Open Thread #126

by Robert Koehler on November 21, 2009

in Open Thread

Have fun. Unless it violates Article 4 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD).

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{ 139 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Nix November 21, 2009 at 10:41 am

Hackers target leading climate research unit
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci.....370282.stm
A bunch of hackers managed to grab a whole bunch of documents from some very important science research concerning global warming.

Good thing these are professional scientists, there’s no way you’d find blatent attempts to falsify data for funding, especially on such an important topic like global warming. They should have nothing to hide.

No wait, actually they did.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/n.....l-warming/

http://blogs.news.com.au/heral.....ey_hacked/

You can find the documents here:
http://thepiratebay.org/torren.....009.zip%29
or
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Clim....._1996-2009

Here’s a picture I took of a random email. It doesn’t get more plain as day that this is not science, but rather politics.
http://img263.imageshack.us/im.....efraud.png

One comment in the bbc report really made me laugh.
“There are passionate opinions on both sides of the climate debate and there will be people trying to knock down the other side,” Mr Cluley, senior technology consultant for Sophos, told BBC News.

“If they feel that they can gather inside information on what the other side is up to, then they may feel that is ammunition for their counterargument.”

Well shoot, here I thought science was supposed to be transparent to everybody, and subject to rigorous peer review. But I guess we can’t have other learn our dirty little secrets now can we?

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2 yuna November 21, 2009 at 10:57 am

i’m not sure about this
2MB. i hope you were not behind this.

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3 abcdefg November 21, 2009 at 11:05 am

Any of you car salesmen want to sell this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuBIyJsbCE

And here Palin is confusing Iran and Iraq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwmJY6oBH_g

I hope the bimbo is nominated.

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4 Granfalloon November 21, 2009 at 12:01 pm

Here’s a review of Sarah Palin’s recent foray into non-fiction literature:
http://whiskeyfire.typepad.com.....ading.html

Also, because I had a bad day yesterday, here’s something I watch when I feel blue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMIWtMIuLcQ

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5 jefferyhodges November 21, 2009 at 12:28 pm

Aw, give Palin a break, she wasn’t saying “Iraq,” she was saying “I rock!” Which is true! Palin rocks! If she’d said “Iran,” folks would have thought that she was saying “I ran” and merely referring to her vice-presidential run on the GOP ticket last year, which would be so yesterday of her. But Palin’s no yesterday girl! She’s the tomorrow girl today! Ever on the way here, but never quite all there.

Jeffery Hodges

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6 Brendon Carr November 21, 2009 at 12:50 pm

Suck it, haters. First-day sales were estimated to be 300,000, so boffo that publisher Simon & Schuster is upping the print run from 1.5 million to 2.5 million. Sarah Palin’s going to be earning about $10 million from this book; on to the next volume!

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7 jefferyhodges November 21, 2009 at 12:59 pm

Ten million! I didn’t hate her before, but I do now! I’m smarter than she is, and I write way better, but nobody’s offering me even one measly million!

Thanks, Brendon. I can now support my new-found animosity with legitimate grounds.

Jeffery Hodges

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8 Granfalloon November 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Thank you, counselor. Everyone knows that monetary success is the surest indication of a product’s intelligence and relevance. In other news, Transformers 2 wins the Best Picture Award, and Limp Biz’kit is named Artist of the Century.

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9 Mizar5 November 21, 2009 at 1:16 pm

How dare you Hodges! Still stinking this place up with your wit, I see.

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10 jefferyhodges November 21, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Stinking?! I’ll have you know my wit don’t stink!

Jeffery Hodges

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11 Mizar5 November 21, 2009 at 1:40 pm

“Badgers! We don’t need no stinkin badgers!”

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12 iheartblueballs November 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm

Palin has no political future to speak of, and anyone not thinking with their cock is aware of this. She’s got a profitable future as a circus sideshow though, peddling homespun bullshit and youbetchas to jesus freaks and horny lawyers having a midlife crisis. She, her lipstick, and her fuck-me-pumps will make millions on the lecture circuit as well, because the market for her particular brand of Joe six-pack anger at the liberal smartypants is significant, and she and her handlers know exactly what buttons to push (“It’s the lamestream media. Cause it’s LAME.”) to vacuum cash from the dupes and dittoheads.

If she were smart, she would have recognized in August 2008 that she was nowhere near ready for the national scrutiny and spotlight of a presidential campaign.

If she were smart, she would have turned McCain and his sinking ship that never had a chance in hell down, and then let it leak that she was asked but declined. The buzz would have slowly built around her, yet without the intense scrutiny, debates, Couric interviews, and other requirements that she couldn’t handle. She could have slowly emerged on the national scene at her own pace, all the while boning up on national issues so that when she did put herself out there, she would have been at least minimally prepared and not come across as a vacuous airhead. She’d have been perfectly positioned for a 2012 run with a clean slate and the ability to control her image and public perception.

But Palin’s not smart. She couldn’t recognize her own limitations, and so she took McCain’s offer and let her own ambition destroy any future she might have had. She allowed Tina Fey’s caricature to define her to the entire world, and she’s never going to recover from that first impression she broadcast as an angry, unintelligent, inexperienced buffoon. Her appeal is limited to hard-core conservatives, and she has absolutely zero chance of ever winning the middle of the country necessary to being a successful national politician.

All that being said, there’s nothing more I love than a good fucking car wreck, so I’m pulling like hell for her to be the GOP nominee! I may even volunteer for her campaign just for the comedic value.

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13 StevieBee November 21, 2009 at 3:21 pm

Blueballs – very eloquent tirade. However, I fear that you are forgetting one important fact: Middle America actually likes its leaders to be as thick as pigshit. It shows that they think with their heart.

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14 Arghaeri November 21, 2009 at 6:30 pm

#2 What’s wrong with it Yuna, you have a problem with chinese too?

And picking up the lost public holidays on weekend issue is great news.

Especially since the number of possible holidays has gone down in recent years.

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15 rmeurant November 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm

Not really on thread, but a pleasant experience today that suggests there may still be civilized life here – cycling at Ttuksom Resort down by the riverside, chanced upon a city promotion for cycling, distributing cycling maps of Seoul.. they admonished my wife for not wearing her helmet and rightly so – she doesn’t listen to my remonstrations… they had a mobile workshop, and unbidden took my wife’s tatty bike, oiled it, installed a new brake cable, refurbished and readjusted the other brake, and pumped up the tires on both bikes. All voluntarily. Astounding! Thanks, guys!

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16 craig November 21, 2009 at 10:00 pm

As a history hack, I thought this blog was wonderful:

http://gwulo.com It’s about Hong Kong.

It would be cool if Korea had a similar type blog.

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17 guitard November 21, 2009 at 10:58 pm

@iheartblueballs: You said, “But Palin’s not smart. She couldn’t recognize her own limitations, and so she took McCain’s offer and let her own ambition destroy any future she might have had.”

She’s not not be very politically astute, but she went from being a nobody governor to a multi-millionaire practically overnight. So obviously she was smart enough to work the system such that the financial security for her and the next few generations of her family are secure. She’s probably going to laughing all the way bank.

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18 r.rac November 21, 2009 at 11:15 pm

sorry brandon you lose again, 80% of those books were bought by conservative groups who are now giving them away if you subscribe to those sites. heck on the newspaper for wasilla’s website there were 2 ads for getting free copies of the book from 2 separate groups.

oh yeah and to equal on the gripe, bill clinton is a total sellout for not attending todays free clinic in little rock keith olbermann help find, saying he politicized it. shame on you bill for ass kissing that DINO blanche lincoln

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19 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 21, 2009 at 11:44 pm

Pooh, racial discrimination?
I find that Korean girls are passionately approaching to my south-eastern Asian friend to talk to him in English. Yes, English, I think it’s the main factor of their approach. His native language cannot be English, but they don’t pay attention to or don’t know about this fact. And they always say to him that they are not goot at English and feel sorry for it with humble smile. His major is not a competitive one and he came from a country in South-east Asia. He only have a master’s degree. The Korean girls who assert that they graduated uiversities in Seoul and majored some popular majors act like this. Racial discrimination? How will the Korean girls treat the real native English speakers? Oh, poor Korean boys who are discrimonted though I don’t like Korean boys for they don’t like me. 크하하하하.
※ I don’t stare at them with green eyes. I have black eyes.

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20 thekorean November 22, 2009 at 12:17 am

Craig, there is such blog: Old Photo of Korea blog

Unfortunately, it does not update very often.

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21 pawikirogii November 22, 2009 at 1:03 am

visa free for chinese? like flies to honey.

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22 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 22, 2009 at 2:30 am

에궁, 오타들. 수정도 안되고.

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23 baduk November 22, 2009 at 3:27 am

yuna and Pawi,

This Chinese visa thing could start many Korean language schools in China. You remember “Born in East LA” and how Cheech Marin made money in Mexico how to walk and talk like an American.

The same thing.

Some Chinese will learn how to say “Adjussi”,”Gaesakki”,”Molla” in perfect Korean intonation. Since they look like Koreans to begin with, if they can say a few words like native Koreans, they could live in Korea for years, doing menial labor or perpetrating crimes.

This could be a big problem.

It may even lead to de-facto subjugation of South Korea by the Chinese.

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24 baduk November 22, 2009 at 3:35 am

These Chinese will flock into Korea.

As soon as they arrive, they report to an underground Chinese gang headquarters. The gang will give them menial job assignment or hit assignment.

Korean police will not be able to control these gangs; they will bribe or kill family members, depending on the honesty of the policeman.

These gangs will be so powerful and police will choose to co-survive rather than fight, like Mafia situation in NY.

The Chinese gang can run with precision and start to eat up some industry, like Mafia in the US or Yakuza in Japan or Russian Mafia in Russia.

Soon, SK will be eaten up by these gangs. In some countries, these gangs actually control governments, like in Russia. In Japan, too?

The same situation will arise when two Koreas unite. The NK military officers will set up a big gang organization and control government. That is what happened in Russia.

Because of this, Korean unification can be the death sentence for most South Koreans.

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25 baduk November 22, 2009 at 3:37 am

에궁, 오타들. 수정도 안되고.

아가야, 그냥 쓰제끼라. 뭔 말이 만노.

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26 yuna November 22, 2009 at 8:41 am

#19 could you repeat in this in korean?
한국말로 다시 해 주삼.
포인트가 뭔지 이해가 안가네요.

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27 yuna November 22, 2009 at 8:42 am

repeat this in korean -curse of 오타

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28 abcdefg November 22, 2009 at 11:00 am

I predict nothing will happen in 2012, eschatologically. But I do see the end of another asinine doomsday meme by 2013.

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29 Nix November 22, 2009 at 11:19 am

But abcdefg, the Mayans didn’t make a calender that goes on forever and ever, CLEARLY IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING.

Yeah, I’m pretty tired of it too.

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30 Sperwer November 22, 2009 at 11:45 am

I-PHONE

NOVEMBER 28th

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....mMz.1f7ETM

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31 pawikirogii November 22, 2009 at 12:27 pm

‘I-PHONE’

aren’t you a bit old for an i phone? the screen is too small for your eyes. i’d suggest a netbook.

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32 Jim_Kim November 22, 2009 at 12:30 pm

Palin could be a MAD president, community leader, or possibly mayor, but president?? Certainly the Republicans can produce somethone better.

Question?
A lady friend of mine claims that the average Korean male in Seoul gets married with at least 150-200k in savings. That is, according to her, a lad with 100k in the bank would be deemed somewhat poor in Seoul and not ready for marriage. Do Koreans really have that much savings? Are their parents providing that much cash and housing? I failed to find stats.

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33 Brendon Carr November 22, 2009 at 12:36 pm

I myself am really looking forward to getting my iPhone. Our office, unfortunately, is uninterested in upgrading from Microsoft Exchange 2003 to 2007, so I have to finagle another solution to get push mail working.

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34 Mizar5 November 22, 2009 at 12:42 pm

So let’s see wjk, you’re both a racist and an ageist? Well, at least your not flipping out again, so it’s not all bad.

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35 pawikirogii November 22, 2009 at 12:43 pm

pawi’s cheers and jeers segment

1. cheers to naver for not giving in to a minority group that feels it deserves special rights. bravo!

2. jeers to atek for attempting to promote one world government. let’s hope the rok places them on surveillence for possible subversion to the korean folk.

3. cheers to sam raimi for including maoris in his nz productions.

4. jeers to the japanese for being such poor hosts to our first mixed race president.

5. cheers to ampotan for informing us that the japanese king should be called ‘pope’.

6. jeers to the chinese for just being chinese.

7. cheers to mizar for just being so fucking miserable.

8. cheers to the head of the aes for standing up to potential criminals!

9. jeers to ‘lost’ for being absoultely ridiculous. who the hell is going to believe an island with mountain ranges can’t be found?

10. cheers to jj abrams for making a star trek movie that was fun to watch.

11. cheers to koreans for making seouldout what he is today. he can’t get over you, korea. you did him good. seoulout asks: ‘who says love is beautiful?’ calling cho yong pil.

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36 pawikirogii November 22, 2009 at 12:46 pm

15 mins after you get your i-phone, you won’t be able to live w/o it. wonderful!

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37 Mizar5 November 22, 2009 at 12:57 pm

Misery is in the eye of the beholder, wjk. I see you clearly for the Buddha that you are!

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38 Sperwer November 22, 2009 at 1:05 pm

aren’t you a bit old for an i phone? the screen is too small for your eyes. i’d suggest a netbook.

I didn’t say I was going to get one; one thing that comes with age is the realization that you really don’t need all the gadgets.

Anyway, I can still put on my 1,000 yard stare, so if you’d like to waddle out from behind (inside?) that dung heap you inhabit, I’d be happy to put you out of your misery with a 7.62x.51. Would you like the Nosler or std. issue? Then again, that’s probably overkill. For a common varmint, a good ole .223 fmj will do just fine. I hear the Jeju pigs are missing those ddong dinners they no longer get; we could fry up your carcass right, and I’ll bet they’d love it.

Come on, then, step out smartly and draw fire.

Yeah, I didn’t think so.

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39 Sperwer November 22, 2009 at 1:37 pm

I just saw one of the Hub’s latest exercises in branding – a TV commercial extolling Korean products, complete with white monkey actors “posing like egyptians” while they handle various appliances and the pompously sonorous overdubbed spiel of some faux-Brit/posh accented female announcer.

Christ, when are these morons going to figure out that it’s not about yourself loudly asserting over and over again that your products are “world-class”.

The only message that this sort of Babbitry communicates is that you don’t really believe it yourself.

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40 seouldout November 22, 2009 at 11:39 pm

World’s best doors. From Korea!

And the Seoul Times reports this disturbing story.

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41 seouldout November 22, 2009 at 11:40 pm

Korean door…world’s best.

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42 baduk November 23, 2009 at 1:17 am

abcdefg,
According to Biblical prophesies (followed by Christians for two thousand years)
1) Jewish people will come back to the Land of Israel (already happend)
2) The temple will be built in Jerusalem and cow sacrifice will commence. (5-10 years)
3) Europe will be united under one government(happening)
4) The anti-Christ will be the leader of the European union. (5-100?)
5) Then, the seven years of Tribulations will begin. Read about these in Revelations, the last book of the Bible.

The earth will be burned away and new Heaven and new Earth shall come and Jesus will be the center of the new Earth. All deads will rise again and be judged by Jesus.

I believe Jesus.

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43 pawikirogii November 23, 2009 at 1:29 am

more proof this country is going to shit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....2&_r=1

here’s a quote:

“No place in Mexico would have offered dialysis for free,” he said, sitting in the spare apartment he shares with his girlfriend and their 13-year-old son. “It was better to be here. I am really grateful that this is possible in this country, because if I were in my country I would already have died”

IT AIN’T FREE, PACO.

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44 Robin Hedge November 23, 2009 at 2:22 am

So as anticipated the new currency controls (loosely defined) have been imposed on the won. The regulations have helped push the won down briefly, and focus on forcing banks to purchase “safe” securities (read US sovereign debt) with 2% of their foreign exchange reserves, and also to cap forward “hedging” exporters can engage in to 125% of their inventories (I’m being loose with the details). These should gently bolster the won or slow its strengthening.
At the same time the moderate form of the regulations show, to me, a Korea which is growing away from its old import-substitution model, and has to look good in the face of free trade agreements, especially with the great EU octopus. Timing may play a role; Korea may want to be avoid the “currency manipulator” tag when FTA arguments are going on in the US Congress.

Overall seems like a smart move. The main purpose may be, as stated, to help ensure short-term dollar liquidity doesn’t dry up all of a sudden and suck Korea’s financial sector into a black hole. But the secondary effect of cooling won appreciation appears desirable.

In the Great Depression there were waves of competitive currency devaluations that served to further damage world trade and cooperation, and markets are looking for repeats or history’s “rhymes.”

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45 WeikuBoy November 23, 2009 at 3:16 am

Some people might be curious why, despite Obama’s and the Dems’ huge victory last year, they haven’t done anything.

A big reason has been the change in the U.S. Senate in 2006 regarding the filibuster. A filibuster is a minority party talking an issue to death — sending speaker after speaker to the podium to debate, and so prevent decisive votes from taking place. Conservatives e.g. used the filibuster in their unsuccessful attempts to stop civil rights legislation in the 1960’s.

The key point is that with 100 U.S. Senators, it takes 51 votes to win on most issues. But it takes 60 votes to cut off debate and stop a filibuster. So a filibuster is the minority party’s last-ditch weapon.

Until 2006, it was used very sparingly. When Dems merely considered using it to oppose a handful of Bush-Cheney’s worst judicial nominees, Republicans threatened to take away the right to filibuster forever. Yet when the Americans repudiated Bush-Cheney by putting Dems back in control of Congress in 2006 (and again in 2008 with Obama’s election) the Republicans began filibustering EVERYTHING. This has happened quietly, without comment from America’s worthless corporate media or even from Dems themselves. Indeed, not only have Dems failed to stop this abuse, they have facilitated it by no longer requiring Republicans to actually filibuster. In the old days Southern senators would have to take turns speaking ’round the clock, once famously reading a telephone book in order to coninue their “debate” against civil rights. Now they merely have to threaten to filibuster; and the Dems let them get away with it.

From 1785 or whenever until 2006 it took 51 votes to win in the U.S. Senate. For the past three years, however, it has taken 60 votes. And the Senate itself is already America’s most anti-democratic (small “d”) institution, because each of the 50 states, from liberal California with 35 million people to conservative Wyoming with less than 500,000 people, gets the same number of senators: two.

This is a truly remarkable change. Yet no one is talking about it.

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46 WeikuBoy November 23, 2009 at 3:27 am

P.S.

“And the Senate itself is already America’s most anti-democratic (small “d”) institution, because each of the 50 states, from liberal California with 35 million people to conservative Wyoming with less than 500,000 people, gets the same number of senators: two.”

Thus, there are a LOT of senators representing insurance companies a few people in small, rural, conservative states, and only a few senators representing a lot of people in the large, more liberal states. And now the Dems — with their own tacit approval — need 60, not 51 votes, to pass anything. Including, but certainly not limited to, health care reform.

I should have added.

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47 jefferyhodges November 23, 2009 at 5:46 am

Seouldout #40, concerning that “disturbing story” . . . The Seoul Times is, apparently, the ‘victim’ of a hoax. See Ethical Martini on this point.

I say “‘victim’ of a hoax,” but “‘victim’ of its own sloppy journalism” is more to the point since a simple Google search turned up the evidence that this story is a hoax.

Jeffery Hodges

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48 DLBarch November 23, 2009 at 7:48 am

Regarding the Palin book, I am kickin’ back with a vanilla latte in the Borders shop in Palo Alto and am on page 78 of “Going Rogue.” Let’s just say that this is a deliciously awful book, even by the generally low standards of the genre.

On the other hand, you gotta love any country where someone can go so far with so little talent. The Brits had The Spice Girls, Korea had The Wonder Girls, and the U.S. has Palin. The comparison is apt: Palin is now more of a celebrity than anything else, but she’ll keep the disaffected middle-aged white guy demographic hot and bothered for another year or so. Then, like a mid-life crisis, the moment will pass.

Truly God’s gift to the Democratic Party, though. As for me, I’ll keep my powder dry until the GOP returns to its senses.

DLB

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49 yuna November 23, 2009 at 7:49 am

here’s hoping that this is another hoax (somehow i am not so sure):
people killed for human fat in peru

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50 jefferyhodges November 23, 2009 at 8:03 am

Yuna, if human fat is so valuable, then America could be the world’s biggest supplier — we have the largest supply of this natural resource, and it’s renewable!

Now if we could just refine it into engine fuel . . .

Jeffery Hodges

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51 yuna November 23, 2009 at 8:09 am

LOL. jefferyhodges.
gruesome, but somehow makes sense.

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52 yuna November 23, 2009 at 8:10 am

Korea had The Wonder Girls

spice girls : i really really really wanna zigazig – ah
wonder girls : tetetetete tell me…
palin: ?

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53 dogbertt November 23, 2009 at 8:16 am

more proof this country is going to shit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11…..2&_r=1

here’s a quote:

“No place in Mexico would have offered dialysis for free,” he said, sitting in the spare apartment he shares with his girlfriend and their 13-year-old son. “It was better to be here. I am really grateful that this is possible in this country, because if I were in my country I would already have died”

The country’s going to shit because it has too many humanitarians?

IT AIN’T FREE, PACO.

Right, and Chul-soo never games the system, nosiree bob.

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54 jefferyhodges November 23, 2009 at 8:21 am

Spice Girls : I really really really wanna zigazig — ah
Wonder Girls : Tetetetete tell me . . .
Palin: You betcha, you betcha, you b-b-b-b-betcha!

Jeffery Hodges

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55 jefferyhodges November 23, 2009 at 8:23 am

Or is it: “I bitcha, I bitcha, I b-b-b-b-bitcha.”

Or so I hear she does in ‘her’ recent book.

Jeffery Hodges

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56 yuna November 23, 2009 at 8:23 am

palin and 허경영 should form a group – theirs styles might be quite good together.

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57 abcdefg November 23, 2009 at 10:39 am

“The earth will be burned away and new Heaven and new Earth shall come and Jesus will be the center of the new Earth. All deads will rise again and be judged by Jesus.”

Speaking of stupid doomsday memes, the earliest Christians, including Paul, believed that Jesus was coming back within their generation. What happened there? So Paul was baduk about 2000 years ago. – Dead Jews can’t judge.

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58 baduk November 23, 2009 at 1:18 pm

abcdefg,

Well, some Christians did and some didn’t. Paul’s epistles did not explicitly say that Jesus was coming back within their generation. If you have the verse, I like to have it.

Does this one item negate the entire Biblical promises? I do not think so.
1) Jesus came according to the prophesies that preceeded him.
2) He performed incredible miracles to show that he was the Son of Creator.
3) He was resurrected after the third day.
4) His followers have continued for two thousand years.

The whole thing is too powerful not to believe. If you are a sincere person, just ask Him in ernest prayer. He can listen to your prayer and answer you in most personal way.

He did to me.

You can do it right now.

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59 Mizar5 November 23, 2009 at 1:25 pm

It must be most reassuring to have a fairy tale to believe in…

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60 mkaplan November 23, 2009 at 1:30 pm

You speak from experience. You believe in “Progressivism” after all.

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61 Mizar5 November 23, 2009 at 1:34 pm

I assuredly “believe in” the lessons of history over thin ideological abstractions.

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62 mkaplan November 23, 2009 at 1:35 pm

Good one.

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63 Mizar5 November 23, 2009 at 1:39 pm

You too have grown a wit I see.

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64 mkaplan November 23, 2009 at 1:42 pm

I mean it. You’re a good bullshitter.

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65 Mizar5 November 23, 2009 at 1:44 pm

Thank you. A mixed compliment is certainly progress.

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66 abcdefg November 23, 2009 at 2:14 pm

@58,

Paul to his Church, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16:

“For the Lord (Jesus) himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (my bold)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....ssalonians

It’s in the Gospels too, for instance in Mathews 24:34:

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/pa.....ersion=KJV

Here’s a popular Christian writer writing about it:

“‘Say what you like,’ we shall be told by the skeptic, ‘the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, “this generation shall not pass away till all these things be done.” And He was wrong. he clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.’”

“It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible. yet how teasing, also, that within fourteen words of it should come the statement, ‘but of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.’ The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance grow side by side.”

- The above by C.S. Lewis who is admitting there’s a problem.

As for the rest of your meongcheongese:

“1) Jesus came according to the prophesies that preceeded him.
2) He performed incredible miracles to show that he was the Son of Creator.
3) He was resurrected after the third day.
4) His followers have continued for two thousand years.”

Baduk, tell me, how the fuck do you dress yourself and tie your own shoe laces? Items 2-4 are circular; namely, sure Jesus performed incredible miracles… IF you already believe the NT isn’t bullshit. Sure, Jesus resurrected after the third day… IF the gospels aren’t bullshit. Sure, Christianity has existed for thousands of years… because Christians are idiots. As for your first assertion, any religion can retro-fit any thing to conform to, or “fulfill,” any prophecy. This is fallacious after-the-fact bullshitting. You praise it because you’re a moron who is too easily overcome by text as remarkably erroneous as the Bible.

It’s possible to feel earnestly passionate about a false religion, and indeed people do for all religions, the Christians for the Bible, for “inviting Jesus into the heart” and the Muslims for the Quran, and so on. Just goes to show how empty it is.

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67 mkaplan November 23, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Which religion is more false, Christianity or Progressivism? Should we even distinguish between the two, since Progressivism is just a variant of Christianity with some alterations here and there?

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68 Nix November 23, 2009 at 3:35 pm

@WeikuBoy
The US has a republic, not a democracy, for good reason.

Democracy seems to be a sacred word nowdays, but to be frank, real democracy is bad. It’s glorified mob rule.

Each state having two senators protects smaller states from the demands of the more populous states. It keeps people in cities who know nothing about farming from telling farmers how to run their farms.

@dogbertt
Spending others people’s money and money that just doesn’t exist is not humanitarianism. It’s plain irresponsible.

But hey, other people do it, so it must be okay right? I’m disappointed in you, you should know better than to use that argument.

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69 hardyandtiny November 23, 2009 at 5:46 pm

what’s not a miracle?

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70 paulhewson November 24, 2009 at 12:23 am

Just checking out the new password.

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71 baduk November 24, 2009 at 1:46 am

abcdefg,

Well, you seem to know your stuff. However, I am sure there are books and people to refute your arguments.

It basically comes down to if Jesus is true or not. And, we cannot figure it out with certainty.

So, you do your best.

As for me, I have gone through some strong experiences as many in history have and as the result very convinced that He exists.

Apostle Paul was like you in that he was very sure that Christians were stupid and wrong, till he met the Lord on the road to Damascus. I pray that you meet the Lord as well.

Only God can make it happen.

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72 baduk November 24, 2009 at 1:57 am

And, when you hear about the Jewish people start building the Temple in the city of Jerusalem, and start sacrificing heifers, then you realize at least some of prophesies in the Bible are coming true.

By the time the seven year Tribulation starts, it may be too late.

Not all religions are the same. Many like to equate Christianity with Islam. If a man meets two passionate women in his life time and hurt by one, can that man automatically assume the other women is a hussy? Each woman is different and each religion is different. This gross classification and dismissal is so illogical. Many Koreans use this logic for all foreigners.

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73 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 3:31 am

FYI,

The high yen is not just helping the Koreans at the expense of the Japanese. It’s also helping some U.S. companies…

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....u70bm9zvsc

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74 tbonetylr November 24, 2009 at 5:29 am

Each minute it gets better, enjoy this SNL Obama Jintao Press Conference skit…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxYSduRES1o

Talk about free speech, this we’d NEVER see in S. Korea.

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75 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 24, 2009 at 6:52 am

Thd girls in each case didn’t care about me who at those time was a companion of his and drived me out and talked with him. One girl tried to get his phone number in the presence of her fiance. When he hurled jealous eyes to them in the distance, she shouted “너도 이리 와서 영어로 대화해 봐.” She did ask not to join them but to talk with him in English. One girl who asserted that she’s in the master course did not know the English word “philosophy” nor what “degree” or “grade” means. I hesitated but at last explained those words to her in Korean , she deridingly retorted “많이 알아서 좋겠네요.” But anyway I watched that she succeeded in grabbing a promise with him.
I am not any romantic relationship with him and have no jealosy to her. I just just watched and analysed.
I thought in my mind “Wow, she’s the girl who appears in.. (ehe.. like this) http://www.google.co.kr/search.....f&sa=2
They acted like this to a man from Southeastern Asia who can speak English. How will they do if he’s a white from USA or UK or etc.?

The girls were so armed with pride and confidence to ignore me accompanying him. What gave the girls the confidence and pride and even made the girls ignore me? I find that the only superior thing the girls have is tht they are much skinnier than me. Ok, I’ll go skinny, too. Let’s see in 2 months. Give me cheers. 캬캬캬.-_-;

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76 yuna November 24, 2009 at 6:56 am

#75? what ARE you talking about? type in KOREAN please! 한국말로 쳐 주삼?

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77 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 24, 2009 at 7:03 am

Ok, so, anti-English spectrum is the only vent for Korean-male-losers. You know these Korean proㅍerbs:
Tread on a worm and it will turn(지렁이도 밟으면 꿈틀한다).; A mouse, driven into the corner, will bite a cat(쥐도 궁지에 몰리면 고양이를 문다.). Members of AES are all losers of Korea. I said about girls, but most Korean males are also active in befriend native English speakers.

So, when you English teachers feel lonely or tired, just go to AES site and watch the earthworms struggling and shouting and and giggle out. It’s one good way of utilizing AES.

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78 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 24, 2009 at 7:07 am

Oh, gosh. “Ok” at # 77 is not said to yuna.

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79 yuna November 24, 2009 at 7:14 am

그러니까, 한국 여자들 가운데 백인 아니더라도 영어에 *환장* (excuse my french) 한 여자들이 많으니, 백인이였으면 오죽하겠냐는 포인트인감?
그리고 anti-esl 도 사실은 원어민이랑 친구하고 싶은 루저 아자씨들이 운영하는 것이라는게 포인트인감?
톼-악 터놓고 한국말로 함 얘기해보게나.
그리고 더 이쁜 사진 없는감?

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80 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 24, 2009 at 7:29 am

Wow, here you see a typical Korean woman who mentions my appearance which I don’t care and has much pride in her English ability as a woman among white males in this site and got it to the contrary what I wrote to the 2nd paragraph of #79. No time..

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81 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 7:34 am

Are we witnessing TMH’s first cat fight…???

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82 JW November 24, 2009 at 7:38 am

has much pride in her English ability as a woman among white males in this site

난 백인남자 아닌데요… 여태까지 유나씨 꼬실려고 얼마나 노력했는데…이렇게 처참하게 무시당하다니…흑흑

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83 yuna November 24, 2009 at 7:39 am

but you were the first person to mention your appearance :

The girls were so armed with pride and confidence to ignore me accompanying him. What gave the girls the confidence and pride and even made the girls ignore me? I find that the only superior thing the girls have is tht they are much skinnier than me. Ok, I’ll go skinny, too. Let’s see in 2 months. Give me cheers. 캬캬캬.-_-;

it seems like you have a problem with your own image so i was just asking.
and you don’t help the expats case with your points such as that the korean men don’t like you and they are losers.
i asked you if you didn’t have a better photo…sorry if that was offensive. i think it’s nice to have nice photos on.

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84 thekorean November 24, 2009 at 7:45 am

sorry if that was offensive. i think it’s nice to have nice photos on.

BAM! Apology-backbiting combo! That’s cold-blooded.

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85 JW November 24, 2009 at 7:48 am

난 그래도 유나씨 팬이에요

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86 yuna November 24, 2009 at 7:50 am

just saying – it might be the photo that is not doing her justice..
if one is going to put a photo of oneself, why not put on a nice one?

my brother once told me that even a fart smells sweeter from a pretty girl.
i don’t think it’s a unique korean sentiment.

i think i am just digging myself a hole here. i will climb quietly into it.
JW, here is the spade, bury me in.

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87 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 7:57 am

Yuna,

Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to comment about a gal’s photo when your not offering one up yourself for consumption (and counter-comment) yourself?

;)

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88 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 7:58 am

Sorry… I typed yourself twice. Please ignore the last “yourself” in that sentence.

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89 yuna November 24, 2009 at 8:05 am

good one wangkon.
get one from sonagi first, i know you’ve been trying.

i look exactly like the chick in the photo -fluffy, yellow, and fits in your pocket, and argumentative in a 삐약삐약, bird-brained way

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90 NetizenKim November 24, 2009 at 8:09 am

#89

I thought your avatar was a subtle “Yellow Chick” double-entendre.

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91 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 8:11 am

Well, it’s better than an avatar reference to a “yellow cab.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y.....tereotype)

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92 NetizenKim November 24, 2009 at 8:26 am

#80
I don’t care and has much pride in her English ability as a woman among white males in this site

I don’t know about the white guys here but I feel like your comments are like a linguistic horror show.

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93 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 8:53 am

Me thinks ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ (or symetric giberish framed by flower-looking character thingies) transalates Korean to English on babelfish and then edits for clarity before she cuts and pastes into TMH. Like babelfish, I get the gist of what she’s saying, but it’s not to say that reading it is painful to one’s eyes and mind.

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94 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 8:57 am

Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to comment about a gal’s photo when your not offering one up yourself for consumption (and counter-comment) yourself?

If you want an idea of what Yuna looks like, do a Google image search for “Jang Mi-ran.”

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95 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 8:59 am

But she can’t fit in my pocket… :(

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96 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 9:05 am

Proportions.

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97 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 9:14 am

Oh, dude… that’s gross…

Can’t believe you can even imagine a fate like that for any of your fellow man…

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98 thekorean November 24, 2009 at 9:26 am

Now that I am engaged to an athletic 5′9″ chick who has an insane driver shot, I can comfortably say that Jang Mi-Ran can be charming at times.

But then again, I’m super easy. I also think Sandra Oh isn’t as ugly as people say she is. She’s underrated.

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99 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 9:33 am

Now that I am engaged to an athletic 5′9″ chick who has an insane driver shot, I can comfortably say that Jang Mi-Ran can be charming at times.

Her charm is her superhuman strength. And her habit of downing buckets of Budaejigae like Gatorade.

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100 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 9:34 am

But then again, I’m super easy. I also think Sandra Oh isn’t as ugly as people say she is. She’s underrated.

You’ve lost all credibility with this statement. You might as well never comment again. Nobody will take you seriously hereafter.

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101 WangKon936 November 24, 2009 at 10:13 am

I also think Sandra Oh isn’t as ugly as people say she is. She’s underrated.

TheKorean, when was the last time you went to an optometrist?

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102 Sonagi November 24, 2009 at 10:15 am

Ease up on ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿, folks. I find some of her posts a little hard to decipher, too, but it takes a lot of courage for a Korean not fully proficient in English to wade into a TMH comment thread.

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103 JW November 24, 2009 at 10:20 am

I agree with theKorean. 산다라 looks pretty damn good in these pics

http://images.google.com/image.....mp;start=0

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104 thekorean November 24, 2009 at 10:21 am

Her charm is her superhuman strength.

Yes indeed. There is definitely certain charm in a woman who can break your heart as well as your spine…

TheKorean, when was the last time you went to an optometrist?

I stand by my statement. But I will add that she looks better when she’s moving (i.e. on TV or in a movie) rather than on a photo. She adds a full point that way.

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105 pawikirogii November 24, 2009 at 10:27 am

‘Ease up on ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿, folks. I find some of her posts a little hard to decipher, too, but it takes a lot of courage for a Korean not fully proficient in English to wade into a TMH comment thread.’

agreed. let’s hope she stays.

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106 yuna November 24, 2009 at 10:33 am

TheKorean, when was the last time you went to an optometrist?

long term relationships to a cute but hare-brained, high-maintenance, good-for-nothing, selfish girls (like me) tend to bring out the appreciating eye in men for the inner beauties like 장미란. 장미란 is charming when you see her in commercials -e.g. S-Oil – her good nature shines through…. (though with sandra oh, i don’t quite feel the inner beauty, having seen the a few episodes of grays anatomy – she’s too horse-faced to pull off that bitch-with-a-heart character)

P.S. seriously, i apologize to ms.symbols – i must learn my manners.

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107 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 12:16 pm

But I will add that she looks better when she’s moving (i.e. on TV or in a movie) rather than on a photo.

Yes. Moving out of one’s field of vision, that is.

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108 jefferyhodges November 24, 2009 at 12:25 pm

I find Ms. ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ charming and hope that she sticks around. Not that I understand her, but charm comes from charisma, and like the inarticulate Mynheer Peeperkorn, Ms. ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ fascinates.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

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109 mkaplan November 24, 2009 at 12:31 pm

Does “✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿” stand for “Nonsensical jibberish”?

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110 abcdefg November 24, 2009 at 1:08 pm

✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿

– No, it’s Ms. Symbol’s attempt at Martha-Stewarting her SN.

I like it.

Or maybe it’s an ASCII rendition of her back/butt tattoo.

I still like it.

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111 cmm November 24, 2009 at 1:27 pm

yeah I thought tramp-stamp right off too.

Anyway, Ms. ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿’s has been here before, and I remember that I liked her then too. Besides, after being in Seoul for about 5 years, I’m tired of cute but hare-brained, high-maintenance, good-for-nothing, selfish girls.

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112 yuna November 24, 2009 at 1:36 pm

cute but hare-brained, high-maintenance, good-for-nothing, selfish girls.

btw, i forgot to add, i also have the annoying opppa ~ voice.

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113 yuna November 24, 2009 at 4:08 pm

this was just TOO funny…i had to share…


the korean version

and the original english version

the korean version has a photo of the poor old original henry vacuum cleaner for those who are not familiar with this brand. it’s usually used by the cleaning professionals but i had one at home back in london..

poor 앙리..and 헨리 the 청소기..

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114 cmm November 24, 2009 at 4:58 pm

can you say it very nasally with the annoying pulsating whine~~ at the end?

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115 cmm November 24, 2009 at 5:06 pm

Following Yuna’s link to the “Hand of Frog Gate,” this line stood out:

“In Ireland itself, angry fans clutching press reports of the game demonstrated outside the French Embassy.”

Glad to see Koreans aren’t the only one’s to protest retarded causes.

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116 cmm November 24, 2009 at 5:07 pm

oh, here’s the article:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/ho.....match.html

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117 tbonetylr November 24, 2009 at 5:47 pm

You Yee Haws got to be the most boring crowd around.

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118 Arghaeri November 24, 2009 at 10:22 pm

“Ease up on ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿, folks. I find some of her posts a little hard to decipher, too, but it takes a lot of courage for a Korean not fully proficient in English to wade into a TMH comment thread.’

agreed agreed.

I note it seems its korean ethnics who started the complaining…

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119 WeikuBoy November 24, 2009 at 10:45 pm

“In Ireland itself, angry fans clutching press reports of the game demonstrated outside the French Embassy.”

Of course, the real story is the soccer just absolutely totally sucks.
Now more than ever.

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120 DLBarch November 25, 2009 at 2:48 am

This is apropos of nothing, but maybe Sonagi or one of the Korean historians out there can help. Does anyone recall what the Korean equivalent of “中国者,中国人之中国” might have been? Maybe sometime around the period of the Tonghak Rebellion, give or take a decade.

Thanks in advance.

DLB

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121 NetizenKim November 25, 2009 at 8:59 am

I don’t know about anyone else but that airport scene in Modern Warfare 2 was rather fucked up and highly distasteful.

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122 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ November 30, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Let’s trace back to this thread.
You see one retarded Korean(maybe gyopo?) girl, who always sticks to this site and is doing nothing but spewing gibberish. And look at these Korean-gyopo males.They are trying to prove their being Lemmings as Wickham already said. We are watching and experiencing this renowned reputation as Korean trait. Here, who’s the leader lemming?
Korean gyopos, please do not debase Korea.

If I mention him, even as the form of curses, he’ll start masturbating. This is what I fear, but the man

#92 NetizenKim November 24, 2009 at 8:26 am
#80
I don’t care and has much pride in her English ability as a woman among white males in this site

cut my comment at his malicious will.

The original is

here you see a typical Korean woman who mentions my appearance which I don’t care and has much pride in her English ability as a woman among white males in this site and got it to the contrary what I wrote to the 2nd paragraph of #79. No time..

환장. Ok, good word. U see, http://www.google.co.kr/search.....0&sa=N

http://www.gesomoon.com/zboard.....mp;no=2130
Hilarious search-result.

Do not hurt Korean people’s ego if you are in Korea. They are all monsters of delusions of grandeur, who were marred by their parents. They get indoctrination to their huge ego during their growing-up period. When grown-ups, they experience cognitive disorders, too.

I love 白居易.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_Juyi#Works

They are notable for their relative accessibility: it is said that he would rewrite any part of a poem if one of his servants was unable to understand it.

Language is a means of communication and knowledge sources, and English should be, too. But in Korea, English is a means of the very racial discrimination. One is a can-speak-English- race; another is a cannot-speak-English race. It’s absurd you English speakers rant racial discrimination by Koreans. (Absurdly enough, can-speak-English gypos rant against these can-speak-English expats, too. Pooh.)
Really? By the few Korean losers? To what extent?
Whites are especially hailed by Koreans; Koreans boast some intimate connections with you whites. Don’t you feel it? Ah, I mean this is so if you are not an idiot. Who can boast of being a friend of a total idiot even though he/she is a white?

@ DLBarch
it’s not clear what you want.
I have no time. So, rough answer in advance before I hear from u.

Korean translation is “중국이란 중국인의 중국이다.”
Here http://www.donga.com/fbin/output?n=200809080013

“(다) 중국은 중국인의 중국이고, 중국의 정치는 중국인이 담당한다. 만주족을 몰아낸 뒤 우리 민족의 국가를 회복한다. 또한, 이제는 평민 혁명에 의해 국민 정부를 세운다.”

And helpful links,
http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/2·8_독립_선언

조선의 독립국임과 조선인의 자주민임을 선언

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuchang_Uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongmenghui

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123 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ December 3, 2009 at 3:16 am

Hey, is here anyone who knows Stanford, or has any ties with Stanford? This man only spat conspiracy. → http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/fastidio4/1248729
Many here can decode the Hangeul gatherings, I know.

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124 WangKon936 December 3, 2009 at 3:53 am

You see one retarded Korean(maybe gyopo?) girl, who always sticks to this site and is doing nothing but spewing gibberish.

Cat fights are always entertaining. Fake eye lashes and hair extensions everywhere… ;)

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125 DLBarch December 3, 2009 at 4:21 am

WK,

Yo, bro, Robert might be busy, but don’t you have posting rights here? How ’bout some fresh material?! I need my daily MH fix, and I need it bad!

And no cheating by posting some obscure goings on about France!

Cheers,
DLB

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126 WangKon936 December 3, 2009 at 5:06 am

I was busy writing this!

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/.....ent-354235

Actually, I’ve been pretty busy myself, trying to get a few things across the finish line by FYE.

I’ll throw a few things up soon… ;)

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127 DLBarch December 3, 2009 at 6:48 am

Wow! How did I miss that? Now you’re giving me homework by forcing me to respond! More to come….

DLB

PS. You’re not cribbing from your senior thesis, are you? Just checking. I don’t wanna be the only one coming up with fresh material!

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128 DLBarch December 3, 2009 at 6:53 am

In the meantime, some food for thought: why is it that doctrinaire neo-classical economists who love to espouse the virtues of free trade and rale against protectionism — in any form, even where it’s aim is to force greater openness in other countries — are inevitably TENURED professors?

DLB

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129 WangKon936 December 3, 2009 at 6:54 am

“You’re not cribbing from your senior thesis, are you?”

Hahahaha…. no. Notes from Econ 440!

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130 WangKon936 December 3, 2009 at 7:28 am

DLB,

That’s true in some respects, but there is at least one economist that was not an academic that was very much in favor of neo-classical economics and didn’t like protectionism- Alan Greenspan.

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131 DLBarch December 3, 2009 at 8:10 am

WK,

I dig your enthusiasm, bro, but do you really want to be hanging your argument on the likes of Alan Greenspan right now? Maybe you’ll be quoting Herbert Hoover next.

Just want to give you a sporting chance!

DLB

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132 DLBarch December 3, 2009 at 8:11 am

Oh, btw, what IS that avatar of yours? I can’t make it out!

DLB

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133 WangKon936 December 3, 2009 at 8:18 am

Soju Town. Sool jip in L.A. Koreatown.

http://franklinavenue.blogspot.....rious.html

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134 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ December 3, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Hmmm, Strange.
DLBarch cannot decode the apparent title “SOJU TOWN” of WK’s avatar, though he asked “中国者,中国人之中国” at # 120 comment.
I did answer uselessly.

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135 ✿⊹⊱⋛☃⋚⊰⊹✿ December 3, 2009 at 9:14 pm

Do not googling like this,
http://www.google.co.jp/search.....⊰⊹✿

I dealt with XAMPP, including logs and databases.

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136 DLBarch December 4, 2009 at 7:01 am

Nine Boxes – No, I saw the Soju Town sign…I just didn’t know where it was from. And thanks for your earlier effort.

WK – Ever been to 길목 in Koreatown? Not the one in Cerritos; the one off James Woods Blvd. Every time I’m sent to LA I make a point of dropping by that place for lunch. Not the friendliest of wait staff, for sure, but, man, I xouls eat there all day. Nothing like that in the Bay Area, that’s for sure!

DLB

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137 pawikirogii December 4, 2009 at 8:33 am

‘Nothing like that in the Bay Area, that’s for sure!’

perhaps you’ve never been to brothers’ bbq on geary. btw, for vietnamese, there’s a wonderful hole-in-the-wall on larkin or hyde near polk (right across from vietnam 2) it’s called them ky. wonderful.

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138 WangKon936 December 4, 2009 at 9:01 am

Links to the SF area… that’s pawi for sure. Now I have no doubts.

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139 WangKon936 December 4, 2009 at 9:08 am

DLB,

You know the strange this is, I’ve never gone to 길목 (Corner Place) in Koreatown. Every time I go it’s always crowded with a really long wait so I just end up going someplace else. They say Moo Dae Po is the new “it” KBBQ spot in Koreatown now. I’m gonna check it out with a few friends next week…

Oh, btw… you can’t expect great service at a Korea restaurant that caters mostly to Koreans. That’s why you have those buzzers at the tables!

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