feel threatened too, charles? 너까지?

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    this is vaguely related to china but here’s a link that looks at the metrics of the korean music industry. many of you say koreans always do illegal downloads but it seems korea is getting better at preventing piracy. interesting article.

    http://musically.com/2012/11/22/country-profile-south-korea/

  • Yu Bum Suk

    “The kid tourist/students thought the tour operator would be paying for the items that they walked out with.”

    So were they high school or uni students? HS students finishing this year can’t start drinking until 1 January 2013 according to the conventions currently in place in Korea. If a tour guide let them do it in China there would be some very pissed off parents.

  • http://globalasianculture.com Liz

    Stuff I learn from Robert’s blog:

    #567: Korean students are criminals!

  • Arghaeri

    Hey Liz, if you’re aspiring to be a chaebol head sometime, you gotta start early!!

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #51 Jieun K: Anonymous_Joe:

    When you come across a Korean refusing to believe anything negative about Korea, you know what to do: Calmly disengage yourself and go about doing something else.

    I think I’ve come across an American version. And I know what to do.

    You’ve come across an American version of someone who refuses to believe anything negative or otherwise that goes against observation and reason. You made a statement, and I asked you to support your statement because your unsupported statement went against my experience, observation, and reason, as I concretely supported with examples,.

    #45 Jieun K: Oh, you posted that tedious half-baked comment in response to mine, huh.

    Remember, here you called it “tedious and half-baked”:

    #48 Jieun K Look, it’s not like I’m the world’s first person to talk about America’s descent. This debate has been around awhile—for good reason. Maybe I could seriously attempt to make a case about America losing hegemony. But long posts tend to make readers (who are here for anything but a showy display of verbalism) bypass. Besides, I very much prefer an exchange of succinct commentary where more than two people weigh in. I suggest we wait for other commenters to come to the topic and have their say, if at all.

    …and within three posts it was a “showy display of verbalism.”

    Jieun K, that’s a cheap, unconvincing trick. You’ve pulled the “let’s let others participate” card and the “you’re an American on a high horse” card. Soon you will have the “you wouldn’t understand if I told you,” “I can’t explain it to you”, “it’s so obvious, and everyone knows it”, “you’re too stupid”, and “I’m too busy” cards. They’re all cheap. You know you’ve hit rock bottom if you start pointing out typos.

    You’ve written three posts explaining why you won’t post your reasons. Why don’t you just write three bullet points with reasons in your next post?

  • http://www.chinasmack.com/tag/shocking Jakgani

    Oh? he wants to play?

    you also mentioned once how Koreans have stinky armpits…which is ok, i like internet and real life fighting, it’s all good, we’re all adults, just don’t whine when (internet) punches go flying your way.

    I just think you’re a bit of a piece of shit so i like to taunt you around a bit. You do it too, we all do it to a certain degree here.

    Lets play then…..

    I will GIVE YOU 1,000,000won if you can show me where I said/wrote/typed/mentioned that Koreans have stinky armpits….

    Prove it and get paid!

  • Anonymous_Joe

    53 pawikirogii 石鵝: ‘American airports, American roads, American cell phone service, the sheer appalling quality of housing materials etc.’

    American airports? Are you talking about the oldest and most worn of the worn like LaGauardia because I think that you need to check virtually every other city’s.

    American roads? Stop it. The American road and highway system is the best maintained and most extensive in the world. If you don’t think so, America’s got a vicious breed called lawyers that sue the shit out of the deepest of deep pockets, municipalities with taxing authority.

    American cell phone service? I suppose if you cross parts of American deserts, but I’ve had spotty service in Korea than I had in the U.S. 10 years ago.

    The sheer quality of housing material? This is where you really lost it. The U.S. has something called building codes that are strict and strictly enforced. See the part about American lawyers because they’ll sue the shit out of contractors too.

    I know that it’s fashionable to cite the common wisdom and use it as an authoritative source, but I suggest you look for observable facts that back those assertions.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    As a responsible commenter and in the spirit of good will, I’d like to help bring our conversation to an end in an amicable manner.

    A foreigner (yours truly in this case) offering an unsolicited, critical opinion on a nation not his or her own is generally frowned upon and hardly well received. Americans are no exception when they’re on the receiving end.

    I think the topic is best to be discussed among you and your fellow Americans. I do not wish to go into details of my thought especially when the principal party (Americans) did not initiate the discussion and show no sign of interest.

    That said, it’s been not so bad an encounter. Cheers.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Jieun K, I can appreciate your desire to stay amicable, and I have no problem remaining amicable in the discussion of ideas. If you address or even attack my ideas rather than my nationality, I have no reason to take offense.

    #62 Jieun K: A foreigner (yours truly in this case) offering an unsolicited, critical opinion on a nation not his or her own is generally frowned upon and hardly well received. Americans are no exception when they’re on the receiving end.”

    Well, you offered an unsolicited opinion, without substantiation, that contradicted my supported opinion. All that I asked is that you support your opinion.

    I do not wish to go into details of my thought especially when the principal party (Americans) did not initiate the discussion and show no sign of interest.

    But you did interject your very strong and unequivocal opinion, and I for one have lots of interest. In fact, you posted citing and in responding to something I posted,

    #48 Jieun:

    (Anonymous_Joe wrote) “All I’m saying is substantiate your opinion.”

    Look, it’s not like I’m the world’s first person to talk about America’s descent. This debate has been around awhile—for good reason.

    I acknowledged that talk about America’s descent has been around for a long time, empirically refuted that talk, and then asked you for your reason, which you acknowledged as “for good reason.” I invited you to talk about you good reason.

    Jieun K, claiming to take the high road by ducking out of the fray after a drive by shooting (@27 “I’m afraid (America) is much closer to an inevitable decline—viz. entropy—than to a momentary hiccup. …it’d be nice if (Americans while posting on chat boards) got off their high horse.”) is really taking the low road.

    Your comments are nothing personal to me, and if you come up with valid reasons to support your thesis of America’s inevitable decline (other than the inevitable “big rip” at the demise of the universe, the sun’s inevitable expansion during its red giant phase that will engulf the earth, or “history teaches us that all great civilizations inevitably fall”), I will consider them. For yourself, can you come up with even a single convincing reason for your opinion?

    You should consider whether your statement was borne out of wishful thinking, hopeful schadenfreude, or simply something you heard and repeated without consideration. Look inside you for the reasons for your opinion because you haven’t shown they exist outside you.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    YOU WIN.

    U-S-A, still the top dog, the reigning champion. Hell yeah.

    Seriously, let me go now.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Jieun K,

    You see, that’s just another cheap shot and drive by. I never said, implied, or wrote anything like that. It’s cheap. Hell, I can do a better job supporting your opinion than you have.

    You can let yourself go. Come to terms with your strongly held, unshakable opinion that you can’t communicate a single reason for holding and appears to be nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.

  • Jieun K

    Man, you really sound like an American counterpart of a Korean having an unshakable belief in the greatness of the Korean nation and its people.

    Wishful thinking on my part, huh. You read what YB the Italian gentleman wrote in response to you, right? So there are at least two people.

    Before I go on let me say this, I’m not anti-American, you understand. On the contrary, consider me a friend of America. So think of it this way, this friend is worried about America’s decline, OK?

    Matter of fact, I got some free time this weekend, maybe we could talk about it at length and see how it’d go. But seriously your verbosity is a murder.

    So you wanna get into the mode?

  • Anonymous_Joe

    #66 Jieun: Man, you really sound like an American counterpart of a Korean having an unshakable belief in the greatness of the Korean nation and its people.

    Again, cheap. …in cometh the strawman.

    I would have made the same arguments even if I were Canadian. All the points I posted were factual. My country of birth does not change their truth value or their weight. Again, you wrote about the inevitable descent of America, I just wrote and substantiated “not in my lifetime.”

    Wishful thinking on my part, huh. You read what YB the Italian gentleman wrote in response to you, right? So there are at least two people.

    This is an easier variation to refute than your @48 “Look, it’s not like I’m the world’s first person to talk about America’s descent. This debate has been around awhile”

    …consider me a friend of America. So think of it this way, this friend is worried about America’s decline, OK?

    That’s nice. America wants friends in the world. Nonetheless, neither your amity nor enmity impact the truth value of your or my arguments.

    But seriously your verbosity is a murder.

    Write one bullet point in support of your opinion. I won’t have to keep writing verbose replies to your argumentative non-sequiters, and we can have mercy on bandwidth and your eyes.

  • Jieun K

    To refute the possibility of America’s decline—not demise, mind you—you simply listed:

    - “a wealth of natural resources in a temperate climate”
    - “its best in the world universities”
    - “top technological advantages and military”
    - “America’s infrastructure . . . the best in the world”
    - “American highways . . all roads lead to my house”
    - “American satellites in its space infrastructure”
    - “American legal system”
    - “culture for business and personal rights”
    - “take people from all the world . . . and have them identify as Americans”
    - “protected by a friendly neighbor at the top”
    - “buffered by two oceans on the sides”
    - “Mexico and not a threat at the bottom”
    - “America can reach the world”
    - “while the world cannot reach America”
    - “The dollar is the world’s reserve currency”

    Is that it? Make a broad generalization about the country’s social, political and economical capital, and it all disproves this idea of America’s decline?

    (Cont.)

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Good job. You’re finally writing something. I do suggest that you string together the bullet points for full context, but that’s ok.

    Is that it? Make a broad generalization about the country’s social, political and economical capital, and it all disproves this idea of America’s decline?

    Actually, if you look at my post in context, I wrote,

    @37, “Perhaps, however, you think the world’s third largest country in land mass that sits on a wealth of natural resources while having most of that land mass in a temperate climate makes for a cold future? Maybe its that its best in the world universities that attract the world’s best scholars and talent will suddenly fail? Will America’s top technological advantages and military suddenly turn to rust…”

    In effect, I asked for you to support your reasons for America’s “inevitable decline.” If it helps you, I will stipulate that I imply those are reasons that I think America will not inevitably decline in my lifetime. I understand that English is not your first language, but those are not broad generalizations and are specific enough for a blog post that that I wrote “admittedly in a blaze.”

    Also, the points I posted about America’s social, political, and economic capital and the points I posted about America’s geography, institutions, natural resources, and already existing infrastructure make a fertile ground for almost certain growth and hardly a place for inevitable decline.

    What’s left? Do you want to argue that immigration or declining moral and religious values will lead to America’s decline?

    My basic point has been that I’ve heard people prophesy America’s decline for decades. I’ve seen the clips of Khrushchev banging his shoe on a podium. I’ve heard Americans bemoan the stats that in 1947, the U.S. had 50% of the world’s GDP through today’s 22%. Everyone who talked about decline never gave any reasons for decline.

  • Jieun K

    The U.S. will not meet its demise in the forseeable future. Of course not. But “decline” (a downward movement) is a relative term and can manifest in myriad ways. But here is what you offered as a refutation:

    - “a wealth of natural resources in a temperate climate”
    Enter India and China in a similar environment, for example. How does America’s agricultural output compare to these countries? Is it faring any better ?

    - “its best in the world universities”
    What is the employment rate for Americans who graduated from the-best-in-the-world universities?

    - “top technological advantages and military”
    Remember the Vietnam War? Look at the Middle East now. America still can either lose or incure just more debt. This could very well prove one of the culprits of America’s decline.

    - “America’s infrastructure . . . the best in the world”
    How does one determine the best quality of the infrastructure? Good infrastructure can be found in other countries. Does America have a competitive advantage?

    - “American highways . . . all roads lead to my house”
    Enter the OECD members. Again, what kind of advantage do they provide?

    - “American satellites in its space infrastructure”
    America’s space asset requires an expenditure that can increasingly become burdensome. They already had a budget crisis. They are currently talking about a fiscal cliff. A momentary hiccup or sign of decline? We’ll see.

    - “American legal system”
    Uh huh. What about it? Any characteristics that set it apart?

    - “culture for business and personal rights”
    Is that somethinig unique to America and superior to other countries? How does it translate into anything?

    - “take people from all the world’s cultures and have them identify as Americans”
    So, take as many ethnicities and cultures as possible under its wings and achieve what?

    - “protected by a friendly neighbor at the top”
    - “buffered by two oceans on the sides”
    - “Mexico and not a threat at the bottom”
    - “America can reach the world”
    - “while the world cannot reach America”

    So America just can’t go into decline, right? Remember the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001? The one that triggered America into waging a series of ultimately unnecessary war on the Middle East and sustaining all the resulting debt?

    - “The dollar is the world’s reserve currency”
    Did that prevent a financial crisis in 2008? There’s already talk of the Chinese yuan taking the U.S. dollar’s place.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    What you keep offering are broad generalizations which are ineffectual in refuting something inevitable.

    “Envitable” means “don’t know when, but bound to happen.” It’s a fate no nation state has ever escaped so far.

  • Jieun K

    Please bring data to the table and no more generalizations.

  • Jieun K

    Take your time as much as you want and give us high-quality and reader-friendly comments with lots of meat instead of empty words.

  • JW

    Curious, what is the point of even mentioning “inevitable decline” if you don’t have the slightest clue or opinion as to the timeline? We’re all gonna be dead inevitably…gee thanks.

  • Jieun K

    I’m just talking about a scenario where the U.S. will sooner than later lose the No.1 spot and come down a notch or two.

  • mitchel-murray

    It’s good to see the death-metal meth-head YB back on the Marmot’s Hole. Congrats on finally moving to Korea and achieving your dream.

  • Jieun K

    Like you said, inevitability is really not a matter of dispute. One cannot refute it but someone thought he could.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    I am willing to concede defeat again. You be a winner. We can stop any minute.

  • Anonymous_Joe

    Jieun K, you’re doing better. Keep in mind, however, that in terms of logic, refuting my assertions (which you have not done) is not the same as supporting yours. Also you’re approach is nothing more than throwing as much spaghetti up against the wall and seeing what sticks.

    I’ll give you stats on your first one:

    - #70 Jieun K: <b?“a wealth of natural resources in a temperate climate”
    Enter India and China in a similar environment, for example. How does America’s agricultural output compare to these countries? Is it faring any better ?

    I know this from memory when I read the first (and seminal) MegaTrends. Even though I’m going from memory, I’ll put it in quotes because that’s how strongly I remember it. “In 1890 90% of Americans produced 100% of America’s food needs. In 1980, less than 3% of Americans produced 110% of America’s food needs.” What do you think those percentages are today?

    Now you asked me how does America’s agricultural production compare with India’s and China’s. Do you really not know the answer? Do you have any reason to suspect that what everyone simply accepts as the answer goes against your experience, learning, or reason?

    #72 Jieun: Please bring data to the table and no more generalizations.

    and

    #73 Jieun: Take your time as much as you want and give us high-quality and reader-friendly comments with lots of meat instead of empty words.

    You made a statement that went against my observable experience, learning, and reason.. If you see one of my assertions that goes against your observable experience, learning, or reason then shoot it down. You dig for the numbers yourself.

    #77 Jieun: Like you said, inevitability is really not a matter of dispute. One cannot refute it but someone thought he could.

    Like when I wrote,

    #63 Anonymous_Joe: …if you come up with valid reasons to support your thesis of America’s inevitable decline (other than the inevitable “big rip” at the demise of the universe, the sun’s inevitable expansion during its red giant phase that will engulf the earth, or “history teaches us that all great civilizations inevitably fall”), I will consider them. For yourself, can you come up with even a single convincing reason for your opinion?

    I had already conceded inevitable. I just opined not in my reasonable lifetime.

    #75 Jieun K: I’m just talking about a scenario where the U.S. will sooner than later lose the No.1 spot and come down a notch or two.

    …and I’m talking later rather than sooner. I called America’s recent bit a “momentary hiccup” and you countered @27 “I’m afraid (America) is much closer to an inevitable decline—viz. entropy…”

    All I really wrote is that “they” have been bemoaning America’s inevitable decline my whole life. The facts don’t support the claim now any more than they did then.

  • Jieun K

    Anonymous_Joe:

    My prediction was completely wrong. It’s definitely a momentary hiccup. Now I get it.

    Thanks.