And in today’s Hankyoreh, we have not one but two stories about the pain inflicted by the Evil Empire on poor Koreans during the Korean War:
- Bereaved families continue 2,017-day sit-in on Wolmi Island
- U.S.’s Yongsan bombing of 1950 caused 1,587 civilian deaths
And yes, in the signs held up by two of the sit-in strikers in the first story, they call the bombing of Wolmi-do just prior to the launch of the Incheon Landing a “civilian massacre” and call on the United States to publicly apologize and compensate the victims.
OK, two questions:
- Have the French, Belgians, Dutch, et. al., either at the governmental level or at the individual/group level, ever asked for compensation from the British or Americans for losses inflicted by British or US action during World War II? I’m actually asking.
- Why the hell is Incheon spending 28 billion won to build an Incheon Landing memorial park when they already have a) a massive Incheon Landing memorial complex near Songdo* and b) the statue of Gen. MacArthur at Freedom Park?
* The Incheon Landing Memorial in Incheon truly is worth visiting. It’s an imposing place designed by late architectural great Kim Swoo-geun. The funny thing is, here’s this massive monument to anti-communism, and the first thing my wife — a native of formerly communist Mongolia — says is, “Hey, it looks like monuments back home!”
{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }
Yeah, i saw a Tom Hanks movie awhile back where some rude classless bunch of Americans made a horrible mess out of some beaches in France — some innocent villages and towns, too! — the U.S.A. definitely should be made to apologize and pay compensation to the locals.
..because apparently freedom and protection from one of the most heinous, terrific tyrannies in the history of mankind—perpetrated by people of the same “blood”—is not enough compensation?
Greedy, greedy ungrateful fools. Too bad they weren’t on the Cheonan.
I guess it’s time for another apology, this time for the Wolmi-do’ers and their sympaticos at the Hanky: “We are sorry that we saved your sorry asses from a mother-figure-worshipping (B.R. Myers nod) death-cult starving dystopia. Here’s your lousy compensation you Nork-loving pieces-of-fecalite.”
You gotta love this bit:
IOW, guilty until proven innocent and, in the meantime, we will smear you to the best of our ability.
To be fair, the Hanky hardly represents the opinions of the Korean people – and the Wolmi Island group is probably just using whatever tools they can to get compensation of some sort.
Meanwhile, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is a toothless left-wing nationalist think-tank that nobody (except the Hanky) really pays any attention to (or so I hope).
The fact that the city of Incheon is going ahead with another memorial (why?) shows that many people still appreciate the US intervention.
I agree, and it’s an important distinction to make. The beef here is not with the Korean people, nor with the people of Wolmi-Do but with a handful of opportunistic nitwits who have no appreciation for the sacrifices the allies made and continue to make on behalf of South Korea. They have their compensation and they’ve been enjoying it for 60 years (just the fact that they are allowed to have that protest is a testament to this fact). I also agree that the vast majority of Koreans are appreciative of allied efforts to safeguard Korean freedom.
Its a rather easy solution actually.
Figure out how much compensation they deserve, then subtract the cost of the bombing, the lives of all Americans who were killed during the Incheon landing and it will in fact be the Wolmi ex-residents who owe the USA money.
Don’t forget the pro-ration of the billions (in today’s dollars) in aid and subsidized loans, Craash.
Gauging anti-Americanism in Korea is pretty difficult. I don’t trust the polls or my anecdotal experiences. Parsing what is just general xenophobia from specific hatred for America is darn hard. As is parsing genuine affection for America from a Confucian sense of appreciation of/respect for the (perceived) “Top Dog” in the global hierarchy.
But beyond the bizarre fun factor I’m not sure the point of highlighting the opinions of Hankyoreh. They are kinda like the Glenn Beck of Korea, sure some (probably a frightening amount) of people agree with him/them but I’ll be damned if I can take anything they say seriously.
Frankly, I’d be cool with giving the protesters an all-expense paid, one-way ticket to Pyongyang. I’d even toss in a can of bondeggi (not sure of spelling).
A couple of things. Now we all know that the Hankyoreh does represent a left wing nutty segment of the South Korean population, right?
And… we all do know that a movie that “A Little Pond” (on the supposed American massacre at No Gun Ri) flopped at the Korean box office, right?
I mean, “we all do know that the move..”
Have the French, Belgians, Dutch, et. al., either at the governmental level or at the individual/group level, ever asked for compensation from the British or Americans for losses inflicted by British or US action during World War II? I’m actually asking.
It was called “the Marshall plan.” (duh)
It’s complicated because the vast majority of the population of Canada and the USA is European (i.e. “white.”)
The total compensation given to the Netherlands by Germany? Zero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
It’s almost as if, Americans don’t know their own history very well (there’s a surprise.)
On the other hand, the majority of Americans/ Canadians are Europeans.
Which really blew some Korean’s minds, “where do you think white people come from?”
The cost to Europe was its colonies, which changed hands from the Europeans to the Americans.
there you go, Herr Köhler…
Somebody has not read, or fails to understand, the wikipedia link he posted on the Marshall Plan.
“On the other hand, the majority of Americans/ Canadians are Europeans. “
Really? I’m not a dual national, and most of my family, friends, and colleagues aren’t, either.
I believe you mean “the majority of Americans/Canadians are of European ancestry”.
“Hey, it looks like monuments back home!”
If one goes around S. Korea, one will sometimes see placards on government buildings, factories etc with slogans that say something like “Let’s do our best!” or “Let’s strive for the future!” and so forth.
Of course if one goes to N. Korea, one will see similar placards, but unlike their S. Korean counterparts, which uses a variety of colors, red and white is the only color used. That and the mostly revolutionary, people, worker, Kim themes that are obviously prevalent in the N. Korean placards.
I feel these people deserve some sympathy. They did go through some horrendous experiences. They have to deal with it, but since, it seems, the land was expropriated, some sort of compensation should have been provided.
Have the French, Belgians, Dutch, et. al., either at the governmental level or at the individual/group level, ever asked for compensation from the British or Americans for losses inflicted by British or US action during World War II? I’m actually asking.
Not to my knowledge, though how many French, Belgians, Dutch, et. al. remain internally displaced 60-odd years after hostilities end?
Tacky placards aside, I find it hard to comprehend the responses to this article. The article itself does not criticise the Incheon landing, rather the dealings of the Korean government bodies since then. From ‘Sorry not our land – can’t help’ to ‘Hey, let’s drop $30M building a theme park (what will admission be?)’. I’d be pissed too, but hey, what’s conveyancing.
I’m off to hug a tree.
@ mr Koldijk (#14-15):
He, uilskuiken, heb jij wel enig begrip voor de Marshallplan? Dat was helemaal geen compensatie of reparatie!
Not quite true, Mr Koldyk. Why don’t you have a read of this fascinating article on wikipedia.
Here is the money quote: “Eventually, an area of a total size of 69 km2 was allocated to the Netherlands. Almost all of this was returned to West Germany in 1963, after they paid the Netherlands 280 million German marks.”
And in Dutch: “Naderhand voerde de Bondsrepubliek Duitsland langdurige onderhandelingen met de Nederlandse staat welke op 8 april 1960 te Den Haag werden afgesloten met een overeenkomst, waarin de Bondsrepubliek aangaf 280 miljoen Duitse mark uit te keren voor teruggave van de drostambten Elten en Tudderen en de Duitse bebouwing aangrenzend aan Dinxperlo (Suderwick), de Wiedergutmachung.”
Can anyone name me one European colony that changed hands to the Americans as a result of the Second World War? I know that Indonesia did not, not did French Indochina (one could argue that eventually South Vietnam came under American control but that wasn’t till more than a decade later). Singapore did not, nor did Hong Kong. Korea wasn’t a European colony. Mr Koldijk, please explain.
Have you been reading any Göthe lately? Did you ever wonder why Mr Goebbels of the Nazi regime was not spelled Göbbels?
I wonder if you get upset at every descendant of Dutch people in North America who changed their “lange ij” to a “y” in their name to avoid possible mangled pronunciations. Like Dick van Dyke, for example.
@ Hamel
“I wonder if you get upset at every descendant of Dutch people in North America who changed their “lange ij” to a “y” in their name to avoid possible mangled pronunciations. Like Dick van Dyke, for example.”
No and what is annoying, to me, are people who post anonymously.
O ja? Moet ik soms mijn naam, adres and telefoon nummer hier achterlaten, zodat iedereen die kwaad wordt mij kan stalken?
hamel,
Are you from the Netherlands? (judging by your username and language fluency)
I would just leave that guy alone. He seems to be a pretty huge douchebag.
“O ja? Moet ik soms mijn naam, adres and telefoon nummer hier achterlaten, zodat iedereen die kwaad wordt mij kan stalken?”
No, I don’t want you to leave your name, address, telephone number so that everyone can stalk you.
But, without your name or background, i.e. Dutch citizenship, than you should stop forcing your words, ideas or emotions on me.
I use the name “Koldijk” because that is what is on my Alberta birth certificate.
Finally, anyone who doesn’t automatically say that the US of A is the most perfect country on the face of the earth is also a douche?
Canadians don’t want you to like them, but a little respect, once in a while, for our spilled blood on Korean soil would be nice.
Thanks for reminding me, always, why I left Korea, oh insightful, mature, anonymous and unaccountable posters.
Concerning Koldijk’s complaints about “Hamel”:
Nr 23: “. . . what is annoying, to me, are people who post anonymously.”
Nr. 26: “. . . anonymous and unaccountable posters.”
To be more precise, “Hamel” isn’t ‘anonymous’; he’s pseudonymous.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
@Jeffery
Touché
@ Sonagi
I said nothing about dual nationality, my point was that, as a “Caucasian”, I prefer to be called European.
@ Hamel
@ milton
You make a lot of assumptions about me.
milton, how do you know that I am, in fact, a douche? Have you ever met me?
Yes, Hamel, stop forcing your words, ideas or emotions on him, you big meanie.
hamel, feel free to force yourself on me anytime.
Joel: you got it cumming!
Jerfey: witty as always. Good one, Horace. Is there a word from Latin meaning someone who goes by their middle name?
Koldijk: I think what got me (and a few others) a little annoyed was your desire to force your spelling of Koehler onto the owner of this blog. Why start with such a petty point? You might have interesting things to say, so say them. But don’t take issue if an American doesn’t spell his name with an umlaut, the way his German ancestors may (0r may not) have once done. That just makes you look silly and petty, especially given that there are also many Dutch immigrants to English-speaking countries who dropped the “lange ij” in favor of a more Anglicized “y.” It’s not a big deal, is it, in the grand scheme of things?
For the record, I don’t think you are a douchebag for being Canadian. Nor even for being Dutch-Canadian. I am not American and I like Canadians – I even have 2 Dutch-Canadian friends! However, I think you are a little over-sensitive about some things, and you are quite angry about this blog. I don’t know why. It makes me sad.
I tried looking around but came up naught. This seems like a good time to coin a new word:
Mesonym (n) middle name
from the Greek roots μέσος (mezos, middle) + ὄνομα (ónoma, name)
A person who goes by their middle name is mesonymous.
The state of going by one’s middle name is mesonimity.
koldijk,
For the record, I didn’t say you are a douche, I said you seemed like a douche. See hamel in #33 for elaboration.
Here, I’ll use it in a sentence:
“We didn’t realize Natalie was mesonomous, so we were all surprised when her mother called her ‘Hildegard’—her given name.”
how do you know that I am, in fact, a douche? Have you ever met me?
I’d say you got off to a bad start, with every comment to date.
Milton: you have well and truly earned your invitation to the first Marmot’s Hole Barbecue. Except that you spelled mesonymous correctly in comment 34, but as mesoOymous in comment 35.
Were there any mesonymous U.S. presidents?
I’m down. As long as grilled marmot’s hole isn’t on the menu.
I guess that makes me the first person to misspell the word.
There were two:
Calvin Coolidge was born John Calvin Coolidge
Woodrow Wilson was born Thomas Woodrow Wilson
Here’s some fun presidential name trivia:
-The “S” in Harry S Truman didn’t stand for anything.
-The first American President to have a middle name was John Quincy Adams.
-Two presidents had different names at birth than when they were presidents. Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe III and Gerald Ford was born Leslie Lynch King Jr.
-Only one American president had two middle names: George Herbert Walker Bush.
How about hairy, sweaty balls engorged with blood?
Mission accomplished!
With apologies to Justice Stewart, I know it when I see it.
The nearest I can think of is the Destroyers for Bases agreement with Britain. But that probably wasn’t the point koldijk was trying to make.
I don’t know of anyone in France, Belgium etc going directly to the US or UK for compensation, but there’s bound to be some, just because there are a lot of people in Europe. Lot’s of people in liberated Western Europe received compensation from their own governments for damage that was caused by the US or UK, particularly the bombings. And some people had to fight many years to get that compensation.
The school in Copenhagen that was bombed by the RAF would be a case in point. Around 100 mostly schoolgirls were killed and the relatives had to campaign for compensation up until the 1960′s. As far as I know though, the RAF did contribute, organizing an airshow in Copenhagen just after the war, some of the proceeds of which went to the victims. The RAF of course had no problem admitting that bombing a kindergarten and girls’ school with incendiary bombs was a mistake. I’m not sure the same can be said about Wolmido. But then the RAF were never quite as good at “shock and awe” as the Americans.
Ahmadinnerjacket has been trying to get compensation for the 1941 UK/USSR invasion of Iran, but I doubt Iranians felt particularly liberated by this at the time.
If you have to ask how someone knows that you are factually a douche, you may be a douche . (With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy)
hamel, et al
Here’s a question: what do you call a person who goes by their initials?
For instance, if a person’s name is John James Smith, he would introduce himself as J.J. Smith.
Would that just be an acronym?
I’m not willfully mesonymous. I’m merely antiprotonymous about by name . . . not to be mistaken for anteprotonymous, which would be rather oxymoronic of me.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Nothing hard to comprehend. It’s usually what you see is what you get around here. Or, what you get precedes what you see more often than not.
In fact there is a Korean saying for most of the responses – 뻔할 “뻔” – excuse me for the extent of the jadedness I am feeling.
milton @38:
One U.S. president fits into two of the categories you mentioned, to wit:
and
Ulysses S. Grant was born Hiram Ulysses Grant, making him both mesonymous and allogenonymous. ^^
J.J. Smith is proto-acronymous, I suppose.
JefferyHodges, if you’re so antiprotonymous why do you go by “JefferyHodges” on Marmot’s hold and “Horace Jeffery Hodges” on OFK? Huh? Huh? Explain that.
UT Videam, thanks for point that out. I forgot about good ol’ U.S. Grant.
MrMao, my thoughts exactly.
So I guess this means that someone’s last name is an opisthonym, and a person who goes by his last name is opisthonymous. I had a friend back in university who was opisthonymous. It’s a bit unsettling to call an opisthonymous individual by his protonym, especially when one is in the habit of using only an opisthonym.
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