It is being reported that Kim Jong Il has died. YTN is reporting that the government news agency held a special broadcast at 12:00 for a special announcement but that the contents of that announcement are not quite clear. KBS is also reporting that he has died. Details are still sketchy at this point.
UPDATE (12:33) : Most articles are placing him dying last Saturday (December 17) at around 08:30 AM. Though with everyone in the country simultaneously checking the articles of online papers, both information and access is quite limited at this point. Sources say he died of a sudden illness (급병) which could point to a heart attack, stroke or aneurism. He was reportedly out and about for “on-site leadership” (현지지도) when he succumbed to the demands of his physical labor.
UPDATE II (12:36) : As Aaron mentioned in the comments, South Korean Forces have been put on high-alert, which shouldn’t frighten anyone as a similar precaution was taken when Kim Il Sung passed as well.
UPDATE III (12:38) : The KOSPI is taking a large hit following the news and of course it’s foreigners who are to blame.
UPDATE IV: (by Robert Koehler): The North Korean report also named Kim Jong-un as his father’s successor.
Update V (12:44) : Critics are citing this as a major intelligence failure on the part of the president and the current government. They assert that with an incident this big occurring on the peninsula two days ago that the president should have had prior knowledge of it. (Critics are using the fact that 2MB is in Japan now as a sign that he was unaware of the death or the fact that today would be the announcement.) *I lost the link when Robert and I simultaneously-posted. I’ll try and find it again later.
Update VI (12:56) : CNN and the NY Times just got their initial articles on the topic up.
Update VII (13:14) : KBS world is reporting the cause of death as an acute myocardial infarction:
The Korean Central News Agency said the 69-year-old died of an acute myocardial infarction, which triggered a heart attack, following all possible emergency treatment. The central news agency said an autopsy was performed Sunday to confirm the cause of death.
A 232-member funeral committee formed for Kim issued a statement saying a service will held for the North Korean leader on December 28th. The committee also said his body is lying in state at the Gumsusan Memorial Palace in Pyongyang.
UPDATE VIII (by Robert Koehler): Obama’s been informed, so I guess it’s official now. Oh, and not sure if the State Department runs a ghoul pool, but if so, Assistant Secretary of State Kurt Campbell might be in for a good payday for accurately predicting when Kim would croak in 2009.
UPDATE IX (by Robert Koehler): The Joint Chiefs says they’ve yet to notice anything unusual from the North Korean military. Still, they’ve asked the Americans to up the number of U2 flights.
UPDATE X (14:18) : (HT to Kimchee GI) A video has gone up on Youtube of the actual announcement made by the North Korean Central News Agency.
{ 174 comments… read them below or add one }
I’ll believe it when I see him resurrect.
It’s about time. Finally!
It’s all over South Korean news.
We are getting closer to freedom for the North Korean people.
Now what?
Cm wrote (#2):
Over China’s dead body.
Do you ever say anything sensible, Bevers?
No, he never does.
#3, the fat boy doesn’t have the wide support backing of the NK henchmen. He’s going to flounder badly and will be brought down soon. There will be a power struggle and North Korea will collapse. I’m sure China will do its best, up to no good, as usual.
My secret operatives have finally accomplished their task and can now come in from the cold . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I hope that leadership remembers that freedom need not necessarily equal unification.
How many factions are there in NK right now? Gut feeling says there’s an intra-NK war imminent.
Yonhap has a headline but no article yet saying S.Korean military put on alert.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2011/12/19/37/0301000000AEN20111219004900315F.HTML
News will be exciting in the coming weeks.
KOSPI stocks are crashing, as the shock reverberates and investors worry North Koreans crashing through the DMZ to make South Korea uninhabitable. Idiots. They should be celebrating this, instead… disgusting.
@5
While not eloquent it is probably the most relevant and interesting question that can be asked.
#14 thanks, TheGoat!
#9, it will, though. It is inevitable. Ask Lankov.
2011 should go down as a record year in regime changes in both the third world (Bin Laden, Egypt, Libya, North Korea, etc) and the declining European world (Greece, Italy, Spain, etc).
Another victory for Obama?
Hamel (#15),
I think The Goat was referring to my question in #3
Funeral is set for Dec. 28. They’re not accepting foreign delegations, though:
http://news.donga.com/Politics/New/3/00/20111219/42717162/1
hamel,
was just saying that while there are plenty of reasons to pick on gbevers, that comment was not one of em (as I assume your post was dripping with sarcasm).
I don’t expect any trouble today. But when one or more Generals decide that they don’t wish to be executed with their families, trouble will begin…
That little cocksucker is finally where he belongs, smoking a turd in hell with Hitler.
One downed two more to go, Kim Jong Un is next!
Then nuking Beijing is after! Then I’ll party all year!
cm # 16: Yes, but 2012 will go down as the year of precarious/disastrous attempts at instituting successor regimes. Let’s hope they go well.
Koreansentry, Prease reaving da Austraria. You are da row crass Colean.
This is at once wonderful and terrifying. Will Kim the Younger have enough of a grip on power or will this be a prelude to sudden reunification, with the attendant refugee crisis and a possible showdown with China? The ROK government had better have the wisdom and the balls to navigate through this.
#13,
You don’t know how the local stock market functions, do you?
They are waiting for the stocks to hit bottom before buying them at bargain prices and them sell them when it bounces back a few days, a couple of weeks later max, for a quick profit. It’s a pattern I call the NK Fluctuation. It has made me a lot of money over the years.
So, trust me, they are definitely celebrating.
Lmao, Aaron.
At about 11 am I watched what I thought was a big commercial airliner pull a 180 over Gangneung and head back toward Seoul. I just happened to glance up and thought it was pretty odd.
What are the chances the pilot was instructed to return and land in Incheon or Gimpo?
Great, now we have to watch NK folks effusively fake crying on the streets again.
If North Koreans had a heart, instead of crying, they’d take to the streets and cause a once and for all havoc. I’m talking about a revolution. 2011 isn’t over yet. But they don’t. They are too weak and too brainwashed and just too stupid.
Please prove me wrong, North Koreans. I like contrary catch-22s. Win, win.
Hold on to your butts people. We might be in for a bumpy ride.
Also, it’s nice to see our fellow MH denizens commencing with the sniping in only a few comments. I’m sure all take part in it as well soon enough.
Until then, ciao.
@McGenghis – Since the announcement came out at 12 AM and returning to Incheon/Gimpo would actually expose it to more danger than continuing on its path towards Japan I am going to say this was likely not the reason for the divert.
Poor LMB, it’s been interesting to see the things that have happened during his rule.
1. 2008 financial crisis that derailed his 747 plan.
2. 2008 Mad Cow fiasco with the opposition
3. 2008 S.Korean financial crisis
4. 2010 S.Korean navy vessel sinking
5. 2010 S.Korea attacked by North Korean artillery
6. 2011 European debt crisis
7. 2011 FTA fiasco with the opposition
8. now add Kim Jong Il Death, 2011
Yet S.Korea under his leadership has come out left standing and still relatively in good shape despite all that’s been thrown against it.
To paraphrase what αβγδε said, I really, really want to be wrong on this, but if I were a betting man, I’d put my money on “nothing much changing” in the post-KJI world.
It’ll be interesting to see how North Koreans react now that it’s official, though.
#29,
My guess is that some, if not all, of the initial footage of folks crying in the streets being broadcast was probably shot years ago with actors.
I wonder how many US newspapers will speculate on Kim Jong III’s coronation?
Also, I foresee a sudden warming in United States-DPRK relations. We have so much in common now.
Both countries now have a callow, unseasoned leader who appeared out of nowhere, whose formative childhood years overseas and elite private-school education have left him wholly out of touch with the concerns of his country’s people, and whose unopposed ascension to his country’s Presidency was made possible by the extinguishment of political opponents, by multiple hagiographies, and by a slavering press corps unwilling or unable to question or criticize.
Kim Jong Un or Barack Obama? I mean in a way [he]‘s standing above the country, above above the world, he’s sort of God.
Somehow I think the North Koreans will deal with theirs better. At the very least, I bet Kim Jong Un backs away from Marxism earlier than our guy.
αβγδε, unless you were in a life or death revolution I would keep my mouth shut before insulting the North Korean populace. I’d like to see you do anything if you were in a similar situation. Chances are, you would do nothing. It’s easy to talk shit when you’re on the sidelines. As much as I’d love to see the North Korean regime fall, I don’t blame the suffering North Korean people for their lot in life.
As was expected, this development came unexpectedly – as may be the case with other cascading events. In all likelihood, there probably was adequate time to get at least the short-term political apparatus built around Kim Jong-Un that may enable him to survive his father’s demise. But after that, we are back to admitting how little we understand what’s going in North Korea.
But one highly probable development for the immediate future is Dear Leader’s death is not going to play well in North Korea’s international relations. Yes, Kim Jong-Un was educated in Switzerland, but most of his political infrastructural personnel have traveled much less extensively than a prior generation of DPRK technocrats who regularly visited the USSR and its Eastern Bloc countries. That means the current leadership is much more insular and probably more paranoid about the outside world. Should that be the case, North Korea may prove more resistant to change than in the recent past.
There is also a minor parallel with Kim Jong-Il’s sudden demise with that of his father’s. In today’s papers we learned that North Koreans had offered to suspend enriching uranium as gesture to restart discussions with the US. Kim Il-Sung made motions of moving away from the nuclear program immediately before his death. We find ourselves with yet another morbid example of history repeating itself.
South Korea has surely planned for the sudden death of Kim, but I wonder how imaginative her plans are.
Now is the time for South Korea to propose a new generous Peace Treaty with the North while painting a grand vision for a new and prosperous relationship. By doing so, the South might, at least, help fracture the North Korean regime into diehards and those hoping for a new era of freedom and prosperity. By offering nothing South Korea may end up getting the same old North Korea.
I’m just shocked over some Korean netizen’s reaction on this matter. There must be 20 millions of Pro NK, at least, living in Korea. Wow
@36 Counselor, you nailed it! This is serendipity for the armed forces hating Obama. This will give Obie even more opportunity to alienate a good ally by pandering to the Norks.
#37: “As much as I’d love to see the North Korean regime fall, I don’t blame the suffering North Korean people for their lot in life.”
You get the government you deserve.
#36: The parallels are eerie.
If I were a North Korean and you, Bodoblock, had made that argument to me, I think I’d spit at your face.
Your sort of coddling apologetics is to tell a people they are on par with dogs and livestock, and are less than capable human beings.
Fuck you.
I doubt that there’ll be any popular uprising of the sort seen in the Arab Spring. The urbanized region is only about 20 percent of the population, and most city dwellers are loyal to the regime since they live better there than rural people do in the countryside. The rural areas, collectively accounting for 80 of the population, are isolated from each other — rural folk lack cell phones, for instance, the roads are very poor, and there is almost no transportation. Also, people’s attention is focused on day-to-day survival. Moreover, the North Korean people have no experience with democracy, having inherited patterns of submissive behavior from experience and from Confucianism.
However, Kim Jong-eun has not yet managed to consolidate power, so expect a power struggle. Things could get very bloody.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
#13, 26 The fluctuations are based on sudden uncertainty in the market. Often foreign or more risk averse investors exit, while local more knowledgable investors such as #26 buy.
This happened time and again following major NK events….but one day…maybe one day, shit may really happen. The risk averse foreign investors will be happy to have exited..while those playing ‘local’ arbitrage may not fare so well.
#36,
Could be worse. Just look at the clown we’ve got as Prime Minister in Canada.
αβγδε, oh so now you’re a champion of the integrity and dignity of the North Korean people? Stop talking out of your ass. These people are living under brutal conditions so sick and repressive that neither you nor I could probably ever fathom going through such an existence. So do I understand why they are afraid? Do I understand why there haven’t been en masse rebellions? Of course I fucking do. No, but for you, the North Korean people are too “stupid” and “weak.” I’d love to see a revolution. I’d love to see these people assert their right to live free lives. But never do I say that these people are in any way inferior in their strength or intellect. That was you. They are afraid, not inferior. Can you blame them for being afraid when you yourself probably would be just as fearful? So take that “fuck you” and go shove it up your ass.
#40 Well young south koreans netizens have reasons to worry, less Vuitton bags if you have to pay to feed/build the North. And maybe then papa and mama will not let their son stay at home on the internet all day. Same goes if China integrates the north.
This will be an exciting era now
#47,
That’s the thing. It’s not just foreign investors but also the local ones too who are waiting a day or two to jump back in.
Either way, I probably won’t be investing much this time around. My guess is that the slump will be a short-lived one because they’ve been preparing for his demise for a couple of years. People have known he was standing on his last leg for a while. So, frankly, news of his death will only create minor ripples in the markets.
We’ll know for sure tomorrow morning (my guess is that the after-hours trading might have eroded the potential for profit by then).
Besides, the markets have been very volatile this year, so I’ve turned to real estate. It’s been a very good year for me thanks to it.
Wedge — Both guys have been praised their whole lives for their peerless accomplishments unaccompanied by any record of actual peerless accomplishments.
Both guys have a mysterious childhood and young adulthood about which little is known. There are no college transcripts available for either one. Both graduated from their respective country’s greatest institution for inculcating leftist orthodoxy, which serves as a ticket to the ruling class.
Both are reportedly big fans of basketball and the NBA. (I can’t wait for Kim Jong Un’s NCAA bracket!)
Don’t forget the schoolchildren spontaneously singing carols in praise of the leader. My favorite is Kim Jong Un! Mmm mmm mmm. No, wait…
Full update on the story over at the blog – http://www.asiapundits.com/regions/korea/breaking-news-kim-jung-il-dead-after-heart-attack/
If anyone is interested, I have my reactions and some predictions up on my blog:
http://coryinkorea.wordpress.com/2011/12/19/the-obvious-news-and-my-opinions-on-the-future/
I would personally like to thank the elite US Seal Team 6 for infiltrating his Pyongyang compound and assassinating Kim Jong Il.
they also both like jimjilbangs http://hillbuzz.org/is-barack-obama-gay-part-iii-whats-it-like-inside-a-chicago-gay-bathhouse-like-the-one-obama-used-to-frequent-as-a-state-senator-40623
I wonder how Kim Jong Un ranks himself against Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, King Sejong, Yi Sun Shin and Ulchi Mundok.
Barack Obama’s already declared himself ready for the pantheon of the greats. Greater still than Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson — even George Washington!
Is there still room on Mount Rushmore? We probably ought to set aside some stimulus money now. Think of the jobs!
I can now end my concern for North Korea with dignity. Kim Jong-il is dead!
http://wp.me/p1LhUa-2h5
I’m sure KJI will rank up there with Stalin and Mao for the coveted most-murdering crown!
We had Great Leader and Dear Leader. I read a suggestion somewhere else for the next one: “Last Leader.”
I am looking forward to hearing what Jay Leno, David Letterman, and the other late night guys have to say about Kim Jong-il’s death.
I’ll settle for “Good Leader”. And, I hope there are other good leaders in the world. Something warns me that none of the current crop of gnomes has any clue about how to take advantage of this boon.
How many boulevards and schools will be renamed for Kim Jong Un? There are already 11 American schools named for Barack Obama, plus two in his birth country of Kenya.
My hometown of St. Louis has renamed a strip of Delmar Boulevard — a desolate urban street which serves as a kind of no-man’s-land, north of which one ventures at the risk of one’s life — as Barack Obama Boulevard. Which street in Pyongyang will be named for Kim Jong Un? All of them?
A heart attack sounds like a death much more quick and painless than I would have preferred for the tubby dictator.
“if I were a betting man, I’d put my money on “nothing much changing” in the post-KJI world.”
I agree.
#61: I’m looking forward to their unemployment now that such an easy target is lost for them.
Who needs humor at a time like this? Celebrate! I’m getting some cognac, some oysters, some actresses….
Wedge — Oh yeah! Each guy has been known as “[Blank] Leader”. Utah Gov. (and Ambassador to China) Jon Huntsman penned a love letter in August 2009 in which Huntsman praised Obama as a “Remarkable Leader”.
Plus, our State Department spent all manner of money on Google Ads pointing foreigners to America.gov, where they could learn about the “amazing leader” Barack Obama.
Both guys’ governments have a marked tendency to distribute copies of the leader’s books.
Bodo, you’re a fucking idiot.
North Koreans would have to fall into at least one of the categories I marked above and collectively they are all those.
- If you can’t uprise, then you are weak. If you think you shouldn’t uprise, then you are stupid. If you think Kim Jong Il was Jesus Christ, then you’re brainwashed. (Ditto, BTW, for those who think Jesus Christ was Jesus Christ!) If you can but you don’t uprise, then you are a villain. If you can and know you should uprise, then you’re a hypocrite. I’m sure the types above fluctuate just enough to create the practical possibility of revolution — practical inasmuch as North Koreans be courageous.
Revolution is something (capable) people are capable of. That’s an insight you lack. And as you can’t understand my frustration, then you might as well be talking about a nation of handicaps. That’s sure how you make them sound.
Jesus Christ covered in afterbirth, could you guys talk about something relevant and leave your senseless anti-Obama drivel for your Facebook pages and FOX News Forums?
OK, “fatigue?” Who wants to bet he went to sleep in a sealed railway car with the fan on?
Citizens of both countries expect to receive goodies straight out of the leader’s personal stash.
Brendon: I don’t like Barry any more than you do, but this sort of rhetoric is just silly. What about Lincoln’s transcripts – whoops, weren’t any; never even went to grammar school – or Roosevelt’s – “gentleman’s Cs at best). Barry didn’t get into Harvard Law with sub-standard grades, and he did very well there – Law Review. And God knows, HLS is no bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This sort of Limbaugh posturing is beneath you.
# 48
“Could be worse. Just look at the clown we’ve got as Prime Minister in Canada.”
Please explain yourself more. Both government in the world would you consider more competent than Stephen Harper and the ruling conservatives in Canada?
# 48
“Could be worse. Just look at the clown we’ve got as Prime Minister in Canada.”
Please explain yourself more. What government in the world would you consider more competent than Stephen Harper and the ruling conservatives in Canada?
Sperwer — That’s right, I’m enjoying the silliness of the parallels. Don’t worry, I don’t think those two elementary schools are in Obama’s birth country of Kenya either.
깊은 구멍 속에 “Jesus Christ covered in afterbirth, could you guys talk about something relevant and leave your senseless anti-Obama drivel for your Facebook pages.”"
Yeah, apparently the only people who think about Obama as much as Obama himself are Wedge and Carr.
Wouldn’t go that far, even if some reactions are, well, perplexing:
http://news.fnnews.com/view_news/2011/12/19/111219151439.html
And of course you, αβγδε, are a renown genius who has both the penetrating insight and intellectual prowess to categorically label people left and right. Forgive me, your insightfulness. Frustration is understandable, treating something as structurally far reaching and transformative as a revolution as something so black and white is not. But of course, you of all people know far better than I, a lowly “idiot,” and most definitely better than all North Koreans.
http://cfile247.uf.daum.net/image/2023E3424EEEC784295664
Some people are happy
What the hell just happened in this thread? Was the death of KJI supposed to be a call-to-arms for Birthers and their ilk to trot out their hobbyhorses or has the death of a stumpy ill-formed creature simply brought out the in troll in some of us?
Oh the joys of listening to our esteemed counsel B.Carr, international lawyer of renown, wax lyrical about so-called elites? Do your brood go to the local government school in Seoul? Anyhow, out before the Tea Party cirle jerk reaches the terminal facial phase.
Has anyone heard how TK’s boys (i.e. the “progressives”) are taking it? Weeping? Rending their garments? Calling it a diabolical Japano-American conspiracy? All of the above?
Y’all is free to skip whichever comments you want, if you doesn’t find ‘em worthwhile. I’ve been skipping wiessej‘s, for example.
missouri is the show me state. it’s also the meth capital of america.
Damn! I could have had me a much different summer vacation!
these fellas are from missouri. this is probably more up your alley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7UCNYnp3o&feature=player_detailpage#t=100s
It’s a shame he died of a heart attack. Heart attacks are fairly quick and not really that painful. It would have been far better if he had had a long and very painful illness to cause the scumbag’s demise.
I, for one, don’t expect his death to cause much change. The military and ruling classes will still remain in control. If anything NK will probably become even more of an insular regime. The general populace are powerless there to effect change, a military coup would be the only way that things will change.
Brendon, didn’t you say that you weren’t a ‘birther’ a few days ago?
Robert:
Bingo.
Sperwer:
Just silly? My eyes are bleeding already.
#81:
No, progressives are celebrating the death of a dictator, and dreading either another budget-busting invasion or just a diplomatic arrangement with the nascent leadership, to convert North Korea’s desperate population into another third world sweatshop.
Kim Jong-il dies and all Brendan Carr can do is use it as another excuse to expose yet again his almost pathological hatred of Barack Obama. Does he try to work in references to Obama’s Kenyan birth and socialist Muslim agenda into his legal briefs, as well?
I’m quite shocked he died so suddenly, but I’m even more interested in what happens next. Now we have a huge problem and problems in Korea are either solved with a fight or a really weird way.
I hope to teach English in what is now North Korea once the two nations are united. It’s an exciting, interesting time, folks.
#73
are you serious? Harper has completely sold Canada out to the US. Having a minority government was the only thing holding him back.
Now that he’s got a majority? Screw Canadians and the horse they road in on.
The new American style copyright bill died on the table several times over the last few years because he couldn’t jam it through. As soon as he’s got the majority? He’s riding it fast and hard.
Expect the RIAA/MPAA and their canadian counterparts to set up shop and start suing dead people and those without computers before too long.
I wonder whether the US now will go ahead with the 250 tons of food aid (vitamin-enriched biscuits) that was announced yesterday, indeed whether the deal was finalized w/ knowledge on the US side of KJI’s demise, and if so, whether the NORKS will follow through with the subsequent cessation of the uranium enrichment project that allegedly is the knock-on quid pro quo (a la US withdrawal of the Turkey-based missiles after Soviet withdrawal of the Cuba-based missiles)?
Mirae-rama — There are far fewer opportunities.
Brendon, you must be an abso-fuckin-lute gas at cocktail parties.
I’m just spitballin’ here, but things could really have just gotten better for us tax-wise. I mean, assuming critics of the current administration are right, and a Progressive candidate takes the next presidential election, the payoff for a presidential visit to North Korea has to have gotten cheaper. After all, even among those guys, who’d pay the same amount of money to meet Kim Jong-un as they would to meet his dad? So I think we’re going to catch a break there.
#73,
http://shitharperdid.ca/
Meanwhile, Rick Perry & Michele Bachmann SCRAMBLING to find out who Kim Jong Il was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=youtu.be
people grieving at the news of his death in north korea.
@95:
Huh? Sure US 250 miilion is lessthan half a billion per KDJ, but still a lot more than 0.
Concerning Brendon Carr’s comments above about Obama: For example, he wrote:
“How many boulevards and schools will be renamed for Kim Jong Un? There are already 11 American schools named for Barack Obama, plus two in his birth country of Kenya.”
I have to believe Brendon is being silly to claim that President Obama was not born in Hawaii. Because if he thinks so for real, he is a total (not just partial, as I have frequently intimated he is) idiot. And HE got all hot and bothered about a debate concerning the true ownership of Dokdo.
Now on the other hand, if he DOES really believe that Obama was born in Hawaii, and he is just trying to be silly, well…he’s just unfunny.
Quoting from an economist article a while back. The biggest preventive measure the Norks have against revolution is the utmost disconnection of the people.
Forget about Facebook or Twitter in the Arab worlds that helped revolution. Majority of Nork peasants simply live agrarian lives just like 200 years ago. They don’t even travel within their country. The broken down transport system especially the rail prevents the peasant population from travelling within.
So simply the majority of Norks don’t even know whats going on they just living on their farms trying to get by one by one. And mass starvation also prevents people from revolting. You need to have some food in your stomach for a revolution.
To aaronm @94 –
You wrote: Brendon, you must be an abso-fuckin-lute gas at cocktail parties.
If by that you mean the kind of gas that smells like crap and comes out of one’s ass…I couldn’t agree more.
Re: #82
Brendon wrote: “Y’all is free to skip whichever comments you want, if you doesn’t find ‘em worthwhile. I’ve been skipping wiessej‘s, for example.”
I am so glad…but how ironic he is unable to apply the same logic and skip his own comments as well.
I thought I was going to end the year with a big goose egg in my Dead Pool column. Thanks, Seal Team 6, you salvaged a 1 for me.
While I don’t expect mass uprisings, probably what WILL happen is the burgeoning black markets around the Chinese border will get bigger , become more emboldened, branch out around the country, corruption will increase, and the “official” state economy will have less and less to do with how most regular Koreans work and feed themselves. More and more cell phones, flashdrives, dvd’s, etc. will flood the market. Then various factions in Pyeongyang will squabble about what to do about their fading control, or about how to get the biggest cut themselves, and then shit will REALLY start to get interesting.
Great pictures from BBC news. What I want to know is how come even in North the division between the ajummas (permed hair) and agassi (non-permed hair) is so clear?
Apparently it was 2MB’s 71st birthday today (19th Dec when the news broke) *and* Wedding Anniversary
On the other hand, I remember Kim Ilsung’s death. I don’t remember feeling this mixture of uneasy/hopeful -ness then because KJI had established himself already as a clear successor, unlike this time.
Here’s how they’re going to come at him: Barzini will move against Kim Jeong Eun first. He’ll set up a meeting with someone that he absolutely trusts — guaranteeing his safety. And at that meeting, he’ll be assassinated. I suspect it’ll be Sal Tessio.
aaronm must be Chinese from Indonesia, don’t worry dude you’re not in Beijing when Beijing get nuked. Beijing Chinese are not your blood bros/sis. They’re mixed Mongolian/Qidanese, manchus and Xianbei stock, they have enslaved Chinese for too long. I just wanted to do favor to Han Chinese.
PeterDownUnder #101, a lot of folk have gotten quite far in the past on empty stomachs and without facebook, the Donghak guys comes immediately to mind. Remember the French had a cake-fueled revolution back in 1789.
Christopher Hill is hilarious he made me spit out my coffee..that joke was so much in the style of my father’s – unexpected yet so cute.
Bodoblock (#77):
That’s spot on. Yeah, αβγδε’s “analysis” leaves a lot to be desired. Just scroll down from here on out.
And I agree with what others have said here. Carr needs to just shut his fucking Tea Bagged trap about supposed parallels between President Barack Obama and Kim Jong Il.
Another parallel: No tolerance for those with bad things to say about the Leader.
Thanks for the shoutout Robert. Oh..and BTW…North Korea has fired short range missile off east coast this morning: 北, 오늘 오전 단거리 미사일 발사 (Yonhap News in Korean) bit.ly/tI2a0z
According to 시사저널, we should all probably keep our eyes on Kim Jung Eun and his 1·8그룹” (AKA 봉화조)
Sperwer,
The comment was a joke, about the knee-jerk actions of a possible future-elected Korean politician. Not sure what you mean in #99, but I also think any meeting between whoever that might be and Kim Jong-un isn’t worth paying for.
Couple links of interest:
A comic from 2008: http://ifyouseesomething.net/2008/08/25/is-north-koreas-kim-jong-il-dead/
Japanese professor says that KJI has been dead since 2003 http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor
Robert E. Kelly assesses the aftermath for Reuters and Haps: http://www.busanhaps.com/article/kim-dead-what-happens-next
Koreansentry, nope, 100 % crackerass Aussie-Brit here. Married to a 100% Pribumi, although I’ve got a few Chinese Indonesian friends. I’m just sick of you and your pencil-dicked netizen mates bringing your old-world pissing competitions to Australia. Seriously, get the fuck out of Australia you 50 kilo laptop fascist.
Wiessej, as much as I get jack of Brenda’s stream of Beck-esque lalalala, you don’t bring much to the table either.
to aaronm –
Once more, someone (you) who presumes to think I need their affirmation steps up on the holier than thou soapbox and vomits his disapproval. Ouch…mayb I should go home now….boohoo.
Bevers makes a lot of questionable statements, but the idea that North Korea can only gain freedom “over China’s dead body” is pretty solidly in the ballpark. China is “part of the problem” and (as currently configured) not “part of the solution” on North Korea and a good handful of other world problems.
My question is will Eric Clapton do a special remark of his sappy hit song for his fat-ass fanboy Jong Un? Something like “Tears in Hell”?
Many thanks to the people here posting links to websites with insights and information.
remake
China will fear a collapse of order in the North even more than the US will secretly be hoping for it. That’s an important pointer for anyone who’s thinking of making a bid for power up there. I’d be surprised though if the Chinese have the stomach for grand military adventures in the North, so things could still potentially spiral out of control.
Kim Jong-un poised to extend his family’s dynasty
China’s new puppet: “The Young General,” aka”The Great Successor”
“Another parallel: No tolerance for those with bad things to say about the Leader.”
No, Brendan Carr, it’s just that comparing Obama to an evil North Korean dictator is just so ridiculous, and you’re using it as an excuse to bring your partisan views of American politics into this discussion.
I thought George W. Bush was a terrible President, but I would not have been making parallels between Kim Jong-Il and Bush if Kim had died during Bush’s term in office. Yet you are tying Obama to Kim Jong-Il in a ridiculous way.
And btw, as you very well know, Obama was born in Hawaii and NOT Kenya.
JK wrote (#124):
But Hawaii is in Asia, according to Obama, which would mean Obama and Kim Jong-il had another thing in common.
beneath brendan? my good man, surely you jest.
Me? I’ll be playing Homefront… gonna kill me some Norks.
@ 125:
Yeah, Bevers, and George W. Bush was the son of a President…just like Kim Jong-Il! My goodness, what parallels!
I feel bad for the poor schmo who’s got to translate the Chosun Ilbo’s editorial tonight:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/19/2011121902100.html?gnb_opi_opi02
And gbevers, both George W. Bush and Kim Jong-Il bankrupted their respective countries, too!
Are they crying in the Hankyoreh editorial suite, too?
I was wondering when they’d start…
이희호 “DJ 서거때 조문단 파견…조문이 도리”
김대중 평화센터 통해 “깊은 애도”…노무현재단 “10·4 남북정상선언 실천 절감”
http://www.ohmynews.com/NWS_Web/View/at_pg.aspx?CNTN_CD=A0001672809&CMPT_CD=P0000
Well, slim, here you go:
http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/editorial/510894.html
Could have been worse.
I hope EVERYONE in south Korea is safe and the peace on the whole Korean peninsula. It’s not like the death of KIS when KJI established himself as a solid successor in the 1990s: this time many south Koreans, regardless of their political views, are worried over this uncertain and sudden situation.
* * *
The Chosun (조선일보) reports:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/19/2011121901995.html?news_Head1
quoted from the report:
“한편 홍콩의 RTHK(香港電台)방송은 홍콩 인권민주주의 정보센터를 인용해 북한에서 대량 탈북사태가 발생할 것에 대비해 중국 인민해방군 병력 2천여명이 훈춘(琿春)과 투먼(圖門) 등 중국과 북한 국경지대에 배치됐다고 전했다.”
So, RTHK of Hong Kong cited this piece of information using the source, “홍콩 인권민주주의 정보센터”. Does anyone know this Information Centre (홍콩 인권민주주의 정보센터) in Hong Kong?
Another report from the Chosun (조선일보):
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/19/2011121903030.html?news_Head1
“‘북한의 맹방(盟邦)’인 중국의 국영 TV가 김정일 사망 소식을 전하던 도중 김정일의 초상화가 불타는 시위 영상을 내보내는 방송사고를 냈다.
중국 국영 CCTV는 19일 김정일 사망 속보를 전하는 뉴스 프로그램 도중 북한의 국기(인공기)와 김정일의 초상화가 불태워지는 어느 시위 영상을 수 초간 내보냈다고 일본 요미우리신문이 이날 보도했다.”
So it looks like that China’s state-run broadcaster, CCTV, made a mistake (방송 사고) during a news program reporting on the death of KJI and Japan’s Yomiuri newspaper noticed that mistake and duly reported it. Hmm.
Of all the forces in the world that might use this occasion to grind an axe, I hope the sensible ones prevail and the better angels can somehow conjure up a peaceful and united Korean peninsula.
After all, it IS Christmas.
fuck that fucking cunt. The only sad part of this whole episode is that KJI didn’t get ripped apart by an angry mob. Anyone who sheds do much as a single genuine year over this deserves to die the most painful, horrible death. HITLER IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
*so much as
I hope tonight everyone is out celebrating the death of a vile, despicable human being. Humanity is better off. Any remorse at all, whatsoever, and you are less than scum.
Milton: I trust you are not leaking tears of joy. Or at least genuine ones. Anyway, at least when Hitler died it was an end of sorts. Here we are sitting around hoping for the same thing (you know, fed , educated and liberated north Koreans) but is that on the horizon?
Tha mi an dochas, co dhiubh.
DING DONG THE CUNT IS DEAD!! I hope some NK general has the cojones to assassinate mini me too
#122 “China” and “fear” cannot be used in the same sentence unless it has “would never” in the middle.
McGengis,
I don’t shed tears, but if I did, tonight would be the night. And no I dont believe tonight is the end of the end of the North Korean nightmare. But there’s nothing wrong with celebrating the destruction of disposable, vile, hideous, scum. That humanity has purged of such a blight is indeed a cause for celebration
The death of Kim Jong-Il, slave master of 20 million Koreans, is more significant and satisfying than the deaths of Gaddafi, Al-walaki, and Bin Laden combined. Words cannot express my shear happiness at this moment. The only “sad” part is that KJI did not face a tortuous death at the hands of his people.
If you are a Korean and you have so much as an inkling of sadness, remorse, or so much as a fond memory of KJI then you are a traitor to humanity, your people, and your country. Yesterday was a great day for humanity.
Woah! Soju breath, dude. Back up a bit.
Babotaengi,
You can smell it over the Internet? Dang. Time to quit drinking.
I don’t know why people feel like anything will drastically change with KJI’s death (like people trying to crash through the DMZ). The NK military will still carry on existing orders and shoot you if you try to defect. People still can’t talk smack about the Kim legacy. The Kim family drones are still in full force. The only real change will be if KJU really does take over and implement positive change. Stock markets crashing?! Why?? If you’re an investor and you’re pulling out just because KJI died, you have no backbone or sense. It’s just like when investors pulled out of South Korea in ’94 when Kim Il Sung died.
For the record, I really do hope something will change after KJI’s death…the sad part is though, I just don’t think anything positive will come from it.
Brendon,
be careful what you say. Our own Dear Leader Obama can kidnap you, detain you indefinitely or even assassinate you if he doesn’t like you, you know?
North Korea will… get [a lot] worse before it gets better.
KIM JONG IL IS DEAD! KIM JONG IL IS DEAD! KIM JONG IL IS DEAD! KIM JONG IL IS DEAD! KIM JONG IL IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I just can’t contain my happiness as this news sinks in. What an awesome day.
No funeral invitation for you, milton!
What Happens Next in North Korea? –
http://www.asiapundits.com/regions/korea/what-happens-next-in-north-korea/
JK (#130): “And gbevers, both George W. Bush and Kim Jong-Il bankrupted their respective countries, too!”
No, no, JK! You’ve got it all wrong! Bush = Hitler.
That means that Bush is a Nazi, exactly like Hitler, who was an extreme-nationalist, even racist, dictatorial leader of a totalitarian state that exterminated many of its own citizens in concentration camps.
Just like Bush, but unlike Kim Jong-il.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
From #135,
“I hope the sensible ones prevail and the better angels can somehow conjure up a peaceful and united Korean peninsula.”
This is a good one, I think.
Or “a peaceful and united Korean peninsula whose unification is led by south Korea (대한민국이 주도하는 통일)” is the best. I’m a moderate conservative, but a conservative is a conservative, after all.
Thus, as a south Korean citizen with a political stance of moderate conservative, I want a unified Korea in the future that is peacefully led and achieved by south Korea.
However, I couldn’t even say the word, “unification”, in my above comment #134, because I read many tweets by south Koreans (and I repeat *regardless of their political views*) that expressed their concerns and worries over this uncertain situation. Most of south Korean men have to follow the government’s call because it is their military duty. Some south Koreans tweeted, reading a text message on their phones, “I thought that was an official call to military duty… and it wasn’t.” They have been worried and so have I.
It is such an uncertain and complicated situation in so many respects. So for the moment, I hope EVERYONE in south Korea is safe and well. And peace on the whole Korean peninsula, meaning “No Chinese Army on the soil of north Korea”. I hope China will be neutral in this situation. I hope that the above CCTV’s mistake (#134) is a sign of their neutral or indifferent position on north Korea: in my view, if China is REALLY neutral, it will *in China’s own territory* just prevent possible north Korean defectors from entering China, not sending their troops to north Korea.
*** I’m not a native English speaker but I write comments in English at the Hole. Plus, some of the articles I link on this blog are in Korean, without English translation. (Thus, I feel I’m doubly disadvantaged). So, if there’s any person who wrongly guesses my political view or misunderstands some of my comments, I just feel there is nothing I can do about it.
Regardless, the following are my view on and hope for my country, south Korea.
(*** the term below, “we”, refers to south Koreans as native Korean speakers understand).
* If there’s any possibility for a unification on the Korean peninsula, that should be ABSOLUTELY a south Korea-led unification. But we can’t stake all the economic achievements in south Korea, especially considering the serious global economic recession. Thus, the unification process should be peaceful.
* Personally on the death of KJI? NO REMORSE. NOT AN INKLING OF SADNESS.
(I don’t understand WHY I even say this. Isn’t it obvious to anyone? I haven’t read ANY tweet that says ANYTHING remotely close. FYI, I don’t follow the extreme Right nor the extreme Left on Twitter. It seems to me that because I’m around 7 on a scale of 10 (1 being the extreme Left and 10 being the extreme Right), my followers are also moderates ranging from 3 to 7. I’m totally CLUELESS if there is anyone guessing from #134 that I might even feel “remotely” sad about KJI’s death. Well, my ID hasn’t been mentioned, for sure. The only reason I’m writing this is that a comment closely below my #134 seems to allude to this, though I’m not entirely sure. So PLEASE, anyone explain to me, if you can guess, what’s wrong with my comment #134 in this regard. I’m STILL clueless.).
* I’ve been supportive of American troops stationed in south Korea: 한미동맹 has been critical in keeping peace on the Korean peninsula.
* Believe it or not, I would also support American troops stationed in the *peacefully united* future Korea because of China and Russia. (Told you, I’m a conservative!). Well, the numbers of American troops would be smaller than now and they can be stationed in much more southern and warmer parts of Korea. And keep the current 한미동맹, for sure. Yup, it’s my wishful thinking – I know that Americans want to bring their troops home.
p.s. Search my past comments under the ID of “belair716″ if anyone wants to. I don’t use that handle any longer because I forgot the password. There are not many comments of mine even over a couple of years because I don’t comment much at the Hole. Yet, my comments have been consistent because I’ve been a moderate conservative for my entire life. Besides, I don’t use any other handles.
p.s. 2. I read south Korean newspapers but skip the comments in comments sections under them because some substantial amount of the comments are written by the people who are paid to do that. Twitter, on the other hand, is not severely regulated by the government and thus my fellow south Koreans talk freely. And I’m talking about my fellow south Korean tweeps (yes, those moderates from 3 to 7), then. Everyone has been worried about their own safety and national security. No one has ever said they’re sad because KJI died, NOT an inkling of sadness.
Never underestimate the American capacity for stupidity: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/people-that-thought-lil-kim-died
Slim: Little Elvis has been referred to as Lil Kim numerous times, so props for a sense of humor to these tweeters.
OK, maybe not.
Not, I’d say. Only sarcastic long-timers on NK stuff use Lil Kim. These look like typical idiots.
I like how Detroit’s former thug-in-chief, Kwane Kilpatrick, is among the clueless. I thought he was in jail…
Nice to see the Kyunghyang wants the government to offer condolences:
http://news.khan.co.kr/kh_news/khan_art_view.html?artid=201112192115345&code=990101
Will be interesting to compare their tone when Chun Doo-hwan kicks…
I think Brendon Carr is the only person here who has a real grasp of the situation. Yes, Kim Jong Il is dead, and I guess some people might consider that newsworthy. But we should not let it distract us from the real story: that Obama is a poopy-head. Kudos to the counselor for keeping focused on the important things.
Seriously counselor, you’ve now officially become more of a one-note flute than Bevers. I’m not saying this out of defense of Obama (fuck ‘im). I’m saying this because you’ve become That Guy. Go ahead, strengthen your resolve, double down, don’t be silenced by your critics. Someday, you’ll show us. You’ll show us all.
Oh, and just for a touch of relevance: I’m glad KJI is dead, and I’m sorry he never got what he deserved.
Oh God. Homefront. It’s happening, isn’t it?
Before you know it, South Korea will just “unite under North” within a year, and then Japan will just surrender because they’re too scared.
I better start studying up on mechanical engineering, in case I need to be useful to the anti-Korean resistance.
Michael Breen kicks Kim Jong-Il to the curb, partly reminds us of why the deceased Kim was such a terrible leader:
You know, I actually played through that again a couple of weeks ago. Sure, it’s not Battlefield 3, but it wasn’t so bad, either. Quite fun, actually. And the “Time Has Come Again” scene at the beginning of the last mission was kinda cool.
조작된 출생, 지도자 수업 – 1941년 소련서 태어났지만 우상화 위해 출생지·연도 바꿔…
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/20/2011122000131.html
See, even the Chosun is comparing KJI with Obama.
Sorry. I kid, I kid…
Speaking of Rush Limbaugh, he notes that the media went soft on Kim Jong-il (Kim Jong-dead, as Limbaugh now calls him).
1) Media members who praise Kim as cunning and smart will denounce Republicans as stupid.
2) “The people of North Korea are said to have gone on a hunger strike except nobody can tell the difference. They started their hunger strike several years ago, just to show their grief in advance.”
3) “The communist country’s Dear Leader, reputed to have had a taste for cigars, cognac, and gourmet cuisine was believed to have had diabetes and heart disease. There’s no mention of mass murder by a tyrant. Nothing about mass starving of his own people. Nothing about denying those under his thumb the most basic necessities of life in the twentieth century. Nothing about concentration camps. Nothing about forced abortions. Nothing about racism or that the madman who just assumed room temperature on his way to hell created nukes to sell to other men equally mad. None of this.”
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/12/19/media_praise_for_kim_jong_dead
(And the link to the Breen commentary from previous post: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/12/120_101148.html)
Dynastic power transfers were tough even during the era of absolute monarchy. It should be interesting to see if some enterprising senior figure – counselor or general – decides to rule from behind the throne with Kim Jr as a puppet. Or go into business for himself as a new Great Leader. This is probably also an opportune time for mid-or low-ranking officers to revolt. Does anyone in North Korea even know the meaning of carpe diem?
Well, no one explicitly offers me explanations (re #155). Maybe I’m mistaken in thinking someone referring to me indirectly. I just don’t know. But I’m sure about one thing: I can’t keep up with native ENGLISH speakers if I play an alluding game of words.
Though I’ve known the MH is not a language school where English teachers nicely explain the various meanings and connotations of words.
@ Robert
I guess I am a bit spoiled by Battlefield 3 (What do you MEAN I can’t shoot through that sheet metal?!). But I just couldn’t get over the setup…
But then again, the constant stream of “간나새끼!” and “죽여버리갔어!” was pretty enjoyable.
As I was saying at #51, it’s very unlikely that the local stock market will drop any further than it has already dropped.
“National Pension doesn’t see further steep declines in equities, Kim Hee Seok, head of the fund’s investment-strategy division, said by phone today. KB Asset Management Co., a unit of South Korea’s second-largest financial services group, is buying futures on the nation’s bonds, betting losses after Kim’s death won’t last.”
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-20/south-korea-s-biggest-investor-bought-stocks-after-kim-s-death.html
I’m not sure I would trust the National Pension Service. They threw good money after bad on Merrill Lynch, and have recently been talking about putting more into Bank of America.
To Granfallon @#161 –
HOORAY!!! I had been wondering if I was like that little kid who pointed at the Emperor (metaphorically, Brendon) and exclaimed to everyone (Marmot’s Hole people) that he was wearing no clothes (metaphorically, him unnecessarily and excessively being a dick a significant part of the time) – although I will admit something about him that he won’t admit about me (‘cuz he’s an arrogant “I know everything better than you do, regardless of your particular area of expertise” kind of guy) – specifically, that he does exhibit some intelligent perspectives quite frequently.
Oops, it was Korea Investment Corporation, not National Pension Service. Same principle applies — NPS has not been earning great returns.
wiessej (#172),
That was so funny, lol
However, I think Mr. Carr is a nice and smart person. Well, I don’t know him. I’ve never met him, so I can’t say for sure (and for that matter, I don’t know anyone at the MH). Still, it seems to me Mr. Carr presents reasonable arguments at the Hole.
Just thinking that it would/will be nice if wiessej and Mr. Carr have a beer summit in Seoul.
*** And this is my cultural perspective on Mr. Carr’s working environment:
To tell from Mr. Carr’s comments at the Hole, the work place where Mr. Carr has been working is full of very smart lawyers, representing one of the elite groups of south Korea. Generally speaking, this elite group of people is viewed among south Koreans to be smart and powerful – so some south Koreans might be under the impression that they have a condescending attitude as often depicted, say, in TV dramas. This is the only guess I can have when a couple of the MHers say that Mr. Carr is arrogant. I’ve read his comments and counter-comments by others at the Hole, but I don’t think he’s arrogant.
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