The Kukmin Ilbo reports that with the recent police arrest of an English teacher in Gangnam who was wanted in the States for attempted murder, voices are growing louder for better government control of English teachers.
Some 11 parents groups released a statement Thursday calling for strict control at the state level of foreign teachers.
In their statement, the groups said that the arrest of a wanted attempted murder who taught openly in Gangnam for a decade shows just how poor the government’s management of foreign English teachers are.
They called on the government to take direct responsibility for training foreign teachers, as well as to take other measures to make sure illegal and unqualified teachers can’t come to Korea.
So far, the government has educated and managed foreign teachers working at schools—according to data received by one GNP lawmaker, new foreign teachers at schools must undergo more than 60 hours of training—but they have taken no such measures with teachers at private hagwon. Accordingly, according to the paper, there have been many instances of foreign teachers getting involved with drugs, sex crimes and violence. According to recent tax office statistics, foreign teachers accounted for 29.4% of foreign drug smuggling crimes last year.
Aware of these issues, the government recently crafted a plan to strengthen controls over foreign teachers. In the Hagwon Law passed in June, the Ministry of Education made it so that hagwon must receive the diplomas, health checks and criminal records from foreign teachers they hire, while local offices of education make foreign teachers undergo training once a year.
And seemingly to reinforce their parents’ point, Ye Olde Chosun reports that yet ANOTHER gyopo gangbanger was caught teaching English with a fake degree.
This guy, identified as Mr. Kim (38), was adopted at 18 months old by an American couple. He left home as a teen, however, and ended up running with a Mexican gang in Arizona. In 2000, he earned himself a 10-year sentence for 2nd degree attempted murder; he was released after seven and deported in Korea in 2007.
Prosecutors believe after Kim arrived in Korea, he got a fake degree and taught English at four famous English academies in Gangnam, Goyang and Anyang. He is also suspected of helping another Korean-American he met here get a fake degree and a job. Oh, he’s suspected of having 9g of pot in his officetel, too.
Reportedly, Kim is admitting to the degree forgery and illegal employment, but is denying anything to do with the pot.
Prosecutors say he’s Korean without US citizenship, but he can’t speak Korean, and it seems he forged the degree to work as an English teacher when he found it difficult to make a living here.
UPDATE: Be sure to check out Matt’s post on the gyopo gangster-turned-English teacher plague sweeping the land.
{ 76 comments… read them below or add one }
Really there’s nothing more to be said about this issue that hasn’t already been said. The people pushing this agenda are interested in determining where the problems are and what solutions might be had. Just have to sit back and do your best not to do anything stupid that could add even more fuel to the fire and add converts to their distorted cause.
I’m SURE that the government will tighten laws for F series visas to address these recent issues rather than just making it harder to obtain E series visas. Just as I’m SURE that these gents didn’t take advantage of being ethnic Koreans to obtain F series visas, thereby skirting the checks already in place for others seeking employment here.
…really?
As far as the F-series goes, the case of the guy who shot at someone, he’d stolen another person’s identity. Very little most of the checks would have done in that case.
As for other cases, these ones that often come up seem to be about Gyopos, and not even other F-series. Perhaps the government has to stop handing out open visas to anyone who can prove they’ve got a drop of Korean blood in them.
as much as the Republic of Korea is a haven for US college graduates with a liberal arts degree and a degree in law,
it has been a haven for gyopos who formerly dissed the native tongue and rocked out to Japanese cars with fidelity exceeding the 95% barrier.
it has also been a haven for gyopos who never knew the native tongue who CANNOT get a career in music or acting in North America. ie) Lena Park, and in a twisted way, someone like the Daniel SW Lee family whose ‘immigration’ pattern is that of exploitation and cherry picking of benefits and dodging of responsibilities and inconveniences. I wonder if they even pay what is due to the Canadian government in the form of taxes.
[김씨는 ‘애리조나주립대 운동기능학 학사’ 학위를 위조해 최근까지 서울 강남, 경기 고양·안양 등 유명 어학원 4곳에서 원어민 영어 강사로 일했다. 또 한국에서 알게 된 한국계 미국인 A씨에게 ‘애리조나주립대 회계학 학사’ 학위를 위조하게 해 취업을 도운 혐의와, 자신의 오피스텔에 대마초 9g을 소지한 혐의도 받고 있다. 그러나 김씨는 검찰에서 “학위를 위조해 취업한 부분은 인정하지만, 대마초 소지 등 나머지 혐의는 무관하다”고 주장한 것으로 전해졌다. ]
Arizona State University, baby !
It’s interesting that the KI article doesn’t mention the word 교포 at all, nor the fact that by far the most serious English-teaching offenders (i.e. bonafide criminals) have pretty much all been Gyopo. It seems like there’s some there’s some handwaving going on here: a string of unsavory Gyopo get caught teaching kids and the response is to completely sweep that problem under the rug by putting even greater restrictions on the part of the teacher population that isn’t really causing trouble.
The only way to seriously curtail the number of unqualified and illegal teachers here is not to put even more restrictions on white, middle-class, culturally-insensitive and obnoxious—but otherwise harmless—ex-Greek liquor louts and skirt-chasers, but to shut down the F-visa loophole. If the loophole remains open, the Korean government can put all the restrictions and regulations on E2 visa holders it wants, but the problem of murderers, sex offenders, and gangbangers working with kindergarten kids won’t go away.
I think there’s already a tried and true strategy in place for dealing with problematic English-teaching F-4s: crackdown on E-2s.
Wait. Why did Mr. Kim get deported back to Korea? Isn’t he American?
Korea.
The destination for loser Kyopos who can’t make something out of themselves in the US of A.
Speaking of English teachers, I read somewhere that Korea brings 20,000 new teachers each year. They should stop. Korea should keep all the English teachers they already have – those that want to stay – and stop bringing new ones. They should assimilate the ones that are already here and offer them a resident status after 3-5 years. Whaddaya think?
How about those parents groups start calling upon the fucking Hakwons to take direct responsibility for who they hire.
Parents are stupid.. . . . all over the world
That would be nice and would go a long way to improving both the stock of teachers and English proficiency of Korean students.
Sadly, the Korean government, the hagwons, and the universities do pretty much everything possible to discourage experienced and well-meaning teachers. If you’re over 30, non-white, or have boatloads of experience: good luck getting hired. And don’t even think about—heaven forbid—making a career out of teaching EFL here. Extraordinarily-low salary caps and lack of opportunity for advancement mean good teachers come here to cut their teeth and then fly off to more lucrative destinations, leaving Korea’s English education in the hand of criminal Gyopos, the chronically unemployable, and fresh-out-third-tier-state-school frat boys/sorostitutes looking to keep their Van Wilder dreams alive for another year.
The most desirable EFL teacher here is are blond-haired, blue-eyed, white, slim females from the Midwestern United States in their early 20s with mediocre teaching ability. The schools want mediocre teaching ability because parents complain when their kids switch classes from a really good teacher to an average teacher (and given the high turnover, this is inevitable). Also, good teachers tend to be more likely to complain about the rampant un-educational curricula and gimmicky teaching methods employed at many of these schools.
@10
I’m still for the English teaching robot plan. Getting closer every day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Qc_nmSUGQ
http://chronicle.com/blogs/college20/another-benefit-of-robot-teachers-no-moral-problems/26941
If the gyopo was adopted by an American couple at the age of 18months and grew up in the USA and ran with a Mexican gang in Arizona after his teens and even spent 7 years in prison, then why did he get deported (after prison) and why didn’t he have American citizenship?
and yet, I wish the Gyopos would stop messing things up and making things harder for the foreign teachers working here.
But F-4 visa holders have had it too easy – fake degrees, no criminal background checks, etc – what did Korea expect?
“and yet, I wish the Gyopos would stop messing things up and making things harder for the foreign teachers working here.”
I thought it was the E-2 visa holders that ruined things for F visa holders, or at least that’s what I remember reading. The F visa holders being a bunch of whiners when E-2 visa holders complain about fairness or discrimination. Maybe we should all shut up in the name of F visa holders.
the answer here is to get rid of the craze for english and then you get rid of you-know-who.
btw, 45 thousand at the tokyo dome for k-pop. hard to imagine seeing japanese young people carrying signs in hangul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CoEU5QOcjc
[milton August 12, 2011 at 4:57 pm
The most desirable EFL teacher here is are blond-haired, blue-eyed, white, slim females from the Midwestern United States in their early 20s with mediocre teaching ability. The schools want mediocre teaching ability because parents complain when their kids switch classes from a really good teacher to an average teacher (and given the high turnover, this is inevitable). Also, good teachers tend to be more likely to complain about the rampant un-educational curricula and gimmicky teaching methods employed at many of these schools.]
what a bigot.
so, you are saying your mentioned population group is dumb.
what a bigot on two fronts.
considering that most of them turn out to be overweight males overly generous on the rating of Korean women and exceptionally critical, resentful, and probably jealous of Korean men, I would LOL at you.
#13
Pissssss…. your not suppose to leak that out
I work in that field too, though we’re not using foreign teachers, in reality there are plenty of decent local teachers who while may not be as great lingustic wise as a native speaker certainly at least known their field and aren’t as likely to pull off crazy shite like the onces meantioned in the article.
And with the aid of modern technology (we speicalize in using computer programs and voice pens as aid tools and utilize what is closer to ESL teachings then the typical programs runned here in Asia.) the neccessity of foreign teacher (espeically one that isn’t actually good at you know… teaching) is really more limited then before. I mean today everyone have the internet and most cable companies runs at least several all English channals. no one can seriously claim the lack of English enviornment like it was back 20-30 years ago if they make real attempts.
Pawi @17 – Don’t believe the hype. The 400 to 2000 (depending who you talk to) far right loonies protesting Korean popular culture (mind you, when Koreans, French, Canadians, etc. pass laws to protect their respective cultural heritage by guaranteeing a certain % of native content, that’s ok – especially when to this very day there are Korean laws in place meant to protect their media content industry, especially vis-a-vis Japan) are truly representative of all of Japan and their racist ways. The 45K at Tokyo Dome on the other hand… all but an illusion. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were just card board cut-outs, and (gasp!) KOREANS actually in the seats. Don’t let the tricky Japanese fool you… they are all evil racists.
(and for those of you just tuning in, I am being sarcastic).
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again (and again, and again), this current growth of Korean popular culture in Japan is a wonderful thing for both countries.
Oh, and as to your English craze comment. Bubble burst in Japan like 5 years ago. Several of the big ESL schools went under…. this has all happened before, and it will happen again (always throw in the BSG references special for you…)
There’s really no reason at all why there must be a native English speaker in every classroom. Most countries get by just fine by relying on highly-proficient, professionally-trained locals. There’s no reason, for example, why a preschooler has to be in a classroom with a native English speaker to learn phonics. Invite highly-qualified, experienced native-English-speaking teachers to teach at the university level and for adult-level and business courses, where accuracy in grammar and pronunciation are paramount. Kids don’t need to be native-level fluent. I haven’t seen any evidence whatsoever that testifies to the effectiveness vis a vis language acquisition of having a 10-year-old spend an hour a day, three times a week with a white dude, and, given the sorry state of the English ability of Korean children, I highly doubt this evidence exists. I’m quite confident that a highly-proficient, professionally-trained Korean teacher makes for a much more effective and knowledgeable English teacher than a white bum with a BA. Alas, a Korean teacher lacks the marketability and goofiness of a foreign dancing bear.
Also, in regards to incentivizing teachers to assimilate to Korean society: assimilation—especially having solid Korean language abilities—is also a major deal breaker for most schools, and going beyond the basics of learning how to eat with chopsticks and ordering “make-chuuu o-bake see-see juicy-o” is strongly discouraged. In fact professing to having any knowledge of Korean can make you downright toxic, lest the parents think you might accidently slip a word or two of Korean into your lessons.
You are saying Korean TV import a program like the this one on Fuji TV?
“합법적인 AV 방송?”…日 ‘좀더 온천에 가자’ 선정성 논란
It is a waste of public media. Most Koreans do not understand why Fuji TV is so much on k-wave. Isn’t Fuji TV related to Sankei, a right wing media?
I guess it simply meets their financial interest — no more production cost vs. huge profit from k-dramas and k-pop.
That may be true, but I can tell you that the kids whom I taught at an ultra-expensive hagwon in Seoul had flat out amazing English skills by the time they were 12 years old. They started a full kindergarten program at 6-7 years old and then hit up the 2 hour (3 times a week class) by the time they were ten or so to keep their skills refreshed. Having those kids in an English-only environment did wonders for their skills…of course at a massive price to their parents.
Sure, but how many Korean teachers are there capable of this? I’m very suspect that there are enough of these teachers to conduct classes fully in English (and there is a good amount of data to suggest that this inductive approach is very effective in developing language skills and is far better than any grammar-translation method which is heavily used in Korean grade schools and academies). If those teachers were readily available, you’d get no complaints from me. I think many of the parents are not looking for just language teachers so much as wanting their child in an English sink-or-swim environment to learn. I’m sure if they got both in one package they’d be thrilled, but it’s easier said than done.
#12,
Well, if you want a tenure-track position like I have, you’d better have a busload of experience (although I’ve heard greasing palms also works).
This has nothing to do with this post but i just had to share…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0h2t3ZONqc&feature=related
oops..has to do with coming to Korea and setting up a blog from xtranormal…
@13- that is a very narrow-minded pov.
As a parent, I have and will again do my utmost to have my children be taught by the “better” teachers. If you are generalising against hagwons, then the case is even more so. The parents are paying to have their children taught. It’s their prerogative to ask for better teachers. “Beter” doesn’t necessarily mean more experienced or more educated. Being able to build a rapport with the students to entice and encourage learning can be even more critical in being a better teacher. So, why not stand out and let the parents complain. Perhaps with more English teachers becoming shining examples, even hagwons can take note and standards for teaching credentials can improve to benefit both the teachers and the students.
What I want to know is: Are the students of these gangbangin kyopos dropping all kind of F-bombs in their conversational English?
“In their statement, the groups said that the arrest of a wanted attempted murder who taught openly in Gangnam for a decade shows just how poor the government’s management of foreign English teachers are.”
Actually, it shows how poor the government controls F-4 visas and hagwon owners (he was a hagwon owner, not a teacher).
“They called on the government to take direct responsibility for training foreign teachers, as well as to take other measures to make sure illegal and unqualified teachers can’t come to Korea.”
These people are completely oblivious to the visa application process, I see. Can’t say I’m surprised. Xenophobia is a form of ignorance, after all.
“…while local offices of education make foreign teachers undergo training once a year.”
I hope they drag me there. I’d record everything, then pick their methodology apart in a paper I’d get published…that or I’d come armed with questions they couldn’t possible answer.
#27 Someguyinkorea,
You conveniently didn’t mention F-2 er’s. They should not be exempt either.
“new foreign teachers at schools must undergo more than 60 hours of training”
Huh, “Training?” It’s more like 60 hours of orientation or Kum-ba-ya Korea gathering and sign-up to their preferred bank.
#14 Benjamin Wagner,
Your 2nd link is dead!
#30,
Conveniently forgot the F-2?
Let me guess, you’re on an E2 and are unable to understand the difference between a work visa and an immigration visa. No, I didn’t forget it. The F-2 application process is much more extensive than the F-4 process. Look it up.
PS. When I got married, they weren’t even giving permanent residence to foreign men married to South Korean women. Think about it. I was dependent on my employment to stay here with my spouse. So, really, if you think the E2 process is stressful, you’re not getting much sympathy from me.
This irony-free moment was brought to you by theotherkorean.
I used to work in Songpa-gu with the Canadian gyopo Sang-woo Ye who was arrested for murder. It was a complete shock to hear of this news. Can’t find any info about him now to know if he was convicted.
@Someguy
Was it really difficult for you to obtain your F-2? I only ask because I often wonder if the process is more involved for foreign men marrying Korean women.
My husband got my F-2 done in one visit when we first married.
I got my F-5 (영주권) taken care of with no fuss at all after my first child was born last year. They didn’t ask me to come in for an interview or even require my presence when the documents were submitted.
I’m glad I didn’t have to go through any rigamarole, but the process should really be standard for everyone.
Except that that is the most impressionable time and the pronunciation learned at that point is what will stick with them forever. Compare kids in the younger grades now and their pronunciation vs adults around 30 who only first met a native speaker around middle school.
What loophole?
F-visa holders are held to the same employment regulations as Koreans for the most part (other than not being allowed to work in a couple industries). The issue is instead with hagwons, and has absolutely nothing to do with the F-visa.
But then again you just sound like someone with a giant chip on their shoulder and very little clue what it is they’re so enraged about.
Milton@21 – There is an other side to a native teacher in every classroom. I’m actually an alumni of the Japan Exchange Teaching (JET) Programme. The JET program is jointly run by the Japanese foreign ministry, education ministry, and another quasi-ministry called Clair. The JET Program has been bringing 1000s of native English teachers into Japan, year in and year out for over 25 years. These 10′s of thousands of JET alumni overwhelmingly go back to their own countries spreading Japan’s soft power, and acting as unofficial cheerleaders for Japan. The Korean government tried their own version of JET, called ETIC. Unfortunately ETIC was no where near as successful as the JET programme, and sadly, at least in the early stages, participants were returning to their home countries with a bit of a bad taste in their mouths (I’m not talking about the ESL schools, which led to State Dep’t warnings and the like, I’m talking a government program. I have heard, however, that ETIC has got their act together a bit (can anyone verify this) and if that is the case, the long term effects could be very positive. JET alumni often return to their home countries and work for Japanese companies, or do Japan related work, and spread good will towards Japan. A well run ETIC could do that and more.
Personally, I like to think of Korea’s various English teacher programs as a sort of non-military French Foreign Legion. Gives those with sketchy pasts a second chance.
The complication is that education deals with kids though.
34. This guy?!
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2010/10/another-overseas-korean-wanted-for.html
What I don’t understand is why they just won’t consolidate all of these responsibilities into one depatrment/ministry and set a clear set of standards…even EPIK clearly states that you don’t need a BS/BA to teach in Korea.
Japonymous wrote:
I can see you’ve been cheerleading for Japan here at TMH. Japan Probe also paints Japan with all positive images. It almost reminds me of North Korean propaganda advertising the nation as 지상낙원(地上樂園). Anyway, Japan sounds like a good place to go to teach English if it is not with unceasing threat of health risk from radiation and earthquake. Any problem you experienced in teaching English in Japan?
The problem is –
There seems to be a lack of them in Korea.
The highly-proficient, professionally-trained Korean teachers in the Public schools at the moment are constantly asking the foreign native teacher “Is this correct?” “How do I say this?”
and then they go and teach the students such things as “Let’s do swimming…. How about we do mountain climbing?”
I had one “highly-proficient, professionally-trained Korean teacher” teach the students last week “Let’s go on a picnic, and no less, do swimming”.
He thought no less can be substituted for “also” at any time, because he thought no less = also.
Foreign teachers are being cut at the moment, so people like pawi and Q have won.
They are being cut though, due to BUDGET CUTS (free school lunches, etc) means no money to employ foreign teachers.
also the budget cuts mean that the schools can no longer afford to employ “highly-proficient, professionally-trained foreign teachers” rather they want just out of university, blonde, blue eyed, young, pretty, female teachers from North America” who will work on the lowest salaries – because they have no experience.
WK, the fact that it deals with kids makes the Fullbright/JET/ETIK model all the more significant. Again, can’t speak for ETIK, but there is a great deal of vetting for the Fullbright and JET instructors.
http://asiancorrespondent.com/22084/korean-girls-in-australian-prostitution-ads/
Yep, and let’s have Australia recall working holiday and student visas for your slutty sisters and thus get rid of most of the worthless whores in the country.
“get rid of the craze for English”. You’re either a moron of the highest order or so intentionally fucking dense that you think you could carry out such a lofty feat of social engineering. Maybe you could have the Korean government appoint you as the high arbiter of taste! Do us all a favor, move away from the keyboard, go outside and get some sunshine and thereby stop exposing ourselves to daily doses of wank and dribble.
Mrs Choi in the past the rules were translate as being a “spouse” visa, but in practise applications were only accepted from women. This is no longer the case although one suspects they will look more closely at male applicants particularly the ability to support ones spouse aspects.
Also whilst the visa application can be done in one visit, you have to have all the necessary documentation ready, and nimber of visits may depend on perceived need for further scrutiny!
I suspect that many of the esl teacher would think that a very suitable analogy for their experience in Korean hagwons.
aaronm@42- this is one of those extremely rare circumstances when I may have to (sorta kinda) agree with Pawii. That is, I agree with him, if what he means to say is that there is a fad of sorts in Korea right now (and for the past 20 years) for all things English conversation. This fad has, as is often the case in Korea (see cloned Kpop groups, Coffee chains, etc.) led to an explosion of ESL based cram schools. In order to fill the need for said schools, there has been an HR issue, as it is difficult to lure the best applicants out of their (developed) countries for a salary that, quite frankly, ain’t that great. Many, many, many of the cram school teachers are probably thus in it for more than just money, and that “something” is probably a genuine desire to internationalize and an interest in Korea. there will be some, however, who are not the best qualified, nor the best people, but that’s where the “craze” (read: fad) comes into play. If there was no faddish aspect to the hiring, there would not have been the same level of desperateness from the recruiters to bring people in.
I am, however, fascinated by the “ESL teacher boogeyman” issue that I see brought up time an d time again on the K-blogs. Fascinated 1 for the comparative Japan teacher expat v. Korea teacher expat happenings (not really and issue this side of “the sea”, fascinating 2, as it is interesting to see how lines are drawn as to “qualified” and “unqualified.” Often see the lack of teaching credentials being floated, but this is a non-issue. If teaching credentials were required there would be like NO ESL instructors at any pre-university school in Japan or Korea. Clearly there is some classic xenophobia in play here as well.
You don’t have to get rid of the English craze, first Koreans have to actually understand what they are trying to obtain, and the actual process that is required to obtain it. We all know why Koreans study English, but the methods (and motivation) for learning it are childish and without moral compass.
Anyone notice recently that all the children’s programs on Korean cable have been dubbed in English, and the same goes for children’s movies at theaters.
Every Korean wants their child to be tall, smart, pretty, great at English, go to a top university, work at a big Korean company and marry into a rich family. Korean parents do not care if their children actually learn English well, nor do they believe learning in itself can be rewarding or enrich one’s life and character. This is why Koreans cannot learn English, in spite of all the billions they waste in the effort.
#32 Someguyinkorea,
“Let me guess, you’re on an E2 and are unable to understand the difference between a work visa and an immigration visa.”
Yes, only f visa holders are capable of such understanding. Typical, Arrogant Anus-hole. You can stick your “sympathy” up that same hole, who asked for it?
sorry – I meant dubbed in Korean
Awarren – I think you over generalise when you say “Every korean wants…” there are many parents who want their children to be armed with the tools with which to compete in the world, and The English language is one of them. English, I believe, is still the top language spoken as either primary and secondary language (I don’t mean population wise, but in number of countries). Unless this changes, I don’t think the “English craze” will die down. Yes, I agree that there are too many Korean parents who have bought into the craze for the sake of keeping up with the trend, but it’s not “every Korean”.
Awarren, confused a bit. What’s your point about children shows (I’m assuming non-Korean shows) dubbed in Korean (or did you mean English all along)? Why would a child want to watch a show with subtitles?? Could you imagine if Pokemon were subtitled in English instead of dubbed? Not so popular, me thinks…
#14 Benjamin Wagner,
Here is what that dead 2nd link(Chronical) or Kim, Mun-sang, director of the institute’s Advanced Robotics Research Center said about native English teachers and Robots…
“One indication of South Korea’s lingering fears about an influx of foreigners can be found at the Korea institute of Science and Technology, where $100 million in government money has been spent developing robot English teachers. Prototypes of the robot are operated remotely from the Philippines, keeping the “moral problems” associated with non-Koreans at arm’s length, says Kim, Mun-sang, director of the institute’s Advanced Robotics Research Center.
There are some problems and some accidents in hiring native speakers at the schools right now,” he says. “For example, the immigration system in Korea is not good enough to examine whether the foreign visitors are clean or not, or they did some crime,” he adds. “That’s the reason why the government thinks about robot systems. They don’t have any such social problems, they don’t do drugs.”
And Korean teachers don’t drink soju, get drunk, beat their students, wives, do drugs, or molest students aye? The morals of Koreans are simply superb so no robots are needed to replace them. Kim, Mun-sang could earn more money if he were to start a crusade against Korean teachers who do commit more crimes.
@ Japonymous,
No argument there is a craze, as you call it, however dictating to an entire country (especially when you are a non-national like our mate Pawi) that it should be controlled or even eradicated is patently absurd. Korean parents detect there is a need for their children to learn the language, thus the demand. How instruction in that language is delivered is another thing.
I’m seeing a similar thing here in Jakarta, where Mandarin academies are springing up everywhere. I’m sure some of them are little more than fronts for bilking students of their money, but I can no more dictate what kids here should learn than tell the wind in which direction it should blow.
Japonymous – what I mean is that foreign made cartoons and children programs that until recently were in English with Korean subtitles have now been dubbed in Korean on cable networks, and more and more so at the cinema. Playhouse Disney (for small children) has disappeared from Korean cable networks altogether, while Disney Channel (elementary school to the teens) has been completely dubbed into Korean.
You would think that a country crazy about English language study and education in general, would not feel it is being too hard on the little ones to have them watch such programs in English. Maybe they would pick up an English word or two.
@31, 52 hooray for robots. (btw, the link is functioning just fine over here.)
@fanwarrior
1) I know I have a tendency to post comments that are chock full of grammar errors and misspellings, but in this case I’m quite certain that my use of the term “F visa loophole” couldn’t be clearer. But let me go ahead and restate my point so there’s no further confusion: The original post was talking about how some groups in Korean society are calling for greater restrictions on on “foreign teachers” (원어민 강사), when clearly the problem is not “foreign teachers” in general but a small subset of heritage visa (F visa) holders. My point is pretty obvious and indisputable: as long as F visa holders are exempt from said restrictions, the problem isn’t going away. For the record I’m not at all opposed to the concept of heritage visas, marriage visas, or long term residency visas and the attendant privleges granted to holders of these visas. Just don’t blame the trouble caused by holders of these visas on other groups.
2) Your claim that I have a “chip on my shoulder” is completely false. I’m not a teacher and am not on an E2 visa. I graduated from EFL a long time ago.
3) Your claim that I’m “enraged” is also false. I did not express anger, merely an opinion. A strong opinion to be sure, but not an angry one. Please point out to me where exactly I expressed “rage”.
Q@40 – As to your question on whether I experience any problems while teaching on the JET programme… sure… there were problem here and there, but for the most part, it was an amazing experience, and one that I would recommend to any recent university grad with an interest in Japan. Back then (I hear some of the perks have been removed over the years) we got flown to Tokyo first or biz class, got checked into 5 star hotels for orientation, got decent cheap (or free, depending on placement) housing, decent salaries, and about 3 months paid vacation. Only about 20% of the applicants would qualify, and most extended their contracts beyond the minimal one year stay. It was an added bonus that in my two year stint I never once experience an earthquake of note.
And Q, if you think that the JET programme and other soft diplomacy of Japan leading to positive external views of Japan, and an appreciation of said culture, is similar to North Korean propaganda then you either have never experienced or been subjected to North Korean propaganda, are an instrument of North Korean propaganda, or have very stunted cognitive faculties.
I can tell also, Q, that you have never been to Japan past the possible occasional quick stop-over in Narita. Rare is the Japan hater who has actually spent time in Japan. Its easy to hate when one has never experienced.
Awarren @ 54 – ok, get your point now, though, I still think that this is capitalism plain and simple. Its all about knowing your market. The cartoon networks just want eyes in front on the tube (sorry LCD flat screen panel, preferably manufactured by Samsung). It is not their role to educate. Though I now get annoyed when I watch dubbed non-English flicks, I can not imagine having the patience to sit through a sub-titled anything when I was 7.
Japonymous wrote:
Back then (I hear some of the perks have been removed over the years) we got flown to Tokyo first or biz class, got checked into 5 star hotels for orientation, got decent cheap (or free, depending on placement) housing, decent salaries, and about 3 months paid vacation.
What do you mean by “Back then”? It is not like that now any more? Are you treated like the now? Back then, Korea had a golden period when English teachers were very well treated.
It is evident that you do not have proper understanding of English. Did I say JET programme and other soft diplomacy of Japan? Read what I wrote. I was talking about Japan probe.
And read the recent article of Japan probe: Taiwanese Politician Faces Charges Over Yasukuni Protest. See the Japan probe totally ignore what Ysukuni represent. The blog interchanges true victims and criminals. That’s the shameless Japanese propaganda parallel with North Koreans.
Japonymous wrote:
Hey, I only hate Yasukuni followers
and Japanese right wing politicians. I have no problem with the rest of Japanese.
#48,
Obviously you don’t get it. If you don’t like the restrictions of your work visa, don’t drag others down along with you, especially not immigrants like F-2 and F-5 visa holders who are working hard to provide for their families. Do something proactive instead, such as getting different job or applying for citizenship. If you don’t like those choices, then you’ll have to accept the E2 visa for what it is, a restrictive work visa that serves as an easy target for politicians who make appeals to the nationalistic sentiment instead of doing anything that is particularly productive, such as tackling environmental issues.
I’m not saying you’re jealous, but I know some E2 visa holders are of F-visa holders. I get it at work. One of my co-workers, a long time friend, told me that a great deal of the others at work are jealous of my good fortune. Are they jealous of our Korean co-workers? No. So, why? They just don’t get that F-visa holders are immigrants. They can’t see that I’m just one step away from becoming a Korean citizen, and at this point it would only be a formality. I’d have very little to gain from it since, as an immigrant, I have the same freedoms and most of the same rights are South Korean citizens.
#35,
The F-2 visa was a pain to get when they first began handing them out. It involved several trips to the applicant’s embassy to get documents signed and notarized (marriage certificate, etc) and also to city hall. And still, F-2 visa holders had basically no special freedom other that he or she didn’t need to leave the country in order to apply for a new work visa (yes, we still had to get work visas and get re-entry visas whenever traveling abroad). Back then, one had to have the F-2 visa for 5 years in order to apply for an F-5, and the only benefit it offered over the F-2 was that you didn’t have to renew it. I can’t remember the year, but one day it was decided that Immigration had no authority over our choices of employment (it was during the Roh administration. One of the few good things it accomplished, as far as I’m concerned). When I heard it, the sky opened up, birds were singing (just kidding). It was a relief.
#60,
Better yet, until just a couple of years ago they made the parents of kids who had dual citizenship apply for a visa. It was a means to pressure the parents into renouncing their kid’s foreign citizenship.
@33 thekorean
“”Korea.
The destination for loser Kyopos who can’t make something out of themselves in the US of A.”
This irony-free moment was brought to you by theotherkorean.”
There certainly is irony in the fact that gyopos are the most vocal critics of ‘ESL loser teachers’ in Korea while at the same time they themselves make up an active component of the ‘loser teacher’ population and have the worst record of criminality here.
Irony. Hypocrisy. Shamelessness. These are all words that come to mind.
This reminds me of visa issues on the other side of this coin. Has the US done anything yet to stop the Korean and other women who are coming into the US just go give birth and abuse our good graces?
Selective sympathy is another word that comes to mind and I don’t think its particular to Koreans. In the case of the four ethnic-Koreans wanted on murder charges in the US and Canada and teaching English in Korea, the Korean media has shown a willingness to try to understand these individuals’ situation. After David Hyeon Nam was convicted of murdering a 75-year-old American ex-cop, an article bemoaned his “cruel fate” (‘가혹한 운명’). Programs like “locked up abroad” seem to run on that kind of ethno-national selective sympathy.
#66,
Good point. Remember that American who wrote a book about spending time in a South Korean jail? Sure, he has good points about “foreigner only” jails to offer, but still, the American media would have painted a very different portrait of him if he had been smuggling drugs into the US.
I didn’t read any of the links or source material, but wasn’t anybody surprised that “foreign teachers accounted for 29.4% of foreign drug smuggling crimes last year”?
and those foreign teachers were Kyopos? does that surprise you???
#62 Someguy
I got my F-2-1 in 2004. I had to keep my separate work visa, as well. We didn’t have to make any special trips to the embassy, but I already had a notarized copy of our marriage license. Seems like a reasonable document to keep on hand anyway.
The only thing that annoyed me about the F-2 was that I had to pay for a multiple entry pass.
I had no interest in getting the F-5 until my baby was born in 2010. I had been here on the F-2 for 6 years at that point.
@silver surfer
“There certainly is irony in the fact that gyopos are the most vocal critics of ‘ESL loser teachers’ in Korea while at the same time they themselves make up an active component of the ‘loser teacher’ population and have the worst record of criminality here.
Irony. Hypocrisy. Shamelessness. These are all words that come to mind.”
It sounds like you do not like kyopos. Kyopos have the worst record in Korea and are the most vocal critics of “ESL loser teachers”? I’d like to know where you got that information from. I know plenty of people (white, Korean, black, kyopo, etc.) who are vocal about the education system in Korea.
In regards to kyopos having the worst criminality rate, I’d have to disagree. Of course there are a lot of kyopos that commit crimes in Korea, but what about all of the guys in the US army who commit crimes & get to go back to America instead of serving time in Korea? Also, according to 2 guys I know who worked in a foreign jail, surprisingly there are more Canadians than any other nationality in the foreign jail they were at.
I like visiting the Marmot’s Hole, but the number of anti-kyopo/racist comments is pretty disturbing.
There is also irony in the fact that ESL teachers here just harp on and on about how they are not to be treated the same as “ESL loser teachers,” yet gleefully pounce on the gyopo teachers and smear the names of all gyopos.
I agree it’s hypocritical to bag on those ‘other’ ‘bad’ teachers if you are one yourself, but there’s nothing wrong with denying that an ugly stereotype fits if it doesn’t.
It’s also not fair to all gyopos to smear them with the misdeeds of some. Do I need to say I only meant to include those gyopos that do those things, not all gyopos? Ok, should have qualified my statement. But when all the most vitriolic attacks against you come from a certain sector, that sector has to expect some reaction. You dish it out, you take it.
yeah, many ‘kyopo’ english teachers may go to korea to party and have sex but they don’t usually walk around with contempt for half of the korean population.
now you know why they get a pass and you don’t.
Your right Pawi, 50% is way too low a figure.
Funny thing is you say this without a hint of self-reflection about just what the hell is wrong with this statement.
You must log in to post a comment.