닉쿤 (Nichkhun) an idol of Chinese/Thai origin and member of a Korean boyband – who has for some time been one of the most popular boy idols on the Korean entertainment TV circuit since being “discovered” by none other than JYP – has taken the rap recently for appearing in a TV commercial for a drink back in Thailand which has the Japanese Empire flag (욱일승천기) in the background as he says hello in Japanese.
He has apologized and said the production company CG’d it in later and he and his management were not aware of the finished commercial.
Let me emphasize that most netizens seem to defend Nichkhun himself but are surprised at the lack of foresight by the Thai commercial production company, but then again it was aimed at the Thai audience, and they are not likely to know/care about the meaning it seems to hold to the Asian countries invaded/inconvenienced by Japan during the time that flag was in full use, as do Japanese themselves (or do they? it is used for ultra right wing nationalism there)
Remember the Ki Sungyong’s monkey-face goal ceremony where the Korean footballer got mega-upset at seeing the flag and made a monkey face?
In Europe, I have seen that flag used as a sort of representation of “cool Japan” in many places. So my question is: amongst the list of things Korea is upset about, (i.e. Tokdo, Comfort Women, East Sea, Text Books) where does this flag place on the scale that says “legitimate” on one end and “very little basis, does more harm than good, makes them look like raving nationalisitc loons”?
I would also like answers from some Japanese themselves (if any) – about how they view the flag.
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
‘the Japanese Empire flat’
Yuna, you mean flag, I think, but the Thai company editor should be flogged with dry rice noodles for letting that one slip by. Thailand being one of the countries that Japan attempted to co-opt into the GEACS.
And for me, that flag will always represent Japanese aggression from the 1920s onward until the end of WWII. Perhaps not equivalent to the Nazi flag representing Germany, but not far from it.
Interesting post – I’m looking forward to the Nipponophiles’ responses.
Ki Sungyong’s little goal celebration was about as off-the-cuff as the national team’s 2002 “Ohno” goal celebration.
Re: the flag, well, I like it. But I like the Confederate Flag too.
The Imperial Japanese flag is very offensive to Koreans.
It’s the flag under which Japan colonized Korea and invaded other Asian countries, committing many atrocities.
It’s the flag under which many Koreans in the peaceful independence movement (during Japanese occupation) were tortured and killed.
It’s the flag under which 5.4 million Koreans were enslaved by Japan for its war effort (WWII) (and hundreds of thousands of them died under the harsh treatment and inhumane working conditions, or they were just plain slaughtered and dumped in mass graves when the Japanese army was retreating.)
It’s the flag under which up to 100,000 Korean women were forced into sexual slavery for the Japanese military (most of them died during the war, due to harsh treatment, disease, or just plain being slaughtered).
Need I say more..?
And yes, the flag is used by Japan’s ultra right-wing groups.
(which are behind Japan’s attempts to claim Dokdo, and also the Japanese school textbooks that falsify history, whitewashing Japan’s WWII war crimes, among other things.)
As for the flag being “cool” in Europe, well, I guess that’s because Europeans did not directly experience Japan’s militarism and brutalities in WWII.. (But I wonder, would they be as accommodating to the Nazi flag, for instance? That’s how Koreans, Chinese, and other Asians feel when they see the imperial Japanese flag.)
I was with some non-Koreans in a sports bar in Seoul when we were served by a Korean waiter wearing a Nazi eagle (I think) emblem on his shirt pocket. I was asked by my group to ask the waiter if he knew the meaning behind it. I think it’s pretty much the same thing. Somewhere in between ignorance and not caring, but that incident alone made me realize that it cannot be said that it only happens over there.
@yuna,
Yes, that’s true.
Koreans don’t have a good idea of what the swastika is.
Not too long ago in New York, there was an outcry b/c a Korean store owner was selling swastika-shaped jewelry. (The store owner explained that it was not a swastika, but the Buddhist symbol that is a mirror-image of the swastika. But obviously that didn’t fly. So she just pulled the jewelry from her shelves, and that was that.)
I guess it’s fortunate that Koreans don’t use the Nazi flag to represent “cool Germany” in Korea. ha
#1 ” Flag” Thanks, Cactus – fixed.
#2 Yeah, I have also seen the Confederate flag outside the US (in cars and room windows) and have wondered about what to think of it, i.e. should I be scared of that bald tattooed scary looking man looking at me sitting at the wheel of a parked car which has a large confederate flag on the car window? Or is he just looking because he thinks my dog is cute?
So why do you like it? is it the colour scheme for example – and do you know what others in the US think about it?
Actually it brings back one more memory. I had a tanktop which had Union Jack as its front panel when I was very young that my mother bought in Korea. I was told by several that this was offensive in the UK (used by the BNP and so on), and this was indeed verified when I read about this in the Korean translated version of the Secret Diary of Adrian Mole. (yes I was a precocious one) I remember thinking, even at that age, WOW how could it be that I should not wear British Flag in Britain???
#6,
Although I haven’t been to the American South for many years, I grew up there for a time. I can tell you when I was a kid, many years ago, it was a lot more common than it is now, but it’s still used to represent ‘Southern’ values. IMO, one of the reasons so many Southern states are last in education and the desirable traits of society is because they’re still fighting the American Civil War in their subconsciousness, but I could be full of s.#%, too.
Related, I’ve seen hicks, yokels and rednecks in several other states not in the South displaying the flag. Like other stupid people, I’m for them being allowed to display the flag, as long as they’re sterilized first.
Koreans aren’t a bunch of loons who would lynch 욱일기 bearing Japanese. Just look what happens to these two Japanese girls who walked around Myeongdong bearing the imperial flag: http://bit.ly/Aq8LCB
#8 – just so that people are aware of what that video is about, it was shot three or four years ago by couple of Japanese women who wanted to test what kind of reactions they would get from Koreans if they walked the Korean streets holding a rising sun flag. In the interview, they had often heard from Japanese that Korea was a crazy dangerous anti-Japanese hating place, so they wanted to see for themselves if it was true.
After walking around Myongdong and other busy streets with that flag, as the Youtube videos show nobody cared. The two Japanese women concluded was that it wasn’t true, and Korea was very safe for Japanese, and they apologized for the stunt.
cm @#9,
Wow, you know everything!
Thanks for the info.
Awww, a Chinese/Thai boyband member wasn’t taught by his parents and teachers about how Koreans hate the Japanese. Well, at least now he has been taught and can jump on the Korean hate bandwagon.
cm #9: Thanks for the background info. From my limited American perspective…
1) In Washington, D.C., I guess some people might react to some people holding Confederate flags or whichever country the U.S. government has targeted at that particular time. But then, I guess it depends on the time of day (lunch time? weekend?) and the neighborhood/area (downtown D.C. or the ‘hood).
2) Most people are caught by surprise by such stunts and don’t respond. The Japanese woman might have had people greeting her at the airport if she had faxed a letter and sent an email about her plans to the “Korean patriots who hate the sight of the Japanese flag”civic organization.
3) There must be something that would provoke Koreans. A Klansman wearing his a Klan outfit in downtown D.C., would provoke an immediate reaction from many people, probably 911 calls in many places in America (in some others, it may still be the dress code).
@jkitchstk
Yeah, those fucking ridiculous Koreans, getting pissy at a TV ad using the cultural equivalent of the Swastika as the background. God, why are these Koreans so fucking irrational?
#7: Same as you, I grew up in the South and witnessed the same things. I myself used to think positively about that flag out of ignorance of its offensiveness. I think many of the people who still wave that flag also have a disconnect of the deep offensiveness it brings to others.
#12 – I remember seeing that video, and it didn’t look like Koreans were dazed at all. Instead they were smiling at the girls and people waved at them.
The Japanese girls at the press conference said they were told they would be murdered if they went ahead with this stunt. Instead they said they got a big welcome by Koreans, shocking them.
cm #15–very nice story, thanks. I am not surprised people did not attack them.
1) Again, from a limited American perspective–could it be that many people don’t even recognize the Japanese flag? Might have thought it was some British chicks?
2) Myeongdong seems really busy on weekends, especially with a lot of Japanese tourists. Could there be a different response in a different area that is less Japanese-friendly? If someone attacked them then the local business owners might jump those attackers.
3) Two chicks–including one in a skirt and knee-high boots? She could be carrying the Klan flag in a black neighborhood, she might get some “yo, baby, wanna see my flag” comments, but I doubt anyone would attack them.
4) Considering how many South Koreans grumble and complain about the country, commit suicide, are in depression and mentally ill, hate the president and everyone in power, some who saw the Japanese flag may have been saying, “Please, save us from Myung-bak.”
A Southern friend of mine who did respect the Stars and Bars was once amused to see it flying somewhere in West Virginia. It’s important to know your history, folks.
For what it’s worth, I saw one flying at the back of a bus in Tanzania. Only thing more surreal in Africa was the Virunga volcanoes. And some dude wearing an Islanders jersey.
I grew up in Texas, I was never bothered by the Confederate flag. I was the co-editor of my high school newspaper, one of the writers (named Jim Jones, no kidding) was a segregationist (I always reminded him that I was his boss on the paper, challenged him to put his pathetic thoughts in print).
When I was in grad school, a Harvard University student had a confederate flag hanging from out of her window. In my first ever TV appearance, I argued that she should be allowed to hang it from her window as long as (1) other students were allowed to hang other things and (2) it isn’t a threat to fall on anybody passing by. I added that even a flag that represents a failed nation that lost its only fight is entitled to have advocates.
Loyalties were not neatly divided along the Mason-Dixon line. There were Unionists in Virginia and Confederate sympathizers in Union border states where slavery was legal.
I would see them standing outside their trucks hawking their literature and paraphernalia along the highways of East Texas back in the mid-80s. My brother dressed up as a Klansman for Halloween and gave his friends gag Christmas cards with photos of Klansmen burning a cross and the message, “Wishing you a WHITE Christmas.”
nayaCasey @#16,
No, it certainly wasn’t because Koreans didn’t recognize the flag.
They probably recognized it, but they were probably scratching their heads wondering what those two girls were doing.
(I would’ve reacted the same way.)
Also, MyeongDong is a popular area and sometimes various organizations stage events or stunts there, so perhaps passersby weren’t surprised by it.
Besides, Koreans are generally friendly to foreigners.
I think if the girls had protested in front of say, the Blue House or the Korean Parliament building, Koreans may actually have taken notice.
(or, if it hadn’t been two girls, but a bunch of Japanese men..)
But Koreans are sensitive to this sort of thing.
Some time ago when SNSD released their Genie mini-album, the original album cover contained an image of what looked like a WWII-era Japanese warplane. Koreans instantly picked up on that, there was controversy, and SM immediately changed the album cover, replacing the picture of the plane with that of a Korean-made fighter jet.
And if a Korean or Korean company ever displayed or used an image of the imperial Japanese flag, there would be instant furor.
And no, no matter how much Koreans may dislike their government, they’ll never look to Japan for salvation. Ever.
(Besides, not all Koreans hate their govt. It’s just that the opposition parties are really vocal in criticizing the current president and ruling party.)
(And South Korea’s economy is still growing at a good pace. SKoreans have much less to complain about than people in a lot of other countries, which are going bankrupt.)
Cactus (#7) wrote:
“Like other stupid people, I’m for them being allowed to display the flag, as long as they’re sterilized first.”
Cactus, don’t denigrate yourself, man — you’re not a stupid person!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
jk6411 @21,
1) I guess it sound strange to suggest that Koreans may not have recognized the Japanese flag, but according to the Ministry of Public Administration and Security, 57% of 20-Somethings Ignorant of Korean War. Among other things, the Ministry found that “36.9 percent of respondents said they didn’t know when the Korean War had broken out.”
So I will still hold out the possibility that many South Koreans may not be aware of the Japanese flag when they see it as they are walking down the street.
2) So we are in agreement that most Koreans probably didn’t care what the chicks were doing.
3) I do agree with your point citing SNSD. A few months ago I told some Koreans different stories about losing things and having Koreans either return them to me or leaving them undisturbed until I returned to pick them up. One cynical guy said: “That means the stuff wasn’t valuable. If it had been, someone would have taken it.” So, to use that friend’s logic, two random girls walking around Myeongdong? So what. But let it be something or someone important, then definitely activists will respond, even if people just walking down the street don’t care. That’s also why I said if they had let the “Korean patriots who hate the sight of the Japanese flag” civic organization know they were coming, then they would have been greeted at the airport with protests.
Sonagi #20, I used to argue strongly that, as an America, I should be allowed to go or live anywhere I want. And I meant it! But when driving through Vidor, Texas, I drove at the speed limit, stopped at all stopped signs, kept the radio volume down. Vidor is probably the whitest city in America, a hotbed of KKK activity.
Sonagi #20, I used to argue strongly that, as an America, I should be allowed to go or live anywhere I want. And I meant it! But when driving through Vidor, Texas, I drove at the speed limit, stopped at all stopped signs, kept the radio volume down. Vidor is probably the whitest city in America, a hotbed of KKK activity.
I am not particularly sentimental when it comes to flags. I wrote a piece more than a decade ago arguing that Congress should not ban flag-burning, that people should be allowed to burn their own flags.
True, of course. But as you know, Unionist sympathy was strongest in the Appalachian areas, and the state of West Virginia is a state because it seceded from Virginia out of loyalty to the Union. Which makes the Confederate flag somewhat amusing.
This kerfuffle is over an ad run in Thailand. The Thais remained a nominally independent country during the Pacific War, although they were forced to declare war on the Allies. I’m pretty sure the Japanese battle ensign doesn’t excite negative passions in old Siam.
Speaking of the Japanese battle ensign, anyone sensitive to it had better not go near any JMSDF ships since that’s what they fly every day.
As a kid, I used to love going to Oshkosh and one of the star attractions was the Confederate Air Force, which flew old B-17s, B-25s and the like. I see they are now called the “Commemorative Air Force.” Nobody thought twice about their name in the olden days. I suppose they were expanding beyond their Texas roots and wanted a less restrictive name, and no doubt were getting some self-appointed PC police grief which detracted from their mission.
Oh i thought the hotbeds of white supremacist activities were in heavily mixed areas like Cali/Nevada/Arizona. After all if they’re all white da fuck they have to whine about ?
In Europe generally it is the most multi-ethnic cities, places like Rotterdam, Marseille, Antwerp (the capital of Turkey according to a Belgian joke), Malmoe and Rome, where far right parties collect most of their votes
nayaCasey,
I think we can thank leftist Korean teachers for that.
Many teachers are members of National Teachers Union, which is an extremely leftist group.
They no doubt taught students that the Korean War was provoked by South Korea and the U.S. (While the students’ parents taught them it was purely North Korea’s aggression.)
So this probably left a lot of Korean students confused about the Korean War.
A 2004 survey of students at Korea Military Academy revealed something particularly shocking:
When asked which country was South Korea’s biggest enemy, 34% said the U.S., and 33% said North Korea. (!)
Of course, this was during the height of the leftist presidents’ rule, and things have changed quite a bit now, but still it’s shocking.
(Just goes to show how much influence teachers really have on the students.
Thankfully, the Lee administration has cracked down on the Nat’l Teachers Union these days.)
But.. regarding the Japanese imperial flag, there is no confusion.
YangachiBastardo #27, you could be right, those other places may have more Klan activity. Anyway, I only passed through Vidor about four or five times my own life–never stopped there so I can’t independently verify anything about it.
I just looked up Vidor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidor,_Texas
2000 census: “The racial makeup of the city was 97.33% White, 0.07% African American, 0.52% Native American, 0.19% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.66% from other races, and 1.21% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.49% of the population.”
Racism in Vidor
Vidor has had a reputation of being a sundown town, a place where African-Americans were excluded from being present after dark. African-Americans were effectively forbidden from living here since the 1920s after Ku Klux Klan supporters forced the last black residents to leave. In 1993, the U.S. government tried to end this racial separation by unsuccessfully locating 4 African-American families within the towns government funded housing project. The families moved away after Ku Klux Klan members publicly staged marches, cross-burnings and fund-raisers. A CNN article reported that prejudice is still a problem in Vidor; it quoted a white resident saying “as far as mingling and eating with [black neighbours ...] that’s where I draw the line”.
What about Girl Generation and the picture of them wearing military uniforms with swastikas? I wonder how long it will take for that story to make the news in the US and France (where the recently performed on talk shows)…Oh, right. Nobody cares because they aren’t exactly household names there.
the off-set naval ensign design is a beauty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval_Ensign_of_Japan.svg
But Korea thinks Hitlter / Nazi bars are OK…
http://dok.do/OlkkTf
http://dok.do/jH9n4X
http://dok.do/42KG2n
Nazis didn’t go rape and murder Asians.
’nuff said.
#33,
That’s quite the absurd comment – think about it, if you can.
Unfortunately #33 is right,
because Nazis didn’t commit atrocities in Asia ignorance about Nazis in Asia is a fact. It’s like if Jews set up a bar decked out with Imperial Japanese flags.
The owner of the “Hitler Bar” changed it to “Ditler”(LOL) than to “Cesar”
from http://www.pusanweb.com/feature/hitlerbar/
And also
http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=stu2217&logNo=80118104554
a blog on Hitler-themed bars and paraphernalias in Korea, India and Japan..
Cultural/historical insensitivites are (hopefully less and less) prevalent in both the East and the West. However, funny how when the Koreans did it (e.g. Hitler bar) it looks like a completely stupid frog-in-a-well kind of action, whereas when Germany sells Japanese empire flag earrings in a Berlin flea-market, it felt like I would come across as a nationalistic frog-in-a-well lampoon myself to point it out to the earring-seller.
Awareness of neighborhood crime rates should have put that notion to rest long before you went on a thrill-seeking drive through Vidor. In Korea I had near unlimited freedom of mobility, and even in China, the only limitation was the risk of a police shakedown for a bribe if I lived in cheap housing that used to be off-limits to foreigners.
That’s the most repulsive thing about this people: they’re probably passing all their shit down to their kids, who will have a fairly fucked up social life in a normal environment
Sonagi #37–thrill-seeking drive through Vidor? LOL!!! My thrills don’t include Klansmen (or even Klanswomen) on the menu. I had relatives in Beaumont and Lake Charles–Vidor was on the highway on the way to Houston. Of course, with GPS these days, I could probably program the “No KKK route” and avoid it…
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