You may have watched the promo video I posted not too long ago. Well, Snow Jam wrapped up Sunday and drew an audience of 260,000. I’ve posted more info and a photo set that came bundled in a press release I received this morning. Thought I’d share. Let’s hope Seoul hosts more of these kinds of things in the future. I was there and it was pretty impressive.
Snow Jam 2009 Highlights
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Oh, sh*t, why didn’t they have this kind of thing when I was in Seoul?! Is it possible that Seoul has started to actually become cool instead of a place where those picked last for sports as a kid go to make their fortune?
Now THAT’S my kind of “board” meeting!
DLB
Is that an audience of 260,000 people watching it on telly? It’s just that your press release says ’260,000 spectators’, which suggests that there were over quarter of a million people in downtown Seoul watching it right there. Which would be almost ten times as many people who attended the largest American beef protest. So do you mean ‘viewers’?
Good call, Stevie. Yeah, I’d say 260,000 downtown over the weekend. Did you make it out?
I didn’t, no. I was busy elsewhere. Just as well, it would seem, as I doubt there would have been any room for me in downtown Seoul. You do realise that the figure you’re proposing would put your audience within the top 20 largest crowds ever? Was the event going on for a while? Were there a lot of people passing through or something?
Seems like lil’ Stevie can’t count in English….like most Koreans I know:) Maybe he thought you meant 26 million, eh G?
What exactly does that mean, leguwan?
Do you know how many people there were at Woodstock? I mean the 1960s Woodstock, one of the biggest concerts of all time, and a defining moment in history. How many? 400,000 people.
I’m sure it was an exciting and well-organized event, but I’m not sure that Snow Jam could have drawn a crowd nearly as large as Woodstock. All I’m saying is that it sounds like somebody has got their figures confused.
“Do you know how many people there were at Woodstock? I mean the 1960s Woodstock, one of the biggest concerts of all time, and a defining moment in history. How many? 400,000 people.”
Yes, 400 000 people in the middle of nowhere at a time when people didn’t travel for such things. It’s a relatively small number of people when you look at what some free concerts have been able to attract since (attendance counted in the millions).
Seoul is one of the most densely populated cities in the world…The only thing Seoul and Pyeongchang have in common is that they are both in South Korea. So, how does the event help Pyeongchang’s Olympics bid, again?
I’m still not convinced. The largest crowd ever was Rod Stewart performing on Copacobana Beach in Brazil (unbelievable, I know, but it should be noted that it was also New Year’s Eve), when the crowd was 3.5 million. The next largest was Metallica, at an airfield in Moscow, which clocked up 1,600,000. Woodstock comes in at number 11, with 400,000. Therefore, in the list of largest event attendence crowds ever, it would be safe to say that Snow Jam should maybe come in around number 20. Can you see what’s wrong with this picture?
Let’s look at the other figure – 45,000 foreigners. That would require every single person on an E2 visa to have participated, along with the same number of people again, and then another 5,000. Maybe the other foreigners were not white? Maybe they were Chinese? Then how the hell were they counted and distinguished from Koreans in the crowd?
It seems to me that these figures have an extra zero on them, and I just think it would be a good idea to double-check them before doing anything like sharing them with the press and therefore making the event organizers look stoopid.
I’m with Stevie on the numbers.
And, however you look at it, this was a bullshit event, the purpose of which was to draw attention to Seoul. G, do you have any idea how much Seoul City Marketing kicked in for this? In terms of actual coverage outside of Korea, this event generated….ZERO. So the ROI was…ZERO.
Even the press release was BS, citing some independent research company to show that 90% of the people surveyed thought that the event raised Korea’s profile. My god…wishing it…saying it…won’t make it so.
LG was prominent, of course. So, keep up the good work, HS Ad!
HS Ad? Hmmm. That’s sounds familiar. Aren’t they owned by WPP, which also owns Young & Rubicom, which came up with the LG “Ponder” ads?
Or am I totally off-base here?
DLB
Spring Love’s singer is probably right on this. Saying that 260k people were there at the same time it’s hard to believe. If 260k people were there passing by, staying a while, leaving, and other people coming and going, then it could be.
Has anybody done the math to check if that is possible (people/sqmt), considering the available area ?
Besides his references, think about sports: Barcelona’s soccer stadium seats roughly 100,000 people, and it’s the largest in Europe. The Maracana stadium, in Brazil, seats roughly 90,000 people. This is the largest soccer stadium in South America. So, in practical terms, they are saying that they had roughly 3 full Maracana crowds attending the event, on the streets, in the middle of the avenue. Really, really hard to believe, specially when you look at the pictures…
I’m not surprised with fabricated numbers, though. But it’s unnecessary. Just call it a nice event, let’s say, a start for a future stronger event. Doesn’t need to be the greatest event on earth from its first edition.
And if what was written above is true, I mean, saying that people thought that this “raised Korea’s profile”…this is beyond sad. Why an event like this would “raise a country’s profile” ??
Again, call it a nice thing that happened. Start building too much on it, and it looses everything.
The event lasted three days. The number most likely accounts for that entire period. As for there being 45,000 foreigners, I’d say it is feasible. You should take into account that people likely traveled from outside Seoul. I got emails from people outside asking me about the itinerary and directions.
Furthermore, as for recognition, if you comb around a little, you’ll find that this event has been held in countries throughout the world and with a notch in Seoul’s belt, it may not be short term global recognition, but it will certainly be long term. I’ll happily bet you on that.
And as for how it will help Pyeongchang, it’s success will account for a great deal when it comes to whether or not this country is fit for hosting events of this magnitude.
Stevie, you weren’t even there. You happen to catch it on the telly? It was a kick ass event. Maybe have your crew go down and tally up the next event. I’ll have my notepad ready.
Whether I was there or not is irrelevant, G. I’m not trying to discredit the event or pick an argument. All I’m saying is that I seriously, seriously doubt that 260,000 people went to central Seoul to watch a snowboarding event, no matter how ‘kick ass’ it was. I’m not disputing that the event was well-organized, or exciting, or anything like that – all I’m saying is that your figures are not even vaguely credible and that you should check how they were calculated before you start spreading them around the internet and putting them in press releases.
If you doubt me, have a look here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7491482.stm
The picture that accompanies that article shows what 35,000 people in central Seoul looks like. Were there eight times as many people at Snow Jam?
I don’t doubt you, nor fully discredit you. Was just surprised to find a great deal of nitpicking going on here. As I mentioned before, I see your point. But understand that I simply posted this based on the press release I received yesterday morning. The focus on the figures alone sort of belittles the actual even itself, no? That’s all I’m saying. If everyone’s up in arms about the exact tally, then the whole event would be written off as a failure. And, as I was there, I’d say it was a far-cry from being a dud. All this resistance simply inhibits any kind of progress in this city overall.
My issue is just that if the organizers are sending out press releases claiming that more than quarter of a million people attended the event, it’s going to make them – and by extension, Seoul – look stupid. That’s not going to do them any favours re/ the Winter Olympics.
My co-worker just confirmed it. Coming in and out of the event there were between 260,000~300,000 people in attendance. They had people stationed at subway exits and various other posts.
So about 5% of population of Seoul, (counting boys, girls, infants, senior citizens, everyone).
Is your coworker one of the same people who estimate how many protesters attend their political rallies?
Right. 1.6% of the entire population of South Korea attended this event. That’s some crowd. It’s surprising then that I don’t know a single person who went.
It was definitely NOT a dud. Counting attendance over 3 days means the same person will be counted every day they attended – and even then it’s just an estimate. Their numbers probably aren’t that far off – and with the electronic subway / bus cards, it would be easy to extrapolate how many people traveled to that area, assume a certain percentage are there to see the festivities and voila.
Beyond all that though, what does it matter to you if their numbers are skewed? It’s not like it affects you in some way…
It doesn’t affect me, no – not directly, anyway. I’m sure the event was good, and if I hadn’t already had other plans, I would have been sure ot pop along. However, when first I glimpsed those numbers, my immediate thought was how utterly ridiculous they were. They’re obviously wrong, I thought. Why are they being published? I wondered. Are they lying deliberately? Do they have an agenda? Or are they just plain incompetent?
Now, if those are my thoughts as a layman, what would someone more important than me think? Someone, say, who’s part of the selection committee for the Winter Olympics, or some other big cheese who might have an event to stage or promote. What might there thoughts be? It’d be fair for them to wonder if there’s anyone involved in the promotion of Seoul that’s not an idiot…
Christ, Stevie, you really are a persistent little bugger, aren’t ya. I’ll go so far as to grant you that.
As for the number of comments I’ve seen belaboring this issue, I’m not really sure how to go about answering whether or not the figures are accurate or not, nor if they were exaggerated to generate a sense of greater appeal. Frankly, the event’s overall success alone accomplished that by a long shot. I think people fail to see that with all the focus being on the accuracy of the numbers and what they think city officials are trying to suggest.
I just think events of this nature and magnitude are meant to be enjoyed and not beaten to death over certain specifics. That isn’t to say that I advocate misleading people, but I hardly think the number count alone justifies whether or not Snow Jam was a success. And it certainly wasn’t used as a means of impressing the International Olympic Committee.
I thought this thread should have ended intelligently with Chris in South Korea’s last comment – of which, I hoped would truly silent your gum flapping, but sadly it hasn’t.
Quite simple really. You’ve either never set foot on a snow peak, or you’re just out for blood. Either way, it makes no matter. What it does do is spoil it for the rest of us lot who went out, had a crackin’ time and went home to blog about it.
If none of your friends told you about it, then maybe you need to scope out new ones with a sense of adventure.
Let’s not get personal with this, G. I’m not ‘out for blood’, I’m just saying that if you issue a press release suggesting that one of the largest crowds in Korea’s history has attended an event, you open yourself up to mockery. I know that this is not a new occurrence in the world of Korean PR, but at some point, good sense and reason has to intervene.
And as I said, I knew about the event, but I had better things to do.
I’ve got to admit that the first thing I thought of when I read about this was how come there were 260,000 people there as spectators or in attendance. It’s just an unbelievable figure, especially as photos seem to show traffic still in the area. In fact the photos seem to show that very few people were watching. Admittedly 260,000 people might have passed through the downtown area in the three days on all the subway trains, buses, etc., that go through there, but they don’t count as spectators and the way this is written it certainly gives the impression that they were all there to see the event.
If the number isn’t important, why is it mentioned at the beginning of the press release? So it obviously it being taken as being significant. And this is important, as if the readers can’t believe the numbers, how can they believe anything else that is being stated – or any other information provided by the Seoul government (or Olympic officials since this is also linked to the Pyeongchang bid). This kind of exaggeration just leaves a complete sense of distrust in any organizations related to its release.
According to KBS…
“The city government of Seoul tallied up an audience of roughly 260 thousand people – 65 thousand on the 11th, 95 thousand on the 12th, and 100 thousand on the 13th – came to Gwanghwamun to enjoy the winter festival. A sample study of spectators showed that 15% or some 45 thousand of them were foreigners, implying that this event has helped put Gwanghwamun Plaza on the tourist map as a must-see destination.”
There’s your answer. Now the question is: Did this event achieve what appears to be its main goal of having “dramatically effects [sic] on Seoul’s brand power?” Doubt it. You don’t dramatically improve a brand by cheerleading, you achieve it by demonstrating. That is to say, a short one-off event like this will have much less effect on Seoul’s brand than a more permanent installation, like Bukchon Hanok Village or even Cheonggyecheon.
So, while Snow Jam may have been kick-ass and a good time for residents of Seoul, there are a number of other things that the city could do to raise its awareness much more effectively. Robert talks about one all the time on this blog: Instead of destroying the city’s historical and cultural assests for the sake of redevelopment, maybe the city government should try to preserve the things that set Korea apart from the rest of the world.
StevieBee…..I lived in Athens, Greece back in the last century and political rallies in and around constitution square REGULARLY drew crowds of a million or more. There were aerial photos to prove it
Again, have a look at what 35,000 people in the centre of Seoul looks like: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asi…..491482.stm
Then have a look at the photos released by the organizers: http://hermithideaways.com/2009/12/14/snow-jam-success/
Where exactly are the thronging masses? Where is the 33% of Seoul’s entire foreign population? And another thing – if you have a three day event, you don’t add up the three days attendances and give the result as the total attendance; you take an average of the three days, or give the highest day’s attendance.
Again, I’m not trying to discredit the event. I’m just saying that releasing ludicrous figures such as these MAKE SEOUL LOOK STUPID.
“And as for how it will help Pyeongchang, it’s success will account for a great deal when it comes to whether or not this country is fit for hosting events of this magnitude.”
Not convinced it erases the fact that most World Cup games were played in nearly empty stadiums…and that’s despite the fact that kids were being bused in.
Not convinced it erases the fact that most World Cup games were played in nearly empty stadiums…
I says pardon? Near… empty? Maybe you were under a rock when the players were in town. I went to two games and have never seen so many people streaming through the streets in my life.
As for StevieBee, I think you’re lost in one of your delusional daydreams again… if you’re really in to counting, then impress us all and count sheep.
Right, right, it’s ME that’s delusional. It’s ME that thinks it’s perfectly plausible that a quarter of a million people would show to watch some snowboarding in the middle of Seoul.
I drove through Gwanghwamun both days with little delay. There were no more than 2,000 people there at any given time. Think about it, with the streets open and most of the median park taken up with the ski jump there just isn’t space for many people. But, hey, maybe they were counting every passerby who had to go through the area; I wonder if mere presence was enough to get counted or whether they had to see you at least looking in the right direction? Hell, maybe they counted me and the passengers in my car. LOL.
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