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No Dokdo (or Ulleungdo) for you!

So, Japanese lawmakers Yoshitaka Shindo, Tomomi Inada and Masahisa Sato touched down at Gimpo Airport this morning.

But the government has denied them entry, and they’ll be sent back on the ANA plane on which they came.

Ahead of their attempted visit, Prof. Shimojo Masao, described by Yonhap as “a Takushoku University professor with very rightist views on territorial issues,” was also turned away at Incheon Airport.

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  • http://dok.do/4lur41 Apodyopsis Gymnophoria

    Exactly what the Japanese lawmakers wanted.

    Now, the rest of the world will take notice.

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    No one outside of Japan and Korea is gonna notice nothing. This may make the news in Japan for like 39 seconds, which, arguably is 39 seconds more than Dokdo/Takeshima news will ever make the news in Japan. So, in that way, yes, maybe a “win” for these Japanese politicians, but, it ain’t gonna go any further than that in Japan, and it ain’t gonna go nowhere past that anywhere else.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Now, the rest of the world will take notice.

    I seriously doubt that. And of the countries that would notice, like China, I don’t think you’ll see much sympathy for the Japanese.

  • http://www.bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    It’s unfortunate that these visitors were denied entry based on their thoughts, rather than on past misconduct or apprehension in the act of preparing future potential misconduct. It’s unlawful for foreign visitors on a tourist visa or in a visa-waiver status to engage in political protests, yes, but it should not be unlawful to have ideas which are unpopular. The thing to do with probable troublemakers is to follow ‘em around and monitor their conduct for signs of preparation to break the law.

    It should also be noted that the same level of vigilance against would-be thought criminals is not undertaken when the purpose of the visit is to inveigh against some purported transgression of the United States. Foreigners enter Korea as tourists all the time to denounce America in some political protest or another. But those ideas are popular, I guess.

  • Ampontan

    [[Whether Shimojo will try entry to South Korea again is still unknown]] (Yonhap)

    Silly thing to say, considering that he owns property in South Korea (through his South Korean wife) and visits regularly.

    [[(O)f the countries that would notice, like China, I don’t think you’ll see much sympathy for the Japanese.]]

    As if the Japanese would look to the Chinese for sympathy for their territorial claims, or that anyone other than the Chinese take Chinese views on territorial claims seriously.

    [[It’s unlawful for foreign visitors on a tourist visa or in a visa-waiver status to engage in political protests, yes...]]

    You mean like the South Korean bravos who went to Tsushima and burned the Japanese flag?

  • http://www.bcarr.com Brendon Carr
    It’s unlawful for foreign visitors on a tourist visa or in a visa-waiver status to engage in political protests, yes…

    You mean like the South Korean bravos who went to Tsushima and burned the Japanese flag?

    I don’t know the first thing about Japanese immigration law; my only information is what I know about the Korean immigration law. It would be unlawful for Japanese to enter Korean territory on a tourist visa and burn a Korean flag if the purpose was some form of political speech. Maybe if the flag caught fire by accident, perhaps by brushing up against a cigarette…

  • Q

    The intent of politicians’ visit was very evident that they claim Dokdo is jap’nese territory. It is a violation and threat to the security of Korea. Korean governement did a very commonsensical measure, minimizing unnecessary cacophony and political show of the Jap’nese.

    Why Jap’n has so much trouble with neighbor countries? 왕따 되는게 그렇게 좋냐?

  • gbevers

    Robert wrote:

    Ahead of their attempted visit, Prof. Shimojo Masao, described by Yonhap as “a Takushoku University professor with very rightist views on territorial issues,” was also turned away at Incheon Airport.

    So anyone who disagrees with Korea’s territorial claim to Dokdo is a “rightist” and is, therefore, barred from entering Korea?

    What if Japan were to ban every Korean who did not support Japan’s claim to Takeshima (Dokdo)?

    Is this how South Korea shows itself to be a “first-class” country? Or is it just more evidence that, when it comes to propaganda and historical distortion, there is really not much difference between Koreans in the north part of the peninsula and those in the south.

  • Wedge

    Chalk one up in the “L” column for Korea.

  • wjk, 검은 머리 외국인

    the only way South Korea will turn over the islands is by war. Germany is not making claims to dozens of former landpieces because they LOST the war and committed crimes against humanity. Japan also LOST the war and committed crimes against humanity and they are making claims about an island they only started claiming at the beginning of 1900 with the purpose of making war with Russia.
    I have no shame in swiping my credit care for the Red Cross to help out Japan. Those who should have shame are United States gyopos who buy Japanese automobiles. They should go f themselves.

  • H.Schmidt

    Korea does have the legal grounds to ban entry of Japanese lawmakers. The Japanese lawmakers even said “We don’t intend to fight there. We want to express our feeling of anger to the South Korean people”. Shindo and his stupid friends just the clowns of Japanese politics.

  • yuna

    I don’t know..looks pretty bad for Japan

    Shindo, the grandson of a general in the imperial Japanese army

    The two other lawmakers are Tomomi Inada, a former lawyer who denies the 1937 Nanjing massacre in China, and Masahisa Sato, a former member of the military who headed a Japanese reconstruction mission to Iraq in 2004.

    whereas

    Seoul “cannot guarantee the lawmakers’ safety”

    sounds very reasonable.

  • yuna

    What’s telling about Japan is that these people with these surprising views (no matter how much the Japan apologists say that it’s only the right wing politicians and the rest of Japan don’t care) belong to one of the two *major* parties, and not some right wing extreme groups/fringe political Ossan groups.. very often, the prime minister himself…

  • yuna
  • commander

    #8 beavers, obviously the Japanese politicians are using this opportunity, rather stupidly and stubbornly, to gain notoriety for themselves and to purposely agitate the Korean people.

    If these clowns want to visit Dokdo then why don’t they just rent a boat and row over from Japan? If this ridiculous bunch of rocks belong to Japan, then access it from Japan rather than rubbing it in the faces of their rivals.

    Both sides are childish but the Japanese just look stupid on this one.

  • yuna

    Yes, in fact, Koreans should just be very glad this has happened, because for years they’ve been making song and dance about how the Japanese have designs to take THIS island (and no, not just to use it as a case against the Russians and the Chinese in the other disputes) and everyone else has been saying “paranoid over-the-top Korea…Japan doesn’t care..”
    Now their government (and also the “Don’t use Korean Air” directive) has shown that they are not so lofty, and these *crazy* Korean protesters and worriers might not have been so crazy..

  • Fullslab

    #4,
    “Foreigners enter Korea as tourists all the time to denounce America in some political protest or another. ”

    Link please?

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    Yuna@14: A cheap ploy by who? The quasi-socialist Japanese Prime Minister who, in all likelihood loathes the four (3?) politicians in question. Furthermore, as someone who clearly has a great deal of experience with Japan, do you really think this is the kind of news that would be considered “distracting” in Japan? Should Brangelina or AKB48 or Kara be heading to Dokdo, THEN we would have a distraction. Heck, even the conservative Chosun Daily points out that this is getting like zero coverage in Japan:

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/08/01/2011080100350.html

    Where they state:
    With the exception of the rightwing the Sankei Shimbun, the Japanese media have carried no reports about the planned trip.

    Really, no one (and by “no one” I mean like over 90% of the population) really cares about this stuff on this side of the Sea of Japan. Call me, and like everyone else who is capable of observing stuff in Japan, an apologist for making that claim, but, I’m just calling it as I see it. You will see no restaurants or bars named after the disputed islets here. No PR drives to encourage shopping at this store or that, due to the owners fervent belief that the islets are “theirs.” (Always smiled when I saw that kind of stuff in NYC – restaurants named after Dokdo, or pictures of Dokdo on the menusm or on bus station ads, and the like). No, none of this. (Who knows, maybe if I visit Shimane prefecture, it will be a different story, but Shimane is just one small prefecture in a very big country.)

    As you are also well aware, the LDP, though, ostensibly, one party, has actually acted as a sort of window dressed harmonizing organization for a half a dozen political factions. Quite a few of the members of the current left leaning party in charge were actually former LDP members. The LDP always was, and continues to be much more than just a political party, it is an institution. An institution which has always drawn in voices from all sorts and all political spectrum. The main distinction of the LDP, and other parties is, however, the spectrum does not really comfortably allow for membership of those in the far left. They either gravitate to the Communist, Socialist, or ruling DPJ party of Japan.

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    Question, why are my comments “awaiting moderation”? Thanks.

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    ‘What if Japan were to ban every Korean who did not support Japan’s claim to Takeshima (Dokdo)?’ gerry bevers

    gerry, you are prime real estate for the white power movement.

  • http://dok.do/4lur41 Apodyopsis Gymnophoria

    It got into the American news – (San Francisco – The examiner)

    South Korean protesters threw pepper, curry sauce and salt at an arrival gate but the lawmakers were protected inside the airport.

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/news/2011/08/skorea-bans-japanese-lawmakers-row-over-islets

  • yuna

    I can see your comment (sometimes spam filter has a mind of its own) Japonymous, so I can answer.
    Yahoo has reported on it, so it’s again, very telling that if only Sankei has reported on it (what was your 39 seconds(long?) from?)
    Yeah, I guess I could say have a little more experience with Japan than your average Korean or Kyopo. I do know that by and large the Japanese are less hot-headed about things than your average Korean. That depends on the person, like everything. There are duplicitous wankers in every country. However, I know that in Japan, with their civilized, developed ways, people are very into “feigning”. Even the most politest and nicest people would “feign” disinterest, and ignorance about the issue and nonchalance. Doesn’t mean they a. do not have a clear view on it and b. have no agenda. I often joke with my Japanese girl friends that the success of Japanese marriage is based on lies to each other..
    This is in contrast to if you ask an average Korean, and even though they have not the slightest solid background on the subject, they will defend it to death…with spit flying out of their mouth.

    I’m just glad that the nasties are getting some airtime. You yourself say “you don’t care about the issue”, that’s probably what most Japanese on the street would say. Why should they instead not say “no it belongs to Korea, these troublemaking politicians should just step down, they are embarrassing Japan and alienating it from its friends for no substantial reason”? In fact you will probably find if pressed further they will probably have the same views as GBevers. That’s why the Koreans cannot accept that this is just a small political hooplah which flares up from time to time..Maybe it will eventually make news in Japan. Like always, my Japanese friends will say “It’s big issue in Korea.” but I still haven’t asked them what we should do about this. I guess I’m too much of a Japanese to be so directly confrontational.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Question, why are my comments “awaiting moderation”?

    No idea. Spam filter’s just funny that way. Sprung it from moderation for you, though.

  • exit86

    Has this solution been covered in the past on this site?

    http://www.taiwanbasic.com/tw/kt-dokdo.htm

    Funny! (I do hope it is true)

  • exit86

    Personally, I think it is sort of funny what these Japanese guys are doing.
    Anyone who knows anything about Japan knows that they have proven themselves masters of strategy as well as P.R.

    They know excatly what they are doing with this thing; and I see similar
    playfulness with the anger of Koreans that they’ve used in the past–particularly with their psychological campaigns during the Colonization
    (Gov. General HQ in one of Korea’s finest feng shui points of power, smack dab in the middle of 경복궁; rumors of driving the iron stakes into Korea’s mountains to drain the “ki” from the country; etc.)

    Don’t you Japan-hating, Dokdo-embracing, South Korean flag-wavers realize that these folks are playing with you all, trying to get a rise out of the whole lot of y’all.

    Funny how it is working excatly as planned!

    Keep railing against Japan all y’all non-Korean Koreans.
    Ha!!!!

  • exit86

    “Ex-cat-ly!” meow.

  • yuna

    In fact, I remember a talk show I watched in Japan back in April. It was a live link up between a studio audience in Tokyo and somewhere on the East coast (Boston?) of the US, talking about Japan’s tsunami and the nuclear disaster (with an American host! but dubbed in that cheesy voiceover way in Japanese)
    In the Japanese studio, there were some celebrities (like minor actors etc) mostly gambatte sentiment, but the one I remember most was a young Japanese uni student.
    I guess she got fired up by a (chinese-American?) student in the American studio who said that the Japanese government should do its best to be clear and inform its neighbours of the situation clearly..
    This Japanese student was very adamant that the neighbouring countries do not bring up the island issues, or use it in relation to the current situation in Japan. She seemed to have a pretty clear idea of what was going on(which I would say is most of the young people in Japan now), and was clearly speaking her mind (still mezurashii) to a large applause.

  • yuna

    I guess we would meow less about it if all the Japan watchers were as insightful as you exit86.

  • Q

    Gerry bevers wrote:

    What if Japan were to ban every Korean who did not support Japan’s claim to Takeshima (Dokdo)?

    Jap’nese govern’t already has been banning a Korean civilians, such as singer 정광태 who sang “독도는 우리땅.” decades long ago. Jap’nerse is 졸라 funny and 쪼잔해. I’m sorry the Jap’nese lawmakers tried to be funnier but couldn’t have a chance. 웃길려면 자리를 봐가면서 웃기라고.

  • exit86

    Sight is all the matter really requires, along with a complete, total, and utter lack of emotional investment.

    Once again, to quote my beautiful Japanese lady-friend, “What the hell is
    Dokdo? Who gives a sh_t???”

  • Q

    Jap’nese is 졸라 funny and 쪼잔해.

    I mean Jap’nese govern’t.

  • yuna

    Ahh, but maybe you should have followed it with “Jitsuwa Takeshima desu, and the politicians you have voted in with your fair hands, Happarently..”

  • H.Schmidt

    exit86 I’m a foreigner who’s visited Korea. All I can say is that the Koreans won on this one. The Japanese did not get what they wanted. Their objective was to lay historical claims and get Korean right-wing supporters to physically attack them and then they can go home telling the media about how they were physically abused and bla bla bla.

    Dokdo is quite important to Korea and Japan. Dokdo expands territorial waters, offers good security information about Northeast Asia and contains some oil reserves. However the most important thing is that Dokdo is a matter of pride.

    Japan is trying to shift news focus away from their nuclear disaster to Dokdo. However these Japanese morons did not get what they wanted, and that was time. These stupid Japanese politicians were basically locked up in the airport and nothing happened.

  • exit86

    This, in my mind, is what separates the Japanese from South (and North) Koreans: young Koreans have been fooled into thinking they’ve been put on this earth to continue fighting for Korean independence against their Japanese oppressors (the exact same ones who provided the engines for the first several lines of Hyundais, and the ones who provided POSCO with capital to start business, and the ones who provided the SK government with millions and millions and millions in low-interest loans, etc).

    Why has nobody informed the youth of Korea that Korea was awarded its independence long ago; and, then, Korea and Japan have been working together to the extent that–next to its own people and the US–Korea owes a LOT to Japan? Wow! Am I in North Korea or South Korea here?
    Is it 2011 or 1943????

    Young Japanese folks, on the other hand, have far more important things to think about, like partying, getting lotsa honey, dressing to the nines, rocking and rolling, doing their hair (guys and girls), and being young and having fun until the corporate machine sucks the life from them at the jobs they can only hope to get one distant day.

  • Q

    geRRy beVers wrote:

    Is this how South Korea shows itself to be a “first-class” country

    씨~발. Is Jap’n behav’ng like a first class country? geRRY, are you behav’ng like a man from a first class country? Are you contributing to the reconciliation and forgiveness among Asian countries? You are really 나쁜 사람. Don’t ever dream of coming back through Incho’n airport unless you determined to be carried at 화물칸 of the flight and coming in through the baggage claim belt.

    싸움 구경 재미있소?

  • H.Schmidt

    exit86 Japan has more to worry about that just partying. How about solving their Fukushima crisis issue? There are still thousands of Japanese stranded in Fukushima, while the Japanese people are scared of radioactive beef from Tōhoku. I’ve been to Japan before and the people weren’t as racist as you would like to portray.

    I heard that young Japanese students in Fukushima can’t even go outside to play sports because of the high amount of radiation. Japanese have a lot more to worry about than Dokdo.

    Guess who provided the first technological advances to Japan? Korea. If you’ve ever read studies on genetics and anthropology, you’ll find out that the Japanese are largely descended from Korean people who intermingled with the local Japanese population. Japan’s first technological innovations came from Korea. Saying that Korea’s first car engines came from Japan is useless. Japan’s first car engines came from America/the west.

  • gbevers

    Commander wrote (#15):

    #8 beavers, obviously the Japanese politicians are using this opportunity, rather stupidly and stubbornly, to gain notoriety for themselves and to purposely agitate the Korean people.

    If these clowns want to visit Dokdo then why don’t they just rent a boat and row over from Japan? If this ridiculous bunch of rocks belong to Japan, then access it from Japan rather than rubbing it in the faces of their rivals.

    The Japanese did not want to visit Dokdo; they wanted to visit the Dokdo Museum on Ulleungdo, which supposedly showcases the historical evidence for Korea’s claim to Dokdo. However, the museum is little more than a propagada facility filled with distorted history and exhibits used to brainwash school children and ignorant Korean tourists. The Korean government was afraid the Japanese lawmakers would expose the museum for what it really is after their return to Japan.

    The Korean government simply fears the truth coming out, which is why it has helped incite all the crazy, hysterical crap about the intentions of the Japanese.

    Korea Times: “Silly, and shameless”

    The soft-liners are wrong. Diplomacy, especially territorial disputes, is like war, and the first step in any war is to know one’s adversary. Japan’s own response to such hospitality would be a surprise landing on Dokdo by some diehard nationalists. China is mobilizing economic and military means to claim Senkaku and Russia is stepping up the development of Kuril Islands.

    Korea’s response should be as determined as the intentions of the Japanese rightist, and more consistent and systematic, not temporary and hesitant like it is now.

    Dong-A Ilbo: “Ruling party heavyweight blasts Japanese lawmakers over visit”

    Lee Ju-young, policy committee chairman of the leading Grand National Party, harshly criticized three right-wing lawmakers of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party on Sunday for pushing ahead to visit South Korea`s Ulleung Island, calling it an indication of another provocation.

    A day before the Japanese lawmakers’ scheduled visit to the island, Lee held a news conference at the party headquarters in northern Seoul, saying, They`re pushing for the visit despite the Korean government’s ban based on the immigration control law. They`re assassins without swords.”

    Special Affairs Minister Lee Jae-oh visited Ulleung and Dokdo islets Sunday for a four-day stay. Calling himself “Dokdo`s protector,” he wrote on his Twitter page, “The Liberal Democratic Party of Japan is trying to pounce on Korean territory, Dokdo, to recover its declining ground in Japan. This is an ill-intended attempt,” adding, “The descendants of war criminals are trying to test Korea. I will clearly show that they have no room to stand in Dokdo.”

    Minister Lee will stay in Dokdo until Wednesday to counter Japan’s sovereignty claim, encourage residents, and stand sentry with guards. He had visited the islets in April after Japan approved textbooks claiming sovereignty over Dokdo.

    Chosun Ilbo: “Lee Wants Japanese Lawmakers Barred from Dokdo Mission”

    President Lee Myung-bak on Tuesday told his government to ban a group of rightwing Japanese lawmakers from Korea. The parliamentarians, of the conservative Liberal Democratic Party, want to visit Ulleung Island near Dokdo early next month in a bid to draw attention to Japan’s dubious territorial claim to the islets.
    ….
    Lee’s decision comes after ruling Grand National Party Chairman Hong Joon-pyo called for a ban. In a session of the GNP Supreme Council on Monday, Hong said, “The Justice Ministry should ban their entry because they’re coming to deny Korea’s constitutional order.”
    ….
    Lee is reportedly angry that Japanese lawmakers are launching these provocations even though Korea has made efforts to develop friendly relations with Japan, including extending a helping hand after the massive earthquake and tsunami there on March 11.

    Chosun Ilbo: “Seoul in Quandary Over Japanese Lawmakers’ Dokdo Mission”

    Korean lawmakers were up in arms. Special Affairs Minister Lee Jae-oh tweeted, “If their visit aims at supporting their country’s groundless territorial claim on Dokdo, it’s tantamount to encroachment of Korea’s sovereignty. I will use all means to stop them landing on the island.”

    Robert Koehler wrote:

    I seriously doubt that. And of the countries that would notice, like China, I don’t think you’ll see much sympathy for the Japanese.

    CNN: “South Korea blocks Japanese politicians from entering airport”

    The Associated Press: “SKorea bans Japanese lawmakers in row over islets”

    The Washington Post: “SKorea bans 3 Japanese lawmakers in latest row over disputed islets”

    The New York Times: “Japanese Lawmakers Denied Entry in South Korea”

    The West Australian: “Japan lawmakers refuse to quit disputed islands”

    AsiaOne: “Japan ‘regrets’ S. Korea denying entry to lawmakers”

    europapress: “Japón/Corea Sur.- Seúl envía al ministro de Asuntos Especiales a la isla de Ulleung”

    Dantri Vietnam: “Hàn Quốc cấm 3 nghị sĩ Nhật Bản nhập cảnh”

    stern.de: “Südkorea verweigert drei japanischen Angeordneten Einreise”

    Kompas: “Korsel Cekal Anggota Parlemen Jepang”

    Tribun Kaltim: “Korsel-Jepang Memanas Lagi”

    B 92: “Seul: Zabrana japanskim poslanicima”

    Galamus – Csoport: “Dél-Korea megakadályozta három japán képviselő látogatását egy szigetre”

    Terra Peru: “Seúl impide ingreso a Corea a diputados japoneses por diferendo territorial”

    Angola Press: “País nega entrada a três políticos japoneses”

  • yuna

    I doubt that the headlines necessarily equate sympathy for Japan.
    I am happy of all this coverage. No way should they have been allowed in. It would have been worse than curry and pepper. *Then* Korea would have looked bad. At this point, the government looks reasonable, and the Japanese, silly.

    And yet according to Japonymous who quoted Chosun, the only report in Japan is Sankei? It’s like the nuclear disaster all over again. Domestic press moratorium on things which are troublesome which everyone else gets real-time (e.g. Germany). No wonder the friends in Japan say they have to read non-Japanese press to get the info.
    I read a Korean comment that they cannot believe that the weirdos are actually Japanese politicians, that they suspect they are actually North Korean spies or something. That would be hilarious.

  • H.Schmidt

    CNN, the Washington Post and the NY Times don’t even have the news on their front page. No-one outside of Korea and Japan really gives a shit. To think otherwise is just being narrow-minded.

  • yuna

    At the moment it’s the most popular story on CNN though.

  • yuna

    Must be all the Marmot’s Hole traffic.

  • commander

    The Japanese politicians visiting Dokdo is just a bad idea. The events are fairly predictable.

    - Right wing Japanese visits Korea against the advice of the Korean govt.
    - Right wing Koreans protest right wing Japanese.
    - Things turn violent and right wing Japanese come in harm’s way.
    - Korean anti-riot police are deployed.
    - Protestors and police clash.
    - Damage is done to (Korean) property.
    - Protestors and police (Koreans) suffer injury.
    - The world looks on and ridicules Korea.
    - Japanese slink away unharmed, mission accomplished.

    Yeah, I think if I were calling the shots in Korea, I would ban those suckers from entering the country too.

  • H.Schmidt

    commander that is exactly what I think. The Japanese lawmakers wanted to have Korean protesters throwing stuff at them, attacking them and swearing at them. But it didn’t happen. That’s why I think this was a failure in Japan’s part. They were expecting the South Korean authorities to let them in. If the South Korean protesters attacked them, then the international media would be reporting: “Japanese lawmakers attacked by South Korean extremists”, etc. But what really happened was that the Japanese lawmakers were locked up into a room in the airport, so there’s nothing exciting for the media to report.

  • yuna

    I love it. They ordered Pibimbap and had a nice meal while they were waiting. I don’t know what’s more cute, that they had pibimbap, or that there is a Koreans report on it.

  • frogmouth

    Gerry Bevers states:

    “..The Japanese did not want to visit Dokdo; they wanted to visit the Dokdo Museum on Ulleungdo, which supposedly showcases the historical evidence for Korea’s claim to Dokdo. However, the museum is little more than a propagada facility filled with distorted history and exhibits used to brainwash school children and ignorant Korean tourists…”

    Mr Bevers, these right wing thugs were no more interested in “historical research” than you. You and their whole agenda is to agitate the Koreans.

    How do you know what is in the Dokdo museum? You’ve never even set foot on Ulleungdo. You think that after a decade of blubbering about Dokdo you would have visited the region at least once. The fact you haven’t shows you are not a researcher in the Dokdo issue, just a errand boy for you anonymous Japanese “friends” BTW do you even know real names of those on the blog you support? We are all curious.

    I was quite surprised to see the background on these Japanese. Korea came out on top on this one and the world can see the truth about who really drives the Takeshima issue in Korea. I hope these Ujoku Dantai didn’t double-park their black vans at Incheon International.

    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/獨島-竹島-the-dokdo-takeshima-dispute-why-asia-distrusts-japan.html

  • YangachiBastardo

    Young Japanese folks, on the other hand, have far more important things to think about, like partying, getting lotsa honey, dressing to the nines, rocking and rolling, doing their hair (guys and girls), and being young and having fun until the corporate machine sucks the life from them at the jobs they can only hope to get one distant day

    You mean waiting with growing despair for a life of freetering ? Comment i hear the most from Japanese peoeple:”The country is dying” (or variations on the theme)

  • YangachiBastardo

    I have no opinion on this, don’t know who’s right or wrong, but call me a moron
    i think with the impossible issues we are facing nowadays stressing over a couple of rocks is complete non-sense.

    When did democracy turn into idiocracy ?

  • Fullslab

    # 37,
    Impressive! I requested just one source, but I’m still waiting.

  • http://dok.do/4lur41 Apodyopsis Gymnophoria

    so the rest of the world HAS taken notice!

    It was a win-win situation for the Japanese – those sly people.

  • exit86

    H. wrote:

    “you’ll find out that the Japanese are largely descended from Korean people who intermingled with the local Japanese population. Japan’s first technological innovations came from Korea.”

    Wow! You have been brainwashed quite well! I congratulate the folks responsible for this, since they did a superb job.

    “Foreigner” eh????? Ha! If you ain’t already a citizen of S. Korea, I will be the first to formally request that you receive honorary citizenship (or an F-4 visa) ASAP.

    Keep waving that flag!

  • gbevers

    Japan Probe has a great article on Korea’s refusal to allow the Japanese lawmakers entry into Korea: LINK

    Japan Probe also makes a good point. If Korea had not made such a big deal of the Japanese lawmakers’ visit, it probably would not become the big news story it is today. The ultra-nationalism is Korea is the country’s own worst enemy.

  • commander

    It’s not a big story. It’s a failed ploy by the Japanese right wingers to carry their agenda to the shores of their rivals. Just charter a damn boat and plant a flag on Dokdo instead of going through Korea. If Dokdo belongs to Japan, why is it so hard to access it directly from the shores of Japan? The fact that the Japanese right wingers made a big deal about it beforehand brought the issue to the national attention of Korea. From there, the only right action for the Korean government was to ban the agitators from creating more trouble. If they had been permitted into the country under those conditions, it would’ve been front page news across the globe due to the predictably emotional response from Korean right wingers.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    This bit was interesting: Only 9.3% of Japanese high school students identified Dokdo as Japanese territory.

    Boy, those “Korean lies” must be really potent, eh Gerry?

  • cm

    #51, Bevers, I don’t consider Japanprobe a good site to use as source, considering their anti-Korean and anti-foreigners nature. Come on, you seriously believe that Koreans are afraid of these right wing Japanese revealing the truth so that’s why the visit was blocked? Oh Jesus, I can’t help my laugh of the week.

    #22, Yuna’s description of general Japanese traits, is spot on.

    #52, agreed with commander. The forced visit was to agitate and cause an international incident and turn the rocky island into a disputed zone with the world’s media focusing on it. The Korean government asked them not to come. But they did any way. The proper thing to do was to turn them back at the airport, lest this turns into an international incident in which the Japanese would have used as propaganda.

  • YangachiBastardo

    News outlets have to be filled up around the world 24 hours a day. Some flash line a dent in public opinion does make not.

    Probably if i visit some sensitive target downtown, say the American Consulate, and i start acting strangely, say picking my nose and scratching my butt long enough, disgustingly enough and annoyingly enough, i would win some police attention and probably a line in the local news.

  • Pedro the Macanamaqna

    Everybody here needs to just go to fucking hell.

    The Macanamaqna will now have his mezcal. Arriba arriba andale andale!!!.

  • YangachiBastardo

    Everybody here needs to just go to fucking hell.

    Start giving the good example

    Arriba arriba andale andale!!!.

    Are you aware of the fact Spanish is an ugly, peasant dialect of Italian and we basically taught you guys, with mixed results, how to read and write ?

    (just joking.. everybody here seems to be stirring the nationalistic shit, about what their great great great etc. gramps did)

  • H.Schmidt

    exit86, you’re the one waving the Japanese flag. I don’t care if you believe it or not, but even the Japanese professors accept that the Japanese language and their culture came from the Yayoi (proto-Koreans) from the Korean peninsula.

    Japan was once inhabited only by the natives… they’re basically hairy looking people who look like pale Australian Aboriginies. Japanese are largely a mixture of these people and the Yayoi (slanty eyed Koreans).

    Anyway I don’t live in Korea and I’m mainly of German descent (I have some English and Scottish in me but whatever).

  • Pedro the Macanamaqna

    Start giving the good example

    Then come with me if you want to live.

  • hamel

    Gerry Bevers, is it true that you have never set foot on Ulleungdo?

  • aaronm

    “No one outside of Japan and Korea is gonna notice nothing.”

    FWIW it made news here in Indonesia, with the disputed rock being referred to as “Takeshima”.

  • Pedro the Macanamaqna

    @60:

    Is it true that your wife cheats on you?

  • H.Schmidt

    aaronm Indonesia doesn’t give a damn about it. No-one actually cares about this issue other than Korea and Japan. Why do you think the US holds a neutral position about this topic? It’s because the Americans simply don’t care.

  • bumfromkorea

    http://media.daum.net/foreign/others/view.html?cateid=1046&newsid=20110801201109358&p=newsis

    Well, looks like they’re leaving after they were told they’d have to be placed in the same room with the illegal immigrants from China.

    And I think the world is a little too distracted with the Ramadan Massacre in Syria and the US debt crisis to give a rat’s ass.

  • YangachiBastardo

    FWIW it made news here in Indonesia, with the disputed rock being referred to as “Takeshima”.

    a) Indonesia is pro-Japan

    b) Indonesia is anti-Korea

    c) a+b

    d) The reporter went with the first name he found on Wiki (or maybe the wire came from Japan)

  • exit86

    Mr. Schmidt,

    Shall we also say that the early Americas were inhabited by “Koreans” as well, and we therefore owe all that has emerged from these lands to these
    people?

    (Hint: the term “Proto-Korean” is part of the problem here.)

    My friend, blood has no national boundaries.

    Peace be with you my blood brother.

  • aaronm

    There are some parallels here with Western countries. The UK recently moved to keep Gert Wilders out due to his (supposedly) inflammatory anti-Islamic views and Australia has also barred leading Holocaust deniers from its shores. While we can argue the various merits of such views vis-a-vis the Dokdo/Takeshima issue, Holocaust denial would probably rate more popular in Korea than claiming the shit-covered rocks were Ilbon’s.

  • gbevers

    The Korean wrote (#53):

    Boy, those “Korean lies” must be really potent, eh Gerry?

    And probably close to 100 percent of Koreans believe Korea’s outrageous lies about Dokdo or, at least, claim they do. If they did not believe it, they would be ostracized, which is just a little bit better than those in North Korea who do not believe the lie.

    You are a Korean-American lawyer, right? What would happen to you if you did not believe Korea’s historical claims to Dokdo?

    Dokdo is Korea’s “Big Lie,” which means that Korea’s reputation as a country hinges on it. That is why Koreans are so sentitive about Dokdo, and why they respond to the overwhelming evidence against Korea’s claim by yelling as loud as they can, “DOKDO IS OUR LAND! DOKDO IS OUR LAND! DOKDO IS OUR LAND!” Just as the proverb says, An empty cart makes the louder noise.

    Korea’s strategy for dealing with Dokdo is to hide the truth for as long as possible by using ostracism, intimidation, and fabrication, but the truth is slipping out, anyway. Someday Korea’s big lie will be exposed, and the integrity of Korea’s historians, politicians, and media will suffer a devastating blow.

  • aaronm

    Both Korea and Japan are popular here and both are pumping a lot of investment into the extractive and power sectors. However, if I were to make a choice as to which is currently more hip, I’d say Korea based purely on sales of bootleg copies of “Coffee Prince” and numbers of copycat boybands with ghey haircuts.

    “d) The reporter went with the first name he found on Wiki (or maybe the wire came from Japan)”

    This. Media is notoriously inept here.

  • aaronm

    Gerry,

    What ever happened to your mate Sack-o-cootchies (or whatever his name was) Matt, the guy you used to tag-team all the pro-Korea sites with and get all the netizens peeing their panties? Even if I didn’t believe a quarter of the stuff he wrote, the incendiary nature of it was worth the price of entry alone.

  • YangachiBastardo

    numbers of copycat boybands with ghey haircuts.

    Did you see some of the luk kreung idols from Thailand ? they make Bieber look like a Milwall hoolie circa 1981

  • commander

    beavers, you lost me when you used Japanprobe as a source to deliberately promote your agenda. Try to be a little more honest with yourself and with others. Being a lawyer may make that challenging, but at least don’t be so transparent. I know a few lawyers who actually succeeded in being somewhat honest, so you can aspire to that someday.

  • H.Schmidt

    gbevers, you do know that Korea doesn’t need to do anything, right? Japan can’t go to Dokdo. Why? Because it belongs to Korea and they can only go there with Korea’s permission. These Japanese lawmakers failed because they failed to go to Dokdo. If these Japanese lawmakers landed on Dokdo, then they would get all the praise. But the problem is that they didn’t.

  • aaronm

    “Did you see some of the luk kreung idols from Thailand ? they make Bieber look like a Milwall hoolie circa 1981.”

    In a country where even the trannies can kickbox, best not to find out.

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    TK@53, your cite (and comment) blends well with Yuna’s comments @22. Most Japanese are not aware of the Dokdo/Takeshima dispute. The fact that most Japanese stated that Dokdo/Takeshima was Korean territory, says little about your average Japanese view on Korea’s claims, but instead just stresses the point that most Japanese are just not aware of the dispute. (Also, the 9.7% cited is not about Dokdo/Takeshima specifically, but the Sea of Japan border, in general. – furthermore, again, you are citing to the ubber-conservative Sankei Shinbun, which is of course trying to rile up its readers into actions, as most young Japanese are not aware (gasp!) of all these wacky land disputes with their neighbors – something has got to be done!! And pronto!).

    If one were to raise the dispute, especially if the person who raised it were an ethnic Korean, many Japanese may feign awareness, or feign sympathy (as per Yuna’s comments) in order to not look foolish or to not create any bad feelings, but, in most cases, they just are not aware of it. This differs significantly from the Northern Territories dispute. Most Japanese are aware of that dispute, as the territories are both inhabited and were part of Japan prior to their defeat in WWII, and were not made part of Japan as a result of colonialism.

    The reason that the Japanese government raises the issue every year, like clock-work, is legalistic. Kind of like the international public law equivalent of adverse possession. They are merely reminding the international community of their claim. They are not doing it to rile up the Korean people, though this may be an outcome, an outcome, which, I have pointed out before, was FAR leass pronounced before President Roh (RIP) used the dispute to strengthen his base of support, Japan did not start to make its claims during the Roh administartion(though Shimane prefecture passed a local ordinance related to the claim – a local ordinance). The claim was made almost immediately after the end of WWII, as the ownership of the islets were intentionally removed from the Treaty of San Francisco. The foreign ministry, however, of course recognizes Korea’s sovereignty and control over the islands. And, this recognition is exactly why there will be no conflict over the territory. The Japanese had their chance to respond violently when ROK forces seized the islets and declared the Rhee line back in the early days of the ROK. The Japanese government wisely decided not to respond militarily then, and, barring some kind of CRAZINESS beyond all reason, they will not take any military action to claim it today, or in the future.

    WOW!! As I type Tokyo is getting hit by yet another earthquake… nice! Amazing how I’ve gotten used to these babies….

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    Oh, and btw, I further realize that despite all the international legal moves, this is essentially a political conflict, and Japan would create a great deal of good will with the Korean people were they to drop their claims, in order to smooth over bruised feelings and hurt national pride. Me thinks that ultimately they will drop their claims, in exchange for shared mineral rights, All one being negotiating dance between two sophisticated parties…

  • CactusMcHarris

    And just wait until that unobtanium is spontaneously produced when angst-ridden rock and birdshit meet – boy, the fur will be flying then, mister.

  • cm

    Korea has its own fair share of Dokdo crack jobs. Usually it’s the 50+ something ajoshi in his Korean flag head bands who would be the ones to go bonkers, as usual. It was the Japanese politician’s strategy to provoke them into another display of entertainment, and maybe even get them to attack the Japanese group with violence. Then use it to embarrass Korea in front of the world media. People who have no interest, no ideal of the issue, and who don’t give a rat’s ass will look at the ajoshis in their emotional outburst of violence on TV, and will think “Koreans… there they go again, what nutty people they are… “. And then what happens if some nutty ajoshi throw rocks at the Japanese politician and end up hurting one of them? Of course it’ll make the 6 oclock prime time news in Japan, and it will end up rallying the Japanese people around Takeshima, against Korea.

    No, the only right thing to do was to keep the two nut jobs who would have dragged the two countries down, apart.

  • CactusMcHarris

    #78,

    You mean in addition to choking chickens, slicing off their own digits and taking full-page ads out in leading newspapers?

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    You are a Korean-American lawyer, right? What would happen to you if you did not believe Korea’s historical claims to Dokdo?

    Nothing. I cannot even recall discussing my personal views on Dokdo with anyone in my personal life, and I cannot envision doing it in the future either.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    this is essentially a political conflict, and Japan would create a great deal of good will with the Korean people were they to drop their claims, in order to smooth over bruised feelings and hurt national pride.

    You and I are in agreement. In fact, to me the cost-benefit analysis seems so obvious that I really wonder why Japan isn’t doing it right away.

  • gbevers

    The Korean wrote (#80):

    Nothing. I cannot even recall discussing my personal views on Dokdo with anyone in my personal life, and I cannot envision doing it in the future either.

    I don’t blame you. It’s embarrassing, isn’t it?

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    TK@81 – Two reasons I can think of:

    (1) – Need concessions on the mineral rights front. Good will is all well and good, but mineral rights + good will is Greeeeaaaat!

    (2) – Same as every other country – fear that if they give in on one territorial dispute (with nothing in return) all their other territorial dispute arguments will be weakened. Say what you will of this argument, but Japan is merely following a strategy used by most the world over on this one.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    It’s embarrassing, isn’t it?

    No, it’s insignificant.

  • YangachiBastardo
  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    I agree that the only other country that would care about this news is China and given that China has their own territorial dispute with rocky islets with Japan, it won’t make a positive impression.

    I also think that Japanese politicians should be allowed to go to Ulleungdo to make their grievances heard. However, LMB probably isn’t allowing it because if he did his opposition would probably accuse him of being a closet Japanese loving Zainichi (as they have done in the past).

  • cm

    #85, they have enough problems as it is, with their Fukushima spewing radiation, yet these people want to start up another round of old Korean ajoshis finger choppings in Korea (as alluded by #79), over an island that most Japanese supposedly don’t care about. The big question is then, why aren’t they questioned by the Japanese people and their media for making an issue out of a non issue at such a critical time in Japanese history, and why aren’t they voted out by the Japanese people?

  • cm

    Wangkon, if the Japanese rightists had quietly slipped into Korea to air their grievances then there wouldn’t be this much stink. But LMB had no choice to ban them as soon as the Japanese politicians made a big media stink and played this publicity stunt.

  • tinyflowers

    #68

    Just as the proverb says, An empty cart makes the louder noise.

    Aren’t you the one always talking the loudest about Dokdo? To the point where it’s become a big joke around here? To the point where it got you fired from two jobs and kicked out of the country?

  • tinyflowers

    Gerry Bevers, is it true that you have never set foot on Ulleungdo?

    +1

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    CM@87 – Sorry, never realized that Japan existed in some kind of other dimension where politicians are actually always guaranteed to be reasonable and not hamming things up for attention. Also, didn’t realize that Japan was different from other democracies, in that there is only one way of thinking and everyone touts the party line.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    WOW!! As I type Tokyo is getting hit by yet another earthquake… nice! Amazing how I’ve gotten used to these babies….

    Sounds like California in the summer time… ;)

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    WK- I’m a NYer… its been a baptism of fire for me since day one! Honestly though, after the “big one” all these other tremors are like water off a duck’s back. A really, really scary duck, but still…

  • tinyflowers

    Japan looks silly on this one because most people are cynical when it comes to the motives of politicians. People are smart enough to see through the ploy. It’s classic Japanese passive-aggressive behavior and a rather clumsy attempt to redirect attention away from domestic troubles.

    What’s most interesting about recent developments regarding Dokdo is that it’s been the Japanese who have been initiating conflict. From the newest textbook controversy, to the government order not to fly on Korean Air, to this attempted visit. It’s quite the role reversal. And all this is happening within months of the biggest disaster to hit Japan since WWII. Coincidence?

    Korea can afford to sit back and let the Japanese make fools of themselves on this one. You can see how it drives people like Gerry Bevers crazy.

  • Charles Tilly

    Screw the guano rocks, this is ugly shit:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/highest-radiation-ever-detected-fukushima-10-sieverts-hour

    But this most certainly is not.

    But you could make a case either way for this.

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    TF@94 – I will take it a step further, “Korea can afford to sit back and” do what ever the heck it wants to. The islets are theirs. They control them. Case closed. When Japan asks to go to the ICJ, or some other dispute resolution body; no need to even respond. Sovereignty is Korea’s, Plain an simple. Any overtly loud objections to Japanese claims accomplishes nothing but make the outside world aware of said claims.

  • gbevers

    Japonymous write (#76):

    I further realize that despite all the international legal moves, this is essentially a political conflict, and Japan would create a great deal of good will with the Korean people were they to drop their claims, in order to smooth over bruised feelings and hurt national pride.

    If it were just a “political conflict,” then it could be more easily resolved, but Dokdo is more than just a political conflict. The problem with Dokdo is that Korea, as a nation, has lied about the history of the island. The only solution to that is for Korea to first recant her lies and then to negotiate with Japan on turning it into a neutral nature preserve or something.

    With her lies, Korea has dug herself into a hole that she cannot easily get out of. She has control of the islets, but what good is that, except as a tourist attraction for Korean nationalists. In the meantime, while Korea wastes resources manning the island and protecting it from squadrons of dive bombing seagulls, Japan goes on about its business while amassing more and more evidence exposing Korean lies.

    Now, as Japanese middle school children begin to study the history of the Takeshima, more and more Japanese will learn about the lies, which will hurt Korea’s long-term credibility.

    Also, even if Japan were to give up her claim to Takeshima (Dokdo), does anyone here really believe that would be the end Korea’s “bruised feelings”?

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    Gbevers@97 – Let me rephrase that: ” Between Korea and Japan, it is essentially a political conflict. For Gbevers it is much more.”

    Japanese school children will NOT wake up tomorrow knowing of “Koreas lies” for, amongst many, many other reasons:

    a) Not all text books will discuss the dispute.
    b) Most students all the world over do not read their text books.
    c) Japanese school teacher unions are very, very socialist. Most schools don’t even fly the Japanese flag, let alone teach this kind of stuff.

  • JK

    But that’s the whole thing, gbevers, Korea has NOT lied about Dokdo as Frogmouth has shown you many times over. You saying Korea lied does not mean that that is the case.

    Having already been proven wrong by native Koreans as well as people on this very blog about the correct usage of Korean words/phrases, you should have taken caution and thought long and hard before posting your silly comments on the Dokdo issue. If a person like yourself, who is not a native speaker of Korean, cannot admit that he was wrong in criticizing Koreans for how they use their own language, how can we take him seriously in his arguments about Dokdo that depend on translating old Korean maps and documents?

  • Charles Tilly

    C’mon JK, one more comment. You know you want to be the 100th one. Show them how truly pathetic you are.

  • JK

    100 it is! See you on this and any other Korea-related blogs in 2022, Charles Tilly. Maybe by then you’ll realize that your way of leaving comments doesn’t do anything but make you look like an *ss…but I doubt it.

    You idiot. :)

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Japonymous,

    Try riding a bike during an earthquake. You don’t feel the earthquake when you ride a bike. You see people walking lose their balance and power lines waving around, but you don’t feel anything. It’s a trip.

  • Charles Tilly

    BRAVO!!!!. Given the 6 minutes you allowed to elapse between my comment and yours, I clearly sensed there was some hesitation on your part. You know, that for a moment or two you really wanted to be non-pathetic. Whatever the case, thanks for keeping me entertained.

    God damn retard.

  • JK

    And you had to add one more snarky comment to this thread with an insult, still not realizing that it only makes you look like an *ss (in addition to a hypocrite since you yourself couldn’t let that commenting itch go). Well done, Charles Tilly!

    You idiot.

  • Charles Tilly

    …in addition to a hypocrite since you yourself couldn’t let that commenting itch go…

    Not possible. I’m not the one with the 12 years running online feud with Gerry. That’s you. Me mocking you about it doesn’t make it equivalent with the pathetic state that you are now in vis-a-vis Gerry over Dokdo and other inane issues.

  • JK

    Charles, don’t you really feel like an *ss now with your comments? Do I have that much control over you that you, the biggest critic of commenters on this blog and the number of comments they make, can’t even stop commenting to me on this thread?

    How are you coming across now to the readers on this blog? Like an idiot? Okay, if you don’t care, then keep it up.

    You idiot.

  • Charles Tilly

    [1]Charles, don’t you really feel like an *ss now with your comments? [2]Do I have that much control over you that you, the biggest critic of commenters on this blog and the number of comments they make, can’t even stop commenting to me on this thread?

    [3]How are you coming across now to the readers on this blog? [4]Like an idiot?

    Notice the numbering. I’ll answer your questions in that fashion to keep things brief:

    1) No.
    2) No.
    3) Don’t care.
    4) Perhaps. But it doesn’t worry me (see response #3 above).

    Have a nice day, retard.

  • YangachiBastardo

    Japonymous no ass-kissing meant but i really dig your blog and i think you’re comments are at the same time witty, insightful and balanced. It does help the fact i like both Korea and Japan.

    Sometimes though your contributions in threads like this give me some strange chills, it would be like watching Mother Theresa holding a seminar to an audience of child-molesters :)

  • http://pawikoreapics.blogspot.com/ pawikirogii 石鵝

    yangachi, i know you know i have a deep respect for you but you are wrong aboout the guy. he’s a korea basher though he’s real subtle about it and all.

  • JK

    Charles Tilly,

    Dude, without saying too much, I think you tend to forget what a small world we truly live in. You’d be amazed what common circles people run in.

    See in DC, I’m sure…and by that, I mean offline.

    You idiot.

  • gbevers

    I smell a hypocrite: “(Yonhap Interview) Japan lawmakers’ provocation endangers peace, Assembly’s Dokdo chief says

    If Japan wants to retaliate for denying Japanese lawmakers entry to Korea, I would suggest banning Korean Representative Kang Chang-il of the Democratic Party (DP), who is not only an advocate of a more aggressive diplomacy on Dokdo and one of two DP lawmakers who visited the disputed Kuril Islands in March, but also is a man who visited Japan “10 times last year alone.”

    Let Kang and his ilk feel the sting of being denied entry to Japan for his views on Dokdo.

  • JK

    As you yourself have said in other threads on this blog, gbevers, Japan’s territorial disputes with other countries have nothing to do with Dokdo (which is why you professed not to be interested in those non-Dokdo disputes).

    Furthermore, Korea is not making a wrongful claim on the Kuril Islands while Japan IS making a wrongful claim on Dokdo.

  • Q

    gerry bevers previously said:

    I just finished writing about your post over at the Marmot’s Hole, where they do not generally like to read comments about the Takeshima/Dokdo dispute.

    I will not debate it there and do not recommend that anyone here do either

    gerry ajossi keep “eating his own words.” 게리 아저씨가 식언(食言) 에 아주 능(能)합니다. Gerry ajossi is good at “eating his own words.”

    [English] 식언 食言 retracting[breaking] one´s promise : eating one´s words – 하다 eat one´s words : retract[break] one´s words

    [字解]
    食 : 먹을 식
    言 : 말씀 언

    [意義]
    말을 번복하거나 약속을 지키지 않고 거짓말을 일삼는다는 뜻.

    [解義]
    서경(書經)》의 탕서(湯書)에 나오는 이야기이다. 은나라 탕왕이 하나라 걸왕의 폭정을 보다 못해 군사를 일으켜 정벌하기로 했다. 그는 영지인 박 땅에서 백성들을 모아 놓고 말했다. “그대들은 나 한 사람을 도와 하늘의 벌을 이루도록 하라. 공을 세운 자에게는 큰 상을 내릴 것이니라. 나는 거짓말을 하지 않는다(朕不食言).” 자신이 한 말을 번복하지 않고 약속을 지킨다는 뜻으로 한 말이다.

    또 《춘추좌씨전》에도 나온다. 노나라 애공(哀公)이 월나라에서 돌아왔을 때 계강자와 맹무백이란 두 대신이 오오(吾梧)까지 마중 나와 축하연을 베풀었다. 애공은 이 신하들이 곽중을 내세워 자신을 자주 비방한 일을 알고 있었다. 맹무백이 곽중을 보고 살이 많이 쪘다고 하자 애공은 “그야 말을 많이 먹었으니(食言) 살이 찔 수밖에 없지 않겠소?” 하고 농담 반 진담 반으로 말했다. 이는 계강자와 맹무백이 곽중을 통해 자신을 비방하는 거짓말을 일삼을 것을 꼬집어 말한 것이다.

    그러므로 한번 입 밖에 낸 말을 다시 입 속에 넣는다는 말로 약속을 지키지 않고 자신이 한 말을 밥먹듯이 바꾼다는 것을 가리켜 말한다.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Japonymous no ass-kissing meant but i really dig your blog and i think you’re comments are at the same time witty, insightful and balanced. It does help the fact i like both Korea and Japan.

    Sometimes though your contributions in threads like this give me some strange chills, it would be like watching Mother Theresa holding a seminar to an audience of child-molesters :)

    Hehe, I have to agree. Nice blog, Japonymous – had quite a few chuckles reading through the posts.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    I doubt that the headlines necessarily equate sympathy for Japan.

    Or that anybody gives a crap. Most people reading won’t even know what Dokdo is, let alone care.

    You are a Korean-American lawyer, right? What would happen to you if you did not believe Korea’s historical claims to Dokdo?

    Why, don’t you know, Gerry? He’d be sent to Ieodo, Korea’s very own Gitmo, where it sends all its diaspora Dokdo traitors.

    Dokdo is Korea’s “Big Lie,” which means that Korea’s reputation as a country hinges on it.

    True dat. As I tell all my Canadian friends, sure, everybody likes your quasi-country now, but the truth behind its illegal occupation of Machias Seal Island and its brutal, Gaza-esque oppression of its native puffin population is exposed, the world will see Canada in a completely different light. Verily I say unto thee, Machias Seal Island is “the Big Lie” on which Canada’s reputation as a “country” (snort) hinges.

    Well, looks like they’re leaving after they were told they’d have to be placed in the same room with the illegal immigrants from China.

    That made my morning.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    He’d be sent to Ieodo, Korea’s very own Gitmo, where Korea sends all its diaspora Dokdo traitors.

    Hey, Ieodo is a whole lot more terrifying than Gitmo. At least Gitmo is above water. Ieodo is more than 4 meters under water most of the time.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Well, makes the waterboarding easier, I suppose.

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    YG@108 and HJ@114 – Grazie

    Pawii@109 – did you ever know that you’re my hero? But, I must say, I am increasingly starting to thing that TF is funnier than you. You gotta get your game up if you wanna survive in the Thunderdome!

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Japonymous — Where abouts New York are you from?

  • http://www.japonymous.com Japonymous

    RK- Queens. Jackson Heights, then Flushing. Family is based in Bayside now (LIRR Port Washington line – though, still Queens – also, interestingly, very Korean, Greek, and Italian nabe), so that’s my base every time I head back. You a bit east of their, right?

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    Yep. Suffolk County, south shore. East Islip, to be specific.

  • commander

    The three rightwing Japanese politicians being sent home is the best possible outcome to this embarrassingly transparent and amateur attempt by them to set flame to a powderkeg.

    It’s kind of sad that Japan, the once proud and mighty conquerors of Asia who went around raping, plundering, beheading and creating mayhem, are reduced to trying to bully its smaller neighbor into surrendering its claim to a pile of rocks within the Korean territorial borders. Oh wait, none of that happened, right, beavers? Better take a few more bong hits off Japanprobe and set the record straight for all of us. Bah ha ha.

  • BK

    I wonder what the Brazilians think about Yoshitaka Shindo, Tomomi Inada and Masahisa Sato:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Santos-players-hold-back-their-eyes-for-regretta?urn=sow-wp3778

  • Q

    frogmouth,

    What happen to the http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com ? I get this message.

    Forbidden You don’t have permission to access / on this server. Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

    Hope it’s not Jap’nese 농간(弄奸).

    농간(弄奸) a trick; an artifice; a wicked design; a plot; an evil scheme
    [예문]
    ¶ 농간에 빠지다 fall a victim to another´s scheme
    ¶ 농간을 부리다 revolve[devise] wicked designs; lay plot; play[use] tricks; machinate
    ¶ 아무래도 무슨 농간이 있는 것 같다 I suspect some tricks.

  • dogbertt

    East Islip, to be specific.

    You have my sympathy.

  • Ampontan

    [[Everybody in Korea thinks it’s a cheap ploy to divert the attention away from the failures of the nuclear disaster management from their own people.]]

    Which shows how little the Koreans know of the tenor of public discussion about the nuclear disaster (mis)management in Japan, or even the tenor of public discussion in Japan about Korea. In other words, zero.

    [[I don’t know the first thing about Japanese immigration law; my only information is what I know about the Korean immigration law.]]

    What do you know about common sense when it comes to foreigners going to a country to burn that country’s flag?

    I note with interest the Koreans later cited the MPs’ safety as the reason for turning them away. Incapable of managing their own citizens on a small island?

    Prof. Shimojo and his wife have a de facto second residence in Seoul. They travel back and forth all the time. Safely.

  • Ampontan

    [[Why Jap’n has so much trouble with neighbor countries?]]

    Odd spelling problem you have there, Q.

    Odd gaps in your knowledge of current events, too. None of China’s neighbor countries are too thrilled about China, which claims territory that is Korean to begin with, unlike Takeshima.

    The South Koreans get along so swimmingly with their neighbors to the north that their neighbor sinks their ships and shells their territory. And you know, if that place has a different government and a different capital, it’s a different country.

  • yuna

    The “tenor” I heard came directly from the Japanese friends I have who live in Japan, and the TV shows (see my comment above) where it clearly helps to dilute the blame or direct the attention away from its current situ when Japan starts feeling not so nice towards its neighbours. The Korean comments don’t say anything about these three stooges “succeeding” though, though the Sankei Shimbun reports tried valiantly (to paint a black picture)..

  • Kloud Red

    Gerry providing a link to a Japanprobe post to support his case on this issue is laughable. Japanprobe is apparently run by an American who is the epitome of a Japan apologist.

    True story; After reading that ridiculously biased post on Japanprobe and noticing the one sided nature of the cesspool they call their comments section (aka the Japanophile circle jerk), I decided to ask them if Japan would’ve allowed elected politicians from Korea, China, come to “examine” Japan’s “claims” on Tsushima and Senkaku. Of course, I asked this rhetorical question because IMO that should really settle it. Since James also intimated in his post that 2MB threatened the politicians by not being able to guarantee their safety and that Korean right wing extremists really overreacted and embarrassed Korea by protesting at the airport, again I asked if Japan would’ve reacted differently if the roles were reversed. I think by any measure, they were fair and valid points, but unsurprisingly I was immediately censored and blocked, LOL. No wonder the comment sections are so one sided. Quite pathetic, especially when you compare Marmots and Japanprobe. Marmots lets all viewpoints in the comments section be heard (i.e. Gerry) while covering stories of controversy in a balanced (for the most part) manner. Marmots also has no qualms about calling out Korea on its faults, which is something I respect even if I don’t agree all the time. Meanwhile, Japanprobe censors and blocks most, if not all opposing viewpoints, consistently features race baiting posts about Koreans and Chinese and reads like a Japanese government talking points memo.

    Gerry, linking to Japanprobe on a Korea themed blog to garner support for your personal crusade is like a neo-Nazi linking to Stormfront on a Jewish blog to convince Jews that Nazi’s aren’t so bad. The fact that you tried to sell it by calling it a “great article” is comedy gold. Keep em coming Gerry. Judging by your previous obsessive, borderline creepy commentary, I’m sure you won’t disappoint.

  • Q

    Ampotan wrote

    Odd spelling problem you have there, Q.

    Good for you good speller.

    Odd gaps in your knowledge of current events, too. None of China’s neighbor countries are too thrilled about China, which claims territory that is Korean to begin with, unlike Takeshima.

    For the territorial issues, Jap’an conflicts with Korea, China, and Russia. All far eastern countries have problems with Jap’an. Jap’an is confronted and blocked by all those countries in the western borders. Jap’an makes all their continental neighbor countries enemies. Yeah, China has problems too. So you are saying Jap’an imitates China, right? Come to think of it, what species is good at imitation?

    if that place has a different government and a different capital, it’s a different country.

    Keep that included in your Christmas wish list. I know Jap’an will never be pleased with reunification of Korea. Koreans have history of some period of divided nations before. Korea will be one someday, if you abhor over it or not. BTW, Jap’an does not have Christmas holiday! ㅋㅋ

  • Q

    Some funny comments of Jap’anese 2ch reactions about the three Jap’anese lawmakers’ eating 비빔밥 and shopping 김 at the airport. Here is Koran translation of Jap’anese comments.

    ID:hy0ejF9J0
    얘네 거기 뭐하러 간거야.

    ID:jaE4qI/l0
    비빔밥에는 죄가 없어 w

    ID:SQCUhFfL0
    공적 비용으로 관광 여행을 간거구만. 과연 자민당 의원.
    공사 구분을 못하는구나.

    ID:jWpNAAwA0
    정말 가식적인 우익들 웃겨 주는군
    김치 먹은 주둥이로 ”다케시마를 돌려 줘라”라고 말하는거냐-

    ID:mjTbUfT20
    비빔밥의 기원은 일본이라고 하고 왔으면 완벽했는데(′·ω·`)

    ID:skGBjddo0
    관광 여행 간거냐www
    자민당 너무 한가하구나

    ID:jWpNAAwA0
    김치를 손으로 먹고 그 손으로 키보드를 두드리는 가짜 우익들

    ID:cZq1MlZ3O
    자민당은 민주당보다 ㅄ같아.

    ID:Wslm28NT0
    의원들은 세금으로 여행도 할 수 있고 맛있는 것도 먹고, 그냥 부럽네요.

    ID:M22/iWMa0
    아-아.
    넷우익의 지지율 폭락이구나 w

    ID:mE9jREMK0
    선물에서 뿜었다

    ID:SMI/ANev0
    한국 여행을 만끽한 것 같군!

    ID:knG70CgVP
    잘 쳐먹었군···

    ID:tXsvxQ3W0
    넷우익들 어쩌냐 ww

  • frogmouth

    Hey Mr Q. Thanks for the heads up!!

    Apparently a huge spike in traffic caused the server to crash so I had to contact my provider to get things up and running.

    Thousands of hits in one day!! My new Japanese version is becoming more popular by the day.

    Keep up the good work Takeshima lobby boys you’re boosting my traffic bigtime.

    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/

  • Q

    Jap’an’s territorial conflicts reminds me of the history of Asia during the late 19C and the 20C. Yeah, Jap’an defeated China, Russia and Korea at that time. The structure of the 21C territorial conflict is amazingly the same with that of 100 years ago. Jap’anese right wingers seem dreaming of going back to that time and reviving the glory of Jap’an which was a abominable pain to other Asians and the people in the world. The final reward to Jap’an? Nuclear radiation. It’s all the same story. Jap’an’s plan of militarization through plutonium enrichment turned out to be a disaster. History repeats in a helical fashion, I guess. I’d like to quote the ye old Chinese phrase the gerry bevers ajossi previously proclaimed:

    子曰爲善者는 天報之以福하고爲不善者는天報之以禍니라
    자왈위선자는 천보지이복하고위불선자는천보지이화니라

    Thus saidth Gongja, those who doeth good will be rewarded with goodies by Heaven, whilst those who doeth evil will be rewarded with scums by Heaven.

    @Mr. frogmouth,

    Thanks for letting me know the recovery of the website. I found out the website was linked at cyworld too. I read comments that more and more Koreans appreciate and study this issue through the website after the three Jap’anese comedians’ farce at the Airport.

  • Wedge

    Ah, good to see this unproductive, pointless wankfest is continuing. And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…

  • harimau

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0QoCtTw7FM

    How inconvenient history! lol

  • Pingback: More Dokdo Stuff

  • cmm
  • Q

    Kazuo Hori, Japan’s Incorporation of Dokdo – Takeshima Into Its Territory in 1905: Japanese Professor, from Kyoto Kazuo Hori gives detailed historical information about Japan’s true motives for annexing Dokdo in 1905, a must read.

    In 1905, the Japanese government incorporated Takeshima/Tokdo into its territory through administrative measures. To justify the measures there are two views: the majority opinion represented by Kawakami argues the island had continuously been Japanese territory since early modern times, and the measure of 1905 was nothing but its reconfirmation; and the minority opinion hold that the island had been completely a terra nullius in 1905 and was subject to prior occupation.

    As to the former, this article has clarified that it is false, in view of the formal decision made by the Dajokan in 1877 that Takeshima/Tokdo was outside of the Japanese controlled territory. As for the latter, it is refuted by half of the facts cited in this article. In other words, Korea had been conscious of Takeshima/Tokdo as its territory since the 15th century and expressed its opposition immediately upon learning of the Japan’s measure of 1905. The dispute started at the time of the Japanese incorporation, not in 1952.

    Both the majority and minority opinions have on similar point that Japan’s incorporation of Takeshima/Tokdo in 1905 was totally unrelated to Japan’s aggression of Korea. However, the fishing at Takeshima/Tokdo which became the grounds for its incorporation cannot be separated from the Japanese advance into Uleungdo. Above all, the Koreans of the day considered the Japan’s incorporation of the island similar to the infringement of its sovereignty and aggression taking place in other various parts of Korea.

    A territorial problem should be examined individually and thoroughly from a historical viewpoint. In the case of Tokdo/Takeshima, the word “historical” should include the direct process leading to the incorporation of the island and also what kind of relationship Japan had with Korea in 1905.

    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/Kazuo-Hori-Dokdo.pdf

    Hey harimau, visit dokdo-takeshima.com There are lots of good stuffs you can read.

  • Q

    @frogmouth,

    The English version is not accessible. I can see the English front page of http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/ but the English articles in “Historical Categorical Menu” are not available. I can see the Korean and Japanese language pages.