First we get yellow dust from China and Mongolia, and now we’re getting radioactive rain from Japan:
Concerns are growing over possible “radioactive rain,” as winds containing radioactive materials are forecast to blow toward the Korean Peninsula from Japan and rain is expected Thursday.
Weather officials are saying the radiation level will be too low to affect humans. But the announcement is not enough to relieve public concern completely.
The Korea Meteorological Administration (KMA) forecast the whole nation is likely to get 20-60 millimeters of rainfall Thursday, with southern parts of the country receiving rain until Friday. After the rain, yellow dust may drift over, it said.
It also expected winds containing radioactive substances are likely to blow toward the peninsula around Thursday.
Just lovely.
UPDATE: So… now it looks like we won’t be getting radioactive rain.
{ 94 comments… read them below or add one }
Let the hysteria begin.
I expect candlelight protests as part of the fallout over this issue . . .
Jeffery Hodges
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The fallout is going to blow against the jet stream?
Bring it on. People who lived downwind of Three Mile Island have a lower rate of cancer.
I put radioctivity — and in particularly, radioactivity from Japan — at the top of my list of topics too important for South Korea’s famously excitable and inaccurate media to handle.
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/04/06/forecast-of-radioactive-rain-fades-in-korea/
Who knows? Future radiation-caused mutations may work in their favour.
I hoping the extra fingers I’ll grow from this Japan visit will speed up my typing and put real sparkle in my arpeggio work.
A cleverly crafted bill might turn this into a win-win scenario. At the 24 month mark on unemployment benefits (6 months) welfare recipients could be required to “lend a hand” in order to continue pulling in benefits. I suspect this would not only give those in need a little relief but also cut down on those pushing the 99 weeks of benefits.
Wrong window, oops.
people are scared of radiation but then, koreans don’t have a right to be human, do they? nooooope, they gotta be like a guy like slim who lives his
life like mr spock. he don’t ever react to emotion. nooooooooope, if only we could be just like him and so many of you former trailer trash now english teachers, the world would be so much of a better place! oh, but we could dream.
btw, it’s just like i thought; japan is just trouble for korea.
http://japanese.joins.com/article/article.php?aid=137606&servcode=400§code=430
The government four years from 1968 the East of the low-level radioactive waste about 45 tons (the East Sea in Japan) were dumped. Ulleungdo dumping area (Ulleungdo) depth of about 2200 meters away from the south 12 miles away.
Waste were dumped in reducing low-level radioactive waste safety standards within a year from natural radioactivity, abandoned in a sealed storage container 15 inches thick.
web translatuin used…
http://www.who.int/hac/crises/jpn/en/
I think Korea should just pack up and move somewhere else.
The effects of radiation exposure are cumulative so even “trace amounts” can be harmful over the long haul. I heard that the recent rains in CA had 181 times the normal level of radiactive iodine. Let’s hope that the Japanese government and TEPCO get a handle on the situation soon.
TF,
You should avoid Bananas and Brazil nuts then.
FACT: They are both RADIOACTIVE.
FACT: Most people who die before age 74 have eaten one or both! And it’s cumulative!
Yes Hamilton, in fact, everything kills you and gives you cancer. People don’t just die of “old age”. People die due to environmental factors. Heart disease and cancer are the two biggest killers. Now, why don’t you go volunteer at Fukushima?
“I think Korea should just pack up and move somewhere else.”
Maybe somewhere nearer the equator and farther away from Siberian winds.
“Even if radioactive substances leaked from the Fukushima plants come directly to Korea, the amount will be about 0.3 milli-Sievert (mSv), one third of the annual radiation dose limit,” KINS President Yun Choul-ho said.
Doesn’t this mean, though, that if it rains this way 3 times, you’d be up to your annual radiation limit? My understanding is also that 3 mile island was much better contained than Fukushima, which has 3 partial meltdowns.
This also couldn’t be good for kids or infants, who would have a lower radiation dose limit.
This “radiation dose limit” is all just arbitrary BS. The risk doesn’t just magically disappear at some predetermined level. It’s just an arbitrary data point in the risk vs. exposure curve that some government agency has deemed “safe enough” (as in only 1 in a million will get cancer instead of 1 in 10,000). The risk is still there.
Welcome to Korea!.. Where your neighbor’s problems become your problems, whether you like it or not.
Japan was accidental, (with exception to the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) by the USA.
Nevada, Marshall Islands, Biki Atoll, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine (by Russia), Moruroa, Maralinga, Emu Field, Christmas Island, Malan, (Xinjiang), Ras Koh Hills, (Chagai District), Kharan Desert, (Kharan District), Hwadae-ri, were deliberate.
Over 500 atmospheric nuclear weapons tests were conducted at various sites around the world from 1945 to 1980.
Nuclear fallout might have led to approximately 11,000 excess deaths, most caused by thyroid cancer linked to exposure to iodine-131.
United States: As of March 2009, the U.S. is the only nation that compensates nuclear test victims. Since the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act of 1990, more than $1.38 billion in compensation has been approved.
The United States nuclear program has, since its inception, suffered from a number of accidents of varying forms, ranging from single-casualty research experiments (such as that of Louis Slotin during the Manhattan Project), to the nuclear fallout dispersion of the “Castle Bravo” shot in 1954, to the accidental dropping of nuclear weapons from aircraft.
Weapons accidentally dropped by the United States include incidents near Atlantic City, New Jersey (1957), Savannah, Georgia (1958) (see Tybee Bomb), Goldsboro, North Carolina (1961), off the coast of Okinawa (1965), in the sea near Palomares, Spain (1966, see 1966 Palomares B-52 crash), and near Thule Air Base, Greenland (1968) (see 1968 Thule Air Base B-52 crash).
Eleven American nuclear warheads are thought to be lost and unrecovered, primarily in submarine accidents.
France: In March 2009, the French Government offered to compensate victims for the first time and legislation is being drafted which would allow payments to people who suffered health problems related to the tests. The payouts would be available to victims’ descendants and would include Algerians, who were exposed to nuclear testing in the Sahara in 1960.
Britain: There is no formal British government compensation program. However, nearly 1,000 veterans of Christmas Island nuclear tests in the 1950s are planning to sue the Ministry of Defense for negligence.
Russia: Decades later, Russia offered compensation to veterans who were part of the 1954 Totsk test. However, there was no compensation to civilians sickened by the Totsk test.
China: China has undertaken highly secretive atomic tests in remote deserts in a Central Asian border province. Anti-nuclear activists say there is no known government program for compensating victims.
The “dose limit” is hardly arbitrary. It represents the point at which a dose of radiation can be proven to have harmful effects (by which I mean raising the risk of cancer, etc., by an observable amount, not that getting cancer becomes automatic). Lower than that, and there is no observable effect from the radiation. Saying that getting a lower-than-threshhold dose is harmful is like saying that losing five minutes of sleep on a certain night will make you more tired the next day, or that one more sip of beer will make you more drunk. Yes, it might technically be true, but you’re not going notice, and even a doctor would be hard pressed to actually prove it.
And as many have pointed out, it is utterly useless (and incredibly irresponsible) to report that Japan is dumping “7 tons of radioactive seawater ever hour” without also detailing how much radiation is in said seawater. It’s like reporting that a criminal was given “a jail term of some time” or that a corporation will be fined “an amount of money.”
Okay. No more similes. I promise.
I’m sure it is safe for Korea’s diplomats and journalist in Japan to continue their golf games and drinking sessions uninterrupted by the crisis.
@ Pawi
“people are scared of radiation but then, koreans don’t have a right to be human, do they?”
*Cough* mad cow *cough*
xkcd.com/radiation
the comic xkcd has made a nice chart to illustrate the relative risk of different kinds of radiation.
Let’s not lose our shit, now.
TF,
What morale or other obligation do I have at a Japanese Nuclear facility?
I think you should lay off the Brazil nuts, you are entering late stage Radiation Dementia.
the Korean will not die in such radiation…..
We can go on and on about how harmless the radiation is, but frankly, I blame no one for being concerned, regardless of how near or far they are from Fukushima. Ok, when residents of California start hoarding non-radioactive iodine, I do kinda shrug that off as a California thing…
Look, I’m sticking it out in Tokyo, which means I have made the very personal decision that my health is not at risk… for now. The situation, however, is constantly in flux, and I make no judgments towards those, Japanese and non-Japanese, who have made the decision to leave Tokyo, or Japan, in general.
Seoul is closer to Fukushima than most places. Distance is a factor is the way in which radiation is distributed in the atmosphere. In other words, Californians are getting concerned over a much, much, much smaller concentration of radiation entering their borders. NOBODY like to be advised that radiation levels are spiking, irregardless of how many talking heads are going on and on about the harmless nature of said radiation. Chernobyl left a mark with much of the world. Radiation knows no borders.
Going on and on about nuclear testing, Brazil nuts, and intercontinental flights really doesn’t change the situation. I’m on the phone with my family EVERY DAY trying to convince them that I don’t need to come home and that I am perfectly safe. Is my family stupid and irrational for not seeing the “big picture” and understanding that though I have been exposed to more radiation than usual over the past few weeks, that I am perfectly safe. Frankly, I don’t think so.
The whole world is concerned about what is happening in Fukushima, and I see no reason why Japan’s closest neighbor should not be more so concerned than most.
Japonymous – What are they telling residence about the amount of radiation that has reached Tokyo from Fukushima?
A friend in Ilsan reports pissing herself with laughter on the way to work on a cloudless day watching people huddled under umbrellas, others in rain ponchos and yet others dashing from building to building!
Hi Dokdoforever,
Other than that one time about a week and a half ago when the Japanese government advised parents not to give tap water to infants, there have been no real warnings as to Tokyo. That warning was retracted 8 hours after it was issued. The retraction was most definitely tied in with the bottled water panic buying that the initial warning helped create. the retraction also made many a Tokyo resident further doubt the transparency and reliability of the information they were receiving.
There is, however, a general view that while the Japanese press may be under-reporting the situation, the foreign press may be over-reporting it. Prior to the whole Libya situation, CNN was all Fukushima all the time. I would do my best not to watch it, as it most invariably scared the bejeezus outta me. The fact that the reporters have “moved on” since Libya indicates that they were probably just reporting for drama more so than for fact.
Most people’s concerns right no revolve around the food supply. This rings particularly true on the fisheries front. The Japanese are hyper-aware of how environmental disasters can affect the food chain and fish in particular, as they not only had to suffer through Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but they also had to deal with the Minamoto mercury poisoning situation.
Quite frankly, other than the food supply issue (hoping that imports of food stuffs increase so as to push those fears away) I’m not too concerned with the levels of radiation in the atmosphere. Tokyo is a little bit over 200km away from Fukushima. Even under a worst case scenario, the chances of the radiation getting all the way to Tokyo and affecting humans is very low. Weeks have passed since the crisis has begun, and the main fear that the reactors were still on full generation have dissipated, along with the radiation numbers. There is, however, the risk of rain clouds bringing radiation, but even under such circumstances, most experts believe that staying in doors should grant sufficient protection (though that may adversely affect the water supply).
As mentioned in my earlier post, however, I feel relatively safe. If I had an infant child however, I probably would not be comfortable being here.
aaronm, no real panic like that here. People are cautious, and certain to use umbrellas when it rains, but, in Japan, like in Korea, most use umbrellas even with the slightest drizzle even without concerns for radiation.
Then again, I’m in Indonesia and reporting on what a friend wrote on facebook. According to Pawi I’m likely making it all up because (in his and the other Kyopo remoras’ minds) I hate the minjoke.
No radioactive rain after all? Just when I was getting ready to join in on that old Dylan song . . . “I’ve been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard . . .”
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Hamilton,
You have to ask? I was just kidding. Duuuh.
What’s with you and Brazil nuts? I’m just speaking of scientific facts and common sense here. You’re the one sounding hysterical with your response in #15 and your personal insults. You’re not known around here for petty ad hominems so it seems I’ve said something specific to offend you.
Ann Coulter: Radiation is actually GOOD for you!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXFUUGeV1DI
She sounds like some people around here.
TF,
I was also trying to use a little humor, I do admit my attempts often fail.
I have no problem with people being concerned about radiation and the consequences for their health but I see too many people coming to conclusions that are based on fear and not on science. For the most part they don’t understand radiation and are unaware that they are exposed to it throughout their lives and not just from X-rays or CAT scans.
Brazil nuts have up to four times the radiation than bananas do so I like to pick on them. (And they are pretty tasty) If my writing ever seems hysterical in tone then you are reading it too fast.
Another “big one” guys. Thank god it wasn’t as big as the REALLY big one three weeks ago, but it was the biggest one since then, and crazy scary!
Tsunami warnings for Miyagi-prefecture. I pray they are all well up there
Listening to emergency broadcast message transmitted in Japanese, English, Chinese, Korean and Portuguese on NHK.
Here’s a quote from the radiation chart that was linked above:
That’s basically what I’m saying.
Well we’re not talking Brazil nuts, we’re talking about a nuclear meltdown so there is a legitimate cause for concern. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see a statistically significant increase in cancer rates over the long term in places like Sendai and maybe even Tokyo, depending on weather and how long Fukushima continues to spew radiation. I just hope the prevailing winds keep blowing east, away from the Korean peninsula.
Big, long and shakey in Tokyo. 7.4 up in Miyagi, with a modest tsunami warning.
The highest concentration level of radioactive iodine 131 that fell on Jeju-Do yesterday were equal to 0.037 millisievert (mSv), one thirtieth of the annual radiation dose limit. So I suppose that’s manageable if they can prevent the problem from worsening before the rainy season arrives.
I really can’t blame the general Korean public for freaking out about radiation. Ever since the Chernobyl accident, radiation became one of the major boogieman across the entire world. If the Fukushima radiation leak scared the Californians 5000 miles away into hoarding iodide pill, I think it’s not that ridiculous for the Koreans 750 miles away to freak out as well.
And tinyflowers, don’t worry man. At the radiation level Korea’s getting from Fukushima, it’d take about several millenia of constant exposure for it to develop into anything even marginally serious. Lucky for everyone around Fukushima, the containment didn’t blow and the radiation didn’t get airbursted into the atmosphere (like it had w/ Chernobyl, which didn’t even have containment). And most of the shit that’s in the atmosphere are iodine isotopes, which loses its radioactivity in about 2 weeks or so.
I’m sure you didn’t make it up, but at best your friend (and you by extension of your comment) is being a complete dick for laughing at people because they’re scared of radiation.
Sorry, I’m not excusing anyone here, including the multiple family members who have contacted me to make sure “everything is okay.” However, I am a little more forgiving of the general public than I am of the media. After all, people are more likely to see danger where there is none than vice versa. The media, however, gets no such concessions. This is blatant, flagrant fear-mongering, plain and simple. Fear sells newspapers and draws TV ratings: opportunism and egregious irresponsibility at its worst.
How come no one makes fun of France and UK for running scared and evacuating their citizens from Japan? Talk about mass hysteria.
Perhaps the major Korean newspapers can run a DEATH TOLL graphic on the front page every day. On one side will be the toll from MAD COW and on the other side will be the toll from RADIATION RAIN.
Don’t forget fan death — gruesome radiation fan death, IHBB.
you guys must imagine the historically events how the korean acted and exaggerated. waht happend ..Jeje uprising? 3.1 independent movement..
they always react such way in Panic
Tinyflowers,
You bet, they were made fun of in some expat Japan sites. Especially the French. Not so much at this site.
#48 hoihoi you guys must imagine the historically events how the korean acted and exaggerated. waht happend ..Jeje uprising? 3.1 independent movement.. they always react such way in Panic
————————–
@ hoihoi
Do remember what the panicked Japanese did to Koreans during the Great Kanto earthquake in 1923.
The Korean Massacre
http://dl.lib.brown.edu/kanto/denewa.html
Mad cow? fan death? How original. You guys are a riot! Quick, someone come up with a ‘Hub’ joke.
GF#44: Hey GF, don’t know if you are in Korea or Japan, but I’m in Tokyo, and despite the fact that I find the calls mildly annoying, I most defiately excuse the calls from the family. I mean come on, man! They are family! They re concerned! they love us;)
I do however agree with you 100% on the media hysteria front.
TF@45 – EVERYONE who wasn’t French was poking fun at the French in Tokyo. The UK, btw, did NOT order an evacuation of Tokyo. Nor did the US. Regardless, as you can see from my previous comments, I agree with you on most of your main points on this thread.
tf, why so apologetic about the mad cow and fan death comments. ridiculous as they might be, those are real fears and issues here with significant economic and political consequences.
e-mail from my colleague–a chemistry teacher:
Let’s pause for a second to take a look at the major health hazards facing children in Korea. One of them causes mass panic and schools to be shut down. The others, not such a big deal.
1) Lack of soap and toilet paper in public restrooms.
Not removing snow or ice from car windows before driving.
2) Burrying livestock in shallow mass graves next to the rivers that provide the majority of Korea with tap water
3) Scooters driving on sidewalks
4) Feeding children ramyeon for dinner day after day so they can make to hagwon on time.
5) Smoking EVERYWHERE
6) Not showering for 1 month after giving birth.
7) Not clearing snow from streets or sidewalks.
9) Rain from Japan whose radioactivity is slightly above background
10) Mopping out the toilets of a public restroom and then rinsing those same mops in the sink in which students wash their hands.
11) Watching TV while driving and talking on the phone.
I did some rough calculations tonight.
98.2 nanosieverts = radiation dose in 1 banana (all potassium-containing foods have a small amount of the radioactive isotope Potassium-40)
84.1 nanosieverts = radiation does you would get by drinking 2 liters of today’s rain water.
I think a lot of us mocked the cheese-eating surrender monkeys and continue to mock the flyjin and byejin of Japan. How embarrassing to have to tiptoe back to your office in Ropponggi Hills after panicking like a schoolgirl. And Korea: Hub of “Koreans are special and therefore more vulnerable to mad cows, nocturnal fans and 8-minute-half-life iodine isotopes.” Do I get a prize?
Try that again.
I much prefer radioactive banana more than the radioactive rainwater. In fact, I would never drink rainwater, unless I had to. I would also try to avoid being rained on by sporting a raincoat, umbrella, boot or some sort of that combination. Getting wet sometimes sucks! And if I can avoid tiny amounts of unnecessary radiation exposure by wearing something I might already wear, why not?
There is no panic or over reaction in Korea. The statements by the government are rational, clear, measured and rightfully concerned.
I guess my comment linking to the story about the UK evacuating its citizens is stuck in moderation.
You get your daily allowable dose of background radiation (it’s good for you!). I kinda like “Hub of stooopid scared people” because, as we all know, only Koreans get overly concerned about little things like radiation and BSE. How dare they take precautionary measures to protect themselves! Don’t they know how silly they look?
I chatted with Japanese and Western businessmen in Akasaka last night (at a great British real ale pub called Hobgoblin) and the Japanese ones said the exodus of Korean and SE Asian students and young part-time workers was quite pronounced and has crippled the restaurant/bar sector, which relies on “arubaito” labor. A lot of the foreign financial houses were forced by insurance policy requirements to move out their expats (at least to Osaka) but they did not extend that to Japanese staff. At one German firm, the German management fled without telling the local staff or leaving any instructions. There will be raw feelings at a lot of those companies. My company did not do this, and in fact flew in every Japanese speaker around the world, although some local and expat staff sent their kids to other parts of Japan or to Korea.
Odd as this sounds, now is a good, cheap(ish) uncrowded time to visit peak cherry blossom time Japan.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110407/wl_asia_afp/japandisasteraccidentnuclearskorea
Do check out the photo. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.
Oh, and . . . expats are stupid too and smell bad, or something. Wouldn’t want the Koreans among us to feel discriminated against.
This maybe true but your link illustrates a more accurate conclusion than your conclusion. I think it should say:
Wouldn’t want the environmental activist among us to feel discriminated against.
@Japonymous:
Is my family stupid and irrational for not seeing the “big picture” and understanding that though I have been exposed to more radiation than usual over the past few weeks, that I am perfectly safe.
Well, since you asked, yes they are. Not, of course, for starting out ignorant — we are all ignorant about most information, including a whole lot of vital information. But to the extent that someone’s reaction follows scaremongering media rather than the relevant scientists and public health professionals, certainly, they’re being irrational. Following unreasonable ways of knowing stuff, in place of reasonable ones, is in fact what the word “irrational” means.
As mentioned in my earlier post, however, I feel relatively safe. If I had an infant child however, I probably would not be comfortable being here.
Well, thanks for the info about your own emotional triggers, but this isn’t a therapy session. Whether and to what extent an adult or infant is at risk, isn’t determined by your comfort level — unless, that is, you work to adjust your comfort level to reasonable ways of knowing (especially properly conducted science).
@japanymous
Your family may be irrational but I think their reaction is perfectly healthy and normal. Now if they did something more drastic other than just expressing their desire to have you home nice and safe, then there irrationality is going over the line considering the science.
No need to adjust your comfort level to some sort of reasonable way. You already sound reasonable.
Wow JG! I had no idea that you held a degree in nuclear physics AND has access to 100% of the information coming out of the Fukishima plant! I am impressed. Especially in light of the fact that confidence in info emanating from both TEPCO and the Japanese government is particularly low, and yet the Japanese government itself EXPLICITLY PUT OUT A WARNING THAT THE AMOUNT OF RADIATION IN TOKYO’s TAP WATER WAS DANGEROUS TO INFANTS, and only lifted it after the warning triggered hysterical panic shopping. So, yes… this fact allowed my to construct my own personal emotional trigger. Especially since I see many of my Japanese co-workers in senior positions explicitly sending their families, children in particular, out of Tokyo.
And, yes, I feel safe now, but I do not blame anyone for planning for a worst case scenario.
And, lets discuss the present now, shall we. 5 weeks ago I had 24 hour access to basically anything I could ever need. Convenience stores, fully stocked, everywhere. Now, umm, almost impossible to find a bottle of water, and there are rolling blackouts all over the place. We have been more or less warned that airconditioning may be a problem in Tokyo this summer, and we all now how ownderfully “moderate” Tokyo’s summers are (read: NYC August plus double the humidity). Oh, and yeah, yesterday an earthquake scared the beejeezus out of me and about 15 million other people, though, thank god, no one died. This coupled with the fact that three weeks ago I was stuck on the 21st floor of a highrise, hiding under a desk with coworkers praying that I wouldn’t die.
Despite all of the above, I have decided to stay in Tokyo, but, you know what, I’d have to be an absolute ASS to criticize anyone, Japanese or otherwise, who is, you know, just a little bit scared, and, who, you know, may not believe all the information they are receiving. ‘Cuz let me tell you something JG, should the situation get worst (and I realize that it probably won’t) – I’m not looking forward to trying to get out of this city – especially not with infant in tow – along with another 12 million people. And you know, if I were to make my decisions based solely in hard science and information that I am receiving from authorities with a vested interest NOT to cause a panic, and were to refuse to factor in the “human elements” of a panicked evacuation, well, that would be just a touch to optimistic on my part…
So, yeah, thanks for calling my family stupid for caring about me. I’m sure I would be in need of far fewer “therapy sessions” if I was born into a family that did not give two crappolas about my well being.
Amazing, as I have been trying to convince family and friends for the past three weeks that all is well, and that there is no reason to worry, your sterile, insulting, thoughtless post has done more to strengthen their position than anything my mom or dad, or sister, or oncologist cousin, or close family friend whose son died of thyroid cancer could ever tell me.
Thanks Alex. I agree with you. It is perfectly reasonable for a family to care about one another when they are far apart… especially when there is the specter of danger hiding in the winds (or the rain, or the sashimi)
Here, the fruits of the Korean media’s labor:
Perhaps rubbing some American beef on that blister will clear it up.
OR KILL YOU!
,blockquote/> How come no one makes fun of France and UK for running scared and evacuating their citizens from Japan?
sperwered!
Slim, I think we’re up to four columns for the daily DEATH TOLL graphic of baseless Korean hysteria.
Column 1: Mad Cow deaths
Column 2: Radiation Rain/Sandstorms/Sushi deaths
Column 3: Fan Death holocaust toll
Column 4: Cho Seung-Hui related deaths and injuries attributable to marauding hordes of pissed whities looking for revenge on KA students
On NHK, Son Jeong-Eui Masayoshi made criticism about Japanese government’s dealing with the Fukushima incident.
alexwon,
Did you actually read the article I linked to? Do you seriously believe that Gyeonggi officials closed schools due to their sense of environmental activism? Because the article very explicitly states why they closed the schools. Hint: it wasn’t environmental activism.
Wow JG! I had no idea that you held a degree in nuclear physics AND has access to 100% of the information coming out of the Fukishima plant!
I had no idea that this level of personal knowledge was required to decide how much to weigh information from people who have spent their careers studying the science on radiation transmission and radiation-related illness, versus newspaper journalists and your grandma.
As far as the warning and retraction: What is a government supposed to do when they believe (i) there is a small but noticable increased risk, such that using alternatives when available is a good choice, but (ii) doomsday panic is far worse than the existing risk?
So, yeah, thanks for calling my family stupid for caring about me. I’m sure I would be in need of far fewer “therapy sessions” if I was born into a family that did not give two crappolas about my well being.
I didn’t say (and don’t believe) that they are stupid for caring about you. Caring about someone’s welfare is a different process from deciding how much of a risk a particular factor is to that welfare. (Can’t believe this even has to be pointed out.) I have a few relatives, for example, who care very much about my immortal soul going to burn eternally in a pit of fire, because I don’t “accept” that a possibly mythical ancient radical died “for me” long before I was born. It’s nice that they care, but yes, that belief is still highly irrational.
One more thing: I don’t think that therapy sessions are bullshit, and I certainly wouldn’t criticize somebody for going to one to work through what freaks them out. Although I’ve rarely felt that I had the dire need (and money) for therapy, my psychological health is far from perfect, and I’ll readily admit that if faced with a huge personal or public tragedy I might benefit a lot from a good therapist. What I said is that this is not a therapy session, by which I mean that you aren’t justified in putting forth your fears as if they were some kind of evidence about how endangered people actually are.
That said, I wish you all the best, man, and I have been doing my part (though not enough) to help from Korea. But the people doing the most to help you are experts within the government, academic and scientific infrastructure of a very strong and healthy nation. They are not the enemy.
WOW JG, doing your best from Korea. That’s great. Why don’t you come here and sit in the shoes of my friends who are either pregnant or who have pregnant wives, or infants, or children under five who are overwhelmed by all the information that they are receiving? Look, sorry buddy, but growing up in NYC, I was never once warned by any “expert” there not to drink the tap water. And, oh, then there’s the little problem with the food chain. Remember Minamoto disease? You will have to excuse me and my friends living here, a stone through away from MULTIPLE reactors that are spewing radiation out, dealing with the information, and making their own personal decisions about their own health, and the life of their families.
My infant comment was based on:
1- warnings from EXPERTS.
2- warnings from EXPERTS and reputable foreign governments.
3- My understanding that we are not all computers, and that mass hysteria and panic is just as much of a thing to fear under these situations as is radiation.
Look, I made my own decision to stay in Tokyo, based on my own analysis of the situation, science and otherwise. Its very easy to sit there a sea away (and a country away, as the island of Honshu is allowing for the radiation to disperse to very minor levels before it makes its way around to the Sea of Japan) and criticize those that have made their own personal decisions in relation to their health and families, and to have the audacity to criticize ones family for maybe not just looking at the ‘hard numbers” and for being concerned about the well being of their loved ones.
I realize, however, that your response above was a little less heavy handed, and I appreciate your efforts at said softening of prose.
#11, More news on radiation and using the ocean as a garbage dump
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2010/02/129_9392.html
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2008/02/123_18718.html
Granfalloon,
Do you actually think before you write? You said:
You got that right. Except, only you and a few others can make this stuff up.
And I did read the article, which you clearly did not comprehend.
Alexwon- Not sure what you’re trying to say or if you are saying what you think you are saying about the article in question. Language or irony deficit?
The content of the article exactly supports what Granfalloon is saying. The photo is mismatched, a poor choice by the AFP or Yahoo, and perhaps that’s what lead you off the rails, in terms of logic.
Slim,
Irony? Not really. I take Granfalloon’s link to the article at face value. Ha ha ha, an article that includes a picture of environmental activist which to me exaggerates the concern in the text. The pic is not the opposite of the text. But I think an exaggeration. Where is the irony in Granfalloon’s post. He just seems to recognize the exaggeration and make fun of it. Not ironic nor interesting.
An interesting post. A Japanese journalist took courage to drive through the evacuation zone near
Fu*k U ShimaFukushima nuclear power plant.Driving Through The Fukushima Exclusion Zone
Arghaeri,
The official policy of most foreign embassies in Japan, immediately following the disaster were pretty close to the information you provide in the link. A sound policy. However, the link does not show the entire picture. There were plenty of western foreigners who left Japan, with advisories and encouragement.
Some 7,000 family members from five U.S. military bases have departed mainland Japan so far amid fears of radiation leaking from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant, left crippled by the March 11 earthquake and subsequent tsunami.
France urges nationals in Tokyo to leave country or head south
Of the 9,000 French citizens registered with their consulates, about 2,500 remain in Tokyo, while 2,000 remain in other parts of Japan. That’s about 4,500 – roughly 50%.
Also both the US and British consulates chartered flights overseas, for their citizens who wished to leave.
Alexwon
The UK advise was that worst case they considered could be managed by staying indoors.
Charter flight to HK arranged to supplement scheduled flights for those who nonetheless wish to leave – at a whapping 600 pounds!
i.e english diplomatic speak for no need to panic but if you really are a big girls blouse we’ll charge you a premium to get out.
No report on take up, but I suspect no such flights actually took place.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12769178
And let me clarify that minute amounts of radiation, such as the potassium contained in bananas, is actually good for the body as it stimulates the tumor-fighting capabilities of the immune system. It’s called hormesis. Some researchers think that hormesis also explains the health benefits of phytochemicals. It’s not the antioxidants themselves but the body’s reaction to them that improves health. Natural amounts found in plants are fine. Processed foods jacked up with plant sterols are not.
I am not sure how much credible measurement of radiation in the air is. Japan radiation levels uncertain: Should evacuation zone be bigger?
You gotta think about radiation exposure per hour, minute, or second. Let’s say you eat a banana every 10 minutes, then cumulative radiation you get at the end of the day will be 14,140.8 nanosieverts.
Arghaeri,
Why do you suspect this? The fact is the flights did take place and the Brits did flee Japan like a ‘big girls blouse’; if that is what you wish to call it. Not more macho than other foreigners.
Britons flee earthquake-hit Japan
Truth is many foreigners including US, British, and French citizens fled Japan after the earthquake.
I suspected it cos I hadn’t heard any report that they had, hence the word suspected. I stand corrected, 44 people took the flight with around 30 from Sendai which was directly hit by the tsunami.
I might remind you that my comments were in response to this from TinyFlower
Now you may disagree but I don’t see the actuality as “running scared” and mass hysteria. If you do then I suggest the whole world is wrapped up in mass hysteria.
That’s a real mass exodus.
Not import the beef?
I will be in Tokyo for a week attending a friend’s wedding, my friend says she doesn’t feel there is imminent danger to cancel the wedding which she planned before the earthquake, so.
Radiation can penetrate soft tissues. Without drinking radiation-contaminated water, you still have chances to be exposed to radiation in the air. And its effect is cumulative.
Anyhow, Korean kids must be delighted to have a day off from school.
Arghaeri,
That is 44 Brit nationals on 1 flight to Hong Kong. I am certain that the number is higher if you count all other flights.
If I remember correctly, TinyFlowers’ comment questioned the trend on this comment thread mocking Koreans for being concerned about radioactivity with nary a recognition of the Brit/French flight from Japan A double standard?
BTW, as I mentioned earlier, the ones fleeing Japan (especially the French as their government’s statements were the most extreme) were mocked on some expat sites in Japan.
Well, I do think it is an example of ‘running scared’.
Flyjin a new term in the Japan-related vocab. I guess I am a fly*into*jin..
I guess “flyjin” is a Janglish: “fly” (away or back again) + “jin” (person, like Nihon-jin).
The other pages of WSJ gives me an impression that expats avoid staying in Tokyo area if it is possible.
And some American parents in Tokyo seem really panicked by the earthquake and radiation.
[T]he Tokyo-based American School in Japan, which reopened last Tuesday after being closed for two weeks, said that nearly half of the students were absent on the first week back to school. Some 80 families, 11% of the school, told the school that they wouldn’t be returning before the end of the school year in June.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704587004576240542791917326.html
Try it again.
I guess “flyjin” is a Janglish: “fly” (away or back again) + “jin” (person, like Nihon-jin).
The other pages of WSJ give me an impression that expats avoid staying in Tokyo area if it is possible.
And some American parents in Tokyo seem really panicked by the earthquake and radiation.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704587004576240542791917326.html
If I remember correctly,
Me:
What is a government supposed to do when they believe (i) there is a small but noticable increased risk, such that using alternatives when available is a good choice, but (ii) doomsday panic is far worse than the existing risk?
Yuna:
Not import the beef?
In principle, yes. This was a perfectly reasonable reaction of other nations to UK beef, for example. In actuality, the tiny number of US cases, among an unusual subset of cattle in a huge beef-producing nation, together with the horrendously fraudulent media program that really got the ball rolling, change my answer for this particular case to the negative.
Yet another big one while on the 21st floor. Again, can’t compare with THE big one, but big nonetheless. This time they put on a wailing siren 30 seconds before and advised us that an earthquake was coming. I must say, the warning added to the drama.
Apparently, the earthquake (and this is the scary part) was centered in Fukushima…
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