Great piece by Andrei Lankov on Lee Myung-bak’s handling of the Cheonan sinking — here’s just a sample:
Is this game Machiavellian? Probably. But this author not merely enjoys the spectacle, but also approves of the government actions. For a while it appeared as if the North Korea policy of President Lee had been hijacked by the hard-line ideologues.
The recent events have shown that this is not the case. Calculating politicians are in command, and this is good. Smart manipulation are better than an honest war which seems to be the alternative to avert.
Read the rest on your own.
{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
From reading that article, it just reinforced what I already knew – and probably what many people already know.
President Lee is a very smart man and is very in control and knows how to handle the situation.
Revenge against North Korea will never happen and the North doesn’t care about the smaller things such as shipping lanes, etc as it won’t affect business as normal for the North.
The only thing left on the plate is to take the matter to the UN security council and since China and Russia both seem to be doubting the “official report” by South Korea, I could imagine any further action could be vetoed by either China or Russia.
Also as the article says the
South did not retaliate when
in 1968 when North Korean commandos attacked the Blue House
in 1983 they killed half of the South Korean Cabinet.
in 1987 Pyongyang agents blew up a civilian airliner.
in 2002 the deliberate ambush and killing in the west-sea-naval-battle
I guess this one will just be added to the list of unpunished NK crimes as the
“in 2010 the torpedoing of the warship the cheonan”
Replace ** with Pyongyang, and that shows LMB is indeed learning on the job, which isn’t a bad thing.
So how come all the Korea experts outside of Korea likes Lee Myung Bak and his performance, but Koreans like Yuna hate him and accuse him of being an unfair and mean hard liner toward the same minjok, wrecking every good thing with North Korea, and using this as an election ploy (or even possibly created this conflict by sinking the ship himself and blaming it on poor innocent North Koreans)?
Pro-Pyongyang leftist NGOs, taking advantage of ethno-nationalistic sentiment, have infiltrated South Korean society through the education system and more recently through the Internet. These groups use their mass media outlets and useful idiots to spread rumors and distort the truth and people buy into it because they are not taught basic critical thinking skills.
To clarify, the “uriminjokkiri” spirit they espouse is very appealing to the human psyche. I mean, who doesn’t want to think they are part of a special, virtuous, pure and innocent group who would live in a perfect utopia were it not for the evil barbarians who by the tragedy of geography have designs on your unspoiled paradise. Lo and behold, it’s the North and its agents and proxies in the South that are the main proponents of that line of thinking. Once you’ve bought into that nonsense, it’s not difficult to manipulate people into carrying out your agenda and fomenting distrust against the establishment.
Pro-engagement types in US and Canadian think tanks also (mistakenly IMHO) fault Lee for shutting down the Sunshine Policy. I’d say the blame for that lies entirely with the North.
I’m sorry to disappoint you but the education I got from South Korea was before your so-called “North Korean agents” had infiltrated into Korean education system, i.e. it was extremely anti-North, writing countless essays and drawing posters depicting the North as the devil incarnate, and always, the campaign to dob a spy in. I would say this parody kind of education in the South made me extremely weary, had the opposite effect and I asked the question, why am I getting this sort of education? Who’s behind this?
이창동, 문근영, 조국, 손석희, 김제동. These people are all your “pro-North” celebrities, much villified by the same kind of Koreans who the expats seem to be getting info from. Is Lee Changdong in need of some critical thinking lesson too?
There is still a bunch of hardliners in Korea who really do live on another planet, the McCarthy era of painting everyone “red-commies”, the young people just cannot and should not, abide that anymore.
The answer to your question cm, could be “So why was Kim Daejung so popular outside Korea during his time (until Bush came) to power?”
I was reading this and nodding, “Yep, Yep, reasonable”
until I read the very end,
at which point the cereal I was chewing on came sputtering out and hit the laptop screen. In the end, he’s not really machiavellian enough for us. It’s like he is a stuck record, a man with 2 brain cells which insist on stupid sound bites, It’s his “grand bargain” all again.
He must have a “to do list”
1. Grand Bargain
2.
Grand CanalFour Rivers3. Grand Sejong City
This was the kind of poster(although that’s quite second rate, mine was much better) I drew every other art lesson.
Why the Koreans hate 2MB is that 1.He got in as the least unpopular choice. 2. He was known to be corrupt (BBK, 김윤옥 발가락 반지 (toe ring incident) all which don’t even have search results anymore because they pulled the news off the internet so how can non-Koreans know about it especially if they have work in Samsung where they’re stuck in the museo of 지역감정 century) himself yet is indirectly responsible for driving a guy to his death 3.He gets found out making such stupid comments such as 지금은 곤란하다. 기다려 달라 i.e. his machiavellian maneuvers are second rate. 4.He invites jokesters such as Chun Doowhan for advice on North Korea to the Blue House. etc etc I don’t think he should be the least popular president in the history(fingers crossed), there have been many worse.
5. Heavy handling and repression of all candle-related activities.
6. The sole substantial voice of criticizing the government emanates only from one (toe) rag. He never does anything wrong according to the main news stream. People find it strangely reminiscent of days (they thought) long gone. Surely, it pongs of stagnation.
Yes, I was kinda afraid of this too. But like Milton I can’t help feeling disappointed at the same time that I am relieved. The only question now is when KJI or KJE will launch their next attack and how if ever we’re going to stop them.
Isn’t this just one of many examples where the public relations of this incident have been less than sterling?
Per #11, yes. This was obviously a bone-headed mistake. The man could simply make a phone call if he needed advice.
Again, Han-nara is not led by the best and I can only wonder how they got there. They are truly going to screw this country out of incompetence in governing.
Yuna, I don’t know what to make of you right now.
yuna wants to conflate being against communists with being a crooked blowhard from Wisconsin…
North Korea has also developed a special drink that can grow brain cells and stop skin from aging.
The North Koreans should send a supply to the Han-nara Party leaders since they really appear to need some help governing.
Yuna, when Roh the idiot was in power–you said he was a great man because he was clean and not corrupt.
You said he was a brilliant man who passed the bar exam and was an incredibly adept politician.
You said Roh was going to inspire Koreans to be greater than ever while also increasing trade, alms to the poor and peace to all of Korea.
I think Yuna–for at least a little while–you should stop commenting.
Yuna also blames LMB for Roh committing suicide. It’s a charge that I keep hearing over and over from quite a few number of Koreans. They also blame LMB for the economic crisis that hit Korea in 2008 and still continues to this day. Never mind that the entire world is doing poorly when it comes to the economy, and never mind that it was Roh Moo Hyun who pissed off and drove out the foreign investments out of South Korea with stupid policies that appealed to xenophobia and nationalism. It was Roh Moo Hyun and company who torpedoed the close relationship with the greatest ally South Korea has ever had, and sponsored the nuke projects of North Korea. Talking about Yuna’s charges of LMB being corrupt, is anybody in Korea clean, and therefore fit to be the president? Roh? He killed himself because he was found to be just as corrupt as anybody. A convenient miss of fact by Yuna?
“I’m sorry to disappoint you but the education I got from South Korea was before your so-called “North Korean agents” had infiltrated into Korean education system, i.e. it was extremely anti-North, writing countless essays and drawing posters depicting the North as the devil incarnate, and always, the campaign to dob a spy in. I would say this parody kind of education in the South made me extremely weary, had the opposite effect and I asked the question, why am I getting this sort of education? Who’s behind this?” – Yuna
Well, I was under that education too, so I know what you’re talking about.
But going overboard as it was, can you really blame the South Korean governments of the past when had to deal with:
in 1968 when North Korean commandos attacked the Blue House
in 1983 they killed half of the South Korean Cabinet.
in 1987 Pyongyang agents blew up a civilian airliner.
in 2002 the deliberate ambush and killing in the west-sea-naval-battle
-by Craash, post #2
Heck how did Craash miss the 1996 North Korean submarine invasion of Gangreung that resulted in dozens of South Korean deaths due to North Koreans fleeing on foot?
I’d rather listen to North Korean defectors like Hwang Jang-Yop and Kim Hyun-Hee. I rather believe them (that South Korea is infiltrated and filled with filth from the North), than some annoying North Korean apologists/useful tools like Kang Ki Gap.
I’d say keeping the Grand Bargain on the table is among the wisest things Lee can do for now. In my opinion, North Korea (the DPRK and the Kim Family Regime) is unreformable and must be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. The North Korean elite know this and are just stalling that end game. Keeping the Grand bargain alive as a theoretical way out for Pyongyang is politically sensible because Seoul and its allies have to deal with Chinese concerns that driving Kim into a corner will ignite real conflict.
I don’t think we of different opinions should be piling on yuna. Whatever the facts, she does serve as a barometer for a significant strain of thinking in Korea — one which played out in the polls on June 2.
Um, Roh was never convicted by the supreme court as a bona fide criminal. I would say that marks a pretty big difference. Also, it seems that you’ve forgotten already, let me remind you — 46 navy soldiers didn’t die under the watch of Roh’s regime. Where are we now? Let me remind you — 46 navy soldiers dead, and not a goddamn thing different except for a whimper and a complaint to UN security council that will go nowhere. And let me ask you, if LMB says to KJI “If you do this again, we will retaliate by force”, do you think KJI will stop attacking South Korea? If Roh’s NK policy was bad, LMB’s policy must be 10 times worse. That’s how I see it.
“Um, Roh was never convicted by the supreme court as a bona fide criminal. I would say that marks a pretty big difference”
And LMB was?? What is the difference? One (Roh) commits suicide because of feeling of guilt, the other (Lee) one is accused of killing the first guy, and the 46 sailors.
Right, JW… That’s why Roh killed himself… To avoid a trial…
And now you’re blaming 2MB for a Nork sneak attack.
You’re a real piece of work, you are… Shoddy; but rotten clear through…
Huh? Are you asking me LMB was ever convicted? Shiiieeeeet, come on CM, you gotta at least do your friggin WIKIPEDIA homework. And no, not the sanitized english version for god’s sake.
“In the first days of the campaign large parts of Seoul would be obliterated by North Korean artillery”
Ha! Lankov spreading early 1990′s propaganda.
So what would prompt the Norks to actually attack Seoul? Seems kinds like they’d only do that in response to a real invasion from the South…
Even KJI’s oldest boy (is he really a tranny?) isn’t crazy enough to try that… And the guys involved in firing the guns would need to be suicidal, too…
“So what would prompt the Norks to actually attack Seoul?”
North Korea has attacked South Korea. South Korea and the USA should attack all known NK military/nuclear R&D installations. Come on China, let’s finish this bullshit.
Dr. Lankov,
I am glad to see that you understand Korean situation rather well. I agree with the following points.
1) LMB is a smart man. He has professional people, mostly SNU graduates with years of experience, working for him.
2) The ChoenAn incident cannot produce any change, no matter what LMB does. Everybody, including NK and China let alone LMB, is going through motions. I agree that even UN thing will produce no change.
3) I think you are right that LMB did these actions to “satisfy” right-wingers mainly, even though they did help the Hannara party to keep Seoul and Kyungi province in this recent election.
I thought LMB would keep the incident buried as “unsolved mystery”. However, he did gamble by pointing finger at NK and tried to persuade China to join in. He failed, as expected. Yet, the exercise did persuade many Koreans to see the “dark side” of China as the hearty supporter of KJI dictatorship.
Nevertheless, I wish LMB had not. He pushed the NK and played the game of dare. He came very close to pushing the Chinese to the edge where they could have given KJI the permission to do as the mad man pleased. The game was too dangerous. And, the consequence could have gone beyond what LMB could have the ability to contain.
Why? Why play that game? Too dangerous. Too meaningless.
War can break out with less agitation. After all, this is the sixtieth anniversary of the Korean war. One has to be careful about the anniversaries that ends with a zero.
When I say “war”, I do not mean the territorial pushing back and forth. The war in Korean peninsula will not be that kind of war.
NK will start by opening round of fire aimed at Seoul. (this is why Sejong city must be pursued). SK and the USAF will retaliate. This can go on a few days.
China will immediately call for the ceasefire. And, the US will too.
The war, actually the resumption of hostility between NK and SK, will end less than a month, even in one week. DMZ will not be violated on either side.
So, the war will be very limited in scope.
However, the consequence of it will be detrimental to SK. Very debastating. It would take several decades for SK to build back to the level where it is now.
And, China may buy up all industries and the real estates in Korea – I believe this could be what the Chinese might aim when they let loose KJI.
Nope. It’s nothing to do with PR. Nor is it because he actually wanted advice. It is more of a symbolic gesture of paying respect, and dallying with old power. The Korean political world is so dripping with the dictator past that people like 전두환 still wields considerable power. The same goes for the daughter of Mussolini who seems to have had an upbringing on an alien planet.
Sumo294, I was not a reader of TMH when Roh was in government. You must have me confused with some other Kim Ilsung University-educated fembot with the same name.
I never thought Roh was an idiot. Indeed I do think all those things you mentioned, but in more of a posthumous-way.
cm, I don’t blame LMB directly for the death of Roh Muhyun. He jumped. Nobody pushed him. Precisely because I think that no Korean president is ever going to be squeaky clean, by association and otherwise, they employed “나올때까지 털어 tactic” on him – the same for Han with whom they tried and failed. The prosecutors are independent of the government, but I believe that as much as I believe that no politician is guilty. We thought that the way it happened, (or was let to happen) was very unfortunate, and could have been avoided. Chun Duwhan would have put it succintly, “Even I am alive and well, why did the stupid guy jump?”
I think he jumped because he was a proud and ideal fool. He couldn’t live with himself after finding out that his wife had indeed taken the money, well into the trial, because he had said upto that point “It would never happen with me” and believed in his own innocence.
Also, I don’t hold 2MB responsible for the current economic crisis. Korea is doing quite well, compared to the rest of the world and especially considering the situation it is in.
cm, finally, you are the one who is conveniently forgetting the other side – the many protesters who were tortured and killed and the absolute newspaper/media control which was committed under the guise of “the North is just about to attack”. Any minute now. First let’s send our tanks in a coup d’etat. Let’s try and get rid of this troublesome commie guy (who subsequently won the Nobel Peace), put him in a box and drown him out at sea. Let me have another term in the office, and another, and another. In the meanwhile TBC will be merged with KBS. Anyone in the press who has anything to say will be silenced. For security, you understand. It’s the same old ploy. I realized that the North was not going to attack any time soon, and then I woke up.
The situation is different now though, and I recognize that. However, there are some things which make me wonder, from time to time.
Now that we are in the situation we are in, 2MB should go all the way, and accept no compromise. 칼을 뽑았으면 끝까지 until there is an outcome. They shouldn’t let them get away with murdering people unnecessarily to prop up their regime.
There was a time when I seriously had doubts when I went to hear the testimonies of torture by the defectors. I have never condoned the North regime. It’s the method that I have differing opinions about – villifying the villains for what purpose, and what outcome. I don’t think “North-sympathizer” or “North-controlled youth” is what describes me or others like me.
Finally, slim puts it well. I must be the sole voice on this blog which represents the so-called hidden 10 percent of the election. I don’t think I do the job very well, so I wish someone else who knew more/better would join me. But I think most people like that are Koreans who are not privileged enough to have dodged the army, have multiple nationalities and have had an education abroad (because the elite, and the rich tend to be right) and therefore they cannot speak English very well.
I do think it’s an important aspect which is missing from a blog with balanced discussions. Otherwise, it’s forever going to stay at a level of “Why on earth are they this way? It’s because Koreans are all mad and ungrateful sods.”
Well Yuna, if it’s any consolation I’d love to support a real progressive movement in South Korea — if there were one worthy of support…
I don’t like LMB’s apparent disregard for freedom of the press and possibly human rights. I don’t like that he’s hired ministers who previously worked for Park Chung-hee (the finance minister if I’m correct). In fact I don’t currently favor either side.
Unfortunately, from my limited perspective, the SK progressives look a bit like conspiracy theorists who believe the world is run by a secret cabal of evil geniuses. In foreign policy they seem to dislike the US, Japan and China… everyone in the neighborhood but the fascistic tyrant who has enslaved a third of the Korean people. They’ve also displayed incompetence in economic matters. Still, I do have sympathy. From what I can tell Roh had a great heart. And I believe Dubya Bush made it difficult for Roh and his predecessor’s administrations. For example had Gore been US prez during that time (as the majority of Americans desired) we might have seen a very different outcome, with a more clear-headed SK progressive movement. Instead I may speculate that because of Bush/Cheney the progressive presidents in SK still felt like members of the opposition, only this time a global one.
I was in favor of some kind of Sunshine Policy. However I saw the policy that emerged as horribly managed and ultimately currying favor to the Kim Dynasty. My beef: economic development policy favoring large infrastructure projects tends to reinforce autarkic, oligarchic and tyrannical regimes because they can keep the money in just a few trusted hands. An effective Sunshine Policy should instead focus on helping North Korea’s economy starting from the bottom up. This model’s success is already proven in North Korea — by what I call the Secret Sunshine of illicit Chinese border trade and small-level markets. But the progressives were desperate for progress (excuse the tautology) and settled for, essentially, Kim Jong-il’s plan. The problem as I see it was that the DPRK would have resisted any kind of real sunshine, as it would inevitably be seen as a “poisoned carrot.”
The recent election results I take as a manifestation of somewhat justified fears that Lee Myung-bak is turning the clock back on democracy and open society, as well as a dislike of his handling of the Cheonan incident, which they perceived to be all too political. (I see the Cheonan incident as a missed opportunity to draw attention to the human rights disaster in North Korea.) The firing of teachers also seemed very poorly timed and echoed previous policies under ROK tyrants. A more subtle move would seem to have been better, and again with different timing.
Bravo, Yuna.
Like many of the commenters here, I get extremely exasperated with the “progressive” position on this issue. Though I still don’t agree with it, I think your views more accurately represent that sentiment (one which several of my friends share) than the “commie lover” tag that gets thrown around sometimes.
Also, I’d completely missed the news that Chun Doo-hwan was invited to the Blue House. It’d be hard to imagine a move that could more effectively confirm sceptics’ suspicions that this is all some kind of right-wing plot.
Well, the obvious point is that symbolic gestures *are* PR, but the wider point, and the one I was making, was that everything a government says and most of what it does is governed by PR.
It’s like that guy in Uijeongbu who decided to wheel out a baby tiger in a glass case to usher in the new year. Some PR person should have been there yelling “No! Don’t do that! It’s a fucking stupid idea!” Same with the Chun meeting.
As someone who has followed British politics, you might remember the lady that suggested in a memo that 9/11 was a good day to bury bad news. That’s good PR, but ironically when the memo leaked it was also good PR to sack her.
Have people really forgotten who Roh really was?
He was incredibly corrupt, the investigation team didn’t just find bribes his wife took, it was his son, his daugher, his press secretary, his brother, his friends, and the big man himself. Everywhere they looked they tripped over huge buckets of money. There were Millions in the wife’s bank accounts, the press secretary’s, his children’s and brother’s.
Then there was his home and library which he put up 400,000 dollars if memory serves correctly and the other 10 or so million cannot be determined other than he never earned it and never paid any taxes for recieving it “IF” it was a legitimate gift. This “aw shucks” honest jim who hated the “rich” took two 100,000 dollar watches as a gift, blamed his wife (again) and then said he dumped them in a rice patch. Which led to the hilarity of 100′s of people searching said patch and finding nothing unlike the investigators.
People said stop! Why are you hounding poor honest Roh, it is a witch hunt. But it wasn’t. In the final days they were uncovering even more goodies including an exclusive multi-million dollar apartment in New York! What did Roh do? He blamed his wife, his daughter, his press secretary and then very unlike an honest man said since they were his family he had some blame although he couldn’t possibly have noticed the 10′s of millions of donations/graft/loot he had to step over every day just to walk out his own door. This is the same man who somehow lost most of the presidential computer archives.
Roh was an ego maniac and that was his problem. He couldn’t understand that his programs were not working since he was a genius. The laws of men did not apply to him and I think in the only moment of clarity in his life he couldn’t handle the truth. That is why he leaped, a coward’s end. Roh get’s no tears from me, nor his family. The adoration that continues for this creep amazes me.
One of my personal heros turned out to be a crook on the take and I’d like to kick the creep in the family rocks, but the progressives in Korea are not like that. No matter what their heros do, corruption or mass murder they still love them and work in conspiracy theories.
A note on “Chun Doo-hwan was invited to the Blue House:” President Lee invited all living former South Korean leaders (including Kim Young-sam and Roh Tae-woo) to the Blue House to get their take on the situation and get their support. If Roh had not commited suicide last year, he would have also gotten an invitation.
That tradition is not limited to Korea, as we recently saw when President Obama put former presidents Bush and Clinton in charge of raising funds for Haiti.
Perhaps so, but neither Bush nor Clinton was a vicious, utterly corrupt military dictator.
“Perhaps so, but neither Bush nor Clinton was a vicious, utterly corrupt military dictator.”
I have heard progressives in the US and the rest of the world compare Bush to a vicious corrupt dictator many times(this week, duh!).
Is not the screed du jour “he stole the election” (dictator), “he benefited from Saudi Arabia/Halliburton” (corruption), and waged wars for US conquest (vicicous/military). Want to see some Bushhalliburtonhilter signs? There are more than a few and none by “sink the teaparty” false flag operatives.
Chun Doo Hwan could be exclude from these functions but there are many who believe that he averted a national disaster by leading the coup. I actually do.
However, unlike him the Kwangju Massacre would not have happened the way it did(yes plenty of treason there and communist insurection that had to delt with), and I would not have taken the bucket of money that Kim Young Sam found who was one of Korea’s best, but with the worst luck possible presidents. I also would have returned the country to elections once order was restored, easier said than done with NK actively trying to destroy your country.
As an armchair Korean President I am completely awesome. I beat Syngman Rhee 7 out of 10, Park Chung Hee 2.5 out of 10, Chun Doo Hwan 8 out of 10, Roh Tae Woo 7 out of 10, Kim Young Sam 2 out of 10 (assuming I only knew what he did), Kim Dae Jung 5 out of 10, Noh Muh Yun 10 out of 10 and Lee Myung Bak I need to wait. Then again he’s the bulldozer for real achievements and I’m just the blogdozer for imagined greatness. I may need to cut him a lead and a significant one if he can charter a course that actually punishes NK internationally for the murder of the sailors on the Choenan without starting a war. Very hard to do since Chinese and Russian investigation teams along with swarms of progressives will accept no level of evidence.
Interesting and thoughtful comments Yuna & Robin Hedge.
I’d also support a genuine progressive party in Korea – one that doesn’t pander in xenophobia and anti-americanism and doesn’t glorify the DPRK. Problem is, no such progressive party (or broad, popular movement) seems to exist. Roh promised a lot, but turned out to be a corrupt hate-peddling wind-bag.
LMB on the other hand is corrupt, and doesn’t exactly have a stellar record in regards to press and political freedoms. Pro big business, anti-worker, with authoritarian tendencies. In other words, a typical South Korean conservative.
Korea’s problem is that it doesn’t have any moderate politicians. I think this is because the ROK is a young, highly-charged democracy, with a polity that is still scarred by memories of both the communists and the dictators that came afterwards. People have been polarised. Give it a generation and the wide-swinging pendulum will start to slow and Korea will begin to find a middle ground.
At least that’s my hope
Unfortunately, cm thinks that whatever right wing rhetoric that the 조중동 spews out is the truth and the only truth, which gives one an idea about how much he knows about Korea,
I’ll take 조중동, with their faults and all, over any of the rumor mills on the internet news. Sorry, but you left winging Mad Cow Zombies don’t have any media that can even be considered good enough in my book, to be taken seriously. Go right ahead, organize your young Zombies to vote out the Conservatives through rumor mills, and see how the country will go to hell in no time.
The real reason why Lee Myung Bak is taking a kid glove approach with N.Korea’s actions is simple. “Money”, if a idea of an war is even considered. The international investments in S.Korea would dry up, and their streak of current economic recovery would come to a screeching halt. Not to mention billions if not trillions of dollars (and lives) in losses due to war. Also, who will pick up the tab of the eventual reunification and reconstruction? N.Korea refugees would come flooding to the south looking for jobs and food. Who will house and feed them? How much money and time will it take before N.Korea’s economy catches up the their southern couterpart’s?
So, huffing and puffing act by the Korean government is understandable…
Let’s face it… How many of you out there was actually holding their breath waiting for Obama to publicly admonish or sanction Israel for boarding and killing aid workers on the flotilla? Yup, same old political bullshit regardless of nationality.
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