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Korean footballer denied bronze medal for Dokdo sign

Boy, this was seriously ill-advised, not to mention just plain classless (HT to my brother):

A South Korean soccer player was barred from receiving his bronze medal at the London Olympics on Saturday for displaying a sign with a political message after a victory over Japan in the third-place game.

The player, Park Jong-soo, held up a sign after South Korea’s 2-0 victory over Japan, claiming South Korean sovereignty over a set of barely inhabitable islands that are also claimed by Japan.

Mr. Park, a midfielder, played all 90 minutes of the game on Friday in Cardiff, Wales, then was photographed carrying a sign that read, “Dokdo is our territory.” The islands, called Dokdo in Korea and Takeshima in Japan, lie in an area of rich fishing grounds and natural gas deposits.

Park is now being investigated by the International Olympic Committee and FIFA.

A Korean Football Association official told the Dong-A Ilbo that it seems the “Dokdo ceremony” was not pre-planned. Rather, there were lots of folk in the stands with “Dokdo is our territory” signs in the stands (not cool in and of itself), and it appears Park got one of the signs from a spectator in the post-game excitement.

The thing people are wondering now is whether Park will lose his military service exemption if he is ultimately stripped of his medal. According to the Hanguk Gyeongje, the netizens are divided over the issue—some think he should keep his exemption, others think he should take responsibility for what he did. I haven’t checked out what’s being said on Twitter, but I’m guessing the opinions aren’t evenly split in this case.

This is not the first time Korean players/teams have engaged in this sort of thing during international sporting competitions—see here, here and here.

I don’t want to sound preachy, but I think the KOC, KFA or whoever needs to send a message that this is a) unacceptable, and b) internationally embarrassing. Stripping Park of his military service exemption might help.

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  • Chris

    poor bastard. Let that be a lesson though.

  • HSchmidt

    Even though Dokdo is Korean land, I advise Korean athletes to never hold up politically motivated signs in the Olympics or any major sports competitions.

    I know that Park Jong-woo did not pre-prepare for this because it was a Korean fan who gave the flag to him.

    Park Jong-woo should not be punished and should receive the bronze medal.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    If he has to serve, wouldn’t it be ironic if he was stationed on Dokdo?

  • Madar

    There needs to be some serious perspective invited into this Dokdo issue here in Korea. Sure, it is an issue of some importance, but it should not invite the ultra right, blood spilling, hate mongering, nationalism that it does here. They should really tone it down in the school system and in the media, especially as Korea has functional sovereignty over the islands. (I mean, really, teaching elementary school students that writing propaganda about killing boat loads of Japanese over the islands is praise worthy is too much, and I’ve personally seen examples of this, as well as in a post here on subway art.) I really think politicians on both sides of the East Sea use it as lightning rod to snake out of scandals, pushing the issue when the need arises, and as such don’t really want to settle it. The president’s last visit being during bribery allegations and/or the 4 rivers algae debacle, perhaps? But the fervor is invites in some people here may one day lead to a truly regrettable incident, not just an embarrassing one like above.

  • pawikirogi

    no punishment. he did not attend the ceremony. thats enough.

  • jkitchstk

    Considering this person’s gender and it wasn’t planned who cares about the embarrassment, we’re talking Japan here, let it go. If you punish the man, other Koreans could somehow be confused or it could cause second thoughts about fighting for Dokdo and we don’t want that to happen. Dokdo fighting!

  • Those weren’t bran muffins, Brainiac…

    Given the cheating that other nations do, the professional athletes involved, and so on…

    …Who gives a damn?

    It’s not the same Olympics that we used to respect…

  • raintree_leaf

    The best solution is to give Takeshima to China, Diaoyu Dao to Korea and Suyang reef to Japan.

  • cm

    They turned a beautiful victory into a shameful showmanship of bad winners. I’m in favor of stripping the bronze from the entire team, not just for Park Jong Soo. For far too long, stuff like this has gone on, when it involved Japanese and US teams playing Korea. There has to be a lesson learned somewhere to break this cycle of bringing international embarrassment to South Korea. This is also good Park Jong Soo. Since he’s such a patriot, I’m sure he doesn’t mind serving his country for two years.

    All I can do is sigh… and sigh again…

  • Kkachi

    I’m not surprised at Korea being bad winners. I still remember the baseball championship where, after a victory, the Koreans dug a small hole in the pitcher’s mound and planted a Korean flag like they had just taken Iwo Jima. (I don’t remember where the game was except that it wasn’t in Korea. ) That was equally classless. The only difference is that in this Olympic display is that they made it political.

    Korea needs more than slaps on the wrist to be shown that behavior like this is unacceptable.

  • gbnhj

    Park’s actions, even if unpremeditated, were insulting to the Japanese players who had just lost (and whose politics, incidentally, Park knew nothing about). It’s callous of him to have paraded that sign in the stadium right after Korea’s win. The guy lacks a sense of grace or humility in victory – kudos to the IOC for their decision.

  • r. Elgin

    To hell with the IOC. They are another pack of corrupt bums.

  • bumfromkorea

    I’m in favor of stripping the bronze from the entire team, not just for Park Jong Soo.

    Ladies and Gentlemen: The moment when the fair criticism of unsportsmanlike conduct turns to overreaction.

  • rap

    just plain poor sportsmanship. just play the game.

  • http://www.busanhaps.com Bobby McGill

    #3 Good call, let him serve on the rock.

  • Food for thoughts

    I think this is a right time to bring the attention of the international media to distorted nationalism at display in Korea-Japan sports matches. Japanese spectators have been openly expressing their support for Japan’s ultra-right wing movement by bringing large Japanese Nazi flags (旭日旗) and waving them during games against Korean teams. Just imagine what the Western media would react when a group of German supporters bring in a bunch of Swastika for a German national team against the Netherlands during an Olympic football match. Something equivalent to that has been happening pretty much for every match between the national teams of Korea and Japan for the last a few decades. Yesterday’s bronze medal match was NO EXCEPTION:
    http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/japan-players-line-up-for-the-national-anthem-during-the-news-photo/150122768

    The Westerners are generally ignorant of the meaning of these repulsive flags and the Asian Holocaust that went under the flag, and what kind of unspeakable mockery it is to the Korean people. I suggest that you imagine what Dutch and French people would feel
    to see 3rd Reich Swastika flying in their faces at an 21C Olympic soccer match.

    If the IOC would place any type of sanction on the Korean footballer for holding the cardboard message, the IOC should also impose a punishment on the Japanese Olympic organization for allowing Japanese supporters of waving at the Olympic Games the vary symbol of genocide and mass murders.

  • Arghaeri

    Ladies and Gentlemen: The moment when the fair criticism of unsportsmanlike conduct turns to overreaction.

    Actually, I’m not sure it is, it was a team event after all. As such if there is an infraction of the rules by a member of that team shouldn’t it be a team punishment. (only if provided for in the rules of course, retrospective invention of punishments should not be condoned.

  • Arghaeri

    How about a two point penalty to take into the qualifying rounds if the next world cup, that would seem appropriate.

  • JT

    Well, Japanese spectators waved Nazi flags at the same match and Japan NOC is getting away with it. What a shame.

  • pineforest

    Perfect Solution: Let him serve 2 years and 6 months on Takeshima.

  • pineforest

    Oh Wait! Pawi has spoken! He shall not be punished.

  • Chris

    ON the BBC news website it just states that he was barred from the ceremony and didn’t say anything about him being barred from having a medal. Might he still get his medal?

  • kaizenmx

    He’s still getting the medal but barred from the olympics.

    Wut now.

  • rrac

    strip him of his medal, but don’t make him spend 2 years in a foxhole for 2 minutes of stupidity

  • Avaast

    Right now, KBS is showing the most nationalistically-charged propaganda film for Dokdo I’ve ever witnessed – via 1박2일 (August 8th, for those of you in other time zones). It’s just finishing, so I can’t provide a link quite yet, but I’m sure it will pop up online soon. Synthesized national anthems in the background, Dokdo-themed rock music (presumably 김장훈), imported non Korean-speaking 2nd generation ethnic Koreans talking about how Dokdo is ‘in their hearts’, t shirts with parts of 독도는 우리땅 etc written on the back, honorary Dokdo citizen ID cards for everyone, people crying fervently and declaring their desire to come back…it’s quite the spectacle. And followed up with Chilsung cider’s Dokdo ads, just in case you didn’t get the message.

    I thought that these days KBS was trying not to be as much of an obvious mouthpiece for the government, but jeez!

  • jkitchstk

    “Rather, there were lots of folk in the stands with “Dokdo is our territory” signs in the stands…”

    Why were they allowed into the place with propaganda signs? Koreans should all be strip searched in the future before entering Olympic facilities. If found with propaganda, kick them out of the country. It’s simply too much to expect one Korean to tell another the difference between right and wrong. Force them all to compete in the Hunger Games.

  • Maximus2008

    Do you know Dokdo? I want to meet seagulls!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSBGVsoSH1c

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Chris: The IOC needs to decide on the matter following the investigation. Park might ultimately get his medal, but frankly, I doubt it—see Tommie Smith and John Carlos, 1968.

  • R. Elgin

    Speaking of the 1968 Olympics, how about the massacre in Mexico City days before the Olympics started. A good bit of weapons and munitions that killed all those women and children came from the CIA too, since the American Government was concerned with Mexicans disrupting the Olympics:

    http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_massacre

    http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/2/newsid_3548000/3548680.stm

    Politics was already present at the Olympics before Tommie Smith and John Carlos arrived there. Though the IOC denied that the massacre was connected to the Olympics, it is clear that the American Government at that time felt that it was. This occurred during the assassination of civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. and subsequent race riots across the nation, the assassination of presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, widespread demonstrations against the Vietnam War across American university and college campuses, and violent confrontations between police and anti-war protesters at the 1968 Democratic National Convention.

  • JT

    Japanese gymnasts wearing Nazi-flag themed uniforms for 2012 London Olympics:

    http://photo.sankei.jp.msn.com/highlight/data/2012/07/27/18london/

    For this Olympic games, the Japanese gymnastic teams wore uniforms designed after their Nazi flag and they still got away with it. This exemplifies two things; just how the Europe-oriented IOC lacks even the basic knowledge on Asian sentiment and history, and how deeply the Japanese society is controlled by the ultra-right wing ideology. It is as if a German gymnast shows up at the London Games wearing a Third Reich Swastika themed uniform.

    The IOC must investigate this atrocity immediately and ban any Japanese athletes from participating at an international competitions.

  • Pete

    Silly boy. I’m not sure how harsh his punishment should be, though I agree he must be punished. But I thought I’d mention this:

    I was at the Gwanghwamun Kyobo store today, and they’ve got a big display of all sorts of globes down that main aisle from the exit 3 entrance to the foreign books section. Guess what picture is atop many of the display cases? Yep, Park Jong-soo and his Dokdo sign…

  • Q

    Another reminder:

    During the Allies occupation of Japan, General Headquarters Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers promulgated SCAPIN No. 677 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/SCAPIN677):

    Japan is defined to include the four main islands of Japan (Hokkaido, Honshu, Kyushu and Shikoku) and the approximately 1,000 smaller adjacent islands, including the Tsushima Islands and the Ryukyu (Nansei) Islands north of 30° North Latitude (excluding Kuchinoshima Island); and excluding (a) Utsuryo (Ullung) Island, Liancourt Rocks (Take Island) and Quelpart (Saishu or Cheju) Island (b) the Ryukyu (Nansei) Islands south of 30° North Latitude (including Kuchinoshima Island), the Izu, Nanpo, Bonin (Ogasawara) and Volcano (Kazan or Iwo) Island Groups, and all the other outlying Pacific Islands [including the Daito (Ohigashi or Oagari) Island Group, and Parece Vela (Okinotori), Marcus (Minami-tori) and Ganges (Nakano-tori) Islands], and (c) the Kurile (Chishima) Islands, the Habomai (Hapomaze) Island Group (including Suisho, Yuri, Akiyuri, Shibotsu and Taraku Islands) and Shikotan Island.

    The SCAPIN has been revised twice: SCAPIN 841 issued on March 22, 1946 returning Izu and Nanpo Islands to Japan; the revised SCAPIN 677 dated December 5, 1951 returned the islands between 30-29 degree N. latitude and Kagoshima Ten Village Islands to Japanese sovereignty. However, no such directives, memoranda and/or orders were ever issued to change the separation of Dokdo. The territorial provisions in the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty merely conformed what had already become an accomplished fact. The separation of Dokdo by SCAPIN No. 677 — so far as it has not been changed specifically — should be acknowledged and respected as the accomplished facts which were actually carried into effect by the Peace Treaty. (Source: Professor Young K Kim, A Suggestion for an Impeccable logical integrity, Dec. 2011: http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=young_kim)

    San Francisco Peace Treaty pronounced that:

    Japan recognizes the validity of all acts and omissions done during the period of occupation under or in consequence of directives of the occupation authorities or authorized by Japanese law at that time, and will take no action subjecting Allied nationals to civil or criminal liability arising out of such acts or omissions.

    SF Peace Treaty does not contain any definition of Japanese territory. In other words, without recognizing SCAPIN directives, Japan owns no territory, even four main islands of Japan (Hokkaido, Honshu, Kyushu and Shikoku). SCAPIN directives excluded Dokdo from Japanese territory, and SF Peace Treaty ordered Japan to recognize the directive. That decision has not changed, even though some islands were returned to Japan later with subsequent directives.

  • Sean

    Let me get this straight. Japanese gymnasts at the London Games wore the Rising-Sun flag uniforms, considered in Asia as charming as the German Nazi flag, and they are not banned from the Games for the rest of their lives? They even attended their medal ceremony and received medals with smiles in their faces? What kind of a messed up double standard is the IOC running here?

    http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=663&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JPelNjiogAw4ZM:&imgrefurl=http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl%3Fa%3D20120807-00000026-reut-spo.view-000&docid=4KLdioL9aiTU8M&imgurl=http://amd.c.yimg.jp/amd/20120807-00000026-reut-000-2-view.jpg&w=290&h=450&ei=xaUnUMiqLKzWiALB84HQCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=555&vpy=230&dur=885&hovh=280&hovw=180&tx=113&ty=148&sig=105398254915493733904&page=4&tbnh=137&tbnw=88&start=63&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:63,i:352

  • alex

    Kchachi, you remember correctly. The Korean baseball team have a tradition of planting the flag after a victory. But this is selective memory. The Japanese team have the same tradition. They also plant the flag after a victory.

  • Peter K

    Instead of the Dokdo sign, if he carried “Seoul is our territory,” should he be punished?

    Japan illegally occupied Korea for 38 years and is now claiming that Dokdo is their territory. To Koreans this is the same as saying Seoul is a Japanese territory.

    What is so bad about saying the truth?

  • slim

    When the Blue House is also neck-deep in “seriously ill-advised, not to mention just plain classless” behavior, what else can we expect?

  • comfortable.chairs

    Robert – John Carlos and Tommie Smith kept their medals. In an interview, Carlos said that his mother has his medal.

    The argument that the Olympics is apolitical is crap. Countries boycotting the Olympics send a very strong political message (Moscow 1980, LA 1984). Violence sends a message (Mexico City 1968, Munich 1972, Atlanta 1996). That Hitler was told to congratulate all the athletes or none of them, and he chose to stand back – that sends a political message. Seoul used the ’88 Olympics to show the world that South Korea was an industrialized country, that it was part of the world after being poor, neglected, and abused from both inside and out. All of these are political statements. The Smith/Carlos/Norman situation of 1968 was, at the time, horrible and denounced- disrupting the apolitical spirit, stirring the pot – but what was it? Two black Americans standing up for themselves in a time of some of the greatest social change the US had seen, and an Australian in solidarity with them. No one today would dare to speak as harshly of these men as they did in ’68.

    Dokdo is not a civil rights issue, but neither was most of the crap that countries and individuals on behalf of countries have pulled. The guy waved a sign about a territorial dispute. He was banned from the ceremony. Give him his medal and let him go home knowing that he made an ass of himself and that history will not vindicate his childish action.

  • alex

    Maybe the teams from the old USSR and the USA and all other countries that tagged along with the boycotts should be first stripped of the medals then banned from future events.
    The IOC’s principles are malleable. Its only the Japanese, who’s feelings are hurt, and apparently some of us who live on a higher moral plane.
    The Olympics are not played in heaven. Let the kid get his deserved bronze.

  • johnhenry

    Cheating that other nations do? That’s a laugh riot. You do recall that South Korea had some people sent home for trying to throw matches, do you not? Last I heard, throwing a competition is cheating–and that’s according to the IOC.

    Next, the moron in question is now asserting that his running around with the big ol’ sign was simply an accident. I say someone should put that theory to the test at his next match. Drop a sign written in Korean that says, “Takashima is Japanese territory!” Care to bet how accidentally that sign will be carried around?

    Finally, the Olympics are just for bragging rights (peter-measuring contest) for the nations that send athletes. It is not a place for political statements. The rest of the team managed to not have an accident (sounds like they managed to not wet their pants, doesn’t it?) and so they should not be punished. This moron, on the other hand, ignored the rules. He should not be awarded a medal.

  • cm

    I have a better ideal. Dissolve the Olympics or change the formatting to get rid of the flags. It’s become nothing but a tool for world’s political agendas.

  • jkitchstk

    Be sure to click above for a picture in that NYT article of numbskull Park, Jong-soo holding up the sign for everyone to see…

    “The player, Park Jong-soo, held up a sign…claiming South Korean sovereignty over a set of barely inhabitable islands…”

    He he he, “inhabitable islands”

    “We are looking into this incident but we are taking it very seriously,” a South Korean Olympic official, John Moon, told Reuters.”

    Can Mr. John Moon or the KFA do anything other than give an excuse(“not pre-planned”) for Park, Jong-soo?

    “Park, Jong-soo is the first medalist to get in trouble for making a political statement at these Games,”

    Leave it to a Korean!

    # 1 USA leads the Gold medal count with 45, followed by 29-Silver and 29-Bronze for a total of 103. So DokdoTakeshima this!

  • Bendrix

    korea- and Japan-related blogs, news stories and websites seem to invariably be followed by rabid nationalist and racist Koreans and Japanese, and even many people who are not Korean or Japanese but who support one side over the other, i.e., japanophiles and to a lesser degree koreaphiles. why is this the case? you all seem to have a perverted obsession with race, which is all an indirect way of addressing racial superiority, the real issue buried under all these controversies. there are always a few sensible commenters but mostly the weirdos with their often passive aggressive insinuations. just curious: why? even the people who are neither Japanese nor Korean seem to have strong opinions and allegiances. will this continue until it’s finally proven who’s better, either by the result of a sports game or a full-scale genocide? and the justification for all the bickering more or less boils down to: well, they started it!

  • Q

    IOC should revoke medals of Japanese gymnasts who wore Asian Nazis imperial Japan flag fashion attire:

    http://view.heraldm.com/view.php?ud=20120812000423

    LINK: Photo

  • Ssamzi

    I see what Bendrix sees, too, although Koreaphiles pale in comparison to banzai Japanophile mouthpieces. It’s an endless circle. Sad.

  • Paulio

    Would love to have seen Korea’s reaction to a Japanese player running on field with a ‘Takeshima is ours’ banner after beating Korea.

    You get the picture?

  • Best

    To Q and all the other Korean trolls on web blogs like this all over the internet who seem obsessed with the Japanese Naval Military flag:

    That flag, which seems to really rile you fold up, is nowhere near the equivalent of a Nazi flag. That flag existed since the Meiji Era in Japan and is only a military flag similar to what the Iron Cross is. Whether or not military flags should be allowed in sports competions is a totally different matter, but please don’t spread your trolling lies claiming that Japanese fans display that flag only at games involving Korea. The fans wave that flag at almost all soccer matches regardless of the opponent.

  • alex

    Paulio, the Koreans have dealt with a lot more then petty symbolic gestures when it comes to the Japanese. Get it.
    The look on their faces will be f***k you. Get it.

  • kaizenmx

    In other news, Korea beat japan in gold medal count.

    Japan must feel ashamed of themselves about right now.

  • Taris

    The German gymnast team showing up at their game wearing Nazi flag attire. German football supporters show up at the match between Germany and the Netherlands waving Swastika wave them throughout the match. That is exactly what the Japanese people participating at the London Olympics did.

    Now, do you really get the picture? I don’t care if Japanese society is still controlled by pre-WWII Nazi ideology. Just don’t bring the trash to the 21th century Olympic Games.

  • kaizenmx

    Does anyone know why the jap imperial flags are allowed, while the swastikas are not allowed in the olympics?

    Someone is a big fan of imp. japs in the IOC.

  • kaizenmx

    I believe imp jap flag was banned in the Beijing Olympics and anyone japanese who brought the flag were immediately kicked out, and rightfully so.

  • TheStumbler

    All the chest thumping and protestations aside, as I understand it Dokdo currently IS part of Korea. Therefore, wouldn’t this “political display” be akin to an American athlete showing a sign saying “Texas is Ours” or “Hawai’i is Ours”? Still in poor taste, and perhaps that situation would still warrant the stripping of a medal, but just trying to put this in perspective.

  • Ssamzi

    I didn’t really stumble on the claim that Japanese fans use the military flag only against Koreans. The main question is whether it is insensitive to use the flag in sporting events especially when the flag reminds many Asians of the Imperialist era.

  • alex

    Best, no one is spreading lies. Who cares if the rising sun flag is from the meji era. It was the naval flag and the imperial army I believe would also used it from time to time. As a symbol, what matters is what it represents to others as well as to who display it. While the flag is not exclusively used by the right wing nationalist in Japan, for many Koreans and Chinese, the imperial flag is synonymous with their agenda. I don’t think this is news to the Japanese.

    I don’t know if China forbid the use of the flag during the Beijing Olympics but I know that they warned Japanese fans to not display the flag.

  • Chris

    If China and Korea find the Japanese gymnasts outfits so offensive all they need do is make a stink out of it in the Western press. Go to CNN and the BBC and et al. IF they don’t no one will know and no one will care. Although its a bit late now.

  • Maximus2008

    “In other news, Korea beat japan in gold medal count.
    Japan must feel ashamed of themselves about right now”

    Really? Do you really think Japan – as a country – cares that much about those stupid medals?

  • Maximus2008

    Regarding Dokdo/Takeshima/Liancourt: I think Korea should step up and agree to take the case to the int’l court. With that, all these problems could go away, and finally they would be able to reaffirm the ownership of the islet. Right?

  • alex

    Maximus, regarding does Japan care about medals, ask the mayor of Tokyo.

  • Gerry Bevers

    SomeguyinKorea wrote (#3):

    If he has to serve, wouldn’t it be ironic if he was stationed on Dokdo?

    Judging from his sign, Mr. Park would surely be tickled pink to get the opportunity to spend a year and a half guarding the beautiful island of Dokdo from Japanese invasion.

  • redwhitedude

    Maximus,
    if the Japanese didn’t care about medals why were they aiming to get 15 gold medals? I’d say it is somewhat disappointing in their medal count. A lot of near misses seeing that they racked up a lot of silver and bronze medals.

    Alex,
    I am wondering why the heck Tokyo is trying to host the games in 2020? Don’t they have serious health issues with the Fukushima mess that would scare a lot of people. Also given their economic situation why would they want to pluck down several Billions on games? Doesn’t make any sense.

    This incident by the athlete was pretty stupid, but why are we blowing this up and going off on dokdo?

  • Sean

    To Best and other Japanese ultra-right wingers polluting the internet and the Olympics:

    Who gives a rat’s ass to the Rising Sun flag’s origin dating back in a dupti-dupta period in Japan. Swastika’s origin dates back in 10,000 BC. What matters is the Nazi party and the subsequent German Third Reich used it as their symbol of their genocide and mess murder, just as the Japanese used the Rising Sun flag for theirs. No one in the world cares the fact that the prevailing ideology in Japan now is from the pre-WW2 Nazism. What shouldn’t be tolerated is that the shameless Japanese bringing the f***ing trash to the Olympics and making athletic attire out of it to mock other countries.

  • AED

    #43 when u post stuff like this, it undermines the real issues that need to be addressed. u’re doing korea a great disservice and the sad thing is u don’t even realize it.

    #52 TheStumbler, poor analgoy because unlike dokdo, hawaii and texas aren’t claimed by another nation

  • 깊은 구멍 속에

    It’s a shame the NY Times couldn’t be bothered to get the athlete’s name right. It’s 박종우 Not 박종수.

  • Guest

    Funny how I didn’t hear any complaints about Japanese “Nazi” flags until a Korean got in trouble.

  • Q

    Korea would never respond to the request for ICJ in the state that Korea has no Korean judge at the ICJ, while Japan has Mr. Owada as president of ICJ.

    China and Japan could fight over Senkaku island at the ICJ, because they have equal condition at the ICJ having judges of each nationalities. Let judges Xue Hanqin and Hisashi Owada at the ICJ have duels about Senkaku island their motherlands claim as their own. At least that would be fair condition for both countries.

  • teddy

    Funny no one raised any complaints about the Korean footballer until the Japanese right wing numbnuts made their NOC flip on a after-match picture written in Korean.

  • Q

    # 64,

    There have been complaints about that. For instance, Ki Seong-yong made a monkey face goal ceremony last year and it was aiming at the imperial Japan flags displayed by Japanese spectators at the stadium. This time it is more serious because Bronze medal might get revoked, that Koreans are reacting more actively.

  • kaizenmx

    Korea should support China for their claim of Senkaku islands, just to take these annoying japanese politicians off Korea’s back. Let them feel how Korea feels when another country claims their rightful territory.

    Oh yeah, It’s called Diaoyu islands, not senkaku.

    Oh, and support Russia for their righteous Kurile islands claim.

  • AED

    #66 more disinformation from u..

    correct me if i’m wrong but that flag excuse has been debunked. ki acted like a monkey that time because well, he is one.

  • alex

    Redwhitedude, didn’t know Tokyo had a bid for 2020. I was referring to the mayors recent disheartened observation about the gold medals in judo going to foreigners and not to the Japanese. As for Dokdo, of course it was a stupid move. The Korean obsession with the symbolism, I think is warranted, considering the history. But their passion is sometimes misplaced, this being a clear example. As for why it stokes the fire for some – I have no idea. Maybe it just a fun argument to have.

  • kaizenmx

    It has never been debunked. He acted like a monkey because that’s the way Korea expression on japan. 섬나라 원숭이들.

  • Ssamzi

    @kaizenmx
    Can you tone it down? Your nationalism is just too much. Whoa.

  • kaizenmx

    Just saying the truth.

  • AED

    yes i am fully aware of the racist slur. u sure ki isn’t a monkey himself? he sure looked like one

  • Q

    The imperial Japan flag at the S. Korea vs. Japan soccer game in 2011:

    http://livedoor.2.blogimg.jp/newskorea/imgs/c/a/ca2d0361.jpg

    This issue, along with other offensive Asian Nazis political activities legitimized in Japan, should have to be proposed to United Nations. S. Korea is not alone. Russia, China, Holland, and other Asian countries could join in drafting a resolution against Japan’s permitting Asian Nazis that compose 15% of total Japanese population (H/T: slim).

  • Maximus2008

    “Maximus, regarding does Japan care about medals, ask the mayor of Tokyo.”

    Maybe the politicians care for their dark reasons, but my question was “as a country”, i.e., do people care?

  • Casl de …

    By the way, you can see obviously that the non-japanese was holding the japanese navy flag.
    http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/dqnplus/imgs/5/c/5cf03fb1.jpg
    http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/dqnplus/imgs/8/d/8d9e4c2b.jpg

  • alex

    Maximus, I’m sure many do and many do not. Who cares. If your point is to show that more Koreans care than the Japanese, also who cares. So Koreans like many around the world like to win Olympic medals for their country. This isn’t odd behaviour.
    As opposed to Korea, Japanese nationalism has been suppressed by the US, post WW2, as they were a defeated nation. Just like Germany. It makes complete sense that a display of national pride is still a bit taboo. I’m not sure what kind of value judgements you are trying to answer by asking the question.

  • AED

    #74
    the picture you link to is actually from another match that doesn’t even involve korea.. but u already knew that, didnt u.. in any case, even if that offensive flag was at the match, u shouldn’t be making excuses for ki. that is, unless u like seeing a grown man make a fool of himself.

    i’m beginning to suspect that u aren’t even who u purport to be. then again, you most likely are, which is a damn shame.

  • redwhitedude

    Alex,
    You could say the same thing about Germany’s nationalism being suppressed. The problem with these two countries is that nationalism can lead into denial of atrocities. Korea doesn’t have a track record of committing atrocities like the Japanese and Germans have done to others. Any criticism of Japan and German whether justified or not would be viewed as bashing the country with nationalists.
    I think the Mayor was referring to the disappointment of the Judo squad that had previously won several gold medals in major international competition but it fell way short in the Olympics.
    Tokyo does intend to bid for the 2020 olympics but they’ve got a huge uphill battle especially with Fukushima disaster and questions of safety.

  • redwhitedude

    When it comes to emotional outburst, Koreans have been labeled the “italians of the east”. Granted sometimes they do it at the wrong time.

  • Arghaeri

    #52 TheStumbler, poor analgoy because unlike dokdo, hawaii and texas aren’t claimed by another nation

    Maybe poor analogy, but disingenuous response. given that Hawaii was an independent sovereign staye until annexed by the US so who else would there be.

  • R. Elgin

    . . . Korea should support China for their claim of Senkaku islands

    You really need to read the news. The PRC wants all if not most of what is labeled the “South China Sea”. Supporting illegal actions is not wisdom.

  • AED

    #80 point taken but i didn’t mean to come across as disingenous. believe it or not, i actually considered mentioning what u mention plus the fact that the southwest once belonged to mexico.. but i thought a curt response would be better and less patronizing in pointing out that it’s a poor analogy.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #16,

    You miss the obvious, which is that athletes are to be held to higher standards than the fans as they are under the authority of the IOC.

    That’s why someone who’s clearly on an extensive regimen of performance enhancing drugs can attend the games as a spectator but not as an athlete.

  • commander

    Park Jong-woo may have not made the most judicious decision when he grabbed that sign from the stands in the heat of the moment, but it will probably help him get laid, so even if he doesn’t get the bronze medal it wasn’t for naught.

  • Lliane

    @86 : Definitely, he can definitely touch a lot of Dokdo-sized boobies now.

  • Best

    Interesting to see comments like those made by kaizenmx (a.k.a. “koreansentry”) consisting of words (“jap this, jap that”) indicative of the intelligence level of the typical Korean Internet troll on a post that highlights a clear wrongdoing by one of their idiotic countrymen. Funny how he claims that so many ultra-right wing Japanese nationalists supposedly post on this blog, yet I have yet to one comment with the word, “gook”, which is the corresponding derogatory and offensive word to describe Koreans.

    That just speaks volumes about the comparative level of maturity and class between the two sides.

  • kaizenmx

    Nice accusation. Considering the fact that you say you’ve never encountered any racist ultra right wing japs in internet pretty much proves that you are another mouthpiece for right wing japan.

    Youtube is full of them. Try harder at finding the right wing japanese.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Stop writing “jap.”

    Thank you for your cooperation.

  • bumfromkorea

    This incident by the athlete was pretty stupid, but why are we blowing this up and going off on dokdo?

    redwhitedude gets it. The escalation began with the idiot Korean trolls, but what’s interesting is that, despite having professed numerous times that they’re idiots and unworthy of anyone’s time or attention, everyone here *engages* them, as if they are the be all and end all of Korea’s side of the argument (whatever that may be for that week). And suddenly, we come to this conclusion:

    That just speaks volumes about the comparative level of maturity and class between the two sides.

    Nice. Keep arguing with the intellectual equivalent of a kindergartner and keep on thinking that’s all the Korean side of the arguments has to offer. I’ve seen better strawman in a presidential debate, for fuck’s sake.

  • JoeUS

    I have repeatedly seen “but [insert country name]” defenses offered. These have been offered by Korean coaches (badminton), Korean nationalists (soccer, fencing), and non-Koreans supportive of Korea (soccer, fencing). These defenses need to stop. It is time for people to take responsibility for their actions. If one does something wrong, then that person should step up and apologize for their behavior. They should not start complaining like a five-year old, “They did it too.”

    Rise above.

  • JoeUS

    @Best,
    You seem to have confused kaizenmx with KoreanSentry. Kaizenmx is Kaizen on the Korean Sentry forums. KoreanSentry is Consoleman.

  • Veritas

    To those of you who are try to bring up the “Ohh the rising flag is like using a NAZI flag! It’s so evil that they should be punished too!” defense… uhh, grow up. That’s a rather horrible comeback you generally hear from a 5 year old who was just scolded by his or her mother. e.g. “But (insert name of another child) is doing it too!”… and it really isn’t a great defense, comeback, or an explanation.

    Park Jong-soo did something he shouldn’t have done at the Olympic games. Now he’s being condemned and possibly punished for that. You really shouldn’t try to “justify” or “defend” his action because – let’s face it – it’s not really justifiable.

  • Q

    #79,

    It is evident you are not able to read the Japanese captions on the picture. It says that rising sun flag at Asian Cup Japan vs. Korea.

  • http://www.asiapundits.com Asia Pundits

    One of our commentators @asiapundits has an interesting article on this topic over at the site – http://www.asiapundits.com/regions/korea/korean-banned-from-medal-ceremony-should-we-be-surprised/

  • Q

    John Carlos, 1968 Olympic U.S. Medalist protest against racism at the Olympic game:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/12/john_carlos_1968_olympic_us_medalist

  • JoeUS

    @Q,
    So, what? What follows from that? Nothing. It still does not justify the behavior of the Korean soccer player.

  • Q

    Korea could work with Russia and China and other WWII victim nations about Japanese politics tolerating Japanese Nazism.

    The US would not care much, so let them have their own highest moments at the Olympics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9fyPe4YoiE

  • Josh

    Dokdo is Korean 박종우 deserves a medal
    Is there a country that hates his country when they got a gold medal? Takeshima is false and Dokdo is true. Japan doesnt have a reason why Dokdo is their territory. I think most people think that Doko is Korean

  • Seth Gecko

    Lol @ Josh.

  • fanwarrior

    #96…wow..
    what’s interesting is that we can barely get through the first sentence without going on a grammatical train wreck
    chacha.com/question/is-it-a-sneaky-suspicion-or-a-sneaking-suspicion

    and it just gets worse after that. What a train wreck of an article. It reads like it was written by a 4 year old.

  • slim
  • kimchifrox

    Regarding the military service I don’t see why this would send a kind of signal ‘internationally’. Nobody outside Korea cares whether this guy will do his service or not.
    So, I would say he shouldn’t be forced to serve. Basically he won a medal but was just too ****** to get it. It’s anyway a waste of time. For a football player perhaps even more so. And who knows, maybe he will just eat more of all this ‘Dokdonun uri dadadadadang’ during his service, while only running up and down Halla mountain everyday twice… It doesn’t really make sense.

  • jk6411

    Here’s the final word on the whole islet dispute

    harhar! Hooray for Dokdo Times.

  • http://scroozle.com Scroozle

    And now we have a team of swimmers swimming to Dokdo:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19240600

  • Best

    When backed into a corner with no defense (idiot Korean Soccer player holding up the Tokdo sign), what’s the typical Korean reaction? Dig around and find some other non-related issue (Naval flags) and somehow magically redirect the focus of the issue from one of being accused of wrongdoing to that of, “Never mind our stupidity and lack of tact…look at what they are doing to us. Those old naval flags in the stands caused me to act like a retard!”

    The phrase, “the best defense is a strong offense” should be changed to, “when there is no defense, go on the offense” to fit the mindset of these Korean Internet trolls. They seem to lurk and congregate around any Japan, Taiwan, or China related website, blog, or YouTube video.

  • Lily

    This is ridiculous. First of all, the headline is wrong. The Korean footballer was told not to attend the medal ceremony. His case is still under investigation and no result was announced yet.

    Regarding the dispute of the island, would you go to a court to claim your wife is yours? It’s a totally nonsense Japanese claim. No need to respond.

    IOC should ban Japanese fans waving the rising sun flag which caused trouble in Beijing Olympic and many international matches. “During the 2008 Beijing Olympics, Japanese fans were warned not to fly the flag as it would cause offense and trouble with the Chinese.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag

    The Rising Sun flag was used by the Imperial Japanese military until the end of World War II and is considered offensive to countries that were victims of Japanese aggression, including China and Korea. The flag would be as offensive to some as a Nazi swastika to Jewish people or a rebel flag to blacks.

  • Seth Gecko

    Slim, thank you so much for that Dokdo Times article. Man, that was funny!

  • WangKon936

    My two cents? Politics don’t belong in the Olympics. Park Jong-soo should be stripped of his medal, perhaps with the possibility of appeal later on.

    I don’t know what the history of decisions are, but it should match the history of typical punishments. I know that Tommie Smith and John Carol were not stripped of their medals after displaying their “black pride” salute but their issues had more universal support.

    In 1980, Polish gold medalist pole vaulter Władysław Kozakiewicz showed an obscene “bras d’honneur” gesture to his Soviet audience but was not stripped of his medal.

    Given Olympic inconsistency in meting out punishment for political statements, I think an appeal at some point should be warranted.

  • CactusMcHarris

    Let me ask you Dokdoist this – if you want your message to go out to the world (and you’re doing your damnedest to do so, even winning an Olympic medal), why do you put your message in a language which only your people can read?.

    He should be given his medal, but also fined / demerited for being a boor, a stooge and unimaginative.

  • alex

    Oh its written in his language. How strange?

  • TheStumbler

    #62 #82 Actually, I thought Hawai’i was a particularly good example, precisely because there are claims against it. There is a fairly strong movement afoot by the native population to reclaim the islands from US control. I visited there for business regularly for over ten years, and it’s pretty hard to miss all the signs and news of this movement.

  • TheStumbler

    My main question is this – is it “polital” to make an obvious / truthful statement about your country? I mean, Dokdo has been part of modern Korea since the war, over 60 years. Had control of Dokdo continually flip-flopped back and forth over the years, or if instead he had said “North Korea is Ours”, then I can see the politics. But “Seoul is Ours”, or “The Mississippi River is Ours” seem pretty innocuous.

    Re. the claims on the islands – anyone can make a claim on anything at anytime. Returning to the Hawai’i example, because there’s a ongoing claim against the islands, does that make it politically-charged to say “My Country has 50 States”? By some of the logic I’ve read here, just the displaying the U.S. flag (showing 50 stars for the 50 states) be politically offensive.

    Bottom line, this kind of thing doesn’t belong in the Olympics. But I wonder if the responses I’m reading are a bit much, given the actual “offense” in question.

  • WangKon936

    “My main question is this – is it “polital” to make an obvious / truthful statement about your country?”

    Then why press your case if it is “obvious”? To keep bringing this out to the public makes your case weaker, not stronger.

  • Cyndy

    Dafuq? What is Dakesima? Do you think Japaneses can go to Dokdo without a passport? The answer is no. And you know why? Because it’s not their territory!! This is hilarious.. Dokdo is not even a disputed territory.. Is it really offence to say what’s mine is mine? I don’t think so.

  • Veritas

    112
    Eh, that’s a really horrible argument there. I suppose South Korea can argue that “Dokdo being part of South Korea is so obvious (to us) that it’s not really political” but you really should think about how dumb that sounds an argument. One thing you may want to consider is the fact that these kind of territorial dispute tends to be “obvious” for both claimants – which is exactly why it’s so hard to resolve them.

    Also, let’s face it – if it was a non-issue then he probably wouldn’t have done what he did. Of course, I suppose one can argue that it was more of a message towards his own people (South Koreans) rather than to the world because (as stated by CactusMcHarris) the message was written in Korean rather than in English (or some other language – maybe Esperanto or something) but that doesn’t really lessen the political nature of his action either.

  • Mcgd

    U all just make me laugh. If u are a foreigner leaving comments on what justifies and what not, it just all seem like a 5 year old trying to decide as a judge trying to see wrong from what is right not fully grasping all detail by detail, not bothering to see what exactly had happened between korea and japan 70 years ago. U all will never know and never understand/ will never care to understand until u have ur own family walk on thousands of tips of nails that made a korean pastor bleed to death by the japanese, than u might start to get the picture. If you have gotten all ur possessions stolen and became homeless like the japanese did to koreans, then you might see why koreans are trying their butt off to keep their land from them. Don’t even bother with all the load of what behavior serves in the olympics. To koreans, they will just say 너나 잘해. Before criticism, understanding comes first. Knowledge talks.

  • alex

    I think the intended audience for the sign was anyone who happen to be watching the game. This includes lots of Koreans, Japanese, and whatever other international audience who care to follow the the post game shenanigans of either team.
    No he may not have listened to the PR pundits in this blog who recommend that English is the proper language to use in such circumstances. But you have make do with what your fans bring to the show. Yes, he could have made his own sign in English but where was the ESL teacher when you can’t spell Dokdo in English. Or is it Tokdo? The English speaking world would surely know the difference.

  • alex

    I think having HANGUL in the text rather than English was better. Not more creative but looks more creative and authentic. Not mere pandering to the western audience. Of course the player had no choice in the matter and we should all feel glad he didn’t

  • Veritas

    116
    Er, if you’re trying to make a statement wouldn’t it be rather pointless if you’re only preaching to the choir? Not to mention that I’m not really sure writing something in Korean would make it seem more authentic than English.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #100,

    All right, by using your own logic it would acceptable for a Canadian athlete to hold up a sign saying, “Fuck Stephen Harper!” because his government’s policies are a direct threat to some of the most basic Canadian values? Of course not, because that would be a political statement.

    PS. Had he been smart, he would have waited until he had the medal around his neck to flash that sign.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #108,

    They suffered for that gesture afterwards, though.

    As for the Polish athlete…The crowd deserved it.

  • AED

    TheStumbler,
    an american holds up a ‘Hawaii is ours’ sign after his team plays a match against native hawaiians seeking sovereignty. this is your analogy fleshed out. do u see why it’s not applicable?

  • Creo69

    Very poor sportsmanship… and based on the fact that this was the second blatant display of poor sportsmanship by South Koreans during this Olympics South Koreans got what they deserved…as did the soccer play who committed the violation.

    Follow the rules or don’t play…this isn’t Korea where rules and laws are optional.

    And congrats to team USA. From now on people can feel free to refer to us as the people from that poor country that clean house at the Olympics :)

  • Q

    I like this man:

    IT IS rare for an individual to take on the system in Japan. There is a saying in this conformist society that the nail that stands up will always be hammered down. Shoichi Chibana, a supermarket owner from Okinawa, is one of these rare individuals. In 1987 he burnt a Japanese Rising Sun flag to commemorate a gruesome wartime tragedy, and since then the full weight of the system has borne down on him. (The Independent)

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #112,

    Not political? Then why do you think LMB went there? To enjoy the fresh air?

    Besides, ever try arguing against some of South Korea’s historical claims on the islands? That’s what Mr. Bevers did a few years back and he lost his job for it.

    My position on Dokdo is that since it’s in South Korea’s possession, it is South Korean territory. Everything else, like LMB recent visit (which conveniently coincides with his party being hit with another scandal), is just a very thick layer of BS spread to manipulate and cloud the judgment of the electorate.

  • AED

    the guy did it in the spur of the moment. what’s the point of talking about how the sign should have been written in english or that the guy should have been smarter and done it ont he podium, etc.

  • Q

    I thought Taiwanese love Japan, but they threw fish and burnt rising sun imperial Japanese flags before Japan’s embassy in Taipei (Wall Street Journal).

  • SomeguyinKorea

    “Regarding the dispute of the island, would you go to a court to claim your wife is yours? It’s a totally nonsense Japanese claim. No need to respond. ”

    Exactly why I think that South Koreans who get all riled up about Dokdo are suckers who are easily manipulated by their government (see my previous comment).

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #128,

    I’m not saying he should had done it on the podium, I’m saying that it was not the smartest move. You can’t always excuse stupidity by saying it was just a spur of the moment decision.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #129,

    Generational differences, according to my friend who once lived in Taiwan. The way he explained it, the older generation supposedly doesn’t dislike Japan (saved their asses from Communist China?), whereas the younger generation does.

  • alex

    Veritas, I protest. I most certainly am not preaching to your choir!

  • AED

    Someguyinkorea, my bad, i misworded you. we’re on the same page here. im just saying there’s no point in going off on the guy for not planning it through when we already know it was a spur of the moment thing.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Besides, ever try arguing against some of South Korea’s historical claims on the islands? That’s what Mr. Bevers did a few years back and he lost his job for it.

    I’m no longer so sure he did. Lose his job for questioning Korea’s claims to Dokdo, that is.

  • alex

    Veritas, what do you find inauthentic about a Korean guy holding up a protest sign in Korean?

  • commander

    You guys are losing sight of the fact that Park Jong-soo Jong-woo did not make the sign. He got it from a Korean fan in the audience. Ask the Korean fan why he wrote it in Korean. My guess is for the Korean audience back home. Everybody is over-analyzing a stupid spur-of-the-moment act by an excited athlete who was just celebrating victory and wasn’t thinking about the consequences. Let him get the appropriate punishment but let’s also keep it in perspective. It was a spontaneous act.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #135,

    Maybe, but I’m sure that the nutizens and the reporters didn’t help.

  • AED

    they’re just taking potshots at korea. u know, like koreans are so dumb they cant even do that right…

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #137,

    Nope, it was written in Korean because that’s the slogan…and the person who wrote it probably can’t write in French, which is the main official language of the Olympics. :)

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #139,

    Actually, I read somewhere that the most educated people are the easiest to brainwash…and the whole idea that Japan will ever attack South Korea, one of its largest trade partners, over a rock is brainwashing.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    …and just so you don’t misconstrue my argument: the matter of whom those rocks belong to is a fait accompli because South Korea, and nobody else, holds possession of it as it was given to them and taken by them after WW2.

  • commander

    I doubt many Koreans are afraid that Japan will attack Korea over Dokdo.

  • AED

    yes bro, u’re preaching to the choir. i agree about koreans being brainwashed but i was trying to get at the motive behind the ‘sign should be in english’ crowd

  • SomeguyinKorea

    As to why Japan claims the rocks, some point to its other territorial disputes or the fact the island mentality…I think it’s most because the Japanese political system is just fucked.

    Case in point, here’s the long list of Japanese Prime Ministers…Since 1989.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Japan#Prime_Ministers_during_the_Heisei_period_.281989-Present.29

    The terms ‘revolving door’ and ‘lame duck’ come to mind.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    correction: or the fact that the government is trying to appease the growing feeling of claustrophobia in such a small island nation, or the island mentality itself…

  • commander

    #140,

    I think the guy who made the sign couldn’t care less whether the French or the rest of the world could read his sign. Just look at his picture, he is just some dumb ajusshi that wanted to get on TV for his friends and relatives back home. No different from the other dumb fans in any other major sporting event who get themselves painted up or bring signs to get on TV.

  • JoeUS

    @TheStumbler,

    My main question is this – is it “polital” to make an obvious / truthful statement about your country?

    The sign was not a simple statement of fact. It was an expression of Korean sovereignty over the islets in the face of those who would claim otherwise. It is rather disingenuous to claim it as a simple statement of fact.

    @Mcgd,
    One does not need to understand the history between Korea and Japan to know the “but Japan . . .” line of argumentation for justifying the behavior of the player is a non-starter. It is something children use, but adults are expect to have grown beyond. In more technical terminology, logicians consider the argument to be an informal logical fallacy called tu quoque or an appeal to hypocrisy.

    @alex (#119),
    There is a standard by which Korean words and names are converted into the English alphabet. It is called the Revised Romanization of Korean. It is administered by the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism of South Korea. Following this system of romanization, 독도 should be written as Dokdo.

  • Veritas

    136
    If it was hand-written I don’t think the sign being written in English or Korean would really make much difference if you’re talking about authenticity.

  • Gerry Bevers

    Robert Koehler wrote (#135):

    I’m no longer so sure he did. Lose his job for questioning Korea’s claims to Dokdo, that is.

    So, Robert, you once thought I lost my job for questioning Korea’s claims to Dokdo, but are no longer sure? What changed your mind? Have you recently come across some new evidence to the contrary? Or do you just believe Koreans are above doing such things?

    At the link below you can find a screenshot of the Email I received from the English Department Head of the school I was employed at the time. Check it to see if you can find any clues to its being Photoshopped.

    Screenshot of the December 22, 2006 Email

  • rob

    gather all the proof you want gerry, it is quite apparent that this site isn’t all that kind to fact and evidence. it’s one of those “if you question, you are against.” type of atmospheres. caustic.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Have you recently come across some new evidence to the contrary?

    Testimony to the contrary, actually. But your email seems rather convincing.

  • Gerry Bevers

    Robert Koehler wrote (#152):

    Testimony to the contrary, actually. But your email seems rather convincing.

    Maybe you and Harry Reid are using the same source, Robert.

    Anyway, I would be interested to know who your source was and how he or she would know one way or the other.

    Again, the Korea Times newspaper reporter heard the recording of the Korean professor telling me that I was not rehired because “The Dokdo problem is too big.” If the Korean professor did not say that, why did she refuse the Korean reporter’s request for comment?

    Either the two Korean professors in the English Department lied to me or the Dean of Planning lied to the reporter. I think it was the Dean of Planning who lied because the Korean professor described to me in great detail what happened at the meeting. The reason she described it in great detail was that I was asking her detailed questions in order to get it all secretly on tape.

  • Inuwanko

    +If Koreans have a confidence that Dokdo is Korean territory, why do they always shout it everywhere? I’ve never seen them shouting ‘Seoul is Korean!’.
    +If they want to convince other people of their sovereignty, why do they keep refusing to go to the most appropriate place to do it(The ICJ in Hague)?
    +If they don’t like JPN’s gymnast’s uniform, why nobody claimed before the Olympic started or right after the game started at the latest?
    +They claim one Japanese supporter waved a rising-sun flag, but actually he was Caucasian, not Japanese.
    +They claim the flag is equivalent to Hakenkreuz for all Asians, but none of Asians except Koreans complained about it.

  • Inuwanko

    >#67 Q
    >>Ki Seong-yong made a monkey face goal ceremony last year and it was aiming at the imperial Japan flags displayed by Japanese spectators at the stadium.

    He claimed he saw the flags at first, but in fact there was no flag he claimed in the field that day. After his LIE was exposed, he began to claim he did it for racist Scottish supporters who’d been discriminating against him for being Asian while he played in Celtic.

  • Q

    Read the description in this captured imageof Japanese TV.

    Check out also Germany
    and Japan, similarity and difference
    .

  • TheStumbler

    AED @124. Yeah, I see your point.

  • slim

    Is Robert facing pressure in his day job this month to suck up to Korean nationalism? I hope it was worth opening the floodgates to a whole host of mouth-breathing Q clones with no capacity for reason. Soon, their polar-opposite Japanese soulmates from 2channel will join them and the Marmots Hole will have the same intellectual hygiene problems as blogs on and about China.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #147,

    Had he known how to write in Japanese, it’s quite possible that it would have been written as so.

  • Q

    slim, you bash Korea so much and only praise Japan. You are not much different from 2ch and rightwing asshat Japanese.

    Anyway, the rising Sun imperial Japan flag should be banished from any international events:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXKsRKoFfM&feature=player_embedded

  • Mcgd

    @JoeUS then do not try to understand. People like u will ever know why koreans are being protective of their land from japan, only japan. What koreas are doing is not childish, they don’t give a damn on what western thinks. Know this though, real adults know how to see both sides and they have better understanding than kids. They especially do not steal from anyone unless they are poor theives.

  • JoeUS

    @Mcgd,
    Do you even understand what my comment was about?

  • jkitchstk

    Korean politicians are threatening the IOC before their decision and don’t worry Korean lovers…your rule breaking hero will be exempt from the military even if the IOC doesn’t give him a bronze medal…
    They just can’t shut up until a decision is made, that would’ve been the smart thing to do aye? They just got to shoot their mouths off beforehand…
    “Lawmakers are also rallying behind Park. “If the IOC views Park’s act as being politically motivated, then it could be viewed as siding with Japan’s claim,” said Saenuri Party chairman Hwang Woo-yea. “Park should be given favorable treatment.” And fellow Saenuri lawmaker Chung Woo-taek added, “If the IOC strips Park of his bronze medal, then the government should protest.”

    ‘Footballer to Be Spared Military Service Despite IOC Probe’
    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/08/14/2012081400937.html

    Mcgd,
    “What koreas are doing is not childish”
    Adults stand up to what they do and accept the consequences, in this matter I’ve heard countless excuses such as “he can’t read” and but, but, but, look at the Japanese athletes, etc…or just like the badminton players “but, but, but, the Chinese players did it too.”

    Grow up!!!

    I agree with JoeUS, people from all over the world like sports, appreciate sportsmanship, competition, etc…they don’t need to know about war to watch and enjoy the Olympics or understand when poor sports break game rules like Korean badminton players and Park, Jong-woo

  • jkitchstk

    Does anyone still think this ain’t political? Ha ha ha!!!

  • jkitchstk

    The military exemption quote from link in #163,

    “Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism Choe Kwang-shik on Monday said Park “should not be stripped of his medal, but regardless of the IOC’s decision, his exemption from military service and other matters involving compensation are within the government’s control. We will consult with the Military Manpower Administration and other government agencies and consider the matter positively.”
    “Current laws stipulate exemptions from military service for athletes who come third place or higher in the Olympics or first in the Asian Games,” Choe said on TV Chosun. “I believe the MMA will positively consider Park’s situation, since his entire team came third in London,” Choe added.”

  • jkitchstk

    If Korean people want, the law will be changed to exempt Park, Jong-woo,
    “United Democratic Party lawmaker Ahn Min-seok said if the public desires, “we will enact a special law that still enables him to get compensation for his medal.” And UDP lawmaker Min Byoung-doo said, “If he is stripped of his medal, we will revise the military conscription law so that he can be compensated.”

  • Mcgd

    @ JoeUS & jkitchstk no matter what i say, u are not hearing me but only talking of morals and what is appropriate in international events. Grow up? Korea has already grown up from all the torture japan has put them through all those years and they have succeeded from 0 to top economically, spiritually and technically in a very short period of time. If u open up ur minds and see why the footballer did what he did in a world event, u will know just keeping quite from the world but korea is not all that appropriate and adultlike either, which is what japan is exactly doing. just because korea wants to show the world what japan has put korea through, that does not give you the right to judge and meddle as an outsider. Judges do not make a decision until they hear out both sides in detail.

  • http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com frogmouth

    Gerry Bevers Interview In 2008:

    Q- You were fired from university (most likely) because you posted your research on the Internet. How is your life now?

    A-“I was not really fired from my job at the university in Incheon; my contract was just not renewed, which could be considered the same thing. I now have a teaching job at another Korean university that I am very satisfied with. I enjoy living in Korea because Koreans are very friendly people, but the problem is that Koreans seem to think that anyone who disagrees with them on Dokdo (Takeshima) are anti-Korean. That is simply not true.

    http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=835#comment-33672

    Gerry have you seriously been hanging on to a screen saved image of this e-mail for four years? What the heck for?

    I can see Gerry in his basement plotting his revenge on Korea. Dancing around in a ninja outfit, giggling maniacally while wringing his hands.

    Mwwahahaha!! I’ll get you Korea!! You’ll rue the day you didn’t rehire Gerry Bevers, Gacheon University!!

  • JoeUS

    @Mcgd,
    My comments were addressing the logical validity of a specific argument being presented to defend Park’s actions. My comments were not addressing the question of whether or not Park’s actions are capable of being justified. More so, the specific argument which was addressed is a common argument used by children when they get in trouble. Allow me to demonstrate.

    Jenny hits Bobby. Bobby gets angry. Bobby hits Jenny. Bobby’s mom sees this. Bobby’s mom scolds Bobby. Bobby cries, “Jenny hit me first!” Bobby believes it was okay for him to hit Jenny because she hit him. This is not the case. Could Bobby be justified in hitting Jenny? Maybe. Was Bobby justified in hitting Jenny because she hit him? No. Bobby would need to find another reason to justify his actions.

    This is exactly the situation we see occurring with some Koreans and non-Koreans. They are claiming Park’s actions were justified because Japanese fans were waving offensive flags. That is not the case. The actions of the Japanese fans are irrelevant to Park’s actions. This line of reasoning commits the informal logical fallacy called tu quoque or appeal to hypocrisy. If Park’s actions can be justified, then they need to be justified for a different reason.

    The next time you wish to accuse me of being ignorant of something or not listening, please first make sure you actually understand what I am talking about.

  • WangKon936
  • eujin

    The great shame is that it’s taken a lot of the international attention from a great result and the fantastic job that Hong Myeong-bo has done with this team. That in itself should make Park Jong-woo very ashamed; hopefully he’s not just in it for the boobies.

    They should punish him somehow, but I think he should get his medal. Maybe make him do his military service, but dropping him from the medal ceremony was probably enough. Punishing the whole team and taking World Cup points off of them is just silly talk.

  • eujin

    The main thing they should do is make sure he doesn’t benefit from it personally. Fine him, and stop him from taking advertising endorsements related to rocks. Some sponsors probably love this sort of thing as it gains attention and much of it sympathetic. There’s no way we’d have seen 170+ comments if he’d just bowed politely to the crowd. But I hope to God that the Korean Football Association comes up with a scheme to stop it happening in the future. Otherwise they’re going to find the cost of policing matches against Japan going up a lot in the future.

  • slim

    Can’t one of the many English teachers here step up and volunteer to teach Q elementary reading comprehension? Yes, Q’s less-deserving than North Korean refugees (of not only an education, but also of oxygen), but at the same time, once he gets a clue, he might realize just how badly he fucks up even the simplest of exchanges, apologize and disappear. The scales will fall from his eyes.

  • slim

    I’m mostly with eujin here. Education on sportsmanship and prevention of future asshattery. Maybe withhold the medal, but let the military exemption stand and give him the prize money.

    I’m more worried at how the politicians and media are so stuck on stupid over this. Groundhog’s Day.

  • Feargal Sharkey

    I agree. He should serve his military obligation but at the same time let him be aware of the bad reputation that he has befallen the Korean national team (and sports in general) as a result of his foolhardy action. There is talk of now banning the entire Korean team from the 2016 Olympics.

  • Q

    The Japan Daily Press reported “Courting Controversy: Olympic Uniform resembled rising sun flag!”

    Designer Hiroko Koshino may be in trouble for the depiction of the rising sun on the Japanese athletes’ uniform.

    Observes are raising their brows over International Olympic Committee’s inaction towards the Japanese uniforms. The new uniforms were said to “symbolize the dynamism of the rising sun and the beauty of the brilliance at dawn.” Going into the history of the ‘rising sun’ flag, which is symbolic of Imperial Japan, the United Nations forces banned its use after Japan’s 1945 defeat.

    The rising sun with 16 rays of sunlight radiating around a red sun was first used in 1870s, when Japan was marching towards militarism. It was later adopted by the Japanese army and navy. A variant showing eight rays was a symbol for the military during the Pacific War in the 1940s. It was also known as the “flag of greater East Asia,” and conformed to the goal of “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.” For the Japanese in general, the rising sun flag is widely understood as a symbol of imperialism.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #163,

    Who listens to Korean politicians? They are as fake as a 3 dollar bill.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #168,

    Not renewing a contract is the typical MO for universities who want get rid of teachers they no longer want to be associated with, even in extreme cases. I’ve seen universities keep guys on the payroll who would show up to class drunk, or simply never show up, until their contracts were up.

  • fanwarrior

    #163 Adults would accept consequences in fair situations. If people are being treated differently in similar situations an adult wouldn’t sit there and accept biased treatment, that would make them a coward.

    The actions taken or not taken against others is very relevant here. The Chinese banned the rising sun during the olympics making it very clear that its use was offensive. Yet, the IOC allows that on players uniforms. It’s a military flag. one associated with atrocious war crimes and also seen as a political symbol by more than one nation making its use political in nature.

  • cm

    There will be no punishment of this player from the Korean Football Association. They’re trying hard as they can to extricate this player out of the predicament, and at the same time also please the Korean fans who probably overwhelmingly support what this player has done, and see nothing wrong with it. Somebody mentioned that they’re looking into banning the entire Korean football team from 2016, I’d like to see a link to that, if there is one. You know what? That may not be too terrible. That’s exactly the kind of thing that’s needed to wake this country up, to tell Koreans, how seriously people outside of Korea take these types of actions (in a very negative light).

  • alex

    cm,
    It does not seem that people outside of Korea take political actions at the olympics very seriously. At least the IOC doesn’t. Someone mentioned in this thread or in some other blog that no one has ever been stripped of their medal because of a political statement.
    Wiki list 60 individuals stripped of olympic medals. It doesn’t appear that any one of them were stripped of their medals for political reasons. Pretty much all are for use of banned substances. Or if you are Chinese, for being underage.
    If for some odd reason, the IOC decides to change their nominal policy in practice for the case of the Korean soccer player, the Koreans should protest the decision. And they will have every right to do so.
    Precedent should tell us the player and the team deserve to keep the medal in accordance with standard IOC practice.

  • JoeUS

    http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Olympics2012/News/S-Korea-attacks-biased-Games-20120814

    The sports minister and president of the KOC claim the Olympics were unfair towards Koreans. Is Korea ready to be a part of the international community?

  • alex

    JoeUS, I have no idea how your link illustrates your rhetorical ????

  • JoeUS

    @alex (#183),
    The question was not intended to be rhetorical. It was intended to encourage discussion.

    My personal perspective is Korea is clearly ready to be a member of the international community, but they also have a lot to learn about how to interact and engage with and within the community. I think the Games have demonstrates this. In short, there is no conspiracy against Korea.

  • cm

    alex, Olympic medals are practically worthless when they are tainted.

  • alex

    JoeUS,
    Korea IS a member of the international community. Heck they even have a couple members in the IOC. As a member of the international community, they do what all members do. They complain when controversial decisions go against them. In short, I don’t know what international community you speak of.

    cm,
    Of course you are entitled to your purist opinions. But again, the IOC nor the “people outside of Korea” are that pure.
    Besides, if you feel that way, what is all the fuss about revoking a “tainted” medal?

  • JoeUS

    @alex (#186),
    Please be more charitable in your readings. It’s obvious Korea is a part of the international community. I was not questioning whether Korea was part of the community. That would be asinine to do.

    It should be obvious to any educated individual that I was flouting the maxim of relevance. Why would someone ask about Korea’s readiness to be a part of the international community when they were already part of that community? I gave the response, “It was intended to encourage discussion.” I also went on to say, “They also have a lot to learn about how to interact and engage with and within the community.” If one puts these pieces together, then one should be easily capable of seeing that I was seeking to encourage discussion about Korea’s behavior in the international community.

  • alex

    JoeUS,
    Thanks for your reply, although I feel your explanation to be unnecessary. I see the comic absurdity of your question, and chose to respond accordingly.
    But more to the point, I still do not see why the article you link to warrants a genuine discussion about Korea’s behavior in the international community.

  • SomeguyinKorea

    #185,

    Pay close attention to the paragraph that mentions Carl Lewis.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10826926

  • Inuwanko

    >Q
    The photo on the left was shown as the proof that a rising-sun flag had been waved at “Asia Cup: Korea/Japan match” in a Japanese TV program (The TV station which aired the program is well known as very anti-Japan company among Japanese). And the right one is the original photo the left one was captured from, which was, in fact, taken at “the World Cup: Netherlands/Japan match”,not at the match against Korea. In short, this program intentionally misused that photo to condemn Japanese. That’s all.

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