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Oakland shooter teased over poor English: reports

From the HuffPo:

Those connected to the school, including the founder and several students, said the gunman had studied nursing. He was upset with administrators at the school, and also with several students.

“They disrespected him, laughed at him. They made fun of his lack of English speaking skills. It made him feel isolated compared to the other students,” Jordan said.

The 43-year-old South Korean national had been expelled, possibly for behavioral problems, according to Jordan.

I’m guessing there are more fundamental mental issues at work here.

UPDATE: According to the JoongAng Ilbo (Korean) Goh’s dad told police his son had caught other students cheating during a test, but was ignored when he informed the professor and later ostracized by students. The father then told the JoongAng Ilbo that after the shooting, his son called him and told him that he’d committed the crime 우발적으로 (I hate translating this word, but basically, without planning, sporadically, “it just sort of happened”) after getting angry suddenly, and that several people were hurt.

And then there is this from the Christian Science Monitor:

Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan told reporters Tuesday that the suspect – a South Korean national, 43-year-old One Goh – had recently been expelled from the university, for his apparent inability to curtail his own anger. He said Goh was being congenial with police interrogators but showed no regret for the murders.

Several students, interviewed on NBC, said that Goh, being from South Korea, didn’t fit in because of the language barrier.

Six of the victims were women, foreign nationals from Nepal, Korea, the Philippines, and Nigeria.

TIME has another profile of the suspected killer.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    So now he’s a Korean national again? I keep hearing conflicting reports. It will be interesting to get his full biography.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Yeah, I’d hold off on the passport thing. I’m getting conflicting reports, too.

  • jk6411

    Hmm, there’s a pattern here.

    Seung-Hee Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter, also was teased for his poor English skills. (esp. when he was in high school)

    Jiverly Wong, the Binghamton, NY shooter, also was teased at work for his poor English.

    I guess you shouldn’t tease people, whether they’re kids or adults..

  • αβγδε

    Jeez, did this guy attend his classes at a gradeschool? Adults teasing other adults?

    Was Cho teased for his English? I wasn’t aware of that. But I am aware of Jiverly Wong who came to mind after this current even. Except that Wong was a loser who killed himself. This latest loser just walked away. Is there a death penalty in California? If so, let’s give him an early departure. Go meet your fake Jew-god Jesus.

  • cm

    I don’t buy he was teased. It’s an internalized thought process, or insecurity about his lack of social and language skills. In a society where what others think about you, is so important, you can start imagining things that really don’t exist.

  • http://dok.do/4aVK41 Year of the Dragon

    his son called him and told him that he’d committed the crime 우발적으로 (without planning, sporadically, “it just sort of happened”)

    somehow I don’t believe this. Having the weapon, plenty of ammunition, etc all concealed on his body, being in the school classroom even though he has previously been expelled, going through the entire building systematically,

    that doesn’t sound 우발적으로 (without planning, sporadically, “it just sort of happened”) to me.

  • jkitchstk

    Yoon, Byung-kee * A Korean male who appeared to be about 33 years old said in a CNN interview from Seoul “It happened because of an internal problem within the American society, not because of a Korean.”

  • http://dok.do/4aVK41 Year of the Dragon

    Yep, always blame those Americans.

  • http://blog.oranckay.net oranckay

    Here’s some good background on the “school,” essentially a hagwon.

    Oikos is located at 7850 Edgewater Road, near the Oakland airport. It describes itself on its website as a place where “students are given the opportunity to obtain a Christian education based on solid Christian doctrine and ideology.”

    Jordan described the university as a “multilingual school that caters to students from many foreign countries.”

    According to the university’s website, the school is accredited “to award the following degrees: Associate of Science in Nursing, Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Studies, Bachelor of Music, Doctor of Ministry, Master of Divinity, Master of Music, Master of Science in Asian Medicine.”

    But the Tribune reported Tuesday that state officials never gave the school the license required by the California Acupuncture Board to teach Asian Medicine. And the school’s music and theology programs appear to lack accreditation, according to the paper.

    The paper also reported that the passing rate for the school’s nursing students on licensing exams is among the worst in the state.

    Tuition and fees at the school can cost as much as $28,000 per year.

    The Tribune uncovered a lawsuit filed by a former employee who claimed the university owed her more than $75,000. According to the paper, state regulators were concerned about the school’s finances and were monitoring the suit, which was filed last month.

    http://www.baycitizen.org/crime/story/oikos-suspects-gun-missing/

  • bumfromkorea

    @oranckay
    So it’s a typical diploma mill?

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    So it’s a typical diploma mill?

    Probably with an admixture of student-visa abuse as well.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    A real MDiv is not an easy degree to get, and to offer one would require profs with a good working knowledge of both Greek and Hebrew. Considering that most Koristians don’t know what languages the Bible was written in I’d find this hard to believe.

  • Yu Bum Suk

    So according to the CSM he’s a Korean national and according to Time a US citizen. 50% of major news sources don’t get their information dead wrong that often.

  • http://blog.oranckay.net oranckay

    Hi Bumfromkorea & Brendon,

    I blabbered about this yesterday:

    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2012/04/03/oakland-university-shooting-suspect-a-korean/#comment-459970

    I’m embarrassed to say I know a lot about accreditation in the US.

    State “approval” is like a business license. In California it comes from consumer protection board, not the state edu dept. Even traffic and beauty and taxidermy schools have the level of state approval that Oikos has been trying to allow people to think means accreditation.

    “Accreditation” comes from a regional accreditation bodies like the Western Assn of Schools and Colleges (WASC), which in turn work with the federal edu dept and are “accredited” as accreditation agencies by the fed edu dept.

    A school like UCLA or Stanford are accredited by WASC, but then their engineering or medical schools may seek additional accreditation by accreditation bodies similarly allowed to do so by the fed edu dept, for just those colleges. So for expl there’s some “national assn of colleges of engineering” that gets a regular thorough tax-audit-slash-rectal-exam-from-hell by the feds, to give engineering schools (that want it) similar treatment. The whole idea of doing accreditation in the US this way is to keep bureaucrats out of the process in a direct way. When WASC visits your school for regular checkups (once a decade, I think), the visitation team is composed of people like presidents and administrators from other schools, professors of edu and edu admin, and so on, and experts in the relevant subject matter if you’re a small school that’s mostly about, say, agriculture or marine sciences. None are in the employ of the state or federal govts. Allow me to take the time to say I think it’s things like these that make American higher edu what it is, yep. Anyway they’re very, very thorough and look at everything, from the obvious right down to how well you keep statistics on campus crime.

    Tiny Korean institutions in the US often say they can’t get WASC (or regional equivalent) accreditation because of they keep their records in Korean, but I saw one visited by a WASC team that included Koreanists and Korean speakers, and other non-English schools have been accredited.

    To be fair, WASC-level accreditation is so thorough that you really need people with edu phd’s to help you stay on top of it all, and the thoroughness is a huge burden for a small school.

    But as one might expect of a school founded by any one individual, as is often the case with Korean-founded schools in the US, the real hurdle (and they never get that far), is exactly that they’re founded by one individual or his cronies. Accreditation agencies, especially WASC, want to see very well documented evidence of faculty governance (like a decade’s worth of meeting minutes) and guard against “founders syndrome.” They think that a school where decisions are made at the whim of any one dominant figure or figures has questionable “sustainability,” which is a very big issue for them. You never know when the place might go to pot because of the founder’s ego, for expl. Being “tuition dependent” is another big no-no, and Oikos would’ve had both problems had it ever sought WASC accreditation, whatever the quality of the actual edu going on.

    Its nursing program had some sorta form of accreditation from some sort of nursing assn (even the Better Business Bureau uses the word “accreditation”), and many attending that program were probably getting some real self-cultivation and advancement that shouldn’t be laughed at.

    I don’t think Oikos had ICE approval to host foreign students.

  • cm

    “So according to the CSM he’s a Korean national and according to Time a US citizen. 50% of major news sources don’t get their information dead wrong that often.”

    Why does this matter that much? We know he’s a Korean and no immigration or citizenship status will change that. It seems like some people here are afraid that Korean public are going to try to shirk their collective responsibility by dismissing this as an American problem. But it’s confirmed by the Oakland police that Goh is a naturalized American citizen, and even his brother was with the US military stationed in Germany but was killed in an auto accident last year.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_20308252/police-respond-shooting-east-oakland

  • holterbarbour

    Here’s how you can get your diploma mill approved to host foreign students: http://www.ice.gov/sevis/schools/new_schools/

  • cm

    Not that all this changes anything, but it seems to matter to a lot of people here for some reason.

  • Pingback: The Oikos Shooting « Infidelworld

  • http://dok.do/4aVK41 Year of the Dragon

    Not that all this changes anything, but it seems to matter to a lot of people here for some reason.

    It does matter a lot, because the Korean media is always going on and on about “evil foreigners” and how they are “corrupting Korea.

    This guy was (or still is) Korean and he decided to do what he did, in America.

  • jkitchstk

    # 15 cm,
    “Why does this matter that much? We know he’s a Korean and no immigration or citizenship status will change that. It seems like some people here are afraid that Korean public are going to try to shirk their collective responsibility by dismissing this as an American problem.”

    See my comment # 7, it appears the “shirking” has already begun but I don’t think “shirking” is the correct term. It’s more like blaming America(imagine that) is the idea by at least one Seoul citizen walking the streets today.
    What’s wrong with wanting to get the story straight when being told different things, don’t you get curious or want to know the fact after being told this and that?

    The Korea Herald reports the police say the suspect is a Korean national…
    “Seven killed in shooting at U.S. religious college”
    http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20120403000190
    “People connected to the school, including the founder and several students, described the gunman as a former nursing student at the university. Jordan said Goh is a South Korean national.
    A call to the Korean consulate in San Francisco went unanswered Monday.”

    You’d think the Korean government could at least answer their phone aye?

    KBS World says he’s an ethnic Korean man with U.S. citizenship…
    ’2 Korean Americans Killed in Oakland Shooting’
    http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_In_detail.htm?No=89387&id=In

    The Chosun says he’s an American citizen…
    “California Gunman Angry at Exclusion”
    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/04/04/2012040401049.html

    The Donga says he’s Korean American…
    “Oakland shootings revive memories of VA Tech massacre”
    http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2012040412108

    The KT says the suspect is ethnic Korean but reports other things…
    “Ethnic Korean on shooting spree in US”
    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2012/04/182_108296.html
    “Jordan(Oakland Police Chief) said the suspect was believed to be a former student at the college with no previous criminal record.
    “He is a Korean national,” Jordan said, without specifying if he was from South or North Korea.
    Korea’s Yonhap news agency, citing officials at the Korean consulate in San Francisco, identified the shooter as Ko Won-il.
    Yonhap also said the alleged shooter is a U.S. citizen of Korean descent.”

    And the Winner is…The Joongang! Who says, even in the title…
    “Korean goes on fatal rampage in U.S.”
    http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2950951&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1
    The caption said…”Oakland Police attend to the dead and wounded after a school shooting at Oikos University in Oakland, California, Monday. A Korean gunman allegedly opened fire at the school, killing at least seven people, law enforcement sources close to the investigation said. Police have a suspect in custody who used to attend the school. [REUTERS/YONHAP]”

    But, in the article it says…”The class is open only to American citizens and people with U.S. permanent residency. Fellow students said Goh studied hard but failed several compulsory subjects.”

    So, the suspect dropped out or was expelled because he wasn’t an American citizen and/or couldn’t speak English?

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Call me a defender of diploma mills, but isn’t it great when you can get foreigners to pay $20-40k a year into your country (and your local economy) just because you are Migukstan? I bet a lot of other countries would love to have that free stream of revenue into their tax base.

    These people aren’t exactly border hopping illegals popping an anchor baby and immediately hooking on to welfare, which takes money out of all our wallets.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    I also understand that Latin American and Caribbean countries are well know diploma mills for Americans looking for medical degrees… scary! But, from an economic standpoint, something that these countries very much welcome…

  • gbnhj

    Depends who you’re talking to, WangKon. The schools themselves, and those who profit from them financially, surely welcome that revenue stream, and seriously court students overseas to attend. The B-school I went to, for example, set international students’ application deadlines at June 1st, while local deadlines are set at August 1st; in other words, academic standards are important, but higher fees trump all. Of course, the process is not entirely mercenary. Schools also court students from far afield on the time-honored assumption that it promotes a variety of thought. In the digital era, that assumption may become labored by greater connectivity and common sources of information, but it’s still the model most schools follow.

    From the WASC’s standpoint, however, standards and propriety are valued more highly. Accredidation is a multi-year process, and if you don’t succeed, it’s a bitch to try and give it another go. I’d guess that folks from the WASC are less concerned with ramping up revenue, and more concerned with the maintenance of standards.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Well, standards are most certainly important. Maybe not so much for religious studies or “Asian” medicine, but most certainly nursing!

  • Wedge

    Heard an interesting question last night at the pub: Will “going Korean” replace “going postal” in the lexicon?

  • Yu Bum Suk

    If one more Korean goes on a spree in the next five years then yes, “going Korean” will certainly enter the American lexicon.

    The Guardian today is reporting an instructor saying he dropped out, and didn’t get expelled. He was then upset when he couldn’t get his tuition back.

  • Sonagi

    I don’t think Oikos had ICE approval to host foreign students.

    They’re listed in SEVIS.

    These people aren’t exactly border hopping illegals popping an anchor baby and immediately hooking on to welfare, which takes money out of all our wallets.

    You and just about every US resident reading this blog patronizes businesses that hire “illegals with anchors” who will work physically demanding jobs for minimum wage with no benefits. I’ll bet many of the Korean restaurants you patronize have Spanish-speaking dishwashers in back and Spanish-speaking custodians mopping the floors after hours. I’ll bet the building where you work is cleaned by a minimum-wage-no-benefits staff comprised largely of employees working under fake or stolen SSNs. Only 60% of illegal immigrants hopped the border. The other 40% include Korean passport holders who overstayed tourist or student visas. The war on illegal immigration is a failure just like the war on drugs because enforcement targets supply, rather than demand. People will quit sneaking in or overstaying their welcome when employers in the US quit hiring them. I was told by a Korean who overstayed a visa in Canada that it is hard to live there illegally because most employers verify an applicant’s SIN and it is very hard to get medical treatment without a valid SIN.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Wedge,

    I hope not, but there is certainly a distinct possibility that it might.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Sonagi,

    I’m not bashing every illegal immigrant, just the ones that leach off the system. I respect the illegal that comes to our country and mows my lawn for $3/hr. Means I need I get my lawn mowed for a discount.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936
  • Sonagi

    I’m not bashing every illegal immigrant, just the ones that leach off the system. I respect the illegal that comes to our country and mows my lawn for $3/hr. Means I need I get my lawn mowed for a discount.

    I hope my sarcasm meter is malfunctioning.

  • ecw

    Raising the minimum wage would solve the illegal problem and the recession. Of course the Democrats don’t care anymore about American labor, and the Republicans don’t care about actually solving the illegal problem.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    Raising the minimum wage increases the incentive to hire low-wage illegal immigrant labor, and decreases the demand for marginal or entry-level American labor. I’m not sure how putting more Americans out of work, or stopping employers from hiring them, “solves” either the problem of illegal immigration or the recession.

    Here’s an example. Last summer I took my family to Six Flags in St. Louis. The park where I used to work for US$3.35 an hour at the age of 16 is now staffed largely by Chinese and other Asian college students on temporary visas, because the US workforce available at the current, higher minimum wage of US$7.25 an hour is generally not worth it. American high school kids are worse employees than Chinese engineering students at that rate, so the American kids don’t get hired. At five bucks an hour they might get hired.

  • ecw

    It doesn’t incentivize such labor because the jobs that would use it disappear. Raising the minimum wage eliminates jobs for low-wage illegal immigrant labor.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Call me a defender of diploma mills, but isn’t it great when you can get foreigners to pay $20-40k a year into your country (and your local economy) just because you are Migukstan? I bet a lot of other countries would love to have that free stream of revenue into their tax base.

    A lot of other non-western countries perhaps. The UK, Canada and Australia have thriving international education industries. In Australia, education is the third largest export earner for the country behind Coal and Iron Ore. Diploma mills and government universities seem to be the flagships.

  • ecw

    A large proportion of jobs at or near the minimum wage are currently held by illegal immigrant labor. Raising the minimum wage eliminates many of these jobs, which is the point. That’s how it solves the illegal immigration problem.

    Most of the low wage jobs are domestic non-tradeable service sector jobs, so they can’t be outsourced. Many of these jobs previously held by illegals would disappear, but a good deal of them would remain at the higher wage. The higher wage would increase general economic activity.

  • holterbarbour

    #21: Regarding those Caribbean medical schools (anyone else remember the Grenada invasion?), they’re no more (and no less) diploma mills than the less-prestigious law schools in the US like Thomas Cooley, Whittier, or one of those California-only places. A degree from one of those medical schools is worth nothing unless and until you pass the USMLEs. Ditto Cooley/Whittier and a bar exam. While to some extent they probably prey on people with more aspirations than talent, they do provide a legitimate path to their respective professions. Schools like Oikos granting liberal arts/theology/music degrees, not so much. But I’ll give Oikos the benefit of the doubt regarding their nursing/oriental medicine programs, though.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    It doesn’t incentivize such labor because the jobs that would use it disappear. Raising the minimum wage eliminates jobs for low-wage illegal immigrant labor.

    So your contention is that employers who disregard immigration law are scrupulous about observing the minimum wage? Really?

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Sonagi,

    Your capitalist meter is malfunctioning… ;)

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    I don’t think I could physically pay someone $3 an hour. Tell me you at least give the poor bloke a tip.

  • ecw

    So your contention is that employers who disregard immigration law are scrupulous about observing the minimum wage?

    Many of these employers maintain some sort of plausible deniability because the employees falsify documents, steal IDs, etc. There’s nothing comparable regarding the minimum wage.

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    Experiments on Amazon’s Mechanical Turk website have revealed that Americans will accept as little as $0.25 per hour for piecework.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    I’m sure those people see other benefits in the work, such as adding to their portfolio or giving them access to a new network of people. Plenty of people (myself included) will or have worked for nothing to get their foot in the door.

    On the other hand, I’d like to meet the cynic who can pay a fellow countryman that much for dead-end work with a clear conscience.

  • ecw

    I’m not sure what your point is. People will also prostitute themselves or kill and steal if they’re desperate.

  • ecw

    If you’re an adult accepting 25 cents an hour doing stuff on the internet in America, you’re likely expending more money on food, water, basic sustenance, shelter, electricity, internet access, etc. than you’re earning. You’re either doing it for fun, or someone else like your family or the government is paying for the cost of your survival to supplement Amazon’s 25 cents per hour.

  • yuna

    When I saw the description of the college, I immediately thought of a Groupon deal for a “doktortitel” from a college in the US I saw a while ago:
    http://www.groupon.de/deals/online-deal/doktortitel-kaufende/3616628

    “Angel Therapy” and “Motivation” are my current favourites. I also like the sound of “Herr Doktor in Apologetics”

    Bei Doktortitel besteht die Wahl aus Doktortiteln aus folgenden Bereichen:
    … of Alternative Health
    … of Alternative Therapy
    … of Angel Therapy
    … of Apologetics
    … of Aromatherapy
    … of Astral Projection
    … of Biblical Archaeology
    … of Biblical Counseling
    … of Biblical Studies
    … of Christian Counseling
    … of Christian Counseling Psychology
    … of Christian Education
    … of Church Administration
    … of Church Management
    … of Comparative Religion
    … of Counseling
    … of Divinity
    … of Dowsing
    … of Drug and Alcohol Counseling
    … of Esoteric Psychology
    … of Esoteric Psychotherapy
    … of Esoteric Sciences
    … of Exorcisms
    … of Feng Shui
    … of Gospel Music
    … of Healing Sciences
    … of Holistic Nutrition
    … of Holistic Sciences
    … of Homeopathy
    … of Immortality
    … of Metaphysical Sciences
    … of Metaphysics
    … of Ministerial Education
    … of Ministry
    … of Motivation
    … of Paranormal Psychology
    … of Parapsychology
    … of Pastoral Counseling
    … of Pastoral Hypnotherapy
    … of Pastoral Psychology
    … of Pastoral Psychotherapy
    … of Psychic Astrology
    … of Psychic Sciences
    … of Radionics
    … of Religion
    … of Religious Counseling
    … of Religious Economics
    … of Religious Education
    … of Religious Humanities
    … of Religious Science
    … of Sacred Theology
    … of Spiritual Counseling
    … of Spiritual Healing
    … of Transcendental Meditation
    … of Theocentric Communications
    … of Theocentric Humanities
    … of Theocentric Hypnotherapy
    … of Theocentric Liberal Arts
    … of Theocentric Psychology
    … of Theocentric Sciences
    … of Sacred Theology
    … of Transpersonal Communications
    … of Transpersonal Psychology
    … of Ufology
    … of Wellness Studies

  • Sonagi

    Raising the minimum wage increases the incentive to hire low-wage illegal immigrant labor, and decreases the demand for marginal or entry-level American labor.

    That is true as long as employment laws are not enforced effectively. Cheap illegal employment is no longer an economic net positive for most Americans when the cheap labor pool is mostly of child-bearing age and living in a country where unrestricted birthright citizenship establishes immediate eligibility for public assistance. Illegal immigrants working the french fry machine at McDonalds or changing the sheets at the Hyatt are not leaches. They take public money because they do not earn enough to feed their kids.

    There are also social issues regarding living arrangements. Many illegal immigrant families rent rooms to reduce housing costs. This puts unrelated adults or older cousins in close proximity to children and young teens, not a good situation as any teacher or social worker can tell you. Being “undocumented” also makes it easier for a biological father to ditch his family. No real name and government-issued ID number, no way to track him down and make him pay. Some of the ‘dads’ who’ve abandoned my students will eventually get papers in any future immigration reform and could even avoid deportation in the absence of reform if these men have fathered children here with a new partner.

  • dogbertt

    Herr Doktor of the Internet.

  • dogbertt

    I’m not bashing every illegal immigrant, just the ones that leach off the system. I respect the illegal that comes to our country and mows my lawn for $3/hr. Means I need I get my lawn mowed for a discount.

    “Leech”

    Please, don’t shoot me.

    :)

    Anyway, a bit before your time, but this was a much better country when white men went out on the weekends and mowed their own damn lawns.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    “… this was a much better country when white men went out on the weekends and mowed their own damn lawns.”

    How times have changed…

    http://earthfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/walking-dog-suv.jpg

  • slim

    I’m sure I’m not alone here in having the experience (1970s) of having a network of neighbors who paid me in cash to mow lawns. I took in some $50-75 a week (Carter-era $) from April-October as a 13-year-old in rural Pennsylvania.

    I’m told that it is impossible to find local kids interested and able and permitted by their parents to do this work and you never see kids doing any yard work. No wonder there are so many young fatties in the US.

  • Sonagi

    I think that’s probably true in certain zip codes, Slim. In my present city and in my hometown with a mixed middle-class and working class demographic, I see plenty of teens and kids mowing lawns.

  • Sonagi

    “Leech”

    Please, don’t shoot me.

    I’m going to shoot myself for repeating Wangkon’s spelling error.

  • ecw

    Raising the minimum wage increases the incentive to hire low-wage illegal immigrant labor, and decreases the demand for marginal or entry-level American labor.

    This is logically and empirically false. Raising the minimum wage disincentivizes the use of low-wage illegal immigrant labor by definition, and increases the demand for American labor. The decline in the minimum wage in real terms has correlated with greater use of low-wage illegal immigrant labor.

    Lowering the minimum wage increases the incentive to hire low-wage illegal immigrant labor.

  • chanceencounter

    #50

    It seems I’m not the only one here on MH who used to mow lawns for dough in rural Pennsylvania. Were you the guy up the street who used a fancy schmancy rider to snatch my mowing gigs?

    Not that I’m holding a grudge or anything………………..

  • http://bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    Raising the minimum wage disincentivizes the use of low-wage illegal immigrant labor by definition, and increases the demand for American labor.

    Please explain this unusual theory of yours. You seem to have identified one of those strange markets where raising the price increases demand.

  • Iang nio

    Back to the topic. From the Chosun Ilbo today. The excerpt seems to confirm what I was suggesting in the previous Oakland shooting article here at the MH:

    Oakland Gunman’s Troubled Life

    “The Korean Consulate in San Francisco said Tuesday that One Goh was born in 1968 and left Korea in 1990. He gained U.S. citizenship in 2000 and changed his name to the current one, the consulate added.

    Goh had a construction firm in Virginia but moved to California when both his business and his marriage failed. He had substantial debts and drifted from job to job, barely making ends meet by working on building sites and bagging groceries at supermarkets. His temper apparently led to frequent confrontations.”

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/04/05/2012040500793.html

  • Iang nio

    And from the Korea Times… The excerpts I C&P here are what really caught my eye…

    “Many Koreans suffer ‘English stress’ and a few snap

    The many college students who e-mail Korea Times journalists asking for help in their English class translation assignments suggest that the answer is probably no.”

    And…

    “The obsession with English has been linked to tragedy. Five students from the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST), which has been at the forefront of the English lecture movement, committed suicide last year, igniting heated debates over such classes, with professors and students arguing that they caused unnecessary stress.

    Experts also point out that Koreans are obsessed with the idea that they should speak English as (American/Canadian – my remark) natives by copying their accents and pragmatic conventions.”

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/04/123_108421.html

    I find it odd and surprising that Korean students email the Korea Times asking for help in their English work assignments… I’m not sure whether there is any credibility to this claim but it still is just … ‘odd’ …

  • dogbertt

    The San Francisco Chronicle sunk a bit further as it printed the advice to its readers that the “One” in “One Goh” is pronounced, “Oh-nee”.

  • Iang nio

    Indirectly related… Unfortunately, a confirmation that America is turning increasingly into a country of law-breaking hoodlums…

    Lobbyists, Guns and Money
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html?_r=1

    And that the usual suspects (i.e., big corporations) have their greasy fingers in the “divide & conquer” money pot (hey, the weapons industry is raking it in by the buckload right along with pharmaceuticals shysters (Pfizer, Novartis, etc.) du jour.

  • kimloveskim

    Although I was born & raised here in North America, my Japanese parents taught me to respect the country that took them in and to not give other Japanese immigrants a bad name. I see alot of my Japanese-American/Canadian friends having been raised in the same strict way. I believe this is a big factor that contributes to the rarity of Japanese names involved in violent crimes here in North America.

    I think Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants who are involved in illegal activities overseas have the excuse that they come from countries where many live in relative poverty. However, I believe that people from more developed nations such as Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc. should be able to behave according to higher moral/ethical standards.

    Just in the last 5 years, there have been an astounding amount of violent shooting rampages that can be credited to people of Korean descent (not including the domestic murder-suicides involving family members). I can’t help but wonder what’s wrong with the way Koreans raise their children, especially considering how common Christianity is in their culture.

  • kimloveskim

    It’s astounding that some people seem to think that being teased is a valid excuse for going off on some shooting rampage. It can be argued that kids in high school are too immature to keep their emotions in check/grasp the consequences of their actions but a forty-something year old?! That’s just pathetic. After gaining nearly half a century of life experience, you should be able to know enough to go to a shrink to avoid emotional meltdown.

  • jkitchstk

    # 7,
    Added On April 4, 2012
    CNN’s Ralitsa Vassileva reports on Korean reaction to the shootings at a small California Christian college.

    Here is the video of three Koreans interviewed on the streets of Seoul when S. Koreans react to U.S./Oakland, CA shootings. In my comment # 7 I originally spelled his wrong, it’s Yoon, Byong-kee who is the 3rd interviewee
    “Shootings resonate in S. Korea…”
    http://edition.cnn.com/video/?hpt=ias_mid#/video/world/2012/04/04/vassileva-ca-shooting-korean-reax.cnn

    I can agree with part of what Mr. Yoon said but the quote in comment # 7 is really stupid which I’ll repeat “It happened because of an internal problem within the American society, not because of a Korean.”

    In this case the person IS to blame, not the country. Sorry Mr. Yoon. His Does Mr. Yoon also agree that waygooks or foreigners in S. Korea should not be blamed for crimes. Would it be possible for Mr. Yoon to never blame a waygook for a crime in S. Korea? Would he be willing to blame S. Korea for its “internal problem(s)” whenever a waygook committed a crime?
    Because no foreigner, regardless of visa/citizen status could EVER be a true Korean.
    The South Korean(Su Nam Ko) who allegedly committed a cold-blooded execution/went on a rampage in the U.S. Oakland, CA is also known as(AKA) One-Il Goh.
    Here are the names, ages, some photos, info. of the 7 victims…
    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Mass-Shooting-Victims-Mourned-145997255.html