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Clinton: Use ‘enforced sex slaves’ instead of ‘comfort women’

Hillary Clinton, US Secretary of State and—if the Republic Party keeps picking ‘em like they are, POTUS five years from now—reportedly said the term “enforced sex slaves” should be used instead of “comfort women.”

Anyway, Ye Olde Chosun, quoting a diplomatic source in Seoul, reported that Clinton was receiving recently a report on the history of Korea—Japan relations from a high-ranking State Department official. When the official used the term “comfort women,” Clinton said the term “comfort women” was mistaken, and that they were “enforced sex slaves.” The official then completed his or her report using the term “sex slaves” instead of comfort women.

The Chosun notes that the United States has avoided getting involved in historical issues between its two Asian allies, but while the comments were made behind closed doors, Clinton’s comments are a seeming critique of the Japanese government’s attitude in regards to Japanese wartime sex slave issue.

Marmot’s Note: Calm down, Gerry. Everything’s going to be OK. And besides, we don’t even know if she really said it.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • Gerry Bevers

    Man Rams 1-ton Truck into
    Entrance of Japanese Embassy in Seoul

    At 4:55 a.m. on July 9th, a 62-year-old man from Seongnam
    City, South Korea drove a 1-ton truck into the front entrance of the Japanese
    Embassy in Seoul. Attached to the truck was a sign that read, “Dokdo Is Our
    Land.” The man has been arrested.

    According to Seoul police, there were
    no injuries, but the front entrance of the embassy has been pushed in about one
    meter.

    The man told police that he was protesting a recent incident in
    which a Japanese man videotaped himself standing next to a “Comfort Women”
    memorial in Seoul with a stick that read, “Takeshima is Japanese Territory.”
    Takeshima is the Japanese name for Dokdo, a small group of rocky islets that is
    the subject of a territorial dispute between Japan and South Korea. South Korea
    has illegally occupied the islets since the 1950s.

    According to THIS Wall Street Journal blog article, police said
    the man had a hand-written note in his pocket that read as follows:

    “Driving a stake at the
    comfort woman’s statue is doomed to God’s wrath. If I die please cremate me and
    scatter my ashes in the waters near Dokdo.”

    “Comfort Women” was a euphemism used by both Koreans and Japanese to refer to
    prostitutes, especially prostitutes for the military. Japan provided comfort
    women for its troops during World War II, and South Korea provided them for
    Korean and UN troops during the Korean War and beyond. The Korean newspaper
    Dong-a Ilbo reported in an October 1959 article HERE that there were 261,089 “comfort women” working in Korea
    at the time the article was written and that 66% of them were infected with a
    venereal disease

  • http://twitter.com/fyconsulting slickchick

    You say right! Hillary Clinton, Thank you~~~

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Korea 1 Japanese revisionist 0.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    But how did they become prostitutes? Did they volunteer or were they deceived? Also comfort women is generally understood to refer to women who were “recruited” for the Japanese war effort. That’s why Clinton is referring them as enforced sex slaves.

    The prostitution post 1945 is a different problem.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Since there are already some detractors on this comfort women or rather enforced sex slave issue I thought I might bring this up especially since Bevers seems to imply that Korean women prostituted themselves after 1945 therefore the Japanese cannot be held responsible because Korean women have loose morals or conducted themselves as prostitutes even without the Japanese.

    Read up on the Recreation Amusement Association that was set up as soon as the US occupied Japan. It was set up by the Japanese Home Ministry.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation_and_Amusement_Association

  • Q

    The sexual crimes of Japanese added its culpability by their racism targeting Korean women.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002632874640 Yos Masu

    It ‘s obvious but
    ● American wartime comfort women.
    ● rape in Vietnam in South Korea.
    ● comfort stations of all countries was held in the past war.
    Should denounce all.

  • disqus_q5Vc1UWzPV

    Sexual crimes of imperial Japan added its culpability by racism targeting Korean women.  Racist japornophiles would not admit it.

  • Gerry Bevers

    The term “comfort women” was used by both Japanese and Koreans to refer to prostitutes for military troops. After the Japanese left Korea in 1945, Koreans set up their own “Comfort Woman” system for Korean and UN soldiers. Yes, the Koreans also referred to the women as “comfort women.” If you read old Korean newspaper articles from the 1950s and 1960s, you will see the term used quite frequently.

    When I was in the US navy in Korea in the late 1970s, I learned that many of the prostitutes in Korea then were first lured from the countryside with promises of good-paying waitress jobs. The pimps immediately provided the girls with furnished apartments that involved a large loan with interest so high that the girls could never pay it off with their waitress salaries. Since the girls could not declare bankruptcy or run away from their loans back then, they were forced to prostitute themselves.

    Some Korean pimps even in the 1980s would hang out at train stations in Seoul and kidnap naive women coming from the countryside. After the girls got off the trains, I heard the pimps would lure the women to places nearby where they were repeatedly raped and beaten into submission. That is what one woman told me happened to her and to others she knew.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    If that’s your rationale I guess the British should be excused for importing Opium into China since the chinese are also involved in drug smuggling and consumption. The Mexicans and other latin americans should also be excused for smuggling drugs into the US since US consumes and also distributes drugs. Sex tourist in  SE asia should be excused since the locals are also complicit in trafficking of people and operating as pimps as well. 

    I’ve certainly heard of criminal activity such as kidnapping of women back in the 80s. People would tell girls not go walk around alone especially in the dark. But that is a different issue. If you don’t like a country or certain aspects of a country that is similar to this it doesn’t mean that the country has no right to protest to another country for the abuse.

    And Gerry you might want to look this up but when it comes to abusing and trafficking of women the State Department has put Japan as a tier 2 nation while South Korea is a tier 1 like most of the developed nations. Tier 1 being the best and tier 3 being the worst.

    BTW what you described about rural women back in the 70s in Korea seems to be similar to what I’ve read about Thailand. I stumbled upon things that daughters being sold from the countryside in Thailand and guess where they end up. I’m not bringing this up to demean the Thais. Does this mean that Thais don’t have a right to cry abuse? Also are thais collectively guilty of this. I’m sure you can run into Thais that could be offended by the mention of this because they don’t have anything to do with this.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    I think Bevers thinks that if people are committing the similar crimes unto each other then they have no right to complain about it if somebody else did that samething to them. If we follow that rationale than no crime will be persecuted because murders do happen in practically all countries, drug abuse, and so forth. 

    Does he think that say Russians have no business confronting Germans over the issue of Holocaust since they themselves have been engaged in things like pogroms against Jews and confined them to an area called the Jewish Pale??

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Could you explain your list. It isn’t obvious. 

    Here is my crack at it since Yos doesn’t explain it.
    American wartime comfort women. Which war? What exactly are you referring too? Is it the vietnam war?
    Rape in vietname of South Korea- I looked into Korean troops in vietnam and in general in by American accounts south Korean troops were very effective against the viet congs. In fact they were so effective that the vietcongs gave orders not to engage Koreans unless victory was certain. Another thing is that they began to demonize in their propaganda the South Koreans. In general they did pretty well. There was one rape case in which the commander of the unit investigated and he asked the villagers and when it became apparent that two soldiers were guilty he had them shot. There were cases of misunderstanding and Koreans overreacting and taking out villages but nowhere near the atrocities that this propaganda makes it out to be. American soldiers in general from the accounts that I have seen seem to say that Koreans were effective and did their job well. They weren’t there for the sole purpose of committing atrocities.
    Comfort stations of all countries was held in the past war. Which war are you talking about? Are you talking about Koreans or Americans?

    Bevers be careful you don’t want your stance be hijacked by Korea bashers.

  • Gerry Bevers

    I think Bevers thinks that if people are committing the similar crimes unto each other then they have no right to complain about it if somebody else did that samething to them.

    No, but I do think that if you are truly against sexual slavery or feel that prostitution is a form of sexual slavery, then you should be critical of everyone who does it rather than focusing on one particular country or one particular ethnic group. For example, even though there is sexual slavery happening in Korea and other countries today, many Koreans, like Q, focus their criticism only on the Japanese and what happened more than 65 years ago rather than criticizing the problem today. In fact, many Koreans today promote “sexual slavery” by buying prostitutes. They criticize the “Comfort Woman” system Japan had, but say nothing about the one Korea had. They make excuses by saying, “Well, Korea’s system was not as bad as Japan’s,” without really knowing how bad either system was.

    You mentioned there being sexual slavery in Thailand today, but how many Korean newspaper articles do you see criticizing it? How many Koreans do you see protesting it in front of the Thai Embassy? How many Koreans fly to Thailand and the Philippines each year to take advantage of the prostitution in those countries? In fact, I have read that Koreans are opening up more and more bars of prostitution in the Philippines.

    I just do not like hypocrites or people who claim to support Korean comfort women when, in fact, they really just want to hate Japanese.Q, complains about “racist japornophiles,” but Q makes some of the most racist comments of anyone at the Marmot’s Hole. I would suggest you not pander to him.

  • jk6411

    Bevers said:
    “[Koreans] criticize the “Comfort Woman” system Japan had, but say nothing
    about the one Korea had. They make excuses by saying, “Well, Korea’s
    system was not as bad as Japan’s,” without really knowing how bad either
    system was.”

    Do you, Bevers, know how bad the two systems were?
    You keep saying that the two systems were the same. 
    You indeed have plenty of experience with Korean prostitutes who serviced US soldiers.
    But you have zero experience with Japan’s WWII sex slave system.
    You have no credibility.

    You also said:
    “I just do not like hypocrites”

    But you know something?
    You wholeheartedly believe the testimonies of the Korean prostitutes you met back in the 1970s.
    But you completely disbelieve the testimonies of the former comfort women (WWII sex slaves), whom you’ve never even met.
    So who’s the hypocrite here?

  • Byeonguk Yook

    I don’t care what Q says. If you begin dismissing complaints of people about abuse because fellow compatriots are engaged in this kind of practice then you’d get nowhere. If somebody is truly against sexual slavery that person has never engaged in this kind of conduct. Despite the press coverage you can’t paint all Koreans as hypocrites because there are Koreans that are engaged in this conduct. This is stereotyping that every Korean is guilty of this. You’d never condem anything if you took that stance and certain people will continue to engage in that. You might as well condem the US for beating the drums on human rights when there are human right violations occuring in the US. people gettin smuggled, people getting busted in trafficking people into the US. Also why single out Koreans, Japanese are big or even bigger into this kind of trash. 

    The other thing why Japan gets singled out is that Japan has not come clean on this war time atrocity compare that to the Germans. As to Thailand this is not a foreign country doing that to Thais it is more having to do with crime within Thailand. Another thing that I might add is the reason why Thailand became infamous for this was American GIs during the vietnam war.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    It’s pointless to argue whose system is worse. Sure Japanese may be worse and more extensive since it is clearly shown that it was government sanctioned unlike what he pointed out in Korea which tends to be more like criminal gang activity. Both cases suck. 

    The reason Japan gets singled out as I said was that they didn’t own up to their misdeeds. Criminal activity now is different than those atrocities in WWII. According to Bevers Serbs in Yugoslavia don’t have any  business crying foul over being victimized in WWII when they committed atrocities in the 90s against others. 

    The sad thing is as I said US doesn’t even come clean either especially the military. As I alluded Thailands bad reputation was either initiated or reinforced by the US military in viet nam. This would make Bevers a hypocrite as a military man not to mention places like Itaewon. Note that I am generalizing about US military just like Bevers is generalizing about Korean misconduct. You can see the fallacy of this approach. There are Koreans who wouldn’t wouldn’t touch any of this crap even with a 10 foot pole. 

  • Gerry Bevers

    Do you, Bevers, know how bad the two systems were? You keep saying that the two systems were the same.

    I have said that Japan and Korea had similiar systems, not that they were the same. They were similar in that they both provided prostitutes for their military troops and that the two governments supported their respective systems. In the Japanese system, the women were required to get weekly VD checkups, and so were the women in the Korean system. Women with debt obligations in the Japanese system were not allowed to run away from those obligations and neither were the women under the Korean system. Some women were tricked by pimps into becoming prostitutes in the Japanese system, and some women were also tricked in the Korean system.

    I am not saying that ”All” the women in the Korean system were kidnapped and forced into prostition by the Korean government, so why are many Koreans saying that about the Japanese system, even though they have no proof of it?

    You wholeheartedly believe the testimonies of the Korean prostitutes you met back in the 1970s.But you completely disbelieve the testimonies of the former comfort women (WWII sex slaves), whom you’ve never even met.

    The women who talked to me in the late 1970s were not trying to make a political statement or get some kind of compensation or attention. They did not have handlers or people using them for political purposes. And they did not wait fifty years to tell their stories, some of which are inconsistent.  They told me their stories while they were still living them.

    The Japanese comfort women system in World War II was pretty much ignored for fifty years, even though the Americans, Koreans, and others knew about it. If it was such a heinous “sex-slave” system, why did Koreans adopt a similar system after the Japanese left and set up “comfort women stations” for Korean and UN troops? And why did Korean and UN commanders allow their troops to visit such places?

    And please stop putting words in my mouth, JK. I have never said that I “completely disbelieve” the testimonies of former comfort women, but the issue has become so politicized that their testimonies should be scrutinized, especially when they are making claims that are not supported by documentary evidence.

    Finally, you cannot claim that 200,000 women were kidnapped by the Japanese military to be sex slaves based solely on the testimony of a few women, especially when there is evidence that many of the women were not kidnapped.

  • que369

    Let’s say Bevers’ family is full of hoes and pimps.  One day, a neighbor guy broke into the house and sold the family to prostitution.  The Bevers would not sue the sex offender for its full justice, because Bevers are anyhow hoes and pimps.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Japanese military used various methods to get women including kidnapping. I think the reason why this sex slave system of WWII took so long to come to light is it takes time to muster the courage to tell. Look at the rape victims in general they may not be very forth coming about being raped and may internalize the experience. Another is the shunning by the public that these women are tainted by no fault of their own and last but not least is politics. Park in the 60s normalized relations with Japan to get their aid so things like comfort women may have been hushed up a bit by him.

    However you can’t just say Koreans have no business objecting to this since they set up a similar system otherwise nobody will see that this is very wrong and immoral. You are touching on a part of history that Koreans either weren’t informed or was shunned. I think one of the Korea bashers in youtube quoted a comment by a Korean official exhorting the women to earn foreign exchange for the country, probably because the country was poor at the time and didn’t have much to earn foreign exchange. However that doesn’t mean Koreans shouldn’t object to the Japanese because it tantamounts to hypocrasy. It is like saying people should not object to Nazxi discrimination because they have also discriminated against other races. Its like telling an American that they have no business of telling europeans that Nazism is wrong because they had KKK and this business of separate but equal facilities. Also Japanese even after WWII set up similar system and let American GIs. The excuse as to why Japanese did this was to protect the purity of Japanese women so they had women “volunteer” for this. There were reports of coercion. 

    Looking into studies about camptown prostitution in Korea and Japan is in order. However Japan gets the spotlight for denying the atrocities. I definately think that in the Korean case there may have been women who volunteered out of desperation too poor with no meaningful way of making a living. Heck to this day some people hide that sort of background. In the case of Japanese colonialism Koreans certainly could go a find work in factories and I think many did to get paid they had that option. Unfortunately in the 50s and 60s in Korea there wasn’t that option since all the factories were in the north and Japan was a separate country.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    On the issue of man driving his truck into the embassy, I guess in conjures up some really powerful emotions this comfort women issue. I met a jew once whose grandparents and father were concentration camp immates and survived the ordeal. To this day he is totally anti German. He would be calm about it. He wanted to do to the Germans something similar to what they did to his family. I really can’t argue with that and tell him that he is wrong or that two wrongs don’t make a right. If people are like that you can only stay clear and let them blow some steam or you’ll end up provoking them even more. Making a stance like Bevers is an invitation for that even if it turns out that Koreans could be hypocrites.

  • tomojiro

    You should read 
     C. Sarah Soh’s 
     ”The Comfort Women” first. She sums up about the politicization of this issue that Gerry described.
    http://www.sfsu.edu/~news/2009/spring/26.html 

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Well if the experiences of “comfort women” are diverse as the book Tomo pointed out then both sides the detractors and the supporters are both equally inaccurate because both sides will be emphasizing the cases that back them their arguments and oversimplifying. The supporters the plight of the people who were victimized and those detractors the cases where people volunteered. The most vocal people are obviously the victims and the fringe deniers but that doesn’t mean that there were no victims. These victims need to be respected and if they monuments are erected then those need to be respected. For this not to be an atrocity it would have to have been purely voluntary, so in that sense I side with the supporters of the victims because a portion of the women were deceived, kidnapped and/or coerced. That being said what Bevers is saying is pointing out the continuation of this practice however this doesn’t mean that the supporters of the victims are hypocrites. Women continue to be victimized. Just like sexual predation continues to victimize kids and women. Nothing hypocritical about this just the struggle to stamp out trafficking of kids and women for sex. In both countries Korea and Japan this effort is lacking as Bevers points out. However Japan is worse because they are deniers and as the state department has classified them as tier 2. The other thing is Japan and Korea tend to dump these prostitutes into ghettos making it look like prostitution is getting out of hand because of high concentration of them in such areas. If the US had taken a similar approach they’d be big time ghettos with this US being larger given that it tends to be a major destination for smuggling people but fortunately the US doesn’t do that and there is a consistency in cracking down on this stuff. This doesn’t mean that Koreans are bunch of hypocrites. It is an aspect of Korea that is lacking education the public and telling them to take this problem seriously but you Bever as an American shouldn’t be shooting the demonstration of the victims down because of this. Let each country be and let them fix their own problems their own way.

  • jk6411

    Gerry,

    The Japanese and Korean systems may have been set up for the same purpose, but they turned out very differently.
    The Korean system existed in Korea, during peace time.
    The Japanese system existed during war time.  
    The women were shipped to faraway places, and many of them were never heard of again.
    Gross abuses and atrocities took place on a large scale.

    You should know something about the Japanese military in the WWII era.
    Japanese soldiers in that era were trained very very harshly, in order to maintain the strictest discipline.
    They underwent very brutal training and were often treated cruelly by their superiors.

    Since this brutal treatment pervaded the system, it’s not at all surprising that the Japanese soldiers treated those who were beneath them badly as well.
    It’s not just “comfort women” who were treated badly, Allied POWs were treated very badly as well.
    (At the end of the war, the Japanese leadership ordered Japanese military to destroy all of its confidential documents, especially those pertaining to the treatment of POWs.  That’s how badly they treated them.)

    You should also know that Japan was the losing side in WWII.
    In the latter part of the war, they suffered horrendous losses against the Americans, and conditions in the field became very dire and stressful.
    So you can imagine how comfort women, who were the absolute lowest in the Japanese military system, must have been treated.  
    Often, when they became a burden to the Japanese forces, they were just massacred and dumped in mass graves, along with Korean forced laborers.

    The comfort women were treated so badly by the Japanese military that the Japanese govt has officially apologized for them “on numerous occasions”. 
    They apologized as soon as they were confronted with evidence regarding comfort women.  (like, on the very next day)  
    I don’t even know why we are still having this debate.

    As for the former comfort women not speaking about their experiences for 50 years..
    As I said before, many of them died, and of those who survived, many chose not to come back home.  
    Remember the Korean photographer Ahn SeHong’s recent exhibition?  There are former Korean comfort women who are still in China, living out their last days there.  Why are they still there?

    Simple.  Their shame is too great.
    Most of these comfort women did not volunteer to be prostitutes.  They were duped into it or forced into it.
    You don’t want to remember such experiences and talk about them.  You want to forget about them and bury them.
    Only the most courageous few can talk about them.  They are far more courageous than I could ever hope to be.
     
    You know those camptown Korean prostitutes you frequented so often?
    They were viewed with disdain by Korean society.  Always were.
    I can only imagine how, 30 or 40 years ago, Korean comfort women who had been violated by the hated Japanese would have been viewed by Korean society.
    The former comfort women had a very good reason not to speak out about their experiences.
    They and their families would have been completely ostracized by society.

    But by the late 1980s, the Korean women’s rights movement got started.  I believe that when the societal climate changed sufficiently the former comfort women could finally come forward and speak out.

    Gerry, these women are very old, and they are not asking for much.  
    Please leave them alone.

  • que369

    I would recommend to read Toshiyuki Tanaka’s “Japan’s Comfort Women: Sexual Slavery and Prostitution During World War II.”  Here is google book:
     
    http://books.google.com/books?id=4WfJgGorDx8C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

  • Gerry Bevers

    Why were two of my comments removed, Robert? Neither used any profane language, and both were relevant to the topic. Because they didn’t fit in with your anti-Japanese theme?

    Yes, I noticed you didn’t post anything about that crazy Korean asshat who rammed his 1-ton truck into the front gate of the Japanese Embassy because he didn’t like the “Japanese right-wing asshat” filming himself next to the Comfort Women statue with a stick that read “Dokdo is Japanese territory.”

    A Japanese man films himself with a stick claiming Dokdo is Japanese territory and you call him a a “right-wing asshat,” but some crazy Korean guy rams his 1-ton truck into the front gate of the Japanese Embassy and you don’t mention him at all.

    Meanwhile, your little friend Q’s comment calling my family “hoes and pimps” and all of his other profane-filled, anti-Japanese rants on your blog are allowed to stay.

    The Bevers would not sue the sex offender for its full justice, because Bevers are anyhow hoes and pimps.

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Why were two of my comments removed, Robert? Neither used any profane language, and both were relevant to the topic. Because they didn’t fit in with your anti-Japanese theme?

    No, Gerry. On the backend of Disqus, they looked like duplicate comments. I have since put them back.

    As for Q’s comment, well, that is what you’re arguing, is it not?

  • http://www.rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    That said, Q, don’t bring up Bevers’ family, even if he is essentially calling victims of gang rape by the Imperial Japanese army prostitutes.

  • Gerry Bevers

    That said, Q, don’t bring up Bevers’ family, even if he is essentially calling victims of gang rape by the Imperial Japanese army prostitutes.

    No, Robert, I am just asking you and others to stop holding the Japanese to a different standard. Why is it “gang rape” when the Japanese do it, but something else when Americans and Koreans do it?

    Why are the 261,089 “comfort women” serving Korean and UN troops in Korea in 1959 prostitutes, but the purported 200,000 “comfort women” serving Japanese troops in the early 1940s innocent virgins kidnapped from their families?

  • Byeonguk Yook

    If you want to talk about different standards how come everybody knows and condemns the holocaust as if it were the only genocide. There have been other genocides in the past such as Armenian(Turks dispute this). 

    While I see where you are getting at I still disagree with you. Your rational of hypocrasy and different standard doesn’t really fly. 

  • frogmouth

    The term comfort women is wrong.

    This term implies it was a Korean Japanese issue when in fact it involved many other nations that did not use the term at all.

    Asian women as well as some Europeans were used as sex slaves.

    That’s right. Sex slaves.

  • Jeff Harris

     Gerry,

    If you don’t know the fundamental difference between the two, you have your head up your fundamental orifice farther than usual.

    Prostitutes were paid, while the comfort women serving the Japanese were allowed to survive, sometimes.

    If your reluctance to distinguish between the two clearly different situations was tied to your intellect, you’d be registering at ‘moron’. Thankfully, Robert’s provided a forum where we can help you learn. I’m thinking it’s going to take less than 40 years, but I could be wrong.

    Q,

    Leave the Bevers family out of your posts, please. It’s in poor taste (not that I’m against that) and it doesn’t help your arguments and makes you look infantile.

  • bumfromkorea
  • Gerry Bevers

    Jeff Harris wrote:

    If you don’t know the fundamental difference between the two, you have your head up your fundamental orifice farther than usual.Prostitutes were paid, while the comfort women serving the Japanese were allowed to survive, sometimes.

    No, Jeff, the comfort women under Japan’s system were also paid.

    The “house master” received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls’ gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the “master”. Many “masters” made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.

    In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.

    LINK

    Now that you know the women were paid, Jeff, are you now willing to call them “prostitutes,” just as you called the women under Korea’s “Comfort Women” system?

  • Byeonguk Yook

    As I side note I would also say that Japanese were taught that surrender is dishonorable and worse than death and that dying in battle was preferred. It’s not suprising that they tended to treat POW as less than human because of this. This attitude led to a lot of lives being thrown away on the Japanese side when clearly retreating and saving their strength to fight another day would have made more sense.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    I think reading all this comments especially Bevers people still fail to understand that comfort women are in fact enforced sex slaves. People have no problem understanding the holocaust and how horrible it was but when it comes to atrocities in Asia they are less informed or more apt to contest the issue. 

  • wangkon936

    Oh, this shit just got real:

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/07/11/2012071100703.html

    On a side note…. considering the consistent reaction of Japan’s government, I now consider Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s personal apology (and various other personal apologies by other Japanese government officials) as completely null and void. 

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Well I wouldn’t go so far as saying Shinzo Abe’s apology to be null and void. He may have meant it but the attitude of the rest of the Japanese makes it insincere and not genuine. Attempts to block and censure Korean attemtps getting attention to this issue. Shinzo Abe as an individual may have meant it. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/dcmusicfreak DC Musicfreak

    Dodgy sourcing and handling in the Chosun doesn’t quite “make it real” but Clinton’s feelings on the issue are well-known and that Japanese diplomat in New York no doubt pissed off  State with his antics in East Palisades. 

  • wangkon936

    Well, it really happened and the Japanese government do not appear all that pleased.  Can’t help it if non-Korean sources are not saying much about the issue.  Perhaps one of the Japanese papers will write about it in the next day or so.

  • wangkon936

    I don’t understand the point of making personal apologies that are non-binding in any way.  Must be a Japanese cultural thing.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    Imagine just how pissed off the Japanese would be if they actually made a monument of this in Washington DC along side the Holocaust monument. Come to think of it I think they should make a monument for all the victims of atrocities in the far east/pacific. 

  • Byeonguk Yook

    It’s interesting how you object to the comfort women issue but you fail to mention atrocities such as the Bataan death march and the mistreatment of US servicemen as POW. Just look at their sorry state when they were liberated in 1944-45. The mistreatment of comfort women is one atrocity perpetuated by the Japanese military. I would think you would be on top of things such as mistreatment of POW in the pacific by the Japanese as a US serviceman. The mere mention of Japanese military in WWII should have at least reminded you of this even if it is not directly related to the issue of comfort women.

  • ge6257st

    fuckwit.

  • CactusMcHarris

    Gerry,

    No, I don’t. Sorry, this argument of yours has short legs and really does make you look bereft of humanity. Now, I’m not saying you are, it’s just this need to say that these two things are the same is utter shite. 

  • jk6411

    Gerry said:

    “the comfort women under Japan’s system were also paid.”

    You keep on bringing up this Burma document.  But it clearly says in the document that “[These comfort women] lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places.”
    In other words, this was the best case scenario for the comfort women. 
    It in no way exemplifies the experience of the majority of comfort women.

    I wish they could have interviewed the countless other comfort women who weren’t as lucky, who ended up rotting in mass graves, after being treated worse than dogs..

    “the 261,089 “comfort women” serving Korean and UN troops in Korea in 1959″

    I have doubts about this figure.
    The Korean government started registering Korean camptown prostitutes in 1961.
    I assume that they started testing them for STD’s and issuing them VD cards from that time.
    Prior to that, I don’t know if the government was involved in it. 

    Perhaps there were so many prostitutes because Korea’s economy was in very poor shape following the Korean War and many women were driven to prostitution due to poverty. 
    (Let’s face it.  Back in the 1950s, the American GI’s stationed in Korea were rich in Koreans’ eyes.  The US military PX stores were full of all sorts of goodies that average Koreans couldn’t even dream about.  So the US bases obviously attracted many poor Korean women.)

    But between the 1960s and 2000s, there were about 20,000 of these prostitutes at any one time.

    By the way, Gerry.
    How long are you going to keep this up?

    I understand that you have a personal grudge against Korea because you feel you have been wronged by Koreans. 
    But does this bring you any peace?
    Are you going to spend your whole life bashing Korea?

  • que369

    Gerry, 1:37

  • Josh Perlstein

    Why do people still give a damn about this stuff? It’s history.

  • Byeonguk Yook

    The same reason that people give a dam about the Holocaust. It is history. 

  • http://www.elmercadillodeciudadreal.es/ segunda mano ciudad real

    que parece ser bueno
    .. este sitio web es de gran ayuda para mí, porque me da la información que
    yo needed.thanks al propietario del sitio web.
     

  • ewha

    When the German national succor team went
    to Poland for the Euro Championship last month, the players went to the Auschwitz
    first. They said in public, “although I believe our generations are not
    responsible for what happened in the past, we wanted the World know that Germans
    don’t forget the tragedy and that’ll never happen again.”

    Imagine what if German kids don’t learn
    about Nazi and the tragedy in school. Imagine what if today’s German scholars
    and even some congress men show up on nationwide broadcast shows and say,
    Germany didn’t invade surrounding countries. This kind of things are widely
    happening in Japan.

    Many Japanese people seriously believe that
    Japan was trapped to have initiated the Pacific War by the United States. Japan
    was only trying to protect Asian countries from the United States and European
    countries’ invasions. The sex slavery camps at the battlefields were brothels by
    Korean and other Asian women, etc.

    Most of the Japanese Prime Ministers after
    WW II have made apologies to Korea but Japanese people didn’t know about it until
    recently. It was all secretly done like communists do.

    US + Japan team twisted the East Asian
    history so badly. Japan has really been doing well UNDER US umbrella. They don’t
    have to educate their past evilness to their own people. Rather they were
    required to become a part of US market as well as a part of US military base. But
    the World should know that Japanese are very good at “playing” victims on the
    other hand. Japan will not stop showing how much they have been hurt by the
    atomic bombs and talking about evilness of the US, hiding why that happened
    from the nation.

  • Pingback: Japan losing the PR war in the United States: column | The Marmot's Hole

  • Q

    The US Department of State decided to use ‘comfort women’ with ‘sex slaves’ and also decided to keep neutral about Dokdo issue:

    http://japanese.joins.com/article/686/157686.html?servcode=A00§code=A10

    I would like to applaud the US government’s sensible decision.

  • Q

    I mean use both terms…

  • Those weren’t bran muffins, Brainiac…

    So, based on what I’ve read, Gerry Bevers doesn’t like Korean prostitutes very much…

    But there’s a lot of anger there… More than just a dispassionate reading of History. I’m sensing something a lot closer to home…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSfByKgX7m8

  • makarov

    #50

    That’s what makes Germans 1000x better human beings than japanese. Germans are way too classy.

  • Pinc

    Hi guys,

    I don’ t mean to support either side. At first, let me say I’m neutral. I believe we should talk about such a critical thing rigorously based on facts, evidence beyond question. However, many of opinions attempting to one-sidedly denounce Japanese seem to innocently trust the “facts” presented by Korean side…except some guys attempting to discuss based on reliable facts.

    Why? Do you really examine the evidence materials for yourself? Do you know how Korea and Japan were before the War? If you don’t, I don’t think it’s good idea to thoughtlessly cut into such a delicate issue for these two countries even though human right should be respected . I dare to say, it’s not our business. I’m shocked how Ms. Clinton and the Department is indiscreet.

    I know Japanese are also attempting to examine whether Japanese officials really committed to the inhuman action (if you want to see that, check a bunch of Japanese websites). They have repeatedly stressed any direct and reliable evidence, which proves their officials’ involvement in the problem, have not been identified. So far, we only find the “image” of the brutal action by Japanese, which seems drawn from limited facts insufficient to accuse Japanese.

    Of course, Japanese don’t deny Korean (also Japanese) prostitution, and even their maltreatment, under the war. But, such prostitution “doesn’t prove the official involvement by Japanese army.” Never. Because it’s quite ordinary scene in poor Korea and Japan before and in the war. Of course, the comparison between German and Japanese, just helping a propaganda to criticize Japanese, is meaningless.

    Plus, in the process of resetting the diplomatic relationship with Korea in 1965, Japan apologized and compensated Korea for the damage Japan gave to Korea. Korean government officially agreed to the engagement. Why do Korean raise the issue again decades after the settlement? Any international agreement should be empty if Korean have such a right to unilaterally violate the mutual agreement. Human right should not be infringed. However, this problem now is not the matter of human right, but should be a diplomatic, legal, thing.

    As far as I know, the dispute over the problem in US has been mostly issued, driven, and examined by Korean’s side. Japanese are silent as a whole. However their silence don’t mean they are “guilty.” Koreans, particularly in US, are more zealous to address this issue and put enormous efforts, thus their appeal get more paid attention to in US. But, we should listen to both sides if we want to talk about this problem.

    Anyway, we cannot judge such a historical thing by our present-day perspective/value. If you try to do so, everyone in the world must be guilty…

  • Q

    U.S. Representatives Michael Honda and Eni Faleomavaega visited a home for Korean former sex slaves of Japan:

    http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2012/08/20/80/0301000000AEN20120820006000315F.HTML

  • FarmGirlWithPitchfork

    Living in the Republic of Korea in 1990 during my service with US Navy, I first hear the term “Comfort Women,” and am offended by it every time I hear it. Kudos to Hillary Clinton for getting Japanese official(s) to use the more descriptive term “Sex Slaves.” I saw many old women that looked tired and used, and were, in 1990, doing work like cleaning oil streaks off the bulkheads of ships. I wonder if they were former forced prostitutes that did not die of venereal disease and survived to find a different career in their old age. Honor is very important in Korean culture, and you lose it when your body is pimped out.

  • FarmGirlWithPitchfork

    And “Recreation Amusement Association” is just as offensive as the term “comfort women.” Why didn’t they just call it ‘rape club?’

  • FarmGirlWithPitchfork

    I agree with most of what you say, EXCEPTING the comments on “frequenting Camptown prostitutes.” Now, I will not stand up and make a claim for anyone else’s “moral purity,” however, I know from the experience of living in Korea for a year and wearing a US Navy uniform there and being in a few bars and restaurants that visiting sailors in port will often take liberty in bars, and guess who’s there? Yes, Korean women. The sailors’ only interaction with Korean women might be a conversation in a bar, in which the sailor learns about Korean culture and history of sex slaves. And there are those of you that will “generalize” it as ‘frequenting camptown.’ That is potentially as false as claiming that every man in the Korean military or in the Japanese military participated in raping women who were placed into sexual slavery.

  • FarmGirlWithPitchfork

    While the number of women that were placed into Sexual Slavery in the 1940s may never be known, I think it’s wrong to say there could not have been 200K because there are only a handful of survivors in Korea now. Many did not survive this forced “service” era of their life, due to many elements including disease, malnutrition, forced abortions, beatings, murder motivated by insubordination, or just losing the will to live this life of forced shame. And if your five years of “service to your country” had included being raped 50 times a day for 300 days a year (generously allowing for 65 “vacation” days per year) for 5 years, what kind of “documentary evidence” do you think you would have to “prove” that your body had been violated 75,000 times? Yes, the math is pretty shocking, isn’t it. I am amazed that there are humans that survived that scale of human rights violation. No wonder there are so few survivors. And yes, I think they deserve to be memorialized. I know women who served in the US military who had their lives forever changed by only one rape. Or a mere handful.