Curzon takes Hojuland to task for its “Korean” foreign policy:
Basically, foreign policy is supposed to be handled by adults with a cool head, and an undergraduate with a basic foundation in realism or diplomacy could have picked apart the multiple and sophomoric stupidities in the conduct of Korean foreign policy.
Which brings me to Australia and its reaction to Japan’s whaling. For decades, Japan has hunted whales in international waters for “scientific research”, following an unorthodox reading of the treaty banning whale hunting, and sold the meat from the whales in Japan. This serves to preserve a few isolated communities with fisherman who hunt whales, but the meat is so unpopular it has a hard time being sold. The public in Australia are morally outraged by the hunt, seeing whales as the gentle and noble giants of the sea, and are appalled by Japan permitting and sponsoring the whale hunt. Australia has abstractly threatened legal action for years, although a winning legal action (except by outside observers), or how it would successfully be brought to the International Court of Justice. Japan basically thinks this is just Australian domestic electoral politics and is basically ignoring these threats of litigation.
Lacking a clear legal strategy, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has instead reverted to threatening and snubbing Japan in public, and recently announced a decision to skip a nuclear nonproliferation summit to be held in the US. Australia and Japan co-chair the International Commission on Nuclear Non-proliferation and Disarmament. The announcement also came just before Japan’s Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada made his first visit to Australia.
Of course, some might see some irony given the comparisons that could be made between Roh Moo-hyun and the current Japanese prime minister.
{ 48 comments… read them below or add one }
Whale meat can be very tasty. Sustained whaling is a good thing. The solution to this is to play “Moby Dick” on Hojuland cable (and not the Led Zeppelin video). Once those Hojus see the injustices meted out by the great white whale on Gergory Peck they’ll change their attitude.
How effortlessly and mindlessly Man, the Wonderful Pinnacle of Creation, subsumes all other life forms to subservience…
What does this sentence mean?
“Is “Curzon”‘s reasoning as coherent as his editing? I understood that while Rudd continued his grandstanding for the cretinous public, his government was actually trying to come to a peaceful compromise with the Japanese.
Any clues?
In any case, here’s hoping that Japan throws the book at the New Zealand wannabe-terrorist, Peter Bethune, for illegally boarding their vessel and trying to arrest its captain.
Leave out the first double quotes.
Here’s to correcting one’s mistakes.
Meanwhile, while Earth faces its sixth and most devastating mass extinction, for the first time courtesy of “humanity” – see
http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html
- someone has the audacity to actually protest?
My God, the social order will never recover!
(Perhaps if he had said “…please?”)
Curzon clearly has a fairly shallow understanding of the whaling debate in Australia, the reasons so many Australians are outraged, and the history of Japanese whaling.
Lets get to the crux of it.
Japan is targeted by anti-whalers because:
1. They hunt (or hunted until recently) whales that are endangered (fin) and vulnerbale (humpback).
2. They hunt these animals in what Australia considers its own territorial waters. Australia designated and manages the Australian Antarctic Territory (at great cost to the tax-payer) as a gigantic research area and breeding sanctuary, so that the whale stocks might increase from their current (depleted) levels.
3. Whale-watching is an important industry in Australia and the South Pacific. In Tonga and Fiji, for example, whale-watching is very important to their tourism industries, the funds benefiting many poor local communities. Also, some people happen (myself included) like watching them, swimming with them and surfing with them (gasp!)
4. The techniques used to kill whales are cruel when compared to other animals. Whales often take up to an hour or more to die.
5. Japan claims to hunt whales for “research”, a clear, bald-faced lie. If Japan was to be honest about the reasosn for the annual hunt, I suspect they would have far more sympathisers in Oz.
6. Some Japanese also claim a cultural and historical mandate for hunting whales. This is also a weak claim; Japanese traditional hunters used to take a small catch within range of shore; it was only in 1930 that they began to use factory ships to bring in industrial-sized catches.
6. Japan is targeted by Australia more than, say, Norway, specificaly for reasons 2, and 3.
I might also remind Curzon of Japan’s history with regard to whaling. The League of Nations raised concerns about the over-exploitation of whale stocks (perhaps due to the falling price of whale oil) and called for conservation measures in 1925. This eventually led to the Geneva Convention for the Regulation of Whaling which was presented in 1931 but did not enter into force until 1934 and was completely ignored by Japan.
As a result Japan almost single-handedly wiped out the Blue Whale. Had it not been for concerted, international pressure, Japan would almost certainly had destroyed several whale species. Thats the Japanese whaling pedigree: complete disregard for sustainable hunting, or for other countries sharing in what is a special, finite resource.
Thanks for that, hoju_saram.
But it does make me wonder. I find Japanese attitudes toward whaling to be completely at odds with what are often rather enlightened attitudes towards matters environmental and ecological…
I would more equate Japan’s government to Roh Moo-hyun than Australia’s government – incompetent, inherently stupid, and anti-American, pro-China. Just ignore the Japonophile apologists.
I wish the Australians would simply sink any fishing ship they catch that is poaching and it would not only be Japanese ships but Spanish, Italian, etc. That would most certainly put an end to the deliberate poaching that too many European countries allow.
‘They hunt these animals in what Australia considers its own territorial waters. Australia designated and manages the Australian Antarctic Territory’
nobody recognizes australia’s claim since it’s ‘claim’ goes from australia to antartica. that’s why they don’t bring out the war ships. the areas in which the japanese hunt whale are considered international waters by the world community.
‘Whale-watching is an important industry in Australia and the South Pacific. ‘
the japanese hunt mink whales which are plentiful. thus, this argument is dishonest and neither here nor there.
‘Some Japanese also claim a cultural and historical mandate for hunting whales.’
they don’t need to be honest nor do they need to prove anything to the australiens who have no business telling the japanese what they can and cannot eat.
australia is a small and unimportant country. if it’s economy collapsed today, noblody would notice or care. i think the aussie better be careful here lest japan decides to punish him.
For such an unimportant country it sure seems to have got under your skin Pawi. How many references to Australia is this? I think you forgot to mention the lack of culture.
And if Hoju didn’t supply coal and iron ore to China the costs of these resources or the products they produce would increase quite a bit.
The japanese hunt mink… um are you sure that is all. I think it is you that is being dishonest. Again.
But no reason for facts and logic to get in the way of being an angry little troll right Pawi?
ps i forgot to mention australia has no culture to call it’s own.
Well, the new “Korean” foreign policy fits right in line with what they show on TV in Hojuland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbRoCFlNfkQ
Actually, many countries do — from memory UK, New Zealand, France and Norway. And Japan only opposed the Territory when the whaling issue reared its head.
Also, as I already mentioned, Australia doesn’t use this territory for its own gain. It manages the territory under the auspices of the Antarctic Treaty System and its conventions, whereby:
1. The AAT is used for peaceful purposes only;
2. There is freedom of scientific investigation and cooperation by all nations
3. There is a prohibition of all military activity and testing, specifically nuclear.
4. Antarctic Fauna and Flora is protected
5. Antarctic Marine Living Resources are protected.
6. There is a prohibition of all activities relating to mineral resources except scientific.
You’d have to agree that these are all fairly noble, (non-commercial) altruistic conventions.
Surely you can understand why some people would be pissed, given the amount of money and effort Australia has put into studying and protecting the environment in the AAT, that Japan would drive a fleet of factory ships down there and start butchering the local fauna.
Actually, they also hunt Fin whales, and it was only in 2007, after the US stepped in, that Japan agreed to stop hunting the vulnerable Humpback. Also, nobody knows for sure how many Minkes are left, or whether Japan hunts other whales.
We do know that the blue whales of the Antarctic — a species Japan was barely prevented from hunting to extinction — are at less than 1 percent of their original abundance, despite 40 years of complete protection.
A salient point, unless they’re eating something that is a finite resource, from a territory set up to preserve that resource, which other people would like to share in.
Let’s hope it stays that way.
They already tried, it didn’t work out for them.
I doubt they’d be willing to tread that path again, even for the love of whaling.
‘Actually, many countries do — from memory UK, New Zealand, France and Norway.’
it ain’t recognized internationally. where japan hunts whale is in international waters. the australiens have no authority to do anything about it except makes asses of themselves like YOU are doing here.
stop being dishonest; it ain’t australia’s territorial waters.
I’m not sure enlightened is the right word, but I certainly agree that there is a disparity in the way westerners view animals, with the way they’re viewed in Asia.
I think the idea of preserving fauna for future generations to appreciate, is not something that is a high priority in either Japan, Korea, China or any other country in the region — unless it happens to be exceedingly cute, or a national symbol, like the panda.
I think it’s a cultural, maybe historical issue. People in the west haven’t had to deal with starvation for hundreds of years — so animals are more likely to be viewed as “companions” and “pets”, rather than just as a food source. I’ve followed the whaling debate, and nothing makes the Japanese more incredulous than Australians talking about whales in terms of how “magnificent” they are, or that they are “intelligent”. There’s a definite disconnect there, and you can get a better handle on that disconnect when you see how animals are treated in Japan.
I’m generalizing of course. But I think the fundamental difference in how people view animals in the west and in the east is at the heart of the issue.
Pawi might do well to remember the sacrifices that Aussie soldiers made for his ancestral shithole. Or maybe he has no issue with the fact that if not for those and other foreign troops him and his worthless bloodline would be marching behind a T32 tank every May Day singing Stalinist dirges to honor the great leader. Tell you what you buck-toothed savage, I would dare you to step foot inside any suburban RSL (veterans association) and say what you just did.
Someone remind me not to reply to this guy again. It reminds me of the time I tried to be nice and chat to my (large) handicapped cousin-in-law at a dinner party, and ended up getting a handful of hair pulled out.
you don’t need to talk to me. you need to stop telling lies. the waters where japan hunts whale is in international waters. it ain’t australien territory and that’s a fact.
‘but I certainly agree that there is a disparity in the way westerners view animals, with the way they’re viewed in Asia. ‘
the ‘disparity’ is rather recent and australia makes a good chunk of money exporting animal flesh to other nations. that means this all comes down to a bunch of arrogant australiens trying to tell asians what they can and cannot eat based on their hubristic sensibilitites.
it ain’t nothing more than that.
“ps i forgot to mention australia has no culture to call it’s own.”
Yeah, just a mere 40,000 years or more (maybe 75,000?) of continuous culture, probably the longest continuous society on the planet, which means – um – let me see, at least 8 times the claimed length of Korean culture… and an estimated 500 languages, of extreme linguistic diversity… which, er, must be 500x – well to be conservative at least 200x – the linguistic diversity of Korea?
And of course should we take the advice of one country’s people not daring to meddle in the affairs of another, well we should just accept Apartheid, and Fascism, and a host of other offenses against human dignity… way to go, fella…
The author should admit too that, of all the former Korean presidents, despite his follies, Roh Moo-hyun was genuinely liked by many people.
… not to mention that Roh did have certain significant achievements that other presidents in his position likely would not have achieved.
Too many arguments…most of which is misleading and one sided.
Fact is, what Japans doing sucks to the bazillionth degree.
But, what they’re doing isn’t really illegal….
They’re not the only country hunting or destroying a species to extinction, directly or indirectly.
That doesn’t excuse them for what they’re doing though.
Where can I try some whale meat? I’m intrigued.
I’ll specifically ask for whale meat that was harvested in Australian waters by the Japanese for “scientific research”. YUM.
‘Yeah, just a mere 40,000 years or more (maybe 75,000?) of continuous culture…’
koori culture isn’t australien but nice try.
TF – I went to a spring festival in some town a few hours south of Seoul, there’s a naval base there, with a “turtle ship” recreation on public display, but the name of the city eludes me. Anyway there were a few restaurants selling whale meat cooked in various fashions. The blubber is essentially tasteless fat, no flavor whatsoever. The meat itself had a very dark purple color to it, which, as was explained to me by the proprietor, was due to the whale blood containing massive amounts of hemoglobin to allow it to hold its breath for long periods of time. This meat was far worse than the tasteless blubber, it had an overpowering metallic taste, like swallowing powdered rusty nails. I and my 3 Korean companions were unable to finish the meal and swore of further whale meat consumption. These are gastronomical lightweights either, combine we could probably eat 2 dogs and a platter of 홍어회 in a sitting.
“koori culture isn’t australien but nice try.” @26
You mean I suppose that Australian indigenous aboriginal culture is in some mysterious sense not Australian, but that Australian European culture is.
Yeah, sure. Whatever you say, as you use English, wear European clothes, drive a car or take the subway, live in an apartment, use the Internet. You live a very Hanguk-centric life indeed…
perhaps you can direct me to some photots of white australiens dressed up in koori garb.
pawi, you mean like these guys?
http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/files/morethanthegames/shabalindomnina.jpg
Pawi, how does it feel to be a middle-aged man with the spelling, writing and debating skills of a petulant 6-year-old?
tinyflowers, thank you! i’m gonna have fun w that pic. i wonder why hugh jackman or nicole kidman never dress like that. you’d think they’d want to wear the national australien dress to promote australien culture throughout the world. lol.
Dude, are you stalking pawi? That’s like three comments in a row. He must really be getting to you.
pawi,
The whole reason they made a fuss about the Russian skaters dressing like that is because it makes a mockery of Europeans co-opting aboriginal cultures as their own. It kind of puts things into perspective when people say shit like this:
“just a mere 40,000 years or more (maybe 75,000?) of continuous culture, probably the longest continuous society on the planet”
Go ahead and put on that face paint and claim someone else’s history, someone else’s culture as your own – a culture you took part in destroying. With your 75,000 years of culture and enlightenment, surely you’ve earned the right to tell other people around the world what they can and cannot eat.
Am I stalking him? No more so than you are running around after him and cleaning up his shit or pulling his plonker. The issue with regards to the skaters is one of the appropriate use of Aboriginal cultural symbols, which have a deeply religious element to them as well. Regarding destruction of Aboriginal culture, sure, there were considerable European efforts to do so until the seventies, but you could hardly lay that claim on the current Australian government. And for all Pawi’s supposed knowledge of Australian indigenous culture, he is just a little too thick to realize that ‘Koori’ only refers to the native inhabitants of the southern part of the continent. Murri is used in my native Queensland as a self-referential term, as is Nunga in the west. His is a unique arrogance born of a unique combination of the cultural vacuum of the suburbs of the US and the ingrained, ethnic self belief in his own (imagined) significance. Nothing more, nothing less.
“Go ahead and put on that face paint and claim someone else’s history, someone else’s culture as your own – a culture you took part in destroying.”
Could just as well tell you and your lot to go shove a hanbok up your asses as you all decided the ROK lacked the opportunities given to you by your real country.
“Go ahead and put on that face paint and claim someone else’s history, someone else’s culture as your own…”
Well that is kind of revealing of the mindset of the author; presumably non-aboriginal australians (which I am not), although (the only) genuine australians in your eyes, cannot share in indigenous australian culture, but must maintain an absolute disjunction. Nor can they take any pride in that indigenous culture. Kinda prescriptive, no? An Apartheid mindset?
Oh, this is all going very well.
As a non-Aboriginal Australian, I would like to completely disown this entire comment thread (sorry, hoju_saram) and not participate in it at all except for this post.
pawi and aaronm: job well done!
“Could just as well tell you and your lot to go shove a hanbok up your asses as you all decided the ROK lacked the opportunities given to you by your real country.”
The archive says you are the Australian living in Indonesia. Go home. Go home back to England.
I’d like to coin a word and dedicate it to pawi: omnignorant — the polar opposite of omniscient.
Think about it. How many of us have encountered an individual of basic literacy in 2010 who holds the breadth and depth of benighted, banal, misinformed, uninformed, reactionary, bigoted or (fill in the adjective) views on SO MANY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS?
No, apparently they can’t, and not just in my eyes. A lot of people find it offensive when white people paint themselves up like indigenous people and parade around (note the controversy with the Russian skaters). I find that offensive as well.
It’s like rubbing it in to the people that you destroyed. Not only taking their land, but also their history, their culture, their identity. And then using that stolen history and culture as a counterpoint to the argument that Australia has no culture of its own is just too rich.
Looks like aaronms done it now and pissed off the local magic muzzlims! Didn’t he call Indonesians monkeys? He must be getting brave, and stupid.
You can do that??? Shoot, I would have done this with more than a few threads out here if I knew!
“No, apparently they can’t, and not just in my eyes. A lot of people find it offensive when white people paint themselves up like indigenous people and parade around…” @42:
I do not argue for that, and regard your inference as facile. To share in that sense is not to ape, but to appreciate (to a degree). Nor do I argue for appropriating history and culture. But your viewpoint assumes that the cultural realities of diverse individuals can in some sense be strictly differentiated from one another on the basis of, I suppose, their ethnic makeup. As if they can and should be completely distinct, and not allow for overlap. Which is absurd.
For what then do you argue, if anything? That aboriginal culture is not Australian? That modern westernized Australian culture is not also Australian? That indigenous culture has no place in the modern world? That the modern has no place in the traditional world?
Why also pretend to speak for that indigenous culture?
As for daring to tell other people what they might or might not eat (@34), you have no problem with many many species going extinct because of unenlightened harvesting or man-made pollution? The world we live in has no other end than to serve mankind? Omniarrogant stance, is it not?
Isn’t Australian territory Pawi? Well it is claimed by Australia, recognised by the other Antartic nations, none of it is counter claimed by any other country, there are no other inhabitants of these teritories and they are within the EEZ of Australia.
Japan saying it does not recognise Australia’s claim doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It is just Japan doing what Japan does. I could point to several other territorial claims that Japan doesn’t recognise but you seem very familiar with them Pawi. In fact you are usually foaming at the mouth when ever anything related to Japan happens (nice blog) which makes me wonder what Australia did to you to hurt your feelings so badly that you go into bat for your archnemesis? Just trying to get a rise?
I think you miss my point. It’s not that cultural identities can’t overlap. It’s just highly offensive to appropriate the cultural identity and history of a conquered people and trot it out when convenient to bolster your own lacking culture.
I don’t. That’s what you do. Hell, not only do you speak for them, you OWN their indigenous culture. It’s YOURS.
Yes it is, and what you describe is a quintessentially Western worldview.
Actually, the truth is the world we live in has no other end than to serve the fragile conscience of some bleeding heart animal rights nazis.
As a non-Australian, in what sense do I own these cultures? How are they mine? By the simple act of recognizing their credibility? By listening to them?
As for man as the center of creation being a quintessentially Western worldview, that is simply poor metaphysics which cannot recognize the translucence of the transcendent self. A common attitude in the modern age perhaps, which thrives on a stubborn refusal to introspect, but you do little to dispel that confused Weltanschauung.
As for my missing your point, you have consistently avoided mine, so adieu..
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