CBC Radio’s “The Current” talks with Dann Gaymer, Younggoog Park, Andrea Vandom, Ben Wagner and, my personal favorite, Steve Snowball about anti-English teacher sentiment in Korea. A sample:
Dann Gaymer has been living and teaching in South Korea for three years. And like other English teachers there, he’s watching his back. That’s because of what some view as a growing anti-foreigner sentiment in the country… a mood that foreign teachers say is being fueled by a group known as The Anti-English Spectrum.
Listen to it on your own.
{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
Mommy help me!!! I can’t speak a word of Korean, and I’ve never actually looked at anti-English spectrum, but I heard it exists, and it makes me feel so bad in my tummy. Mommmyyyyyyyy!!!!!
sulperman: That is not even remotely accurate. It makes me wonder if you in fact listened to the radio show linked above. Hope the irony isn’t lost on you.
well, the chickens do come home to roost. Yes, I know that (mostly white) English teachers appear to be a bunch of whiners, especially next to their darker brethren from India. But both of these recent efforts are actually part of making this country a better place, not only for foreigners, but also for a great number of Korean people who really want nothing to do with this old-school nationalism. I would claim ‘majority’ but then again I only interact with people that really like foreigners, so clearly my view is skewed. If I am wrong, and these fair minded Koreans are NOT a majority, then the afore-mentioned whiny and perhaps not so whiny activities serve the purpose of raising consciousness to the fair-minded types, especially to the collusion of press and authorities with this ‘moral majority’ (remember them? they TRULY were neither)- and this is my beef, that I recognize this pattern from the recent history of the U.S., and I’d fervently wish that Korea could avoid this sort of nonsense. The answer to one highly vocal minority is the same, in this case, in my humble opinion.
Ha, naw, didn’t listen to it, but believe me, I’ve heard it all before.
It’s just so dramatic. Such a production over one little website. Our lives here aren’t that romantic, and we aren’t battling the forces of evil in order to make the world a better place for rainbows and teddy bears. It is a fight between the people of eslcafe and anti-english blah blah. And which site is has more hateful stuff written on it?
And here’s this……
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/list-us-hate-groups.htm
‘But both of these recent efforts are actually part of making this country a better place, not only for foreigners’
i get so sick of hearing this kind of crap from the et. who the hell asked you to make korea ‘a better place’?
‘It is a fight between the people of eslcafe and anti-english blah blah. And which site is has more hateful stuff written on it?’
why don’t you answer the question, et?
“i get so sick of hearing this kind of crap from the et. who the hell asked you to make korea ‘a better place’? ”
nobody asked them. good people don’t need to be asked to make places better.
(a.k.a. Extra! Korea)
Shouldn’t a Hat Tip be given to Gusts of Popular Feeling or Brian in Jeollanam-do?
Should it?
So you found this on your own?
Well, it’s certainly possible I did, although in this case, I got it via email from ATEK. And another guy sent it to me earlier in the morning.
OK. I jumped to conclusions, and I shouldn’t have.
However, having said that, you could have stated that right from the beginning, instead of giving a snarky response.
Well, I suppose I could have. But where’s the fun in that?
pawikirogi – seek professional help, man. Did you find a hairball in your wheaties this morning? I won’t make you angry by saying ‘crap like’ “I feel sorry for you” – but I can feel all that venom and bile eating away at your insides, fella. Lighten up and you will live longer and better!
typical scummy expat. tsk, tsk, tsk. can’t argue a point.
@ #12
Indeed. Given a choice between solving a misunderstanding, and creating animosity, why not choose the latter?
Truth be told, I might have chosen to respond sans snark, but unfortunately, Wangkon jumped to the same conclusion as you in another post this morning:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/12/11/james-bradley-on-teddy-roosevelts-responsibility-for-the-pacific-war-i-e-taft-katsura/#comment-355225
One accusation of that sort a day, I can handle. Two, and somebody’s going to have to eat some snark. So if animosity has been created, it’s all Wangkon’s fault.
why bother trying to argue a point with a troll who’s usual response is an insult? We all know it’s pointless and only encourages the troll who shall not be named to continue his incoherent tirades against people he’s never met, living lives he’s never lived. Banning him will only encourage him to sign on with a different name– at least this way we know who to ignore just by looking at the username.
@14 & Robert, since pawi gets to use epithets against non-Koreans, does that mean we can respond in kind?
If so I would like to call him a Garlic-gobbed, shelf-stacking, bodega-dwelling, Semi-Jap invader and invite him to go home.
If not I sincerely appologize!
Golly, they sicced the CBC on ‘ya.
See the misfortune that follows when you let the Canuckis in your country.
Next thing you know they’ll be gathering. Granted, it’ll be around a VCR watching “Kids in the Hall”. Or a flash mob in the shape of a maple leaf – they love flash mobs. But they’ll be together.
And once their stash dries up they’ll start plotting. Un-Korean changes.
Pawi, dial 113.
Figured “Watch your back, AES” would be a better headline, since now teachers are starting to fight back in the media.
Wait….am I being accused of trolling or is it Pawi?
If it’s me- I don’t mean to come across as an ass. But I do feel strongly about this.
I think that one should have his own house in order before telling somebody else to clean up theirs. Eslcafe is a useful site, and I use it myself. But a lot of what goes on there is far nastier, and far harsher than anything said on anti english spectrum. So where is the outrage about that?
That is really all I have to say about that.
I want to know if Steve Snowball is a real person. Let’s talk more about that.
Steve Snowball.
This isn’t only about the way English teachers are treated, it’s about minorities in korea in general. Even hypocrite gyopo draft dodgers who don’t do, or have never done anything for korea should be able to see this.
Imagine if there was a group in another country that targets koreans the same way AES targets English teachers.
What would koreans do or say if the majority of them were targeted and portrayed in US newspapers as disease carrying, women raping etc… foreigners?
How would koreans react to a cartoon being published in a national newspaper of a korean holding a knife and chasing down a poor innocent black or white girl in the US?
What would happen if a group encouraged non-koreans to stalk koreans?
How would koreans react to these things?
AGAIN, look at the situation born and raised in korea biracial koreans find themselves in in korea. That will tell you just about everything you need to know.
I don’t see what’s not to like about this CBC radio happening. The Marmot is teasing with the “Watch Your Back!” emphasis, but wouldn’t even the biggest English teacher hater be thrilled with this press?
AES finally has the ears of the pot-smoking, K-gal poking mother-ship: Oh Canada! And the message going out to millions of listeners is – choose another country if you are looking to fuck around.
Otherwise – watch your back!
What could be better??
The haters here tend to be so ignorant that they don’t know a good thing even when it spits right in their face.
@21:
You’re a troll!
I don’t use ESL cafe, and I have problem with racists, be they on Dave’s or AES.
The difference between Dave’s and AES is that AES has the ear of the people in power in this country. There is clear evidence that they were instrumental in the recent law saying (basically), “All teachers must get AIDS and Drugs tested, and an apostilled Criminal background check. But only if you’re not Korean”
If you want to sit here and argue that’s not fucked up, you’re a troll.
The fact that some white people in Korea are racist assholes doesn’t mean the Korean racist assholes get a pass.
If you are commenting on a blog, it’s not a good idea to accuse the blogmaster to be a troll.
sulperman is the blogmaster? I’m confused…
#25,
Yes, more or less the point I would make.
Like it or not, for some people DEC is an outlet for their frustration and disillusionment (I’m not excusing them. Yes, there are far more positive ways to cope). Fact is, this won’t change as long any schmo can open an English hagwon and insist on hiring young (dare I say, immature and ill-prepared) people on the cheap and then doesn’t follow through with his contractual obligations. Given the government’s ridiculous solution to the problem, a program to hire even younger Korean-American for even less money, I don’t think we will see light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon.
The media should lend its ears to those who have a sound solution, not those who contribute to the problem (such as xenophobic groups and politicians with a penchant for grandstanding).
No, the korean is a blogmaster and it’s his blog. You can tell by the number of comments. And the admonishments. I thought wangkon was the blogmaster because he comments even more, but he’s probably just jobless.
Wait a minute, this is the MH…I though it was Ask A Korean, but there are way too many comments here for it to be that blog. Appears even the korean has abandoned his blog.
If you host a party, and no one comes, is it a party?
Would the requirement of a TESOL or equivalent qualification make a difference? I know some of these are not worth the paper they are printed on, but there must be a quality program that the Korean government could insist upon as a standard. Even better still, require new E2s to do one in-country, a one month residential stint at a Korean university before being unleashed on an unsuspecting public.
Can we drop the troll talk? Thanks.
BTW, AES’s administrator is denying the CBC contacted him. And he’s not happy.
http://cafe.naver.com/englishspectrum
Nothing to see here. Go home.
At least one ET is letting it all roll off his back, should keep Pawi et al happy,
http://yankeenom.blogspot.com/2009/12/golden-balls-sparkling_11.html
Comedy gold!
aaronm, speaking of standards, seeing how Korea has rendered the already meaningless IQ test meaningless, it might be a good idea to replace it with an RQ – Rationality Quotient:
http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/feature/why-people-are-irrational-kurt-kleiner/
Mr. Koehler:
I’m not sure I understand.
For some reason, you don’t like ‘troll talk’, but, but looking comment 4, you don’t seem to mind people making comments on your blog with out actually reading (or in this case listening) to what you took the time to post, and just spouting whatever drivel happens to be in their mind at the time.
Not to brownose, but I appreciate the time you take to post things here, and as a fellow Long Islander, enjoy your take on all things Korea. If I were you, I would be a little offended by people who can’t even take the time to learn about the issue at hand before they use your blog as a sounding board for their irrationality.
“Troll” does seem to be an apt term for someone like that. Someone who posts before they think, just to piss people off.
What term would you prefer be used to describe an argument that uses neither the facts at hand nor logic? Lazy? Arrogant? Spam? I can think of far less polite ways to describe people who argue like that.
BTW, AES’s administrator is denying the CBC contacted him. And he’s not happy.
Oh man, that sucks when the media doesn’t give you a fair shake.
It hurts pretty bad when the Korean Embassy spokesman call you a “reactionary” as well I guess.
But like I said before, it’s a win-win situation. CBC is some serious press and targeted just where you want it the damn Canooks.
If they want to come to Korea to smoke up and bang the chicks they know now to watch their backs! Go to Japan with that shit! Right?
englishmonkey: Sorry, I was referring more to the debate over which commenter was the troll. Seemed like a couple of commenters were wondering who was what.
Robert has to protect the trolls. They are, after all, his commentors.
By the way, it’s easy to identify the troll. It’s always the other guy.
I don’t believe you actually read DEC. It’s populated by a cuntful of ignoramuses, each one who knows more about Korea than the next guy, and all arguing about it together, and not a single one of them knows what they’re talking about.
It’s a cesspool of idiots. But if you find a cesspool of idiots helpful, I’m wondering what that makes you.
That’s terrible that a media source would make shit up about you. Just awful.
Considering that some if not most Koreans worship whites, I don’t think the white English teachers here have to watch their backs.
@41:
If by ‘worship’ you mean “think something needs to be done about the problem of White/Asian miscegenation,” you have a good point.
was talking about Pawi, and since then he hasn’t been back has he? Don’t feed the trolls.
-”aaronm, speaking of standards, seeing how Korea has rendered the already meaningless IQ test meaningless, it might be a good idea to replace it with an RQ – Rationality Quotient:”-
umm……arent there more korean atheists than american atheists? isnt that more rational?
“I don’t believe you actually read DEC. It’s populated by a cuntful of ignoramuses, each one who knows more about Korea than the next guy, and all arguing about it together, and not a single one of them knows what they’re talking about.”
There may be some stupidity on DEC, but there are also many helpful teaching activities, advice for ESL newcomers, job opportunities, and some people who do know their way around employer/employee contracts issues. There is much more to that site than the Korean Discussion forum.
I still don’t get why ATEK and others think HIV tests are discriminatory. They obviously haven’t seen the application forms for work visas in their own countries . . .
“and invite him to go home.”
He is home, in American, and if you meant korea we don’t want him thanks.
“What term would you prefer be used to describe an argument that uses neither the facts at hand nor logic? Lazy? Arrogant? Spam?”
Korean.
skindleshanks,
“They obviously haven’t seen the application forms for work visas in their own countries . . .”
The past HIV/AIDS and drug tests required by Korea’s Immigration Service(KIS)weren’t technically part of the application process. It wasn’t law, only a “rule” and KIS required people to take the tests after arriving in country which according to Korea’s constitution people/teachers are treated equally. KIS recently stopped that “rule” pending a(Andrea Vandom) supreme court case 2009헌마358…
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_print.asp?menu=f10600&no=385698&rel_no=1&isPrint=print
However, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education(SMOE) and other educational offices thoughout S. Korea still discriminate…
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/12/04/200912040006.asp
The U.S. used to have the HIV/AIDS test as part of Immigration law but Obama recently signed a bill that abolished it.
SOME?!?
Those are ON the “discussion” forums; if you can slog your way through the shit long enough, I’m sure you can find one or two good posts. But who has the patience to do so?
As for the people who know their way around contract issues, name 3 that have not been banned or driven away by the mods for one reason or another over the last 3 months. I checked the place out recently, and I can’t believe all the socks…I mean newbies, on the site. And where are the helpful vets? Nowhere to be seen.
These days, VERY few of the helpful people even bother with what that site has turned into. With my direct experience working with labor and immigration, I was one of those people who tried to help, but I can’t be bothered to help the ignoramuses and trolls anymore. The idiot masses want to shout down everyone with their in-fighting and stupidity, so be it. Fuck’em.
these pages only help you if you are stuck teaching kids, need to find a job teaching kids, or feel like a change of pace by getting fucked by a lower tier university that needs to advertise their jobs there because no one with qualifications would touch them.
It’s a cesspool of idiocy, and I can’t take anyone seriously who will defend that place, good links to teaching activities notwithstanding.
#50. Darth, you make some good points, and in all honesty I haven’t visited the site in some time to see what’s going on with it. However, I once received a good bit of help from someone regarding Korean pension issues a few years back at DEC, and I also hooked a friend up with a decent job found on their job boards.
Perhaps I am defending them because I too felt like getting a change of pace a while ago and am currently “getting fucked by a lower tier university” job that I found on Dave’s. Woe is me….my horrible 4 months of paid vacation doesn’t make me happy!
yankeenom!
Aaronm, nice find there with the yankeenom.
I second that, cmm. One of the most refreshing blogs ever. I hereby declare Aaronm is a solid member of the international sock community – top drawer, as you might say. And you’ve just got to love that hat.
Small world. Steve Snowball is a good friend of mine, and I know all about his time in the kimchi slammer. It’s a wild story how he ended up caught. The thing is, he smoked his chronic outside of Korea, and got nabbed for it that way. Though the school he’d worked at was also a hotbed for it. His story would make a great screenplay in the vein of the Truman Show. Steve is a great, funny guy, with charisma, which is why I think he was targeted by the undercover journalist – who sunk lower than low in seeking out what she wanted to cover on ESL teachers. Anyways, his name is what it is really.
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