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Osama bin Laden Dead: Reports

President Obama is scheduled to go on TV tonight (Miguk time) to give a special security-related address.

He’s not saying what yet, but according to numerous reports, it appears has been killed Osama bin Laden, and we (Miguk) have his body.

How and where he was killed, I guess we’ll find out soon enough. Sadly, I think it is very unlikely he was blown from a gun, the fate I, being a traditionalist, would personally have preferred for him.

UPDATE: Here’s BHO’s address:

According to the address, Bin Laden was wacked in a compound in the lovely town of Abbottabad, a city that, according to Wikipedia, is “well-known throughout Pakistan for its pleasant weather, high standard educational institutions and military establishments.” Interestingly enough, the town is named for British army officer and colonial administrator Major James Abbott, making it a somewhat odd choice of residence for the mastermind behind an act committed “in aggrieved response to imperial aggression.” But hey, I’m sure that like any good father, Bin Laden was there for the schools. The Guardian also reports that the district is home to Pakistan’s main military training institution:

Abbottabad is about a two hour drive north of Islamabad, in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province. It is not part of the tribal belt, where the CIA drone strike campaign has been concentrated, but is home to the Pakistan military’s main training institution, the Pakistan Military Academy at Kakul.

The fact that bin Laden was killed outside the tribal belt in Pakistan will raise questions about how the six-foot-four fugitive, one of the most famous faces in the world, managed to escape justice for so long.

Like I said, I guess we’ll be learning more soon enough.

UPDATE: We have more on the operation, including how they found them, where he was living (spoiler: it wasn’t a Saddam Hussein-esque rat hole) and how he died.

UPDATE: In the Guardian, Simon Tisdall says Pakistan has got some explaining to do:

Tellingly, the Pakistani government was not informed beforehand of the American special forces’ raid. The truth is, US officials would simply not have trusted their counterparts in Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan’s powerful security and spy agency, with such sensitive information.

Extremely pointed questions are now certain to be asked about whether the ISI or its various branches and minions, knew of the existence of the highly unusual, heavily fortified, expensively built compound in Abbottabad, 35 miles north of Islamabad – and of its high-value, low-profile tenant. If they did, why did they not investigate? If they did not, was it because they didn’t want to know?

The most damaging (and familiar) suspicion, which is certain to resurface in the coming days, is that elements within the ISI who have maintained links with terrorist groups such as the Haqqani network, did indeed know Bin Laden and his retinue were in Abbottabad, and by keeping silent, were effectively providing him with protection.

As somebody on the radio just pointed out, he was staying in a fortified compound near three Pakistani army regiments. I certainly don’t want to rush to judgment about our valiant allies in the Global War on Terror, but this doesn’t look very good for Pakistan.

Nice to see the celebrations in America. Granted, I don’t think Bin Laden’s death will change a whole lot (in fact, it may lead to a spate of retaliatory strikes), but I guess we should allow ourselves a moment of joy, at least before we get really, really pissed at Pakistan.

UPDATE: Great story about the man who inadvertently live-tweeted the raid:

It was about 1am local time or 12 hours ago, when world-weary Sohaib Athar tweeted under the handle @ReallyVirtual: “Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event),” and “Go away helicopter – before I take out my giant swatter.”

He then describes hearing a “huge windows shaking bang.” In discussions with other Twitter users he goes on to impart that the helicopter is gone and that a few others online are saying that one of the now multiple helicopters “was not Pakistani.”

Over the next few hours Athar muses if the owners of the helicopters are Taliban or drones, and expresses suspicion at reports that the apparent crash is connected to breaking news about Osama Bin Laden’s death. It turned out the helicopters belonged to U.S. forces. “Uh oh, now I’m the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it,” Athar tweeted.

About the author: Just the administrator of this humble blog.

  • http://www.chiamattt.com chiamattt

    I’m so confused. The Fox ticker says “Obama Bin Laden Dead”. Who do I believe?

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    I predict… very little change. We all know how much the capture and death of Saddam Hussein did to reduce resistance in Iraq. Al Qaeda is bigger than Bin Laden. It’s not like Adolf Hitler where the Nazis were primarily the creation of him and his henchmen. Radical Islam is bigger than Al Qauda. It can grow another head if the fertilizer for the movement isn’t eliminated.

    We at least did got some measure of justice for 9/11. Next is Ayman Al Zawahiri and Mohammed Omar. Keep the pressure on. Don’t let up.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    He may not have been “blown from a gun”, but according to reports he was killed “up close and personal” by US forces in a firefight.

    Obama deserves credit for authorizing action inside Pakistan (presumably without asking first “Mommy may I”); but the circumstances make it clear that “all Obama, all the time” bleating of Railway Charm in the open thread is utter donkey shit. The credit here is to the guys on the pointy end of the stick and all the other people who put in the time and effort over the years to get them a target.

  • gbevers

    Obama has finally done something right.

  • http://www.chiamattt.com chiamattt

    If Bush was president, no one would would be taking any of the credit away from him.

  • Railwaycharm

    You made my point Sperwer. It has F*#k-all to do with Obie!

  • Granfalloon

    Can we kill Donald Trump next?

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    Ok railway; I guess I missed the irony.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    Trump will self-destruct when his comb-over spontaneously combusts.

  • Railwaycharm

    Trump is a buffoon and he is making Barry look good.

  • http://www.bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    Trump is a buffoon but even Trump’s buffoonery doesn’t make Barry look good.

  • Railwaycharm

    He is giving energy to all the “enlightened” voters who put the numbskull into office. I see it everyday, no one will see the Obama product for what it is or; admit to making a monumental mistake for casting their vote in his direction.

  • a-letheia

    President Obama made the call for this to be a primary objective, and he, the CIA and the troops made it happen. Job well done.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    <President Obama Bush made the call for this to be a primary objective

    There, fixed it for you. Or were you one of the people who mocked Bush for issuing a dead or alive order?

  • http://nathanbauman.com/odysseus NathanB

    This is great news. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Mullah Baradar, and now Osama bin Laden, the symbol and figurehead of Al-Qaeda are gone. I’d like to see Mullah Omar and especially Ayman al-Zawahiri.

    This business about a “custom-built” “mansion” only 150kms north of the capital city of Pakistan is troubling and also reassuring: troubling, because many people, including many in Pakistan’s government, must have known of his presence. Reassuring, because someone may have betrayed him, and in any case Pakistan’s government allowed the US to operate there. Bin Laden’s influence seems to have been on the wane, and though his death ended with a bang rather than a whimper, there was at least no romance to it.

  • Fullslab

    As I remember hearing Korean students clapped over the death of thousands of Americans dying and Twin Towers collapsing on 9/11. Now, Americans chant over the death of the one Saudi mastermind of the attack.

  • http://nathanbauman.com/odysseus NathanB

    I should probably clarify that bin Laden was killed, whereas Mohammed and Baradar were captured. Either way, good.

  • http://nathanbauman.com/odysseus NathanB

    “I’d like to see Mullah Omar and especially Ayman al-Zawahiri.” –> Apologies for the accidental omission of the words “captured or killed next” at the end of that sentence.

  • Hamilton

    President Obama made the right call, congratulations Mr. President. The war is not over by a long shot but this is a victory.

    As noted by many already this has been a hunt in progress for nearly 10 years with thousands of CIA, FBI, DIA, US Military and other three letter agencies working their asses off.

    I am curious as to how much Pakistan actually cooperated or whether they even knew we were going in. They have been pretty adamant that US forces not work on their soil which is why we fly so many drone missions.

  • a-letheia

    Sperwet,

    Obama promised to get him, and he did it.

    Congratulations again to Obama, CIA and the special forces.

  • jinu4ever

    Mr Obama,
    well done but make sure that you clean up the mess as before you leave afghanistan.
    Destroying everything in your way of capturing Osama might do some justice for 9/11 victimes and families but doesn’t do the justice for innocent civilians sacrificed for your cause.

  • Hamilton

    #21 jinu4ever , Uhh… I don’t know how to break this to you but Afghanistan was a cesspool before we got involved and the Taliban liked it that way. Don’t worry, mud huts go back up pretty quick if they want it returned to its natural state.

    It looks like the operation was done with minimal level of destruction. Let’s face it, the President could have just had a couple of B2 bombers drop 100 or so 2000lb bombs on the place.

    He sent a team of professionals in and they did what needed to be done. Huzzah Mr. President!

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Trump is a buffoon but even Trump’s buffoonery doesn’t make Barry look good.

    He did at the White House Correspondents’ Association annual dinner. Good stuff.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    WASHINGTON: Barack Obama has taken his revenge after weeks of attacks from his possible Republican challenger Donald Trump, joking that the billionaire businessman could bring change to the White House, transforming it from a stately mansion into a tacky casino with a whirlpool in the garden.

    With Mr Trump among the guests, Mr Obama used the White House Correspondents’ Association annual dinner on Saturday to mock the reality TV star’s presidential ambitions.

    Mr Obama said Mr Trump had shown the acumen of a future president, from firing the actor Gary Busey on a recent episode of Mr Trump’s television program Celebrity Apprentice to spending so much time on conspiracy theories about Mr Obama’s birthplace.

    And after a week in which the President released his long-form Hawaii birth certificate, he said Mr Trump could now focus on the serious issues, such as whether the moon landing actually happened or “where are Biggie and Tupac?”

    “No one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than ‘the Donald’,” Mr Obama said, referring to Mr Trump’s claims the same day that he was responsible for solving the issue.

    Referring to Mr Trump’s decision to fire Busey instead of the rock singer Meat Loaf from his TV show earlier this month, Mr Obama quipped: “These are the types of decisions that would keep me up at night. Well handled, sir.”

    The birth certificate was clearly the key punchline for the evening, which typically offers the President a chance to show his humorous side and a town consumed by politics a chance to enjoy a light-hearted affair.

    Mr Obama’s presentation started with images of Americana from Mount Rushmore to Uncle Sam shown on the screen, alongside his birth certificate.

    Then he offered to show his birth video, which turned out to be a clip from the Disney film The Lion King showing the young cub Simba being anointed.

    “I want to make this clear to the Fox News table: that was a joke,” Mr Obama said. “That was not my real birth video. That was a children’s cartoon. Call Disney if you don’t believe me. They have the original long-form version.”

    Classic. And good job on killing the terrorist too.

  • Hamilton

    HJ, I saw that this morning and thought it was pretty good.

    Trump is a clown. I don’t always agree with the President but I trust him a lot more than Trump.

  • http://www.bcarr.com Brendon Carr

    He did at the White House Correspondents’ Association annual dinner. Good stuff.

    Methinks you are unfamiliar with the tradition of that dinner. It most assuredly did not make either the White House or the Correspondents “look good” to mercilessly kick Donald Trump in such a fashion. Normally, the President cracks jokes at his own expense. The 2011 dinner, and the conduct of its participants, made this President look mean-spirited and the press his unabashed fellators.

    Barack Obama really does like to stick it to people (Supreme Court justices, Paul Ryan, Donald Trump) when they’re pinned down and decorum does not permit them to defend themselves. In other words, he’s a bully. That’s not an endearing quality.

    And if you really paid attention, you’d note there was only one good joke sent the President’s way the whole night — that he would really have liked the 2008 Barack Obama. Contrast with the grace displayed at Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush’s dinners. (There is an archive of past dinners available at CSPAN.org.)Everybody but Barack seems to have had a real sense of humor about himself and a capacity for self-deprecation. Only The One, thin-skinned, petty and mean, lacks this kind of grace.

    As for the suckers of cock at the Correspondents’ Association, check out their webpage on the organization’s history and note the photo selections. You’re telling me it’s an accident they’ve juxtaposed a snap of a devious-looking George W. Bush scowling right up against an image of Bill Clinton in priestly vestments? Give me a break. (I’ll admit it’s amusing, but it sure ain’t subtle.)

    Our Republic is done no favors by a press corps that considers itself the Myrmidons of the Democratic Party.

  • Wedge

    Marmot’s last link is a good early take on how the op went down, although I’m sure more will come to light in due time. In any case, I’m glad the Pakis weren’t informed on this one. That was the right call by Commander in Chief Obama (credit where it’s due). But to think Obi had been there for upwards of six years. Holy hiding in plain sight, Batman.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Come on Brendon, with the sort of trash Trump has been spewing these last few weeks, is it really so upsetting when he gets the treatment in return? Trump got up the other week and made a speech laden with profanities, belittled the president, and now all of a sudden when the shoe’s on the other foot Obama is a bully, a meanie?

    I thought it was funny, so did 99% of the people at the dinner by the sounds of it.

  • YBT199

    Normally, the President cracks jokes at his own expense. The 2011 dinner, and the conduct of its participants, made this President look mean-spirited and the press his unabashed fellators.

    Unbelievable. Single-minded persistence while completely ignoring reality.

    It’s like Brendan is channelling the Black Knight from Monty Python’s “Holy Grail”.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    Perhaps if the GOP isn’t fond of being on the receiving end of so many jokes and merciless kicking, they should stop propping up candidates like Trump and Palin, who always manage to put a kick me sign on their own asses, and for whom the jokes just write themselves.

  • resident kyopo

    Can the freepers at least admit they were wrong about Obama faking his birth certificate? As in very, very wrong, and utterly worthy of contempt and ridicule for wasting their political capital on such a frivolous non-issue?

    Just one item out of an endless litany of reasons why I refuse to vote Republican, even though I do consider myself right of center on quite a few political issues.

  • resident kyopo

    Also, why is it so hard for people to admit that Sarah Palin is a bit lacking in the brains department? Has anybody watched her interview with Katie Couric? Yikes, if Americans are called “monolingual” because of their ignorance of foreign languages, then what do you call people who are unable to speak a single language fluently?

  • dww

    Very well done President Obama, Navy Seals, and intelligence dudes!

    You all made me a happy fella today!

  • Chicken Little

    It most assuredly did not make either the White House or the Correspondents “look good” to mercilessly kick Donald Trump in such a fashion.

    Mercilessly kick? You’re suggesting that Mr. Trump’s oh-so-delicate-sensibilities might have been offended by Obama teasing him about deciding to fire Gary Busey? Something tells me – call it a hunch – that Trump’s magnificent ego lived to fight another day.

    Contrast with the grace displayed at … George W. Bush’s dinners

    So by “grace” you mean the petulant-two-year-old-after-a-disappointing-Christmas expression GW wore during Colbert’s 2006 speech?

    I certainly have no problems with anyone disliking Obama’s speech at the Correspondents’ Dinner but let’s not pretend that it represents a low point on some moral/political metric. These events are circle jerks (as they say in the vernacular). It seems disingenuous to claim that one year’s circle jerk is somehow more or less uplifting than another because, at the end of the day, it’s still a circle jerk.

  • non korean

    “Just one item out of an endless litany of reasons why I refuse to vote Republican, even though I do consider myself right of center on quite a few political issues.”

    Just curious. Have the republican senate and congressional candidates in your district brought up this issue? Mine haven’t. Have any of the other probable republican candidates for president brought up this issue?

    I know the media loves to turn the cameras on and give air time to anyone who makes the republican’s look bad but I hope you really look into the positions of most republicans that will be on any kind of ballot in November. I hope you don’t listen to what the main stream media thinks republicans are for, because it is usually…surprise…misreported. I wonder why:)

  • gbnhj

    Donald Trump pinned down and unable to defend himself? Yeah, right – that’s the funniest one-liner yet.

  • doctoroh

    May Osama bin Laden be made to walk through 5,000,000,000,000 security checks uninteruppted before things even begin to get interesting in the hereafter designated for this odious creature.

  • iwshim

    Champagne before noon – I have to ask myself if it was too much?

    I think not!

    Such good news.

  • Wedge

    Jesus Christ, one of the top news stories of the century and you people are talking about Trump and Obama, Unreal.

  • R. Elgin

    As per “fullslab”

    . . . I remember hearing Korean students clapped over the death of thousands of Americans dying and Twin Towers collapsing on 9/11. Now, Americans chant over the death of the one Saudi mastermind of the attack.

    I have to absolutely agree with you there. Anyone prancing in the streets over someone’s death is low. Perhaps more Americans should have died during 9/11 so that they might have more reason to have an all night party instead of just dancing in the streets, waving a flag that has become a less inspiring symbol than before.

  • R. Elgin

    P.S. Per one survivor of that horrible attack in NYC:

    . . . In Westchester, Harry Waizer, a survivor, paused nearly a minute before he began to speak when reached by phone.
    “If this means there is one less death in the future, then I’m glad for that, but I just can’t find it in me to be glad one more person is dead, even if it is Osama Bin Laden.” (said Mr. Waizer, who was in an elevator riding to work in the north tower when the plane struck the building. He made it down the stairs, but suffered third-degree burns)

    I agree completely.

  • dokdoforever

    Reports are that Bin Laden was buried at sea. I guess they put it on a helicopter and dumped overboard. The US didn’t want his grave to become a place of pilgrimage, understandably. But now some Islamic scholars are saying that it was un-Islamic. Oh well,

  • dokdoforever

    I wonder if the US will have to provide pictures to prove it to skeptics.

  • John from Daejeon

    Really, buried at sea! Hard to prove something when there is no body for evidence.

    He could have been dead for years for all we “really” know, so this is an awesome feather in his cap for a President seeking a second term to combat his currently declining approval ratings and get people talking about something other than the high price of gasoline.

  • iwshim

    “Reports are that Bin Laden was buried at sea. I guess they put it on a helicopter and dumped overboard. The US didn’t want his grave to become a place of pilgrimage, ”

    I think quite to the contrary.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    NathanB,

    The Pakistanis can make it up to us by showing us where Al Zawahiri and Mohammed Omar are. I don’t think the Pakistanis help them a lot of conspire with them, but I certainly believe they know where they are.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    I think quite to the contrary.

    I looked at that for a couple of moments scratching my head.

    Then I got it.

    Quite funny.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler
  • non korean

    I read Obama knew of Osama’s whereabouts for a while. Decided to wait and go in with soldiers not bombs. I don’t know if that choice was incredibly foolish or ballsy….OK both. Imagine if he got away before the operation started.

  • CactusMcHarris

    I’m waiting for Bobo Babatsu’s multiple links to the conspiracy theories that Obama also delayed the construction of the monument to the 9/11 event.

    And I’m glad OBL is gone, too.

    #49,

    The correct choice there is ‘ballsy and smart’. You kill fewer people that way, and with the elite troops used, you generally kill only the ones you want to.

    Brendon et. al.,

    I don’t want to sound smug, but Our Man Barry got done with W didn’t. I want to ask ‘How do you like him now’ but I’m predisposed to already knowing your answer.

  • gbevers

    I am surprised at all the celebration over the death of one man. It looks more like an end-of-war celebration.

    I am very glad that Osama bin Laden is dead, but I do not feel like jumping up and down.

    There are three things that I am happy about:

    1) that the Navy Seals are as good as advertised,
    2) that our intelligence agencies seem to be working,
    3) and that Obama chose not to get UN approval.

  • CactusMcHarris

    #16 and 40,

    Agreed – we should have shown more respect for the dead of the war on terror. OBL’s one, and I’m not missing the man, mind you, but the ‘USA, USA’ chants…it reminded me of the victory parades after the first Gulf War, when folks were thinking we got rid of the ghosts of Vietnam…wow, so senseless and so short-sighted. Yes, it’s good he’s gone, but he’s got thousands of adherents, almost anyone of whom wants to see his / her 40 virgins.

    This shitstorm ain’t over by a long shot.

  • CactusMcHarris

    Gerry,

    Sorry, shipmate, but that should be SEALs. Were they the strike team?

  • gbevers

    You’re are right, Cactus. Sorry.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    I don’t know — generally, I don’t think it’s appropriate to celebrate the killing of another human being, even ones who need killing. So yeah, gathering in Times Square and chanting “USA, USA” is probably not a good thing, but given who got iced, I’m willing to give the chanters a pass. It’s not like they’re handing out sweets to celebrate murdering Jews or anything.

  • dokdoforever

    Judging from the celebrations, some people out there are acting as if El Qaeda was some kind of one man operation. Other odd commentary is the fear some are expressing that the death will cause El Qaeda to retaliate, as if there was some way in which El Qaeda could become even more radical and violent. I don’t think we need to worry about ‘radicalizing’ El Qaeda – they are already planning attacks against us. We should really do all we can, though, to provide democratic alternatives to the young people in the Middle East – to the Mubaraks, Ben Alis, Al Assads, Gaddafhis, etc, we’ve got to support it. That’s the way to kill El Qaeda. Getting some kind of long term agreement over Israel would also help immensely.

  • Charles Tilly

    Since this is a Korea related blog, I thought I’d provide some commentary from the Korean press.

    From this Hankyoreh editorial, there’s a call for the US to not use the death of Osama bin Laden to expand American power abroad but to do conduct a thorough re-examination of terror related polices since 9/11. One in particular seems to the American escalation of the war in Afghanistan. Since the main ostensible reason for America being in Afghanistan is gone, the Hankyoreh feels a withdrawal is in order. Of US and Korean troops that is:

    빈라덴 사살이 미국에는 테러와의 전쟁에서 거둔 최대의 성과이자 그 전쟁을 정당화해주는 사건일 수 있다. 하지만 미국이 그 성과에 우쭐해 자신의 힘을 더욱 확장하는 계기로 활용해선 안 된다. 오히려 이제까지의 대내외 정책과 테러와의 전쟁을 근본적으로 재검토하는 계기로 삼아야 한다. 특히 아프간 침공의 명분이 사라진 만큼 신속히 아프간에서 철군해야 할 것이다. 아울러 우리의 아프간 파병부대도 이른 시일 안에 철수하는 방안을 마련해야 한다.

    Link: http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/editorial/475988.html

    Also looking to the future, albeit bit differently, this Chosun Daily looks at recent developments through the lens of the US-ROK alliance. Specifically, with ROK personnel in Afghanistan, the Chosun reminds its readers that thought must be given to how the contours of the War on Terror will change and its effect on the ROK’s responsibility as the US’ ally:

    지금 알 카에다의 본거지였던 아프가니스탄의 차리카르 기지와 바그람 기지에선 우리 민간인 54명이 지방재건팀(PRT) 활동을 하고 있고 이들을 보호하기 위해 오쉬노 부대 군 병력 350여명과 경찰 40여명이 파견돼 있다. 우리가 한·미 군사동맹을 국가 안보의 핵심 축(軸)으로 삼고 있는 이상 한국 역시 빈 라덴 이후 테러와의 전쟁이 어떤 양상으로 변모하는가에 직접적 이해관계를 갖고 있다. 우리는 동맹국의 한 당사자로서 협력과 지원을 피할 수 없는 미국의 대(對)테러전의 다음 국면을 주의 깊게 지켜봐야 한다.

    Link: http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/05/02/2011050202332.html

    I’d love to read what others think are notable Korean commentary about Osama’s death.

    NOTE: Since this is a thread about Osama bin Laden and not about anything else, it would be greatly appreciated if a one Gerry Bevers DOES NOT FUCKING COMMENT on the real or imagined grammatical flaws in the two preceding editorials.

  • gbevers

    I do not fault people for gettting excited and jumping up and down at the death of Osama bin Laden because his death is a major victory in fight against al-Qaida. Hopefully, that is what they are celebrating.

    By the way, Charlie (#57), I give your two Korean articles my Bevers’s Grammar Seal of Approval.

  • Charles Tilly

    @dokdoforever:

    It’s al Qaeda NOT El Qaeda.

    The first is an evil, transnational terrorist organization. The second sounds like, and probably is, some nasty Mexican restaurant fare that’ll give you a horrible case of the runs.

  • gbevers

    Have other Muslin terrorists received the same special Islamic burial treatment that Osama bin-Laden received? If not, why did bin-Laden get special treatment? To make sure he goes to Heaven?

  • dokdoforever

    OK fine, although it’s written in Arabic anyway, so I don’t see what the big deal is. al Qaeda it is.

    As for jumping up and down – I’d be jumping up and down too if this meant the end of the War on Terror, the end of troops in Afghanistan, and no more hastles at the airport. But it doesn’t signify any of those things, unfortunately.

  • tinyflowers

    Who says he got some kind of special Islamic burial treatment? They probably just dumped him out of a helicopter.

  • dokdoforever

    The report I read said he was first taken to Afghanistan, identified, then flown to an aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea, washed , wrapped with white cloth, put in a weighted bag and sent over the side. Also, supposedly the Saudi’s wouldn’t take the body. From a practical pespective, it probably doesn’t do us much good in the Middle East to defile the body prior to burial. Cultural sensitivity goes a long way. Look what happened to the UN staff in Afghanistan thanks to the fool who burned the Koran in Florida last year.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    If only we had a President McCain:

    In July 2008, CNN’s Larry King interviewed then-presidential candidate John McCain. The host asked the Republican senator, “If you were president and knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan, you know where, would you have U.S. forces go in after him?”
    McCain said he would not.

    “Larry, I’m not going to go there and here’s why: because Pakistan is a sovereign nation.”

    The funny thing is, I didn’t believe McCain when he said that, and I would bet he didn’t even believe it himself. He was playing politics and saw the need to stake out the position known as NOT OBAMA (because Obama had said in a debate that he would use the US military in Pakistan without notifying their govt or getting approval), as Republicans are known to do on numerous issues, and it makes him look pretty fucking stupid today.

    Some of you will probably want to take note, and store that for future reference, because in your quest to paint every single thing that Obama does as librul anti-American commie — you often paint yourselves into a corner from which you can’t emerge looking anything but dumb.

    McCain wasn’t alone either. Plenty of other hacks thought it disturbing that Obama wouldn’t beg for a hall pass from Pakistan before killing OBL. These are the same people that would accuse him of dithering and kowtowing if he in fact asked Pakistan for permission.

    The reality these hacks would rather not face it that he was given a hypothetical, responded with his hypothetical policy, and then when faced with that exact hypothetical situation while in office, did exactly what he said he would do.

    This is what separates him from the professional blowhards tasked with yelling NO whenever he says yes, and YES whenever he says no.

    And Bin Laden is now swimming with the fishes because we have President Obama and not President Kristol/Rove/Limbaugh/Hannity.

    Have other Muslin terrorists received the same special Islamic burial treatment that Osama bin-Laden received? If not, why did bin-Laden get special treatment? To make sure he goes to Heaven?

    Yes, Gerry. Other Muslim terrorists have received the same special, preferential treatment of a bullet in the head. It’s almost like getting an affirmative action scholarship, with the only difference being that it blows your brains out the back of your head.

    Wipe the burnt toast crumbs from your lips and try a new angle.

  • tinyflowers

    I think all of that is strictly for public consumption, so as not to inflame the “Arab Street.” I’m not saying they defiled his body or anything, just pointing out how stupid it is to complain about OBL getting some kind of “special treatment.”

  • http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/ jefferyhodges

    Good thing Osama got a head shot since that’s the only way to put down a zombie — this guy had been a dead man walking for nearly ten years.

    Let Americans celebrate. There haven’t been many opportunities to do so.

    But keep in mind that this fight is far from over. There are many would-be Osamas lurking in their own Tora Boras of the mind. We’ll be hearing from them over the next years and decades . . .

    Jeffery Hodges

    * * *

  • Charles Tilly

    On the question of sending US operatives into sovereign countries to carry out covert actions, this is something that started under George W. Bush and has continued if not been bolstered under Barack Obama:

    Both President Bush and President Obama have reserved the right for US forces to operate lethally and unilaterally in any country across the globe in pursuit of alleged high value terrorists. The Obama administration’s expansion of US Special Operations activities globally has been authorized under a classified order dating back to the Bush administration. Originally signed in early 2004 by then–Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, it is known as the “AQN ExOrd,” or Al Qaeda Network Execute Order. The AQN ExOrd was intended to cut through bureaucratic and legal processes, allowing US special forces to move into denied areas or countries beyond the official battle zones of Iraq and Afghanistan. Gen. David Petraeus, who is poised to become director of the CIA, expanded and updated that order in late 2009. “JSOC has been more empowered more under this administration than any other in recent history,” a Special Ops source told The Nation. “No question.”

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/160332/jsoc-black-ops-force-took-down-bin-laden

  • http://cheotokento.wordpress.com/ Cheoto カンチョ

    One tweeter who was there at Abbottabad tweeted (whilst it was happening) that four helicoptors had gone in, but one had crashed.

    http://dok.do/H04y3i

    must have been the helicoptor the White house claimed had mechanical failure, although he tweeted that it had gone down under enemy ground fire.

  • gbevers

    Blueballs (#64),

    McCain said one thing publicly, but would have probably done another privately, just as Obama did.

    In his interview with Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper, Obama said the following:

    I will tell you that we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan.

  • gbnhj

    From the link above, about the guy in Pakistan who tweeted about the raid on bin Laden’s compound:

    “Not many twitter users in Abbottabad, these guys are more into facebook.”

    So there you have it: The key difference between the villagers living in the epicenter of al Queda, and the rest of humanity struggling like Charlie Sheen to make it in The Free World. While most folks in Abbottabad were busy clicking their ‘Like’ buttons and finding friends for each other, Sohaib Athar was out there tweeting like a winner.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    In his interview with Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper, Obama said the following:

    I will tell you that we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan.

    You didn’t add the next part of his answer, which clearly shows that the context was in discussing internal Pakistani security issues, and not OBL specifically:

    But I will tell you that we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan. Pakistan and its military are dealing with their security issues.

    Not only that, but using the phrase “we have no intention” was used for a very specific reason, which is that it is purposefully vague and provides an out.

    He was asked a specific question about OBL in Pakistan in 2008, and he answered very clearly that he would send US troops regardless of Pakistani cooperation, which he ultimately did.

    McCain was asked the same question, and said that he would not, because he would have to respect their sovereignty. How he would’ve ultimately acted, we’ll never know, thankfully.

    Pretty clear set of facts. If you can read.

  • gbnhj

    Sorry – here’s another try:
    From the link above, about the guy in Pakistan who tweeted about the raid on bin Laden’s compound:

    “Not many twitter users in Abbottabad, these guys are more into facebook.”

    So there you have it: The key difference between the villagers living in the epicenter of al Queda, and the rest of humanity struggling like Charlie Sheen to make it in The Free World. While most folks in Abbottabad were busy clicking their ‘Like’ buttons and finding friends for each other, Sohaib Athar was out there tweeting like a winner.

  • gbevers

    Blueballs wrote (#71):

    He was asked a specific question about OBL in Pakistan in 2008, and he answered very clearly that he would send US troops regardless of Pakistani cooperation, which he ultimately did.

    You forgot to give us the quote, Blueballs, of Obama “clearly” saying he would send US troops into Pakistan.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    You forgot to give us the quote, Blueballs, of Obama “clearly” saying he would send US troops into Pakistan.

    In a speech almost 18 months before he assumed the presidency, Barack Obama issued a blunt warning to President Pervez Musharaff of Pakistan: “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”

    Clear enough for you?

  • gbevers

    #74

    Com’on, Blueballs. I am not as dumb as Charlie says I am.

    Obama’s saying he would “act” is not the same as your claiming he “clearly” said that he would send US troops into Pakistan.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    Need some more?

    “If we have actionable intelligence on al Qaeda operatives, including [Osama] bin Laden, and President Musharraf cannot act, then we should,” Obama said. “That’s just common sense.”

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    Obama’s saying he would “act” is not the same as your claiming he “clearly” said that he would send US troops into Pakistan.

    Jesus, this is like debating Palin’s older, dumber brother.

    What do you think “act” means? Are you under the impression he’s talking about the dramatic arts?

    Did you not see the long list of idiots (both Democrat and Republican) in the link in #64, who took those exact words from Obama and criticized him because their interpretation was that he was reckless and would be bombing Pakistan?

    You spend hours upon hours criticizing Korean usage of vague language, and then you take a clear statement and pretend it’s vague so it fits your narrative?

    Sad.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    I wonder why the Telegraph can read and comprehend simple English, but poor Gerry can’t.

  • gbevers

    Blueballs,

    To”act” can mean many things, including UN sanctions, drones, and CIA operatives, but since Obama said, “I will tell you that we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan,” some people may be surprised, especially in Pakistan, that that is exactly what he did.

    By the way, you are a terrible dancer.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    Gerry, just so you know, I have no intention of declaring you dumber than a box of dicks.

    To”act” can mean many things, including UN sanctions, drones, and CIA operatives,

    I wonder why the Telegraph didn’t title their article “Obama would push for UN sanctions against terrorists in Pakistan” instead of “Obama would send US troops into Pakistan?”

    I wonder why Hilary, Biden, McCain, and dozens of other politicians and media types didn’t attack Obama in 07-08 based on his pledge to use UN sanctions, and instead attacked him for his pledge to militarily attack inside Pakistani borders?

    Everyone in the free world understood that “act” specifically meant US military action against OBL and terrorists in Pakistan, and yet Gerry thinks it might have meant UN sanctions. You know, because when he specifically used Musharaf’s lack of “action” as the comparison point, he probably meant to imply that if Musharaf didn’t invoke UN sanctions against his own people, and that Obama would.

    but since Obama said, “I will tell you that we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan,” some people may be surprised, especially in Pakistan, that that is exactly what he did.

    The only people surprised would be those that don’t understand what the word “intention” means, are completely unfamiliar with intentionally diplomatic language, and those that think that acting against terrorists means UN sanctions.

    Count me unsurprised that you fall into that camp.

    [I wonder how Beav would have reacted if one of those thuggish ruffians that were suspiciously milling around in the park a few weeks back would have approached him and said "Don't worry man, we have no intention of mugging you."

    Apparently he would have relaxed, went back to reading his book and been "surprised" when he got blindsided.]

  • Sonagi

    Is this Gerry who is criticizing Obama for taking military action against the leader of a dangerous terrorist organization in Pakistan the same fellow who was berating Obama for not taking military action against a dictator who supported terrorism in Libya? ???

  • gbevers

    Hey, Blue Balls, stop dancing around and just admit that I caught you with your pants.

    After your spent several paragraphs criticizing John McCain in #64 for saying that he would not send US troops in Pakistan, I gave you a quote where Obama said the same thing. Just swallow your pride and accept it.

    Besides, I am glad Obama sent in the SEAL team without first going to the UN or Pakistan for permission. He is starting to come around.

  • gbevers

    You need to follow the thread better, Sonagi (#81).

  • dokdoforever

    Bevers, I think blue balls has you on this one. You may interpret the word “act” that way, but in the debate, Obama had staked out the more aggressive approach to fighting Al Qaeda. That was Obama’s main message on security policy – Bush had diverted us from the real threat with Iraq, Obama was going to bring the focus back onto Afghanistan and Al Qaeda. Obama’s decision to send in the SEAL team is in keeping with that policy focus. Bush or McCain might have sent over a drone.

  • Wedge

    Taiwanese animation: Because if it hasn’t been animated by the Taiwanese, it didn’t happen.

    http://www.nma.tv/bin-laden-dead-video-animation-terrorist-leaders-final-moments/

  • dokdoforever

    Here’s a guy who didn’t shave his beard until OBL was caught.
    http://www.kval.com/news/local/121107609.html

  • http://www.bloglines.com/blog/LANDRos Landros

    Who would get more votes right at this second for President?

    Charlie Sheen

    or

    Donald Trump

  • http://jikding.wordpress.com/ 조엘

    I think the burial at sea thing was a (possibly insignificant attempt) to mitigate any martyr fallout that may occur from his death by honoring “Muslim tradition”.

    @ 47 The pilgrimage comment was funny.

    @87 Definitely Charlie Sheen. Because that’s how jaded we’ve all become.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    After your spent several paragraphs criticizing John McCain in #64 for saying that he would not send US troops in Pakistan, I gave you a quote where Obama said the same thing.

    I realize you’re sheltered there in Texas, Beav. But the phrase “we have no intention” is diplo/politico-speak for “this is something we want you to believe we won’t do, but we absolutely reserve the right to do it.”

    As in the difference between “NATO has ‘no intention’ of intervening in Libya” and “NATO will not intervene in Libya.” Surprise! NATO intervened in Libya!

    Weren’t you an English teacher Gerry? Does that job not require a basic understanding of the language?

    The fact that you think they said the “same thing” is a result of your ODS, and not the reality.

  • hamel

    I almost choked on my coffee today to find myself in agreement with IHBB, Gerry, you are hopelessly lost here.

  • inkevitch

    While for some reason the scenes of mobs celebrating in the US just doesn’t seem right. I guess it has to be considered against the back drop of the scenes that has been shown in muslim countries whenever tragedy has befallen the US or its allies.

  • inkevitch

    And for those who regard Obama cynically, apparently they had this intelligence six months ago. But instead of rushing the intelligence and security forces he allowed them their time to plan and rehearse the strike. Imagine how this would have bolstered his government if he had been able to make this announcement before the midterm elections?

    The queation remains was al-queda a cult of personality? are the other leaders able to access his finances and networks, how much of the operational linkages have been severed by removing him.

  • hamel

    Oh dear:
    Report of bin Laden’s death spurs questions from conspiracy theorists

    Example:

    Alex Jones, a radio personality out of Austin, Tex., who gives voice to the 9/11 Truth Movement, and runs the Web site Infowars.com, sent out a Web headline that screamed, “Red Alert. Inside Sources: Bin Laden Corpse Has Been on Ice for Nearly a Decade.”

    That didn’t take long. How long before Jashin Shiatsu is regaling with stories that the real OBL is wandering the streets of Dominica with Christopher Skase, Jimmy Hoffa and Vince Foster?

  • cmm

    Jashin-
    What are the conspiracy theorists saying about this all?

  • dokdoforever

    Here’s what everyone’s favorite Cindy Sheehan has to say:

    Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, who became a symbol of the opposition to the war, went on her Facebook page today to broadcast her theory.

    “I am sorry, but if you believe the newest death of OBL, you’re stupid,” Sheehan writes. “Just think to yourself — they paraded Saddam’s dead sons around to prove they were dead — why do you suppose they hastily buried this version of OBL at sea? This lying, murderous Empire can only exist with your brainwashed consent — just put your flags away and THINK!”

  • feld_dog

    TIME reports that among Obama’s key National Security advisors, it was a 50-50 split on special forces assault vs. bombs or waiting for more intelligence. Massively ballsy choice to go with the SEALs. Obama’s presidency could’ve gone down the tubes if this was a Carter-esque Iranian hostages rescue screw-up. He went all-in, and he just raked in a big-ass pile o’ chips.
    And the conspiracy nutters? Just sad.

  • jinu4ever

    Hi.. i don’t know what the celebrations are meant to signify. Are we meant to be joyous at the fact that it only took 10 years to get him? or the fact that it took this long and we finally got him. Do we know where this marks against the progress on stopping terrorism? Is 50% if the job done? 90%? 25%? Can anybody quantify it?

    I think the event marks a very sad day. Sad day because it should have been a day of reflection for 9/11 victims, for countless US soldiers and allies’ deaths and countless civilian deaths.

    The news doesn’t bring a hint of joy to me because;
    1. I don’t feel any safer (and conversely I don’t feel that I am in any more danger than before)
    2. We will continue to spend for the support of war
    3. But I don’t feel that we should cut and run, but continue to support the real and important agenda which is to eliminate terrorism and rebuild lives and infrastructure. This will be expensive for taxpayers.
    4. If American feels safer than I think they’re under a false sense of security, that could lead to a disaster and another cycle.
    5. This shouldn’t make Obama more credible but it is going to.
    6. He probably exhausted much of his effort on this one at the peril of more important things.
    7. In the process US again violated international laws and showed no regard for sovereignty.
    8. And the result is going to justify it all.

  • dokdoforever

    Not only was Obama busy monitoring the SEAL mission, but he was also almost simultaneously laying waste to Trump, delivering lines at the White House Press dinner. That’s some mental dexterity.

    jinu4ever – I agree that the real battle against terrorism involves much more than knocking off Bin Laden. On the other hand, OBL’s ability to camp out 10 minutes walk from Pakistan’s equivalent of West Point demonstrates the fragility of Pakistani sovereignty. OBL already took advantage of the inability of main decision makers in Pakistan to exercise full control over their intelligence and military. For the US to honor Pakistani sovereignty while its enemies don’t, puts the US in very vulnerable position.

  • non korean

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ikAZCh0ww4Y1tnn_VhV3j8H5GTEg?docId=64273c49498c4331bd1c50206122d760

    “Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.”

    “Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania”

    But but but I was told that harsh interrogations never lead to real intel.

    Bwahahahaha!

    The birthers will never believe reality and the no torture crowd will never believe reality.

  • jinu4ever

    @dokdoforever I accept your point, but let it be known that 2 wrongs don’t make it right.

  • jinu4ever

    @non korean – the effectiveness of torture for interrogation and intelligence is only as good as the next innocent person tortured. So unless you don’t mind being one of those people take your garbage somewhere else.

  • Wedge

    There will be conspiracy theories for as long as people breathe. For instance, Hitler died on May 1 and Osama died on May 1. Coincidence? I think not. Osama bin Laden was really spirited away to join the mustachioed one in Argentina, along with Lee Harvey Oswald, Mark David Chapman, John Wilkes Booth and other assassans with three names. From an ultra-scecret redoubt on the pamapas this collection of arch-villians has been pulling the puppet strings on world leaders since King Tut. Luckily, Superman has figured this out and he gave up his American citizenship so he could fight this cabal unfettered.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    Just for my pal Beavs, I’ll go ahead and beat a dead horse:

    Obama – Oct 7, 2008: “What I have said is we’re going to encourage democracy in Pakistan, expand our non-military aid to Pakistan so that they have more of a stake in working with us, but insisting that they go after these militants. And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act, and we will take them out.

    “We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al-Qaida . That has to be our biggest national security priority.”

    For the record, Gerry thinks that’s pretty ambiguous, and that “we will take them out…we will kill bin Laden” just might mean UN sanctions or perhaps a pedicure.

    If you want some video evidence Ger, go to 2:18 in this video.

  • gbnhj

    The effectiveness of torture is correctly gauged by those doing the torturing, and is really dependent upon the result desired. For example, ‘scaring the shit out of someone’ could be a goal of a torturer, and I’d bet it’s one that’s almost always met. On the other hand ‘getting credible intel from someone’ is a more problematic goal, as the physically and mentally anguished tend to say whatever they think will stop the pain. The information they provide may be ‘real’, or it could just be a load of crap.

  • milton

    Yesterday was a great day for humanity, freedom, and peace. Death is usually not something to be celebrated, but in the case of Bin Laden, we should all rejoice that such a malevolent, heinous being has been destroyed. As in all such cases, it’s a shame that Bin Laden was unable to experience the torture and devastation that he inflicted up his countless victims and their families.

    While witnessing fellow Americans take to the streets yesterday in jubilation, I couldn’t help but be filled a sense of pride and patriotism. The death of Bin Laden is neither the end of the battle against extremism, nor much more than a symbolic victory, but it’s an important psychological victory nonetheless and a blow to our enemies. Here’s to hoping the rest of the al-Qaeda and the Taliban are pursed and eliminated with a similar vigor and brought to justice.

    A job well done to Obama, Bush, and America’s military and intelligence communities.

  • Railwaycharm

    Spin, disinformation and slick words from a armchair quarterback. Anytime MSNBC is offered up as empirical truth for anything, you better check your six. Barry’s charges used information that he deplored, water-boarding, in gitmo (which he wanted to shut down) to find the guy that would lead to trail to Osama. Makes for good theater, Barry is still unfit for the office.

  • αβγδε

    For some comedy relief on this topic, go here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqi4xjQvki4

    ^ Made sometime during Bush’s presidency, Mike Marino discusses the hunt for Osama bin Laden if the President of the United States were Italian-American.

  • Railwaycharm

    the trail

  • Jashin Densetsu

    Jashin-
    What are the conspiracy theorists saying about this all?

    sup bro. i only really follow 9/11 truth. didn’t follow the birther thing and haven’t been following the bin laden stuff. i think most of the conspiracy theorist types regarding bin laden are saying that there’s been stories, rumors, news reports, etc for years saying that bin laden’s dead, so why believe it just happened just because the gov’t says so. or something along those lines.

  • cmm

    …it’s a shame that Bin Laden was unable to experience the torture and devastation that he inflicted up his countless victims and their families.

    I’d like to think that he did. Few will ever know what really happened to the guy, and a quick, nearly painless death by multiple headshots, as the official story goes is probably the best official story to release, true or not. I hope the SEALs shot out his knees first and then went medieval on him.

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    Those freaky Taiwanese animators got an “interesting” take on this:

    http://www.monster-island.net/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-snuff-anime.html

    Got it from Kushibo’s blog. Good grief… 1:09 has got to be offensive to some conservative Muslims…

  • Wedge

    #111: My link at #85 has a larger frame, and is therefore better. Cheers.

  • cmm
  • Yu Bum Suk

    “A job well done to Obama, Bush, and America’s military and intelligence communities.”

    You’ve got to be shitting me. Ten years and he was found living comfortably just outside the capital of a country Bush called ‘our strong alley’? If that’s a job well done I’d hate to see your idea of a job done poorly.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    I’ll see your image, cmm, and raise you one.

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    That made my day blueballs.

  • YBT199

    Why do we get photographs of a bloodied bedroom, but none of bin Laden’s corpse?

    I’m sure that he must have been killed, but why no photos? Islamic sensitivities?

  • dww

    Those 9/11 conspiracy theories kind of remind me of the OJ Simpson trial. You’ve got this massive ton of evidence proving that the guy killed his wife, but then someone breaks out the bloody glove if-it-doesn’t-fit-you-must-acquit argument and that alone persuades people that it was an inside job.

  • cmm

    Those pics bluebells and I posted are entitled:

    “Obama bin Leadin 1 & 2″

  • Sonagi

    @cmm and IHBB:

    Thank you! Where do I find more like those?

  • http://vmphotography.com.au hoju_saram

    Thank you! Where do I find more like those?

    Here’s another funny.

  • Arghaeri

    For the record, Gerry thinks that’s pretty ambiguous, and that “we will take them out…we will kill bin Laden”

    IHBB I think Gerry’s got you there, Obama’s answer is to take OBM out for dinner and anice chat followed by a killer time drinking poktangju.

  • non korean

    Lofty ideals you have. Yea I admit it is awful when someone gets tortured and they were innocent.

    I also hate it when people are found guilty by a jury of their peers and they get sent to jail for 10/20/30 years ,sometimes for life. In prison they get beat up, sodomized, and in some situations commit suicide. The criminal justice system is not a perfect system but better than the alternative. I guess you don’t believe in the criminal justice system since innocent people do go to jail and have terrible things happen to them that are far worse than waterboarding.

    It would be difficult indeed to live in such an idealized world.

  • gbevers

    Blue Balls wrote:

    For the record, Gerry thinks that’s pretty ambiguous, and that “we will take them out…we will kill bin Laden” just might mean UN sanctions or perhaps a pedicure.

    For the record, Blue Balls said the following in #71:

    He was asked a specific question about OBL in Pakistan in 2008, and he answered very clearly that he would send US troops regardless of Pakistani cooperation, which he ultimately did.

    Obama did NOT “very clearly” say he would “send US troops into Pakistan” because if he had said that, he would have risked losing what little cooperation Pakistan has been giving us. In fact, in the interview with the Pakistani reporter, Obama “very clearly” said he had no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan.

  • hamel

    Gerry, it seems to be that you “very clearly” lack an understanding of diplomatic language.

  • Hamilton

    Semantics mean little when time passes and circumstances change.

    What matters is that the President made a difficult but correct call and took out Osama Bin Laden.

    Gerry, you may have scored a point or two on semantics but you need to let this one go. The Obamaniator just slammed dunked it for 100. The match goes to the President.

  • gbevers

    Hamel,

    So Obama’s language was diplomatic, but not McCain’s?

  • gbevers

    Hamilton,

    I have no problem, at all, with what Obama did. I am glad he sent in the Navy SEALs without first going to the UN. I just did not like all the crap Blue Balls was slinging.

  • Hamilton

    #128 I figured out that part. Have a nice night.

  • hamel

    So Obama’s language was diplomatic, but not McCain’s?

    No idea. I am not choosing sides in a Republican versus Democrat debate.
    I agree with you that McCain in all likelihood would have done the same thing this week as Obama (or similar) with or without Pakistani government approval/cooperation. I was not talking about who was speaking more diplomatically than whom. I was talking about “diplomatic language” as in “diplomatic code/jargon/cant.”

    It is clear to me that “we have no intention of X” does not mean the same as “we will never do X.”

    I understand your frustration with IHBB. I told him just in the last week that he had trouble communicating with people. But I don’t think you are correct here that Obama was saying that he would not take military action. He simply said it was not the plan at the time, which was probably true. But the option was definitely “on the table” so to speak.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert Koehler

    What matters is that the President made a difficult but correct call and took out Osama Bin Laden.

    That’s pretty much sums it up, I think. I’m not an Obama fan, obviously, but he made a very gutsy call that could have easily gone very, very sidewards. Takes a brass set.

  • Charles Tilly

    Robert Koehler say that

    I’m not an Obama fan,…

    Fair enough. But would you change your mind should the One start attending official state events in a 한복? Or would that just piss you off that he’s copying you sartorially?

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    @cmm and IHBB:

    Thank you! Where do I find more like those?

    Sonagi, I saw a few of the pics in this thread on digg.

    Here’s another gem.

  • http://www.wm3.org/Updates iheartblueballs

    So Obama’s language was diplomatic, but not McCain’s?

    Gerry, you’re either playing dumb, or your knowledge of the language of politicians and diplomats is non-existant if you can’t see the difference between saying “We will not do X” and “We have no intention of doing X.”

    The first is an unequivocal, definitive, negative response with no wiggle room. The second uses a distinct phrase (VERY popular with politicians and diplomats) which specifically avoids a definitive and instead relies on communicating the current intention, which can very easily be walked back at a later time to reflect a new circumstance and new intention.

    McCain not only ruled out incursions into Pakistan without their approval, but he cited his justification and principle behind that policy: Pakistan is a sovereign country and their sovereignty should not be violated.

    Obama said on numerous occasions, many of which I’ve linked to, that he would take military action against terrorist targets in Pakistan without the knowledge or approval of Pakistan. In an interview with a Pakistani paper, after he had already staked out the prior position, he then used very specific, non-commital language in trying to remain diplomatic and non-aggressive toward Pakistan (even more important because it was a Pakistani paper and Pakistan is a supposed “ally”) while still retaining the option of military action if necessary.

    Feel free to keep pissing in the wind, but I’m done trying to explain this to you. I give you 35 pictures of a guy sucking penises, and you point to the one where he’s got his arm around a girl and then yell “Look, he’s not gay!”

  • cmm

    NMA.tv seems to have pulled the animation Wedge and WK linked to above. Are the terrorists still winning? I liked that video…

  • gbevers

    Is this Osama bin-Laden’s dead body? I don’t know.

    HERE

  • cmm

    no gb, that image was debunked right away. it’s a horrible photochop job of an AP stock photo.

  • CactusMcHarris

    #102,

    That was wonderful!