Well, I guess I have to post it:
Lee Jung-su, the South Korean gold winner at the men’s 1,500-meter short-track, accused Ohno of being “unqualified” to share the same awarding podium, publicly criticizing Ohno’s rough play that was reportedly often done in a subtle manner and therefore went unnoticed in the eyes of the referees.
“Ohno didn’t deserve to stand on the same medal podium,” Lee said, Yonhap News Agency reported.
Lee was commenting on the manner Ohno played in the same match where the latter earned the silver by windfall when two other South Korean gold favorites — Sung Si-bak and Lee Ho-suk — crashed into each other in their final stretch toward the finish. Ohno was trailing behind them.
“Okay, it’s technically not a foul play as long as the referees didn’t notice. But (Ohno) used his arms too aggressively today.”
Lee fumed: “I was so enraged that it was difficult for me to contain myself even as I was doing a winner’s ceremony.”
Hmmm, and it was Ohno who made the 스포츠맨십 정신에 어긋나는 망언, right?
The Newsweek blog has a much kinder review of what took place:
And it absolutely was a war. Ohno and the three Koreans led the field, jockeying on every turn for position. As Ohno was holding off a Korean on the outside, another Korean would pass on the inside. “It was just a fight,” Ohno said afterwards. “I was fighting with one Korean and then I passed him and was fighting with another Korean. There was a lot of bumping, a lot of contact. I got tangled up.”
Ohno says he was in the best shape of his life, which put pressure on his opponents and forced them to resort to more physical tactics. He endured more bumping, contact and tangles than anyone else and, against an exceptionally talented trio, it eventually took its toll. With a lap-and-a-half to go, one Korean grabbed him and, he felt, impeded him beyond what is normal for the sport. “I never had anyone hold onto my leg or my arm that long.”
It cost him his pace and by the final lap, all three Koreans had moved in front of him and appeared headed for a medal sweep. What happened next was extraordinary, almost unimaginable. Perhaps the combat had taken a toll on the Koreans too. Perhaps they were distracted by the prospect of one last Ohno rush. Most likely, after skating in perfect harmony with his teammates, Lee Ho-suk saw a chance to nip his countryman with a brazen move in the final few yards. Whatever, the gods of short track clearly decided to smile on Ohno for his ferocious effort.
In the final turn, Lee, in second place, lost his footing, wiping out his teammate behind him and the two slid together into the boards. Lee Jung-su, the top-rated skater in the world who was slight ahead and just out of harm’s way, claimed the gold medal. But Ohno had a clear path to his silver and the American record. As an added bonus, Celski, the 19-year-old who idolized Ohno as a kid and took up the sport after watching Ohno’s performance in Salt Lake, skated home for the bronze.
Talk amongst yourselves.
(HT to reader)
{ 167 comments… read them below or add one }
I’ll say this first: This is Apolo’s third Olympics. Think about that. For an athlete to compete at the highest level for so long is incredible. If you recall, Ian Thorpe who was such a dominant swimmer in 2000 and 2004 was not even around for 2008.
I did hate his guts in 2002, but I have now come to respect him.
he didn’t get the gold, did he? he won the silver by default. an ‘empty victory’ is what i say.
8 years is certainly an achievement but hardly incredible, many athletes have managed three olympics. (even ignoring sports such as equestrian and sailing where the record is nine olympics),
What does that make Steve Redgrave, Gold in five successive Olympics 1984-2000 twice as long as Ohno.
A silver is never a victory. Whether empty, full, or somewhere in the middle. Victory is solely the gold.
“He won the silver by default” ? By default, you say.
You really are illiterate, aren’t you?
how is it an empty victory? the Koreans couldn’t work well as a team in the end, and it cost them 2 medals. falls and failures are part of what a sport is.
A lot of athletes have off days. It really doesn’t matter what your world ranking is going into the olympics. It’s one race to the finish. You screw up, somebody else is going to win. That’s the game. Learn the rules.
@ #1,
Like I said, Ohno will make the short track just as popular in the U.S. as it is in Korea. Funny… at the end of the day.
yeah, i think you need to shut and work on a coherent response to lollbrats.
There is always a lot of sneaky cock-blocking done, as what is described above, and often ends up ruining everything. Lee should shut his sneaky pie-hole, take his medal and get off the stage.
Hey look soldout is still around! LOL. Couldn’t stand the heat in real life but what a trooper online! So are you working on a response to lollabrats? cos you know, he pretty much skullfucked you.
Cut it out, tinyflowers.
I didn’t see the semi-final that abcdefg referred to, so I don’t have an opinion on that. Nothing that I saw in the final, however, suggested foul play. Regardless, right or wrong, Lee’s comments amount to nothing more than pandering to the home crowd and it strikes me as bad form to speak so directly of a fellow competitor (yeah, yeah, I’m aware of the history). No doubt others here will disagree with me, but I think it reflects badly on Lee. I’d be interested to hear what other (non-Korean and non-American) speed skaters think of Ohno…and Lee.
i’ve seen the races a zillion times thanks to our friends at sbs and didnt see anything out of the ordinary, as they say in neckcar “rubbin is racin”
is anybody else sick as hell of the sore loser attitude of korean athletes? remember the boxer in ’88 who sat in the ring for like an hour as a protest after not getting the decision, or what the netizens did threaten to the swiss embassy and how they shut down the fifa site after the game in the last world cup? talk about your sore losers
I found about 2 out of 5 comments when I looked at the Korean msg boards saying that Lee was a immature/bad sportsman himself for being so direct about his feelings about another competitor – the comments said it’s not in his place to be so openly critical about the someone who was awarded the medal by the sports body, fair and square, no matter what the history.
That was when I looked yesterday.
I did see the semi-final. Lee nearly went out because Ohno touched (pushed) him, I suspect he was still fuming about that, rather than pandering to the home crowd.
However, I have also read that Ohno is just known for being not liked in within skating circle because of his style – including non-Koreans (it was an Italian, I remember)
I don’t know if they are sore “losers” – one gold medal is a winner enough, compared to getting a jammy silver no?
On a non-Ohno, but still Olympic note, I’d like to see some development and interest in Korea in Olympic winter sports other than skating. Anyone know of some Korean prospects to watch for in something else like Alpine or freestyle skiing, or maybe snowboarding?? It’d be nice to see that get a little attention here, or even just a broadening beyond short-track.
Who’s the sore loser NOW?
I don’t know, this is a classic case of both sides just as bad.
Anyway, what I noticed is that the Koreans suffer from having the similar one syllable name, as the Chinese do. They are all called Lee Kim Parks so that they remain rather annoymous and bunch – “the Koreans ALWAYS do this” and “ALWAYS do that” instead of being identified and encouraged on their own merit. This is across all sports. Yuna Kim at least has the first name that most snot nosed man-children can remember from Final Fantasy 10 – I somehow think that it would not have been the same if she was called “Won-Kyung Park” or “Jung-Won Kim” or something.
However, I have started to notice that the teenage kids who compete are looking better and more individual and cute – like 이정수 or 이승훈 the Speed Skating Silver who had to change to Speed because he couldn’t qualify for short track – he’s gaining much popularity amongst the Koreans. That’s a real hero – to have to change and still do your best. And good looking to boot.
As I wrote on my post, the Korea Times and the local media are really doing a number to Ohno’s comments. The Times wrote:
***
Exhilarated Ohno revealed in an interview after the awarding ceremony that he was actually hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him ? all three South Korean athletes, according to Yonhap News Agency, which cited the interview transcripts posted on “INFO 2010,” a web site managed by the winter sports organizing committee.
***
but if you look at the story on the official Vancouver Olympics site—”INFO 2010″ turns up nothing in English—you’ll see that wasn’t his point at all. Yonhap looking to stir up trouble and hate by citing an interview in a language they don’t understand, and the Korea Times naturally jumping on board.
“At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City. ” ohno
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/14/AR2010021400709.html
looks like brian is looking to stir up hate. that isn’t hard to do when the majority of his audience is just like him. go look at the comments. they’re just fuming (just like him).
when will you be leaving?
It looks like the Korean media was reporting exactly what he said. What say you “Brian D”?
Will you be retracting your post now?
To show that you are not biased?
What a poor sport. Get’s a gift silver and cries about it afterward.
Surely, Yuna, you can agree that there is a slight difference in tone between:
“I definitely don’t think it’s typical, not in my sport,” he said on a conference call wth reporters. “I’ve never had anyone hold on to my leg or arm that long.”
“If it weren’t for that, the outcome would have been much different, given that I didn’t get impeded on.”
“The (earlier) bump allowed the others to catch up,” said Ohno, who didn’t offer up a complaint about the non-call. “That’s short track. When I saw those two guys lining up to pass on the final lap, I knew something was going to happen. It was a mistake on their part, and worked in my favor.”
“Everyone wants to win, and gets caught up in the emotions. All three of those Korean skaters are tough and strong. It was one of the hardest races I’ve skated in.”
-AND-
“Ohno didn’t deserve to stand on the same medal podium,” Lee said, Yonhap News Agency reported.
Lee fumed: “I was so enraged that it was difficult for me to contain myself even as I was doing a winner’s ceremony.”
You can debate whether it’s real or contrived, but in a battle of graciousness with Lee, Ohno wins hands down.
(btw. Art Thiel is a hilarious sports columnist.)
hello
Yeah, Iceberg, but if we go with your interpretation of that Ohno wa saying something like ,
“If I hadn’t got beaten, I would have won”
(Title: Ohno says he was impeded, might have won gold)
#21,
What about:
“At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City”
Looking for the officials to bail you out? That sounds like poor sportsmanship.
No, tinyflowers, but I’m not surprised you don’t think the Times is trying to get people riled up. Ohno’s comments aren’t any different than anything you’d read in an American paper after a big game or event. Not only is some language lost in translation, but some of the culture as well.
@Yuna
Like the title says, “might” have won. But in spite of his feelings, he managed to maintain a firm grip on his country’s flag.
@tiny
Though you could use a little more creativity, I will concede that you are a master baiter.
On a related note, the scope of the Olympic coverage on Korean TV seems to be particularly awful so far this year. Of course every country is going to favor its own athletes and specialized sports, BUT good lord, the 1500m short-track and 5000m speedskating finals have been rebroadcast in their entirety at least 20-25 times each already. And a womens hockey preliminary round match between Canada and Slovakia stays on air for all three periods even though the score was 18-0?! Please, please, please SBS Sports, show us something new. Use some common sense in moving around different events. And dial down the nationalism just a little.
Maybe this Italian’s comments were just lost in culture difference/translation. Sounds like Gangpeh?:
Some weren’t so, um, polite. “It’s absurd that the Korean was disqualified,” raged Italy’s Fabio Carta, his blond locks flouncing. “We should use a rifle on Ohno.”
Overaction on the pitch plus gracious speak equate 얄미움 innit.
Brian D,
Do you not realize how silly you look when you make a post ranting and raving about how the Times manufactured a quote, and that quote turns out to be true?
Do you not see the irony?
Not any more than you are. It’s the OLYMPICS for chrissakes! you don’t expect just a wee bit of nationalism from the sports pages?
The fact remains they reported the correct quote. You got sloppy and messed up.
Will you at least be issuing a correction? Or are you content to let the lie stand?
None of your readers seem to concerned about the truth. They’re having a good ole fashioned expat circle jerk over there.
Bullshit. Any NBA, NFL or MLB athlete that said what Ohno said would lose all respect. Can you name a single instance in American proffesional sports where the losing team said they hoped that the winning team gets disqualified?
LOL. iceberg. OK then.
“If I hadn’t got beaten, I might have won.”
Iceberg I gave you a +1 that.
Great Success!!
Okay, Yuna, I get it. You don’t like Ohno.
However, I don’t think we want to be citing the comments of injustice-perceiving Italians, do we? Cough, cough, 2002 World Cup, cough. (For the record, I personally thought the Italians had nothing to whine about.)
‘Will you at least be issuing a correction? Or are you content to let the lie stand?’
no, he won’t be, and yes, he’s content to let a lie stand. did you notice how his audience simply ignored kushibo when he showed that ohno said what what the k newspaper said he said?
No I don’t mind Ohno. Luck is OK in sports, as long as you don’t flaunt it in the opposition’s faces.
My point here today was that they (articles, Ohno himself everyone) always refer to “the Koreans”. e.g. The Korean came on strong, I was trying to overtake the Koreans, if it hadn’t been for the Koreans, blah blah” and this is because the Koreans have boring names.
We should strive for nice 한글 names.
I guess he has pretty low standards for truth on his blog then. Makes you wonder what other lies he gets away with.
If we hadn’t called him on it, he’d still be completely clueless.
Well we called him on it, and he’s still completely clueless.
Considering The last Olympic torch thuggery by the Chinese and their olympics, the rank commercialism that permeates the events and the IOC gladly letting arch-criminal Lee Kun Hee back on the council, I’ve had it with all of that and will watch none of it.
Um, Yuna he referred to the Korean ice skater like that because there was a race between him, and a tight pack of three Korean Ice skaters, and then some other people down the line. I am sure he would use that persons proper name if it was one individual rather than three people of shared nationality.
For the record short track is a filthy sport filled with cheating and luck. But the decent skaters manage to get through the constant competition amongst each other without such vindictiveness as displayed by the immature Lee.
One example was in a team short track event where the Korean team fell over, they feigned injury (if someone is injured before the final lap the race is rerun) to avoid being eliminated at the behest of their coach. The coaches actions were caught on camera though and the team disqualified. Several teams kept racing not knowing the race had been abandoned and that left them at a disadvantage for the rerun.
Ohno’s comments can be taken in perspective of the fact that after every race it is reviewed and often there are disqualifications before medals are awarded. Meaning, i thought i was impeded so i had hoped the culprit be punished as this is a common occurence in this sport.
When Stephen Bradbrury won his famous gold one of the early heats he got through because a Chinese skater pushed another skaters leg making them lose balance and fall over, he had practised it in training. This skater slowed before falling, a promising korean skater came in behind him and couldn’t avoid him but managed to not fall over. The Korean got disqualified. The Chinese skater made it to the final but did not get the gold he thought he deserved.
Korea should be rightly proud of the fact that they totally dominate short track, but the attitude of their skating team seems questionable and their coach must not be doing his job for such a thing to occur as happened in the 1500m.
[WeikuBoy yawns but fails to stir from slumber]
Are the Olympics on? Is that how the U.S. networks fill time between the Super Bowl and March Madness? How cute. Guess it’s better than soccer.
Wake me up when they get to pigure skating. Kristi Yamaguchi remains the most clutch athlete I’ve ever seen. She and Joe Montana should have mated and created a race of super beings.
‘I guess he has pretty low standards for truth on his blog then. Makes you wonder what other lies he gets away with. ‘
that’s why he’s being run out of korea. his whole blog is predicated on lies.
‘Ohno’s comments can be taken in perspective of the fact that after every race..’
love how these types make excuses for their own.
I saw the race, twice and still don’t give a hoot about the outcome. What I want to know is why they handed out flowers instead of medals….anyone?
Ah, now I remember why I usually avoid this comment section. So much “truth” going on, I just can’t handle it. That’s why I’m being run out of Korea, I guess, I can’t handle the three of you who know the score while the rest of us are totally clueless.
I’ll repeat, again, that the Times didn’t report on the correct quotation. In fact, the Times didn’t report ANY quotation, if you look at their article, they reported, incorrectly, on what they thought was the gist. There was no direct quotation from Ohno in the Times. So, no, you haven’t called me on anything, and judging from your posting history, I don’t think you ever will.
‘Ah, now I remember why I usually avoid this comment section.’
you avoid this place because you can’t control it. i love it when you run around your own blog threatening to delete people’s comments. you’ve been caught telling a lie. now wiggle out.
when will you be leaving korea?
‘Exhilarated Ohno revealed in an interview after the awarding ceremony that he was actually hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him ? all three South Korean athletes, according to Yonhap News Agency, which cited the interview transcripts posted on “INFO 2010,” a web site managed by the winter sports organizing committee.’ korea times
‘Though you’ll find a ton of articles mentioning “INFO 2010″ in Korean, nothing has turned up in English.’ brian dootsch re above statement
‘“At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City. ” ohno satement from washigton newspaper
I can’t believe I read through all these comments. HOLY DO NOT CARE!
Aren’t you contradicting yourself here? If they didn’t report ANY quotation, how could they have the WRONG quotation?
They didn’t quote him directly, they never claimed it was direct quote. But what they did report was perfectly accurate.
The Times:
Exhilarated Ohno revealed in an interview after the awarding ceremony that he was actually hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him
Brian D:
but if you look at the story on the official Vancouver Olympics site—”INFO 2010″ turns up nothing in English—you’ll see that wasn’t his point at all. Yonhap looking to stir up trouble and hate by citing an interview in a language they don’t understand, and the Korea Times naturally jumping on board.
Brian D:
Not nearly the same as “hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him,” as the Times and Yonhap report.
Ohno:
“At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City”
Sounds like you’re the one looking to stir up hate and trouble. Judging by your comment section, mission accomplished.
And I’m really surprised by your inability to admit and correct a mistake. What? You don’t want to upset the circle jerk? Who gives a fuck? Your ass is getting kicked out anyway. Do the right thing for once. Your blog is garbage, your commentors are braindead, your cultural “insights” are insipid and unoriginal and now I see that you’re struggling with the truth.
PS: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DVmkqk7uYeM/SXI6zVcdnrI/AAAAAAAAASY/7gh9vtdsOY0/s320/gtfo3cr.jpg
Do I have to start cracking down again?
Please, play nice. That’s all I ask.
that was funny, chiamatt.
is anybody else sick as hell of the sore loser attitude of korean athletes?
In this case it would be a case of sore winning, which I usually find worse.
FFS, he won the gold! He kicked Ohno’s ass! Can’t he be happy in the knowledge that he “vindicated” Korea for Ohno’s past “won-by-default” gold? As much as I dislike sore winning, I would have even rather seen a little arrogant “neener neener I’ve got your gold medal right here, Ohno. In your FACE!” than the current “not bothering to celebrate my gold so I can act even MORE indignant about Ohno” BS.
he won the silver by default. an ‘empty victory’ is what i say.
Just as any medal won by Koreans due to Ohno falling is an “empty victory”, I suppose.
‘he won the silver by default. an ‘empty victory’ is what i say.’ darth babushganoosh #50
You really are illiterate, aren’t you?
Hey, why don’t you guys push each other over so that Robert will disqualify you and I will win this nitwit argument by default?
Let’s try that again, this time with blockquotes
In this case it would be a case of sore winning, which I usually find worse.
FFS, he won the gold! He kicked Ohno’s ass! Can’t he be happy in the knowledge that he “vindicated” Korea for Ohno’s past “won-by-default” gold? As much as I dislike sore winning, I would have even rather seen a little arrogant “neener neener I’ve got your gold medal right here, Ohno. In your FACE!” than the current “not bothering to celebrate my gold so I can act even MORE indignant about Ohno” BS.
Just as any medal won by Koreans due to Ohno falling is an “empty victory”, I suppose.
That’s your quote. That would make you illiterate.
I haven`t watched the Olympics in years. Dont care anymore what country wins what. What are they fighting about anyway.
Do any of you actually know the rules before spouting off?
Didn’t think so.
I don’t mean to be a total jackass here (OK, you’re right, I actually do), but why do I get the feeling that a lot of the folks on this thread were picked last for sports as a kid?
The 1500m was a great race, with an exciting finish, and the best skater (sorry Ohno fans) actually wound up winning the gold. I mean, fuck, what do you all want? Gamesmanship and, yes, even the occasional screw-up, are part of sport. Jeez, deal with it.
Ohno’s silver was solid. He finished standing up. That’s kinda a requirement.
Cheers,
DLB
Just out of curiosity, how many other nations at the Olympics in Vancouver are behaving like the Koreans are this time around?
Now I’ve read that some Korean coach was whipping water bottles at a Chinese film crew, I don’t know how true that is however. If it is true, I’m sure Koreans will excuse such behavior by saying the Chinese were provoking them, but I do believe whipping a water bottle at someone is assault in Canada.
A history of bomb threats, death threats etc… Koreans have no one else to blame, but themselves for how foreigners are reacting. If others did this to the Koreans, they would be screaming bloody murder.
Stop acting like little children and maybe we would not be so harsh, But as Koreans love to say, “When in Rome/Korea, do as the Romans/Koreans do!” Koreans can’t really fault us for that, we are doing what they do!
As for the gyopo draft dodgers who ask Brian when he’s leaving, I ask them this …when are you gyopo draft dodgers going to man up and join the ROK military instead of letting everyone else do your duty for you?Until then, you can’t claim to be a real Korean or a real Korean man as I’ve heard soooo many times from Korean nationals. If a Korean national isn’t a real man for not serving, draft dodging gyopops can’t honestly speak for Korea, the Republic of.
i love guys like johnt. all huffy puffy with teeth clenched. i hope he keeps entertaining me.
ps darthee, that was your quote not mine.
Wow what original thoughts this JohnT has! Yet another impressive expat.
Looks like Brian D’s been busy deleting comments.
Eh…..What’s done is done. Lee was clearly the best skater out there and deservedly won the gold. As for the other two guys, crashing is a part of the race, and Ohno and Celski benefited from it. Steven Bradbury, who needed a DQ to qualify for the final in 2002, benefited from an epic crash to win 1000m gold. The presence of crashes definitely adds an interesting variable to racing strategy and results.
As for the rest of the Games, I’m looking forward to a great ice hockey tournament. Canada v. Russia, should it come to fruition, will be a great game. It would be great to see Crosby and Ovechkin combine for at least 5 goals again.
Ohno is great. He is setting himself up as the “anti-spokesperson” for Korea.
What I mean is that he wants to become the national enemy number one. This is so great for him because from now on whatever he says Koreans are going to take the opposite view.
For example, he could be used greatly by advertizing industry as the anti-favorite campaign. A newspaper can carry an article that Ohno drinks brand X soju. As soon as the article becomes famous, the sale for X soju will decline by 50%. The sales of other brands go up by 50%.
See the power?
This can be used in politics as well. Ohno can be paid by LMB to say in public that Korea should move the capital to Sejong city. As soon as he says that the vote for LMB will increase by 50%.
Ohno is so smart.
All hail baduk!
King of janmeori and prolific speculative brainfarts.
You will only believe when it happens.
Ohno will be quoted in every Korean newspaper. Whatever he says will be known to all Koreans.
See the power?
After the Olympics, no one will give two shits about Ohno.
What sport at which event is this article about? It is not stated in the first line or two.
Maybe I shouldn’t bother asking. It’s not like I can hold this site to account for claiming to be a news site.
short-tack 1500. Both in the first line.
Ohno gets a gold medal for hotness.
Brian, etc, don’t worry about it, nothing you can say will change those on here. None of have answered questions about the korean guys comments, the grabbing, the bottle throwing, the constant, continuous moaning, and they never will. Instead they will defend Korea even when there is nothing to defend. Why? God knows. They win gold and straight away complain. That’s their lot, they love to complain and cry and jump up and down like spoilt little children who don’t get their way, and once you realise that then everything becomes easier. Continue to read the site, just ignore, well some of the other readers. That they resort to personal insults is also not surprising. Robert, seriously man, these people are just wrecking your site, say anything remotely bad about Korea, and this happens, personal attacks, you stay classy marmots hole
Lol, the moment I saw that the post was about Ohno and short track I knew the comment section was going to be… well, ‘active’ and ‘engaging’… in its own way.
I was a little surprised that Ohno was in 4th place before the crash at the end – post-race verbal diarrhea exchange aside, I was expecting him at least to be @ the 2nd if not 1st in this race given his track record (ha ha… I’m feeling very punny today). He definitely lucked out in this race, but he better get his shit together or he’ll have to wait until Sochi to break Bonnie Blair’s medal count (though Blair’s medals are almost all gold…).
This is coming from a guy who while criticizing the Lee Jung-su apologists accidentally slipped into “those fucking Koreans” ramble for half of the comment? Oh, the irony (especially with Ron Burgundy quote at the end)!
I so worried about what will happen if Kim Yuna doesn’t win gold. I remember the last world cup and the depression and anger that set in after. And figure skating is the most corrupt sport around.
I wonder what pure speed-skaters on the long-track think of their short-track brethren.
er, i am pretty sure i never once said “those fucking korean’s” nor criticized Lee Jung-su apologists, can you show me. As for the irony, well it seems to be the topic of choice here today, so when in….
“I can’t believe I read through all these comments. HOLY DO NOT CARE!”
Ha-ha-ha! All you did was waste your time reading a bunch of nonsense. You think that was a silly thing to do? I just spent three days nursing a sprained ankle, thinking of catching up on some reading and doing some work, but ending up staying up late into the night watching the Olympics coverage and writing posts that are way way too long, on this blog, getting annoyed by some anonymous person’s harmless opinions, but ending up getting more annoyed that I got annoyed enough in the first place to write posts that are way way too long, on this blog.
You wasted a couple of minutes of your life. I wasted a couple of days of mine.
You’re much wiser than I am.
This post, “Ohno,” in particular, contains further proof that I really need to ignore reader comments!
Which tells me nothing about what sport it is and where.
I’ll assume this is something to do with the Winter Olympics, but what the fuck is “short-track 1500″? Skating, skiing, shooting, ice-carving?
Gosh, I’m glad I’m not in Korea during the Olympics.
Get a fuckin’ grip, the lot of ya! It’s short track speed skating. It’s not like it’s a real sport.
#1, it’s his third Olympics in eight years. It’s not like he just took the beating Bret Farve did at age forty as he compiled his best stats to date. I’ll eat my words if he actually pulls a Farve or Dara Torres, but I doubt it.
#76, finally, a voice of reason.
The Koreans screwed themselves and were lucky that all three did not go down. Wouldn’t that have been something? You do not deserve a medal for doing the kind of stupid thing the Koreans did.
I heard that the two Koreans who went down already had a school-based rivalry going on, and that they did not even talk to each other at practice sessions.
If the Korean strategy was for the three Korean skaters to skate ass-to-balls to prevent Ohno from passing, then you have to work as a team. A big part of that silly sport is being able to weigh the risks of bunching up, which is what I think Ohno was talking about when he said that he was hoping the Koreans would disqualify themselves, which is exactly what they did. The Koreans bunched up, and they paid for it. Ohno was smart enough not to be a part of that mess.
I think the main reason Koreans do not like Ohno is that he is a smart skater who is always in control of his emotions, win or lose.
THIS PHOTO shows just how crazy the Koreans were skating.
Considering how this thread blew up, I cannot wait until Kim Yuna goes head to head with Mao Asada. No matter the result, it’s gonna be a riot in here!
How much press does this Ohno character get in the US? Because prior to coming to Korea, I’d never heard of him.
emphasis mine
You’re right. I should have clarified that “those fucking Koreans” was paraphrasing on my part. Doesn’t mean that I can’t smell the hardcore bitterness all the way here in Arizona.
Quite a bit (only during the Olympics season… just like every Olympics athletes ever).
A dramatic narrative dictates that Ando achieves a shocking from-the-behind win over both Kim and Asada… while the rational side of me thinks that it’s an almost certain win for Kim. As to which side I give more credence to… well, I’ll tell after February 25th.
Either way, you’re right. One way or the other, the Marmot’s Hole post that covers it will metaphorically explode in less than a day.
Anton Apolo Ohno was also on the fourth season of ABC’s Dancing With The Stars. Apparently he was the “big winner” of that season. I have no idea what the winner gets, although given what I know about the other winners of Dancing With The Stars, enrollment in the witness protection program seems to be included.
In the course of researching Ohno, though, I learned that his 2002 Salt Lake City skates are on display in the Smithsonian Insitution’s American history museum. So I guess his short-track story was kind of a big deal or something.
So, three Koreans worked together to beat a foreigner. But the moment they thought they had beaten him, they turned on each other and wiped each other out. As PJ O’Rourke would say, this is what we call a metaphor alert.
‘ As PJ O’Rourke would say, this is what we call a metaphor alert.’
and you strike me as a metaphor for ‘loser’. get over your anger.
It looks like I’ve smoked out a few of Brian D’s nut huggers.
I think I asked you to cut that out.
Robert, honestly, there’s far more nastiness in what I quoted than in my response.
“How much press does this Ohno character get in the US?”
Judging by the ratings, only enough for 10% of the population to even bother to tune into the coverage which is on par with an average episode of “American Idol” and about 7 1/3rd million viewers less than tuned in for the the 1994 Lillehammer games. Not very good since there are more people alive now than then.
http://www.cynopsis.com/editions/cynopsis/021610/#NBC's Opening Ceremony numbers from Nielsen
alexander February 16, 2010 at 8:50 am
Advantage Korea!
I’m back here in the US, so I didn’t get to see all the heats. However, I saw one of the heats Ohno won. He was skating in the back and then he made his move and all of a sudden was half a lap ahead of the field. All I could think was, “Damn, this guy IS good.”
Anyway, I tuned in for the final and I saw that there were three Koreans. I wondered how Ohno would change his strategy — the Koreans were probably too fast for him to make that kind of charge from the back. Anyway, the race was exciting and brutal. The Koreans were obviously, but not blatantly skating as a team. Ohno got jostled in every straight-away and he dished out his share, too. However, it was basically 3 on 1 as far as the jostling. Then towards the end of the race, some heavier jostling happened and Ohno obviously fell off the pace. I thought, “Oh Shit. At least one of the Koreans are going to get disqualified and Koreans are going to go off the deep end again.” Then in the last turn, Lee Ho-Suk makes about the worst passing attempt in the history of the sport. He was described as the favorite on the US broadcast and as the eldest member of the team. I think he got greedy for the gold right there.
A couple of notes: It seems like when there’s a Korean in the race, Ohno races with similar tactics as the Koreans use. When there isn’t, he uses different tactics. This seems smart.
One of the American coaches is Korean — he was ousted from the South Korean team with some controversy. We’ll see if he can instill the same fight into this Filipino kid who seems to be the future of the sport in the US.
Whenever there is more than one Korean in a race, a strict interpretation of the rules could almost always be used to disqualify at least one of the Koreans. When there is a judge from a sportsmanship-loving culture like Australia, Canada, Dutch or Kiwi, typical Korean tactics carry more risk. When Ohno got his gold after the Korean DQ, the judge was Australian. I imagine the Korean coaches watch who the judges are and make tactical adjustments as necessary. If not, then Korea needs new coaches.
Ohno has figured out how to put out themes that will get the judges to look a little more closely at his treatment in the races. Childish outbursts like Lee Jung-su’s will only garner more scrutiny for what HE does in his races.
I can’t believe I read through all these comments again. HOLY STILL DO NOT CARE!
You know, Chiamatt, neither do I . . . though reading these posts about the controversy is fascinating, like watching a train wreck as the cars just keep on piling up.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I felt Lee responded like a little child when he should have kept his mouth shut after winning the gold medal.
I felt Ohno spoke and acted like he was hot s**t…when all he did was win the silver…and as pawi said, by default.
Such is the nature of the sport. If winning a medal in such a way is “by default”, then there are a whole shitload of short track medal winners who win “by default” (and even more who qualify for medal rounds “by default”), whether Olympics or Worlds or wherever.
Darth, I MIGHT agree with you…but to win a medal (let’s say a GOLD) medal due to a default (in whatever format, be it a judge’s call in 2002 or disqualification of someone because of usage of stereoids at the 1988 Summer Olympics or whatever) seems like not the best way to win it. And looking at Ohno’s history with medals (whether the ruling be legit or not), I’m thinking that that’s a HECK of a way to be winning his medals. Kind of like the way Carl Lewis got the gold medal for the 100 m dash in the 1988 Summer Olympics; sure he may have deserved it because the other guy broke the rules and used stereoids…but it’s not quite the same thing as winning the race outright…and many of us Americans, who had followed the race closely between him and Ben Johnson and were cheering for Lewis…weren’t exactly in a celebratory mood after Johnson got caught with steroids in his system after the race (which, however you want to look at it, he won…albeit dishonestly). And if Lewis, upon getting the gold medal due to Johnson’s disqualification, had jumped up and down going, “I’m great. I can’t believe I’ve come full circle in my Olympic career”, even if he DID win the gold legitimately (which he did), it would have made him look arrogant…and a little silly.
Final point: I wrote the above words in reference to a GOLD medal. Ohno won the SILVER medal. Depending how you view the world and how it runs, that means he lost. Now I am not so black-and-white to say that the silver medal is nothing to be proud of…but on top of HOW he won the race (which I hear your point that s**t happens all the time in speed-skating and therefore should not be the point), Ohno came out of it….with a silver medal. It could just be personal preference on my part, but I find the guy speaking a little too grandly about winning a medal that essentially means “I lost the race” to be a little too full of self-importance in this case.
As for Lee, I really wish he had just kept his mouth shut instead of whining like a baby.
Vacationing in the UK and not seeing much Vancouver coverage at all — I guess because Britain is not terribly competitive in winter sport.
–As safe a bet as it normally is that the Korean media will get it dangerously or maliciosly wrong, this time Brian D SHOULD address his detractors about that KT quote/misquote/nonquote. That would have reduced this comment section by one third.
–As one who wishes Korea and Koreans (aside from those who run or apologize for the DPRK) well, I do wonder why seemingly nearly all of the notorious international examples of bad sportsmanship involve Koreans — mostly South but occasionally North. Some were noted above, but recall also the Ohno dance and the related booing of the US team at the World Cup in 02, the mercurial former Red Sox pitcher Lee hanging the finger at Fenway fans — and quite a few soccer incidents involving North Korea. Something in the water?
I dunno, if I was skating against Ohno and knew that he would likely talk trash afterwards, I would also try to pre-empt it by talking some shit. As long as I knew that it wouldn’t get out of hand of course.
Sure, the noble thing would be to turn the other cheek I guess, but how many of ya’ll would sit there and take punches? Fuck no, I wouldn’t.
The latest AFP article on the Ohno controversy really makes him out to be poor sport.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hjLMb8bJNmfxBpn75QuYzRj6sHUg
His reputation as a sportsman will go down the toilet during these games. Mark my words.
‘Ohno was seen pushing Lee in the semi-final in a video clip…’ afp
Oh yeah the video evidence is irrefutable.
Hey does anyone remember Ohno’s Goldern Medal Moment in 2002:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lxap4y0S1as/SE1-q3bxZEI/AAAAAAAACG0/MLtAK8Wdd_U/s400/ohno+and+kim.jpg
buahahahahaha. what a pansy.
The AFP article quotes ONLY Korean officials and athletes and media on all the salient points (Ohno’s quote is an aside, not a balancer), and in the tendentious way that that French news agency is too often known for doing.
To wit: (my observations in parentheses)
VANCOUVER — US short track skater Apolo Anton Ohno has been portrayed (by rival coaches and athletes and by the media of a nation supremely INVESTED in hating him) as unworthy of a medal in a worrying echo of the bitter resentment which erupted between America and South Korea (Well actually only by South Korea toward an America that had barely heard of the sport or of Ohno) at the controversial (in South Korea) 2002 Olympics.
Ohno finished runner-up to Lee Jung-Su after two other leading Koreans, Sung Si-Bak and Lee Ho-Suk, collided and crashed into the boards around the final turn in the men’s 1500m final on Saturday at the Vancouver Olympics.
But Korean media slammed Ohno’s (need I say more) post-race comments that Korean skaters deserved to be disqualified in a fresh flare-up of the antipathy which surrounded him after he won the same event at the 2002 Salt Lake City Games.
In the US city, South Korean star Kim Dong-Sung finished first in the 1500m final but was disqualified for blocking Ohno around the final turn.
“I was hoping there was going to be another disqualification like in Salt Lake City,” Ohno told reporters.
“The whole race there was a lot of contact, bumping, grabbing. It was a crazy race,” added 27-year-old Ohno, who also won the 500m gold in Turin four years ago. “Typically in short track, there’s not supposed to have any contact, or very little contact.”
But (impartial observer?) Lee Jung-Su told Korean media (who didn’t need any convincing) it was Ohno that was “swinging his arms violently” in the semi-finals and final without showing it to the referees.
“He did not deserve to stand on the podium,” Lee said.
Ohno was seen pushing Lee in the semi-final in a video clip which was repeatedly played on Korean television (and nowhere else?) , according to a member of the South Korean delegation (who may or may not have seen it and would say the same thing in any case) in Vancouver.
“Now the bad feeling toward him seems to be coming back,” the official said. (It never left, you dipshit. Ohno had to skip a competition in your country three years AFTER Salt Lake because of DEATH THREATS)
Ohno was seen throwing up his arms behind Kim in the Salt Lake City final as if he was blocked, a gesture widely mocked by Korean media (the usual suspects again) as “Hollywood action” at that time.
Some points to take away:
-Even if the Korean media were known for their accuracy and balance when it comes to emotive issues that stir nationalist feelings in Korea — i.e. practically everything — we simply cannot trust an article pinned almost entirely on Korea’s version of the events of both 2002 and 2010.
-AFP plays the fastest and loosest among major Western news organizations. They win their on-line eyeballs with controversy and edginess — sometimes at the expense of accuracy and balance. Sports news is usually handled faster and more loosely than say political news in every media culture. I’d bet Canadian dollars to Tim Horton’s donuts that this piece was written by the Korean staffer they sent from Seoul to cover these events because he had both the necessary context and linguistic skills.
I care little about the Olympics beyond entertainment value on winter nights and my interest in the various versions of speed skating is about on par with my interest in tinyflower’s banal and sophomoric musings about Canadian and Australian culture on another thread. That said, I’m quite happy that Korea has found a winter niche sport to dominate.
I have to ask: Since the people here doing all the hating on Ohno are KAs, is it an ethnic thing, because’s he’s half Japanese? He is after all competing under your flag, if you are keeping score the normal Olympic way.
If I were a European or North American city competing against Pyeongchang or Muju for the 2014 or 2018 Winter Games, I’d include this nearly decade of off-the-charts boorish and unsportsmanlike Korean behavior toward Ohno in my argument on why my city would be a better host. Just saying…
I personally don’t think a little trash talking is such a horrible thing. So I don’t mind what Ohno has said so far. I’m just saying, if its expected that Ohno will get dirty, then it’s perfectly normal for Lee to give it right back. Especially if statements can be proven true or false through video replays.
Who’s hating on Ohno, Slim? Name names on this blog.
And as I noticed at another blog, where Ohno’s legacy was being discussed, it was Ohno the individual being slammed (not saying that that’s right) while it was “the Koreans” as a whole people being slammed.
I’m an American (happens to be of Korean descent) who thinks Ohno’s a pansy…but I also felt Roy Jones, Jr. got totally ripped off when he lost his chances for a medal to the Korean boxer in 1988 when Jones clearly won…and who was glad Carl Lewis won the 1988 100 M. Dash against Canada’s Ben Johnson…but wasn’t comfortable HOW he won it (with Johnson being disqualified for steroid use). If Lewis had been bragging after THAT race and getting a gold medal, I would have thought HIM an arrogant pansy. And no, slim, that has nothing to do with him being African-American…like my thinking Ohno as a pansy has nothing to do with him being half-Japanese.
Slim, yeah, I think Ohno’s a little arrogant kid…but like I said before (but which apparently got ignored by you) I wish gold-medal winner Lee would shut the hell up and quit whining as well. It’s disgraceful.
But alas, you’re stereotyped, generalized views of us Korean-Americans has already been established, and I doubt anything with change your mind soon.
BTW, glad to be back commenters at the Marmot’s Hole!
Hey Slim, why did you cut off a piece of the article in your quote? I mean it’s one thing to add your own notes to the article but to alter the content of it to do so is pretty low.
nobody hating on ohno. show me where anybody is calling him on his ethnic background. please be honest, slim.
TF – I cut background paras (meddle count etc) for length reasons and did not alter content. I should have made it clear that I cut that but it does not affect the issue whatsoever. The AFP article was sloppy itself, and ws based on even sloppier work.
JK – I have no stereotyped view of KAs. But it is not lost on me that the only haters of Ohno in this instance ARE KAs: tinyflowers, pawi, JW…. note I do not say that all KAs hate Ohno. (You JK come down as moderate, but I don’t see your views on Roy Jones as being at all relevant to the Vancouver kerfuffle. It is a no-brainer to see Lee as an ass on the medals podium.)
But how do you arrive at your conclusion that Ohno is an “arrogant kid?” He may well be, but I have no way of knowing. Recall that his response to the Salt Lake flap in 2002 was to welcome the attention to an obscure sport — and to complain about the Korean TV crews that harassed his father at his hair salon in Seattle. It seems that Ohno only cuts a bad figure when depicted in the Korean media.
It would be very interesting if the hot shot US skater in question was named Apolo Anton Kim. Would the usual rules and patterns apply?
I agree with you JK, the guy is just a punk through and through. Can you imagine someone pulling such a bitch move in the NBA? He’d be dismissed as a flopper and lose all respect. As an NBA fan, as an MLB fan, as an American sports fan I know this punk isn’t representative of American sportsmanship.
Go to a real American sports bar and inquire about Ohno and you’ll get laughed at. The lowliest scrub in the NBA gets more respect than Ohno. The kid is better known for his appearance on Dancing with the Stars, prancing about like an idiot.
I mean just look at him:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/slideshow/ALeqM5hjLMb8bJNmfxBpn75QuYzRj6sHUg?index=0
You can tell he’s a douchebag, all proud of his gift silver. And then the punk has the nerve to call for disqualifications afterwards! As an American sports fan I’m embarrassed by his behavior. Not only is he undeserving to stand on the podium. He’s undeserving to compete under the American flag.
correction: medal count
i’m going to ask you again: where is anybody making an issue of his race?
‘Since the people here doing all the hating on Ohno are KAs, is it an ethnic thing, because’s he’s half Japanese?’ slim
so far as i can tell, you’re the one making this a race issue.
i’m going to ask you again: where is anybody (besides you) making an issue of his race?
I agree — the quality his shit-talking is just pathetic compared to the real stuff we get to see in the NBA.
pawi,
Yup. No one cared about his Japanese heritage until slim came along and tried to stir up some shit. I’ve just been blasting Ohno as an athlete and a general douchebag.
Really wish slim would take his race baiting elsewhere.
‘Really wish slim would take his race baiting elsewhere. ‘
ditto
Isn’t it about time to bring this circle jerk to an end?
Back in the 90s, the English papers published the results of a survey of KAs. The purpose of the survey was to determine identity, how Korean and/or American were Korean-Americans. One of the questions was “Which country do you root for in the Olympics – Korea or the US?” As I recall, the numbers were about even. Ethnic Koreans in China seem less divided. A Joseonjok Yonsei student griped about all the identity/loyalty questions asked to her by Korean students, including the Olympics question, in an essay published in the Yonsei Chunchu entitled “Which Side Are You On?” She made it very clear in the essay that she was a proud citizen of the PRC.
Sonagi,
One must remember that the Koreans of the PRC had a hand in creating that country… hence they were rewarded with their own autonomous region.
Furthermore, on average, Koreans in China have been in China several generations longer than their U.S. counterparts… Length of stay affects national identity.
Your points are valid, Wangkon. Another factor is that ethnic Koreans in China have limited access to South Korean media, compared with KAs. Some better-off Joseonjok watch SK television via illegally installed satellite dishes. SK internet websites appear to fly under the GFW radar – I never had trouble viewing them – but full access is often limited to those able to register with SK national IDs.
yes, and you’re the same person who told us the koreans in jilin were almost all pro chinese and yet, according to the ‘english papers’, half of the 1 million foreigners in korea are ethnic koreans from china and that that are/were around 2 million of them in the prc.
ps the character in my gravatar means ‘cool’. i’m proud of my fellow american’s achievment as the runner-up.
You guys have short memories (At least in pawi’s case. Tinyflowers may have been very tiny back in 2002, given the generally infantile tone of his writings in 2010) and a poor grasp of the definition of race-baiting. I merely asked if his Japaneseness matters. It was a not insignificant sub-issue in 2002. I do think the handful of Korean nationalists of whatever passport that comment here tend to think with their blood, but I’ll take your word that it is not an issue for you.
But we are straying from the main point: the only way TF could conclude that Ohno is a “general douchebag” (and I do not question your personal authority on douchebaggery) without being there r at least privy to details of the whole kerffufle is to rely on one-sided KOREAN media accounts of the dispute — in one case filtered through AFP, rather uncritically. That was what stirred practically the entire Korean nation into paroxysms of douchebaggery in 2002. The election of douchebag Roh Moo-hyun (Rest in Pyongyang) was at least partly the fruit of that whole poisonous tree.
I’m no fan of Ohno, or of his sport, and I have spent more time writing these several comments tonight than I have spent or will spend watching or thinking about speed skating or short track in my life。I couldn’t tell you the overall medal count at Vancouver。
Standing with a gold medal on your neck and proclaiming that the silver medalist doesn‘t deserve to be on the podium — now THAT is an act of a douchebag。 Wishing that the officiating or penalty calls went your way， just like hundreds of football coaches or quarterbacks have done since Woodrow Wilson was in the White House， is a qualitatively different matter。That‘s why I am looking elsewhere for explanations for the Ohno hating。
Above all， I‘m flatly disappointed that the Korean sports establishment and their media haven’t grown up at all in eight years。This could cast a shadow on Pyeongchang。
Regarding the autonomous region, it’s autonomous in name only, and ethnic minorities in some autonomous regions, namely Tibet and Xinjiang, feel alienated from the PRC. Among the various minorities, ethnic Koreans seem highly assimilated. Unlike other minority areas, the Chaoxian autonomous area has long been home to Chinese of many ethnic groups, and there’s been no overt settlement policy to dilute the ethnic Korean population. In fact, quite the opposite, ethnic Koreans have left northeastern China to seek better job opportunities and a higher standard of living in Beijing and the the coastal cities.
half of the 1 million foreigners in korea are ethnic koreans from china
Economic migrates fluent in Korean!
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-korea-labor1-2010feb01,0,6753760.story
Kind of like Canadians in the U.S.!
Do you know what the Korean slur for Korean-Chinese is? 짬뽕! Hey, yeah I’m sharing it, but I didn’t make it up.
Like I said, you need to take your race issues elsewhere. Why are you trying to drive a wedge between Koreans and Japanese? Leave that to the nationalist crazies on either side.
Another thing about the Korean Chinese. Generally speaking, given their length of stay in China, their Korean is much better than a second generation Korean American’s Korean. Again. Generally speaking. But that’s because actual PRC money goes into Korean language education!
You are again missing the point， tiny flowers。I have no race issues and strictly speaking， this would be an ethnic issue。A wedge the size of the Sea of Japan already exists between those two peoples without my help。 Read more judiciously and address the real issues without further distractions or hang it up。The Ohno hatred here is not factually based。
Why are those two statements different? One guy is saying, I wish my opponent was disqualified (and therefore not standing on the podium) and the other guy is saying I wish my opponent was not standing on the podium. I’d give bonus points to the korean for being more direct and less weasel like .
Your assessment of the Korean language skills of Korean-Chinese is much more generous than that of South Korean nationals. Our school fired one translator because the Korean parents didn’t like her accent, and her replacement had high school students proofread her letters home. I don’t have enough digits on my hands and feet to count the number of times I heard Koreans of all ages complain about how Joseonjok spoke funny Korean. In China.
Sonagi,
I think South Korea should play an active role trying to make the Chaoxian autonomous prefecture a more economically viable region. Just think of it! 600k to a million fluent Korean speakers at PRC prices! White collar workforce outsourcing! Korean telemarketers with slight Mandarin accents!
Not sure why you keep on characterizing this as hatred. I’m just having some fun with this is all. You must be really annoyed to think that I seriously might care about his Japanese father, whom I have nothing in the world against. Why are you so annoyed???
Sonagi,
Ummm… saying that a Korean Chinese’s Korean is better than the average second generation Korean American’s Korean isn’t saying much. The reason why a Korean in Korea is more tolerant of a Korean American is because he/she speaks fluent English. They have the special Engrish power!
Wangkon, I’ve heard of 짱께 as an all too familiar slur for the chinese — remarkably some koreans do not even consider it to be a slur — but 짬뽕 for 조선족…I have yet to hear about. Where did you come across it?
Recent Seoul expats that I ran into in L.A. We were hanging around and ran into a few Korean Chinese and their funny sounding Korean. After the Korean Chinese left they sneered 짬뽕. Maybe it’s the newer term.
Fucking idiots! 짬뽕 is one of my all time favorite foods!
my focus is on the hypocrisy of people like slim and not on ohno’s race.
****
half a mil out of 2 is significant and belies the lies.
In an effort to turn this thread toward sweet reason, allow me to report that I just received a spam email for Viagra with the following subject heading:
“Viagra for Less!”
That certainly surprised me. All this time, I’d thought that Viagra was for more.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
lol how the hell is this an “ethnic issue”? Ever think that you see it as one because that’s where your mind is at? Ohno doesn’t even seem particularly Japanese to me.
So tell me professor, what are the “real issues” here? It seems you have reduced it all down to a single factor of race. Everything’s real black and white to you it seems.
Am I the only one who hopes all three Korean short-track skaters fall on their asses during the remaining short-track events at the Vancouver Olympics? I would especially like to see Lee Jeong-su on his smart-ass for his low-class remark saying Ohno does not deserve to stand on the awards podium.
The Korean media, as almost anyone similiar with Korea could have predicted, have misquoted Apolo Ohno and are engaging in a distorted Ohno Hatefest. For example, JoongAng Daily’s Yi Jung-jae described Ohno HERE as follows:
My hope is not that Ohno finishes ahead of the Korean skaters in the remaining events, but that all three Korean skaters wipe out on the last turns of the remaining events, allowing Ohno to win three more gold medals.
Yes, Bever. You are the only one.
Have you ever beaten by a bunch of Koreans when you were small? You seem to have emotional scar that goes way deep.
See a shrink. If you get healed, you may become a better man. Nah.
Sorry for mis-spelling your name, Beaver.
What is Beaver doing in Marmot’s hole? Picking fights?
No, Babuk. I just dislike Korean media lies and distortions, and the sore-loser attitude that many Koreans display.
::puts popcorn in the microwave::
::takes out popcorn::
::pours popcorn into a bowl::
::sits down::
::picks up a popcorn, chews::
So baduk, how about dem lies and distortions?
looks like mo took the silver which, according to recent threads, means he won the gold. sorry, ger. 떠나가
Mo? Is that the guy who finished behind the American, Pawi?
Mr. Bevers:
Not sure if you are the only one “who hopes all three Korean short-track skaters fall on their asses during the remaining short-track events at the Vancouver Olympics,” but you are certainly the only predictable one to both hope that and also utter that hope in public, in a place where you are sure to receive at least as many brickbats as bouquets.
Really, Gerry, what is with you? Do you think that this hope for Schadenfreude makes you any better than Lee Jeong-su?
Here’s my hope: the Olympics are scrapped as quickly as possible. What a waste of human resources and emotion. The modern Olympics are no less corrupt than the ancient ones. Why? Because people run them!
Let’s bring on Rollerball!
Another thing that is predictable, Hamel, is your not criticizing the Korean media’s smear campaign against Ohno. At least the Marmot managed to squeeze out a reluctant “Hmmm.”
Can anyone point me to the English version of the following quote reported HERE, which is attributed to Ohno?
I did not say Lee Jeong-su was unqualified for a medal, so, yes, I think I am better than that arrogant little punk.
Yeah, Gerry, it’s all I could say without risking being sent out of the proverbial house to work in the field.
Korean skater Seong Si-baek (244) grabs Ohno’s knee and continues to hold on to it until Ohno finally slaps his arm away, yet Korea’s SBS News ignores that fact and reports that Ohno committed a foul. You can see the video HERE.
TF – What is the issue?
These are well-laid out above by Bevers and myself (although I don’t share his wish for Korean failure) but I’ll spell it out for the reading comprehension impaired:
Korean media unprofessionalism, ultranationalism and bias. None of these are unique to Korea, of course, but they are extreme in Korea’s case in general and in Ohno’s case in particular. (see the Sunny Lee piece on the bibimbap flap excerpted above)
-Nearly everything that has been written about Ohno in Vancouver could have been composed in Seoul weeks or months or even years ago.
-Uncritical acceptance of the Korean media version of events by arguably 48 million people in the home country and certain overseas compatriates. The 2002 Salt Lake City case was nowhere near the travesty it was portrayed as, but this set the template for all future thinking on this skater.
I’m sure that if Ohno were to donate a kidney to save the life of the dying sister of one of Korean competitors, the Korean headline would be “Stingy bastard Ohno only offers Korea one kidney”
As for tinyflowers, as much as I hate making this about you, I must say that it pisses me off when people miss clear points stated in carefully chosen words. I posed the ethnicity issue (and again please learn the difference between race and ethnicity before you write another word on this issue) as an aside and in question form. I then took your word for it that it is not an issue for you in what turned out to be a futile attempt to get things back on track. It is is stupidity or dishonesty to claim I made it the central issue. You will never win arguments this way.
I think you already wiped out any cred you had with your fatuous “Australia and Canada have no culture” argument. I’m surprised you got off so lightly on that one, frankly.
slim, the issue is that gbevers is not stopping at pointing out the sensationalism-driven media. He’s now saying the korean athletes are cheaters, and saying he is wishing for their failures, I mean, bad enough Anton Ono says “I was hoping for the same i.e. disqualification” but G.Bevers is not going to get gold from the three failing. So what’s his point?
I wouldn’t go as far as that. I watched the race, I read what he said in the English newspapers. He’s OK, and it’s not his fault he’s lucky but there’s something about him that is just, let’s just say, not hugely inducing respect – maybe had he been a bit less gesture-prone.
I think we need to make a clear distinction between the Korean media sensationalism and the individual athletes’ character and talent, that the first don’t mar the second. When someone like Kim Yuna says “She feels blocked at the training session by other skaters” it should be taken as is, and not made exaggerated to some Korean trait just because of the bad track record of the media. It’s two separate things. The same for what happened here.
‘I think you already wiped out any cred you had with your fatuous “Australia and Canada have no culture” argument. I’m surprised you got off so lightly on that one, frankly.’
his cred depends on who you are. i find his cred cred. as for australia and canada having no culture of their own, i’m the one who said that. he ‘got off lightly’ because there’s really no counter argument there. neither coutry has a culture of it’s own. their culture is simply american culture. heck, they don’t even re-do it. they adopt it wholesale.
UN:F [1.8.2_1042]
Agreed up to a point, yuna, which is why I pointedly noted that I don’t share Bever’s wish for Korean failure. I wouldn’t call it cheating. Short track appears to be a mix of rollerball, water polo and NBA, where everyone tries to get away with whatever they can get away with and some succeed and others don’t. Nobody is innocent it seems. The calls apparently went Ohno’s way in 2002 and then did not there in Vancouver this week. You know that and I know that, but would a Korean newspaper dare write that?
I would take Kim Yuna’s word at face value because there simply isn’t nearly as much baggage in figure skating, despite the potential for it with the subjective judging the sport entails. Ms Kim seems to be a class act, which we simply cannot say about her ROK short track teammates.
pawi – If you limited that culture statement to mass, pop culture you’d be mostly correct, but it’s not that shocking that the largest entertainment and music market would be the benchmark for culture artists tying to make it on a world scale. Still, there are plenty of indie films and folk singers in both those Anglophone countries that don’t travel far beyond their borders. Stompin Tom Connors and The Tragically hip come to mind in Canadian music. Even relatively big deals at home like Kylie Minoque (sp?) from Australia (rightly IMHO) and Bruce Cockburn of Canada (unjustly IMHO) aren’t really all that big in the USA. Ditto many authors. Several Australians did beg to differ with you guys and cited decent evidence. I can’t explain the reticence of Canadians.
I haven’t been Australia or to parts of Canada besides Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia. But my travels in eastern Canada gave me a general feeling of Europeanness in architecture, social systems, values, tax levels… Much like Korea’s film policies, both Canada and Australia mandate certain percentages of radio air time to local content, as well.
Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand all represent the spawn of British Imperialism and colonialism so it would be surprising if they differed drastically. The deeper one digs, however, the more the claim that Canada and Australia have no culture to me starts to look as blunt and crude as saying “all ‘Orientals’ look alike.”
Ignoring obvious flame-baiting comments improves the readability of comment threads.
ok slim, but it’s really hard to see. i’ll change what i said to ‘it’s hard to see any cultural differences between australia and canada’s culture on one side and american culture on the other’. as for ne asian culture, it’s as easy as showing writing, language, and food. that would take about 5 seconds. keep in mind that both korea and japan have china at it’s core. even so, it’s easy to show the dfferences. that’s not true when you talk about canada, australia, and the us.
Slim wrote:
Sure you do, Slim, but you are just too PC to say it. Koreans wish for Ohno’s failure, so why can’t we wish for theirs? I want the Koreans to fail maily just to see the Korean media and the Ohno-haters to soil themselves.
Yuna wrote:
First, what the Korean media is writing about Ohno is not “sensationalism”; it is character assassination.
Second, I did not write “Korean atheletes are cheaters”; I wrote that Seong Si-baek grabbed Ohno’s knee and continued to hold on to it until Ohno knocked his arm away. That allowed Seong’s teammate, Lee Jeong-su, to get around on the outside. Did you watch the VIDEO, Yuna?
Third, what is bad about Ohno saying he was hoping for a disqualification? Is that unsportsmenlike or something? What were the Koreans hoping for? What was Lee Jeong-su hoping for when he raised his hands for the judges to see during the semi-finals?
At his press conference, Ohno said the following:
I think Ohno was being completely honest during the interview. If he, or even his teammate, had said they felt bad that the Koreans crashed, would you or any Koreans have believed him? Would Koreans had felt bad if Ohno had crashed?
By the same token you can say the Koreans were behaving in an honest way. It doesn’t put you above those you criticize. I honestly don’t know how I would have felt if Ono crashed, because before I saw the race myself, I had not formed any opinion on him (yeah even with all the korean hoopla, people make up their own minds from what they see)
If the main objective of the short track is to take out or using gestures to disqualify the others while not getting caught on camera when you do it, then yeah, he is a deserving champion. If not then I wouldn’t have felt proud had a Korean won due to Ono crashing, and that’s that.
I don’t want to see the video, Gerry, The race is over. There are enough youtube videos slandering top athletes based on national hate. I try not to click on them.
Ah Gerry, if that is what you need to chase the demons away at night time, then so be it.
All the best to you. As for me, I will keep serving my Korean overlords and tugging what remains of my forelock.
It’s hard to see differences in such cultures when one doesn’t leave the confines of the US borders.
Jeezus, how in the world did Shaun White *not* wipe out when he landed on the ground following that Mctwist manuever or whatever it’s called? What a FREAK!
Personally, I think snowboard halfpipe is one of the dumbest events of the Olympics. It’s just skateboarding, and it should exclusively belong in the X-Games. It’s a not-objective-made-up-and-judged garbage event. I also dislike figure skating because of its subjective judging, but it preceded even the first Winter Olympics, it was formerly a Summer Olympic event, and it is essentially the gymnastics equivalent.
I’m happy that the U.S. got a gold and bronze out of this event but come on. I felt like they were stolen.
I personally think they should take out snowboarding (keep freestyle skiing because it essentially replaced acroski) and put in speed skiing. That shit is intense as hell – current world record stands at 156 mph!
Here is an example of how the Korean media distorts the facts:
On February 16, SBS News reported the following:
Notice that SBS did not use any quotation marks in their report, but others reporting based on the SBS report did. For example, Newsway quoted Ohno as saying the following:
First, both news reports are misquoting Ohno. Ohno did not say he had never held another athlete. He said he had never been held by another athlete for so long. HERE is what Ohno said:
Notice how SBS distorted Ohno’s statements and all the hateful remarks that added in their commentary?
I do not know what Ohno meant by his hand gesture, but I know it to mean “stop,” as in “stop doing something.”
I do not know why Ohno’s Korean coach said what he did to the Korean media, but since the Korean coach did not make a similar declaration to the English media, I am suspicious. Ohno’s Korean coach seemed to be feeding Korea’s hatred for Ohno, not appeasing it. I wonder if Ohno even knows what his coach told the Korean media?
Watch the SBS VIDEO again and judge for yourselves who is telling the truth.
Q: How many media lies can gbevers endure before he finally kills himself?
A: Trick question. He’s already dead inside.
tinyflowers: that’s awfully cruel, and yet funny, because it smacks of truth.
Gerry, I saw the video, though perhaps not the one you are linking to, and it showed Ohno tugging on the arm of a Korean skater, who then gestured with his arms and his face as if to say “what’s this?”
The distortions that you quote above are more likely mistranslations. Broadcasters do not put a lot of stock in paying proper money to proper translators – that much should be obvious by now.
Never ascribe to malice what can be put down to sheer ignorance/stupidity.
Amongst other things. We don’t really know what he was thinking or trying to communicate.
I find it deliciously ironic that the Americans should have any Koreans coaching their short track team at all. No doubt they hired this fellow over the protests of Gerry Bevers. Gerry, if the Korean coach were so pro-Korea and anti-Ohno as you imply, wouldnt he have done a better job of ensuring Ohno didnt win?
For the record: I have very little interest in competitive sport/Olympics
Ohno is a great short track speed skater.
Predictable, Hamel, your choosing to comment on my translation of a video that you did not even bother to watch.
Tinyflowers,
I am not dead inside, but I am finally ready to leave Korea.
Last year, at the beginning of the semester, I think, a Political Science professor at my university stopped me in the hallway and told me that a member of the Northeast Asia History Foundation called him and asked if I was working at his school. The professor then asked me if it was true that I had written in support of Japan’s “Dokdo” claims on the Internet. I said I had.
I have worked at my school for three years, and at the start of last year, my department head was lavishing praise on teaching skills and made me the head foreign teacher at my school, a position that included a monthly stipend. However, in September of last year, I was told I would not be rehired for the 2010 school year. They would not give me a reason why they were not rehiring me, but simply pointed to a regulation saying they did not have to rehire me.
Anyway, I am finally leaving Korea, so happy new year to everyone.
As for Apolo Ohno, the Donga Ilbo is now trying to paint him as being emotionally disturbed. In a February 19 article entitled “Ohno’s Spiteful Actions, Result of Imaturity and Lack of Love?,” the newspaper quotes a Korean psychologist who suggests that Ohno’s “spiteful actions are the result of immature and excessive self-devotion and a lack of love.”
I do not have time to translate it today, but I will be translating it on my Korean Language Notes site, later. I do not want to bother the good people here at the Marmot’s Hole with anymore of my rantings.
By the way, if anyone is interested in reading what the Northeast Asia History Foundation had to say about me, you can go to this PDF FILE and read it on Page 60 of their Fall 2008 “Dokdo Research Journal.”
Gerry, are you asserting that the broadcasters and newspapers knew better, but still translated incorrectly?
To gbevers @ 164, who wrote:
“Last year, at the beginning of the semester, I think, a Political Science professor at my university stopped me in the hallway and told me that a member of the Northeast Asia History Foundation called him and asked if I was working at his school. The professor then asked me if it was true that I had written in support of Japan’s ‘Dokdo’ claims on the Internet. I said I had.
I dunno if that was the whole conversation (we’re going by your word), but it would be nice for us to have listen to every word of the conversation between you and the Political Science professor.
“I have worked at my school for three years, and at the start of last year, my department head was lavishing praise on teaching skills and made me the head foreign teacher at my school, a position that included a monthly stipend. However, in September of last year, I was told I would not be rehired for the 2010 school year. They would not give me a reason why they were not rehiring me, but simply pointed to a regulation saying they did not have to rehire me.”
Cheese and crackers!!!! (Lame I know, but I’m trying to keep from saying the Lord’s name in vain which I feel like doing now.) Gerry!!! WHY the hell did you do this to yourself….AGAIN?!?!?!?!?
I get no glee out of ANYONE (even an old online nemesis like who with whom I’ve butted heads with since 1999) losing his job. But after what happened to you in 2006, I would have thought you would have learned your lesson!
I feel for you, man….because I don’t want ANYONE to lose his job (here in the US, it’s a grim picture we are seeing more and more). But as someone once told me, a lot of the bad stuff in our lives IS self-induced. That surely is the case now.
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