And in the latest USFK caper, police in Yongsan are investigating four US soldiers, including a 21-year-old female soldier identified as F, for allegedly assaulting a taxi driver and one of the police officers who were dispatched to the scene.
According to NoCut News, after a night of drinking, F and her posse tried to take a cab near Itaewon Station (gee, go figure?) to return to their base in Uijeongbu at 1 am Sunday. They haggled with the driver, a 40-year-old Mr. An, about the price, but when negotiations collapsed, F started cursing at An and pushed him. When a 45-year-old Mr. Kim, a fellow taxi driver, tried to break up the fight, F’s three battle buddies beat him.
Not content to stop there, the GIs capped off the evening by jostling with one of the cops dispatched to the scene.
Or so NoCut News reports.
Judging the assault to be minor, the police turned the soldiers over to USFK, and plan to handle the matter in accordance with the SOFA.
{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }
if they attack police, they get shot. korea needs to have a similar policy against woe-a-in.
that should read: in america,
This just in from Yonhap, 10 years for the Dongducheon case.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2011/11/01/77/0301000000AEN20111101002900315F.HTML
Funny thing… I never saw GIs being aggressive towards anyone (in Itaewon) before 2002…
While it definitely seems like small incidents are being overblown as news in the current environment, I also wonder if all the reports have made a sort of “us vs. them” atmosphere among the soldiers and locals and makes things worse. For example, in this case, did the recent news make the cabbie more demanding and aggressive? Has all the attention given some soldiers a chip on their shoulder and (after a few drinks) more likely to take personal offense and respond physically to perceived slights? And lastly, were the police more keen to respond and intervene given public attention? I don’t think more restrictions is the answer to reverse the trend, so what will it take? Just time?
Re: #3, that’s good to hear. I sure hope he has to serve all of it in Korea.
As for this case, night-time taxi drivers, especially in Itaewon, are more notorious than the drunken GIs there. At least they’re two groups of people who really deserve each other.
i dont know the details but i hear that it was the taxi driver who started the fight first. he punched F in the face during the argument and that is when her boyfriend started to beat the driver.
het biyfriend was suppose to leave korea yesterday
@코리아
If that is indeed the case, then perhaps USFK should consider a sort of a massive PR campaign/activity (assuming that they aren’t already doing that).
For example, the Luke AFB near where I live really involve itself with the community (that’s getting pissed off because of all the noisy jets flying around), even participating in the local interests/activist causes like water conservation. Given how permeating/significant mass media is in South Korea, I think a stream of pictures of a (very photogenic) GI helping out 할아버지s at a local 양로원 or playing with orphans at a local orphanage would go a long way to counter the whole “fucking GIs are beating up our taxi drivers and raping our teenagers” mindset.
It would mostly be superficial gestures (they have other shit to do, after all), but it might help out with the ‘us vs. them’ being established.
Setnaffa: then you weren’t looking. My friend fled from a group of stir-crazy guys on a weekend’s leave from up near the DMZ in Itaewon’s King Club in the 1980s because they were about to set upon him. His crime? Having long hair.
Another shit-simple idea that could save the US forces a lot of trouble would be to keep lists of reliable taxi drivers, as well as black lists of ones who try to rip them off (on base they should be safe from mediaevil libel laws). Indeed every woman in Korea should have some numbers of reputable ones.
@bumfromkorea
I like that idea and think it should happen. It’s not going to placate the extremes (but really nothing short of the US military out of Korea would do that) but would likely help prevent anything massive from materializing. The question is if the media would cover it, might be more eyes and interest in hatchet jobs.
@YuBumSuk
I also wonder if USKF could provide a bus or something that goes from Itaewon directly back to base at curfew (if something of the sort isn’t provided already), it helps show they are serious about the curfew and may prevent a couple confrontations (no matter who is at fault)
I’m not sure there’s much you can do, really — you can cut the number of incidents somewhat through measures like the curfew, but you’re still dealing with a lot of potentially rowdy young (emphasis on the YOUNG) men far from home. Frankly, it’s a miracle incidents don’t happen more often. And I really don’t think the media has much to do with this—boorish behavior on the part of certain segments of the US military community long predates the latest round of negative press, and assaulting cab drivers is a time-honored USFK tradition.
Were any male soldiers implicated in this (i.e. the battle buddies) or were the Korean men beaten up by female soldiers? If so, is that a first?
male soldiers were involved. one of whom was the boyfriend of soldier F and was suppose to leave korea yesterday if this incident hadnt happened.
What’s interesting is that this latest round of negative press regarding US soldiers is happening just as the number of negative articles about foreign English teachers decreases (over 350 negative articles in 2009 and 2010, compared to just over 200 so far this year (and 80 of those articles were from the bus guy). Of course, English teachers, when depicted negatively, are perceived to be white males – the same as US soldiers. Perhaps, with the space given to soldiers these days, there’s not enough room to talk about drunk driving or trophy stealing foreign teachers…
14, it wouldn’t be a first. Remember Lindsey England?
Taxi drivers in the Itaewon area are notorious for cheating GIs with illegally inflated fares. I once witnessed a taxi driver attempting to charge 5,000 won for a ride from Yongsan to the center of Itaewon – at the time the standard rate on the meter would have been 1900 won. There was a knowledgeable man taking down license plate numbers for every taxi driver quoting him an illegal price – he was recording them with his cell phone as well.
Another time, I was with my fiancee once getting a ride from the Yongsan area to Yaksu, I think. When we arrived, the taxi driver pulled over and turned off his meter display and tried to charge us a rate that was about 50% of what had been on his meter right before he pulled over. What he didn’t realize was that despite the fact that she and I were heavily engaged in conversation, she was paying attention to the meter, so she could have the money ready when he stopped. He thought we weren’t paying attention, and he thought he could pull a fast one on us – she chewed his ass and got his ID (name and number) from the dashboard display – he agreed to just give us the free ride if we didn’t report him. Lesson – Pay attention to the fares…and if you are drunk, don’t try to take a cap to Uijongbu – just get a damn room.
This incident is probably blown all out of proportion, and we are likely to hear absolutely nothing further of it – so insignificant, the police didn’t bother to investigate, but some media outlet felt it was still worthy of prominence.
Oh, and the photo used int he story – the US Army hasn’t worn the camouflage battle dress uniform (BDU) for more than 4 years now…
‘Of course, English teachers, when depicted negatively, are perceived to be white males…’
cuz they mostly are though some of them are half koori. hows the beetle larva?
What was the taxi driver even doing ‘negotiating’ a price, that’s what they have meters for isn’t it? Whilst most taxi drivers are fine, there is a hardcore of really bad ones.
Interesting how these things go in quite a regular cycle, lots of reporting of incidents involving GIs and then loads of articles slagging of native English teachers, then back to GIs.
@11 Most taxi drivers are fine during the day, but a lot of the guys who work at night are scumbags. Not all of them of course, but a disturbingly large percentage. The list whilst a very good idea would probably be rather short! I wonder what the taxi driver did to provoke the army folks, I’ve had a few words with taxi drivers being shits in the past.
A friend of mine even got into a fight which the taxi driver started, the taxi driver slapped my pal because he told him to slow down! The driver was driving like an absolute mad man and my pal was travelling with his pregnant wife.
My dad came close to punching a taxi driver when the idiot driver pulled away quickly whilst my mother (who is getting on a bit these days) was only halfway in the car. My mother got pretty scraped up legs because of that arsehole. The driver was lucky I wasn’t with them at the time. I’d have been very tempted to punch someone who did that too my old mum.
The taxi driver could have well started it, but there is no excuse for shoving the police around who are only trying to do their job. They could be booked for assaulting a police officer in most countries for that kind of behaviour.
@15 Thanks. If F was hit by the taxi driver and the boyfriend interceded the reporting reminds me of the 1995 subway incident.
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2007/12/1995-subway-incident.html
@17 Lynndie England? You mean to say she beat up Korean men before transferring to abu ghraib?
@16 Bulgasari: This is a serious question, where did you get those figures from regarding the number of negative articles about teachers, or were you being flippant? Sorry if that sounds naive!
@22 PekingMan: I’ve kept track over the last two years, doing searches regularly for ‘foreign instructor/teacher’ or ‘native speaker’ to see what articles have come out. It’s been a slow year for negative stories, and (assuming nothing big happens in the next two months), without the bus incident pushing it up, it would have been the lowest in years. Maybe it’s been a slow year for crime? And for the past few years this time of year (with its parliamentary audits) would usually see the release of statistics of some sort to be ‘misinterpreted’ by various representatives looking to get their names in the news. Perhaps there are other reasons for the quiet, but it’s certainly interesting that it’s occurring as GIs are increasingly focused on. I’d love to find someone doing similar monitoring of media in regard to USFK and migrant workers, just to see if there are any patterns.
@19 pawikirogii: I was thinking more about the gender balance, really (though I imagine men commit most of the crimes (though not in this case)). As of September, there were 33,644 US soldiers in Korea – 27,025 males and 6,619 females. There were 22,859 people in all E-2 categories (there are now three: E-2-1 for hagwon teachers, E-2-2 for school teachers, and E-2-91 for ‘FTA English’) – 12,646 males and 10,213 females.
Those stats can be downloaded here (get the zip file with excel files inside).
According to Korean source cab charge was around $45 and it takes that much to drive to Yongsan from Itaewon. So this group of drunken U.S soldiers didn’t wanted to pay up the cab charge which I believed how the fight started. Soldiers are not supposed to hit civilian, they’re there to protect people and kill invading enemies. Anyway, Itaewon should have U.S military bus service and curfew for soldiers.
@bulgasari: Thanks for the answer, is this part of a study you’re conducting?
^Koreansentry, do you even live in Korea? Considering you can walk to Yongsan base from Itaewon station in about 15 minutes or so (even if very drunk), I think $45 for taking a cab is a little excessive! I think they were trying to get to Uijeongbu, which is quite a bit further.
@26 I suppose… it’s been an ongoing thing. It’s far easier to tally the articles as they appear, and it’s a good way to find out what’s going on and find articles to translate… though if you really want to know what’s going on, it’s usually helpful to pay attention to anti-English spectrum.
To KoreanSentry – Using YOUR logic, all Koreans visiting America should have tracking devices attached to their feet. After all, wasn’t there a Korean-American student who shot the hell out of a bunch of people at Virginia Tech University a few years ago.
US service members are indeed in Korea to help preserve peace on the peninsula. But that doesn’t mean all they can do other than stand their post is eat drink and sleep. They are human beings, and they are NOT the problem in Korea that xenophobic dweebs like you want to paint them to be. They are not dogs to be kept on leashes. How many times do you think altercations occur between Koreans and cab drivers?? I have seen plenty. Should those Koreans be kept at home unless they are at their jobs? Make some sense one of these days, ok?
From Itaewon to the front gate of the Yongsan Garrison shouldn’t even exceed the flagfall fare of W2400. If a cab driver demanded $45 for that and got grabby with me about it, I might punch him in the face myself.
@29 wiessej… point of order here. Several years ago there was a “조승희 rule” introduced here. I forget the details (Sonagi was the main author, I believe), but it goes something like this:
if you bring up the 조승희 and the Virginia Tech shootings, you probably just forfeited the argument.
Check the archives for more on this if you feel this unfairly cramps your style.
To cmm –
If you cannot understand that I was merely mentioning the VA Tech incident to shoot holes in Koreansentry’s logic, please re-read my post. I was not seriously suggesting that Koreans visiting the US should wear tracking devices. Honestly, if you thought that, well, I don’t know what to say.
I was showing how KS’s own view on how the US military in Korea should be treated is as equally idiotic as requiring Koreans in America to be afforded special surveillance.
Koreanstormfront wrote: “According to Korean source cab charge was around $45 and it takes that much to drive to Yongsan from Itaewon.”
In what, a stretch limosine? A horse-drawn carriage? If that Korean source is right then I think we know how the fight started. If $45 = ~50,000 won he was trying to rip them off for around 47,000 won. Or are you thinking of a different Yongsan?
To wiessej -
Seriously? My post has nothing to do with whether one can understand your greatly insightful argument. Nor could it be misinterpreted that way. The “point of order” made that obvious.
And congrats on “shooting holes in Koreansentry’s logic.” Hell knows what we’d do without someone around to do that for the rest of us. Up until now, I think it was pretty much the consensus that he was the Aristotle reincarnated, and not the stupidest, most hateful xenophobic Korean idiot on this site (who runs his own xenophobic and racist hate website).
Like I said, check the archives. PLEASE.
“Koreanstormfront,” that’s funny.
$45 was from Itaewon to Uijongbu, which is probably about right. And the reason GI’s always try to “negotiate” a price before getting into a cab is because they’re scared of getting ripped off (heard too many war stories)…better to negotiate up front rather than get a surprise at the end of the ride. Of course Korean taxi drivers take advantage of this negotiation, usually, and try to bump up the charge a little. It may be malice in some cases, but in a lot of them it’s simple misunderstanding.
cmm—spewed coffee on the monitor reading #34.
#33 I find it hard to believe that any of you think Koreansentry is actually from that site, especially since he publicized David Willis’s book on another thread. I’m more inclined to think that he is not Korean at all and is the sock of a better-known blogger or commenter. Can we find out where he is posting from?
Robert, I’m just glad I didn’t cause you to do anything to your iPad.
38, if he’s not the real one he does a damn fine immitation.
Korean cabbies are absolute pricks. I hope they beat the shit out of him.
I find Korean cabbies to be mostly (like 99% mostly) delightful. And I’m in a cab several times a day, every day. But I generally have a good experience with cab drivers everywhere in the world.
Likewise, 99% of my experience with cabbies has been good. I’ve only had problems around airports, stations, and terminals.
Brendon, good for you. I had problems at night when they demanded high fares, and when they drove by with empty cab after empty cab, with the window rolled down an inch, and you’re freezing your sac, and they don’t deign to over charge you for the fare unless your destination is far , far away.
Oh , and their refusal to take my wife up the alleys to our ‘villa’ when we lived in one. About half wouldn’t deign to do that.
In short, they have this nasty habit of not picking you up; if they do, they have a nasty habit of not taking you where you want to GO..
Otherwise, they’re a swell bunch of fellas.
Oh, and spare me the thinly veiled character criticism. In the 3 years since I’ve left Korea I can’t believe they’ve suddenly become nice. I mean, sure, I had a ton of nice cabbies. But I have also had a ton of true pricks. I have a hard time believing that you haven’t, unless you never go out at night.
PineForest: one of your deigns above (#44) is wrong.
Oh, and Pineforest, are you the one who suggested last month that it isn’t surprising when kids of USFK personnel mug and rob and beat a Korean, because their parents are treated badly by Koreans?
You wouldn’t be into tarring all people with the same brush, would you?
Pineforest, I live in a small town where the cabbies are known to everyone, so that probably makes a difference. I frequently take taxis to and from KNU in Daegu, and apart from them sometimes thinking I mean KNU Hospital it’s never been a problem. The only consistent hassle is at Incheon and Gimhae Airports where I get hassled by guys hoping I’m a clueless tourist when I don’t even want a taxi.
To cmm –
If I write something that is painfully obvious to you, please follow these few easy steps:
1: Move mouse cursor to “up-down” slide bar on the right side of the browser window.
2: Left click mouse while cursor is hovering over said “up-down” slide bar.
3: Without letting up on the left click button, pull mouse gently away from monitor so as to create a perpendicular route of travel until any and all tedious, offensive, silly, irritating, redundant, repetitive, etc. comments are no longer visible on your monitor screen.
4: Feel free to repeat the above steps at times you deem appropriate.
There, now…isn’t that easier than typing a comment in response to comments you don’t like? Have a great day.
I have to agree with pretty much all of the comments above about cabbies. But all it takes are an unscrupulous few to tarnish the image of the many.
I have personally witnessed the following – and have been victim (or intended victim) to more than one from Seoul cab drivers:
1. Cabbies illegally soliciting potential riders inside of Incheon airport to provide rides back to Yongsan garrison.
2. Cabbie turning off meter upon pulling over to deliver rider(s) to destination, then telling the rider(s) the fare was higher than the meter said it was before he turned it off. hoping to bilk them out of extra money.
3. On-duty cabbie waving off a westerner who was hailing him, only to pull over to pick up a young Korean couple approximately 30 meters farther down the road.
4. Cabbie attempting to take a very circuitous rout between point A and point B to extend the time and distance – thus increasing the charge – assuming the rider had no clue how to get there.
5. Cabbies attempting to charge newly arrived US military 5,000 won for a 2,400 won ride from Yongsan’s main gate to Itaewon – another illegal practice.
Some of these are FAR more common than people realize. Yes, the vast majority of Seoul cabbies are very good people, but some are small-time crooks.
^ You forgot the one where they pick up another passenger when you’re on your way, go out of your way (adding extra to the ‘take’) to drop the other passenger off and they pay what’s on the meter. They then proceed to demand you pay the ‘full’ fare, even though they’ve already been paid some of it and they’ve gone way out of your route adding to the cost of the journey. Fortunately this scam doesn’t seem to occur much these days.
Since my Korean is better this hasn’t happened again, but that was something that happened to me twice when I first got here. The second time I was like ‘not again!’ and it almost developed into a fight. I paid the fair price (actually in his favour, as he gave me quite the detour to drop off the other fare), he got very rude and aggressive and threatened to call the police. He actually tried to stop me leaving the car until I put him in a wrist lock to release his grip on my shoulder. That’s right, the dishonest bastard actually laid his hands on me. I felt like punching the twat, but know it’s not a good idea. A very painful wrist lock causes no bruising and in this instance did the job of giving him some pain and most importantly letting me leave the vehicle.
The vast majority of taxi drivers are fine, but it’s the exceptionally bad, weird or good ones that tend to stick in one’s mind.
Hamel,
Normally I wouldn’t deign to answer comments such as yours, but I must take issue with your statement that one of my deigns was incorrect. Which one, pray tell? And keep in mind that your little tootsies will be held to the fire if you’re wrong.. don’t make me get linguistically medieval on your ass, to quote vingh rhames. Hehee…
….and for the record, I only came close to bitch-slapping a cabbie once, although my (Korean) wife came close on several occasions. Violence is not the answer. Well, violence that leaves physical marks that can be used as evidence is not the answer.
Hamel,
You’re right, I did comment earlier that American youth, exposed constantly to the vagaries of Korean xenophobia and racism toward anyone who is not Korean, might get resentful and act out. I do not condone violence. But I can see how this resentment might result in violence.
I also see how the mistreatment of passengers might result in some people beating up on Korean cabbies. If there were an international poll of busines s people conducted, I imagine that rickshaw wallas in India would come in first, and Korean cabbies second, for general cheatery and badness. Of course my experience is limited. I’ve never been to Africa or South America.
How is this painting all with the same brush? The point is that people who are exposed to constant, racially motivated mistreatment, may lash out. If you doubt this , just visit L.A. It is an equal opportunity city. Every race is at every other race’s throat. Violence is rife. What else do I need to say?
PineForest, how can you possibly suggest that Korean cabbies would be ahead of SE Asian ones when it comes to cheating? In how many countries have you taken taxis, three?
Yu BS,
To the contrary, I’ve traveled to pretty much every country in SE Asia multiple times my friend. And you’re right, it’s definitely buyer beware down there. But I have never had a cabbie drive by in the rain or any other condition and simply refuse to pick me up. But yeah, you’re right, once they DO pick you up you better know what you’re supposed to pay and which route is correct.
Still, we are talking simple greed there. But the habit of Korean cabbies that I experienced so many times , where they cruise by 15 or 20 people on a VERY cold winter’s night, around 1 a.m., with that window cracked an inch, and refuse to stop to pick up any of them, because their destinations aren’t far enough away, still takes the cake for outright meanness. It’s just cruel. These poor people are freezing and it seemed to me that the cabbies took perverse pleasure in displaying their power. Power that comes once a day, just after midnight.
Now, in Vietnam for example, I would have guys quote absurd prices when I would seek a cab. But I would simply state my price in Vietnamese ONCE, and they would smile sheepishly and agree. Once they knew that I knew what I should pay, the jig was up.
In Thailand, they were a little crankier around the islands, but there again, if you knew your price , I never had trouble getting the runaround. In Bangkok, it was always the meter. I never had any trouble in Bangkok with circuitous routes.
I haven’t taken many cabs in the Philippines, admittedly, though I have been there many times. But when I did, I never had a bad experience. I tended to jump jeepneys in Manila, and hire minivans around the islands.
I should mention that minivan drivers in Thailand were shady characters indeed and I had to fight from getting cheated multiple times.
Oh, and finally, when I lived in China in the early 90s, (!) some cabbies had a bad habit of agreeing to a fare and then carrying on loudly and publicly upon arrival, accusing me of agreeing to a much LARGER fare, and trying to cheat them. This was tough, as there would always be a large crowd that seemingly wound up believing the cabbie when I walked away without buckling!
Dunno what cabbies are like in Beijing or Shanghai nowadays, I live in the pine forests of the rockies very happily.
PineForest: here is your deign in vain:
Also,
I sperwered that html tag thing totally. Let me try again.
PineForest: here is your deign in vain:
Also,
(Emphasis mine.) I will not try to disprove your treatment or your perceptions, or say you are a liar or a story-teller. However, perceptions of things like “pain” and “mistreatment” vary from person to person. We all have different threshholds and ways of perceiving stimuli.
Having lived in Korea for 11 or the last 15 years, and having occasionally come across behavior to me that I would consider “mistreatment” or “xenophobia” (including from my own dear mother-in-law) , my response to anybody who senses “constant, racially motivated mistreatment” is to do as you have done – pack up and leave. Seriously. Korea is not for everyone. If for some reason a person attracts THAT MUCH negative sentiment then they had best find a new place to live. (And please don’t think I am some Pollyanna who thinks all in Korea is perfect and nobody is ever racist here.)
It reminds me of the American guy 7 years ago who reported that he got death threats under the windshield of his car and burnt US flags stuffed in his mailbox. That story might even be in the archives of this blog somewhere (Robert?). I have no doubt that man suffered terrible treatment and possibly even fear. Something cosmic/karmic/call-it-what-you-will was attracting more than the average white foreigner’s level of sh*t to this man. Other than that I have no rational, forensic explanation for it. The best thing for him at that moment was to leave Korea and say “it’s not for me.” And he did leave Korea.
Unfortunately, the tendency is for most people to say “what was bad for me is bad for everybody” and then they tell everyone “Korea is a sh*thole. Boycott Korean-made products. Don’t ever go there.” etc. It’s understandable.
As was mentioned earlier in this thread the vast majority of taxi cab drivers in Korea I have had no issues with either. The only places I have had problems with cab drivers are Inchon Airport, the Uijongbu train station, and GI villes. Some of these taxi drivers that work there are sharks looking to screw over GI’s. You throw in drunk GI’s and differences in languages and that is why many of these altercations happen. With that said some of these incidents are inexcusable and the GI’s deserved to be punished. There is not enough information on this case to really make a determination yet.
I have always thought a USFK sponsored late night bus from Itaewon, Stanleyville, and TDC on the weekends to take soldiers back to their respective camps would be a way to get drunk GI’s from dealing with cab drivers or using public transportation. There was plenty of times I have had to correct the behavior of drunk GI’s on the subway for being loud and cursing.
I think people may say chartering a bus is too expensive but isn’t paying legal fees for all these altercations expensive too, not to mention all the bad publicity USFK receives from them?
That late-night bus sounds like a good idea.
I have also found the my worst experiences with taxi drivers were at the airport. I was hoping that the KTO would have pressured the government to forcefully move on the taxis who either don’t use the meter or who charge with a black cab meter without you knowing it. I once refused all the crooked taxis who were charging 70 dollars to take me back home from the airport, and waited until a call taxi came. It took 20 or so minutes, but I got home and saved money.
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