And the Most Unadvised Comment of the Week Award goes to Yoido Full Gospel Church pastor David Yonggi Cho, who offered up this commentary on the massive earthquake in Japan:
The Sunday edition of the Internet newspaper News Mission reported Yoido Full Gospel Church senior pastor David Yonggi Cho as saying, “The earthquake makes me wonder if this was not God’s warning.”
In an interview the newspaper, Cho responded to a request for comments on Japan’s difficulties following its largest earthquake in recorded history by saying, “Japan sees a lot of earthquakes, and I think it is regrettable that there has been such an enormous loss of property and life due to the earthquake.” He went on to say, “Because the Japanese people shun God in terms of their faith and follow idol worship, atheism, and materialism, it makes me wonder if this was not God’s warning to them.”
“I hope that this catastrophe can be turned into a blessing and they take this opportunity to return to the Lord,” he added.
Cho also said, “We in Korea look at Japan and think that at this juncture, more than a physical earthquake, it is in need of a holy spiritual earthquake.”
So said the head pastor of the largest church in the world.
Lest anyone think this is representative, though, the general Korean response to the disaster has been one of grief, sorrow and desire to help.
Speaking of which, if you live in Korea, Naver.com’s Happy Bean is collecting donations for the victims in Japan. They’ve collected almost 156 million won so far.
{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }
I actually like the Korea Times article better.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/03/117_83088.html
“Among others, progressive culture critique Chin Jung-kwon posted a series of messages on his Twitter account.
One of them reads, “We should establish a committee to lift Cho up to the sky, (as what Jesus is prophesied to do to his followers in the Bible when he ever returns to Earth on Judgment Day). It is not technically difficult. We just need to arrange a seat for him next to Naro satellite when it is launched.”
Chin also ridiculed the pastor by tweeting that what Cho preaches is not about religion but mass hysteria, calling his followers empty-headed fools.
Many other Internet users echoed Chin’s views, saying it was inappropriate of Cho as a senior religious leader to make such demeaning remarks about the earthquake victims.
One netizen said he feels ashamed of the pastor as a Christian himself, while other Internet users vowed to stay away from the church if God punishes non-believers in such a manner as Cho said.”
I wonder if Cho thinks the Korean War was also a warning from God, considering that only about 2 percent of Koreans were Christian in 1945.
For some reason I was under the impression that religious leaders were supposed to offer words of comfort and reassurance in times like these. However, it seems that all a lot of them (or at least the ones that get media attention) do is offer words which are divisive and offensive.
Just another reason why religion in all its foul ignorance needs to be shut down.
David Yonggi Cho must be Korean for Glenn Beck. Leave it to the dumbfuck holy rollers to use tragedy as a means to appropriate “God’s will” disguised as their own stupid fucking opinion. It must be nuggets like these that prove Beck is a genius
As if that weren’t enough stupid for the day, professional asshole #2 would like you to know that the situation in Japan really isn’t that bad, and it’s all just the media stoking fear. In fact, the nuclear reactors currently in the middle of meltdown aren’t really a danger to anyone, because they’re largely “behaving as designed.”
These are the shining lights of conservative media opinion these days.
Carr was joking, right?
With all the options in His arsenal I’m glad God doesn’t tire of the old earthquake-followed-by-tsunami standby. It’s classic rock ‘n roll.
Just another reason why religion in all its foul ignorance needs to be shut down.
Rather an odd statement from someone living in Indonesia. There is no frame of reference large enough to enable you or anyone else to separate Islam from the Indonesia. Wherever you are in the archipelago (other than Bali, I suppose), it would be impossible for you to even begin imagining what reality would look like if the surrounding religion were to be ‘shut down’.
All that’s happened is that the less-than-good Reverend is engaging in politics, not preaching. What his political motives are I could care less. The issue would be mundane if not for the size of his church and the crassness of his timing. A hospital, a hakwon, a family business, a Fortune 500 company, a blog, a church, a central bank….any human institution at all suffers when its leadership indulges in playing politics when it should be attending to the business intended for it.
@4 exactly my thoughts too. Cho is a disgusting human being. He reminds me of the human trash who blamed Haiti for the earthquake there. It just goes to show how barbaric a lot of religious people actually are.
Well done to South Korea’s citizens and government (plus all the other countries involved) for offering real help. The Japanese don’t need money, they’ve got plenty of that, they do need help with logistics, supplies, personnel, cadaver dogs, search dogs, equipment and fresh water though. The scale of the disaster with the earthquake + tsunami + nuclear business is mind boggling. Japan isn’t Indonesia, they don’t really need money from others to rebuild. But they do need a hand until things calm down over there and that’s why giving to a charity who has trained personnel on hand to deal with the problems is a good idea. I’ll be making a contribution.
I really hope the final death toll, doesn’t turn out to be on the scale I think it probably will be. And the possibility of serious radioactive contamination is a very worrying prospect, it won’t be a Chernobyl type event, but it could be more serious than many people are saying.
Personally I think nuclear energy is a bit silly in an earthquake prone area. It may seem sensible, cheap, safe and clean elsewhere, but the process of decommissioning an old nuclear power station + storing the used fuel rods is very, very expensive indeed. As a species we need to reduce energy demand, first and foremost and also move to cleaner forms of energy. Tidal, solar, biofuel, wind, hydro electric all have a place in generating cleaner, cheaper, safer and less environmentally damaging power. Renewable might not be able to supply all our needs, but they certainly have an important place in reducing danger and pollution.
Let’s hope the Japanese recover speedily from this horrific disaster.
#8:
Rather an odd statement from someone living in Indonesia. There is no frame of reference large enough to enable you or anyone else to separate Islam from the Indonesia.
I guess you’ve never heard of anyone living in a place while desiring that it fundamentally change. If you were Rosa Parks, I guess you’d have packed right up and moved to San Francisco or something.
“I hope that this catastrophe can be turned into a blessing and they take this opportunity to return to the Lord,” he added.
How can the people of Japan “return to the Lord” when they never followed the “Lord” in the first place?”
or was “return” mistranslated? perhaps it should have been “turn”
Or maybe they’ll just pray harder and sacrifice more to whichever Shinto god governs the sea and earth.
I recall the same absurd sermon being delivered by pastor 김홍도 at 금란교회 after the 2004 tsunami leveled Aceh. Something about Jesus punishing the Indonesian people for being Muslim.
Seems to me like someone needs to sit Pastor Cho down and explain Plate Tectonics 101 to him.
Cho is in the august company of Ishihara Shintaro:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110315x7.html
On Monday, Ishihara told reporters, “Japanese politics is tainted with egoism and populism. We need to use tsunami to wipe out egoism, which has rusted onto the mentality of Japanese over a long period of time.”
“I think (the disaster) is tembatsu (divine punishment), although I feel sorry for disaster victims,” he said.
My heart goes out to Japanese victims struck by last week’s calamitous earthquake and tsunami.
#7: I would’ve made a more cheerful reply than this to your link, but thanks all the same.
If the deaths of these tens of thousands of Japanese men, women and children are indeed the result of “Gods Divine Judgment” then all I can say is that God’s a really rotten marksman. That is unless of course he divinely inspired all the wicked & evil people to rush down to the coast to welcome the incoming Tsunami and drown whilst at the same time inspiring all the righteous Japanese to turn and run inland to higher ground and safety in which case he was a jolly clever & resourceful fellow. The truth is that these bible thumpers always jump in to make as much mileage as possible from perfectly natural disasters in order to fill their pews & coffers with fresh bums & bank-notes. They are shameless.
Anyone who is judging Cho as un-Christian, uncaring, or in the least bit surprising hasn’t read the Hebrew Bible (aka the Old Testament), where prophets were always interpreting disasters of all stripes as warnings from God. Nor is the Hebrew Bible unique in doing so. Frankly, I think what Cho evinces is a very primal response of our species–it’s human to try to make sense out of our environment, to impose a sense of moral order on a universe that can often seem hostile and difficult to understand. I guarantee you that at this moment, there are fundamentalist Christians (and Muslims) all around the world saying exactly the same thing as Cho, and I know because I used to be one. Others will be contemplating the problem of theodicy anew. As for religion itself, I’d prefer it if it were to disappear from the planet and leave us all with the “moral suasion of Socrates,” as Hitchens summarized our historical humanism the other day.
David Yonggi Cho must be Korean for Glenn Beck.
I don’t know about Glenn Beck but what Cho said sure reminds me of what Pat Robertson said about the earthquake in Haiti almost a year ago.
Well Nathan, your observation has convinced me that there is such a thing as de-evolution of humanity. Cho has clearly become a monkey if not an ass.
#19 Good point NK – was it him or Oral Roberts that claimed God was going to take him (to heaven) unless a certain amount of money was raised via the collection plate? If only the mafia had that type of power.
If I become as rich as Bill Gates (very unlikely) and I ever came to believe in the existence of ‘Devils’ and ‘Hell’ (even more unlikely). I’d happily donate every single penny to my local satanic worship church on the promise that satan almighty will send all those types of preachers to hell. I don’t think there is a ‘devil worship’ church in my neighbourhood, I may have to start one.
As I’m sensible, if were one one of the mega rich people. I’d do what Gates is doing and put my wealth to good use.
The Japanese don’t need my money, they’re a rich nation. I’ll be donating to proper charities, who will help them in their time of need and others in their times of need in the future- heck I might even need them someday in a time of peril.
@19
“. . . reminds me of what Pat Robertson said about the earthquake in Haiti almost a year ago.”
For sure, and like what Robertson and Falwell said about the 9/11 attacks:
https://home.comcast.net/~joe.grabko/falwell.mp3
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273295,00.html
Speaking of bad taste (or timing)…
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-10-worst-gilbert-gottfried-tsunami-jokes
Of course not all Christians think this way, they understand something about how the Japanese archipelagos exist along a side of the so-called “Ring of Fire” and that earthquakes happening in Japan is, paraphrasing from someone else, as explicable as train accidents happening near train tracks; and yada yada yada.
But that means shit considering how prevalent their sort of childish, egocentric thinking is among them, thinking that is not just prevalent but identifiable with and is the very cause of their pseudo-spiritual natures. Folks like Cho and Beck and countless others who are both ordinary and influential in society underline something that reveals how much of an abortion religion really is.
Slim, I didn’t click your link, but I’m hoping it isn’t some of the Gottfried jokes that got him some bad press last night or today. This is not the time to joke. People are dead, and it could have been one of anyone’s family had the disaster struck elsewhere. I’m hoping that post will be deleted.
You boys might mock, but I bet Jennifer McCreight isn’t feeling quite so smug anymore, especially if she has friends in New Zealand or Japan.
By my admittedly anecdotal reckoning it’s been a pretty shitty first ten years of the third millennium, on quite a number of fronts.
Maybe so, considering the God-talk Beck is spouting over this, too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/14/glenn-beck-japan-earthquake-god_n_835573.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=638774,b=facebook
#28
re: Beck link
I’m guessing that God’s message is that pressurized water reactorsare better than boiling water reactors.
My own comment reminds me of a joke I heard a long time ago:
There is a huge flood and a man is stuck in his house while the water level rises. The rescuers come and warn him to get out, but he says, it’s OK I believe in God he will look after me..then the water rises so he goes upstairs.. the rescuers come in a boat and ask him to get in. He is singing hymns and refuses the offer, saying he has absolute faith that he will be OK. Then the water rises so he is up on the roof. The rescue helicopter comes and lowers its ladder. He is adamant that he will be alright on the roof because he has God on his side.
Then he dies..When he meets God, he complains “God! I believed in you that you would save me, but look what’s happened!”
God replies “But I damn well tried to! I sent you the rescuer, I sent you the boat, I sent you the helicopter!”
Funny how easy the words of condemnation come from “progressive” lips and keyboards…
How many of you heard his sermon? I mean sat there in his church and listened to the whole message? How do you know he said what is claimed? How do you know it wasn’t edited or taken out of context?
And yet what will you claim at the release of another Breitbart expose?
You all claim such big hearts and open minds–and yet attack those who have different world views with a vitriol that sounds like Hollywood’s version of Puritans clucking about dancehalls and short skirts…
Bigots. Intolerant. Small-minded.
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You’re no damned better than the KKK… And you don’t even have a secret handshake or a decoder ring…
This is question begging. If Cho was quoted out of context, he can take the media with his complaint. Until he does so, there’s no need to claim otherwise. As someone who was raised listening to comments like these, though, I doubt very much doubt anything was taken directly out of context. As for me, I have no particular axe to grind with Cho; I think what he’s doing is perfectly normal, though thoroughly unhelpful.
As for bigotry, who’s the bigger bigot: the person who says that the death of thousands of people with lives of their own is a message from God to us, or the person who says he’s wrong? I actually think it’s good to see a bit of self-righteousness coming from the atheist/agnostic side of religious-secular divide for a change.
yeah, no kidding. aaronm, tell that to your wife’s family, you selective bigot.
chin should know better than to curse out a clergyman, if the background information on him is true.
cho’s words highlighted out of context.
the overall message of cho was, ‘it’s a tragedy’. But, cho did not say anything in contradiction with his beliefs. Nor Did Pat Robertson, nor did the religious leader regarding Indonesia.
ironically enough, this statement is also in jive with Confucian or Buddhist principles regarding ing and eungbo.
i feel for the Japanese people.
cho should have withheld his statement immediately after the event. Maybe should have said it 20 years after the event.
But let’s be honest here, you bigotted Christian haters who would push a Christian into a human oven if he told you he voted for Bush, Jr,
people in such calamity would do the following: pray for divine help. Are you able to stop an aftershock in Japan?
Can any modern man made intervention stop the radiation in Japan?
911 did move more Americans to the pews as well.
is Japan a morally ideal country? They are the #1 producer of porn in Asia. Suicide rate is #1 or #2 in the OECD category. bullying is tops in the world. They never made amends for World War II. A lot of their porn deals with forced intercourse or older man doing a highschool girl. Although the actors may be of ‘legal age’. Politics wise, Japan was a one party nation almost fascist like until recently.
cho was enticed to give a religious view. He gave it. Timing is wrong, but he didn’t lie. Let’s give the man credit for honesty.
am I going to be pushed into a human oven by blueballs? Likely.
Haughty, haughty, haughty…
you know what’s more ironic? It’s usually people like cho and his kind who pass around the collection plate every week who will send a lump sum significant aid in times of crisis.
people like you, weikuboy, blueballs, aaronm will sit around massage your genitals at home and yell at the tv. and say something about Japan being rich and how Japan took your job.
the most irreverent Christian hater is the white man, whose ancestors left Europe in warships and declared the rest of the human population savages and asked the Pope to bless them in ‘evangelizing’ the savages. But they asked the Pope to give them split the land with the Pope’s official words.
I’ve never seen a black man as violently hateful towards religion even though the black man may not even stand up for his own religious principals in favor of his own political motives. Jackson Sharpton.
but the religion hating white man views them as an ally and dismisses it as just a slight loon.
he should look no further than his family blood line to look for real racists who committed crimes against humanity under the name of God.
to my knowledge, Korean Christianity did not colonize a people, participate in genocide, participate in wars under the pretense of carrying out evangelizing. No, no, no. Just look at your old family photos if you want to blame someone for that.
rant over.
Me wonders how many will expend a similar effort in such venomous excoriation of other offenders of sensitivity, or are they silent in unequal opportunity and treatment… Mercy, mercy…
“Family Guy” Producer & Writer Alec Sulkin is an Insensitive Jerk
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commentary/family-guy-writer-and-producer-is-an-insensitive-jerk.html
Singapore state-run TV apologizes for insensitivity over tsunami
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9LUQ0980&show_article=1
Aflac Fires Gilbert Gottfried Over Tsunami Jokes
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/15/aflac-fires-gilbert-gottfried-over-tsunami-jokes/
Tokyo Governor: Earthquake Was Divine Punishment #ishihara_damare
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/15/tokyo-governor-earthquake-was-divine-punishment-ishihara_damare/
Malaysian Newspaper Apologizes Over Japanese Tsunami Cartoon
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/14/malaysian-newspaper-apologizes-over-japanese-tsunami-cartoon/
Paul Watson: Tsunami That Killed Hundreds of Japanese Was Divine Punishment
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/14/paul-watson-tsunami-that-killed-hundreds-of-japanese-was-divine-punishment/
OK had a look Mum as a six year old pulling a sled in the snow, the racist colonising *****
and the guys who asked the pope to split the world were spanish and portuguese not whites!
Spanish and Portuguese were ‘not whites’ ?
Pray, tell, Sir, what about the Italians?
Oh, yeah, Spewey already said something about that.
You disgusting people.
‘people like you, weikuboy, blueballs, aaronm will sit around massage your genitals at home and yell at the tv. and say something about Japan being rich and how Japan took your job.’
wjk, your flights of fancy gain new heights, but I like the turn of your phrase. I’m going to try to use ‘massage the genitals’ in a business setting tomorrow, without getting fired, and I have you to thank for it.
Re # 37:
“The wogs begin at Calais.”
And I’m half-Italian. You really don’t get it you tin-eared dimwit, but then you, individually, are a lower life form.
@8, Linkd,
Lot of difference between the old Hindu/Buddhist/Animist spirituality here on Java, ney even the old Sufi-style Islam and the Petro-Islam and Evangelical Christianity that is causing problems here today. As a primer, google pancasila, Ahmadiyah, Abu Bakar Ba’asyir and then take a look at the International Crisis Group’s last Indonesia paper for why I (and a whole bunch of secular, middle class Indonesians) might be pissy.
yeah, but you’re racist, so what?
Spwy: i bought test and hgh from a gym head, because it was cheaper and Korean pharmacies can’t be trusted but an American gym head in Korea can be.
WJK: let’s report you to the ABA.
Spwy: I don’t practice law anymore.
then let’s report you so that you’ll have some obstacles renewing your license.
Context really doesn’t matter when condemning Cho for what he’s said.
Condemnation against the religious, Cho and others, in this case, goes only one way and it varies only in intensity, touching on i) the abominable absurdity of religion, or ii) the absolutely abominable spiteful nature of religion.
Choose your poison, Christians.
For Cho, I’m sure the “context” of his sermons makes clear that he feels mourning for the victims of the earthquake – thus, ii above doesn’t apply! But that hardly matters because the other condition does.
WJK-No, I just hate you, and your dad for not pulling out or wearing a rubber. That is all, back to your bodega.
Holy living fuck, every goddamn thread is becoming a race to see how quickly he can trot out his personal, retarded Greatest Hits.
Doesn’t somebody have a perl script for this or something?
oh yeah, and your rant against Christians isn’t your personal, retarded Greatest Hits?
I mean, it’s the same thing over and over and over again.
Oh, yeah, let’s just ban pawi and wjk everytime we get stumped.
you had your greasemonkey script for years.
Your own curiosity and entertainment from it drives you to read what I write.
But due to your spite, I will leave every thread except Open Thread. bye.
Woh! WJK, you seem to know a lot about Japanese pornography!
Look, WJK, I’m not gonna jump on the “condemn the Christians” bandwagon, but, all I’m gonna say is that of all the places I have traveled, Japan is comprise of some of the kindness and warmest people I have ever met (and this is coming from a Southern European!). There is no need to play the “morals game” here. Moral codes, like ethical codes, are not always universal. Your moral codes are apparently steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition, which I happen to have a great deal of respect for. The Japanese moral code, is not. The Japanese are however, absolutely not lacking in morals. they just have their own, and those morals are, like almost every other society in the world, continuously in flux. In my almost five years living in both Osaka and Tokyo, I have almost never witnessed an actual physical fight. The fights that I have witnessed, more often than not, involve a non-Japanese participant, and even those situations have rarely or never ended in physical violence. This non-violence is a definite sign of a moral society.
Watching people in Tsunami-quake hit areas, waiting patiently on line at stores for food that may not be there by the time they reach the front of the line, is another form of morals. A sense of fairness, of collective well-being rarely seen anywhere else in the world… especially not in times of catastrophe, is amazing to behold.
Knowing that there are 50 heroes in the control room of a contaminated nuclear plant selflessly sacrificing their own lives and health in order to complete their job, and to save lives, well, that is more than moral; that is noble to the highest level.
WJK, I know, from the way you initially(well, it wan’t your initial response, but it was a moral and kind act nonetheless) responded to this catastrophe, by encouraging all of us to donate to disaster relief, that you are a good person, with a good heart, but, please, lets not raise this “Japan is an immoral country” argument as being in any shape or form viable. There is no place for that discussion now, and even if there was such a place, my answer would be in the form of a Jeopardy questions:
Whose morals (and who is to say which are more important)?
FYI. still in Tokyo, but in light of recent events, seriously considering a short trip to Osaka…
OOPS! Logged in under my old log-in from way back when (HEARN), so my comments are under moderation. Re-logged in and reposting. Sorry Matt!
___________________
Woh! WJK, you seem to know a lot about Japanese pornography!
Look, WJK, I’m not gonna jump on the “condemn the Christians” bandwagon, but, all I’m gonna say is that of all the places I have traveled, Japan is comprise of some of the kindness and warmest people I have ever met (and this is coming from a Southern European!). There is no need to play the “morals game” here. Moral codes, like ethical codes, are not always universal. Your moral codes are apparently steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition, which I happen to have a great deal of respect for. The Japanese moral code, is not. The Japanese are however, absolutely not lacking in morals. they just have their own, and those morals are, like almost every other society in the world, continuously in flux. In my almost five years living in both Osaka and Tokyo, I have almost never witnessed an actual physical fight. The fights that I have witnessed, more often than not, involve a non-Japanese participant, and even those situations have rarely or never ended in physical violence. This non-violence is a definite sign of a moral society.
Watching people in Tsunami-quake hit areas, waiting patiently on line at stores for food that may bot be there by the time they reach the front of the line, is another form of morals. A sense of fairness, of collective well-being rarely seen anywhere else in the world… especially not in times of catastrophe, is amazing to behold.
Knowing that there are 50 heroes in the control room of a radiation filled nuclear plant selflessly sacrificing their own lives and health in order to complete their job, and to save lives, well, that is more than moral, but noble to the highest level.
WJK, I know, from the way you initially responded to this catastrophe, by encouraging all of us to donate to disaster relief, that you are a good person, with a good heart, but, please, lets not raise this “Japan is an immoral country” argument as being in any shape or form viable. There is no place for that discussion now, and even if there was such a place, my answer would be in the form of a Jeopardy questions:
Whose morals (and who is to say which are more important)?
FYI. still in Tokyo, but in light of recent events, seriously considering a short trip to Osaka…
You didn’t know they’re Hispanic and more broadly mediterranean?
As far as I recall I’ve never heard of anyone who thought Italy is hispanic, but they do come under the broader classification with greeks et al of mediterranean.
You’ve really lost me now,
You’re yellow skinned , Muhammed Ali was black skinned, Seve Ballesteros is olive skinned, Barack Obama is mulatto, Hilary Clinton is white skinned but all the people at the Marmot Hole are disgusting because you can’t tell the difference? How on earth do you manage checking out all those pee pees with such poor color sight?
I will repeat again it was the Spanish and Portuguese that sought to split the world between them with various treaties sand Papal Bulls such as Aeterni Regis, the Treaty of Tordesilla and later the Treaty of Zaragosa.
Their motive was arguably not as you claim evangelizing, it was simpler to kill many of the “heathens” that got in their way.
Their actions were simply to control commodities, trade, commerce and power for which they sought validation from the “Church” i.e. the pope validation of the Church via the Pope (Pope Alexander who approved the inter caetera papal bull was himself Spanish.
@42
Do you fight any of your own battles or just have moms do it for you?
I might also note for the record that at around the same time the Spanish were trying with the Popes blessing to invade and evangelize the heathen white savages in northern europe (and succeeding in the Netherlands) and in the name of Christianity. Never hear of the Spanish Armada or the Spanish Netherlands?
I wonder what the Chileans, people of Haiti and people of Christchurch NZ, will do to him if they ever met him
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