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Open Thread #132
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{ 145 comments… read them below or add one }
First!
Oh, btw… I can’t believe someone actually acted this play out…
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2453730.ece/Script_by_high_school_shooter_Seung-Hui_performed
Damn! Second..
South Korea Confronts Open Secret of Abortion:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/world/asia/06korea.html?scp=1&sq=korea&st=cse
BBC has posted their yearly obligatory footage of Korean students at boot camp. Got it out of the way early this year:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8447227.stm
Anyone seen the footage of Michelle Wie running onto the green waving a big American flag after her recent win? I can’t decide which is worse: the despicable hypocrisy of the whoring of Wie and her pimp father or the gullibility of the American public for which this little charade was staged.
Oh, yeah, baby, I saw that and must have totally fallen for it, ’cause in my book waving the American flag is never, ever, uncool.
http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=1984
Or would you have preferred that she throw down her nation’s flag like that little short-track bitch Ahn Hyun-soo at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Torino. ‘Cause THAT was just sweeeeeet!
DLB
Look man, I’m sure Michelle Wie considers herself an American through and through. The people being played for suckers are the Koreans — and since they ask for it again and again, they deserve it.
Oh yes, and the other suckers are the ones lining the galleries or watching golf on television. Good grief. It’s boring enough to play golf; who the hell watches it?
Those $1,000 USD fees must make you downright nauseous…
No, I’m used to paying $1000 to be bored to tears. I went to graduate school, then law school, and now I have to attend lawyers’ seminars for Continuing Legal Education (CLE) credits.
Agreed; but what the hell do I know; I lift weights and watch people doing it, too.
Thanks for clearing up what fess Wk was talking about, Brendon. I thought maybe it was what Tiger was paying Wie’s dad.
Not sure why anyone would want to pay for grad school. I got paid to go, enough to buy a house at the same time.
Yeah, sorry. Forgot to add “green fees.”
Brendon,
I used to watch a ton. When you are working on your golf game, watching the pros is a never ending source of valuable education.
But , when the golf bug bites you, it’s not just about lessons. It’s just another sport you love… I could go on, but I think you know what I’d say. When you love it, you can’t get enough, watching or playing.
I admit, when I lived in Seoul, I sometimes watched golf to see big green expanses. I don’t need that anymore.
Sperwer,
I can’t speak for Michelle, but her father was once quoted in a news article I read. He stated that the ‘only thing that was American about his daughter was her passport.”
I’ve hated him ever since. To come and take advantage of all America offered, and then to display such contempt is… contemptuous.
“The Winter of Discontent: Pyongyang Attacks the Market” by Stephen Haggard and Marcus Noland
http://www.piie.com/publications/pb/pb10-01.pdf
Strong analysis, worth the read. Generally echoes what I’ve been saying. but these guys know way more than I do.
I was too impatient to wait for an open thread, but this is a re-post of a link in a previous post. Choi Jin Soo, the first native Korean NCAA Division I basketball player who played for Maryland, dropped out. An anonymous source said the language barrier was too significant both on the court and in the classroom.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/05/AR2010010503483.html
Pine Forest:
Exactly what I had in mind!
Sorry even to include my opinion at all, but there was a view here at ye Marm that the currency reform wouldn’t matter, or that the socialist system of production could replace what was lost. But the report makes it pretty clear than the private economy has become a large and sometimes the largest source of income and goods, and certainly the source of new growth. Gov’t rice would be great if the gov’t had any.
A typically bitter morsel of DRPK tragicomedy about that state system’s efficiencies: “The first battle of this year began on the 2nd of January. A decree was issued, stating that each adult resident has to provide 50 kilograms of fertilizer to surrounding farms.” … more about kids’ and seniors’ fertilizer duty, and then: “the temperature in Hyesan was -26C on the 2nd when workers … assembled… to transport the fertilizer by sled to … farms up to 16 kilometers away … numerous people suffered from frostbite during the transfer.” — http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=5861
This is the state system to replace the market?
CMM #12 wondered:
“Not sure why anyone would want to pay for grad school. I got paid to go, enough to buy a house at the same time.”
I can answer that one! Some students are naive enough to imagine that shelling out tens of thousands of dollars pusuing a doctoral degree in history is a rational investment. Such individuals are not entirely useless, of course, for they can always serve as the quintessential bad example.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Brendan Carr wrote – No, I’m used to paying $1000 to be bored to tears. I went to graduate school, then law school, and now I have to attend lawyers’ seminars for Continuing Legal Education (CLE) credits.
(Me) -
Yes, that is why I never became a Psychologist. I went to University and studies and paid 4-years of fees to get a Psychology degree, then when I graduated, they changed the law, so to work as a psychologist one must have a doctrine (PH.D).
I couldn’t be bothered to study an extra 6-years, nor afford the honors, then the major, then the doctorate degree, so I just became an “English teacher” in Korea.
After 10-years here, I have had enough, and in 1.5 years I am going back to my home-country to get a teachers certificate (one more year of uni) to become a High-school teacher in my home-country.
I need to, because I am getting OLD and here I have no medical insurance, no pension, no superannuation, NOTHING!
life is so tedious, just to survive!
.
Why are Korean drivers so impatient ? I’m watching traffic on the neighborhood street, and the street is fairly narrow, especially with the snow banks on the side of the road. There is a car coming down, and one going up. No one will give way. Another car comes along and joins the parade. Why wouldn’t he wait until the cars can mov? but it just keeps on coming and gets behind one car. Nobody can really move now! And then another car comes along, and we have 3 inline now. Are they really that unaware ? Is it so important that I get through, it does not matter about anyone else ?
^ That behavior has one guide only: sheer pragmatism.
For the Korean, whatever works is good. Unfortunately, that’s “works” in a narrow, myopic temporal sense.. — It’s why Koreans drive the way they do, why they bail out the chaebols that they do. And so on and so forth.
Re: #3
Heh heh… “guy nob”… heh heh.
Ahn? Torino? 2002?
Was that Torino, Utah of the United States of America in 2002? Or was it the 2006 Winter Olympic Games in Turin, Italy?
The taeguki tossed to the ice (a good a place for it as any, cuz that’s sacred ‘Mercan ice) was in 2002. By tosser Kim Dong-sung.
To re-assemble:
seems like an awful long time to come up with a doctrine.
Question for you all:
The last time I shopped the Yangjae Costco, I recall buying San Miguel beer, which I am sure I bought because it was the optimal choice.
How’s the (Korean) Costco beer selection these days? Can you get any craft beer there, like Sierra Nevada, Fat Tire, or something equivalent?
If any of you know, I’m wondering where I could direct a Korean friend (in Seoul) to score some American craft brews.
Thanks in advance, and sorry to post something so low-brow.
Why, how long did the Catholics take to come up with the immaculate conception?
I’m sure Michelle Wie considers herself an American through and through.
Jaemikyopos are Americans.
For the Korean, whatever works is good. Unfortunately, that’s “works” in a narrow, myopic temporal sense.. — It’s why Koreans drive the way they do, why they bail out the chaebols that they do. And so on and so forth.
This is where I believe the confusion starts. If one follows the various comments posted by the Kyopo commentators, one will see them go to great lengths to say how “impressed” they are with Korea’s/Korean achievements, and inform others about interesting facts regarding Korea or Korean culture, while at the same time coming down on anyone who dares to criticize the above, even if those criticism are valid.
Then out of the blue, the same Kyopos who were praising Korea will turn around and criticize Korea, stating that they are disappointed, don’t understand why Koreans are acting in such a way, and in the case of one certain Kyopo commentator, state that he/she looks forward to the day when Korea will “fall apart”.
Kind of makes one wonder whether to Kyopos, Korea is a less a land of their heritage and more of a drug which gives them highs when they hear news such as Korea’s recent winning of the UAE nuclear contract. Then, when they hear disappointing news, such as the street protests that followed the decision to open the local beef market to US beef, they get the lows, and thus lash out at Korea/Koreans for depriving them of that high.
A Korean company has won a contract to train the Qatari military in the fine art of riot control.
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/01/08/2010010801134.html
Considering that the Korean police has a lot of experience in riot control, the selection doesn’t come as a big surprise.
Just saw “500 Days of Summer”… it’s the real American remake of “My Sassy Girl… not this monstrosity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VmzIWgCtEI
i am so proud!
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/01/10/2010011000149.html?Dep0=chosunnews&Dep1=todaychosun&Dep2=head01
theotherkorean — Of course they are. That’s why any suggestion that Michelle Wie is somehow disingenuous waving Old Glory around is silly. It’s not Michelle who denigrated her American nationality to pander to Koreans’ pride — it was her dipshit father. Show me a teenager with a Korean parent who can control or moderate her parent’s craziness!
By the way, CNN Living Golf program just came on, and before I could leap to change the channel (golf news — egad!) there was a blurb about Michelle Wie commenting on her maturation as a player. She said, “I just want to show my fans, and my country, what I’m capable of.” That sounds pretty American to me.
On an only slightly related note, CNN International is promoting its brand with a song by Brandy Carlile named The Story. Its lyrics include the following hilarity:
How are those ratings again, CNN?
There’ve been a number of threads on here recently about Korean food breaking into the mainstream (here in the U.S., anyway) and something occurred to me yesterday.
Here in Manhattan, there are any number of “delis” that have hot and cold buffet tables, where food is sold by the pound, that are popular with office workers. Many of these places are owned by Koreans and the food they sell seems to be prepared offsite, as many of the dishes are exactly the same no matter which “deli” you go to.
The thing is, a lot of these dishes are either Korean (like japchae) or quasi-Korean. They’re pretty well done, and people eat them up without seeming to realize perhaps their origins. I’d noticed this for some time, but it was yesterday it hit me, when a place I went to stated that one of its dishes contained “Korean corn syrup”.
Anyway, I think that is one unexpected way that Korean food is being spread under the radar, and quite successfully, at least here in Manhattan.
@27: the beer situation in stateside Costcos is worsening, with Kirkland now having come out with their own brews that are replacing the Sam Adams seasonal cases.
‘Here in Manhattan, there are any number of “delis” that have hot and cold…..’
the nyt wrote about that sometime last year. you’re so lucky to be in nyc.
Re beer at Costco – I go to the Yangjae branch approximately every month. They still carry cases of San Miguel, but I have never seen any Fat Tire. They also have a grab-bag 12-pack of bottles, where you get a mix of Red Dog, Pilsner Urquell, Miller Lite, MGD, and maybe some other shite. Probably some Asahi around too, but all in all not a superb selection. I recall finding a much better spread at Home Plus when I used to live near.
Have some complaints of late though. For some reason, they’ve been out of the Kirkland’s vodka for months, which is sad (for me at least) since it’s the only decent vodka I’ve ever been able to buy in Korea outside of the Duty Free. Does anyone know if they still carry the Kirkland’s vodka in the other branches around Seoul? Also, for sentimental purposes, I have picked up a 12-pack of Miller Lite a few times, and the stuff was completely skunked, making me yearn for Cass instead, which is disgusting.
dogbert: I appreciate the response. Here in SoCal I found Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale at Costco for $23, plus CRV… not bad. I got Sam Adams Octoberfest a couple of months back for about the same.
These days I buy wine and beer at Costco, mainly… the choices are limited, but that works for me, as it helps me not to overspend.
I’m hoping some of the readers who drink beer and shop Costco Korea might be able to recollect what they’ve seen/bought in terms of beer lately.
Again, thanks in advance…
In LA Korean food really is mainstream now. So is pho, mainly because of Koreans. Not in the San Francisco Bay however, where it’s still Thai, Chinese and Indian, Japanese.
I took a Jewish/Persian/German girl (a.k.a. a mainstream American) to a pojangmacha in LA (Dansongsa) and she couldn’t keep off the maccoli.
It is interesting reading about the article about South Korea’s abortion in the New York Times. It is also known that South Korea has one of the world’s lowest birth rate. The President of South Korea would like the birth rate of the country to go up. This sound weird because why should Korea’s population have to go up or stay steady if millions of South Koreans want to emigrate to other countries? Also, the population of South Korea is 48,000,000. This is overpopulated for a country that is the size of South Korea. There are states in the U.S.A. that are larger then South Korea and only have a population of 2 million. Canada only has a population of 33 million or so and look how large the land is. The population of South Korea is too much for the land the country has. Korea also has a terrible image of being the land of throwing away babies. This has to change. South Korea needs to have more sex education, family planning, have easy access to birth control contraceptives such as condoms, Plan B (Emergency pill), birth control pills, and other forms of contraceptives. If South Korea wants to be considered a developed country, they need to have proper health care for women and birth control programs available to the ENTIRE public. Anyways, overpopulated countries = 3rd world or developing countries. Too many people also equal more pollution.
@29,
how about… you’re oversimplifying? and caricaturizing?
i’m my own person, with my own convoluted and complex relations to korea, korean issues, korean-american issues, cultural and political issues generally. certain things get me going, while other things don’t. my responses, if anything, are honest.
although, i have to question my own soul. why am i interested in korean issues anyway? why do i post here? why do i care about korea at all? why do other kyopos here post and browse here?
oh, yeah… it occurs to me…. it’s partly sexual, yes, sexual, but in a profound way. cool stuff that people do seem cooler and more interesting, more attractive to me, richer, when koreans are doing it. so i like being surrounded by that. perhaps it’s a genetics sort of thing.
also, as i am korean, i’d like to see the path of my own sucess paved and not obstructed by the mere fact that i’m korean. on the one heand, you get a whole bunch of racist nimrods who have an agenda to paint the worst picture of koreans; they are working around the clock to make sure that that picture sticks. that’s not the sort of garbage i’d like to see in the world because i don’t want to be judged by garbage. that’s a social capital and wanting to be my own individual sort of thing.
~ all this doesn’t mean that i can’t be objective about my responses to issues relating to koreans. there is no either/or, no confusion. i’m on my own team.
korea is the place i’m from. where my parents are from. where many of my relatives live. it’s the place that continues to define me, some of which ways i don’t intend, don’t want, don’t care for, don’t love. it’s part of me and so it’s a part of my concerns. my reactions will be what they will be.
you?
‘So is pho, mainly because of Koreans.’ robin
what? koreans? i don’t get it.
Most of the pho joints in LA are Korean owned, and many attract a large Korean clientele. Many Japanese places in LA are also run by Koreans, especially Korean sushi joints known for their spiciness.
Seoul just made it to #3 of 31 “destinations for 2010″ in the NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/travel/10places.html?pagewanted=1&em
I think it’s just as weird to insist Michelle is American as it is to insist she’s Korean.
After all it’s the Americans themselves like to categorize people using double barrel labels.
Americans themselves who like to
judge judy wrote -
(Me – I went to University and studies and paid 4-years of fees to get a Psychology degree, then when I graduated, they changed the law, so to work as a psychologist one must have a doctrine (PH.D).
I couldn’t be bothered to study an extra 6-years…)
seems like an awful long time to come up with a doctrine.
Me – (I don’t know how to quote on here and I don’t know how to add an avatar)
I would have to do an honors degree (2 years) then a Masters degree (2 years) then a doctrine degree (2 years)…
some people do them in 1 year + 1 year + 1 year – but I always take twice as long. still its a waste of money.
In the days leading up to an interview with ABC News’ Charlie Gibson, aides were worried with Ms. Palin’s grasp of facts. She couldn’t explain why North and South Korea were separate nations and she did not know what the Federal Reserve did. She also said she believed Saddam Hussein attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/09/2008-campaign-all-over-again-in-new-book/?hp
There’s really nothing that could leak from those who had the unfortunate job of trying to polish that turd that would surprise me anymore. If some McCain staffers came out with claims that Palin was constantly asking them where the sun went during the night, you’d have no reason to doubt them.
looks like youtube’s maangchi is getting a little fame.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/food-and-wine/you-tube-turns-amateur-chefs-into-food-celebs/article1420450/
Nope, it’s ethnics who fail to assimilate successfully or don’t succeed to the extent they imagined.
1. Sperwer, could I ask how assimilated you are in Korea by your own standard?
2. Just curious, from what sort of entitlement does this “they take all US has to offer but are still ungrateful” kind of judgment spring from? Is that what Star Spangled Banner is about? Someone educate me (it doesn’t matter if it comes from one of the Korean-Americans or the Italian-Americans or the Irish-Americans or whatever you call yourselves) because I’m just fascinated by it..
Anyway, here’s more of them *kyopos* coming back. It’s a paltry number but it is expected to increase because it’s probably better to be somewhere where no one expects gratefulness from you for your nationality.
Yuna: I’m not; but I never had, do not now have and don’t have any intention to ever assimilate in Korea; it’s not a society with which I want to have any relationship except as an outsider and to the limited and indirect extent of a few personal relationships any my scholarly interests.
So then why are you so critical of those who don’t or fail to (assimilate) who happen to live in “your country” ?
Interesting phrasing of this question. One might more appropriately ask from what sense of entitlement does the attitude of treating the US as a rice bowl from which one can take without putting anything back come from?
Anyway, the “entitlement” about which you’re asking is called citizenship. And it has obligations as well as rights and privileges. Kennedy summed it up very well when he said “ask not what your country can dor for you, but what you can do for your country.”
I sure do like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, but it gives me some wicked wicked farts. Probably best for everyone the neither it nor Taco Bell are readily available here in SK.
why do bother so much with that guy, yuna? his kind become less relevant every day that passes. who cares what he thinks? there’s just no room for his type in the new america. let him wallow.
In which country do universities award doctrine degrees?
I sometimes wonder if even Bush himself believed the misinformation campaign carried out by his aides to sell Americans a war we didn’t need.
Thanks. I’ll have to look that up.
I’d rather be in California. Do you know something I don’t?
kirkland beer is good-and it’s only $.74 per bottle.
Damn you, judge judy, and your evil ways! I’ve no doubt that Costco’s Kirkland-brand beer is high quality for the price – but they don’t bring it in for sale here!
see my comment at #28 which follows from #26.
sperwer,
So living in a country (or possessing residency) and not giving a ff about assimilating and being proud is OK but acquiring a citizenship suddenly requires a 180 degrees turn. It’s amazing to find believers of such doctorates, oops, doctrines outside religion. Are you not just like the old korean ajossis who live abroad, with your made-up fantasy notion of the motherland, proud of their non-assimilation? Michelle Wie’s father probably went there for his personal ties and scholarly interests too in the beginning too! I’m sure there are some who shake their sticks, after being there 20 years – “At least I’m only a permanent resident. I’m not a citizen” like it matters (jack shit). I don’t think you have much ground to criticize them overall.
I don’t know. I think you should ask the bowl.
Actually, in the US anyway, I feel that illegal immigrants and permanent residents have some significant ground from which to demand rights and privileges akin to those given specifically to citizens, *without* having to outwardly pledge their allegiance. It clearly says in the Selective Service website that illegals and permanent residents are liable for any future military draft, should the US govt ever feel the need to put them in service! Just like the citizens! In other words, residence for foreigners in America just means that you have less rights but pretty much the *same* obligations as the citizen. In other words, Sperwer has even less ground to criticize gyopos when compared to his own situation of living off the benefits that korea provides while not having to live with any risk of military service. In other words, Sperwer is a 빵꾸똥꾸 asshole extraordinaire!
I think Sperwer would be more than glad to move away and take a long, long shower — if his wife weren’t so successful in business here.
I’ve known the guy for 12 years and can tell you it’s a real stretch, though, to claim that this man has enjoyed many “benefits” from his experiences in Korea.
As for military service, I’d have to guess our hot-blooded young friends are unaware that until very, very recently Korea has had a racial exclusion policy for its military draft. Anyone of mixed blood or non-Korean ancestry was excluded from eligibility for military service, due to the combustible combination of beastly Korean barracks treatment and the generalized racial-supremacist attitudes of the Korean populace.
Back to Cosco and food…..does anyone know of any Cosco in Seoul that sells chili in the cans? I remember they did about a year or two ago near my location (near Dangsan). I need/crave/ lust – yes, I said lust, chili dogs…..hence the ever expanding tire……
And he even has a wife who benefits mightily from korea without serving in the military! From whom he directly benefits from! And will their kids stay in the country to help with the korea? Who knows! This guy has some serious nerves criticizing immigrants in the US. Just amazing.
It’s safer to say Korea benefits mightily from Sperwer’s wife. She saved a substantial company that the usual Korean ajosshi incompetence and thievery nearly destroyed. Not that this should mean anything to you — I get the strong impression you don’t work.
‘I think Sperwer would be more than glad to move away and take a long, long shower — if his wife weren’t so successful in business here. ‘
so he’s a man who’s supported by a woman? no wonder he’s always telling us what a man he is.
how bout some more pictures?
Bullshit Brendon Carr. You can tell Sperwer’s wife that she’s lucky she wasn’t born in the other side of the DMZ.
One could not imagine a more purely “traditional Korean” society than that one, so yes, she’s lucky. As were you.
Every time I’ve visited North Korea (and China, and Russia) I’ve thanked my lucky stars for the accidents of history which make me an American.
‘usual Korean ajosshi incompetence and thievery nearly destroyed. ‘
korean ajoshi one of the most accomplished group of men of our times, lawyer.
@Robert Neff:
Why don’t you make your own chili? Ground meat + beans + tomato sauce + spices. Canned chili usually contains meat extenders like soy protein and flavorings like autolyzed yeast. Yuck.
Can’t argue with what’s been accomplished by South Korea and South Koreans since they moved away from their traditional stifling social controls and strangulation of commerce and all other human achievement. But only an idiot would argue that Chosun society, with its average life expectancy of 26, was some kind of paradise for anyone other than the very thin layer of Chosun’s vampiric ruling class.
And only someone with no business experience here could pretend that America and Korea don’t have different prevalences of incompetence and thievery.
Yuna,
you can’t compare a guy like Sperwer who has/does temporarily live in Korea to a family like the Wies who fully emigrated and are American citizens.
They swore an oath of allegiance when they did so..an oath of allegiance to the country that accepted them and which has done a great deal to bring them huge success. BJ Wie’s statement that the only thing about his daughter American is her passport proves that ,when he took that oath, he was a lying, opportunistic weasel who had no intention of honoring his new nation’s creed. He obviously emigrated with the intention of taking everything he could and giving nothing; he obviously saw and see the US as a place to cynically manipulate toward the fulfillment of his narrow ambitions.
Now, what does that say about his character, and what example does it hold up for Americans when it comes to Korean immigrants?
How I wish his citizenship could be revoked. It is a sad statement on contemporary American society that this guy can go public about his perjury and face no consequences.
When Sperwer takes an oath of citizenship in Korea, you can track his behaviour and then gripe if he isn’t measuring up. But don’t hold your breath. He resided/resides in Korea legally and with the full blessing of the Korean gov’t.
Where did you go to school? If you’re over 20 I’m amazed that I have to explain this.
IT Supahpowah kicking ass and takin’ names at CES.
… and discussion started because Michelle Wie, a fully grown adult woman, was waving the American flag after her victory. She apparently chose her identity on her own volition. Who gives a shit about what her father says?
Oh I know. Let’s keep talking about her father because it’s convenient. Who cares about staying on topic when we can shit all over something we hate?
Time to take another break I guess. This board just made me sick.
Pine Forest,
Oath of allegiance is little more than a formality as far as I’m concerned. If it were so important, and if the standards that you use to judge the worthiness of naturalized citizens were so important, you’re going to have to revoke citizenship from lots and lots of people in america, natural born citizens included. Furtherfore, because I cannot see how non citizens and citizens are practically different in terms of obligations , it’s plausible to argue that immigrants are simply gaining rights and privileges that they deserved from the get go, by going through the oath formalities.
Brendon Carr,
Military exclusionist policy means very little and you know damn well the reason why. How many foreigners in korea would willingly serve if they had the choice? Besides, service related policies in both korea and america are mandates, and therefore certain rights and privileges — or lack thereof, within reason — should follow as a result of being subject to those mandates, which is what I’m saying.
TK, whether you like it or not, Papa Wie’s views of his daughter’s identity, and his use of that view in manipulating the Korean media/public for profit, is a legitimate issue.
He was (and still may be) in complete control of her professional life, and he was directly responsible for managing/negotiating her endorsements. His strategy of denigrating her American identity when in Korea to suck up to the locals and their endorsement dollars reflected poorly on both of them, and that’s part of the price she pays for giving control of her career to her dipshit of a father.
Again, Michelle Wie just turned 19. If you’ve got any examples of how a 14 or 15 year-old Korean can moderate the insanity of her parent, please let me know. It will reduce a lot of conflict around my house.
nothing you wrote had anything to do with what i wrote or what you wrote. fact is, korean ajoshis are one of the most successful group of men in the 20th and 21st centuries. i know that doesn’t sit well with your image of being a savior but that’s just the way it is. live in the present and plan for the future. if you want to wallow in the past, i won’t be playing.
****
some people have questioned whether i’m the real pawi because i seem milder. during the year i was away, i simply read these boards without comment. gave me time to see that most expats were simply miserable people BEFORE they got to korea. once i understood that context, it became easier to stomach the constant whine of our woul-be heroes.
****
wie’s father? made his daughter rich, didn’t he? way to go, ajoshi!
Michelle Wie waving the American flag after a win? She knows which side her bread is buttered. It’s not about being American or Korean. It’s about the Dollar Bill, yo.
A true patriot is one who carries the flag in the face of death.
pineforest, what is temporary? how long has sperwer been here?
in any case america allows dual citizenships, aye?
so if someone has a dual citizenship does that mean they have to divide their loyalty by half each? what about triple citizenships ? 1/3? do you harbor some sort of naive notion that everyone has to swear allegiance to the flag from the heart? or to the queen?
A pushy parent of a young talent is one thing.
Bitching and moaning about a place that they live in, (maybe it’s more to do with the iphone, nothing to do with the army) is one thing but to criticize the others?
maybe mr.wie meant that his daughter likes korean stars, she watches korean soaps and listens to korean music and likes korean food – is that so bad?
anyway michelle wie is not getting much endorsement in korea is she?
han yeseul who was born and raised in the US. she is a korean citizen now because she revoked it. shame on her! betraying the land that provided her belly with free-flowing milk and honey! christ!
sperwer and pineforest should raise the issues with the rice bowl i.e. their mothership. not with the successful korean-americans that i see on this blog who have varying degrees of connection to korea.
As I said, it’s a sad statement on US policy and modern US society that a man like Wie can have the audacity to make a statement like that, and face no consequences. I totally agree with your point, Yuna, that America needs to clean its own house in this regard.
I can’t speak on dual citizenship, because I don’t know of any examples beyond Ireland and Israel. Does a Korean over the age of 18 have the ability to retain dual citizenship?
As for TK’s statement that we’d have to take citizenship away from natural born citizens if we’re going to be strict, sure, there are assholes in every country. But , like it or not, Wie is a public figure, and public figures get harassed when they reveal unpleasant facts about themselves through their statements.
I have *no* gripe about Michelle Wie, and I have no confidence that she is the unhappy, trained robot that she is made out to be. For the record, IMHO a lot of Americans who criticize Koreans who are coached by their parents, or raised under a strict regimen in order to produce high performance, are just plain jealous of them.
But her Dad is a tool.
Pawi,
Amen. Ajoshis are indeed among the most successful groups of the late 20th centuries. Nothing wrong with a little hard work and discipline. And a lot of soju. Ok, there’s something wrong with a lot of soju. ;p
#57: Sonagi–I plan to go to the University of Fredonia to get a degree in the Monroe Doctrine, with a minor in the Doctrine of Unintended Consequences.
#65: Robert–I would go to the Chili King in the ‘won up the street from Bless U and OK Kitchen for a good chili fix.
-5? must have hit a nerve with the brothers. more proof this blog is populated by expats.
as for wie, she’s more korean than american. what will happen to me now? can an american like me say something like that w/o some loyalty test?
is this what you want for your future, korea?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/world/europe/11italy.html?hp
I hear in his latest interview with the Chosun Ilbo, BJ Wie has revised his quote about his daughter. It now reads: “The only things American about Michelle are her large ass and the fact that she likes to bang basketball players.”
He went on to say that “The only things Korean about her are her propensity to cheat and flag-wave.”
“is this what you want for your future, korea? ”
What? Penniless immigrants from backward, repressive countries flooding the ports of entry? Isn’t that how you got to America? Your double standards never fail to amaze.
#65: Robert–I would go to the Chili King in the ‘won up the street from Bless U and OK Kitchen for a good chili fix.
- And I would hesistate to call that stinking, roach-infested goat-track a street.
“Who cares about staying on topic when we can shit all over something we hate?”
-Isn’t that what you goofs do every time Canada comes up in a topic? Call it “America’s attic” and make jokes about smoking pot?
All the links to the original MH chosun post on this was broken. Yonhap news is the source of this – 뼛속까지 한국인 statement “korean to the bone” liking korean food, korean celebs and korean music. Also cheering for the Korean side during the WBC. It doesn’t say anything about her dad. It says the interview was with her.
Maybe she feels American as an apple pie (or Hawaiian punch) when she competes as a American team captain against the Europeans, and Korean when she fancies 송승헌. I see no conflict in this, like you guys or some Koreans who speculate on what would happen if the match is against Korea? I mean I have better things to speculate on..Like what would I do when I win that lottery..
I have no problem with poly-loyal or aloyal to nations – I don’t actually think Michelle Wie is pretending that she feels Korean.
When I got precipitation around my eyeballs watching Yuna Kim’s tears, it was because I was imagining the sort of dedication that the individual must have gone through. Less to do with the 애국가 or the 태극기.
yeah, Pawi, that is a bit of a double standard.
That is also the difference between Mr Mao and me who keeps silent about the other double standard.
“A true patriot is one who carries the flag in the face of death. |
-What a simplistic, hackneyed, almost fascistic statement.
What other double standard, Yuna?
The original MH post on this is here, which has the original quotation from her father, although the Chosun Ilbo article it was sourced from appears to have a broken link.
Yuna:
I’m not, except for those, like Wie’s ajosshi aboji, obtain citizenship and then derogate it so egregiously. The others I feel sorry for, but take some comfort in knowing that they, like Gooseboy, will fall to Darwin’s scythe before their pathetic efforts to balkanize the US succeeds.
Yuna:
In a word, “yes”.
Of course, it’s also a kind of sliding scale. Only living in a country or possessing residency doesn’t warrant a fuck all attitude, as you and so many Koreans seems to suppose (which may be understandable given the fact that very few Koreans had any real standing as stakeholders in their own society until very, very recently). It also entails various rights and privileges and corresponding duties and obligations. [And i discharge mine - you're welcome.] But citizenship demands more.
Really? What benefits are those? I (considering the foreigner premium for most things here, more than) pay my way. I even double-pay for the single most important thing a country is supposed to provide – defense – since my respective Korean and US tax payments both include significant allocations for Korea’s national defense. As far as military service is concerned, 4 members of my family spent an aggregate of 9 years in front-line combat here between 1950-53, which I daresay is more of a contribution than even most of the families of the ethnic chauvinists on this board, let alone the wankers themselves, have made, and if Korea wanted my service it would get it (provided I didn’t have to swear allegiance or otherwise compromise my US citizenship, in which case I would happily leave if that were the trade-off).
Hey, aren’t you describing yourself here? :
I just couldn’t reconcile the fact that it was coming from you – that was my original problem. Or any others who seem to only express derision for everything about the country that they have made a home in, or lived in , or were working in. Precisely because I agree with you that it’s a scale, I just cannot believe you are on 0, and proud of it, and you expect 100.
Anyway, regarding Mr.Wie, most parents of wunderkids in arts/sports are to various extents, pimps. They do it for love. Though I don’t agree with it, often it’s a price to pay when the product is a gift to mankind. Poor kids. Michelle doesn’t look too unhappy overall. Park Seri on the other hand….
I have no objection to someone’s renouncing their citizenship – although I am admittedly perplexed why someone would give up US for Korean citizenship (even if I “understand” why). I think you are projecting a typical Korean attitude here – the one embodied in the recent law that purports to restrict Korean men from renouncing their Korean citizenship if they haven’t fulfilled their military service obligation.
Maybe with Gillian’s family members the aggregate years could go up to 20…
She always brings up the topic of American amnesia of sending one man per generation to war…
At least now I know where your sense of entitlement comes from and it doesn’t have any place in my book.
Again. isn’t that you? I am confused now. You think it’s low of Mr.Wie to serve both golden cows. The Koreans think it’s low of people like Mr.Wie to serve both golden cows (as shown in 재범, 유승준 and countless others incidents) That’s why Han Yeseul (probably) renounced her US citizenship, and also to make it easier to work/live here.
Yours and the Korean attitude concur.
Mine diverges.
I assure you yuna, Sperwer isn’t going to care too much about your book.
Yuna, not that I want to distract you from your noble cause of telling Sperwer your mind, but I’m curious. Why have you shown animosity and/or cattiness to nearly every other female who posts here?
Eh? Sperwer’s a female? I’m shocked!
Next time that he and I meet for drinks and conversation, I’ll have to act with more chivalry. No more coarse language. No more arm wrestling (don’t wanna lose to no woman). No more drinking under the table.
And I hereby apologize, Sperwer, for my previously uncouth behavior and promise to be more couth in the future . . .
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Hey Marmoteers–you saw that Lonely Planet poll slagging on Seoul as one of the world’s most hated places…well, the NYT lists it as one of the “31 Place to Go in 2010″:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/travel/10places.html?hpw
Yes, it’s the city we love to hate and hate to love…. Now I’ll let you get back to your bickering
Sperwer is OK.
cmm, are you trying to tell me something i.e. you’re a woman? or that Sperwer is?
The answer is because I am a CAMWHORE.
No, not quite.
wrt that symbols person I was genuinely curious about what she was trying to say, and later about why she would have an unflattering photo of herself (sort of as a joke, to see how she would react to informal jokes) but I think she just got the wrong end of the stick. it seems I hit a raw nerve as she seemed to be sensitive about her appearance. or maybe it was lost in translation.
wrt Sonagi, I don’t think I am because she knows her stuff and I genuinely think she was interested in the culture and it’s Korea’s loss for not retaining someone like her as a teacher.
Gillian annoys me just like Sperwer does only when she starts going on about how grateful the Koreans should be (it’s nothing to do with her sex) which is I think most of the time, as she only seems to comment to remind us how many male relatives fought for Korea and that all the American troops should pull out of this ungrateful place.
Any others I missed? Aliceinwonderland I found generally wonderful.
@Yuna:
Did you even read the original quote by Pappy Wie? Telling a Korean audience that the only thing American about his US-born and raised daughter was her passport wasn’t serving two masters. It was telling the first master that he served the second in name only. Naturally, when faithful servants of the second got wind of this, they weren’t pleased.
And thank you for the compliment.
I think Daddy Wie’s pandering remarks were insulting to Koreans, too.
Correct, because I don’t think it entitles me to anything, except having a nice hot cup of STFU served to the likes of JW and Gooseboy
Yuna:
No; what part of my saying I have no objection to someone’s renouncing their citizenship didn’t you understand?
I have no expectation that Korea or Koreans be grateful. I just don’t accept their acting like unprincipled louts, and acting like the US (or anyone else for that matter, owes them anything (despite their collective outsized sense of ethnic entitlement) either.
when?
Find me a original in Korean quote. I cannot imagine what “The only thing American about her..” bit would be in Korean.
Anyway, in the link I found and linked to, it’s Michelle who said 뼛속까지 한국인 – she feels Korean to her bone, under the heading 미국여권을 가진 한국인 – “A Korean with an American Passport” – although the heading does not quote any source, I read a completely different nuance, especially backed by all the things that Michelle Wie said herself.
Anyway, I don’t feel strongly about this one way or another. They shouldn’t have to defend themselves so much to accusation of “Are you not American?” coming from the Koreans in the first place.. Who Cares? She is Korean-American.
The reason I insist on it in Korean is because I remember vaguely the case of that Korean VC of Dartmouth College – another lost in translation – about “You cannot choose who your parents are” tongue-in-cheek statement.
Yuna:
If you can’t tell the difference between what I wrote and a “fuck it” attitude, I’m not sure what I can say. I don’t care for “Korean values” – at least not for the way in which they are manifested in a systemic way, i.e., I think the society as such leaves more than a lot to be desired (without judging individuals by the same yardstick unless and until they show their own stripes) – and thus I have no interest in becoming Koreanized, let alone Korean (even supposing that were possible – which it isn’t), especially considering my comparative judgment of the virtues of my own country (its faults notwithstanding). Nevertheless, I obey local law (mostly – god help you if you get in my face
), pay my taxes, have friendships with individual Koreans whom I respect and appreciate, enjoy some individual aspects of Korean culture, help the old, blind and infirm across the street and work in a local soup kitchen on holidays. Besides, Korea doesn’t need me for a fluffer; it’s got the likes of Ajossi (“I’m So Proud” – [LOL]) Pawi – although it’s curious how the failure of Korea to garner unalloyed outside validation drives his sort apoplectic; sounds more like ungrounded and insecure vanity to me).
Why? Do you doubt the veracity of the claim that he made the remark? Or do you think that he must have been interviewed in Korean and, whatever he actually said, that the newspaper’s English-language translation would have been different?
If you believe the former, then you should know that many persons, myself included, read that article when it was first published. Or, if the latter, perhaps one ought to ask why, then, Wie’s father never bothered asking for a retraction.
i can’t speak for yuna, but many expats just make shit up. provide korean quote or stfu.
btw, the korean in america only owes two things to the us: taxes and obedience to the law. that’s it. that’s from a veteran of the iraq war.
how many of you have defended america? i’ll bet very few.
#116
how many of you have defended america? i’ll bet very few.
You’d be very surprised. I know quite a few on this blog alone.
I’m not American, man.
Taxes and obedience to the US.
Slavish devotion to mythical notions of racial superiority to Korea.
Those are some heavy obligations. What do you do for fun? Cut yourself with broken glass?
IHBB,
I never said it was an illegitimate issue. I said it was out of topic from the proffered image of Michelle Wie waving the American flag.
First of all, Wie herself made her stance on this issue crystal clear in one of the most famous articles discussing her: “I’m proud to be Asian-American,” she says. “I’m proud that I’m fully Korean, and that I’m fully American. I want to represent hope, the belief that it can happen. I made my goals very high, and it’s going to be very hard for me. But I enjoy it.” ESPN Next article
So this Michelle Wie identity thing is a non-issue. She waved the American flag because she believes, as a fully grown adult female, she is fully American. What her father said when she was a minor is irrelevant to that image. And that fact that someone thinks Wie’s father’s remarks to be the first worthy thing to share upon seeing Wie’s celebration of victory indicates a lot about his state of mind. And I find that state of mind disgusting. Capice?
MrMao, cry me a river. Many on this blog spend their entire time denigrating Korea. I made a couple of Canada jokes, none of which was made or taken seriously.
TK,
Didn’t you get the memo? It’s absolutely okay to make unsubstantiated derogatory and denigrating comments about Korea and Koreans in the blogsphere…
Fellas,
I just don’t know why Wie’s flag waving at the Solheim Cup is all that big of an issue. Seriously, Mr. Wie made that comment when Michelle was a minor so why should she be accountable for what her idiot dad said?
She played an instrumental part in helping Team USA beat Team Europe in the Solheim Cup. Isn’t that a decent contribution to America and her “Americaness” all in itself? How many of us non-Veterans (who never recieved hazard pay) have even done that much?
So, for Ms. Wie to be a “full” American, what does she need to do? Does she need to charge a German bunker on Omaha Beach in order to earn her “American” stripes or what? Would that be good enough for some of ya?
Might as well be a good time to bring Kim Ha-jin (a.k.a. Anthony Kim) into the discussion. He helped the U.S. win the Ryder Cup after a three time drought. Although he waved an American flag after that tournament (with his dad beside him), perhaps he’s a bit more American than Ms. Wie because he doesn’t have as idiot a father, is a little more gangsta, hasn’t professed a love for Korean dramas and bangs and lives with a white gal.
Dogbert @ # 34,
This is true. In some cases, Korean food is so hidden and “mainstreamed,” per se, that some (to not be named) commenters openly want to play with matches right next to those establishments!
In a sense, this is how Korean food worked its way into the regular diets of many Russians. Koryo Saram, missing the tastes of their homeland, had to take Russian ingredients and Koreanize it. This contributed to the rise of the Korean food kiosks, where Korean banchan is disguised (and refered to) as “salad kiosks.”
http://books.google.com/books?id=j7MTx_zcIR0C&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=koryo+saram+salad&source=bl&ots=jLtmh8IjiQ&sig=XFwQv3NntXFqga7BSvfSNqfNgHQ&hl=en&ei=125LS4mYEInQM6S-4JAJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=koryo%20saram%20salad&f=false
You go to any Russian deli in the U.S. and you are likely to see something called “Korean Carrot Salad.”
http://russiansalad.blogspot.com/2008/10/korean-carrot-salad.html
#120 AAK,
I took them seriously, then I looked up the quote and found that Canada is actually America’s hat.
Let’s call a spade a spade – AAK does, and the rest of you who don’t would do well to follow his example.
I have uncovered further evidence that golf and flag waving is a sinister plot by kyopos around the world to look more INSERT COUNTRY HERE.
http://www.timezoneoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/danny-lee.jpg
http://www.scottishgolfview.com/uploaded_images/DANNYLEENZTROPHY08-788293.jpg
Can you believe the audacity of Danny Lee to pull kiwi heart strings like that?!?!?
Jeffery –
Re Sperwer’s gender – Though his pictures stop just above where his junk should be, not revealing conclusive proof of his manhood, I never believed nor was implying Sperwer was female. Continue with your swearing, wrastling, drinking under the table, and other manly drunken hijinks, confident that there is nothing more than meets the eye.
Re my comment about people paying for grad school – don’t read too much into that comment… it was more of a subtle boast of my great fortune to have unintentionally chosen a field of study where grad school is free and comes with a relatively fat stipend. For those not so lucky, I can certainly respect and understand paying to further one’s noble quest for knowledge (like in your cautionary tale example, history majors), or one’s upfront investment for a larger paycheck later in life (many other degrees). Or both. Also, I recall that grad school provided many more opportunities for swearing, wrastling, drinking under the table, and other manly drunken hijinks that my friends from undergrad who didn’t study further, too busy working 8-6 for their corporate owners, no longer had the chance to do. Perhaps THEY are the true suckers.
Pawi –
You are a veteran of the Iraq War? I’m assuming you mean the first one (early 90′s), since I believe that you mentioned last week or so that you are in your early fifties. That would have put you in your early to mid 30′s if my assumptions and math is correct (my math is always correct). Safe to say then that you were a career military man? Have a nice day.
you’re half correct, sir. there are ways to be associated with military service w/o it being your primary occupation. i almost never bring up my service to my nation because i think it’s rather cheap to do so but i just have to laugh when people start questioning my loyalty to the country in which i was born and raised. america is part of the fabric of my very being.
have a good day, cmm.
Hey Hey. Please. Don’t provoke him into going further southwards. My eyes are still recovering from another recent incident.
another recent incident? oh that… the mizar5/mizarv debacle.
meh, you wanted to see it and you know it yuna… the links were surrounded with disclaimers betraying exactly what content awaited, and you obviously clicked right in.
The mind was prepared, the eyes, no. Sometimes no disclaimer prepares you for the impact of visual images.
AAK, get the matches ready!
THIS is what happens when a Korean immigrant buys a hamburger joint in Chicago…. they add (something that looks like) “bibimbap” to the menu…
http://www.avclub.com/chicago/articles/that-weird-lunch-place-by-the-office-hamburger-kin,36441/
Oh helllllll no. Just as soon as I come up with an alibi and confirm that those folks have a good fire insurance…
John Yoo VS Jon Stewart. In case you missed it.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
I’m really digging his gangsta pose in this faculty profile.
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-programs/faculty/facultyProfile.php?facID=235
I say it was a totally intentional pushing of photo posing boundaries given the extraordinary circumstances.
here’s a video gift for yuna-sshi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkSTLZHkS44
Here is an interesting article: Link
In a word, arrogance.
wow, minus 5 for an innocent video from ‘misuda’? that show drives male expats nuts, doesn’t it? lol.
The infamous wheelchair molester finally lost his job.
Way to go Caleefornia.
Pawi, don’t worry about the ratings, I always give you a bump up.
But also please stop stereotyping male expats. If you insist on stereotyping, focus on English teachers or lawyers. There’s plenty of each around here, and I will find it less personally offensive
Meanwhile, what’s become of your blogging efforts? I tried to leave a comment yesterday, but couldn’t comment thru the proxy servers that I accessed your page with.
i have been at a lost on how to phrase things because there are people whose sensibilities i don’t want to offend. i understand that there are quite a few expats who are good people and don’t spend all their time going on about korea. i’ll try to do better, cmm.
as for my board, i realized it would be a lot of work to maintain so i decided to let it go for now though i’m thinking i might just use it to post my ‘political/artistic’ posters. besides, i didn’ think anybody was visiting.
btw, can i ask you if you watched that clip i posted with backward english? if you did, what did you think? yeah, i know; i’m wacky.
for those who might be interested, please visit my blog to see a five minute clip of the Korean show ‘high kick’ where all the people speak korean backwards. funny!
Pawi, after several years on the internet, and a few those spent blogging, I’ve developed a thick skin, so I tend not to get offended.
IHBB put it well once: “It’s easy not to feel insulted. Just don’t feel insulted. See how easy it is?”
I’m ‘quoting’ from memory, so IHBB can feel free to correct me (and I won’t feel insulted).
At any rate, I’ve never been bothered by your references to expats and English teachers . . . not that I agree with all your views, of course.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
you’d be one of those people i’m interested in not offending, jeff. have a good day.
Obligatory video of Korean troops training in the snow:
http://media.smh.com.au/world/world-news/s-koreans-armys-winter-test-1025489.html?&exc_from=strap
I remember my dad taking a shower in cold water no problem when the water heater wasn’t working. He thought I was such a pussy because I couldn’t do it…
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