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English Teacher in Daegu under suspicion for sexual misconduct with students

A native English teacher in his 50′s has already resigned and left for Japan before the police could prevent his departure – 2.5 hours late! Two boys in 6th grade say that the teacher locked the door during school time and took their clothes off and touched them. There have been previous incidents when other children came forward and told their home room teacher that he had put them on his lap and put his hands down their shorts, but the English teacher denied it. The Korean news link here

  • http://www.racecarcreative.com seouliva

    here we go again! or not?
    i see this going two ways:
    1) Koreans are desensitized to the constant sensationalism of ‘foreigners dun bad’
    or
    2) Another month of evil stares on the subways.
    Considering Korea just lost their place in the World Cup (an entertaining run at that), there’s been a lot of pouting going on, and this may just be the event this nation needs to re-direct their anger. again. or not.

  • Craash

    Great! Now the media will start portraying all foreign teachers of being pedo’s again for the next -how many months/years??

    We are taught not to generalize, but Korean people DO generalize, and this one bad apple is going to tarnish all foreign teachers in Korea, and have all foreign teachers “suspected of being too passionate towards the students”.

  • http://sonoficeberg.wordpress.com/ Iceberg

    I’d say a Korea-fleeing, little-boy-diddling man in his 50s is a pretty legitimate place to direct one’s anger.

  • beatnix

    Are you saying that Americans don’t generalize ethnic and race groups? Tell that to the hundreds of middle easterners who were beaten or killed after 9/11.

  • Craash

    re# 3 (who just posted his reply and miraculously got a +5 in points within 20 seconds ?????

    Its fine to direct you anger towards a Korea-fleeing, little-boy-diddling man in his 50s – however since he is not here – guess where the anger will be directed?

    As I said Now the media will start portraying all foreign teachers of being pedo’s again for the next -how many months/years?? – and that doesn’t deserve a -1 (in thumbs down).

    The strangest thing about this, is that there had been “previous incidents”, but because the teacher denied it, he was still left alone to lock the children in his classroom and strip them off and continue doing what he wanted to with the boys.

  • http://justinkraus.blogspot.com justinkraus

    I’m more surprised that a 50 year old could get an English teaching job in the first place. These days the Korean school system likes their foreign teachers to be young and dumb not old and slimy.

  • yuna

    Two things the article points out are :

    1. 학교.경찰 늑장대응 ‘도마 위
    The late response of both the school and the police is under scrutiny.

    이 학교는 원어민 교사를 추천을 통해 자체적으로 채용해, 이력조차 제대로 알기 힘든 상황입니다.

    [녹취:학교 관계자]

    “교육계 있는 분들과 검증 절차를 거쳤고 소개를 받아서 채용한 것으로 알고 있는데 사실 서울을 제외하고 (지방에서) 원어민을 구하기가 정말 힘듭니다.”

    며칠 동안 쉬쉬하던 학교 측은 뒤늦게 사태의 심각성을 깨닫고 사건을 교육청과 원스톱지원센터에 알리는 등 수습에 나섰습니다.

    2. The recruitment procedure – how hard it is to get English native speaker teachers outside Seoul

  • hardyandtiny

    “I’m more surprised that a 50 year old could get an English teaching job in the first place. These days the Korean school system likes their foreign teachers to be young and dumb not old and slimy.”

    You’re way behind the trend curve.

  • cm

    Yuna, you didn’t mention this

    며칠 동안 쉬쉬하던 학교 측은 뒤늦게 사태의 심각성을 깨닫고 사건을 교육청과 원스톱지원센터에 알리는 등 수습에 나섰습니다.

    The school didn’t take the charges of sexual abuses seriously and tried to cover it up.

    Those school officials in charge should be punished, and I hope they find this guy and put his ass in jail.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    Honestly one thing that always shocks me about this kind of events is how mild the reaction of parents is: if some asshole dared to touch my kid i’d have that person kidnapped so i could torture him into some sense and i’d really like to see what judge in what country (well with the possible exception of the UK or Spain) would treat me as anything different than a hero

  • yuna

    cm. Thanks, I was lazy. I thought that went under the first point anyway.

    The verb 쉬쉬하다 = do “sh” “sh” = hush it up, = could be construed as cover it up.
    Not to pee pee or wee wee.

    Trying to avoid getting blamed and shunning responsibility are the mal of the Korean society at every level in all facets. It’s such 눈가리고 아웅 which comes back and bites our arse.

  • Max

    I’d say a Korea-fleeing, little-boy-diddling man in his 50s is a pretty legitimate place to direct one’s anger.

    …and goodness knows there’s a lot of anger to go around, so let’s get to finger pointing. Question is are we worried about making sure Korean kids stay safe or looking some ideal foreign English teacher pedo to whip up nationalist xenophobic sentiment?

    Keep in mind that sexual and physical abuse of Korean children is endemic in the education system, which unfortunately is in deep denial of the problem. True there are many concerned Korean parents who have raised their voices against the continued abuse of their children but they have only seen the status quo continue. This article talks about the “serious loopholes” in the Korean education system that allow Korean teachers who have already molested and rape children return to their positions:
    http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=001&aid=0002596104

    Some may recall the Korean teacher who stripped her kindergarten student naked and locked her up outside. No talk of sexual abuse on that one, presumably stripping kids naked at school wasn’t considered odd for a Korean kindergarten. http://www.ohmynews.com/NWS_Web/view/at_pg.aspx?CNTN_CD=A0000822284&PAGE_CD=12

    I may have missed it, but I don’t recall much concern at the Marmot’s Hole when Rep. Choi Young-hee announced that

    Teachers committing sexual crimes have been let off with just light punishments, Rep. Choi Young-hee of the Democratic Party said Thursday.

    A total of 124 sexual crimes involving elementary and secondary school teachers were reported to the education authorities between 2006 and 2009. Among them, 47 involved prostitution, 43 were sexual harassment and five were rape cases.

    However, only eight teachers (6 percent) were given prison sentences, while 31 were not indicted and 28 received suspended sentences.

    “It seems that teachers were exempt from punishment through out-of-court settlements with the parents of the victims,” Rep Choi said.

    “Moreover, each city and provincial education offices, which were supposed to strictly punish those teachers, gave only verbal warnings. Only 21 teachers were fired for sexual violence.”

    According to data collected by the lawmaker, nearly 60 percent of the assailants were merely warned or reprimanded.

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/07/117_53165.html

    As for young Korean students who end up in athletics, pity their fate. According to a research study by the human rights commission and Ewha Univ. the majority of them (63.8%) will end up experiencing sexual violence. Now that is something to get upset about, but again not too much traction on that issue.

    But as for targeting foreign teachers for the potential sex abuse of children –which according to government officials and the media they are especially prone to because of their non-Koreanness — business is booming! But don’t expect any statistics like with the Korean teachers. It’s as if it’s a matter of ‘who needs stats when we know the foreigners are up to no good?’

    From 2006-2009 Rep. Choi says there were 124 sex crimes by Korean teachers against Korean students in Korea. Ok, so how many foreign teachers were guilty of that offense during that period? An answer would direct attention back to focus on protecting children (where it should be) and the creation of a non-discriminatory plan to tackle a deeply-rooted problem.

  • pixel

    Well, I’m glad to see that the enhanced screening techniques have been so effective at keeping out more swirly-faced predators. I wonder what new requirements for E2 visas will come of this.

  • truemoboy

    Hey Craash,

    Go ahead and reread this comment of yours:

    “We are taught not to generalize, but Korean people DO generalize”

    Notice anything funny? I had a good laugh. Thanks.

  • silver surfer

    This is now the second bona fide case of a foreign English teacher molesting students in Korea I’ve seen reported. Very sad to see the first one (also posted on the Marmot’s Hole) wasn’t a one-off.

    Ironically, it seems the media hype about ESL teachers is long past its peak. Perhaps because what they were really upset about was sex between consenting adults and they’re no longer much bothered about that.

  • Hannara

    korean people don’t seem to understand why a man would molest a male child because it is a very rare thing in korea.. or not really reported because of the insensitive of korean people about boy pedos. Whatever it is we need to catch this guy and bring him to justice. But unfortunately korean justice system is so retarded that it would be better if he is arrested in the states. In korea he will probably get 2 years or something in jail but in the states i would bet at least 10 years.

  • cm

    #14. I quickly glanced through all the on-line media prints today, and I couldn’t find any articles about this case. The story seems to be buried amongst the headlines. I’m not saying this may not change soon. But for now, not much going on. Actually there are far more stories of Korean on Korean sexual crimes reported, including this one about the 50-ish Korean teacher who is accused of sexually molesting five grade school children in Gwangju.

    http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/society/society_general/429312.html

  • Max

    @13 More AIDS tests, that’ll catch all the bad ones. lol. God forbid the language academies and recruiting agencies be required by law to conduct proper background checks in the home countries. It’s not like all those native English speaking countries don’t have outstanding background check agencies to check and double-check every single recruit before he/she arrives in Korea. But that would cut into the profit margin too much and put responsibility on the system that negligently places any warm white body in a teacher’s role.

    @14 While the allegations are serious, at this point they are just that. What makes this a “bona fide case of a foreign English teacher molesting students in Korea”? And what is the second case you are referring to?

  • Hannara

    #16. Actually it is on every major portal site such as naver daum an nate.. Those are the three biggies that people get their news from but it doesn’t seem to generate that much anger among koreans. They don’t seem to understand why a man would touch a boy…

  • Pvrhye

    If the allegations are true, I hope this dude chokes and dies.

  • Max

    @18 Well, there’s a pretty big difference between not understanding and not wanting to understand.
    http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LPOD&mid=tvh&oid=130&aid=0000010502

    I think the Marmot said it best when he said: “Remember — Just Because You’re a Guy Who Likes To Have Sex With Teenage Boys Doesn’t Make You Gay.” http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/07/11/remember-just-because-youre-a-guy-who-likes-to-have-sex-with-teenage-boys-doesnt-make-you-gay/

    Besides, men wanting to “touch a boy,” as you put it, is part and parcel of world history. Korea is certainly no exception. Take a look at Y.G Kim & S.J Hahn’s, “Homosexuality in ancient and modern Korea.”
    http://www.asylumlaw.org/docs/sexualminorities/Korea022806.pdf

  • http://populargusts.blogspot.com/ bulgasari

    It’s unfortunate he was able to escape. That the response of the school was slow (or non existent, at first) isn’t particularly shocking, especially considering what happened at an elementary school in Daegu not so long ago.

    @14:
    There have been more cases than two (but not many more) involving foreign teachers molesting Korean students:

    On October 12, 2007 it was reported that a 24 year-old American English teacher had been booked but not detained for molesting a six year old student at the Seoul hagwon where he worked on September 19. He strongly denied it, but CCTV video was entered as evidence.

    This January 17, 2008 it was reported that a 39 year-old teacher from New Zealand teaching at a hagwon in Haeundae in Busan had been arrested for regularly putting his hands down the pants of a seven year-old girl during class time. As per the Marmot, “According to police, the Kiwi, identified as “T,” moved the alleged victim’s chair to a corner of the classroom so he could molest her without the other children in the class knowing.”

    On April 25, 2008 a single article reported that on March 18 a 32 year-old Canadian teacher at ‘S’ hagwon in Bupyeong-gu, Incheon molested a 9 year old student in the classroom. He confessed after seeing CCTV footage and, saying he did it accidentally after drinking too much makkeolli, and appealed for mercy. As he was working on a tourist visa, his hagwon was fined 4 million won for hiring him.

    In these cases the ultimate fate of the teacher was never reported, unlike the most reported case of molestation: On January 14, 2009, it was reported that a 41 year-old Canadian teacher was being investigated on allegations of molesting three 8 year old girls at a citizens’ center in Seong-dong in Seoul the previous October. On February 12, it was reported that a warrant had been issued for his arrest. On July 3, 2009, however, KBS (in an article wonderfully titled “‘막가는 외국인 영어강사’ 환각 수업에 성추행”) reported that he “was cleared for lack of evidence” the week before.

    As for “the media hype about ESL teachers [being] long past its peak”… that’s not really true. After a Korean-Americans who was wanted for murder by the FBI was caught for drug use in March after working at a hagwon, the media had a field day, with several editorial/articles appearing. I translated a few of them. Don’t want to hit the spam filter, but if you google these titles, you can find the translations:

    “The Seriousness of Foreign Teachers’ Ugly Double Lives Cannot Be Measured”
    “The country where murderers and drug criminals teach English”
    “It Doesn’t Matter Even if English Teachers are Criminals?”
    “Will Choi Young-hee’s bills be passed?”

    Also, after the Na-young incident came to light last September and the media and government started looking at new measures/for scapegoats, three different national assembly representatives targeted foreign teachers, in one case calling them “especially potential child molesters,” despite Na-young having been raped by a Korean (details, details).

    http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/11/on-this-list-may-be-21000-e-2-visa.html

    So yeah, media hype about ESL teachers is never that far away and only needs the right opportunity to reappear.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    it’s good to see the only thing you folks are concerned about is yourselves. korea needs to do away w the ET. would clean up quite a bit of trash like the trahs talkers here. now tremble and shake as you reach for that button.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    here’s another foreigner in asia accused of molesting boys. this one is from the nyt.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/world/asia/08thai.html

    ‘BUT THAI MEN MOLEST TOO!!!’ cried max, the ET

  • iwshim

    Teaching kids in Korea seem precarious at best.
    To all the whiners about AIDS tests and police background checks – why not charge more per hour for your inconvenience?
    My clean health check and clean (certified) police background check is not a job requirement, it is a job entitlement. I am more than happy to see the ‘transient teacher’ go the way of the dinosaur.
    Shame on Korea for hiring anyone to teach their kids ‘good’ English. The person involved disserves a right to fair trial; however, it seems as if the Korean police did not give him this opportunity.
    The courts are fair and respectable – however, expensive.
    If you teach kids, keep the unforeseen costs in mind and get paid the hazard pay.

  • Max

    @21

    Those articles about actual cases of abuse by foreign teachers is very much appreciated.

  • 8675309

    Max, none of your stats are noteworthy b/c not one of them involve a foreigner. (Korean on Korean crimes lack the sensationalism and outrage among Koreans that foreigner on Korean crimes inherently generate.) That said, it’s fascinating how the expats here are so quick to take the side of, defend and immediately identify with some 50-year-old pedarast scumbag whose very action of fleeing is suspect. I guess birds of feather do flock together!

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    ‘That said, it’s fascinating how the expats here are so quick to take the side of, defend and immediately identify with some 50-year-old pedarast scumbag whose very action of fleeing is suspect. I guess birds of feather do flock together!’

    yep, they’re more interested in the rights of accused child molesters than they are w the victims.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    yep, they’re more interested in the rights of accused child molesters than they are w the victims.

    Pawi if Koreans can be reprimanded for something that would be for being way too tolerant and hospitable with the waegookin ssoregi i really don’t know what’s the problem with this people (i mean the expat community)

    They could try to pull some kind of their usual behaviour here in the Alabama/Iran of Europe and see if they manage to live to tell

  • Max

    Max, none of your stats are noteworthy b/c not one of them involve a foreigner. (Korean on Korean crimes lack the sensationalism and outrage among Koreans that foreigner on Korean crimes inherently generate.)

    Well, that’s just the point isn’t it? Should an incident of child abuse be an opportunity to discharge visceral outrage against foreigners or to work on a solution to protect children?

    I can see from your response what your answer is with the “birds of feather” remark. I think it’s unfortunate that you find this a Korean/foreigner issue to “take sides” on — unfortunately this is usual way to keep forgetting about the kids.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    it’s good to see the only thing you folks are concerned about is yourselves. korea needs to do away w the ET. would clean up quite a bit of trash like the trahs talkers here

    Korea indeed needs somethin like the Night of the Long Knives to solve their low-quality immigration issues…OOOPPSS ;)

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    I don’t know if it’s more tinder to the fire but wtf?

    http://www.timesleader.com/news/South_Korean_man_charged_with_sexual_assault_in_Nanticoke_07-01-2010.html

    Conduct of an ajosshi working at a religion themed thrift store? Perhaps the man has mental issues?

  • http://www.xanga.com/wangkon936 WangKon936

    gangpeh,

    You assume that ppl here would know something about the Night of the Long Knives…. hahaha.

  • Sonagi

    That said, it’s fascinating how the expats here are so quick to take the side of, defend and immediately identify with some 50-year-old pedarast scumbag whose very action of fleeing is suspect. I guess birds of feather do flock together!

    Which comments are you referring to?

  • CactusMcHarris

    #30,

    Maybe pink triangles would be welcome in Korea?

    #32,

    Is there a reason why you think some of us wouldn’t? And Gangpeh’s reference would be applicable if he didn’t reference foreigners. I could be wrong, but I think the NOTLK was an internal cleansing of the NSP, wasn’t it? Isn’t that when the Brownshirts and their leader Rohm were done away with?

    Wouldn’t this get more press if he was Catholic, too?

  • Sonagi

    We are taught not to generalize, but Korean people DO generalize

    Fixed it for you. Generalizing isn’t a bad thing. It is one way we organize information and make sense of the world around us. Overgeneralization is a bad thing.

  • cm

    “Korean on Korean crimes lack the sensationalism and outrage”

    So you assume. The sexual abuse/murder of children have been on the news every night. For instance, education and awareness on sexual abuses in schools have probably contributed to more people reporting on this type of crime (rather than crime as seen increasing on the surface).

    http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=shm&sid1=102&oid=214&aid=0000146329

    I don’t know where you get your news. Oh right, you probably strictly get them from foreigner bloggers on Korea.

  • Sonagi

    The only victims in this case are the boys, not expats worried about a backlash. I hope the man is caught and extradited.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    Cactus: yes it was, Rohm was the leader of the so called SA, in very short words the rank and file hooligans of the nazi party who basically were plotting a second revolution (Rohm wanted to be in Hitler’s place) as they accused the nazi of selling out to the power that be.

    It didn’t help the SA cause the fact most of their leaders were pretty much openly gay…

    anyway snark aside i don’t anybody can accuse 867etc. of restraining from criticising Koreans (or anybody in general) and he’s written some effective pieces about the fundamental lack of a serious security culture in Korea, something that is indeed undeniable.

    I can’t help though noticing a total lack of empathy for the victims plight on the side of the expats, as the crimes committed by expats were entirely the fault of the low screening/security standards of Korea.

    That, combined with a stark refusal to admit that a very high percentage of the Western foreigners in Korea are indeed ingan ssoregi

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    gangpe, lol!

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    ‘I can’t help though noticing a total lack of empathy for the victims plight on the side of the expats, as the crimes committed by expats were entirely the fault of the low screening/security standards of Korea.’

    like i said, they’re only interested in themselves. that and defending an accused child molester who fled to japan. btw, why did he flee to japan if he’s innocent? ssuregi, indeed.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    Well, that’s just the point isn’t it? Should an incident of child abuse be an opportunity to discharge visceral outrage against foreigners or to work on a solution to protect children?

    OK, then shouldn’t you get busy on working on a solution to protect children instead of kvetching about how this will affect you?

  • Max

    @41
    You might have missed my comment above @17 where I suggested real background checks. Such checks should be done by a local reputable background check agency should be conducted in the home country of applicants. They are costly, but effective – unlike AIDS tests and the bungling with apostilles and fake diplomas at the kimmi office. Such background checks should be standardized by the Korean gov, required by law and performed in conjunction with the local Korean consulate/embassy. No clean check, no visa. As for funding, Korean employers should pay. You could make applicants put up the cash first and get reimbursed after hire.

    And when did I this affects me? It doesn’t in any business sense. I never said I was an English teacher, you just presumed self-interest and then “kvetched” about what you perceived as me “kvetching”.

    I think I made clear the issue was that children are being abused.

    I suggest you follow your own advice and stop the “kvetching” and work on offering a solution yourself.

  • Hannara

    It’s true that high percentage of expats in korea probably don’t even have university degree. i wonder if they even graduated high school…

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    I never said I was an English teacher, you just presumed self-interest and then “kvetched” about what you perceived as me “kvetching”.

    Ha! Like hell you are not an English techer.

  • Max

    Ha! Like hell you are not an English techer [SIC].

    Well, I certainly wouldn’t be ashamed to admit it if I were but I’m afraid you’re mistaken. (Looks as if you could use one with your spelling though.) Besides, what has that got to do with the points I’ve made? It’s surprising the lengths some people will go to to avoid discussing an issue and the spite they throw up as a blind as they do.

    Why are you so loathe to discussing a possible solution to child abuse by teachers since you brought it up? I’ve made a suggestion concerning foreign recruitment. How about you take a stab at the domestic issue? Are you in favor of Rep. Choi’s bill for Korean teachers? How do we address issues like Teacher “Min” who was twice convicted for sexually assaulting and raping students?
    http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=001&aid=0002596104

    Convicted Teacher Caught Raping Students

    A temporary teacher at a middle school in North Chungcheong Province was arrested for raping and molesting female teenagers, police said Wednesday. He had previously been convicted on seven counts of sexual assault and other crimes.

    Police said the contract-based teacher, identified as Min, sexually assaulted an unidentified middle school student in February at a motel in the province.
    . . . He is also accused of molesting another teenage girl at a karaoke bar the following month, police said.

    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/05/117_42811.html

    I’ll see if you have anything worth responding to down the line.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    the issue is a foreign english teacher molesting kids and this max wants to change the subject to korean teachers. ssuregi, indeed.

  • Max

    @47
    As I’ve said several times above, the issue is (or at least should be) about protecting children from being abused.

  • yuna

    This time Hankyoreh reports of a Korean teacher in his 50′s accused of molesting five female students over a three months period at his middle school in Kwangju. The students claim he felt up their chest and butt in classroom and on the roof area of the school building. He also denies the charges but he does admit to putting some on his lap while consoling them (from crying or physical hurt caused by fighting). The police are investigating if there had been previous instances and if there had been an attempt of a cover-up by the school. The school has released him of his duties, and are considering other measures depending on the result of investigation.

    I think the reason that the English teachers *seem* to get more attention than they warrant is simply because it’s easy to point fingers and deal with it. Native English teachers are relatively a recent phenomenon, an extra activity on top of the main curriculum. It’s not compulsory by any means to sustain this system especially if it becomes more trouble than it’s worth.

    However, it’s not very beneficial to keep pointing fingers if one actually wants to keep the system because it works to keep the potentially good teachers away because Korea gets a reputation for regarding the native English teachers with even less respect over the other Asian countries (though they have a reputation in pretty much all Asian countries), and other potential teachers might be put off by the thought of working and hanging with other expat pedos.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    Why are you so loathe to discussing a possible solution to child abuse by teachers since you brought it up?

    No, you are the one who brought it up. I merely asked you to keep up with your own standards when you said this should be a chance to deal with child abuse instead of fingerpointing.

    I’ve made a suggestion concerning foreign recruitment.

    Appaearing only after a very lengthy tu quoque fingerpointing/bitching, your “suggestion” is in fact more bitching about the ineffectiveness of the current system with an oblique reference to what could be done. Your first suggestion was made only after I prodded you about actually working on the solution. (I like the suggestion, btw.)

    How about you take a stab at the domestic issue?

    No thanks. I’m not the one going around self-righteously declaring what people should and should not care about.

  • Sonagi

    He also denies the charges but he does admit to putting some on his lap while consoling them (from crying or physical hurt caused by fighting).

    He admits this? I’ve only ever seen a kid on the lap of a staff member once. In full view of others in the office, my principal was holding an emotionally disturbed first grader who has daily outbursts. I can’t imagine parents of any nationality would be comfortable with the notion of their teen or preteen child on the lap of a teacher.

  • Sonagi

    and other potential teachers might be put off by the thought of working and hanging with other expat pedos.

    Speaking as an ex-expat teacher, a fear of working with expat pedos did not factor into my decision to leave Korea.

  • Max

    @49

    Finally, a little sane discussion. Thanks for the comment Yuna.

    I am very much in agreement with your statement that “[i]t’s not compulsory by any means to sustain this system especially if it becomes more trouble than it’s worth.” I think that’s the direction we are headed at present. And by all means, if Korea doesn’t want them: send the teachers home. (The USFK “necessary evil” issue all over again?) What’s troubling, however, is that the force behind the impulse to target foreign teachers seems to be simply because they are non-Korean.

    @50

    If thinking people should care about child abuse makes me self-righteous then that’s a label I can live with. Thanks. Question is what sort of label suits someone like you with all that education and bi-cultural insight who has time enough to waste flaming people on the internet but can’t be bothered to give a shit about child abuse.

  • cm

    “I think the reason that the English teachers *seem* to get more attention than they warrant is simply because it’s easy to point fingers and deal with it.”

    No. I think they seem to get more attention because if news of foreigner news gets printed in Korean news, immediately the flag gets raised in the expat bloggers in Korea, and the expat defensive mechanism kicks in. There maybe two stories about some ESL teacher molesting kids, vs thirty stories about Korean teacher molesting kids. It’s the two stories that the expats will pay more attention to because they may get effected directly. Where as the stories about Korean teachers molesting kids is just another day in Korea .

  • Granfalloon

    I cannot understand how expats’ complaining about unfair perceptions in Korean society somehow equates to “defending” pedophiles. Just don’t get it. I mean, the writing is on the wall, folks. Look no further than Hannara’s comments at #44. Can we please allow expats to disagree with this without accusing them of supporting pedophilia? I don’t think I’m asking for too much here.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    when an ET is accused of a serious crime, the ET community goes berserk. their concern is w the accused and not w the victims.

    ’2) Another month of evil stares on the subways.’ seouliba

    ‘Great! Now the media will start portraying all foreign teachers of being pedo’s again for the next -how many months/years??…Its fine to direct you anger towards a Korea-fleeing, little-boy-diddling man in his 50s – however since he is not here – guess where the anger will be directed?’ craash

    ‘…and goodness knows there’s a lot of anger to go around, so let’s get to finger pointing. Question is are we worried about making sure Korean kids stay safe or looking some ideal foreign English teacher pedo to whip up nationalist xenophobic sentiment?’ max

    ‘Perhaps because what they were really upset about was sex between consenting adults and they’re no longer much bothered about that.’ poster

    ‘@14 While the allegations are serious, at this point they are just that. ‘ ET max defending an accused child molester

    there’s your answer, gran falloon. the ET is only interested in himself and not the children.

  • Granfalloon

    Pawi,
    No where in any of those quotes do I see ANYTHING defending this Daegu pedophile. Not one word.

    It’s true I don’t see any words of consolation or sympathy for the young victims of this Daegu pedophile. I also don’t see any such consolation or sympathy from YOU, pawikirogii. Not one word.

    So, here ya go: I think it’s a shame those poor kids got molested. Better?

  • hardyandtiny

    “korean people don’t seem to understand why a man would molest a male child because it is a very rare thing in korea.. or not really reported ”

    I’d go with the “not really reported”.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    ‘@14 While the allegations are serious, at this point they are just that. ‘ ET max defending an accused child molester

    that’s defending the accused who fled to japan, gran. the ET cares only about himself.

  • Granfalloon

    I think what you mean to say, pawi, is that the ET cares only about ETs, which is a very different thing. It might even be true for a small number of them.

    If your point is that ETs immediately jumped to a discussion as to how this incident could potentially be a threat to all ETs before expressing proper grief for the children, your point is taken. I’m tempted to draw a connection to the Korean students in the US hiding in their apartments in the wake of the V-Tech massacre, awaiting a backlash that only ever happened in their own minds. But that might be a bit unfair. Apples and oranges.

    Also, don’t smear the expat just for coming from a society with a rule of law. In many Western countries, people are innocent until proven guilty. Saying that is not solidarity with criminals and miscreants. Especially since, as we can see RIGHT HERE ON THIS THREAD, it’s not difficult to get Korean people to believe outrageous things about ETs.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    your comparison w cho is fair but unfortunately, we don’t have enough data on the subject to conclude koreans only care about themselves. with ETs, we have quite a bit of evidence to suggest that when these accusations occur, the ET community rushes to stand w the accused and worries about how they’ll be effected. the man in this case fled to japan. why in the world would any ET want to defend him?

    innocent till proven guilty in the west? meh, on paper, perhaps. i’ll leave you w a comment made by oprah that met w great applause:

    ‘when a child accuses an adult of child molesting, i believe the child.’

    oprah is filmed in the west and her audience is large and mostly white.

  • beatnix

    ET in Korea are just feeling what other minorities feel back home. Asian/Americans have a word for this called “perpetual outsider”. African/Americans get profiled daily in the states. In college when I was driving two black friends home, I was pulled over by the police for some unknown reason. My car and our bodies were searched without reason or warrant, and we were only released when they didn’t find anything. Only explanation given to me was that we fit a description. About 6 years ago my black co-worker went to our place of work to retrieve his phone he had left in the office. When he came back out he was greeted by 4 armed officers who thought they had seen a breaking and entering by a black suspect. He had to wait handcuffed in the squad car for 40 min. until our boss came down to vouch for him. So “coming from a society with a rule of law” and “innocent until proven guilty” is a luxury for the rich and white in the States.

  • http://askakorean.blogspot.com thekorean

    If thinking people should care about child abuse makes me self-righteous then that’s a label I can live with.

    No, what makes you self-righteous is that you tell people that they should care about solutions for child abuse when you don’t even care all that much about it yourself (evidenced by a series of bitchings until I called you on it.) Especially when you are capable of coming up with a decent, level-headed solution when you put your mind to it.

  • cm

    “Especially since, as we can see RIGHT HERE ON THIS THREAD, it’s not difficult to get Korean people to believe outrageous things about ETs.”

    Subtract Pawi for a minute here, but what outrageous things about ET’s did “Korean people” said here in this thread?

  • 3gyupsal

    This incident was indeed a tragedy and things need to be done to stop like this in the future. A year or two ago Korean schools started demanding that ETs complete criminal background checks and do A.I.D.S. screenings. This was a step in the right direction since most jobs that involve working with kids requires that type of screening. When I got my job I used the criminal background check that was performed when I was in the states trying to get a job as a substitute teacher.

    There are a few other problems that need to be dealt with here though.

    Pawi mentioned something about how Oprah believes kids over adults when molestation is the issue. That is a good point, where were these kids parents? Why didn’t they take the kids out of the hagwon and call the police?

    Or with cases like these in public schools, why don’t public schools have guidance counselors who can act as advocates for kids in helping to get them legal support? Yes the guy who did this was foreign, but unfortunately the problem isn’t necessarily foreign teachers, the problems are multiple that add up to a major problem for students and children in general in this country.

    Let’s not forget that Korean students generally live in fear of getting beaten, berated, punched in the head, and embarrassed in public by their Korean teachers. In this type of environment where “nails that stick up, get pounded down,” its no wonder why teachers Korean or foreign can get away with the daily bullsh*t that they get away with, when the kids are under threat of physical assault or violence when they do complain about something.

    I mean seriously where can kids go to get help in Korea?

    http://asiancorrespondent.com/korea-beat/what-korean-parents-don-t-like-about-teachers

  • Yu Bum Suk

    While I’d like to think ‘innocent until proven guilty’ the allegations really don’t sound like the type of thing 5+ resentful 6th-grade boys would make up. I wonder if the Japanese police would arrest and extradict him? It’s been around 24 hours so he could even be on another plane heading somewhere else. Hopefully the kids will get the right kind of councelling about this. If that happened to my students I’d be beyond irate.

    So does anyone have a name and possibly photo of him? I’m in Daegu fairly often but can’t think of any 55yo American elementary teachers I know. At the very least it would be nice to let authorities in whatever town he’s from know and put him in the local newspaper.

  • Granfalloon

    cm:

    Hannara, comment #44. I’ll add that I don’t know Hannara, or his/her nationality/philosophy/politics. I’m willing to retract if I’m mistaken. But I take the comment more as an example rather than a critical case.

  • BigMike

    Maybe he can be returned for chemical castrasion and listen to this for 23 hours a day:

    I think I’m going Japanese
    I think I’m going Japanese
    I really think so

    And on the 24th hour: Jerry Faldwell’s sermon of the week.

  • Darth Babaganoosh

    Yes the guy who did this was foreign, but unfortunately the problem isn’t necessarily foreign teachers, the problems are multiple that add up to a major problem for students and children in general in this country.

    I’m in agreement here. It’s not a NET-molests-students problem, it is a TEACHER-molests-students problem… the teacher’s nationality is not the issue (despite people trying to make it the issue). If Korean children are going to be protected from pedos, the ENTIRE system needs to be looked at, not just the part about hiring-and-screening foreigners. Such screens have been in place for years now, and I don’t see them stopping the foreign pedos any (judging by recent news stories).

    Concentrating on only 4-5% of the pedo teachers in school is not going to protect Korean children in the end. Rep. Choi Young-hee’s bills in the Assembly looks at the other 95-96%, but they don’t help anyone until they’re passed, either.

    The children need advocates to speak for them. The children need an avenue that makes it easier to level charges against someone, an avenue that endruns around the school, so they can’t cover it up. The children shouldn’t be victimized again by the police or the media.

  • silver surfer

    @pawi

    It’s really not difficult to understand why people should want to distance themselves as much as possible from a crime as viscerally unpleasant as child molestation, nor is there any contradiction with concern for the children – rather the opposite if anything.

  • milton

    One day, Jane is late for work and as she leaves home, she forgets to lock the door. Meanwhile, Burglar Bob is on the prowl through her neighborhood. He finds the unlocked door and steals all of Jane’s jewelry. Who is to blame?

    Do we blame Jane for forgetting to leave her door unlocked? The local police for not doing a good enough job patrolling the town’s neighborhoods? Bob’s parents for raising a criminal son? Bob’s teachers, friends, and co-workers for not reporting that Bob had criminal tendencies and for not getting him the help he needed? Do we blame Bob himself for the criminal act he committed? Or, all of the above?

    Trick question. The blame falls on Bob and Bob alone. Bob has free will and no one forced him to enter Jane’s house and take her things, regardless of whether or not the circumstances facilitated the crime.

    In this pedophile case, the blame is 100% on the pedophile. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. No one else is to blame. Not at all. The guy made his choices of his own accord—no one put a gun to his head and forced him to dittle teenagers—and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, and then some. (Note that the school is guilty of trying to cover it up, but that’s a different crime).

    That said, times like these are times for reflection on how to improve the system as a whole so as to minimize these types of occurrences. In the Jane-Bob scenario, society needs to reflect on how it recognizes and reports incipient signs of criminal behavior; Jane needs to reflect on being more careful about locking the door; Bob’s parents might want to think about better ways to raise children; and the police might want to consider stepping up their neighborhood patrols. In the Daegu case, what must be considered are:

    -The Korean government should think about more effective ways to screen
    potential teachers and close loopholes (thought it’s almost impossible to tell latent pedophiles apart from the current population just by looking at them or reading a resume)
    -Korean schools might want to monitor teacher activities more closely
    -Korean society as a whole might want to question the efficacy of the current English teaching system and think about alternatives
    -Students might want to think twice about being alone in a room with a teacher
    -Parents might want to reflect on what types of activities they expose their children to
    -The police might want to think about better ways to catch predators like these and improve communication with immigration authorities

    And so on…

    For the record, as an avid and long-time reader of the Korean-language media, I don’t believe that the media over-sensationalizes the foreigner aspect of these stories. I think such feelings are more confirmation bias than anything else (for instance blogs like this report these stories more frequently since they are of interest to the audience, whereas stories of Koreans doing the same aren’t). That’s not to say there isn’t an anti-foreigner bias in the Korean media in general, but I don’t think it’s as apparent in these types of cases as it is in—say—articles about native English speakers getting busted for pot smoking (which can’t be complete without some official making derogatory comments about foreigners in general).

  • Granfalloon

    Milton:
    I agree with you in general, but I have these two things to add:
    1. Can’t help but think your parable would read differently if Jane left her six-year-old daughter alone in that unlocked apartment. Still, Bob’s a jerk, no argument.

    2. I’m very aware of the power of confirmation bias, which is why I’m so wary of Korean perceptions. I like to think I’m always willing to give every Korean person the benefit of the doubt, and not impose my own low standards on them. Nevertheless: COMMENT #44. Kinda hard to fault teachers for getting defensive with stuff like that floating around.

    What really burns me is, I’m not sure what Korean authorities could do to better screen NESTs. Gut the system? Take only certified teachers? Take only F-visa people? Only TESOL Master degrees? There is no perfect screen for something like this.

  • WeikuBoy

    Expats on an expat blog discussing how a crime alleged to have been committed by an expat will affect other expats (based on the actual past experiences of expats that there WILL be some effect)? Shocking!

    More than two years ago I (a “native” English-speaking attorney) offered to perform all of EPIK’s background checks. I was of course turned down, on the grounds that there was no budget for background checks. It is cheaper for Korea to put the burden on applicants to produce official-looking paperwork with official-looking apostilles. It costs Korea nothing. Until a student gets hurt.

  • milton

    1. Can’t help but think your parable would read differently if Jane left her six-year-old daughter alone in that unlocked apartment. Still, Bob’s a jerk, no argument.

    I think there’s a subtle distinction between being a negligent parent (which Jane would be guilty of) and being responsible for some horrible tragedy that befalls your child. Certainly Jane would feel guilty about what she did, and would blame herself, but I believe the moral blame for action lies with the individual who perpetrated the act. As in the other case, Jane didn’t force Bob to enter her apartment.

    What really burns me is, I’m not sure what Korean authorities could do to better screen NESTs. Gut the system? Take only certified teachers? Take only F-visa people? Only TESOL Master degrees? There is no perfect screen for something like this.

    I’m not sure either, and completely agree that there is no perfect screen. Even if they make immigration procedures stricter, pedophiles and other undesirables would still get through. One common feature many pedophile cases have is the shock those who surround the individual have when the allegations come to light. Pedophiles usually don’t match our stereotypes: they seem like ordinary people, and generally give no outward indication of their nefarious tendencies. In a lot of cases, they get caught on their first attempt at acting out their proclivities. The only real thing I can think of is closing the “background check loophole,” and maybe taking more time to screen the candidates (like WeikuBoy’s suggestion). Resume and essays can say a lot about a person.

  • R. Elgin

    I noticed today that there were two police officers walking through the local elementary school and a police car cruising around the grounds. I think they are *now* trying to make their presence known. All the local adjuma that I know have mentioned this school safety issue as well. I am glad to see the officers even though they looked at me like I was a two-headed alien.

    This will definitely get more attention but I do not know if it will last.

  • yuna

    Leaving hagwon and private teaching aside (more responsibility to the individuals) I think they should go for quality not quantity.
    It is a near impossible task to try and fill every single school in the country with a native English teacher – if they are still going ahead with that policy.
    Get much fewer, better teachers in, pay more, get them to go around a number of schools in the area, make it a job that is hard to get, and that people can be proud of putting on their CV. Drastically cut down the number of jobs. It’s OK – kids don’t die from not learning English.

  • milton

    It’s OK – kids don’t die from not learning English.

    The way some Korean mothers act, you’d swear this wasn’t the case.

    Improving the quality of the stock of teachers by giving them incentive to come out here (other than the prospects of a job and roof over their heads) would be much better than the present policy of getting a warm body in every classroom. Korea should probably look to the Middle East—where it’s really tough to get a teaching job without qualifications and experience—for their model. Of course, that wouldn’t eliminate the pedo problem, but it would produce a group Koreans who can speak actual English (rather than Konglish) with relative fluency and probably eliminate some of the resentment Koreans feel towards native English teachers.

  • yuna

    Of course, that wouldn’t eliminate the pedo problem

    They can leave that bit to their stringent religious laws – extradition extradition and chopping bits off.

  • http://sonoficeberg.wordpress.com/ Iceberg

    It’s OK – kids don’t die from not learning English.

    True, but they are at a perceived disadvantage when it comes to test preparation. (Emphasis on “perceived”.)

    The solution to that problem is to deemphasize the importance of English in exams. Take it out of middle school, high school, and university placement exams completely, and leave in company evaluations that are particular to specific positions that require English skill — and those positions only.

    It’s a vicious cycle. Koreans think that they ALL need to learn English, not because they actually need English in any practical sense, but simply to achieve success by the guidelines set by Korean society.

    It’s time to change those guidelines.

  • yuna

    And also get rid of dubbing movies and dramas shown on TV and sub them. (at the risk of the voice actors union comprising of three silly voiced people going up-in-arms about it, tough titties)

  • Yu Bum Suk

    WeikuBoy, so true, but what grounds would you use? Christopher Paul Neil and that Kerry Aver guy (known as Grotto on Dave’s) had both been cleared to teach in Canada. What could you have found out that could have prevented their employment.

    Spending two teachers’ salaries on one background checker like you would likely prevent the employment of scores or hundreds of teachers who are simply poor workers, however.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    I think Iceberg and Yuna have it right: take out all these English tests now part of Korean school system tour de force in order to get rid of most of the Hagwon complex with 2 immediate great benefits:

    Helping the deleveraging process of the overstretched Korean consumer

    Send back home a considerable number of shitbags who shouldn’t be in Korea (or any other place other than a prison and/or forced labor camp)

    The money families would save could be invested sending their precious children to live in an English-speaking country for some time.

    Actually everything you need to learn English is residing for a while in an Anglo country and having a high exposure to American entertainment (sure there’s no lack of it).

    If in 6 months you’re not able to hold a conversation, you’re a retard.

    Families would save money, kids would learn to speak some real English, white trash would stay home: win-win-win situation

  • gangpehmoderniste

    PS

    Sorry Yuna i accidentally voted down your # 80 which was instead an excellent comment

  • seouldout

    Actually everything you need to learn English is residing for a while in an Anglo country and having a high exposure to American entertainment (sure there’s no lack of it). If in 6 months you’re not able to hold a conversation, you’re a retard.

    Spot on explanation of the goings on in Koreatown.

  • Guncheol

    If in 6 months you’re not able to hold a conversation, you’re a retard.

    Ah. So that would explain the Korean language skills (or, lack there of) of 95% of the native English speaking people in Korea…

  • yuna

    If I gave a rat’s arse about ratings (or even bothered to look at them) I wouldn’t be commenting on the blog, full stop. I’ve got the 주인장’s thumbs up – at least I did when he offered me to be a guest poster. That’s enough for me.

    I don’t think you even need to go live in an Anglo country, as I gave example of the Swedes who can just speak English (most of them have never lived in an Anglo country) whereas a lot of Germans still cannot speak English.

    Though I never understood the concept of Koreatown, I don’t think they are for people who want to learn how to speak the language in six months. In London area at least it’s just an equivalent of North London (Jewish and Japanese), Earls Court(Aussies and Kiwis, though less so due to rise in price), South Kensington (French) etc etc. i.e. convenience of shared information and food etc.

  • Darth Babaganoosh

    I think Iceberg and Yuna have it right: take out all these English tests now part of Korean school system tour de force in order to get rid of most of the Hagwon complex

    I agree it would be best, for nearly all involved, but it will never happen. It’s a money-making machine and for any such industry that brings in so much of of the green, there’s no way the [publishers and testing] companies involved will ever let it happen.

  • Sonagi

    Trick question. The blame falls on Bob and Bob alone. Bob has free will and no one forced him to enter Jane’s house and take her things, regardless of whether or not the circumstances facilitated the crime.

    With sufficient evidence, the police would arrest Bob, and the fact that the doors were unlocked would not be a mitigating factor. Jane’s insurance company, however, might judge Jane guilty of neglect and refuse to cover the loss. Likewise, parents might sue school districts for neglect owing to the actions of one of their teachers.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    @ # 86: And then we go back to the issue of Koreans being overly educated in the wrong fields, while they still lack an extensive network of trade schools like Germany, which seems really odd in a country with such a strong industrial base.

    Lots of the things my wife family tells me remind me of our educational system (back when we had one) 40-50 years ago: a strong belief in the power of education and culture to emancipate lower class people.

    Still it is pleasant to be often able to talk about French movies, classical music and Medieval European history with some humble ajossi/ajumma, quite a stark contrast with the pervasive chav shit infesting most of the West.

  • yuna

    What Iceberg is proposing is an ambitious overhaul of the whole Korean education system i.e. shifting the emphasis of education from being a standardized measure of each indivuduals worth into actually teaching something (useful). I think this is the number one important issue in South Korea at this moment in time, never mind what Obama says.
    One step at a time, I think. Reduce the target number of native English teachers in schools, and let the English fever die out its natural death.

  • yuna

    Related (in Korean) is this parent’s lament over having to tell his primary school girl to “차조심 개조심 and *사람*조심” (be careful of cars, dogs and *people*) since the rise in the child sex crime (or the rise in recent reporting of it). His wife tells her child not to give help to anyone after hearing some child got abducted after being asked to help with carrying stuff. He is mainly talking about the way to and from school being so hazardous with quiet alleyways and construction sites.
    I would have thought they should be accompanied to school at that age, but I guess the reality is not easy.
    He says most schools have CCTV or 도우미 to look after them.

  • http://populargusts.blogspot.com/ bulgasari

    His wife tells her child not to give help to anyone after hearing some child got abducted after being asked to help with carrying stuff.

    Might be good advice. A girl was raped and murdered in Jeju-do three years ago after a man lured her to his house by asking her if she would read something for him (because he’d lost his glasses or something).
    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2874875

  • LetGoLetPeaceComeIn

    The Let Go…Let Peace Come In Foundation is a newly formed nonprofit with a mission to help heal and support adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse worldwide. We are actively seeking adult survivors who would be willing to post a childhood photo and caption, their story, or their creative expressions to our website http://www.letgoletpeacecomein.org. We need to “show” the world that we will no longer be silenced and that there are enough of us to make a difference. By uniting survivors from across the globe we can help provide a stronger and more powerful voice to those survivors who have not yet found the courage to speak out. Together we can; together we should; together we NEED to stand up and be counted. Please visit our site for more details on how you can send us your submissions.

    Thank you for everything you do!

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  • Granfalloon

    I’ve often thought we could get rid of 20-30% of the English teaching industry just by giving kids a choice as to what language they study. Educators would then rightfully expect more from their students, as they had made a choice to study that language.

    I realize expecting students to take ownership of their own education is a wacky idea in Korea, but the idea has some merit. The biggest problem to cutting back the English industry stems from profit losses in the private sector. Remember: every hagwon teacher you see is only here because a Korean person is making money.

  • R. Elgin
  • Pingback: It’s Not About US – This Time | Ulsan Culture and Living

  • aaronm

    @ Pawi,

    “when an ET is accused of a serious crime, the ET community goes berserk. their concern is w the accused and not w the victims. ”

    Replace ET with KA and you have the same thing for Virginia Tech.

    PS, I agree with you re getting ETs out of Korea. No more brain drain, no more sending our young people into the way of potential harm. Bring them home and we’ll send you the millions of illegal bodega shelf stackers and prostitutes you’ve dumped on western shores.

  • Max

    @95

    R.Elgin — confused by your use of the term “native English teacher” in your comment above. According to the article you cited the teacher in question — a Mr. Kang — is not a “native English teacher” but a regular Korean elementary school teacher. The article reads:

    Gwangju police in Gyeonggi yesterday sought an arrest warrant from a judge for a 50-year-old elementary school teacher surnamed Kang, on allegations he sexually molested five of his students. Kang is accused of forcibly hugging female students and groping their chests and buttocks inside a classroom and on the school’s rooftop.

    The school learned of the allegations after five students deposited a letter in the mailbox of the school’s infirmary on Monday.

    The school then informed the students’ parents that Kang’s alleged molestations occurred dozens of times over a period of three months. The parents requested a police investigation.

    During the police investigation, Kang admitted he had physical contact with students but “had no intention of sexually harassing them.” The school suspended Kang from work.

    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2922950

    Again, like the case of the foreign teacher who fled Daegu, thus far these are only allegations but it does highlight the fact that (as mentioned above) these sort of incidents are regular occurrences in the Korean school system.

  • R. Elgin

    I was confused as well “max” about the use of “native” in the article. It looks as if the JoongAng Ilbo people edited their online article to exclude the word “native”.

    I guess they think “English teacher” means “foreigner”.

  • Max

    I guess they think “English teacher” means “foreigner”.

    But the article you drew our attention to doesn’t mention any English teachers at all — neither are the terms “foreigner” or “native” used. It’s an article about Mr. Kang, a Korean elementary school teacher.
    http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2922950

    Are you saying there was a print version of the same article that called Mr. Kang a “native English teacher”?

  • seouldout

    Aaron, bring back the nasty nigel gravatar; that gravatar is perfect for these types of topics.

  • gangpehmoderniste

    I agree with you re getting ETs out of Korea. No more brain drain, no more sending our young people into the way of potential harm. Bring them home and we’ll send you the millions of illegal bodega shelf stackers and prostitutes you’ve dumped on western shores

    EHMMMMMMMMMM….. This is interesting:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/business/economy/07generation.html?ex=1294200000&en=2c4176a7869bbbc1&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=BU-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M157-ROS-0710-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click

    The most interesting part is where grampa of whiny Scotty says his grandson has a better future abroad. This kid, who thinks a job in manufacturing is below him will end up teaching in some shitty hagwon for 1.5 millions a month plus room&board (that means sleeping in the basement of the school and being fed 1 choco pie a day), i bet 10 euros on it.

    The times, they are a changin, some useless dirty old fart used to say

  • Darth Babaganoosh

    Again, like the case of the foreign teacher who fled Daegu, thus far these are only allegations but it does highlight the fact that (as mentioned above) these sort of incidents are regular occurrences in the Korean school system.

    Popular Gusts has posted stats from the last year. While they are not stats about students, exclusively, it basically comes down to 1000+ sexual molestations of children over the past year. Regular occurrences indeed. One can only hope the recent articles bringing them to light can motivate those in charge of protecting the Korean children (and teens) to start actually protecting them.

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    since many of you want to change the subject when it deals w one of your own ie going berserk, here’s a statistic about america and child sexual abuse: 80,000+ a year. take that, ET!

    http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/child_sexual_abuse

  • http://pawikirogii.blogspot.com pawikirogii

    ‘for 1.5 millions a month plus room&board (that means sleeping in the basement of the school and being fed 1 choco pie a day), i bet 10 euros on it.’

    gangpe, since a room here in the states will cost about 500 to 700 hundred dollars, the guy is making well over 2k a month almost tax free. add in the choco pies and that’s an additional 20 to 30 a month. the guy will have it made.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com setnaffa

    Is pawi in Japan right now?

  • seouldout

    gangpe, since a room here in the states will cost about 500 to 700 hundred dollars, the guy is making well over 2k a month almost tax free. add in the choco pies and that’s an additional 20 to 30 a month. the guy will have it made.

    And a wa wa washer.

    It’s the weekend, pawi. Had better get to the launderette before the few working wa wa washers and dra dra driers are taken. Beware the muggers.

  • Darth Babaganoosh

    since many of you want to change the subject when it deals w one of your own ie going berserk,

    If we talk about the pedo, you claim we care only about ourselves and nothing about the victims. So if we talk about the children and discuss changing the system to protect them, now we’re changing the subject and not talking about “one of our own” going berserk.

    I think you just say shit to hear yourself speak.

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  • iwshim

    Not sure if this is new.

    http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=shm&sid1=102&oid=079&aid=0002167802

    The related stories section seems intersting as well.

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  • Iang nio

    Update on the child molestation case in Daegu (my birth town). Child sexual abuse is making me want to throw up – it doesn’t matter whether they are teachers (Korean or something else), priests, pastors, nuns (yes! does exist as well…), doctors or anybody else in a position to abuse those entrusted to them. Orphanages, too, I am sure, are not exempt from these kinds of people.

    NSET who fled molestation accusations in 2010 extradited to Korea
    http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/04/nset-who-fled-molestation-accusations.html