Open Thread #127

by Robert Koehler on November 28, 2009

in Open Thread

Go to town.

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{ 191 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Seth Gecko November 28, 2009 at 11:55 am

At my gym there’s a big video screen that shows k-pop perfomances. Sounds like a lame place to work out, huh? The only bright side is that KARA is on alot, and i never tire of watching the girls form a circle and do their bum dance. La la la la la la :)

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2 bumfromkorea November 28, 2009 at 12:01 pm

At my gym there’s… CNN.

Thank god Wolf Blitzer isn’t forming a circle with his correspondents and doing their bum dance…

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3 JW November 28, 2009 at 12:08 pm

All this time, I can’t believe Mr “I find your H-Mart logo stupid” has yet to comment on the fact that bumfromkorea’s logo looks like a golden pile of 똥. What’s up with that, man?

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4 NetizenKim November 28, 2009 at 1:31 pm

Who the fuck thought that it was a good idea that Buddha should look like Jabba the Hut?

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5 JW November 28, 2009 at 1:36 pm

Double standards Wangkon, double standards. I don’t appreciate it one bit.

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6 mkaplan November 28, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Who the fuck thought that it was a good idea that Buddha should look like Jabba the Hut?

Yeah, he probably looked more like Bonojit Hussein in reality, especially after he became a mendicant.

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7 abcdefg November 28, 2009 at 2:10 pm

I thought it was a pile of golden ddong, too. Other countries have their tropes and mythologies and psychological archetypes. Koreans have ddong, or so I’ve gathered. Thusly, I’ve never bothered to screw my eyes up and give a closer look at “Bum” from Korea’s avatar. Ah damn, homies – My mind’s playin’ tricks on me!

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8 bumfromkorea November 28, 2009 at 2:21 pm

It stems from a recurring joke with a bunch of my friends after finding out about Guilford College’s mascot.

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9 iheartblueballs November 28, 2009 at 5:32 pm

Be careful out there people. I’d advise checking under your bed before you go to sleep. You just never know where the “diversity” boogeyman may be hiding.

It’s well known among Real Americans that if you let your guard down for even a split second, that’s more than enough time for he and his shady pals to cornhole your wife, fill your kids’ Ipod with gangsta rap, take er jobs, steal all your tax dollars, and fill your neighborhood with enough kogi taco trucks to feed an army.

Next thing you know they’re teaching your kids Chinese instead of English, little Johnny has to wear a sombrero to school on Cinco de Mayo, and your teenage daughter is so brainwashed with multi-culti bullshit that she’s got no white friends left and you have to pretend her minority friends don’t scare you.

It’s a slippery slope comrades…you all need to wake up, heed the sage advice of Glenn Beck and take your country back.

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10 Railwaycharm November 28, 2009 at 6:08 pm

Blueballs, the pathological White Guilt won’t allow for us to take it back. We are too proud of our recent enlightenment (stupidity).
Stay tuned for the 39% tax bracket to slap you down.

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11 mkaplan November 28, 2009 at 6:46 pm

Quite a few Americans have quietly evaded all of those cultural enrichments you’ve kindly catalogued for us by moving, living in gated communities, sending their children to private schools, etc. And many of these Americans who have carefully excused themselves from all the various wonders of “diversity” seem to enjoy exhibiting their sense of moral superiority by sarcastically mocking their social inferiors in Middle America that may explicitly express their “discomfort” with “diversity” (as opposed to having the luxury to prudently and quietly vote with their feet like their betters).

Now it seems likely that fewer and fewer Americans will have the opportunity to escape “diversity,” as the middle class stagnates and erodes even further, and credit fueled sprawl and suburban growth slows. So as more Americans are forced to confront “diversity,” rather than cheerlead it from a distance, perhaps more will begin to wake up.

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12 Jing November 28, 2009 at 7:02 pm

This shit practically writes itself. Gotta say that it beats hiding out in Seoul by far.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11......html?_r=1

Tree hugging hippy arrested in China on drug charges, has pre-existing warrant in US for arson, terrorism.

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13 yuna November 28, 2009 at 7:24 pm

look at them all – hungry for the 2-year-old hipster fad in the rest of the world.. (i think apple is ok, but i have an inherent allergy against anything which is considered “cool” by the mass)

This guy is the first customer who opened an account with an iphone – waxing lyrical – came all prepared for the interview with 4/5 phones in his bag and everything…
what diligence…

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14 Sonagi November 28, 2009 at 9:45 pm

Who the fuck thought that it was a good idea that Buddha should look like Jabba the Hut?

The Chinese.

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15 vince November 28, 2009 at 10:52 pm

Diversity is just your distraction. It’s the financier’s and their government collaborators who are destroying people’s lives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ature=fvwp

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16 dogbertt November 28, 2009 at 11:23 pm

Nonsense.

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17 hardyandtiny November 28, 2009 at 11:51 pm

The air quality in Seoul is really bad this weekend.

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18 craig November 28, 2009 at 11:59 pm

For #11. If you come from a hill town of New English, uneffected by emigration the rest of the Union looks as its smelt some bad gas. No gates here, only old stories.

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19 craig November 29, 2009 at 12:00 am

New English ~ New England

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20 hardyandtiny November 29, 2009 at 12:17 am

“Tree hugging hippy arrested in China on drug charges, has pre-existing warrant in US for arson, terrorism.”

Can we charge terrorism?

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21 babotaengi November 29, 2009 at 12:18 am

Go watch Ninja Assassin. Ludicrous story close scrutiny of which can only cause one to scratch his fucking head til it bleeds, but the brutal carnage throughout had me grinning from ear to ear start to finish.

Besides, in the first two minutes of the film they make damn sure you know if you can stomach this sort of movie or not, so you don’t have to watch half of the film to realize you wanna walk out.

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22 hardyandtiny November 29, 2009 at 12:48 am

“Quite a few Americans have quietly evaded all of those cultural enrichments you’ve kindly catalogued………”

You’re missing the joke.

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23 JW November 29, 2009 at 1:28 am

Hey, is anyone pulling money out of stocks cuz of this dubai shit?

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24 JW November 29, 2009 at 2:00 am

I guess that was a dumb question…

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25 Sonagi November 29, 2009 at 2:24 am

Quite a few Americans have quietly evaded all of those cultural enrichments you’ve kindly catalogued for us by moving, living in gated communities, sending their children to private schools, etc.

In my state, counties with the highest per capita income are also the most ethnically diverse, in contrast to very poor areas where one group, White, Black, or Hispanic, dominates. You’ll find at least one brown person surnamed Gupta in just about any gated community in Loudoun County.

If you come from a hill town of New English, uneffected by emigration …

Are you an English teacher, by chance?

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26 dogbertt November 29, 2009 at 2:30 am

Are you implying that diversity = higher income?

Were those areas of Virginia poor before mass immigration from India?

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27 iheartblueballs November 29, 2009 at 3:12 am

You’re missing the joke.

I thought the boogeyman reference was a dead giveaway. Reminds me of this.

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28 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 3:26 am

hardyandtiny’s gravatar rocks. it’s interesting to look at. the rest of the gravatars here suck donkey.

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29 8675309 November 29, 2009 at 4:13 am

Quite a few Americans have quietly evaded all of those cultural enrichments…(by) sending their children to private schools, etc.

Are those the same private schools that tend to have disproportionately large Jewish and Asian-American enrollment? At least that’s how it is in Chicago, NYC, and all the best East and West Coast prep schools.

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30 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 4:21 am

Yes, white Christians are underrepresented at certain private schools. And they are underrepresented at the top universities as well. What is your point?

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31 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 7:26 am

korea’s multiracial future

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....es.html?hp

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32 8675309 November 29, 2009 at 7:37 am

“…white Christians…”

I’ve always been puzzled by the use of this term, especially in the way Hitler described himself as a “Christian,” and the way he brainwashed the Germans in going along with his master plan for the Holocaust and WWII in general as a crusade to protect and defend the “Aryan race” and “Christianity” against the Jews. Is this how you are employing this term, or are you similarly discriminating against whites who might be atheistic, agnostic, pantheistic, Satanists, Buddhists, or other non-Christian faiths?

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33 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 7:40 am

Looks like Godwin’s Law holds true yet again.

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34 Acropolis7 November 29, 2009 at 8:07 am

! WARNING ! raw footage of a bridge jumping accident.

http://robert-lindsay.blogspot.....video.html

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35 Acropolis7 November 29, 2009 at 8:14 am

Additional info : Video shows a base jump off a bridge that resulted in the kid having his face split in half. Do not click if sqeaumish. You have been warned.

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36 baduk November 29, 2009 at 8:36 am

8675309,

Too many people think they are Christians when in fact they are not.

Christian means “little Christ” and “disciple of Jesus”.

Those who attend church should be called “church-goer” not a Christian.

When the church-goer had born-again experience and do tithe regularly then he may be a Christian. However, the final determination will be made when he dies and stands in front of Jesus.

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37 JW November 29, 2009 at 8:44 am

Isn’t it entirely possible to create national unity around the idea of “Diversity”? If the biggest problem with diversity is “Us vs Them” psychology, then the obvious answer in the face of continued immigration and ethnic diversity is “Diversity is Us”. Shit, if we can do it with the idea of Freedom, why not Diversity? Diversity, after all, is just another way of saying Freedom.

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38 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 9:07 am

Depends on what “diversity” signifies – a melting pot or multi-culturalism. The first demonstrably works worked; the second is demonstrably failing

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39 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 9:07 am

Depends on what “diversity” signifies – a melting pot or multi-culturalism. The first demonstrably works worked; the second is demonstrably failing

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40 JW November 29, 2009 at 9:26 am

But I have doubts about the supposed severity of the problem posed by multi-culturalism. Seeing how n korean defectors who seem eons away in their worldview are able to adapt (not necessarily well, but simply adapt) within a matter of years, I cannot see how this can be an excuse for freaking out as if it’s a concern with priority over say, global warming. No way. Not even close.

I mean shit, people in France are adapted to taking showers once a week, in a fully developed country, if rumors are to be believed. Sounds crazy to us Americans, but they do it. Why do some people have so little faith in the ability for people to adapt?

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41 JW November 29, 2009 at 9:43 am

Isn’t radical individualism espoused by americans like Ayn Rand basically multiculturalism? Has this been a major problem?

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42 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 9:58 am

Isn’t radical individualism espoused by americans like Ayn Rand basically multiculturalism?

No.

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43 JW November 29, 2009 at 10:02 am

Well, only in the pretty important sense that both are offered as alternatives to collectivism of some sort. Am I still off? hehe shit

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44 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 11:00 am

‘Isn’t it entirely possible to create national unity around the idea of “Diversity”?’

yes, as long as that diversity is within the same racial group. go look at that half vietnamese baby from the nyt article. that baby can fit into korean society. some muslim baby cold not.

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45 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 11:05 am

Well, only in the pretty important sense that both are offered as alternatives to collectivism of some sort. Am I still off? hehe shit

Well, the mere fact that both contradict colletivism doesn’t meake them equivalent. Logic 101

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46 paulhewson November 29, 2009 at 11:09 am

That Robert Harley instant noodle commercial is really starting to piss me off. If I have to watch it one more time I am going to puke my balls out through my mouth. It is nearly as irritating as that Rushee Cashee commercial. Nearly.

What’s the matter Harley? You bought twenty cars and two castles and now you are in as deep as Nicholas Cagey? Nothing worse than seeing a grown Way Gook Een bending over and prostituting himself on Korean TV.

That’s right buddy. Slurp and swallow. Slurp and swallow. Then go to the bank. Delicious!!!

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47 JW November 29, 2009 at 11:19 am

But the fact that multiculturalism contradicts collective unity is what is being trumpted as the problem! If radical individualism in the U.S. didn’t cause serious society wide problems in its inherent tendencies against collective unity, then does this not count as *a* piece of evidence that can be used to support the notion that multiculturalism in the U.S. in the capacity of a tendency against collective unity is nothing to get freaked out by?

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48 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 11:19 am

yes, as long as that diversity is within the same racial group. go look at that half vietnamese baby from the nyt article. that baby can fit into korean society. some muslim baby cold not.

You really are a racist, then; don’t expect anyone to give you any credence when you criticize others for that despicable form of prejudice or otherwise try to use the epithet as a way of deflecting criticism of your BS that is not itself race-based.

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49 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 11:28 am

But the fact that multiculturalism contradicts collective unity is what is being trumpted as the problem! If radical individualism in the U.S. didn’t cause serious society wide problems in its inherent tendencies against collective unity, then does this not count as *a* piece of evidence that can be used to support the notion that multiculturalism in the U.S. in the capacity of a tendency against collective unity is nothing to get freaked out by?

unity doesn’t necessarily socially require, let alone logically entail, collectivism; and multiculturalism is demonstrably capable of undermining (and imo does necessarily undermine) any kind of effective unity.

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50 dogbertt November 29, 2009 at 11:32 am

yes, as long as that diversity is within the same racial group.

So you are working to destroy national unity in the U.S. then.

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51 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 11:33 am

it’s rare for me to call anybody a racist, sperwer. i just call ‘em like i see ‘em. white people are going to lose control of their countiresand you have only yourself to blame. korea must be smart about immigration and allow only those who can fit in. btw, i do support the immigration of caucasians to korea since such unions produce such pretty people. that’s good for korea’s gene pool.

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52 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 11:34 am

‘So you are working to destroy national unity in the U.S. then.’

yep.

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53 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 11:34 am

I wonder whether there’s an affirmative action program for kyopos in the Hole.

The Marmot goes all out to make the kyopos feel welcome, defends them in public(haven’t seen him do that with the expats), openly sides with them when they get into arguments with expats, and even praises the likes of pawi. To be fair, he did suspend wjk and tolerates expats who make less than polite remarks about Korea. However one gets the feeling that wjk was sacrificed so that the Marmot won’t have to contend with criticism that he was giving wjk too much space.

Anyway, how the Marmot runs his blog is his business, but my hope is that he be more impartial when it comes to dealing with commentators.

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54 vince November 29, 2009 at 11:35 am

@JW I appreciate your trying to create a workable definition of diversity.

Here’s one to try out: Diversity means understanding and recognizing people’s individual differences which may include: race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, age, physical abilities, religious beliefs, political beliefs, or other ideologies.

Re: “as long as that diversity is within the same racial group. go look at that half vietnamese baby from the nyt article. that baby can fit into korean society. some muslim baby cold not.”

You continue to embarrass yourself. Islam is a religion, not a race. And there are millions of Asian muslims. Why America attracts uneducated idiots like you is probably the reason everything is going to shit there.

@30 Something tells me the dude with the jewish last name visiting this site wasn’t a recipient of the elite educational opportunities.

And when a Jew demonizes diversity, it’s a tell tale sign that they are alienated from their own Jewish society (and probably society in general). Jew, collectively make one of the most diverse groups I can think of, despite the fact that it is both religion and a racial identity. http://www.threejews.net/

I suggest comparison of North Korea to Singapore in terms of diversity and quality of life to help illustrate the benefits of diversity. If that’s too black and white, try North versus South Korea. Which is more diverse and what is the nature of the diversity as it effects the quality of life?

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55 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 11:41 am

are you kidding? the marmot has asked me a few times when i’ll be going out to commit mass murder. you must be new here.

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56 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 11:42 am

a grown Way Gook Een bending over and prostituting himself on Korean TV.

To be fair, Robert Harley ain’t the only grown Way Gook Een to bend over and prostitute him/herself on Korean TV.

We’ve got about a dozen Way Gook females doing the same in Misuda, in addition there are numerous less known whiteys doing their part in minor roles in other Korean TV shows.

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57 JW November 29, 2009 at 11:45 am

Seems like the over-reactors only want to focus on the part where diversity causes lack of civil and political participation. But what happens afterwards? If there is a void, someone or some group is bound to fill it in pursuit of their own interest, which, if it turns out to be in conflict with the interest of the politically asleep, *will* wake them up.

No? Seems like clockwork if you ask me.

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58 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 11:46 am

‘And there are millions of Asian muslims.’

perhaps, but there’s no place for muslims in korea.

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59 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 11:46 am

are you kidding?

I don’t remember which thread, but he did say that he liked you and that you were, unlike wjk, consistent when it comes to your bomb throwing.

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60 WangKon936 November 29, 2009 at 11:46 am

@ # 53,

TOK… I don’t claim to have any “insider” knowledge on wjk’s banning, but he really was becoming a big time distraction in my opinion. He was warned several times that he was off topic and really out of line, but he chose to ignore those warnings. When someone, anyone here, ignores generous warnings from the Marmot himself, there is very little choice in the matter.

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61 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 11:50 am

“Kaplan” is not my surname, and I’m not Jewish, racially or religiously.

I’m a white Christian, or rather I was raised Christian, but I’m not particularly religious. And I was fortunate enough to be the recipient of “elite educational opportunities,” not that that should matter much or have much bearing on what I say.

The first time I commented here, I happened to be reading this book and for whatever reason just chose the author’s name as a handle here. I just stuck with the name because it’s annoying to set up another one through Wordpress.

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62 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 11:57 am

@ WangKon

True, but unlike other commentators who died a quick death, he did go on for a very long time.

Besides, I remember when he was banned. He was going on with his business, some expats made some comments regarding his line of commenting, and bam the Marmot appears and bans him on the spot.

Kind of makes you wonder why the Marmot chose that particular moment when he had opportunities in the past to ban him.

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63 Sperwer November 29, 2009 at 11:57 am

it’s rare for me to call anybody a racist, sperwer. i just call ‘em like i see ‘em.

LOL. I can’t be bothered to cite chapter and verse (because I don’t pay enough attention to you to be able to), but in my recollection nearly every time a non-Koren makes even the slightest criticism of Korea, you play the race card in lieu of any substantive response – and in the remainder your tactic is to try to deflect criticism back onto the commenter’s nation of origin, rather than engaging in the reflection you accuse expats of not displaying.

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64 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 11:59 am

If you’re going to bring up Singapore, why don’t you point to things that they’re leaders have actually said?

In multiracial societies, you don’t vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion. Supposing I’d run their system here, Malays would vote for Muslims, Indians would vote for Indians, Chinese would vote for Chinese. I would have a constant clash in my Parliament which cannot be resolved because the Chinese majority would always overrule them. So I found a formula that changes that…
- Lee Kuan Yew

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65 WangKon936 November 29, 2009 at 12:02 pm

TOK,

I think things just added up and heaped on themselves. Truth be told, I was getting a little tired of him too.

But hey, immediately afterwards we get pawi to take his place as the krazy korean kommenter™!

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66 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 12:07 pm

“Diversity” = Divide and rule

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67 yuna November 29, 2009 at 12:09 pm

i will always miss wjk.

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68 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 12:10 pm

But hey, immediately afterwards we get pawi to take his place as the krazy korean kommenter™!

Which makes me wonder whether or not pawi and wjk are the same person. When pawi left he declared that he won’t comment again, and more or less kept his word. Then after wjk gets banned, pawi conveniently resurfaces. What timing!! That and there are differences in the commenting styles between this pawi and the previous pawi.

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69 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 12:11 pm

pay up or shut up, sperwer. i don’t use the race card often.

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70 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 12:13 pm

‘That and there are differences in the commenting styles between this pawi and the previous pawi.’

like what?

you’re making a fool of yourself accusing me of being wjk. robert knows.

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71 vince November 29, 2009 at 12:15 pm

wjk created interesting rhymes to accompany his hate rants. there are opportunities for him in the death metal music industry in japan I’m sure and that’s where he is now

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72 pawikirogii November 29, 2009 at 12:15 pm

ps you don’t believe i’m pawi? just look at my frikin gravatars. that should tell you right away. they’re the same gravatars i’ve always made.

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73 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 12:16 pm

i will always miss wjk

Which more or less proves that some Korean women have a thing for offbeat guys.

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74 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 12:22 pm

ps you don’t believe i’m pawi?

Sorry, besides the name, I just don’t think you’re the pawi of old, who used to go after those who were critical of Korea.

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75 vince November 29, 2009 at 12:26 pm

“I was fortunate enough to be the recipient of elite educational opportunities, not that that should matter much or have much bearing on what I say.”

Yes. I shouldn’t have bothered to ask.
Marmot should require an age limit for posters here.

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76 WangKon936 November 29, 2009 at 12:32 pm

@ # 71,

wjk is supposedly a resident at some hospital in Alabama. Hopefully, it’s near the Hyundai plant so he at least gets some exposure to the Korean bourgeois.

TOK,

Pawi and wjk appear to be very different people to me. Pawi is more of a traditional 40’s year old ajossei whereas wjk strikes me as an early 30-ish ajossei in training. Wjk, in particular, has a Bible thumping (hypocritical in my opinion) sub-theme, whereas Pawi does not.

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77 aaronm November 29, 2009 at 12:32 pm

Pawi, what about the thousands of Korean converts to Islam or even those fellas who converted because they took Indonesian Muslim wives? Never mind all those Pakistani, Indonesian and Bangladeshi laborers in Ansan.

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78 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 12:43 pm

Pawi and wjk appear to be very different people to me.

I believe you’re referring to the pawi of old. In which case, yes the commenting style was very different from that of wjk.

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79 mkaplan November 29, 2009 at 12:47 pm

You’re pathetic. Apart from incessantly asserting and repeating Leftist bromides championing “multiculturalism” and “diversity,” all you can do is cast aspersions on me and make ad hominem arguments against me, suggesting that I’m some sort of self-hating Jew, or that I’m a bitter academic failure, or that I’m immature or too young or something.

There are definitely some Korean hypocrites here, but I’m not sure if they have anything on you, who scurried off to live and work in one of the most homogeneous societies on earth while proclaiming how wonderful diversity and multiculturalism are every chance you get.

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80 Darth Babaganoosh November 29, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Additional info : Video shows a base jump off a bridge that resulted in the kid having his face split in half. Do not click if sqeaumish. You have been warned.

Did I ever mention I’m a big fan of Darwin? I see he has struck again.

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81 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 1:06 pm

“Video shows a base jump off a bridge that resulted in the kid having his face split in half. Do not click if sqeaumish. You have been warned.”

The link doesn’t work for me.. but did he died?

The pawi who’s been posting lately is definitely pawi.

The real question is, who the heck is theotherkorean? I take it, he’s not thekorean. he seems “new” yet he seems to know a lot about pawi who had stopped posting here a long time ago…

My how time flies.

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82 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 1:23 pm

“Did I ever mention I’m a big fan of Darwin”

I wish people would stop confusing the person Darwin for the natural process itself of change through selection and such. I get that it’s like “dish” in place of “food” but it’s getting annoying. Secondly, not sure why folks and scientists are such fans of Darwin, anyway. Is it politics? Is there a high academic quota of something which scientists need to meet? Every other science book this past decade seems to center around TOE. But I don’t get why that theory is such a great one. The central idea within it should be obvious to any naturalist, and, as theory, it’s not striking scientifically. Yet there’s been the constant stream of “praise be to Darwin” literature, and so that too is getting annoying. If I were a scientist, I’d make sure my research had nothing to do with TOE. It’s just time for better ideas.

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83 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 1:25 pm

Yeah, I’m not thekorean. And yes I’m “new” in commenting, of course that doesn’t mean that I haven’t been reading this blog for a while.

Interestingly you’re sure the pawi is “definitely pawi”? Makes me wonder…

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84 yuna November 29, 2009 at 1:32 pm

Secondly, not sure why folks and scientists are such fans of Darwin,

that’s because Newton or Galileo don’t get attacked by the bible bashers in quite the same way (anymore)

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85 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 1:33 pm

Now all we need is for the other kyopos to say that the pawi is “definitely pawi” and voila, food for the kyopo conspiracy theorist.

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86 WangKon936 November 29, 2009 at 1:38 pm

Yuna,

Newton was a bible thumper… hahahaha!

http://video.google.com/videop.....firefox-a#

… and Galileo was attacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

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87 yuna November 29, 2009 at 1:50 pm

newton was a sanctimonious twat (of a genius)
and i know galileo was attacked – that’s why i said “anymore”..

i was answering that a part of the reason why darwin is championed is because he (his theory) is attacked from the bible side..when there are plenty of things in the bible which could be negated by other scientists including Newton.

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88 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 1:51 pm

Yeah, I’m not thekorean. And yes I’m “new” in commenting, of course that doesn’t mean that I haven’t been reading this blog for a while.

You sure you’re new to posting? And couldn’t you choose a different handle? To piggyback off of someone else’s SN seems rather lame.

Interestingly you’re sure the pawi is “definitely pawi”? Makes me wonder

About?

I know that The Marmot’s Hole has been around for a long time… It’s, let’s say, a very luminous internet fixture. Those interested in Korean issues run into this blog eventually. I know I did before I signed up. On occasion, back then few and far between, I’d find links to various entries here, and I’d read some, not liking the sometimes-racist venom that spattered throughout its comments pages. I remember reading posts by “nora” and, later, all the stuff about her being a sockpuppet. In 2007, I signed up in response to V-Tech.

I’ve been posting a lot lately, more than I’d been posting in a year, and all of this, too, at about the time WJK was banned. I must be bored. I should stop posting.

Speaking of Nora, when Yuna first started posting here, I thought she was a Nora 2.0. She seems legit to me now.

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89 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 1:57 pm

To piggyback off of someone else’s SN seems rather lame.

And using the first seven letters of the alphabet isn’t lame?

About?

Oh I don’t know, that maybe you know more than you’re letting on. I mean WK even went to such pains to say that he had no “inside knowledge”.

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90 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 2:01 pm

“And using the first seven letters of the alphabet isn’t lame?”

You know you love it.

Truth be told, I chose the SN precisely because it’s lame. I was looking for something non-descript and was being deliberately lazy. But, lo, I am now… The Alphabet Man™!

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91 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 2:04 pm

Now, abcdefg, if you look at my comments, you will see that I hinted at the possibility that the pawi is not the pawi of old. I haven’t said that the pawi is definitely not pawi. In the near future, I may be proved wrong, but until that time I believe I’m entitled to my opinion.

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92 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 2:06 pm

You know you love it.

And I know you love my moniker. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be mentioning it out of the thousands that exist in this blog.

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93 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 2:07 pm

Nothing is going to prove you wrong. There is no science here, short of matching IPs. But here’s something I know: Pawi of old had a thing for gravatars. His recent series of gravatars all fall in same line of taste that I’d come to expect from him. Thus, I am sure- if intuition is anything to be sure of- that pawi is pawi.

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94 abcdefg November 29, 2009 at 2:08 pm

No, I don’t love it. It’s just a stupid moniker. Fine, my SN sucks too. But yours sucks more!

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95 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 2:14 pm

I’m Korean, and wanted to use the moniker “thekorean”, but thekorean was already using it. So, I settled on theotherkorean. Heck it’s a lot better than thekorean2.

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96 NetizenKim November 29, 2009 at 2:17 pm

What are you both 10 years old or something? What a supremely inane thing to be quarreling about.

You both suck equally. There…it’s settled.

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97 theotherkorean November 29, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Thank you for settling the issue, NK.

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98 hardyandtiny November 29, 2009 at 2:37 pm

The pollution sucks this weekend.

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99 NetizenKim November 29, 2009 at 2:58 pm

http://www.physorg.com/news178178601.html

November 23, 2009
A team of pioneering South Korean scientists have succeeded in producing the polymers used for everyday plastics through bioengineering, rather than through the use of fossil fuel based chemicals. This groundbreaking research, which may now allow for the production of environmentally conscious plastics, is published in two papers in the journal Biotechnology and Bioengineering to mark the journal’s 50th anniversary.

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100 Railwaycharm November 29, 2009 at 4:50 pm

Korea did well at the World Cup of Golf. Woods has his own problems…..

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101 iheartblueballs November 29, 2009 at 5:19 pm

I can’t decide which is better, this local news report or the first three comments about it on TC. Classic all the way around. I smell a Pulitzer.

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102 chiamattt November 29, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Undercover police shot up a car in Busan. I can’t find any news on this anywhere. Anyone know anything?

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103 Darth Babaganoosh November 29, 2009 at 8:06 pm

I wish people would stop confusing the person Darwin for the natural process itself of change through selection and such.

Oh, FFS. Fine.

Did I ever mention I was a fan of Darwinism?

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104 tbonetylr November 29, 2009 at 9:04 pm

Railwaycharm,
“Woods has his own problems…..”
What problems are those?
Is it the billion dollars he has/will have received?

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105 Sonagi November 29, 2009 at 10:15 pm

A team of pioneering South Korean scientists have succeeded in producing the polymers used for everyday plastics through bioengineering, rather than through the use of fossil fuel based chemicals. This groundbreaking research, which may now allow for the production of environmentally conscious plastics, is published in two papers in the journal Biotechnology and Bioengineering to mark the journal’s 50th anniversary.

Great news! Now I can feel a little better about the BPA , phthalates, and other endocrine disrupters leaching out from plastics and finding permanent homes in the bodies of living things.

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106 Sonagi November 29, 2009 at 10:16 pm

typo correction: disruptors

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107 NetizenKim November 29, 2009 at 10:30 pm

Great news! Now I can feel a little better about the BPA , phthalates, and other endocrine disrupters leaching out from plastics and finding permanent homes in the bodies of living things.

You mean like bottled water?

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108 Seth Gecko November 30, 2009 at 1:34 am

iheartblueballs November 29, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I can’t decide which is better, this local news report or the first three comments about it on TC. Classic all the way around. I smell a Pulitzer.

Thanks for that! I laughed my ass off at that news report :)
Btw, “Muslim Hitler” = classic.

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109 abcdefg November 30, 2009 at 4:02 am

I’m not sure about the movie “I Come With The Rain”. Having watched it without any preconception or summary about its plot, I’m lost. Is this movie like a modernized, Asian version of The Passion?

Anh Hung Tran (The Scent of a Green Papaya) is the director of the film and it stars Lee Byung Hun, Josh Hartnett, and Takuya Kimura.

The story and screenplay are not charged like a Hollywood thriller. It’s more of a decadent arthouse flick, paced slow.

Anyone seen it? I almost like it, but I’m more inclined to feel I wasted my time watching it. Presuming it’s a pro-Christian film, elements about it do more to magnify the goodness and beauty of its Christ figure than an overtly Christian film like The Passion does, which is not saying much. — Not a totally bad film.

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110 Nix November 30, 2009 at 4:48 am

http://www.google.com/hostedne.....Rc-V9jXEnA

Kim Jong-Un is looking increasingly like the next leader of BEST KOREA.

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111 Sonagi November 30, 2009 at 5:18 am

You mean like bottled water?

Or canned goods with white plastic liners.

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112 Acropolis7 November 30, 2009 at 5:21 am

# 81, yes him die.

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113 vince November 30, 2009 at 8:49 am

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/N.....300028.asp

Seoul City launches its official blog, “Seoul on Talk and Tag,” today as part of efforts to enhance communication with its citizens, officials said yesterday.

SOTT (sott.seoul.go.kr) is a “meta blog” that interconnects individual blog sites and enables viewers to see developments in each site registered on it at once.

It will help citizens conveniently search for information on transportation, culture and traffic and present their suggestions to enhance city administration.

They would love to receive posts from The Marmot community.

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114 WangKon936 November 30, 2009 at 9:19 am

@ # 21,

Regarding Ninja Assassin. Saw it this extended weekend. Waste of $25 (my ticket and my date’s) and 100 minutes of my life. NO story… ludicrous plot… silly dialogue… mixed in with buckets of CG blood!

Can still do $100M combined international box office because of Rain’s fans in Asia, but it’s still a turd of a movie.

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115 cmm November 30, 2009 at 9:39 am

“To piggyback off of someone else’s SN seems rather lame.”

So is changing one’s handle.

And, the “new” pawi is the same as the old pawi, sadly.

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116 pawikirogii November 30, 2009 at 10:04 am

today, we see the people of switzerland say ‘no’ to the muticulturalists and those who would seek to change the european nature of a european nation. thank oh mighty Allah for awakening white people to the very real possibilty of them losing thier homelands to those who wear rags on their heads.

wake up, korea! don’t let the agents of one world government persuade you to create a situation in which you have to say ‘no’ to those who don’t eat pork.

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117 NetizenKim November 30, 2009 at 10:07 am

#114

I agree. It was a mediocre movie. I can’t believe that this was the handiwork of the Wachowski Bros.

And I dont think pretty boy Rain is a good fit for ultra-violent martial arts roles. He really belongs in a cheesy romcom with Megan Fox. Her dialogue and acting abilities are compatible with Rain.

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118 cmm November 30, 2009 at 10:11 am

“Korea’s first iPhones sell like high-tech hotcakes”

http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....id=2913237

A line of people “more than a kilometer long” waiting for their iphones? You mean, the press might have been wrong about the likely failure of the iphone in the Korea?

Brendon, how is your life now that you have your new piece of “Apple sexy?”

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119 Sperwer November 30, 2009 at 10:33 am

pay up or shut up, sperwer. i don’t use the race card often.

LOL; I don’t have to; you’ve just confirmed that you are a proponent of racism, one of the most pernicious and despicable inventions of the human mind. Exactly how OFTEN you place the race card isn’t the point, and now I don;t have to waste any time picking through your commentarial garbage. Thanks.

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120 Brendon Carr November 30, 2009 at 10:46 am

Brendon, how is your life now that you have your new piece of “Apple sexy?”

It’s too soon to tell. More people are looking at me on the street, although I can’t tell if that’s due to the iPhone itself or due to my erection over finally getting one.

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121 pawikirogii November 30, 2009 at 10:54 am

i’m sorry, sperwer, i didn’t understand what you wrote; i had to barf.

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122 pawikirogii November 30, 2009 at 10:57 am

‘due to my erection’ jd

classy. just so classy. tsk, tsk, tsk…..

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123 cmm November 30, 2009 at 10:58 am

Yeah, that is pretty Apple sexy then.

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124 Acropolis7 November 30, 2009 at 12:56 pm

I know exactly where you can put that erection Brendon Carr. Wait, that didnt sound right…

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125 WangKon936 November 30, 2009 at 1:23 pm

I just got the new iPod Nano and it’s pretty sweet… but I will likely not got an iPhone just on principle alone. I’m currently looking at the Blackberry Storm 2.

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126 JW November 30, 2009 at 1:39 pm

“The Wisdom of the Smart Crowd”

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/c.....ial_report

Among the “Top 100 Global Thinkers” polled by FP, the majority preferred Blackberry over iPhone.

Suck on that, Brendon Carr.

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127 WangKon936 November 30, 2009 at 1:46 pm

But… Is Blackberry available in Korea?

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128 Brendon Carr November 30, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Blackberry is available in Korea. I like the Blackberry very much, and have used it in the past. It’s just that the other functions of the iPhone are currently ahead of the Blackberry — even the Blackberry Storm, which is a kick-ass product itself.

Competition, you see, is good. I look forward to great new products from both Apple and RIM. Who knows, having to compete with them here in Korea may spur Samsung or LG to finally produce that killer smartphone.

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129 WangKon936 November 30, 2009 at 2:08 pm

Competition, you see, is good. I look forward to great new products from both Apple and RIM. Who knows, having to compete with them here in Korea may spur Samsung or LG to finally produce that killer smartphone.

I agree.

I did mention over a year ago that Samsung and LG better upgrade their software and UI experience. They now better get their respective asses in gear.

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130 cmm November 30, 2009 at 3:20 pm

I like the Blackberry very much, and have used it in the past.

did it give you a boner?

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131 Brendon Carr November 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Unfortunately, no. To be frank, neither did the iPhone. I was speaking figuratively to an audience prone to literalism.

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132 mkaplan November 30, 2009 at 3:31 pm

Unfortunately, no. To be frank, neither did the iPhone.

There’s an app for that.

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133 iheartblueballs November 30, 2009 at 3:38 pm

I’d like to congratulate all iPhone owners on finally being able to send and receive an MMS. Welcome to 2002!

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134 Sperwer November 30, 2009 at 4:04 pm

gooseboy @ 121: Why am I not surprised that you would gag when fed back your own bullshit?

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135 Sperwer November 30, 2009 at 4:06 pm

Unfortunately, no. To be frank, neither did the iPhone.

There’s an app for that.

Is that the self-actuating metal tap measure attachment? I hear it’s great for getting your fun money up from the front row to the strippers on the runway.

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136 abcdefg November 30, 2009 at 4:49 pm

“So is changing one’s handle.”

What bastards would do this?

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137 gruentag December 1, 2009 at 5:41 am

Ok I know this isn’t a Hines Ward blog but he has been a person of interest. And it seems he’s played with postconcussion syndrome, so he thinks his QB should too. In other words, “I did it, so he should do it!”

http://tinyurl.com/yh499kx

Just don’t use an indoor fan to cool off after the game, guys.

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138 pawikirogii December 1, 2009 at 6:37 am

i can’t believe i missed this one:

‘Pawi and wjk appear to be very different people to me. Pawi is more of a traditional 40’s year old ajossei whereas wjk strikes me as an early 30-ish ajossei in training. Wjk, in particular, has a Bible thumping (hypocritical in my opinion) sub-theme, whereas Pawi does not.’ wangy

and just what the hell are you? i’d say an ass-kisser. what do you say? don’t fool yourself, wangy. you’re their target too. same goes for that arrogant ‘the korean.’

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139 Brian D December 1, 2009 at 6:54 am

gruentag, some people in Pittsburgh are upset that the QB practiced all week, then on Friday it was announced the 3rd-string guy would play. People seem upset with the coach for dragging out the decision.

I don’t get why they didn’t let Dixon run more, since that’s what he does. But I see he did learn one thing from his time on the bench: he learned how to throw a back-breaking interception, one of Roethlisberger’s specialties.

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140 thekorean December 1, 2009 at 7:02 am

I, as a Pac-10 booster*, was very happy to see Dixon play. And he played decently. Now if Rodgers can pass the damn ball a second earlier…

*does not apply to Stanfurd.

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141 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 7:22 am

I’m glad that our defense finally showed up and beat fUCLA…

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142 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 7:30 am

pawi,

Who’s ass I’m I kissing?

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143 DLBarch December 1, 2009 at 7:49 am

And yet, Cal is ranked over USC in the AP25. Boo-Yah!

DLB

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144 pawikirogii December 1, 2009 at 7:50 am

a couple weeks back, roboseyo used the tragedy of sampoong to score points against koreans. his implication was that koreans are not capable of building large buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcLgKFlrTl0

cry, robbie. cry.

ps you know who’s ass your kissin. anyway, you’ll be an ajoshi too. so will ‘the korean’. don’t fool yourself, wangy.

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145 Seth Gecko December 1, 2009 at 7:52 am

Why no new posts lately on this site?

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146 DLBarch December 1, 2009 at 8:04 am

Pawi,

I don’t think anyone really doubts the prowess of Korean construction companies any longer. Sampoong (and Seongsu-daegyo) demonstrated a problem with shoddy construction in Korea, but I think the concensus was that this was a problem of graft and corruption rather than competance.

I’d wager that within global construction circles, Korean firms are regarded as among the world’s best.

DLB

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147 pawikirogii December 1, 2009 at 9:13 am

dl barch, several companies pulled out of sampoong because the things that the owener wanted were deemed unsafe. the man shopped around. in any event, i thought it was unseemly of roboseyo to use such a traagedy to gain points against koreans.

btw, not all korean men are bad. have a good day, sir.

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148 vince December 1, 2009 at 9:15 am

@146 Yes, masters of value engineering for sure. Also masters of disposable construction designed to be torn down after a few decades. This move is guaranteed to keep the city state of the art and the construction firms earning money.

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149 Robert Koehler December 1, 2009 at 9:31 am

Why no new posts lately on this site?

Was busy on Monday.

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150 t_song December 1, 2009 at 9:36 am

BTW, for anyone who posted on the multi-cultural piece, why didn’t the article interview any of the children Hines Ward brought to Pittsburgh recently? Are they not counted as mixed Koreans b/c they’re not from SE Asian countries?

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151 Brian D December 1, 2009 at 10:06 am

t_song, I posted little on it and on Ward recently. You might be interested in reading the essays composed by the children who visited Ward in Pittsburgh:

http://news.steelers.com/article/113039/

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152 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 10:07 am

@ # 143,

Seven years of Pac-10 dominance and we beat Cal, fUCLA and Potatoville Catholic University this year. Considering all the talent we lost (both players and coaching staff), I’ll take it… ;)

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153 mkaplan December 1, 2009 at 10:13 am

What is “Potatoville Catholic University”?

Notre Dame?

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154 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 10:14 am

mkaplan,

Yes, if you insist… ;)

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155 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 10:17 am

One can say that it could refer to Georgetown as well… but USC Football rarely plays Big East schools unless it’s for the national championship.

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156 Robert Koehler December 1, 2009 at 10:31 am

One can say that it could refer to Georgetown as well

Hey, we’re located in DC, dude. Plenty of Catholics, but not a potato in sight.

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157 DLBarch December 1, 2009 at 10:38 am

Um, does Georgetown even have a football team…I mean one they’ll admit to? I think we played you in high school!

DLB

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158 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 10:40 am

@ # 156,

At least your mascot is not a leprechaun!

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159 cmm December 1, 2009 at 11:16 am

College sports… one of the reasons I’m happy to live in Korea.

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160 Sperwer December 1, 2009 at 11:58 am

College sports… one of the reasons I’m happy to live in Korea.

Yeah, but even here you can’t get away from puerile school “pride” chest thumping, apparently

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161 pawikirogii December 1, 2009 at 12:12 pm

‘@146 Yes, masters of value engineering for sure. Also masters of disposable construction designed to be torn down after a few decades. This move is guaranteed to keep the city state of the art and the construction firms earning money.’

you really hate koreans, don’t ya, vincie? you’re chinese, no?

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162 DLBarch December 1, 2009 at 12:30 pm

“Puerile school pride chest thumping?” Just wait until next spring’s “Barch madness.”

Go Bears!
DLB

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163 vince December 1, 2009 at 1:16 pm

@161, Pawi the race baiter

Actually, you seem to be the one who hates Koreans.
Why?
Because you don’t want to live in Korea and because you don’t want to be real and honest about who Koreans are and what makes Korean style. You just want to create a mythical Korea-world in your mind that no Korean actually inhabits, a Korea that fits your lonely ideology. Learn to love Korea for what it is rather than buying into the mythology you read from Naver or hear your Korean pastor say. You can’t criticize Korea because you don’t understand Korea.

And anyways, there’s nothing wrong with disposable construction. As long as the customer understands it’s part of the design…

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164 WangKon936 December 1, 2009 at 1:17 pm

DLB,

You went to Cal? Good education, ugly women. I feel for you man.

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165 dogbertt December 1, 2009 at 2:20 pm

I’m glad that our defense finally showed up and beat fUCLA…

Wow, so you beat UCLA in a ball-throwing spectacle. Big whoop.

You can never defeat UCLA in academics.

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166 thekorean December 1, 2009 at 2:45 pm

But Cal beats UCLA in academics and a ball-throwing spectacle.

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167 Arghaeri December 1, 2009 at 10:03 pm

“Yes, masters of value engineering for sure.”

Where on earth do you get that from. I sure as hell ain’t sure.

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168 dry December 2, 2009 at 12:19 am

#167: Even if meant in a joking or disparaging way, a masters of value engineering would be -very- impressive, truth be told, and the envy of many colleagues. Only top engineering schools would offer it…oh what a great idea.

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169 JW December 2, 2009 at 2:56 am

Oh wow. Dennis Mangan’s site got TOSed by google for talking too loudly about race differences. Naver won’t TOS AES but Google is willing to stick it to Mangan…I think I’m beginning to feel some effects of what they call cognitive dissonance…

http://mangans.blogspot.com/

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170 DLBarch December 2, 2009 at 3:54 am

WK,

An old Cal joke goes “9 out of 10 girls in California are pretty; the 10th goes to Cal.”

On the other hand, half of the student body is now Asian, so there are plenty of cuties around.

DLB

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171 WangKon936 December 2, 2009 at 4:31 am

@ # 165,

I dunno man… looks like a dead heat.

http://colleges.usnews.ranking.....ngs/page+2

According to the latest U.S. News and World Reports uni rankings UCLA is ranked 24th with a cumulative score of 73 and USC is ranked 26th with a cumulative of 72.

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172 WangKon936 December 2, 2009 at 4:32 am

Oh… and our endowment is 3x bigger than that community college in Westwood… ;)

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173 JW December 2, 2009 at 4:50 am

Holy shit, could it possibly be true that Tiger’s wife was beating the shit out of him with a 5-iron before he ran out in shorts and without any shoes on?

Friggin WHIPPED, man. Sorely disappointed in you Mr. Big time athlete. What would your green beret 출신 father think of all this?

http://www.slate.com/id/2236957/

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174 t_song December 2, 2009 at 4:58 am

Wow. Now THAT is interesting. Guess Tiger isn’t the only one in the Woods family who has skills wielding the golf clubs.

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175 JW December 2, 2009 at 4:59 am

Of course, nothing is certain. I just thought it was a bit — nay, very — hilarious trying to picture Elin wailing at Tiger with a golf stick. :)

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176 NetizenKim December 2, 2009 at 5:51 am

Man, who knew Scandinavian supermodels had such fiery temper?

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177 JW December 2, 2009 at 6:31 am

“Men’s rights groups, for their part, have already made the Woods case their cause célèbre, proof of their long-held, if unsubstantiated, view that women are just as likely to abuse as men.”

Men’s rights groups…fascinating.

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178 t_song December 2, 2009 at 6:45 am

Well, but it also seems logical. When the news first came out, I just assumed it was from alcohol. Then I thought he was leaving the house in a drunken rage. But now, that Tiger’s wife may have bullied him into jumping into his car and trying to flee as if he were John Cusack in 2012, is … well, sad.

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179 vince December 2, 2009 at 8:04 am

Re: An old Cal joke goes “9 out of 10 girls in California are pretty; the 10th goes to Cal.”

Obvious old man post. Jokes about educated women being “unpretty” is pre 1970s material in California.

Go Bears.

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180 cmm December 2, 2009 at 9:36 am

“So is changing one’s handle.”

What bastards would do this?

Very (un)clever Bastards like bluejives and nulji.

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181 cmm December 2, 2009 at 9:40 am

“ball-throwing spectacle”
good one.

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182 cmm December 2, 2009 at 9:42 am

Mizar, where have you been?

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183 dogbertt December 2, 2009 at 9:53 am

But Cal beats UCLA in academics and a ball-throwing spectacle.

Quite so! But since I have equal ties to both, I don’t play favorites between Bruins and Bears.

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184 WangKon936 December 2, 2009 at 9:54 am

well… same fight song and mascot… ;)

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185 dogbertt December 2, 2009 at 9:54 am

Oh… and our endowment is 3x bigger than that community college in Westwood… ;)

And with all that money, you’d think you’d be able to move your campus out of the ghetto ;)

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186 dogbertt December 2, 2009 at 9:55 am

“ball-throwing spectacle”
good one.

Thanks!

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187 WangKon936 December 2, 2009 at 10:35 am

@ # 185,

Hey, the Colosseum is only a hop, skip and a bullet dodge away…

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188 BKW December 2, 2009 at 11:52 am

“At This School, It’s Marijuana in Every Class”

NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....juana.html

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189 dogbertt December 2, 2009 at 2:36 pm

I dunno man… looks like a dead heat.

http://colleges.usnews.ranking…..ngs/page+2

According to the latest U.S. News and World Reports uni rankings UCLA is ranked 24th with a cumulative score of 73 and USC is ranked 26th with a cumulative of 72.

Fair point, and Cal’s not far above them.

The U.C. system has fallen on hard times since I was a student.

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190 yuna December 2, 2009 at 8:57 pm

On the subject of famous sportsmen, their private lives and product endorsement :
The Curse of Gilette! (did they have those “Gilette, the best a man can ge-eh-et commercial” in other countries too?)

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191 WangKon936 December 4, 2009 at 11:04 am

When your school is so freak’in white bread that you have to, ummm…. “photoshop” in some diversity.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cyoL.....ivator.jpg

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