≡ Menu

Christ, that’s a bad day at E-Mart

The pregnant Korean wife and son of a US diplomat were attacked by an autistic teen at Yeongdeungpo E-Mart on Wednesday.

And according to her, the staff just sat around and watched.

To make matters worse, the attacker’s family allegedly harassed the victim at the hospital:

The wife was transferred to Severance Hospital because she experienced labor pains. While receiving medication to relieve the pain, the attacker’s parents came to her ward and demanded that she not file a complaint against their son, saying he could be arrested.

“I had to call the U.S. Embassy in Seoul and have them contact the police to request that they evict the parents from my wife’s room, because the hospital failed to do so. Do victims in Korea have no protection from their attackers? Even at the hospital, the family of the attackers can come in at will and harassed the victim?” Townsend said.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    As an answer to the question: Victims in Korea have no protection from their attackers, other than that protection which the victims can supply themselves. Unless the attacker is a foreigner, third-party bystanders are pretty reluctant to get involved. Meanwhile, the police do not consider personal protection their job, even in cases where threats, attempts, and successful attacks have previously been made.

  • R. Elgin

    This closely mirrors other incidents I’ve been a party to. It is one of the more unpleasant problems with living here.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    As an example of official insensitivity to victims, it’s usual in the case of an assault, including sexual assault, for the police to pick up the attacker and the victim, bundle them both into the back seat of a (very small) police car, and drive them off to the station together.

  • R. Elgin

    I would pay more taxes for a more professional police force.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    Elgin, I’ve got your number: You would gladly approve me paying more taxes for [fill-in-the-blank].

  • jkitchstk

    # 3,
    “…for the police to pick up the attacker and the victim, bundle them both into the back seat of a (very small) police car, and drive them off to the station together.”

    …and when released attacks outside and next to or nearby the police station are common after the complaints/reports are documented.

  • dokdoforever

    I understand she was upset, but I question the wisdom of a 9-month pregnant woman chasing down a violent teenager.

    The Korean system – of charging the person in a fight who has inflicted more injury – also seems to be pretty effective at deterring fights. I don’t know how many aggressive verbal arguments in the street that I’ve witnessed here that have not escalated beyond slapping (between men), which I fully expected to result in blows and serious injury.

  • YangachiBastardo

    I think Elgin and Brendon nail it here: an efficient, stern and comprehensive law enforcement machine cost money, lots of it.

    How much we really want to spend for that ? Who should pay ?

    I personally think that not a small fraction of East Asia success is due to the fact they’re basically societies who can more or less, to a certain degree, self-discipline, without having to spend enormous amounts of money to prevent societal chaos

  • http://www.gordsellar.com gordsellar

    @7&8
    Hm, I don’t know, and of course my understanding of the law is second-hand, so perhaps Brendon can correct me if I’m wrong (despite my feeling that, yes, he should be paying more taxes for a better police force, as should we all), but…

    What I’ve seen time and time again over the years is that Koreans are much more scared of strangers than Westerners, mainly because (a) if the stranger does assault you, what can you do? if you fight back, you’ll get in trouble and may end up bearing more responsibility than your assailant and (b) if the stranger does assault you, there’s no knowing how far he or she will take things.

    Now, I’m sure my racial profile is part of why I’ve run into so many “mentally challenged” people with a violent urge: they’re attracted to apparent difference, and all that. And I’m not advocating people beating down autistic children over such events. (Rather, the “care worker” is who is to blame in this situation, for failing to remain close enough to pacify/restrain the boy when he did get out of line.)

    But there are also lots of cases where the assault is not explicable in terms of mental handicap or mental illness — when someone is just a violent prick who’s constantly gone about intimidating and hitting people and gotten away with it because normal, decent people in Korea know they’re in for it if they defend themselves. I have to wonder: if legal responsibility lay with whoever started the altercation (within reasonable limits), perhaps fewer of the assaults I’ve seen or narrowly escaped in public spaces would occur.

    Also, you guys are sort of ignoring the rampant numbers of cases where men assault women or children or anyone else vulnerable in Korean society. Which are a lot… and the cops don’t handle those very well either, from what I’ve seen. (A recent example in the news is here. Two women bleeding on the side of the road flagged down a cop and begged for help as two men were assaulting them. The cops said they were busy handling another case, but another car was coming from behind that would help them. It didn’t come. The women ended up in hospital with pretty bad injuries. Er, whoops?)

    The idea that a state without cops will self-police is really, really questionable. Where I live, I’ve never seen a single cop walking down the street; I have seen a lot of violence. It’s not just in my (admittedly really cruddy) neighborhood, though. A friend of mine who came to Korea a couple of years ago commented, within about three or four months of arriving in Seoul, that he’d never seen so much violence on the streets as during his few months in Seoul; it outweighed something like a quarter-century in Vancouver. So… yeah, I call bullshit on the idea that Korea’s especially effective at self-policing.

  • dww

    The Korean system – of charging the person in a fight who has inflicted more injury – also seems to be pretty effective at deterring fights.

    How is this more effective than charging the person who throws the first punch?

  • YangachiBastardo

    A friend of mine who came to Korea a couple of years ago commented, within about three or four months of arriving in Seoul, that he’d never seen so much violence on the streets as during his few months in Seoul; it outweighed something like a quarter-century in Vancouver. So… yeah, I call bullshit on the idea that Korea’s especially effective at self-policing

    With all the due respect i call bullshit on your friend claim…i never visited Vacouver (and considering the absurd cost of life i have very little desire to do so) but i highly doubt a city with such a high number of hard drugs users can be safer than Seoul. If it resembles any major European city, it is NOT safer than Korea.

    So you guys have seen lots of violence in Seoul, but violence comparing to what ? Your suburban hometown ? Kampala, Uganda ? Gary, Indiana ?

    Let’s try to compare oranges with oranges here: i highly doubt a ghetto in Seoul is anywhere dangerous as the equivalent in London, Rome, Toronto or Sydney

  • hamel

    Hi Gord, good to see you here. Thanks for your comment, which I do not doubt, but this:

    A friend of mine who came to Korea a couple of years ago commented, within about three or four months of arriving in Seoul, that he’d never seen so much violence on the streets as during his few months in Seoul; it outweighed something like a quarter-century in Vancouver.

    …this did not jibe with my experience of living in Korea at all. I regularly say to people that I actually feel safer here in Korea than I do in my home city. I haven’t seen much actual and serious person to person violence.

    Perhaps because of your wife’s job you come into direct and indirect contact with more violence and victims thereof than most of us do. I don’t know how to account for your friend’s experience, except to say that I don’t think it is representative.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Let’s try to compare oranges with oranges here: i highly doubt a ghetto in Seoul is anywhere dangerous as the equivalent in London, Rome, Toronto or Sydney

    It’s not. There’s a lot of low-level violence in Korea, but nothing I’d call dangerous or avoidable and hardly anything involving knives and guns. Quite possibly the safest country in the world (not counting traffic accidents).

  • hamel

    hoju_saram: back me up here. Hasn’t the last decade seen a rise in the number of “glassing” incidents happening in Aussie city pubs?

    ( a “glassing” is when someone takes to your face with a broken glass or bottle, usually after a wrong word is spoken, an elbow is jostled, or a look is poorly received)

  • cm

    I can speak for Vancouver, since I’m very familiar with that city and part of my highschool days were spent there and graduated from university there. It’s a very safe city, quite Asian-ized particularly with the influx of the Chinese. Of course there are parts of the city which are shady which you should avoid. But I don’t feel a drastic difference in terms of violence, with Seoul and Vancouver. I think everybody tend to exaggerate the safety problems.

  • jkitchstk

    # 12 hoju and # 13 hamel,
    Korean kids learn all about violence by witnessing it at home, school, and etc…then they copy that behavior later in life.
    S. Korea violent crime rate ‘at least twice as high as US’/”국내 폭력 발생건수 美 2배, 日 12배 이상”
    http://asiancorrespondent.com/85740/skorean-violent-crime-rate-exceeds-united-states/
    “The number of violent crimes in our country is now at least double the number in the United States and 12 times the number in Japan, a study has found.
    Park Dong-gyun, chairman of the Korean Association for Public Security Administration (한국치안행정학회), said in a conference at the National Police Agency’s great hall that “in 2010 there were 609.2 violent crimes per 10,000 people in our country, significantly more than the figures of 252.3 in the United States and 50.4 in Japan.”

  • hamel

    jkitchstk:

    Korean kids learn all about violence by witnessing it at home, school, and etc…then they copy that behavior later in life.

    Thanks for your reasoned, considered remarks.

  • jk6411

    If I had to choose, I would much rather be in a shady part of Seoul than a shady part of New York.

  • dokdoforever

    I’ve witnessed more aggressive, animated shouting public arguments in Korea than in the US, but more actual violence in inner city America. In terms of murder and assault, Korea has to be safer.

  • dokdoforever

    To answer dww’s question – in many conflicts, both sides may feel justified in resorting to violence against the other side, whether they are actually justified or not. The Korean system avoids that problem by making it clear that all use of physical violence will be penalized.

  • Flyingsword K

    Korean police are pretty much worthless, at least the uniformed ones. Love seeing people drive thru red lights right in front of them and the police do nothing…or scooters on the side walk etc etc…..

  • dww

    The Korean system avoids that problem by making it clear that all use of physical violence will be penalized.

    But what you said earlier is that the Korean system avoids the problem by punishing the person who does the most damage, which is not the same thing as what you are saying here. Not trying to harp on you or anything. I’m just not convinced that the current system we are talking about is effective at all or is in any way responsible for the lack of violent crime.

    I have beef with this law because it encourages people not to defend themselves. This all kind of reminds me of a situation I had living in Suwon about 3 years ago. Some crazy (and I mean batshit insane) man started screaming at me when I was walking home on a Sunday afternoon. I walked away from him and down the street and the guy started to throw LARGE ROCKS at me. Holy moly did I want to knock his teeth out, and if one of the rocks had hit me, that might have happened. Luckily I kept walking and he just stopped. One of the stranger moments of my life here in Korea. I’ve always wondered, if I would have tried to stop him (I mean “defend myself”), would I have ended up in jail? I still don’t know if that guy was mentally ill or just a world class asshole.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    hoju_saram: back me up here. Hasn’t the last decade seen a rise in the number of “glassing” incidents happening in Aussie city pubs?

    Apparently (2008). But what you never read about (not newsworthy) is that almost every other crime statistic (murder, armed robbery, violent crime) have been steadily declining for 10 years.

    I lived in Korea for 5 years and never once felt in any sort of danger, and I spent a lot of time wandering around pissed in the early hours of the morning. To be fair, I’m generally a happy drunk, always tried to be respectful to the locals, and stand at 6″2, which I guess is a fair deterrent. The westerners I knew who were on the receiving end of violence tended to be obnoxious. I was only ever mildly antagonised on a few occasions, and I’m pretty sure that was because I had a good looking Korean girl on my arm (now my wife). But I had the same issues (possibly worse) when I went out to the bar in Australia with her.

    Now if I was a young woman, I’d probably be singing a different tune. Domestic violence and/or violence against women seems to be pretty high in the ROK. I saw plenty of it about, often pretty blatant stuff in the street, and I’ve never seen that in the West.

    Still, on balance, I think even girls would feel safer wandering Seoul at night than any western city.

  • dokdoforever

    dww – I meant to write the most violence, not all violence. The system may not deter crazy people very well, but than, not many systems deter them very well. And we foreigners certainly do attract the crazy and drunk people.

    But to go back to your argument, the weakness is that the Korean system would encourage weaker parties to instigate fights, with the knowledge that they are protected from harm. I can see how this might fail to deter harassment. Overall though, I’d argue that detering serious violence is more important.

    As for the ‘worthless’ Korean police – I have to admit to ‘bending’ the rules a little when I drive here – like ignoring the one way sign near the alley where we lived when no one was around. Maybe people get away with more here. On the other hand, I think American police have too much authority. They’ll pull you over for some pretty minor infractions, like failing to completely stop at a red before turning. And the traffic court my wife had to go to in the US for a speeding ticket was a complete farce. The prosecutors were colluding with the judge, manipulating court procedures to their advantage. There was no defense representative, and defendants were never told that they had the right to contest the prosecution’s ‘offer,’ in the plea bargaining stage.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com setnaffa

    Read the article. The “autistic teen” (no age so I’m assuming 19) had already attacked another child five minutes earlier. The store is entirely at fault.

    The store should have dealt with the family at that point, asking them to shop elsewhere.

    I’d hire Brendan or one like him and own a substantial piece of the action for my injured child and fetus, pain and suffering, and everything else possible under Korean law… It’s an election year and I’d pay reporters to ask the candidates how they are planning to protect tourists, diplomats, and children from the lunatics running around attacking them…

    I’m sure the Hanky could turn this into an attack on LMB while another paper could blame the soft attitudes toward crime of the left…

    Such an opportunity to stir ALL of the pots and step back…

  • http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/ jefferyhodges

    Even Sweden isn’t safe anymore:

    “Rudolf Moilanen fell asleep at five o’clock in the morning on June 30 at Västerbo Mens bus station in Jordbro. He woke to slugs and kicks from three unknown men. After the beating, he was dragged into a wooded area where one of the men set fire to him.”

    I’ve read elsewhere that one of the men then kicked the eighteen-year-old Moilanen down a hillside. I wouldn’t expect this sort of violence in Korea. But I don’t expect it of Swedes, either, and perhaps with good reason, as I’ve also read elsewhere . . .

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    I’d hire Brendan or one like him and own a substantial piece of the action for my injured child and fetus, pain and suffering, and everything else possible under Korean law…

    You’d hire a corporate lawyer for your personal-injury case? Not the best idea.

  • hamel

    hoju:

    Now if I was a young woman, I’d probably be singing a different tune. Domestic violence and/or violence against women seems to be pretty high in the ROK. I saw plenty of it about, often pretty blatant stuff in the street, and I’ve never seen that in the West.

    Thanks for the reminder. We men do so often forget that women don’t always have the same experience of Korea as we do. Women are more likely to be harrassed or touched against their will, or sometimes worse.

  • Arghaeri

    How is this more effective than charging the person who throws the first punch?

    What counts as the first punch, a slap, a shove? Who’s word do you take as to who threw the punch? Establishing who got hurt most, much easier.

    Also, if first punch is the principle it may give a free hand to the second to do as much danage as possible, but in the korean case regardless both oarties will be keen to make sure little real physical damage is caused.

  • Arghaeri

    Let’s try to compare oranges with oranges here: i highly doubt a ghetto in Seoul is anywhere dangerous as the equivalent in London, Rome, Toronto or Sydney

    I’m with YG pn this one, I’ve seen more violence in my hometown department store during the christmas sales than I’ve seen in 15 years of korea, and half of what i’ve seen I started LOL :-)

  • Arghaeri

    ( a “glassing” is when someone takes to your face with a broken glass or bottle, usually after a wrong word is spoken, an elbow is jostled, or a look is poorly received)

    LOL I think that proves the point. feeling the need to explain something for a korean audience that is part of the common cultural heritage at home :-)

  • hamel

    And to think that I was once introduced to the gentle art of glassing in the movie Trainspotting, viewed at the Lotte World cinema in 1996!

  • Arghaeri

    I trust then thats you’ve not been introduced to the glasgie kiss, (glasgow kiss) an affectionate gesture that often immediately precedes a demonstration of glassing :-)

  • Arghaeri

    I think tradtional glasses are illegal now in bars back home, I think they have special shatter glass so no piece is big enough for use in a brawl.

  • hamel

    Arghaeri: a Glasgow kiss? Only in jest.

    I have heard that some cities are considering banning/have already banned use of glasses in city pubs or after a certain hour.

  • YangachiBastardo

    I have heard that some cities are considering banning/have already banned use of glasses in city pubs or after a certain hour

    They did in Italy in the late 80′s early 90′s, at the time of the rise of the rave mania, after a couple highly publicized strings of brutal murders around the club scene. We also installed metal detectors for a while and imposed a mildly enforced ban on alcohol sales after 2 a.m, after some kid, who was refused entry in a fancy club in Milan, returned with some heavy artillery, mowing down a couple of people

    (2 bouncers died i really don’t feel sorry for them, as Mao Tze Dong used to say, hit 1 person, educate 100)

  • YangachiBastardo

    I lived in Korea for 5 years and never once felt in any sort of danger, and I spent a lot of time wandering around pissed in the early hours of the morning

    Even Sweden isn’t safe anymore

    To be honest last sunday i woke up in the streets of Itaewon in a state of confusion. I don’t remember departing the club (i won’t tell which one cos i’m embarassed to death, truth to be told), i don’t remember anything.

    I woke up with a slightly blackened lower lip and a small bruise inbetween my left shoulder and my chest. I suspect i made a major ass out of myelf….anyway i checked and my phone was there, my wallet was there with all the contents: cards, money, etc. nothing was missing up to the last man won.

    Last time i did that (passing out thrashed in the streets) in Milan i got my belongings stolen.

    If i did the same around say around the Campo de Fiori area in stab city Rome, i suspect i wouldn’t be here talking now.

    And yes that was a wake-up call, i’ve been sober for a whole week (first time in years) and i’m planning to stay so

  • tinyflowers

    Meanwhile in America, mentally unstable white supremacist dresses up as batman and guns down a group of Sihks near the Empire State building. Wait, do I have that right? It’s hard to keep track these days.

    The way some of you go on about violence in Korea, you must have lived really sheltered lives back home, probably in some racially segregated cookie cutter suburbia. Welcome to the big city.

  • dww

    What counts as the first punch, a slap, a shove? Who’s word do you take as to who threw the punch? Establishing who got hurt most, much easier.

    Sure it’s easier to determine who got hurt more easily, but so what? I would rather the police lock up the person who attacked somebody than have the victim go to jail because he did more damage to his attacker.

    Also, if first punch is the principle it may give a free hand to the second to do as much danage as possible, but in the korean case regardless both oarties will be keen to make sure little real physical damage is caused.

    Nonsense. Do you seriously think that in a fit of anger or rage somebody is going to pull their punches to “make sure little real physical damage is caused” if and when the police get involved? I have seen a number of public fights in Korea, and I have never, ever seen anything like that. When somebody attacks another person, they go balls to wall.

  • Ex-Ex-Pat

    Most Americans are sheltered from violence. Unless you are involved in the drug trade or a member of a street gang, the chances that you will be the victim of a violent crime in America are minute.

    On the other hand, if you are a visible outsider in Korea, the chances are almost even money that you will have a run-in on the street with a drunk or nutcase or bully. True, these confrontations seldom result in trips to the E.R. But they are made worse by the fact that the attackers have a kind of smugness, a knowing smirk that whatever happens the bystanders and police will have their backs.

  • hamel

    dww:

    Nonsense. Do you seriously think that in a fit of anger or rage somebody is going to pull their punches to “make sure little real physical damage is caused” if and when the police get involved? I have seen a number of public fights in Korea, and I have never, ever seen anything like that. When somebody attacks another person, they go balls to wall.

    Wow it’s like you and I (and the people I know) are living in two different Koreas. The one I live in you see a lot of posturing, shouting and maybe shoving when a fight occurs, but you rarely (almost never) see someone going straight for a head shot, or smashing a soju bottle against the kerb to slice and dice his opponent.

    Ex-ex-pat:

    On the other hand, if you are a visible outsider in Korea, the chances are almost even money that you will have a run-in on the street with a drunk or nutcase or bully. True, these confrontations seldom result in trips to the E.R. But they are made worse by the fact that the attackers have a kind of smugness, a knowing smirk that whatever happens the bystanders and police will have their backs.

    Almost even money EVERY time you go out? Or over the course of a year? I think a time clause is needed to make specific sense out of your assertion.

    Certainly, if you were fifty-fifty every time you hit the streets in Korea that someone might hit you, then it is good that you are an ex-ex-pat. As I always say, if you are attracting that much trouble here, maybe the stars just aren’t aligned in your favor and it’s time to check out.

  • cm

    Asking for competence from Korean police and any Korean authorities that are in charge of the public services is like asking competence from Barney Fife.

    Read the front page news of Donga-Ilbo today. What interesting story do I see? A dead body inside a wrecked car was found by employees of a car demolition company, after the car which was in a serious car accident was towed in. The police and the emergency workers had pulled the driver of the car and the passenger in the front car, after the car was in a wreck. The two were still alive and were taken to hospital. But the police and the emergency workers failed to check the back seat where another man was trapped and left in the car. The wrecked car was towed into the garage where they found the dead body – 5 hours later. The family of the victim are furious that all the police had to do was to check the back seat, and that it was probable the victim was still alive at the time of the car being towed.

    What more can you say, when you read stories like this..

  • dokdoforever

    “Unless you are involved in the drug trade or a member of a street gang, the chances that you will be the victim of a violent crime in America are minute.”

    Nope. You just have to live, work, or go to school in a high crime community, which are easy to find in major urban American cities, where a small group of criminals makes life miserable for plenty of law abiding people. There’s nowhere in Korea remotely close to danger you face living in parts of urban America.

  • dokdoforever

    “Do you seriously think that in a fit of anger or rage somebody is going to pull their punches to “make sure little real physical damage is caused” if and when the police get involved?

    Sure, I’ve seen this happen plenty of times. I’ve seen taxi cab drivers after an accident slapping each other like girls precisely because they know they’ll be held liable if they inflict injurty.

  • dokdoforever

    Ex-Ex-Pat – I’ve had grad students of mine held up by gun point on their way home from a leading university in the Mid West that happens to be right next to a high crime neighborhood. I too experienced something similar as a high school student. Drive by shootings between gang members that hit innocent bystanders. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. People in S Korea don’t have to deal with that kind of stress, fortunately.

  • bumfromkorea

    @dokdoforever

    And where gangs are missing, there are plenty of methheads to go around, giggling while swinging a kitchen knife in the middle of the day.

  • Pingback: ROK Drop Linklets for August 26, 2012 | ROK Drop

  • dww

    Wow it’s like you and I (and the people I know) are living in two different Koreas. The one I live in you see a lot of posturing, shouting and maybe shoving when a fight occurs, but you rarely (almost never) see someone going straight for a head shot, or smashing a soju bottle against the kerb to slice and dice his opponent.

    You know what? After I typed my earlier response to Arghaeri I kind of thought about it and you’re (and he is) right, there is in fact a lot of posturing and screaming and slapping. I take back my “I have never seen that in Korea” comment. I have seen exactly what dokdofoever is talking about with the taxi drivers a few times, too.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com setnaffa

    @27, Brandon, you silly word-parser… I meant someone with years of success in the Korean legal profession; but now that you mention it, someone who knows how to make Corporations sit up, lay down, and roll over might be a good member of the team.

    It’s just a matter of “helping them find a way to protect the children.” And paying a sufficiently high enough price that no one else wants to play.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com setnaffa

    @26, there are an increasing number of “guest workers” and illegals in EVERY country in Europe who hail from such bastions of culture as Serbia, Tunisia, Turkey, Albania, and Sudan…

    The media never reports anything about their “demographics” if they are dark-skinned or possibly Muslim. I mean, look at the reaction to a few political cartoons…

  • http://www.biblegateway.com setnaffa

    BTW, the clash of cultures in Europe has been going on for well over 2,000 years, so don’t tell me who is better. Tell them.

    Let them prove it without taking away the four freedoms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_%28Norman_Rockwell%29).

    Then I’ll listen.

  • http://www.zenkimchi.com/FoodJournal ZenKimchi

    Interesting that a few weeks ago I witnessed two ajosshies getting into a fist/kick fight at my local E-Mart, and the staff were just as flaccid. Mentioned it on the most recent SeoulPodcast.

  • iMe

    A couple of years ago my home was burglarized. I live in a pretty decent neighborhood, mind yoy, yet it took the LAPD nine hours to show up. And it was a single cop with a notepad. When I bitched about his response time, he simply said that in LA, the cops have bigger priorities than burglaries. You know, like murders and shit.

  • Arghaeri

    Sure it’s easier to determine who got hurt more easily, but so what? I would rather the police lock up the person who attacked somebody than have the victim go to jail because he did more damage to his attacker.

    I don’t know, you ask the question “Why” then get upset when its answered. Weird.

    And strange enough it ain’t a dictatorship anymore so what you “would rather” ain’t really the point, its what the locals want tgat matters.

    pj

  • Arghaeri

    Nonsense. Do you seriously think that in a fit of anger or rage somebody is going to pull their punches to “make sure little real physical damage is caused” if and when the police get involved? I have seen a number of public fights in Korea, and I have never, ever seen anything like that. When somebody attacks another person, they go balls to wall.

    I don’t know what planet you live on but it sure ain’t Planet K. someone waves their arms at you, perhaps give yoy a little shove and then you go at it like a ballistic marine in an al queda camp. I think you need locking up if you think a litlle jostling entitles you to do that in response.

    It may surprise you ti know that very few countries suppprt the US theories of self defence, that if a guy waves a stick the police can pull out a 9mm and blast him out if existence in “self defence”

    How about the 99.5

  • Arghaeri

    How about all the “fights” you didn’t see because they’d already walked away!

  • Arghaeri

    By the way I happen to speak from experience being incolved in such altercation, with apparently from your point of view the right to kick a korean ajosshi into a pile of quivering broken bones, and apparently be allowed to get away scot free cos he put on me first, i.e not as a vicarious peeping tom out to see blood.