Another weekend, another Open Thread.
Oh, and more Craigslist nonsense, this time in — of all places — Hartford, former home of the 1987 Adams Division champions Hartford Whalers:
A Connecticut man who was feuding with his neighbor targeted her in an explicit online posting that invited strangers to a rowdy orgy with a bored soccer mom, police said.
Philip James Conran, 42, made his first court appearance Thursday, but did not enter a plea to charges including reckless endangerment, harassment, criminal trespass and risk of injury to a minor.
The charges stem from an April 5 posting on Craigslist that said a West Hartford woman wanted to “please as many as I can before I go to work!” Detectives, Conran’s attorney and the woman targeted in the posting are not saying what prompted the feud between the longtime neighbors in the middle-class Hartford suburb.
West Hartford Police Chief James Strillacci said even veteran officers were surprised by the number of strangers who knocked on the woman’s door, called the house or drove by.
“We were saying to ourselves, ‘The economy must be worse than we think if all of these able-bodied men are able to immediately drop everything and drive over to this neighborhood’” on a Monday morning, he said.
One respondent went to the wrong house and groped a teenage girl. Amazing. Another respondent argued with the soccer mom in question, threatening to post her photo around soccer fields around town.
More at the Smoking Gun.
Just to link this to Korea, former Anyang Halla player-coach Esa Tikkanen spent the 1993—1994 NHL season with the New York Rangers, where he was a team mate of center Darren Turcotte, who would be traded to the Whalers that season.
{ 135 comments… read them below or add one }
” and that his “pubic hair and his erect penis could have been sticking out of his pants” when he walked into the teenager’s residence.”
He came prepared.
What kind of people live in that Connecticut town? I thought Easterners were calm and collected. To the extent of being accused of “icy”.
Knock on the door with his dick hanging out? Barbaric.
Dogs.
Koreans has class compared to this American savage.
I shouldn’t laugh at this, but your connection to Korea – brilliant. Connect it to Kevin Bacon in only three more steps.
CheonAn thing should be over this week. Nothing can be done.
To me, one thing is clear. SK is not superior to NK in real war fighting. For long, long, long time, everyone in SK believed NKs are no match. They were so confident that SK military can take on NK any time, any where and beat it bad.
CheonAn says otherwise.
NKs are not easy. They have been preparing for war and willing to use very unconventional weapons including chemical, biological and nuclear.
SK military says they are ready. But only on paper! When things happens, like CheonAn, the truth comes out. Korean Navy has vulnerability when it comes to submarines and torpedoes.
SK needs USFK. Without it, as I have been writing for several years, SK as a nation may disappear and Korean people die out. I am not kidding.
More craiglist e-drama, “Man accused of listing kids on Craigslist says it was a joke”;
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100423/NEWS01/100423002/Man-allegedly-tries-to-sell-kids-on-Craigslist-
This Sunday is Anzac Day, the day that Australians and New Zealanders remember those who served in battle for their countries. I know there will be those in Korea who will give thanks for the 17,000 Australians and 1,389 Kiwis who fought alongside the Republic of Korea forces and especially for the 339 Aussies who died, the 1,200 wounded as well as the 33 New Zealanders who gave their lives so the ROK could become a strong and free nation and not one living under the yoke of communism. Lest we forget.
Too bad – we can’t retaliate for the CheonAn.
The north retaliated.
Why doesn’t the south.
Because they want to protect their economy.
Thats all – the north can murder many people – and in return nothing happens – because that would ruin the economy.
Meanwhile many South Koreans look at the North Koreans as “their brothers”
(That will never change).
alas I am sad that “SouthPark” had their FINAL episode this week (201)
There will be NO MORE SouthPark.
If the Simpsons ever ended – then that would be terrible!
@6 – I’m pretty sure you’re wrong:
from: This interview
Your current contract with Comedy Central takes you to 2013, at which point you’ll have been doing “South Park” for more than 15 years.
But only when compared to the Rock out with your cock out set? I think you go too far, but since you’ve got Korean blood I have to defer to your expert knowledge. Agreed!
Baduk,
What about the numbers of blond girls in Korea who have to endure the inevitable drooling from adjoshis and the constant refrains of “ooh, Lussian? Seks-eu?”
Class indeed.
‘Koreans has class compared to this American savage.’
reallly? that explains all that prostitution in korea. thanks, podunk.
What are you trying to suggest? That interracial sexual aggression by Koreans against whites is comparable to or greater than vice versa? Because you’d be wrong if you are. If you want to make a case along those lines, you’d have to go argue with some blacks or something, not Koreans.
Meanwhile, I passed an innocent Saturday cycling with my family — my wife Sun-Ae, my 13-year-old-daughter Sa-Rah, and my ten-year-old-son En-Uk — along one of the Han River’s tributaries.
We biked several miles upstream to our favorite hole-in-the-wall . . . actually a tent-on-the-upper-bank that used to be a tables-and-chairs-under-the-subway-bridge, but it’s all the same.
Good food. Maek-chu. San-nak-gee. Dubu-kimchee. Jae-yook-bok-um. So-ra-moo-chim. Hong-hap. We ate so much that we elected to bike several miles further upstream to burn off all the calories. Our entire outing lasted from around 10:30 in the morning till about 4:30 in the afternoon.
I feel great . . . today. Tomorrow might be another story . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
The South will do nothing about the North taking everything from the Geumgansan projects (and deporting every Souther) and giving it to another business “partner”, either.
Nonsense. Korean men drop their drawers as quickly as the next guy. There are websites where Koreans post and respond to messages seeking casual hookups. Some of these ads are for prostitutes, but some are lonely married, divorced, or single people looking for uncompensated sex. I could post a message in Korean on the Craigslist section for my area and attract a lineup outside my door. There are two Korean sunday services in town, and a fair number of responders would likely be church men with families.
Only once was I mistaken for Russian, and that was by a couple of MIddle Easterners. Maybe I’m not tall enough. In my experience and the experience of my friends and colleagues, catcalling is less common in Korea (and China) than in North America. One tall, leggy, blond colleague who worked in Mexico was relieved to be able to jog on the streets without being whistled at or propositioned with vulgarities. Northeast Asian men seem to prefer furtive methods of sexual harassment like groping in crowded places or rubbing up against young subordinates.
perhaps that’s where the “irish of the east” thing comes from…
I’m trying to learn Korean, so I’m watching some Korean TV. “High Kick Through the Ceiling” isn’t terrible, but I could really do without all the “toilet humor”. I swear to God they show someone on the can every other episode.
What? You mean taking a big massive dump after holding it in for a couple days isn’t a pleasurable experience for you?
Sure it is, you’re just in denial.
This doesn’t sound like mere conjecture.
No.
By and large they are mouth-breathing idiots.
jeffreyhodges@12
nice
Hey look, I made it past the spam filters!
These two kids are fantastic….
Sam Tsui (the singer) and Kurt Schneider (the producer).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIoSTbPt_PI
Journey – Don’t Stop Believing.
dogbertt,
That was funny.
It sounded more than a mere conjecture. Especially, him providing his local details.
aaronm,
I will be concerned if those Adjussies start dropping their pants in public. Or, knock on someone’s door with their dicks hanging out. Korean dicks are pretty short. It will be difficult to have it hang out. More like sheepish peeking.
And, Koreans do drop their pants. To shuffle their undies and tighten their belts. Old Korean men, especially those from countryside, do this quite often and in public. So, don’t be alarmed. They are just pulling up their pants which are sliding down.
When I first arrived in Korea, lo those many years ago, I was at Jongro Sam Ga metro station, and I had to pee before catching my train home to my haunted apartment in Hongje. As I was pissing, an older Korean man was trying to catch a glimpse of my junk, even squatting down next to my urinal and almost pushing his head against my leg. This has never happened in any of the other countries I’ve lived in or visited, including North America.
You can justify this by saying “Oh, that’s just curiosity.” or something along those lines, but there is a subtlety that was distinctly lacking.
Since then, I have learned Korean generally lack subtlety.
And my apartment in Hongje was definitely haunted.
HIM? But Baduk, there is no gay Korean.
The sight of an ajusshi dropping his trousers for any reason is alarming. Actually, a more correct word choice would be nauseating. At least Korean men don’t stroll through hotel hallways in their undies like some Chinese men do.
@ Sonagi
Only once was I mistaken for Russian
Are you NOT Korean, then? I had always assumed you were, living in Annandale or something.
‘Sam Tsui (the singer)…’ robert neff
lol! i thought you meant the cantonese pop singer from the 70′ and 80s! i was wondering how you would know of him but i see you meant someone else. maybe the kid is named after him.
anyway, speaking of cantopop and journey, here’s a nice rendition of ‘faithfully’ by the late and great anita mui 梅艷芳*매염방
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXtYZC8Aepc&feature=related
the lady had a tough life then passed on due to ovarian cancer when she was in her 40s. may God bless her soul.
oops! scrach that about sam TSUI. got mixed up there. i need my coffee.
Ladron,
Korea had been a “closed” country. Any foreigner is a shock to Koreans, who have to re-consider their view of the world, the world being inhabited only by Orientals.
Things are much better now.
The old guy have heard all foreigners have hugh d***s or weird d****s and he wanted to verify it himself. He had scientific curiosity, no malice.
I know the old man’s son will not do that to any foreigners. It takes time for the old and the ignorant to die out. Just give another 20 years.
Sonagi,
You must be a woman, as you say. You never forget a passing comment I made five years ago in an unrelated topic.
Obssessed?
“At least Korean men don’t stroll through hotel hallways in their undies like some Chinese men do.” – Sonagi
I believe now that you have been to China. Nobody can make this up.
The Chinese talk loud and proudly walk around in their underwares. Somebody can make a lot of money by selling designer undies that work both as a underware and as a short pants.
“The old guy have heard all foreigners have hugh d***s . . .”
Okay, Baduk, enough with the Hugh Grant jokes — they’re old hat.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
” 미국 뉴저지 주의 한인 밀집지역인 팰러세이드파크 시에 올가을 일본군 위안부들을 추모하는 비석이 세워지게 됐다.”
“This coming fall, in heavily Korean populated Palisades Park, NJ, a monument will be raised in remembrance of the Comfort Women of the Japanese military”
http://news.donga.com/3/06/20100424/27801541/1&top=1
Ladron,
If you have that happening again, slowly turn your hip to his direction, so that urine can hit his face.
He will never do that again.
Ahh Baduk, thanks for the early-morning chuckles, mate. Whatever it is that goes on in that head of yours, it’s comedy gold at times. If we’re ever in the same neck of the woods, the beers are on me!
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT!
‘lousy korea’ got what she deserved. free speech does not mean free of consequences.
http://koreanrumdiary.blogspot.com/2010/04/lousy-critics.html?showComment=1272045092933#c1404150894377584630
ps i like to think i had a hand in this since i’m the one who brought the bitch to
people’s attention by way of this hugely popular blog. she got what she was asking for.
pawi, I know you don’t tend to grasp complex ideas or abstract concepts, but I hope you DO realize you are on the slimy side of this issue — the side that makes Koreans look intolerant, irrational, violent and even fenqingish.
I think you should stick to being comically wrong (but not honest enough to own up to it) about the place of Italian food in the Asian culinary scene. THAT thread was a hilariously epic fail on your part.
I’m shocked The Korean wastes his time visiting and commenting at “Korea Rum Diary”.
Baduk:
There is one other possibility. She could be an elephant.
yeah, f*ck you, slim. how’s that for comical? and btw, koreans don’t like italien food. she got what she deserved.
one more thing, not a single korean has contradicted what i said about italien food. not even ms sa hwa dong could bring herself to do that.
Huh, korean don’t like italian? Well, they certainly love koreanized italian food, no? They recently had a drama series named “Pasta” for God’s sake! I don’t remember what people here said before about this topic because I try not to follow the food fight threads on this site — this makes me smarter than half the people here.
italian. i keep forgetting. and oh, slim’s wife is japanese.
koreanized italian food ain’t italian. that’s why those w forked tongues go on and on about how lousy it is.
You 뇬.
Is that true, Slim? Does your new girlfriend know you’re married?
I suppose you don’t think korean americans aren’t at least partly korean either.
BTW, they even spoke some real and I assume minimally understandable Italian on that show. Credit where credit is due!
Err.. yeah you know what I mean.
look, to argue koreans like italian food based on their like of koreanized italian food is like arguing americans love mexican food based on their love of taco bell or del taco. the food you find there certainly looks mexican but we all know it ain’t. if one of these english teachers were to say that koreans love koreanized italian food, i’d have no argument but to make it sound like they love anthing like real italian food is just being dishonest.
@@@@@
as for ‘lousy korea’, i don’t condone threats towards children but people should learn to restrain themselves. the lady brought this on herself. how about some bill mayer?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/04/21/jeffrey-scott-shapiro-jesse-venture-book-lies-truthers-ground-zero-sept-shame/
“Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building – since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.”
So…I check in at the Hole for the first time in a few days and what do I see? Pawi still going on about Koreans and Italian food.
This is better than South Park.
Oh, and Stretch…celebrating the fact that she closed the blog due to threats of violence towards someone else’s children sure does make you look like you condone it. Why don’t you show some consistency and go on a crusade against those who made the threats?
what does ‘harb al tahrir’ mean?
It means the war of liberation.
thank you, abu. i know the flag you use is not palestinian but please know that there are many here in the states that can see what’s really going on. this is a matter of time as america changes stripes. israel’s days of brutalizing the falestini are numbered.
To argue that Koreans DON’T like Italian is equally “dishonest”. By your own definition of what “real” Italian food is, Koreans have never tasted it. How can one dislike what one has never tasted?
Well, if we all know it’s koreanized italian food that we’re talking about, why not just understand them to mean that english teachers think koreans like koreanized italian food. If they say italian food sucks in korea, they mean koreanized italian food sucks. Oh well. That’s their right to say I guess. I’m perfectly free to say that americanized chinese food sucks too.
So I had a thought that I would chime in and comment about how this is one of the worst open threads in memory. I mean, it started with Baduk talking about pubic hair, and it actually went downhill from there. Then, when I think it can’t get any worse, it’s HOLY FUCK ITALIEN (sic) FOOD all over again. Strangle me with oben seopeogetty.
Then I thought rather then bitching, I should say something positive and intelligent, and maybe raise the discourse a little.
But that takes effort, so here’s something to make things worse. It’s a BBC article about a row between two female mountain climbers, each vying to be the best in world. One of them is Korean. If you can read the whole article without your eyes glazing over in apathy, you’re a better person than me. Or at least different.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8638695.stm
I still don’t get why people would risk their lives to go mountain climbing. Crazy stuff. Granfalloon, you’re not raising the level of discourse at all.
So how bad open threads are when WeikuBoy is caught in the spam filter for a couple of days? (Hey look! I made it through!)
I’m curious what we think of HBO’s The Pacific.
The Korean climber starts every day off with a big plate of spaghetti.
(Escape is impossible.)
I don’t know about that. I saw Episode 200. That was hella funny.
OK, here’s what I’m going to say about that. Like TheKorean said, free speech doesn’t mean “free from consequences.” I’ll add on to that by saying if you create a blog to essentially troll an entire country, don’t be surprised if said country — or, in this case, at least one forum — trolls you back.
But also like TheKorean said, threats of violence direct those expressing an opinion — no matter how vile — is a serious, serious matter. I’d like to see some links to the alleged threats, though.
Oh, and:
made me laugh. Not as hard as South Park, episode 200, mind you. But still pretty hard.
‘it’s HOLY FUCK ITALIEN (sic) FOOD all over again.’
uh, you mispelled ‘italian’ but anyway, i agree. why slim decided to bring this up agaiin is anybody’s guess.
‘in this case, at least one forum — trolls you back.’
i’m not sure if you mean the blog ‘koreansentry’ but if you did, i wouldn’t say the thread on ‘lousy korea’ could be called trolling. the comments went on for pages and quickly veered off the subject at hand. i stopped reading it at about page 4. i’ve never heard of the blog before, btw.
‘I’d like to see some links to the alleged threats, though.’
all we have about this is what ‘lousy korea’ says. we also have her now claiming that she actually likes korea and didn’t strat her blog to be offensive to koreans. yeah, i believe her.
#12
I am sorry – but I feel sorry for your young son being named “En-Uk”
I asked my students also – and they said that is a very strangey boys name.
I’m totally internet crushing on this Korean-American girl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g75Q1tTmVAc
Please marry me. I will become rich and powerful… just for you. <3
Oh, she and two other kyopos did a collab rap and rnb song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gmnrx25OvI
all americans of color need to be concerned about this. the law will be struck down but until then, just stay out of arizona.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/24/arizona.immigration.reaction/?hpt=C1
Iceberg:
There is one other possibility – Pawi thinks in French when talking about Italian-related things, and la cuisine becomes le food.
She looks a bit like my Japanese friend, who’s actually prettier
Anyway, the rendition sounds like it’s for some happy clappy evangelist camp fire. I don’t think Korean/Korean-kyopo evangelist church has done much to improve the taste of music in Korea, unlike other nations/ethnic groups. I hate their music as much as I hate most musical style music.
yuna,
I haven’t heard the original, but I figure Christian “camp fire” music is difficult to avoid when the musical accompaniment is strummed guitar.
You’ve lost me with the second sentence in the second paragraph in your post. Seems profound, ie,
“I don’t think Korean/Korean-kyopo evangelist church has done much to improve the taste of music in Korea, unlike other nations/ethnic groups.”
You mean the way Black American gospel gave way to RnB, Rock, and all? I don’t get it.
Korean American Christian music is not even derivative of anything. Whatever folk in the Bible belt of the USA are listening to, Kyopos are listening (and playing) to. Amy Grant, all those songs and artists one might find on a “WOW” compilation, mix CD… et al..
I rather like the sound profile of Christian music, to be honest. It’s the only thing I’ve ever liked about being a Christian. I’m smart, though; that’s why I haven’t let mere music dupe me into taking the false tale of a Virgin, Ghost, and Jew as divine.
Anyway, I like ClaraC…
Some other Kyopos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQx-RWiDB6M
abcdefg I don’t like the style of music known as 복음성가. I am guessing most of the composers are Korean.
I have always loved the very few negro spirituals I know such as -”Nobody knows the troubles” though, though that’s probably preciously little to do with Beyonce’s style now.
Craash (#66) wrote: “they said that [En-Uk] is a very strangey boys name.”
They must be very ‘strangey’ people to say that.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
And for those who would like to see my ‘strangey’ boy’s ‘strangey’ blogs, go to either of the two blogs that 인욱 writes.
I extend sympathy to Craash (#66) for having to teach private students either late on Saturday evening or early on Sunday morning. Life can be hard.
But life can also be a dream, and I wish for everyone family happiness at least as full as mine . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
i liked your son’s art, jeffery. thanks for sharing it w us.
******
‘Pawi thinks in French when talking…’ yuna
wow, an esl student making fun of a native speaker? that’s rich.
As I said, myself and my students feel sorry for your son being named [En-Uk].
Just as I feel sorry for my sisters son – because she named him “Emmett”.
How much better his drawings would be, if only he had a cool name like HyunShik or JuHwan or JaeYeun.
anyway….
Craash, your concern is vastly appreciated . . . but nevertheless superfluous. En-Uk is a very happy boy who has never suffered even the least ridicule for his ‘strangey’ name.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
You’re welcome, Pawi. I’ll let En-Uk know.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
craash, it’s never ok to talk shit about other people’s children. perhaps you should stay away from the boon’s farm and ripple.
I’ve got to agree with Pawi on this one. This fixation on the kid’s name is pretty bad form. It’s the name his parents gave him, so obviously they like it. Who really gives a shit what your students think of it?
Plus, Emmitt Smith’s name didn’t seem to hold him back much.
Jeffery,
Your son should open up a gallery. I’d pay good money for “Kim Jong-il Smell,” and “Wow.”
In addition to his art, I like his efficiently quirky way of signing off. Bye.
I was going to mention that too. Bye.
And, hence, his use of (sic).
Hey, that was Clara C and Jay Park…as in 2PM 박재범. Heh heh heh.
No opinions re HBO’s The Pacific? OK then, here’s mine:
Band of Brothers spent a lot of time, perhaps too much time, getting to know the characters, starting with their training. D-Day wasn’t until Episode 2 or 3. And all that was after Private Ryan. The Pacific puts us on Guadalcanal in the first half-hour. The characters and some of the action are confusing — a problem made worse by HBO Asia’s strict censoring of nudity and violence, leaving me guessing at what the actors are reacting to at times — and then we’re off Guadalcanal by the end of Episode 2. *** SPOILER ALERT: The U.S. wins. *** Frankly, I’d have liked at least a glimpse of what Parris Island was or is like.
I’m not saying it sucks; far from it. Terrence Malick’s wonderful ‘The Thin Red Line’ can actually serve as an intro, like Private Ryan did for Band of Brothers; and I saw that the producers found (or made) scenery in Australia to match each of the islands that were the scenes of the WWII battles they re-create — a pretty awesome undertaking. The way coolest thing so far is when the officers address the men, the marines respond not with the screamed “Sir! Yes, sir!” we’ve come to expect, but rather a carefully considered “Yeah”, as in, We agree.
Still, I hope The Pacific is not just a series of beach landings; and I wonder if they might have been better off focusing their efforts on just one battle.or one unit, rather than trying to fit the whole Pacific War into ten hours.
Korean angle? I really hope Speilberg and Hanks do The Korean War next.
My point is that when the pawi the ominignorant confines his mindlessness to things like cuisine, that represents comical if pathetic stupidity. But when he takes swaggering credit for instigating threats of violence against the CHILDREN OF THE FRIEND OF A BLOGGER he doesn’t like, that goes directly to character.
Nobody on this blog should deign to urinate on pawi even if he’s rolling on the ground in flames.
인욱’s a great name. He’s a lucky boy, having you as his father.
Yes, 인욱 is a perfectly normal sounding & quite a nice Korean name. Both my boy cousins have “인”자 앞돌림. I don’t understand the orignal comment by craash, unless he meant it sounds strange in English but then it doesn’t sound strange in English either. Quite close to Enoch I think.
This article fr. the Joongang Ilbo looks like it copied and pasted from your site:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2919595
I had a lot of time in my hands on Friday at the office. That was the first and only time I ever read anything on KRD anyway.
“I’m shocked The Korean wastes his time visiting and commenting at “Korea Rum Diary”.”
Really? I’m not. Have you seen his online “work-product”? If he really is an attorney, then he must be with the SEC’s newly-uncovered Porn Unit. In which case let’s be grateful he deigns to spend his life correcting the opinions of those poor benighted K-bloggers who dare vent about the frustrations of actually living in Korea. That, or the position of law firm associate has really changed in the last few years.
Spam filter, here we come. Whoosh!
‘And, hence, his use of (sic).’
lol.
Iceberg (83), that is a quirky quirk of his. I’ll tell him that you like it. I like it, too Bye.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Hoju Saram (82), if you liked “Kim Junk-ill,” you’ll love his masterpiece of political art: Kim Jong-il.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Thanks Dogbertt (88), but I’m really the lucky one.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Thanks, Yuna (89). I also like the name “인욱.” In fact, you are right about “Enoch.” We tried to choose a name that would work in Korean as well as in English, and my father-in-law approved of the Chinese meaning, something like “Shining Person,” I think.
En-Uk is more likely to get ribbed about his middle name, “Sequoya,” since people might associate it more with the enormous Sequoia tree than with the man who developed a syllabary for the Cherokee to write their language with. But I wanted to recall my maternal grandmother’s Cherokee heritage, whatever others might think.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
인, meaning “person,” = 人. A related character is 仁, meaning “benevolence or kindness.” 욱 is probably 煜, meaning “shining.”
BTW, we see so many uncommon and unique names in US public schools now, En-Uk would fit right in. At a former school, there were a pair of brothers both named Prince something ala Michael Jackson. The seed-scattering dad bragged that he had 12 kids in four states.
A trend among Spanish-speaking and Portuguese-speaking Latinos is to choose foreign-sounding, foreign-looking names for their children. My Brazilian colleague has a French name because her parents liked the sound and look of it. There are kids in my school with mixed ethnic names names like Vasily Rodriguez or Nasreen Almodovar (made up but similar to real names). The parents are both Spanish-speaking but may have known people with those names and decided they liked them. About half of the names of the kids I teach were unfamiliar to me. Very few traditional names like Juan or Maria among young Latinos.
The purpose of a name is to identify and distinguish a person from others. A distinct or unique name is an advantage as long as it is not difficult to pronounce in the vernacular and carries no unpleasant meaning.
@97:
Go tell that to John Kim, David Lee, Jean Yoo and Grace Park, inter alia.
Exactly! Which is just how the parents of Timothy McVeigh, Jeffrey Dahmer, Danny Rawlins and Ted Bundy thought too.
My thoughts: The purpose of a name is to direct attention to the individual — not the label. So in considering a name I consider the following:
1) Less is more: Kids should live up to their potential — not pretentious sounding names;
2) I don’t want such anonymous sounding names that my kids will get lost in the shuffle; on the other hand, I don’t want names that will cause my kids to get beaten up everyday in the schoolyard;
3) Generational names are OK; however, kids are rarely able to live down celebrity namesakes without being persecuted, e.g., Michael Bolton, Ron McDonald, etc.
4) As Oscar Wilde said: “Puns are the lowest form of humour,” which is why I eschew double entedere when naming progeny.
Glad you agree with me, but I’m confused about this part:
The surnames are not so common but the given names are very common for males of those generations.
Since when? This is a relatively modern affectation. Traditionally, names served to classify people according to trade/status, e.g., baker, carpenter, wainwright, or, generally in the case of “nobles”, geographic origin. This system did differentiate people from others, but (broadly-speaking) individually so only in the case of the aristocrats.
BTW, it seems to me that one source of the oft-remarked Korean fascination with excrement is the fact that the most common names for Korean slaves, from whom the vast majority of the curent population are descended, were the ifferent appellations for various kinds of animal shit.
that must be why your korean name is ‘asshole’, spervert.
I say the purpose of a name is to confound the enemy!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Sperwer: where did you hear/read this? I don’t know any words in Korean for various types of animal excrement.
If Koreans are indeed fascinated with ordure, they are by no means the only ones. One must not overlook the very rich vein of scatological humor (often fark jokes) to be found in Great Britain, for example. Or the giggles that can be elicited from an American audience just by saying the letters “BM” together in public. Or “TP,” for that matter.
What I see is a *human* fascination with crap because there is nothing like taking a load off your mind. That’s alimentary…
Fascinating. Sperwer’s comment made me wonder, only naturally, why would korean parents want to name their kids after shit? The below site seems to have the answer. Here’s the most relevant part:
이러한 전통 관습은 작명에서도 이어졌다. ‘악명위복(惡名爲福)’이란 것이 있는데, 이것은 이름을 나쁘게 지을수록 복을 갖는다는 생각이다. 그래서, 임금의 가문에서까지 ‘개똥’이라는 이름이 나왔고, 양반 가문에선 ‘도야지(돼지)’라는 이름도 나왔다. 예컨대, 조선 고종 임금의 아명(아이 때 이름)이 ‘개똥’이고, 조선시대 유명한 정치가 황희 정승의 아명이 ‘도야지’이다.
Basically, there was an ironic tradition back in the day where it was thought that the crappier a name given is, the better life would be — filled with more blessings — for the child given the crappy name. The excerpt above also says that even one of the kings had the nickname 개똥 as a child.
http://www.namelove.co.kr/namelove/naming/old_name.html
@Sperwer:
By “distinguish,” I did not mean “stand out.” I meant “tell who is who.” Classification is one means of doing this, of course, so there is no conflict between my comment and yours.
OK; let’s see some empirical proof for this: “BTW, it seems to me that one source of the oft-remarked Korean fascination with excrement is the fact that the most common names for Korean slaves, from whom the vast majority of the curent population are descended, were the ifferent appellations for various kinds of animal shit.”
Not to forget the funny names that Dutch people came up with after Napoleon annexed the Kingdom of Holland in 1810:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_name#History_of_Dutch_surnames
Marmot, you are slipping…. Where are the GIRLS?
The best single post for the layman I’ve read so far on the question of China’s currency management:
http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/753.html
The blogger — Steven Waldman — basically says Paul Krugman the Nobel Laureate is something of a pathetic whiner.
“So I had a thought that I would chime in and comment about how this is one of the worst open threads in memory.”
It was–until En-Uk’s art gallery redeemed it. I want to suggest to his father to consider buying his son a stylus and tablet interface device. But, the crazy outlines, spare details, interesting “framing,” and the use of the fill-in color function with colors from the default pallete make these images unexpectedly compellingly to me.
“Kim Jong-Il” is interesting to me because it is contrary to the way professionals caricature the dictator. For instance, En-Uk draws sharp-angled “shadows” into his cheeks. I am blindly guessing that he learned to do that from reading American comic books. Superheroes get their cheeks shaded because the artist wants to show that his hero works out. But other artists draw the shadows to create an emaciated appearance–to make a face look more like a skull with skin. En-Uk achieves the latter in a pretty interesting way–by setting the triangular shadows in a block-shaped head, using the rectangle function. The result is that the straight lines and sharp angles of the head and cheek shadows make him look more like a fat-less head, or a skull.
But anyone familiar with KJI-caricature knows that it is not unusual to give him a circular or oval head. More importantly, En-Uk eschews some of KJI’s trademark features, including the pair of jowled cheeks of a sated pig, which droop from the sides of his head. If En-Uk had drawn the head with the oval function and kept the trangular shadows, then the effect of the skull might have been lost and the result might have been incongruous. Although there is nothing wrong with being portrayed as being emaciated–as with Gandhi or the Buddha–giving the figure the name, Kim Jong-Il, lends the image a cartoonishly sinister effect.
There are some other interesting features, I think. Which is to say that I like it, too. A nice gallery indeed!
I hope you didn’t mind this feedback.
Well, for the most part, they didn’t and didn’t; the names were conferred by the master/slave owner – a “tradition” also well-known in the pre Civil War American South.
SOnagi @ 105: I didn’t mean to suggest a fundamental contradiction between our basic points; only to indicate an (imo) significant nuance.
The most common incidence of this in East Asia, of course, was the relatively common practice of conferring girl’s names on boys, especially first-born sons, to be changed when they were in late adolescence. This may still go on; Bruce Lee originally was given a girl’s name, for instance, to avoid any unwanted attention from malevolent spirits.
Sure, but I figured even the yangban wouldn’t be so vulgar as to start naming their servants after feces all of sudden — in fact, such a practice would seem to be at odds with confucian decorum — so I wanted to know how it started, and that reason seems to have nothing to do with master/slave relationship, which you seem to imply in your first post. But in any case, yeah probably this whole irony tradition does explain all the references to 똥 in korean culture. How exactly the master-to-slave transmission of such names influenced cultural references to 똥, I dunno. Did you just come with that idea yourself?
OK, I’ll give you an opinion. I like it enough to watch it — how many films/TV shows do you get to watch about the Pacific? — but I’d still rather watch “House,” “Supernatural,” “Fringe,” “Burn Notice” or “Royal Pains,” depending on the season.
SPOILER!!!!
I also kind of felt bad for the Japanese dude they were shooting up in Episode 1 before James Dale’s character finally put him out of misery. Probably should go down as Reason 1 why you don’t want to show up late to a banzai charge.
Re the characterization of pre-modern Korean polities as slave societies, the most important empirical work has been done by Sogang University professor Seung-ki Hong, and in the United States, the late James B. Palais of the University of Washington and Ellen Salem of Columbia University. Additional contributions have been made by Milan Hejtmanek, Harvard University, and Mark Peterson, Brigham Young University. You’ll have to go to the library to dig out the articles the old-fashioned way.
Palais has written the most interpretive piece, in which he characterizes Three Kingdom, Koryo and Joseon Koreas as “slave societies”, using the concept as elaborated by Harvard’s Orlando Patterson: “Views on Korean Social History”, Institute for Modern Korean Studies, Yonsei University, 1998. Not all of the empirical researchers would agree with Palais’ characterization; some of the Korean scholars working on the topic, in particular, attempt to argue (unconviningly imo) that Korean slavery was in some instances “different” and thus not “really” slavery. See also: Chapter 6 of Palais’ magisterial “Confucian Statecraft and Korean Institutions: Yu Kyŏngwŏn and the Late Chosŏn Dynasty (Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1996); the earlier “Slavery and Slave Society in the Koryo Period.” The Journal of Korean Studies 5 (1984): 173-190; and “A Search for Korean Uniqueness.” Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 55:2 (December 1995): 409-425, in which he judges that the importance of slavery and its legacies are a significant element in what makes pre-modern and modern Korea “unique”.
Re: the naming of slaves, there is no single study of the topic of which I am aware; probably because the subject is only of incidental significance to the elucidation of the the role of slavery in Korean social structure. Some of the sources referenced above refer to it, though, and the real proof of the pudding is in the primary source materials on which they are based if you want to dive in.
Lollabrats (114), thanks for the extended analysis of En-Uk’s art.
To respond to your musing on American comic books . . . I doubt that they’ve had much influence. He reads mostly East Asian comics. However, he did watch a lot of Cartoon Network for a while, then Disney Channel cartoons, so he might have gotten something from those.
I might ask him about this . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
jeffery, does your son speak korean? sorry to be so nosy.
‘이러한 전통 관습은 작명에서도 이어졌다. ‘악명위복(惡名爲福)’이란 것이 있는데, 이것은 이름을 나쁘게 지을수록 복을 갖는다는 생각이다. 그래서, 임금의 가문에서까지 ‘개똥’이라는 이름이 나왔고, 양반 가문에선 ‘도야지(돼지)’라는 이름도 나왔다. 예컨대, 조선 고종 임금의 아명(아이 때 이름)이 ‘개똥’이고, 조선시대 유명한 정치가 황희 정승의 아명이 ‘도야지’이다. ‘
i understand this w/o a dictionary. my korean is shit but not as much as some of you might think.
You have to keep in mind that Korean slavery long predates the Confucianization of Korean society which, despite the appearance of certain institutions of governance based on Chinese mediated Confucian ideas as early as the Three Kingdoms Period, did not even begin in earnest until well after the founding of the Joseon dynasty and didn’t really “succeed” until the mid-Joseon. See the work of Martina Deuchler and John Duncan. Confucianization thus served (only) to provide a new legitimation for the long pre-existing extreme, rigid and rather brutal social stratification of Korean society. Decorum “might” to some extent have mitigated the darwinian character of Korean society among the yangban themselves, but (despite the precepts of the Confucian ideology) its role in ameliorating the (mis)treatment of social inferiors – particularly those below the cut-off of social respectability (i.e., the yeoman/peasant) probably was minor at best.
Pawi, both En-Uk and Sa-Rah are fluent in Korean, less so in English.
I’ve had to work hard at getting them to be fluent in English! Ironically, I thought that the situation would be reversed and that my wife would need to tutor them in Korean. When she was pregnant with our daughter, I told her to speak only Korean to Sa-Rah since I wanted our daughter to be bilingual. But we all ended up in Korea, and I had to do the evening tutoring, first with Sa-Rah, then with En-Uk as well!
Life never turns out as planned . . . well, not my life, anyway.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Hey Sperwer, yeah I’m fully aware that commoners were often mistreated in godawful ways by the yangban. One could figure out that much even by taking a brief glimpse at some of the saguk dramas. I’m just wondering if you were making shit up in your first post and if you were, no big deal — people are capable of coming up with original and valid thoughts every once in a while. But I think at the very least you should cover your ass in some way by saying it’s your “educated guess” or something like that.
JW:
Am I mising something or are you?
In my previous posts, I’ve given a plethora of references about about traditional Korea as a slave society. Those references themselves contain numerous references to the practice of naming slaves after various species of animal ordure as evienced by the primary sources they cite. I also mention that there is no detailed, systematic study of such naming practice of which I am aware and, that if one wants to verify the real “dirt” (and not just rely on the word of a significant and diverse number of respected Korean and foreign cholars of Korean history), you’ve got to revert to the primary sources yourself. The most productive of the latter, in my experience, are Joseon legal records, easier access to which than mucking in the archives can be found in some of Shaw’s work on Korean legal history. In any event, my observations about such naming practices are not an educated guess but based on documented facts.
As for my tongue-in-cheek remark about the connection between such tradition and the Korean fetish with scatology, I would have thought it obvious that was pure speculation.
As for your awareness of yangban mistreatment of “commoners”, I’m afraid you seem still to be missing the point. Slaves, and various other lower orders were not even considered “commoners”, buty – as the naming practice itelf indicates – regarded as less than fully human. Hence yangban “decorum”, such as it was, wouldn’t have even figured in yangban’s treatment of them – witness the appalling arrognace with which the yangban treated ostensibly respectable members of the social order such as commoners.
WTF?
Oh, so you were just running your mouth again in negative terms about Korea, like you often seem to want to do. That’s ok, I get the urge to run my mouth too, and you know what, I might even do it as much as you do. See, at least I admit it, my good fellow asshole!
JW:
LOL, but I think the facts of Korean history show it in a more negative light than any troll-bait flotsam and jetsam ever could.
thanks for sharing that, jeffery. it’s always good to speak at least two languages. when you come back to the states, you might want to teach them spanish.
I’ve been hearing about the Kia K7. Is the K7 the Cadenza overseas? Nice looking car. Good reviews. Anyone own one?
Sperwer,
That wasn’t very nice.
was the movie ‘independence day’ that far fetched? perhaps not. fascinating thread. check it out, guys.
http://news.discovery.com/space/do-aliens-exist-will-they-kill-us.html
What’ that, WangKon; the facts? Historical truth is pretty inconvenient for self-serving national mythologies. “Nice” just doesn’t seem like a relevant evaluative category. Most Koreans, and ROKGOV in particular, appear to have thought for decades that it wasn’t “nice” to air the facts concerning the comfort women”; by refraining from doing so (indeed actively working to suppress the issue), they were complicit in the despicable cover-up perpetrated by some quarters in Japan – ironically, in service of the self-same phenomenon of nationalism. Coke or Pepsi?
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