Why, here it is:
What was that? Where’s the video for SNSD on Letterman?
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by Robert Koehler on February 1, 2012
Why, here it is:
Tagged as: David Letterman, Girls' Generation, Korean Wave, SNSD
Previous post: The ‘crooked dick’ defense? Really?
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{ 72 comments… read them below or add one }
Looks like Regis may have blown more than just his whistle…
Good for the Girls, If Britany can succeed singing god awful music then why can’t they
The YouTube hit counter for the clip seemed to get stuck at 306 views, but I’ve left the tab open and have been watching with awe at the speed at which comments and “likes” are rolling in. It was posted about 4-5 hours ago and is already approaching 10,000 likes. A new comment has been added…hmmm…I should do the math, but I’ll just estimate every 3-5 seconds. If anybody ever doubted that K-pop has a global and active fan base….It really is remarkable.
I’m reminded of George Harrison’s great quote from 1964. “America has everything. Why should they want us?”
And at the 1:30 mark: is it just the camera angle, or does Seohyun accidentally smack Sunny in the head?
And yes, I am ashamed that I can identify them by name.
I’m embarrassed to admit that I’m not embarrassed to say that I watched the video twice.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Singing in Korean helps mask the banality of the lyrics.
What’s the over/under for robotics surpassing the sensuality of those moves? The boys and girls at MIT have gotta be getting close…
@#5,
The Korean version of the song has better lyrics.
@#1,
What’s wrong with Britney Spears songs?
I’ll bite on 8, you got me….(only because I just finished a certain movie and can’t resist getting a reference in….)
There are three characters in the elevator scene of “Drive”,
the driver
the love interest
and the poor unfortunate soul (the thug) that I wish was replaced by
Britney….
LOL, so why Letterman show? It’s not the type of show where the younger crowd watches.
I think they should have kept the song a little shorter.
And holy shit, Bill Murray is old!!
This piece is not well written (by Atlantic Monthly standards) and needs a sharper focus, but makes a good point about how to market K-Pop in the West, predicting that the Wonder Girls are the ones who will make it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/01/does-korean-pop-actually-have-a-shot-at-success-in-the-us/252057/
South Korea! Where Korean women pretend to be “girls” while singing and dreaming about fiddling boys. The tallest “girl” looks anorexic.
# 10 cm,
Can’t 40-50 year old American men drool over “girls” too like Korean men(Uncles) and treat them like their daughters?
Can you say LIPSINC
As someone who knows less about pop culture than just about anyone alive, I have to say that I clicked on the video out of morbid curiosity, and I stopped at the 0:56 mark.
You gotta love any country — Korea or the United States — where one can succeed with so little talent. (Hey, I was living in London when the Spice Girls made the scene, so this is hardly new stuff.)
On the other hand, this is all just soft porn masquerading as entertainment. Why any self-respecting Korean male would be proud of their fellow countrywomen parading in front of a horny foreign audience is beyond me, but go figure.
DLB
Makes me wish I was young again!
Regis and Bill Murray look like they are the “girls” newest “sponsors”(per June Chang KBS English News Anchor). Regis could get lucky tonight, all he has to do is invite the “girls” onto his show, even though he’s retired. And, I’m sure Bill Murray could swindle them into into something as well by promising them a bit in his next lip-sinc and dance movie. Too bad the “girls” weren’t on tomorrow night when Howard Stern will be on for Dave’s 30th Anniversary show.
@#16,
I wasn’t going to use foul language at this forum, but…
F U.
@#13,
By the way, it’s LIP-SYNC, not LIPSINC.
Are you sure you’re an English teacher?
I don’t think you’re qualified enough.
Here is a self-described serious K-pop fan who really gets that “there is no there there” in the genre:
“But this in and of itself requires a delineation of what a singing group “done well” would look like, and thus brings me to the third and final obstacle: a noticeable lack of musical talent or originality. Believe me, I love SNSD, I appreciate the Wonder Girls, and I fangirl like it’s 1999 whenever they release something new into the Korean market. But no amount of love or fuzzy fangirl feelings is enough to cover up the harsh reality that both groups are lugging around some pretty hefty musical dead weight. And this is something that is not easily neutralized. While each member of SNSD and the Wonder Girls bring something to the overall dynamic of each group, it isn’t always raw musical talent, and this is an enormous problem for any debut in the US. In South Korea, idols don’t necessarily rely on their the quality of the music to sell a song; there are beautifully shot and dynamic music videos, variety show appearances, talk shows, CFs, and numerous other means of promotion. However, this element is largely absent from the US market. ” http://seoulbeats.com/2012/01/coming-to-america-snsd-vs-wonder-girls/
Jesus, everyone is going so serious over this. If they’re going to flop because they don’t have it, so what? Why the venom? Frankly I think it’s refreshing to see a different image of Asians on American TV than the one that’s been bandied about. Case in point, William Hung:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5eP0wWLQY&feature=player_embedded
whom, nobody minded (about his talent) when he debuted, except for Asian Americans.
I’ll take SNSD girls over William, 10 times out of 10. (no offense to William).
@#19,
While I do listen to K-pop, I don’t like it 100%.
Is K-pop perfect? Not by any means.
Could the songs and lyrics be better? Yes.
But I realize that it’s very hard to come up with new music these days. It’s because everything’s been done already.
I don’t think American pop is faring much better in that respect.
Do I think there’s too much emphasis on K-pop stars’ image and marketing? Yes.
But I don’t take K-pop too seriously. I take it for what it is, which is entertainment.
And I think (as a Korean at least) it’s more entertaining than most other things out there.
Do I care whether SNSD will succeed in America or not? No.
As long as they keep singing songs in Korean, I’ll be happy.
I do appreciate SNSD, because they’re the most talented girl group in K-pop (most of them can sing well).
I get Partridge Family flashbacks from 1970 when I think of girl and boy bands put together for reasons other than musicality.
(In the case of SNSD, what do the 2 tall girls who are not all that hot looking and don’t sing much — or didn’t on Letterman, at least — actually do?)
That said, the soft power element of this for Korea is interesting and IMHO bears more attention than the acts themselves.
For those who know Gee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKmYVURBZrM
Listen, I like Girls’ Generation, and I like them a lot, but I don’t like this. I like them as a kpop group. Similar to what was said in post #5, a lot of this just doesn’t work in America. It looks/sounds somewhat… stupid.
I would much rather see somebody like IU making a debut in the states.
Also, Billy Murray has this look on his face like he’s having flashbacks to Lost in Translation.
SO many waygooks are butthurt over some kpop shit.
I’m laughing my fucking ass off.
I’m essentially just going to plagiarize myself for a comment on I left on Roboseyo’s blog that’s awaitinng moderation there (Rob, I hope you’ll still publish it there, and if you happen to see this first, cut and paste to eliminate my numerous typos from writing at 4 a.m. in a jet-lag addled haze).
I agree with pretty much all that has said [the discussion there was on the impossibility of “taking over” the American market; the essence of K-pop as a commodity to make money for entertainment conglomerates and foster brand nationalism], except for the fact that despite being primarily a punk/indie fan, I’ve come to enjoy a number of K-pop songs over the last couple of years–but I’d better, since I do research on it. At first I had to grit my teeth, but now, no doubt about it, I’ve acquired the taste and I also think the songwriting has improved to some extent (“Bubble Pop” isn’t just eye candy; it’s a catchy tune, dangit….).
But I’m with Roboseyo, you have to recognize K-pop for what it is–a manufactured product, not organically created music based on grit and passion, which are the qualities I value most highly in music. But the visuals and infectious spirit of K-pop and its ability to engage people across a–let’s give credit where credit is due—broad international spectrum are not be sneezed at. I know music and musical genres more deeply than pretty much anyone else I know—this is not meant to be a boast, but to give an idea of the issues here: I’ve played bass guitar in three bands in two countries over the course of my life, have released EPs, played well-known local alternative clubs, been a college radio DJ, etc., and still invest a huge amount of time listening too new music, creating eclectic YouTube playlists for friends and for my own edification, etc., but there is now too much music globally for anyone anywhere to become a global phenomenon even like Michael Jackson or Madonna did in the ’80s. The Justin Biebers and Lady Ga-ga’s of the world are nowhere in the same league in terms of cross-demographic appeal and awareness. Our current technologies and the nature of musical production allow for too much diversity. I regularly stumble across songs that I like by artists I’ve never heard of and then see that the YT hit count for the song over a million. Musical aims have to be more modest, and even, say, K-pop’s admitted success in Japan has to be kept in perspective. The phenomenon is real; quantifying it and its effects is much more difficult.
I’ll close with a great story I recently heard from a friend which gives a clear idea of just what the issues are (and also even points to such things as the fragmentation of “(neo)liberal democracies” like the US): my friend’s friend was telling his 9- year old son about the fact that when he grew up there were only 3 network channels on TV plus a couple of local stations to watch on UHF for reruns in contrast to the 200-300 or whatever channels one can readily now pull up on cable if one is keen to, and his son’s response was “Wow, Dad, you really must have had to spend a lot of time on the internet!”
Here’s a serious analysis since we’re getting serious here.
What attracts non-Koreans who are into Kpop are that they sing in Korean and project a Korean image. As soon as they get away from that, they’ll lose their supporters. But then again, if they sing in English, they’ll never have hope in gaining traction in America. And if they do sing in English, they’ll just be a copy of American music and will never be accepted.
In summary: it’s obvious they’ll never make it, whatever they do. America is not friendly toward foreign language acts.
They should be just happy to have the Asian market, and the slice of the specialty mania market outside of Asia and they should just stick to what they started out as.
Correction: “But then again, if they DON’T sing in English, they’ll never have hope in gaining traction in America.”
Was also on Live! With Kelly.
http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/3589/20120201/snsd-girls-generation-new-york-live-with-kelly-howie-mandel-kelly.htm
cm @ #10,
Giggles…. do you REALLY think all of SNSD fans are teenagers? Do you have ANY idea how many over 30 y/o men stalk SNSD on youtube?
@ numberoneoppah # 25.
I agree. IU has more talent in the tip of her little pinky than these nine girls combined.
See IU, a native Korean speaker, totally outclass Jessica of SNSD, a native English speaker, on a cover to an AMERICAN song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlPvkJzuh-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igv-UILxOi0&feature=related
#32 – I don’t know WK, I think both of them sound pretty good.
IU may sound better to you because her voice matches closest to the original song. But Jessica maybe more suited to American tastes at this point because she’s older, while IU still looks like a little pre-teen girl.
But have you seen and heard the latest episodes of the K-Pop star auditions? A lot of those auditioning are so young, but holy cow, do they have some pretty good voices coming down the pipe.
Michelle Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMeAmryerDw
Park Jemin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH8aUDrJ8jo&feature=related
@cm What attracts non-Koreans who are into Kpop are that they sing in Korean and project a Korean image.
I think it is the quality of the videos, the scantily-clad attractive girls (and boys, for some) and writhing and suggestive dancing — a friend discussing this today said “making sluttiness more palatable” — but I agree that the Koreanness adds to the mystique. Odd English as garnish seems to work, but a full song in English like “The Boys” removes this mystique and highlights the banality of the lyrics, even by lite pop standards.
“And if they do sing in English, they’ll just be a copy of American music and will never be accepted.” The “Uncanny Valley” phenomenon.
That Atlantic Monthly piece I posted above suggests that the best way to market K-Pop is to aim for the tweeners, which worked well enough for the Wonder Girls, when they opened for the Jonas Brothers. That might hurt the egos of the singers involved, but it would be lucrative and would probably have a long-term benefit for Korea.
That performance was so much better, WangKon. I guess having enough space on stage made a big difference, because not only was the dancing better, but they seemed more positive and energetic.
I also agree with the idea that you shouldn’t look at Korean pop in the same way as you would American pop. If you like pop music already, then just enjoy it on its own merits, and you won’t be disappointed. And, if you’re not a fan of pop music, then don’t bemoan the Korean variant for its different take. After all, if you don’t care for what anyone else in the pop music business is putting out, you might want to own up to a lack of objectivity when discussing K-pop’s distinct flavor.
Very well said. These have by my thoughts as well when thinking about K pop and its prospects globally. I think too often discussants here at the MH forget this structural element when we have this particular discussion.
BTW, for those of you who read Korean, do check out 이동연’s “케이팝 오디세이” series over at the Pressian. Thus far, I think he’s been doing a fine job of analyzing this phenomenon.
This could work in America but there’s just too damn many of them. When I watch them perform I can tell they’re all hot but you can’t focus or latch onto just one of them because then another takes center stage and then you try to latch on to her. You’re eyes are all over the place trying to figure out which one you like the best. By the time the performance is over you realize you didn’t really hear the song and you still don’t have a favorite.
The more ingredients you put in a soup doesn’t make it taste better.
I object to the misappropriation of the word “K pop.” The word “pop” refers to “popular music,” which covers a far larger territory than the types of music produced by SNSD.
Reading the comments was as much fun as watching Sooyoung.
Instead of Regis & Murray kicking a field goal they should have done a Oh! Gag Concert style.
This will be one and done for SNSD but it’s not everyday one gets to go to the other side of the globe for 10 minutes of tv time.
BoA didn’t make it in the USA so I will be disappointed if SNSD does.
Yet, Spanish singers (singing in English) seem to do well in America. I’ll date myself, but when I was listening to music there, I remember Enrique, Martin and Shakira all having fairly popular songs and still releasing Spanish language songs and albums as well.
I realize there is a large Spanish speaking population in America, but the Korean and Asian population in America continues to grow.
According to recent demographics, 4.7% of the US is Asian, 16.3% is hispanic/latino.
If they stick to California and NY where they are concentrated they should be able to enjoy moderate success at the least.
The Marmot’s Hole: Waygooks butthurt over K-pop, since 2003.
PS: Just out of curiosity, you, too, are a “waygook,” no?
Big Oops,
My comment on #18 was meant for jkitchstk @ #17, not #16.
My apologies to Railwaycharm..
Why do I feel like discussing the merits pf a particular pop group is like discussing the athleticism of a particular pro wrestler?
Anyway, best of luck to the Wondergi- wait, who is this again?
Se7en is also the talk of the town. Koreans should be so proud. He released a new CD Feb. 1st, and it’s on top of itunes (Soul music, album) chart. Of course it’s headline news…
‘Se7en tops iTune’s R&B chart in U.S., 2nd in Canada’
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20120201001271
But why isn’t ‘Korea’ one of 22 countries on the chart? Japan is, so why isn’t Korea? And don’t tell me it’s because Apple doesn’t like Samsung, Korea has been missing since before the lawsuits.
http://www.apple.com/euro/itunes/charts/top10soulalbums.html
# 43,
Damn, I thought you’d never notice
Wait, it’s not my fault.
Seth Gecko’s comment @ #11 must’ve been awaiting moderation, and then popped up after I posted my comment #17, making #16 into #17 and #17 into #18 and so forth.
Ugh, must remember to mention the user ID and comment number of the comment I’m responding to.
“SO many waygooks are butthurt over some kpop shit.
I’m laughing my fucking ass off.
The Marmot’s Hole: Waygooks butthurt over K-pop, since 2003.”
Gross misuse of the word “butthurt,” really.
I do like “The Boys” better in the Korean language, not just lyrically but also phonetically. Sounds better.
Kpop is hawt and fashionable, which is to say it’s good quality music, that features high production values, the best choreography in the world, and a very addicting impulse about it in how vibrant the industry and its fanbase are — from all the stage performances, to the new MVs, and dances, and the show appearances, and such; and on the fan side, all the reaction videos, covers, vocal, dance, musical instrument covers. — It’s an entertainment industry and socio cultural phenomena driven by sexual attraction for 1) Asian women but, and perhaps more so, 2) for Asian men; and interest in this industry is sustained by prolific organization of massive resources (read high production values, fashionable trends, and high degree of activity).
Which again is to say that Kpop is hawt. So hawt it’s even gotten onto mainstream American TV.
“Why any self-respecting Korean male would be proud of their fellow countrywomen parading in front of a horny foreign audience is beyond me, but go figure.”
@15 Is that you Pawi?
lol.
This seems to be a huge issue in all the Korea related blogs.
For instance, look here
http://roboseyo.blogspot.com/2012/02/girls-generation-on-letterman.html
http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/02/on-the-embarrassing-debut-of-girls-generation-on-letterman-and-culture-codes.html
This is a bigger news than the news itself in Korea,
Rest assured, I don’t think SNSD has announced they’re out to debut in the American market which I think would be a mistake for them. They’re just out to test the waters to see what the responses are going to be. So there’s no need to go and make a deal! Now if they did go and announce they’re debuting, then that’s a different story.
I think it’s funny that of all things that can irritate Westerners living in Korea…. it’s KPOP that just about tops the list of irritants.
@ 49, more like Netizen Kim.
cm,
I thought roboseyo’s take was very balanced and fair. The Metropolitician? Eh… he doesn’t exactly live in a place called planet earth and on top of that he has a geocentric view of himself. Some people will never be happy unless it’s making fun of other people’s failures. It’s a lot easier than being happy for other people’s successes… at least for them it is.
#52 – WK, I wasn’t talking about the content. It’s funny, the reaction to KPOP act showing up in Letterman show. I mean… what’s the big deal? Why is everyone so serious like if this is a matter of life and death? It’s just a flash in the pan show for god sakes. Can’t we just enjoy it for what it is without all these analysis?
slim @ #23,
SNSD’s latest song “The Boys” doesn’t have as much singing as their previous songs. This time they decided to add more rap parts.
But if you search on Youtube and check out their previous songs, you’ll find that each member has a singing part, however short.
racketbaler @ #38,
That’s exactly what I thought the first time I saw SNSD. But as you become fond of them, you’ll realize that their number is a plus, not a minus.
Japan’s top girl group, AKB48, actually has 59 (!) members.
It is pretty funny, ain’t it?
Robert @ #55,
Well, not necessarily.
Not all K-pop songs are good.
Songs and groups are being mass-produced these days, so it’s kinda hard to find quality.
If I had to listen to bad K-pop songs all day long, I think I’d get pretty annoyed too.
ha
“Songs and groups are being mass-produced these days, so it’s kinda hard to find quality.” These days? There were other days?
Following the links at Roboseyo’s numerous posts on the topic and some that cm provided here suggests to me that future generations of these acts will have real professional-level vocal abilities and there might be less emphasis on physical appearance, robotic choreography and the factory-produced homogenous look and sound that defines the genre today (for non-fans at least).
slim @#57,
Korean music has a long history.
For as long as Koreans have existed, so has Korean music.
I remember back in the 80′s, Korean music was quite different.
(there weren’t any boy groups or girl groups or anything. I think they were mostly solo artists. The first Korean group, named 소방차, debuted in 1987 I believe.)
IMO, K-pop began to be heavily influenced by American pop starting in the late 90′s. That’s when I started listening to it.
Who knows how K-pop will evolve in the future..
One of them should have an affair with a US R&B singer, only chance they can land a career there.
Two of them or the whole nine of them at the same time on a video tape would probably work better though.
There will be a short-term spike in yellow fever diagnoses. And that’s about it.
May Don Cornelius rest in peace and not turn too often in his grave. He brought real talent, fun and inspiration to my generation in Philly.
judge judy #61, Don Cornelius probably would have welcomed SNSD on the show. She’s not Korean, but I guess Cheryl Song could have joined them on stage…
As I recall, a lot of black people were embarrassed about Soul Train back in the day, but even some of my relatives who didn’t like it then are nostalgic about it, trying to deny what they used to say. The same kind of thing will probably happen with K-Pop, people bitching about it now will fondly recall when SNSD made their first appearance on Letterman, when the Wonder Girls went international, etc.
I suppose one of the historians here may have written about them at some point…
The Korean Kittens from early 1960s
The Kim Sisters on Ed Sullivan early 1960s
All popular Korean musics started with Minyo (folk music) and Korean R&B (Pansori) and poetry with Gayageum (Sillageum, Koryogeum – instrument with strings). Minyo went to Japan became Enka (started by Korean immigrant in Japan) and came back as Trot in Korea in early days of 1900s. That was Korean musics and Pansori. Then this K-pop – all Americanzied. I still prefers Ballads, Jazz and Trot over K-pop.
Back during the 1990s, I remember hearing expats say that Korean men should stop acting like Korean women were their possessions, that Korean women should be free to date, marry, or have careers without needing the approval of the Korean male population. So I suppose it is progress…
they don’t have to have Korean men’s approval, but that don’t mean the men have to be proud of them.
Well, okay, so they don’t have to be proud. For the Korean men who like SNSD, why should they care if some other men are ogling them, too? I would say it would be strange for Korean men who like SNSD to be praising them, then upset that men from other countries also want to look at them. I can look at Beyonce shake her money-maker all day long–it would be crazy for me to get upset about some white or Asian guys (or girls) doing the same. They’ve got eyes like I do, let ‘em look.
“Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone somewhere may be having a good time.”
–H.L. Mencken
Question for cm @50.
If they released their first album in America and made a network television debut, what is it about the word “debut” that you do not understand?
Well, maybe it has something to do with Korea’s ethnic homogeneity. (Koreans are just not used to that sort of thing. Interracial marriages also feel very alien to most Koreans.)
Also, these girls debuted at a young age, when they were still in school.
So maybe Korean men feel protective of them.
jk6411 #69–That collectivist mind-set of Koreans you are referring to is probably still there, I don’t doubt that. There are always Tribal Worriers wringing their hands about what outsiders may think of them. I suppose SNSD would politely thank them for their concern, sign autographs,then return to the show…
” Question for cm @50.
If they released their first album in America and made a network television debut, what is it about the word “debut” that you do not understand?”
Red Sparrow, SNSD released the album “The Boys” last year. It was not a US release. It was a “world wide” release. Their agents also did not do any promotion in the US, like the Wonder Girls. SNSD made couple of guest appearances on US TV, but I’m not aware of any US wide concert tours. I think their promoters are being very cautious, testing the waters out before plunging in fully, but I would not consider appearing on Letterman a full debut.
#63,
I liked those old video clips of the “The Korean Kittens” and “The Kim Sisters.” The look and voices of the Korean Kittens reminded me of the Korean girls I knew back in the 1970s.
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