From here:
Females comprise 63% of the nation’s teachers, but they have no power. They are continually looked down upon and even suffer from sexual harassment.
The following is an account of an incident that occurred 20 days ago during music time at an elementary school in Gyeongnam Province. Ms. A (age 25), who began teaching last year, told a child who was singing KPOP at the top of his lungs to be quiet. Hearing this the boy yelled back, “What did you say? You f***ing *****.” Ms. A told the boy to leave the classroom. He in turn looked at the other students and sarcastically said, “She told me to get out? She’s the one who should be leaving.” Ms. A then stopped class and left the room.
The issues that female teachers are facing in the classroom are much worse than their male counterparts. Female teachers in their 20s and 30s who have just started teaching are the victims of physical and verbal abuse and sexual harassment from students who ask them about their first sexual experiences and ask them out on dates.
Approximately 260,000 of Korea’s 412,000 teachers are female for a total of 63%. Among them 75% of elementary school, 66% of middle school and 46% of high school teachers are female. Among new teachers, the number of percentage of female teachers is even higher. 86% of those who passed the exam to be an elementary school teach in Seoul last year were female. Among Seoul’s 591 schools there are even 7 schools with no male teachers.
This was a hot issue on the society page today. As there were articles that talked about students harassing female teachers about their first sexual experience and period (here) as well as groping teachers and thinking it’s okay because the teacher never stopped them (here).
With teachers no longer able to discipline children and many parents taking an extremely hands off approach to the raising of children, the number of incidents like this will undoubtedly increase in the years to come. The prevalent climate of sexism is likely to not help matters much either.
That being said I have little sympathy for those who allow themselves to become victims–particularly to 11- and 12-year old children.
{ 101 comments… read them below or add one }
I currently work for SMOE and I’m not re-signing this year because of issues like this. Discipline in Korean classrooms has seriously decreased in the 5 years that I’ve been here. I’m the only English teacher who tries to instill rules in the class at all and I find that this is the first year where I don’t really connect with the students because I’m “the bad guy”(note, the most that I do is give a few warnings and time-outs). This is markedly different from when I first came to Korea. These days it’s impossible to have a class where I don’t have to stop 10 times because of talking and it’s become draining to the point where I’m just not feelin’ this job anymore.
What does being female have to do with any of this? It’s about being a pushover or not. I too have no sympathy for any ADULT who allows themselves to be bullied by A CHILD.
@sulperman: quite a lot. What I’ve found is that there is nothing that really passes for classroom management in this country other than physical discipline, and now that system was removed last year with virtually little warning by the government just last year.
So, 0 classroom management skills + being a petite newbie teacher + kids who can sometimes be WAY bigger than you= recipe for disaster.
There’s also the fact that women here are not taught how to be confrontational without being hysterical. It’s “flip out” or “do nothing”. What’s happening in these situations is that they’re being surrounded by male students at the end of class, and while other students are asking questions, a student gropes them from behind. It’s the same principle as “subway groping”.
Now again, Korean women don’t have very good role models for confrontation so it seems like a lot of these fresh-out-of-college ladies opt for the “do nothing” paradigm.
Now that teachers can’t smack their students around, how are students punished for acting out of line? When I was in school students not behaving were sent to the principles office. Is that done here?
Maybe they should institute drug/AIDS testing and background checks for prospective students.
I’m sure the corporal punishment proponents are all over this.
Also, keep in mind that this isn’t really too much of a problem in Seoul…yet; but it definitely is in areas like the one mentioned in the article where kids don’t have a ton of prospects post high school.
They need to meet my wife.
@ joel:
Spare us with the konglish nonsense, as this is the wrong forum to propogate such drivel.
For starters, a “hot issue” does not have the same meaning in standard English that Korean native speakers typically think it would mean.
What Korean/Konglish speakers mistakenly refer to as “hot issues” are not hot issues per se, but rather hot-button issues. , i.e., unless they’re talking about trading securities like this, which most Koreans typically wouldn’t be doing, as most Koreans aren’t familiar enough with securities to throw around such a term to begin with.
아, 예.
As Joel’s American, ‘hot topic’ might be a more appropriate expression. But, really, what’s the problem? Joel’s just translated an article for general consumption, and your dander’s up about his use of ‘hot issue’? For myself, I offer thanks to Joel for his efforts to provide material here for discussion..
Besides, how does one ‘[s]pare us with the Konglish nonsense’? If that’s what you want, then how about sparing us from poor grammar first?
The one I read this morning (same paper, same series) was this:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/06/27/2011062700125.html?Dep0=twitter
Sounds like the Chosun bitching about how we can’t beat the kiddies anymore. The “asshole parent” angle was interesting, however.
It’s also not even Konglish. It’s just the combination of an adjective and a noun in English that means exactly what I want it to mean. So what if it happens to coincide with some IPO related expression that most of the world wouldn’t generally use in their daily lives or if there is another expression that means exactly the same thing. It doesn’t make what I wrote incorrect.
Hot – a : of intense and immediate interest or d : currently popular or in demand
Issue – a point, matter, or dispute, the decision of which is of special or public importance: the political issues.
Jenny
You are a very, very strange fellow.
You’re fucking retarded. Hot issue is common English usage. 30 seconds brought up these:
Washington Post.
New York Times.
USA Today.
Miami Herald.
Boston Globe.
Could go on for days, but clearly not necessary. Remove stick from ass before criticizing.
The cute little female Korean teachers should hire those asshole thugs (yongyeok?) to take care of business for them.
On a serious note, there was a big Korean boy at the hogwan I worked for, and he was giving a hard time to a fellow foreign teacher. The teacher brought the boy to the teachers room and asked if I could talk to him for repeatedly calling her a pig (she wasn’t even fat, btw). I had a board marker in my hand and I cracked him on the head as hard as I could. The kid (16 years old) grabbed his head with both hands and and started crying. I got worried! So I told him that I was going to call his parents and tell them everything if he didn’t act better! Haha, my bluff worked.
pwnd
Last year, like every year, I had a few students wanting to become education majors as they were deciding their universities. As usual they were the quiet nerdy type who never acted up in class in three years of high school. I told them to make sure they knew what they were getting into because ‘You’re going to have to be a bitch at times’. I just don’t think they fully comprehend that a lot of 6-12-year-olds don’t see education the same way they do.
A couple years ago I was on a panel to interview prospective elementary teachers. Half-way through the pannelist beside me, who is an elementary teacher, said ‘They all think the children are going to be so nice. They’re not’!
In any case I’d be a big proponent of corporal punishment for a 12-year-old who groped his teacher.
Whilst most kid’s behaviour is just fine, children do need to know that there are consequences for rowdy or inappropriate behaviour. I’m not a fan of corporal punishment, but one of the reasons that some Korean kids often behave very badly is that there are no consequences and the naughty ones know they can behave like feral beasts and get away with it.
In the nine years I’ve been teaching here I’ve seen a huge increase in children getting up to uncivilised behaviour. They should at least introduce detention, suspension and other punishments for bad behaviour if teachers can’t give naughty kids a whack with a stick any more. It’s not fair on all the good kids who actually really that studying is a good idea, and it’s not fair on the teachers having to put up with the dreadful behaviour of a minority of students.
Bollocks to misbehaviour being encouraged due this BS ‘Human Rights’ nonsense, what about the right of the good students to a decent education and the rights of teachers to be treated with a little respect?
‘really’ = ‘realise’
My university students made a couple of interesting points about this (hot) issue.
Apparently, schools are unwilling to suspend or expel students, and detention clashes with student’s after school tutoring. I admit that exclusion has its own serious drawbacks (my students seemed shocked that anyone would consider denying kids access to education), but some of the major alternatives to corporal punishment, ones that would put more pressure on parents to take some responsibility, are not even being considered.
Also, the idea of actually making the class interesting and encouraging students to be active in the class (which I really think might help with some of the discipline problems) is seen as impractical because of the pressure to teach to the test. This may be an excuse not to challenge old fashioned teaching/learning roles/styles but may be a real inhibiting factor.
Note: I am sure that alot of the esl teachers on here try to make their lessons interesting, but am not so sure that this applies in other classes…
If what my students are saying is true (they are education majors, so should have some idea), the problem goes a bit beyond the perceived need for corporal punishment in the class room.
ihbb @ 16:
No, ihbb, you are the one who is a fucking retard. Every usage of “hot issue” you’ve cited was used in a headline. tsk, tsk, tsk. Unfortunately, you are too idiotic to be aware of that any manner of abbreviation, metaphor, pun, or non-standard usage is acceptable in headline writing — that’s Journalism 101. Duhh!
When not pressed for space, however, the full expression remains “hot-button issue” and is still the common usage expression found, as a rule, within <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/business/22union.html?scp=1&sq=Hot-button%20issue&st=cse" the body of an article.
ihbb @ 16:
No, ihbb, you are the one who is a fucking retard. Every usage of “hot issue” you’ve cited was used in a headline. tsk, tsk, tsk. Unfortunately, you are too idiotic to be aware of that any manner of abbreviation, metaphor, pun, or non-standard usage is acceptable in headline writing — that’s Journalism 101. Duhh!
When not pressed for space, however, the full expression remains “hot-button issue” and is still the common usage expression found, as a rule, within the body of an article.
There’s a shitload of anger and violence in Korea. Everybody wants to fight these days. I think it’s a good time to leave.
methinks 8675309 needs a hug.
The misuse of ‘hot potato’ to mean ‘hot (button) issue’ is a big problem with my students. I think it qualifies as konglish as it now means something in korean different to it’s original meaning.
big problem? maybe not.
I wonder how long till 8675309 gets unmasked as a second (third?) mizar5.
Never. There was only one mizar5.
been a (short) long time coming! more and more of this country’s kids are going to hell-in-a-handbasket… kids will swear and fight like crazy. young women aren’t the only ones wearing the shortest skirts/shorts… these kids are giving them a run for your money as they don’t even know why they’re wearing it besides it’s what’s known as sexy. materialism, status, and outer appearance reign supreme more than ever!
Hmm, then why is it I’ve never heard of the term until today, but hot issue is very familiar.
What exactly is a hot button btw?
Clit?
@21. Therein lies the problem. School time, where education should happen, is compromised by cram school (hagwon) stuff. A friend of mine who went to Cambridge in England took no extra classes except for Japanese as she wanted to study Japanese at university. She was fluent in English, German, Italian, French, Spanish – she had a bit of a knack for languages! She took 6 A levels and got an A in all of them. Some people are gifted academically and some people aren’t at all. Ideally bright kids shouldn’t have their future compromised by chavs.
Detention is a good idea, keeping the kid out of the hagwon and making them look like an idiot (violating their human rights no doubt!) isn’t a bad idea. I had only one detention ever at school, and I deserved it. It was embarrassing, and I never acted up like that in class ever again. Give the kids a choice, they can study (not sleep) or they can go around the neighbourhood and school cleaning up rubbish in the area. They don’t get to go home until the assigned task is completed.
I teach and when some kids are really out of order I’ll keep them in the classroom and have them clean, before that I’ll have them apologise to the good kids for wasting valuable class time. Whilst the other kids are having fun on their break I get the naughty ones to make sure there isn’t a scrap of paper on the floor, that all the books are perfectly lined up, that every table is in a line and scrubbed clean. If the classroom is perfect (it usually is, enough naughty kids to keep it that way!) I’ll have them stand in the corner and remain silent. I’ll also have them write a note in Korean to their home room teacher to explain why they couldn’t play during break time.
I had a couple of kids break into song the other day, and it was a rather rude little ditty. ‘Son of a bitch’ and ‘fucker’ were the main words to it (the kids were naughty 10 year old students). I took them to their home room teacher and asked them if they’d ‘like to their sing the song to her?’ They didn’t want to! My school is cool as they realise who the naughty kids are and put them into the class with the tough ajeoshi teacher or the really scary ajumma teacher, it mostly works in keeping things under control.
The parents having to pay for the after school tutoring, but if the kid can’t go because they’ve been a little shit is good deterrence for poor behaviour. Maybe it would even encourage parents to discipline their kids a bit more.
From the get-go: I haven’t been here long, and my Korean reading skill is not good (I am studying, though, and plan to take the beginner TOPIK in September). Therefore, for those who are fluent in Korean, I have a question: Do the Korean articles linked from this post make any mention of male teachers’ enabling and encouraging students’ behavior toward female teachers?
For the last 10 months, I’ve been teaching in Daegu at an all-boys private high school, the faculty of which is approximately 90% male and extremely socially conservative. In the English Department, which comprises 14 faculty members, two young, female contract teachers have by far the highest English-language aptitude. The other English teachers, all male, are extremely embarrassed about being shown up by two young women. This results in efforts by the male teachers, including the 부장, to create a hostile work environment that would force the women to quit. I’m not thinking conspiratorially; one of the male teachers told me this, like, “Check out our cool plan to have a dude crew next year!”
This school year, the females were assigned to teach only classes of learning-disabled boys with little to no English ability. Of course, the students were constantly saying disrespectful shit, some of it sexual, and this has resulted in a lot of in-class yelling on the part of the female teachers. When they yell at the students, the male English teachers leave their classes, go to the females’ classes, stick their heads in the door and say things to the effect of, “Wow, these women sure are loud, huh?” Then they go back to their own classes and chuckle about “these loud, crazy women that work here.” Now many students in school, some of whom have never even met these women, are complaining about the loud female teachers. Parents have been calling the school, “Why are the female teachers yelling all the time?”
On a related note, a few weeks ago, a first-year student burst into one of the women’s bathrooms when he was supposed to be in class. He would later say that he was just “curious” about what might be going on inside. A female Korean-language teacher was using the mirror above the bathroom sink and screamed when the student entered. The school’s Japanese-language teacher heard the commotion and immediately sought to defuse the situation. He assured the female teacher that the student meant no harm, and he began a campaign to involve other male teachers in dismissing the female teacher’s vocal concern about the student’s entry into a women’s bathroom. This ad hoc teachers coalition chose the PE teacher to go to the office in which the school has sequestered most of the female teachers and to deliver the male teachers’ opinion that the incident was actually the female teacher’s fault, because she didn’t lock the bathroom door. Other teachers, including the English 부장, have since contacted her to reiterate that opinion.
Is this practice widespread, or is it just my school where the male teachers engage in this behavior?
i used to work at a hagwon where i frequently had to politely decline requests from mothers that i beat the shit out of their sons if they misbehave. the mothers knew how rude/backtalking the kids are, because they receive it at home too. only the father will lay the smack down but father is often away or disinterested in dealing out proper discipline. i try to tell them it’s not something i can really do, but i’ve even had mothers present me with shoe-horn sticks as gifts, to the envy of other mothers who then said i am free to use it on their child also.
ending corporal punishment in schools is a horrible idea. it should not be used for violence by heat-of-the-moment teachers who can’t teach, but a dispassionate and rule-abiden series of smacks on the ass or hands is quite needed, especially as materialism and a sense of selfish entitlement grows alongside korea’s wealth.
Glad to hear your alternative strategies are working out. No way I’d want to be in the really scary ajjuma teachers class.
My students were strongly in favor of corporal punishment, interestingly enough. Not at uni, of course.
This documentary on the subject is alright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv_d6laoxzM&feature=fvsr
#14,
No, that’s not the approach to take. 8675309′s pedantry is misdirected because of the context in which you used the expression “hot issue”. This is a blog about Korean issues and most of its regular readers are or have been residents of South Korea. We are well aware that you were referring to a feature in a newspaper and of the meaning of the expression. Yes, you probably should have hyphenated the expression, but it’s unnecessary given the context in which you used it.
Stigmatizing the Korean-English dialect used amongst expatriates in South Korea on a blog read and written by members of that community is, well, pretty darned stupid.
8675309,
I’d be happy to recommend you some books on sociolinguistics to you if you want to take issue with the above comment.
…Yes, I did notice the mistake in that last sentence.
8675309, I’m assuming your Korean skills must be fantastic… maybe you should be translating articles instead of just criticizing the translators? I don’t know if Joel is Korean or English… and don’t care. I’m guessing you must be American because it’s usually you Yanks that get caught up in language rules when you so easily forget that US English at one time was considered a non-standard dialect due to its changes in spelling and grammar.
Chinglish expressions in English have become commonplace…
Sidenote. Your use of “i.e.” is incorrect. You should have used “e.g.”
bi mi@ 40
Wrong. My use of “i.e.,” is correct and I stand by it. (Reread my sentence below, and you’ll notice that I used that is correctly to further clarify or qualify the preceding clause — NOT to introduce an example, which is the meaning of e.g. To wit:
my comment #10:
bi mi @ 40:
You have some nerve you bloody lil’ wanker referring to American English as anything less than it is, or was, which is and always has been the global standard for standard English pronunciation and spelling.
And since you brought it up, you wanna talk about “non-standard dialects”? I just watched this movie over the weekend called “Gregory’s Girl”, and y’know what? Without the subtitles, ah doooont rilly bilivf daay wuh spikkkin inglisssh, wuhhr daay? or however those Glasegians speak (interesting quirk how they make every statement into a question). And don’t even get me started on Trainspotting….uggh!
ooops! I meant:
“Glasegians” = Glaswegians
Aaaaanyway… (oh shit, that was non-standard as well!)
Banning corporal punishment only makes sense when the general student body is receiving enough attention, discipline, and effort from their respective parents. As this generation of Korean parents are quite, quite horrible at this, I think corporal punishment should exist until the society has moved on from the idea that if you let your children do anything and get your children everything they want with no consequences, lessons, or anything, they won’t turn out to be spoiled little brats who won’t make anything out of themselves.
@8675309:
If what you say is indeed correct, explain the example sentences below:
See here.
And it would be appreciated if you could explain the above sentences in a non-retarded, non-blathering idiot fashion. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
America! The beacon of the free world and perfect English?
The gall of some Americans attempting to re-invent English is a little offensive to many. So eloquent!
I’d almost rather have Mr. Nesbitt running the free world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7VoFiagfs
He’s only slightly less comprehensible.
The part that I italicized–that’s just super moronic.
@45 dumb post, try again.
And there appears to be more. I did a quick Nexis search using the search terms “hot issue” and came up with these among others:
Bush’s ‘political guru’ reaps growing scrutiny; Karl Rove has helped shape president’s agenda, drawing reactions across the political spectrum
(The Herald-Sun (Durham, NC), August 12, 2001 Sunday)
CRIME POLITICALLY `THE HOT ISSUE‘ IN WASHINGTON
(The Oregonian (Portland, Oregon) December 7, 1993 Tuesday)
And I oh so wanted to believe you this time, Jenny. But, alas, your deep-into-the-bone moronitude came between us.
Addendum: Note that the term “hot issue” is not just confined to a particular headline put used in the articles themselves.
bumfromkorea wrote:
DING, DING, DING! I served a 5-year sentence in a Catholic elementary school and never saw a kid hit. Inappropriate behavior was met with nonviolent consequences like missing recess or staying after school and a phone call home to the parent, who usually followed up with more consequences, including a spanking. My peers and I were never hit at school, but almost all of us were spanked at home until we were old enough to laugh instead of cry and the spanking hurt our parents’ hands more than our bottoms.
Sonagi,
Even parents have lost the ability to discipline their children these days. Government is regulating that as well making it a criminal offense. Parents are being arrested for spanking their children in many states.
http://www.parenting.com/blogs/show-and-tell/lauren-parentingcom/mom-arrested-spanking
“You don’t spank children today,” Judge Jose Longoria said. “In the old days, maybe we got spanked, but there was a different quarrel. You don’t spank children. You understand?” To which Gonzales answered, “Yes, sir.”
I so want to believe C-silly, but alas, his first cites might as well have been from Al-Jazeera for all we know. (The Daily Middle East Reporter from Beirut, Lebanon — definitely the English-standard for journalism in the free world no less — and your other citation is from the National News Agency of Lebanon — sorry Charlie, but these do not hold up under scrutiny, unless you are actually a Hezbollah jihadist.)
And your subsequent cites from ostensible local rags are no more credible than your links to those Al-Qaeda/Hezbollah-funded websites, cuz you forgot to provide the links. Duhhh!
@8675309:
Christ you’re a f*cking dummy. One, it’s a Nexis search. There’s no point in linking to the f*cking articles! If you have a Nexis account, log your dumb ass in and type in the terms “hot issue” for you f*cking self and confirm it, dipsh*t. Or why don’t you Google it for yourself? Two, you want reputable English language papers that set the standard for English usage? Fine. If that’s how you want to play things, I guess I’ll just have to oblige you in making look even more stupid:
Another carrot dangles and everyone bites
(Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) March 12, 2004 Friday)
Dancers paid bare minimum
(Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) September 14, 2005 Wednesday)
(Source)
Watch, now you’ll say that it’s an Australian paper and-what do you know-that doesn’t mean sh*t. Right? WRONG imbecile.
Crime and Suspicion Remain Where Burge Once Held Sway
(The New York Times June 6, 2010 Sunday)
See link.
Really, those three should suffice. Now, I kindly ask on behalf of other MH commentators that you stop with this current bout of nonsense, take a break for a day (or longer), and come back later and start it up again then. Because today, you nothing left to retaliate with. You’re spent. Sack up and deal with it.
Try again:
Dancers paid bare minimum
(Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) September 14, 2005 Wednesday)
(Source)
Charles, I’m not sure if your links will cut it. I don’t know if you were around to see it, but 869 argued at length with a definition provided in the dictionary. (If you want to see the replay, just try calling him a gyopo.)
@thekorean:
You’re a lawyer. Thus, I think you’ll appreciate this quote from former US Supreme Court judge Learned Hand about the usage of dictionary definitions in legal reasoning that probably is applicable this current situation. According to the New York Times:
I don’t know, I think it’s something worth remembering before flipping out about the correct usage of this or that phrase/word.
Welll, well, if it isn’t our favorite draft-dodging coward tk. Oh, yeah, this is the guy who describes himself as a “six foot plus” Korean with “dashing looks”, whose wife looks like a K-pop star. Yeah right. (I found his picture, and he’s actually a 5’2″ 100 lb pimply faced Yuhaksaeng, still living on a Green Card after all these years, who cannot return to the Motherland until he’s past the age of 35, b/c he owes the ROK Army some of his blood, sweat and tears. (tk has no idea what it means to be an American, let alone a Korean American. He’s never served in the military, he doesn’t understand the meaning of patriotism, and he doesn’t know what it means to be an American, let alone a Korean. That’s why he keeps on insisting that he’s a “gyopo” while the rest of the Korean American population in the U.S. consider themselves as Americans. What a piece of shit.
One of my favorite judicial quotes.
I mutter it to myself whenever I read a Scalia decision that spends 10 pages about what “easement” meant in the dictionaries of England in the 17th century.
But the argument was not even at the level of debating the meaning of a technical term of art. (The “pedophilia” discussion earlier would be an example of that.) The discussion with 869 — if it could even be called that — was about 869 being a gyopo. As a person of Korean ethnicity living in America, I thought the answer was simple, and I pointed to the dictionary definition. But somehow 869 vehemently denies that he is a gyopo. I never understood why, or how, he does that.
Yay, one of 869′s patented stupidity! Sorry 869, I actually will be on a plane to the motherland in just two days bud. I have a loooong list of people to meet and restaurants to visit. Very excited.
FYI = tk is a pedophile! LOL!!!
That was uninspired, even by your standards. Try another one — preferably more about me having “dashing looks.”
Link, please, or it’s not true.
No link necessary, because I know it’s not true. I actually got a health checkup this weekend, so I know exactly how I measure up — 6′ 1″, 190 lbs. I could probably stand to lose about 10 lbs though. (At the best shape of my life, which was during law school, I was 175 lbs of lean muscle. Damn, I looked good then.)
… Didn’t the Korean get an interview with New York Times? If I remember correctly, there was a picture of him in the article.
Anyway, it’s 869′s words against the NYTimes, so unless you’re a hardcore Fox fan…
I know it’s not true, TK. I recall seeing the NYT photo of your head shielded with a cap and torso. Don’t know if you’re really 6’1″ and 190 lbs and don’t care. You’re obviously not 5’2″ and 100 lbs.
Learned Hand never sat on the Supreme Court; he was a long time member of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.
Right you are, Sperwer. His given first name was Billings, but went by his middle name Learned (which was his mother’s maiden name) because he thought “Billings” was too pretentious. One of the more interesting characters in American jurisprudence, and one of my favorite judges along with Cardozo, Jackson and Douglas.
@Sperwer:
Correct. I missed that.
I’m partial to Holmes, Cardozo, Brandeis and Jackson, as well as Hand; Douglas not so much.
tk said:
And there you have it, ladies and gents — the epitome of arrogance and the futility of reasoning with this kind of yuhaksaeng bullshit artist. On one hand, borrowing Sonagi’s logic, tk cannot prove that he looks the way he says he looks (6’1″, 190 lbs).
On the other hand, tk cannot prove that he isn’t 5’2″ and 100 lbs soaking wet — which contrary to Sonagi’s emotional reasoning — actually becomes more true the more he denies it.
(Only people like tk, who have an overarching reason to prove something — like his ability to spar in English — would emphasize idealized physical and professional attributes over the Internet, when no one really asked him, and while practically everyone else has not disclosed what they look like — as if anyone cares.)
However, tk not only cares, but I suspect he’s delusional, as the average height of adult men born and raised in Korea is only 5’3″ to begin with, and yuhaksaeng in their 20s and 30s tend to be prepubescent in stature due to having never done anything physically rigorous in their life — like serving in the military — it is more true than not that tk is probably between the range of 5’2″ – 5’8″ (not 6’1″ as he claims), and between the average range of 100 – 140 lbs, which makes for a very androgenous — if not feminine — physique at best. (Gay guys lust after people like tk.)
I actually had dinner w/tk when he was down in SoCal a year ago. Height (around 6 feet) is about right. Weight, between 170-190 by my estimation. Looks wise I don’t know since I was a dude and I don’t swing that way, but his wife is an attractive young lady, so he can’t be too bad looking to the opposite sex, I suppose.
The average height of Korean men aged 19 in 2006 is 5 foot 8 inches. What 867 has is the average height of Korean women (at 5-3).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
Looking at a photo a of a person depicted from the bottom of the ribcage up and estimating height and weight based on what is visible is a matter of perception that relies on applying knowledge of human body proportions and has nothing to do with emotional reasoning.
wk936, you gotta be careful when sizing up Koreans height wise, b/c unless you do a proportional measure of his inseam and torso length where extra inches in height are created in other races, the extra inches of height that put some Koreans over six feet typically are due to having a larger than average head/forehead, an elongated neck, a bouffant or naturally curly hairdo, or a combination of both. (One of my KA friends constantly bragged about being six feet, but it was literally all in his head — his extra inches did not come from his inseam or torso measurement. He just had a longer-than-average head, a tall forehead and Kim Jong-il-style naturally bouffant hair that added an additional two inches to his height. That said, if you gave tk a military style buzz cut and considered the length of other parts of his body (not including his big head), dollar to donuts tk is less than average height in the Korean scheme of things.
Nor you. So please, asking again, STFU.
Alright, lets forget about the actual content of the gibberish above and just look at what’s visually before use. Why this need to put in these long-ass parenthetical thoughts (if we’re generous for a moment)? Hint: If you think it’s important enough to include in the main body of your argument, no need for the parenthesis. If not, and they drag on like the way they do above, just take it out. Moron.
867,
When I applied for Naval Intelligence back in my college days, I scored very high in the spatial reasoning portion.
You’re giving KA Wangkon from LA tips on sizing up Koreans? ㅋㅋㅋ
I swear the arguments get dumber by the day around here.
Again with this!!! Jenny, you really are just one motherf*cking confused, sad, sad person. Have you thought about seeing into possible ADHD issues? If ADHD’s the issue, they have pills for that kind of stuff.
charles silly:
If and when I want your opinion, I will give it to you. Until then, you will STFU. Capiche?
wk936:
Don’t doubt it a bit. If you notice though, I’m not seriously asking you to make spatial calculations when sizing someone up physically. The underlying message is that there are some boys whose “big heads” are getting in the way to see themselves accurately.
Well done, gyopo-man! You actually made me laugh. I’ll give you 8 out of 10.
Wasn’t there a time someone had a problem with what I had for dinner? And now, an extended discussion about my looks. I gotta say, my blog might attract a lot of readers, but my greatest fans are here at Marmot’s Hole. I feel special.
8675309
Bwaaaahaahahahahaha!
Thanks, Jenny! You have now officially become the biggest joke on the Marmot’s Hole – yes, even bigger than pawikirogi.
Either that, or it was the most brilliant demonstration of Poe’s Law that I have ever seen.
Either way, I doubt any of us will ever take your statements seriously (again?) – either because they are intended as deliberate parody, or because they are so extreme that they parody themselves.
Thanks for the lolz.
By my estimation, the gyopo-man surpassed pawi long time ago. At least pawi is sincere and does not pretend to be more than he is.
Well, this comment thread went in an unexpected direction.
thekorean, when they have to use guesswork to insult you about you’re looks and cyberstalk everything you’ve written to try to find an unflattering pic to advance their argument you can be pretty sure it’s an argument you’ve soundly won – even though I’ve lost track of what the original argument was.
You never know where things will end up on the Marmot’s Hole.
Jenny sure does love grasping at straws. But, hey, every single person here is ridiculous in at least one way. Still, he sure loves them straws.
They? Only one commenter insulted TK’s appearance. Earlier in this thread or another recent thread, Hamel wondered if 867 was a reincarnation of Mizar. I don’t think they’re one and the same person, but rather, 867 has become possessed by Mizar’s spirit and is posting deliberately outrageous comments to provoke others into responding. Until Mizar’s spirit is exorcised from 867′s keyboard, I’ll have to scroll past any comments from him or addressed to him. My apologies, Joel, for helping derail this thread.
Sonagi:
correction – I meant to say/said that I wonder if 867 would be unmasked as *another* mizar5, not mizar 5 him/herself.
Other than that, I think your option is an equally likely one. Poe’s Law.
Unmasking is fine with me. I hope to hell he’s never exposed like Mizar was. If there’s a username 867-5309 or Tommy Tutone at Adultism.com, I pray nobody ever posts a link.
#42,
“You have some nerve you bloody lil’ wanker referring to American English as anything less than it is, or was, which is and always has been the global standard for standard English pronunciation and spelling. ”
Is and always has? Far from it (not only don’t you know much about linguistics, you are also ignorant about history). Fact is, English is a pluricentric language, which means that there are more than one standard forms of English, all of which are equally correct.
Entertaining morning.
Going back to the *cough* original topic–
Speaking of lack of consequences: I teach at a 국제과 where most of our very capable students aim to attend universities in America. The foreign faculty recently came up with a plagiasim/cheating policy to get the idea across that if you get caught cheating at an American university, you are in deep shit. Our policy said 1st offense– a zero on the assignment, 2nd–suspension, 3rd–expulsion. This was signed off on by our Korean 부장님. Well, we have a student who is currently on his 5th or 6th offense (all on major tests or essays). It’s been explained to us that we can’t expel a student, unless the parents agree to it (basically–we “recommend” that the student change schools, but if the parents want him to stay, then he stays).
So much for our policy. So much for consequences.
It’s all proportional to how frequently Jenny posts.
Cue Arghaeri and Keith’s anger!
————————————-
Seriously speaking, Jenny McGyopo is made my morning as I read post after post of his idiocy. He really outdid himself.
And as Mizar5′s biggest fan and probably only defender, I’ll say more than I said yesterday when he was compared to Jenny McGyopo:
No comparison between mizar5 and Jenny. Mizar could at least make decent arguments and based them on a decent knowledge of Korea and Korean culture (and fictious experiences of his feigned heritage). Jenny makes retarded statements based on spotty knowledge of Korea and Korean culture. He then tries to patch the holes in his knowledge with stupid and bigoted opinions. Jenny argues angrily forever making himself look increasingly more stupid. Mizar was more slippery and tripped others up, and seemed to be doing it all for his own fun and entertainment. Mizar was a fraud and an actor. Jenny actually believes the shit he says and is just a pain in everyone’s ass.
isHere’s a proposal: start “special ed” classes for children with behavioral problems, and hope the stigma associated with them is enough to make most kids straighten out. For those it won’t, well, obviously, they need a special ed class.
I’m not a fan of corporal punishment as it is most often practiced. I didn’t mind seeing the old system of corporal punishment die off, but I would have liked to have seen the system evolve rather than die. I don’t like c.p. systems that are ad hoc and call for the teacher closest and most frustrated to administer c.p. I’d much prefer c.p. to be meted out by a teacher uninvolved with the incident that brought it on. Children are not dogs, they don’t need to be “caught in the act” to associate bad behavior with punishment. When the punishment is removed from the situation, good behavior comes from a rational choice on behalf of the student, rather than simply fear.
Since everything else in this country seems to revolve around money as punishment for most offences, the solution is simple.
If a kid acts up, the school should charge the students’ parents a fine based on the severity of the offense. If parents had to pay for their child’s misbehavior, not matter how small the infraction, you could be sure it would end pretty quick, or they parents could no longer afford to send the child to school and they would be “suspended” or “expelled”
Since, ultimately the parents are responsible for raising their children to be responsible members of society, put the onus of discipline on them. If teachers are no longer capable of capital punishment, make the parents step to take the slack, like they should be doing in the first place.
If these kids want to act like dogs, they should be treated as such. When I trained my dog not to shit in my house, I didn’t tell him he was a bad dog and be done with that. I shoved his nose in it and beat the crap (figuratively speaking) out of him. The result? He doesn’t shit in my house any more, and if he does makes a mistake, he knows it. Now I just have to say “bad dog” and that’s enough. Same thing with barking.
It makes no sense to try to reason with people who are unreasonable. As Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Quite apart from any partisan opinions on the comparative merits, that would be quite remarkable since American English hasn’t been around long enough to have always been the global standard for English.
Why exactly, sounds fine to me. My objections are typically take the opposite view such as Jenny that their form is somehow superior and correct others perfectly acceptable English. For example I remember one moron proudly telling how he told his students off for using French ‘queue’ in stead of form a line. Quite how he explained the korean immigration departments use of foul french at Incheon airport passport control don’t know.
Happy thirty fifth birthday tomorrow
)
(only jesting TK
In this case the average height if men born in the 80′s would be more relevant and if you think that’s 5’3 you ain’t been to korea for a long time.
Ps pls also look up the word average!!
and he thinks Learned is less pretentious, particularly given his profession
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