Powerline Blog takes President Obama to task for bowing to world leaders, including, most recently, Emperor Akihito of Japan.
Personally, I don’t find President Obama bowing to be particularly offensive — I know he’s trying to show he appreciates the culture. Good on him for that: I haven’t read what the Japanese are saying about it, but I’m sure it went over well. Assuming he bows like that to Lee Myung-bak, I’m guessing it will play well here, too (caveat: this is NOT always the case). Whether, as the leader of what most people would agree is the senior partner in a bilateral alliance, he should be bowing is another issue.
UPDATE: At American Thinker, Thomas Lifson notes that Obama really could have used a crash course on Japanese bowing. He also links to photos of other world leaders greeting Emperor Akihito sans bow, including our very own President Lee Myung-bak.
{ 112 comments… read them below or add one }
I find your lack of faith disturbing…
What lack of faith?
Seems to me this backlash highlights that Obama’s call for better multicultural understanding from Americans is certainly on the mark. That Powerline post is whack. I won’t pretend to know the protocol for meeting a Japanese emperor, but I do know there’s a huge difference between bowing done out of obligation and bowing done out of choice. My dean bows to me: the older guy with the Ph.D. who oversees a university department bows to me, the guy who thinks he’s special cuz he has a master’s. Obviously he’s not showing deference: he’s just being polite.
Oh, and in honor of Fox News, we should stop calling it a “bow” and start calling it a “Socialist Killbabies Cower.”
your calling the king of japan ‘emperor’ is incorrect since his japanese title of ‘tenno’ does not mean ‘emperor’. please, for now on, refer to his majesty as ‘pope akihito’. that’s closer to ‘tenno’ than ‘emperor’ is.
just fyi.
Rob,
I’m channeling star wars.
I’m much more concerned about how Obama conducts business in the time outside of the 2 seconds that he is bowing or not bowing.
If Joe Sixpack’s pride hinges on the angle of the waist of the president of his country when greeting foreign heads of state, then Joe Sixpack is an idiot and/or asshole.
Anyway, Bill O’Reilly has something to talk to his idiot/asshole audience about.
At least Obama didn’t throw up on him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOnDatqENo
Big deal~!
The only people offended by this kind of thing are partisan hack douchebags, who make their living being professionally outraged regardless of issue, position, action, or inaction. They take the days’ events, throw them in a perpetual anger blender, and then serve up the daily bullshit shake to their armies of easily manipulated boobs, who not only swallow it without the least bit of skepticism, but are willing to pay for it to boot.
These are also the same assholes that would react to Obama curing cancer by blaming him for costing the nation’s chemotherapists their jobs. They’re about the least interesting, most predictable dupes in existence.
As someone generally on the lefter side of things these days, and generally disappointed with Mr Obama from a left-populist perspective, i’m with the conservatives on this. American presidents should not bow to any “monarchs” — WE especially should stand for a world without such medieval superstitious nonsense. I had thought that most all Americans above the level of subscribers to People Magazine were quite clear that anyone displaying pretensions to royalty ought to be regarded with derision and ridicule — perhaps treated with the bare minimum of diplomatic politeness in situations where doing so was crucial to the national interest. Apparently not.
A nod of the head while shaking hands towards the supposed ‘kings’ of Saudi, Thailand or Japan, or even Elizabeth II & brood, ought to be considered quite sufficient. When last spring Michelle Obama was accused of violating Royal protocol in touching “the Queen”, I also felt that the whole idea and supposed-scandal was ridiculous.
I have seen no evidence that Mr. Obama has bowed in front of presidents or prime ministers… at least not deeply… has anyone? If not, these very deep bows in front of outmoded pirate-lords are even more inappropriate. This has nothing to do with respecting foreign cultures that I can see, but is rather just a misplaced toadyism, that would only retard the aspirations of people of other nations for obtaining modern democracies.
I don’t think it’s an earth-shaker, but the Akihito bow-shake serves at yet another reminder to me and the rest of the world that America elected a glib and handsome dipshit whose narcissism prevents him from absorbing the advice of those in his coterie of advisors who know better. Or are we supposed to be comforted by the idea that there’s nobody in the US government anymore who does know better? Because I’m not.
Sanshinseon – It sounds as if you are interpreting the bow to the Japanese Emperor from a Western perspective – that bows are only given from subordinates to superiors. But in Japan and Korea the bowing is mutual. The Western press seems to equate Obama’s bow with Sir Gallahad bowing before the King of England. Did the Emperor bow back to Obama in return?
Now, if Obama is only providing one sided bows to royalty, but not engaging in reciprocal bowing with other heads of state – then it could mean that Obama interprets his act as a one sided show of deference to royalty, in which case I’d agree with you.
I know little about you except what you display on your website, but would I be incorrect in stating that you are currently making a career out of studying and selling “medieval superstitious nonsense?” Because for anyone above the level of People Magazine subscriber, mountain spirits and Shamanism quite clearly fall in that camp, along with the absurdity that is monarchism.
“…another reminder to me and the rest of the world that America elected a glib and handsome dipshit whose narcissism prevents him from absorbing the advice of those in his coterie of advisors who know better…”
Wow, you sure can read a lot in a fucking handshake/bow. You’re in the wrong field. You should be a fortune teller.
iheartblueballs @ #13
There speaks someone ignorant of the depth of shamanism and the traditional and profound symbolism of monarchy.
Perhaps you might like to peruse A.K. Coomaraswamy’s essay on Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power (if my memory serves me correctly), also Mircea Eliade’s authoritative work on Shamanism and its symbolism.
Of course you don’t, and neither did Drudge when he front-paged it, or Fox when it was “just asking questions” about it for the last 24 hours. It’s just another daily tremblor, which in large enough quantities serve their purpose of undermining the foundation without even requiring an earth-shaker.
And yet when President Bush had his “skinship” hand-holding orgy with Crown Prince Abdullah, that was yet another reminder of what? Oh yeah, a reminder of how much “friendship, respect, and trust” existed between the United States and the country that bore 15 of the 19 hijackers of 9/11.
Either that or they elected a glib and handsome dipshit whose own judgment prevents him from listening to the advice of partisan assholes who are so unprincipled and eager to construct a narrative of appeasement and failure, that they’ll twist themselves in hypocritical knots in order to characterize every decision he makes as traitorous and wrong regardless of which side it falls on.
obama bowing so deeply sent a messege that he was beneath pope akihito. he sent the wrong messege. his bow was creepy.
@ # 4,
I can’t check Chinese characters on this computer, but you might be on to something there…
…You could serve as a foreign policy adviser to the next Republican president. I hear they like fortune tellers.
“obama bowing so deeply sent a messege that he was beneath pope akihito. he sent the wrong messege. his bow was creepy.”
Still doesn’t beat Kennedy exclaiming at the Berlin Wall that he’s a sausage.
…or rather, a jelly doughnut.
There speaks a useful idiot willing to believe in anything and defer to anyone. A perfect mark for con-men, and a willing financial contributor to the building of useless palaces in the name of tradition and symbolism.
I appreciate your book recommendations, but reading Stanislav Kerouex’s The Temporal Powers of the Easter Bunny is also unlikely to convince me of buying a cart of woo-woo horseshit, so don’t feel as if you’ve been singled out.
(I know, he wasn’t speaking literally…It’s still funny nonetheless).
Re: #12 dokdoforever:
No, they are proportional to status — the inferior bows farther down to the superior than is reciprocated, how deeply each bows is according to their (perceived) relative status, including age, gender, job and others, with possible complicating factors such as one expressing gratitude or apology to the other, etc. I witness this every day as students bow to professors at various depths according to the circumstances, and usually the professors respond with little more than a perfunctory head-nod — arrogant seniors, maybe not even that.
I participate in this social-ritual to some limited and clumsy extent, just as most foreign Expats here do. As I understand it, the Japanese calibrate their relative depths of their bows to each other far more than Koreans or Chinese do/did… but have seen no hard research on that. Chinese seem to have mostly given up on the bowing business, if they ever were indeed into it as much as their northeastern cousins.
I’d be interested to know. All photos I’ve seen of this or the Saudi one do not indicate any bow-back; i haven’t seen complete videos, not *that* much interested. But it is a pertinent point; particularly if it was all arranged in advance by protocol officers, it would be seen differently; but I’m pretty sure these incidents weren’t.
Well, there we are. Has anyone seen any evidence that both of these were not entirely one-sided bows? I don’t regard it as any *major* betrayal of patriotic principles or scandal, as do the baying hounds of the right, but I do think it shows callow and unthinking, unseemly behavior unworthy of an American President. I wish he’d quit it.
Thanks for that update, Rob. Looks like the world’s leaders have a clue–very slight bow and a handshake. Meanwhile, Dumb and Dumber (i.e. wonder boy Biden) parade around the world acting like complete amateurs.
@18
Don’t bother, Pawi is wrong. Tennō (天皇) “heavenly emperor” underlines the Emperors supposed descent from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu-ōmikami. Furthermore, calling Japanese emperor as a king is even more wrong than claiming him to be “a pope” of anything.
Pawi, before you start to explain that the emperor is the high priest of Shintō, and that emperors used to be mere kings during the Yamato-period, I know all this. You are wrong.
iheartblueballs@#22
Well one out of two aint bad; and a damn sight better than the arrogance of believing in nothing and deferring to no-one.
Ironically…
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/trudeaus-pirouette/
WHO. GIVES. A. FUCK.UGH!?! Seriously, sometimes I wish we didn’t have all this instant info and saturation.
Quick, I think Sasha put pants (!!!!) onto her Barbie doll!!! ZOMFG!!!!
I’m starting to like Obama.
This is nothing.
After the Busan fire that killed 10 Japanese tourists, government officials from Lee Myung Bak appeared in front of the victims’ families and fell on their knees to apologize and beg forgiveness. Lee himself issued an apology and remarked how he was ashamed of the lack of safety awareness in Korea. It gave rise to more than a little raised eyebrow (especially by the fact that if the victims were Koreans or South East Asian migrant workers, the response probably would have been very different)
Speaking of racism(see below) Foreign policy mag has an article on Korea/Bus/racism/et al.
That bow wasn’t deep enough to express America’s profound apology for forcing Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor.
Here’s hoping Obama does better apologizing for America’s dividing the Korean peninsula and starting the (erroneously named) Korean War.
Let me start by saying this isn’t a big issue and there are certainly bigger things to be concerned about but…
Protocol for the President states that the President does not bow. Sounds pretty simple to me. It has been that way since George Washington and I’m pretty sure it had something to do with fighting a war of independence against a tyrant King (or so goes the propaganda of the time). Obama has bowed twice now. Does he not know the protocol that ALL other Presidents knew and followed , yes even Bush could do that, or is he changing the protocol unilaterally? Or is he just not thinking? Either way it isn’t good. He is either uninformed or doesn’t have the sense to think carefully before changing a protocol that is as old as the nation itself. Or he isn’t just going with the flow, and that’s never a good idea for a leader of a nation to do.
I also wonder how much this has to do with the state department or whoever is in charge of such things. Obama gave the British prime minister a gift of 25 DVD’s that didn’t even play in the European format. Not a smart move.
That Powerlines article is offensive, ridiculous tripe and I agree with Blueballs and the others. Maybe Obama should be rude to the Queen of England? It’s obvious that he’s not deferring to the
EmperorPope of Shinto (hehe poor Pawi sock puppet) but is simply displaying good manners.Brendon Carr is entirely and utterly off the mark (this is his loving buddy ex-Day4Night, reborn since the old account was mysteriously banned twice, for reasons never understood). Brendan loved W, and W made the US hated by both Koreas, managed to derail all progress with the North and practically hand them nukes, ruin Kim Dae Jung’s presidency and bully the world to such an extent that even Lee Kwan Yew was outraged by it, and he’s an (enlightened) authoritarian!
Meanwhile, from the Donga Ilbo:
Ooops, problem with the tags. Here’s the quote I meant to post from the today’s Dong-A:
“Analysts say the launch of the Obama administration has dramatically increased Korean affection for the U.S. Anti-American sentiment, which peaked with rallies against U.S. beef imports in spring last year, has significantly gone down.
In July, the Washington-based Pew Research Center surveyed 702 adults aged 18 and older in 25 countries, and found that 78 percent of Koreans sees the U.S. favorably, the third highest following Kenya, the birth country of Obama’s father, and Nigeria.”
Oops, sorry to pop up again but let me restate that I agree with Blueballs concerning the bow (I’d have been surprised if he didn’t bow), but I have no reason to put down the Shinto religion or anything like that, or call people assholes. So Blueballs can be a boor without me.
By the way, if you watch the video you see that Akihito did bow back, and the the whole thing was extremely brief. Maybe Barack he should have done it Cheney style, with a supercilious snarl and apparently bending *backwards.* Clinton bowed, Obama bowed, and thee important thing about it isn’t some deference to royalty, but respect for the other culture. Since Akihito is a major official symbol of Japanese culture and Obama respects Japan, he will of course bow when meeting Akihito. And let’s remember that Akihito is much older than the Prez. No one needs to be reminded that the “Emperor” is nothing but a celebrity and almost irrelevant compared to Obama himself. Indeed to remind people of that, the way Cheney did, would be rude and therefore bad for America, Asia and the world.
Perhaps George H.W. Bush should not have bowed to Hirohito’s casket?
Americans do not bow.
A fistbump would have been more appropriate.
“W made the US hated by both Koreas, managed to derail all progress with the North and practically hand them nukes, ruin Kim Dae Jung’s presidency”
Agree with you on the Obawa Emperor bow kerfuffle, but man, you’re recalling a radically different North Korean nuclear crisis than the one that actually happened.
my source for the pope thingy was ampotan. ampotan informs us that ‘tenno’ is closer to the word ‘pope’. since he’s one of the few westerners who understands japan, i’ll take his word for it.
as for your anger that i called the holy see of japan ‘king’, there isn’t anything wrong with that since that’s the way the pope is described in korea.
pawi,
Calling Japanese Emperor a Pope sounds ignorant of nuances in Japanese language. Japanese Catholics differentiate Pope and Emperor by calling them by different words. Pope = 敎皇, Emperor = 天皇. They never call or translate Emperor a Pope.
And please do not pretend to be a Korean. Many of your ideas sound like an English-speaker pretending to be a Korean. You sound so foreign, even though you claim you are Korean.
You must kneel before Zod!
@Slim 39
“Agree with you on the Obawa Emperor bow kerfuffle, but man, you’re recalling a radically different North Korean nuclear crisis than the one that actually happened.”
Wonder what you would say in response to this:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.kaplan.html
Seeing the photo versus watching the actual video footage shows how this has been blown way out of proportion.
‘Calling Japanese Emperor a Pope sounds ignorant of nuances in Japanese language. Japanese Catholics differentiate Pope and Emperor by calling them by different words. Pope = 敎皇, Emperor = 天皇. They never call or translate Emperor a Pope.’
i’ve already told you my source.
i just like to the exapts having to swallow that being het up over such thing is not of an excluuuuusive craaaazy nationalistic korean domain..
like to seee
i don’t like koreans who are anti-kdj but even harder to understand are the foreigners who are so anti-kdj. you would have thought such insistence on an objective viewpoint of the history comes into play with things like the Nazi death camp rather than some bloody mass candlelit vigil over some dead girls.
i meant insisting that subjective view is the objective one
The Kaplan piece is good as a complaint about Bush inaction, but it was written in 2004. We now know beyond a wisp of a doubt that North Korea never intended to keep the 1994 AF or any other follow-on nuclear agreements with the US and were cheating on the Clinton agreement as early as 1997, years before Bush. If you’re arguing that Bush should have bombed North Korea, I’m listening. But North Korea has out paid to all notions that diplomacy will work on that hard case. That must be why Obama is tightening the screws, using the financial measures that are best part of the Bush approach, while waiting on the diplomacy.
Neither did Pyongyang intend to deliver on the 6.15 North-South agreements once the money ran out and the North Koreans were the culprits in the DJ presidential failure. (Although it’s worth noting he will be remembered reasonably well for his handling of the financial crisis) It didn’t help that DJ’s sons all got busted in varios corruption.
Obama was first American leader to bow down on Japan’s ex-ruler’s grandson. That was mistake.
When is yuna going to get it through her(?) head that nobody really cares about her subjective judgements of expat nom dul. Somehow it really seems to irritate yuna that there are nonkorean nom who have a more objective viewpoint about Korean affairs than she and a sound understanding of the fact that KDJ was an awful president by almost every objective standard.
B nice Mizar…
I don’t want you to be casing away the sushi since we have way too much sausage in this blog.
Priceless. You can’t be serious. Let me straighten you out. You obviously don’t understand what a bow really represents in Asian culture and are citing outdated nonsense to further punctuate your ignorance.
Something everyone just knows, like the world being flat, right?
Lol.
Bottom Line: when a Republican president does it (ie. Nixon, 1971), it’s a not “news.” When a Democratic president does it, it’s humiliating!
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=5c8f4325f5d81345&q=hirohito%20source:life&prev=/images?q=hirohito+source:life&ndsp=12&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&start=12&um=1
“That’s the way fanatics in America are. They live by a double standard, embracing morality and principle for themselves, while denying it to the rest of the world.” Ray Hanania
I get your meaning WangKon. But when it comes to discussion, what matters is not what’s between someone’s legs but what’s between his/her ears.
The real news here is that there is suddenly some “unspoken protocol” that US presidents do not bow to foreign royalty – unless, of course, he’s a Republican, that is:
http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/11/dwight-d-eisenhower-bowing-hour.html
that is an oxymoron.
I dunno… my momma taught me to be extra nice to the ladies and I largely listen to her on that point. However, I haven’t had the, uh, privilege of marrying and living with one so perhaps my personal philosophy will change once that happens.
Mizar5, get a life!
Mizar5, sockpuppet koreansentry appears to be out of line, lashing out at the hand that moves him. I suggest he spend some time in the dirty clothes pile or bottom drawer for awhile as a means of “re-education.”
Okay, those updated links are kinda funny…
BUT… for the good of the country… let’s move on, okay?
In other news, American’s new overlor, uh I mean the Chinese, are showing some reservations on Obamacare…
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/11/16/china-questions-costs-of-us-healthcare-reform/
cmm, get a life. Aren’t you sockpuppet of cm?
Yeah, after comparing Obama with other world leaders and learning that the Emperor did not bow back at all – it looks as though Obama is trying way too hard to show the rest of the world how culturally sensitive he is – which backfires when he’s obviously ignorant about Japanese culture. Funny from a guy who in every other way is much more educated about the world than his predecessor. And, it sends out the wrong signal that we are too willing to accomodate other nations – to the point of embarassing ourselves.
I can look past this silliness – the Emperor is just a figurehead and the living symbol of Japan – so I can understand his intent. But kneeling to the Saudi King is beyond the pale. Please Barack – no more bowing.
The guy grew up in Hawaii surrounded by ethnic Japanese who knew nothing of the culture of their grandparents. Cut him some slack.
Bow deeper. Enough unilateral arrogance.
Koreansentry, get a brain.
Yuna, get a better dictionary. Look up oxymoron (who knew she? was such an obedient sock puppet.)
cmm, that I can still make them jump shows that they’re well in line.
Much too easy.
why are you so adamant that only your version is correct? for the number of letters that were sent from the koreans to the nobel committee saying that kdj should not get the prize there are also a whole slew of people both within and outside korea, koreans and non-koreans alike who think he was a great president. what i am stating is that i have not heard any expat opinion on this blog which actually agrees with this, and the only ones who have voiced their opinion does it in the most “there is only one version” manner.
it is extreme arrogance to claim that the on-going feud over obama as a president on this blog is any different by one of the partakers of the feud with such a low/non-relevant argument as “koreans vs non-korean objectivity”
It really shouldn’t matter, but it will get lots of media coverage because it’s full of political symbolism. It’s like Gerald Ford in the 1976 election trying to appeal to Latino voters by biting into a Tamale without taking the cover off.
the whole point of objective is that there is only one.
there are many subjective views.
don’t let me explain and your sock thing is getting rather old and smelly like yourself
anyway, mizar, i know that you were posting good stuff about me till i showed my disdain at you, so i guess your bitterness is just thwarted love, just like your relationship with korea.
so i don’t hold you responsible for your attitude towards me.
Wrong again, sir. There are many objective criteria behind a particular judgment and some will be contradictory. Arriving at a logical conclusion involves weighing them against one another.
The ad hominem nicely punctuated that point.
Thank you, my androgonous little hand puppet.
yeah but the weights are subjective.
seriously get a new idea for an insult.
it’s like listening to a stuck record.
Good bit of reification and projection, Yuna (you might want to look those big words up too, seeing as “objective” had you stumped.)
BTW, a real Korean would be more likely to point out that one cannot really love someone he has never met.
would have thought. your comments on me proved otherwise.
sorry mizar. i just don’t love you back.
Insult? See #74.
Truth hurts, but it doesn’t insult.
“eah but the weights are subjective.”
all the more reason that the criteria be objective. My god, I’m starting to talk like it…I think I feel a hand up my ass…
Ah, the idiot vagina pass.
“While any sane person understands the value of a good e-thrashing and the positive effects it can have on an impressionable young female, there are others who feel the Internet should be a kinder, gentler place. While I hate to make cliché generalizations about Internet users, this is likely because the closest they’ve ever come to sexual contact with a female was when they discovered lipstick worked well as hand decoration and lubricant. These, kind readers, are Internet White Knights.
To the Internet White Knight nothing is more enticing than the thought of a distressed female. If they remove the cause of the distress, they reason, they can then engage in sexual intercourse with the female in question. It doesn’t matter if one party is in New York and the other is in California: The Internet White Knight firmly believes he could trip, fall 3,000 horizontal miles, and land dick-first in a pile of chubby Internet pussy.
Rational people give shit to people who deserve it, Internet White Knights think people should be given an idiot pass by virtue of having a vagina.”
So, is it the content of her ideas or the contents of her knickers?
After looking at the pictures of other world leaders greeting, and then looking at Obama’s ridiculous bowing.. Obama looks like a complete dip shit. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
Ah, the idiot vagina pass.
at least i’ve got a vagina. what’s your excuse for this?
i’ll give my pass to you – looks like you need it more.
Yuna, at some point it becomes your fault for continuing to addressing them.
Thank you, seouldout – It is fascinating to observe the defensive wriggling of someone who gets called on pure bullshit.
In the final analysis, those who believe they can dish out their arrogance with impunity by hiding behind vaginas, personal insults and other irrelevencies are merely attempting to conceal an embarassing lack of substantive argument.
My controlled experiments never fail.
No, thekorean, her fault lies in continuing to consistently fail to address others with any degree of intellectual honesty. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Cm, good observation, and you’re right; his gesture was awkward. But fortunately he only looks like a dipshit to those regressive Americans who have it out for him anyway, a demonstratively ignorant minority.
I am in a magnanimous mood today, and will credit most people with some degree of intelligence, cultural sensitivity and human understanding, which helps explain why so few actually noticed this. Conversely, that Obama haters have had to resort to overturning such obscure rocks in search of anything they might find to use against Obama is a vindication of his stewardship so far.
Of course Obama’s bow to the Emperor looked bad. There really is no way you can positively spin this. The idea that this is similar to Nixon bowing to Hirohito is utterly absurd. First off, Nixon didn’t bow at 90 degrees from the waist like Obama did. He gave a slight bow of the head, still looking straight ahead at the emperor. Likewise the Emperor bowed to Nixon in turn. No heads of state who met the emperor acted in such a silly fashion they way Obama did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6fL7Y4BZA
The only thing more embarrassing than the president being a dumbass, is listening to even greater dumbasses defend everything he does desperately.
Give me a fucking break. The very same people who insist “It’s no big deal, nothing is the matter!” would have ripped on Bush for days had he done the very same thing.
When I first gained political consciousness just a few years ago, I thought that perhaps it was unique that everything Bush did with met with blind adoration as well as naked vitriol. I was wrong.
I now have growing suspicions that the American people lack any reasoning capabilities when it concerns something they don’t want to acknowledge.
Bottom Line: Obama should have been better briefed on Japanese bowing rituals. He could have watched Mr Baseball on the AF1 or something.
You may not be aware that in fact Bush the same thing – or something essentially similar in Saudi Arabia, Nix:
http://twitpic.com/pwwny
Objectively speaking, Bush deserved the vitrol, though, didn’t he with his needless spendthift war, violation of human rights and trashing the reputation of the US around the world. In comparison Obama has yet to make any serious mistake. But to be fair, he may be about to in Afghanistan, so give him some time, and you may yet have a legitimate criticism to offer – I’d support that.
Unfortunately, you’re generally right that “the American people lack any reasoning capabilities when it concerns something they don’t want to acknowledge.” I quote you because you expressed it so well. They are nearly as lemming as Koreans. All of which demonstates why it is better to have an actual thinking president in the White House.
Without naming names, Pres. Obama was indeed briefed on how to bow in greeting Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko, and if you watch the video rather than just the still photos, he pulled it off well enough.
We all might have spent (too) much time in Korea (and Japan) perfecting this crap, but Pres. Obama most certainly did not. He did fine.
DLB
Not to quote a neighborhood ajeossi as an expert, but one such ajeossi asked me as I was coming home last night why in the world my president would bow like that to the Japanese emperor. He was mildly perplexed by it all, to say the least.
I think Slim has it right — I know he meant well, and I’m sure most people understand that, but if he’s going to do something like that, he really shouldn’t be winging it.
Such reason explains how you pull off this blog, day after day, Robert. I could never pull such a thing off with such consistency and focus.
I reread your “About” link today – very humble. We don’t agree on various ideological issues, but ideology only goes so far. Without getting maudlin or bending over for you, you do deserve my gratitude. Your contribution is inestimable. Seriously.
Let’s face it: That same neighborhood ‘shi is also perplexed when his son buys a Toyota, when his daughter talks goes to a movie with a Japanese exchange student, or when his wife watches a Japanese drama. The reflexive insecurity/jealousy/obsession that goes on regarding any and all facets of the US/Japan relationship in comparison to the US/Korea relationship is a given, and therefore largely insignificant.
talksiheartblueballs. just swallow it there’s a good boy.
rjk, could i get you a sick bag? there is still some in it when i threw up after this before i showed my contempt for him soon after that and then it was all downhill pretty quickly.
‘Let’s face it: That same neighborhood ’shi is also perplexed when his son buys a Toyota, when his daughter talks goes to a movie with a Japanese exchange student, or when his wife watches a Japanese drama. The reflexive insecurity/jealousy/obsession that goes on regarding any and all facets of the US/Japan relationship in comparison to the US/Korea relationship is a given, and therefore largely insignificant.’
you really need to shut the fuc* up. why not go away for a year? bonfire that clan crap of yours.
You two incomprehensible dipshits make me long for wjk’s eloquence.
Didn’t wjk send you into hiding?
I think you mean “terrorist fist jab”.
Yeah, a westerner who “understands” Japan… why not try asking an honest to God nihonjin instead?
Bring back wjk, he feeds on bitterness and there seems to be quite a bit of that around here recently.
Anyway, while the reaction from the Japanese side has been pretty mum, from what I gather that kind of deep bow is considered a goofball move. However, this doesn’t affect his image or America’s as he’s really seen more for his charisma than as a thinker. If they’re fine with it, don’t see why the media over here should care as long as he’s leaving friendly impressions of America
You pick up sarcasm like a magnet picks up water.
You were being sarcastic? No shit Sherlock. Your sarcasm was so sublime and original I must have fell for it. Here I thought you were actually praising wjk’s eloquence. My bad.
You’ve proven to be a fantastic ankle-biter, and nothing more.
A hug but no Bow for Pres Lee: http://bit.ly/ChbuE
Mizar 5 wrote:
“Priceless. You can’t be serious. Let me straighten you out. You obviously don’t understand what a bow really represents in Asian culture and are citing outdated nonsense to further punctuate your ignorance.
Something everyone just knows, like the world being flat, right?
Lol.”
I’m not sure what your point is.
First, I am amazed that you pretend to know me. I’ve lived in Korea for 13 years, am married to a Korean woman and part of a Korean family in which I see every day. I live with my Korean mother and father in law for goodness sakes, I’m pretty sure I know what a bow means lol. But please do come down off your high horse and “straighten me out” about what a bow really represents in Asia, I’m very curious.
Second, knowing what a bow means in Asia has nothing to do with the argument. If you can’t see that simple fact, you are either not able to comprehend multiple posts about the article, or you were too busy looking past that in an attempt to score some kind of imagined political partisan points. Frankly I don’t know which is worse.
Bravo, nonkorean, you have addressed the points directly and responsively, which is precisely what was called for. 13 years and integration into Korean society constitutes a respectable argument that you are indeed intimately aware of the cultural differences.
While it may fall on deaf ears of a condescending Korean exceptionalist who would predicatably argue that a foreigner cannot possibly understand the intricacies of tge culture and language even despite the fact that he is fluent in all levels of the language and the culture, I find it a satisfactory.
“Of course Obama’s bow to the Emperor looked bad. There really is no way you can positively spin this.”
Impeachment?
@Slim #50
Oh, no doubt KJI & Co are a bunch of criminals. But Clinton had made real measurable progress and Powell sensibly wished to continue it. We might be much farther along in all this if W hadn’t sabotaged everything.
Then they said they wouldn’t talk to the North. Then they talked once they’d let the North get nukes. Then they patted themselves on the back for talking to the North. Not impressed.
I like KDJ btw, despite the corruption and bribes to the North.
Also I believe that the Sunshine Policy, why malformed in many ways, was a step in the right direction. Only integrating North Korea, or helping it open somehow, will work. Bombing the North is no solution; it would only be the bad result of political failure. Generally speaking, the more of the modern world that can make its way into North Korea the better. Engagement and contact lead to opening of societies. We shouldn’t play into KJI’s hand by helping his isolate the people.
Excuse the typos above; trying to cram in a response while I have the chance…
If you look at the video you can almost sense that the empress knew it was a faux pas and purposely held out her hand closer to her body so Obama wouldn’t have the space to bow so deeply.
If anything, the Japanese are superficially polite almost to a fault.
WangKon — not the right thread for this but might interest you:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/02eb696e-d4f3-11de-8ec4-00144feabdc0.html
Oh, dear! Looks like I called it after all:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091120/pl_afp/usjapandiplomacyroyalscustoms_20091120005649
DLB
Stop being so nice and so polite Obama. I almost miss Bush now.
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