Look who’s joining the party!
Starting in the fall semester next year, around 100 teachers from India will be teaching English at elementary, middle and high schools nationwide, a high-ranking official with the Education Ministry said yesterday.
If the trial program works up, the number of Indian teachers could be boosted to 300.
There are currently some 7,088 native-speaking assistant teachers from seven countries employed by the Ministry of Education… only 13% of whom have official teaching certificates.
At any rate, the Indian teachers might be better able to understand Asian cultures. Or so some seem to believe:
Park Jun-eon, a professor of English language and literature at Soongsil University, said competition for jobs will intensify if the Korean government brings in native speakers of English from Asian countries such as India and the Philippines who might better understand Asian cultures.
{ 67 comments… read them below or add one }
oh no…the accent!
i don’t know if it was salman rushdie who said it in one of his short stories, but someone said, that every single accent has been fashionable at one time in history, with the exception of the indian accent.
I thought the Indo-Canuckistani comedian Russell Peters said that.
Here’s to hoping they’re paid at competitive local rates.
Native speakers of English from India? From the Philippines? Speaking of understanding Asian cultures…
Oh and rather than whining about only 13% of English teachers having certificates, they could solve the problem easily enough– REQUIRE CERTIFICATES! (And pay accordingly.)
Plus what are the statistics on the mythological NATIVE-English speakers from India and the Philippines? How many of them have certificates?
As a side note, two of the countries I have had the worst communication problems in have been– ding dong ding!!!! India and the Philippines!
So is this to counter White ESL teachers from Canada, Australia, New Zealand and U.S.A? I’ve heard Indian/Filipino ESL teachers are cheaper to employ.
If Korea was really serious about learning English they would have hired 100,000 Indians a long time ago…
It would be cheaper too.
“Oh and rather than whining about only 13% of English teachers having certificates, they could solve the problem easily enough– REQUIRE CERTIFICATES! (And pay accordingly.)”
I don’t think that this would solve the problem since the demand for those with certificates would far outweigh the supply. I also don’t think teaching certificates are always necessary. Many teachers I know have their Bachelor’s in TEFL or English or even their Master’s in Applied Linguistics. If someone with one of those degrees can’t explain the fundamentals of English in their own language, I doubt having a certificate would do much good. I’d rather see a teacher training program than a demand for certificates.
In my limited experience with Indian people (admittedly only a few university teaching assistants and some restaurant workers), my one main impression has been that they are not ones to take a lot of BS, and they aren’t afraid to complain in a very direct manner. I have no real evidence for this, but it is just a feeling. Could be wrong.
So my big concern would be that if these people that are coming are qualified Indian teachers that they might not be too happy with being thrown in a class of all different level kids, half of whom are sleeping, the other half talking or writing on their desks, teaching from a crappy book and getting no help from the co-teacher reading her novel in the back of the room.
And I don’t think they would hide their displeasure. The benefit of unqualified western teachers is that they are willing to let shit slide, whether it be because they don’t want to rock the boat, they don’t see it as their place, or they realize they don’t have a better plan. Would real Indian teachers do the same?
(yes, I can anticipate someone saying that this post outlines exactly why Indian pros are a good idea- that they might shake stuff up. But does anybody at any school really want that? Would that be accepted? I don’t think so)
dww:
This is an excellent point, and it underscores what really irks me when Korean education officials go on about “certified” teachers:
1. Their own system, that they set up, and foreigners have absolutely no power to change, does not require certification. Yet they consistently bring up the lack of certified foreign teachers as if it’s some moral failing on the part of foreigners.
2. None of them are willing to define what kind of “certification” they want. Those online TEFL certs? The ones that aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on? Is that what they want? Or do they mean something like a state-certification from the home country? Because there are plenty of career ESL teachers with advanced degrees and years of experience who don’t have those, including most of the professors and published scholars with Ph.D.s who taught me how to teach ESL.
oh no…the accent!
Yoo knaow, ijuh punny, datjuh exacturee whatuh aiuh sinkuh huwen aiuh supeakuh too Koreanjuh.
yes but koreans aren’t going to english teach in india are they? wanker.
good thing you ain’t.
Ah crap…
“dww:
This is an excellent point, and it underscores what really irks me when Korean education officials go on about “certified” teachers:
1. Their own system, that they set up, and foreigners have absolutely no power to change, does not require certification. Yet they consistently bring up the lack of certified foreign teachers as if it’s some moral failing on the part of foreigners.
2. None of them are willing to define what kind of “certification” they want. Those online TEFL certs? The ones that aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on? Is that what they want? Or do they mean something like a state-certification from the home country? Because there are plenty of career ESL teachers with advanced degrees and years of experience who don’t have those, including most of the professors and published scholars with Ph.D.s who taught me how to teach ESL.”
EXACTLY what I was getting at, though it was 1 AM here when I wrote it, and I was half asleep.
#9, hopefully what you say is true. Kudos to them if they could shake things up. I think this is a great ideal in my opinion. One hundred at first, then it will become a flood later, if it’s successful. I wish good luck to the Indian teachers.
Yuna:
“yes but koreans aren’t going to english teach in india are they?”
-Not yet, although when the time comes to build a church in Rajasthan I am sure the Koreans will be there in droves. But Koreans certainly try to correct native speakers of English on their pronunciation of words in English while they are teaching in Korea. And to suggest to non-Americans that their brand of English is inferior to “American English,” whatever that term means. And to insist on using Korean modes of address and social interaction even when speaking English. And to insist on their particular usage of English in advertising and music. In fact, I think that Korea is developing its own strange little variety of English, just like India did. Isn’t it odd that it bothers you when Indians do it, but not when Koreans do?
“wanker.”
-Play nice.
“good thing you ain’t.”
-Good thing I ain’t what? Going to India to teach English? Not yet. Maybe later. What is your point? That I like to make fun of people’s accents? Isn’t that what you were doing? Good thing I ain’t teaching in Korea no more? Having dealt with the sneering superiority complex Koreans like you exhibit over Indians and every other race in the class for most of a decade, I realized it was time to call it a day. Good thing what?
‘sneering superiority complex Koreans like you exhibit over Indians and every other race in the class for most of a decade, I realized it was time to call it a day. ‘ angry expat #56,090
have you really called it a day? why are you here then?
folks, is this an example of an english teacher’s logic?
Lol, what a joke. My tech support people are barely coherent. I simply grunt into the phone as though I can understand a word the techie is saying. In reality, I might understand 1 in 10 phrases. Filipino tech support for my phone co. was responsible for a 3-week delay in setting me up after I moved. Infuriating little robots trained to say “sorry, I cannot help you.”
have you really called it a day? why are you here then?
-Yes, I have. Why are you here? Aren’t you in the US?
folks, is this an example of an english teacher’s logic?
-Absolutely. Teacher on hiatus, let’s put it that way.
‘Yes, I have. Why are you here? Aren’t you in the US?’
because i’m korean. again, why are you here when it so obvious you despise korea? you’re not there anymore and yet, you’re still there. why?
move on. get over it. don’t become a mizary.
#9, #15,
Yes, it would certainly shake things up to have Indians teaching in Korea. The Korean expectation is that because Indians are Asians, there would be fewer cultural conflicts with Korean instructors. Ironically, I think that westerners put up with a lot because we tend to tell ourselves, “Oh well, it’s their culture. Maybe I just don’t understand.” Indians on the other hand might be less willing to let Korean inefficiencies and incompetencies slide precisely because they do understand Korea better.
Another thing to consider. Indians are nearly all multilingual. If well educated they may speak English, Hindi, Bengali, Tamil, Marathi, Malayalam, and Punjabi. Considering this multilingualism, Indians tend not to be intimidated by learning Korean the way that “native speakers” are. Imagine then that these Indian teachers pick up Korean and develop the ability understand far more of what is going on around them than current EPIK instructors. Do you think that they will be willing to just sit idly by while they witness what passes for English education in Korea? Wouldn’t a serious educator who understands Korean schools be less willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
My admonition to those in the Ministry of Education can be summed up with two proverbs:
1. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
2. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.
Having said that, I think that having a few Indians around in Korean schools might be just what is needed to motivate overdue reform in English education.
Yeah but only a gormless twat yank cunt like Yuna wouldn’t possess the smarts to be able to decipher anything other than her native Valley Girl. Accents, pfft gimme a fuckin break, either you understand global English or you are a retard.
#22,
Please capitalize ‘Yank’ in the future – folks will know you’re serious then. Otherwise they’re going to look for something to pull….
And I like your posts – ‘gormless’ is an underused word.
Thought yuna was British educated.
because i’m korean.
I thought you were American.
She’s about as American as I am Korean.
mr. mao, if i remember correctly, you taught english in korea. the vitriol that you seemed to exhibit time after time for your (ex) korean students, as demonstrated by numerous previous post mark you out as a singular wanker, and i meant that it’s a good thing that you weren’t teaching anymore in korea (at least i hope so)..
mr indonesia, how would you say indian – english is global? koreans have bad accents because they tend to romanize what they hear into korean alphabets.
마이 네임 이즈 …i think it would be a disaster if they added that to the sing song indian accent they heard, certainly wouldn’t be global english..
and i can understand gormless twat cunt as an insult (although gormless and twat don’t apply to me, cunt maybe…)but valley girl? i did pass through LA numerous times.. but never lived in the western parts of the states…
actually it bothers me that the koreans do it too. so the mixture would not be pleasant, would it?
we don’t want to go down the road of india/singapore/the philippines etc etc.
just go with not speaking english than speak pidgin. why should everyone speak english? i think english education boom in korea is one of the most stupid and ill-planned ventures of all times – all it’s achieved is that it spawned a virulent anti-korean population of young adults with a 4 year degree who were after a joyful asian experience, leave the country harbouring enough hate to spew it regularly on korea-related blogs long after they’ve left.
I think it’s a great idea, the “accent” discussion is BS.
Also, these guys from India won’t take BS from the students. They will kick their asses, and that will be great.
yes, maybe for what the koreans want – “passing tests and teachers who will not take shit” it’s a good solution.
Soon the Korean kids will be spikking virry virry good English….
leguwan LOL.
Face it, this scheme is going to fail and fail hard. Everyone knows that (east) Asians want WHITE English teachers. The Indian English instructors are not even native speakers. Furthermore, it’s bad enough with whitey deflowering Korean maidens, do you think the public will stand for swarthy brown men doing it? They will be driven out in months, mark my words.
Not before they produce some Korean kids who talk like Apu, hopefully.
Just to chime in here–
As others have said, I think this is a great idea. It’s worth pointing out that the kind of educated Indians who speak English are mainly higher-caste, wealthy, and lighter-skinned. Regardless of the exceptions to the remnants of the caste structure in India, the influence of the British on education there means that the kind of Indians Korea will need are the type that expect a certain level of decorum.
I think the reason Westerners complain about Korea comes from a sense of fairness. It is the supposition that Westerners and Koreans are essentially equal. Therefore, it is worth complaining about problems here in Korea, if only due to this idea that if we complain long enough, we can convince Koreans to change some things.
Indians will not tolerate this. They will be more likely to see Koreans as their inferiors. I await with great pleasure the moment on a bus or in a classroom when a Korean-speaking, Korean-wife marrying Indian rips some gaping holes in the egos of bratty students and ajussis alike.
If by certain level of decorum you mean massive sense of racial entitlement engendered by being the at the top of their crummy caste pyramid, then yes. I know most of the commentators here are more familiar with Korea and Koreans and their quirks foibles and haven’t had the pleasure of regular interaction with Indians beyond the tangential. Trust me on this, however obnoxious you imagine Koreans can be, Indians are worse.
Here is sample requirement for Indian teachers.
http://bangalore.click.in/classified/jobs/education-teaching/1013785.html
As you can see, it’s far more stringent than a four year diploma on anything including basket weaving.
I can count the number of Indians with those types of qualifications who want to work in Korea on one hand. The number of Indians on the other hand who are willing to forge those types of qualifications to work in Korea is an entirely different story.
One of the stipulations of the FTA between India and Korea is that Korea allow a free movement of Indian labor into Korea, including English teachers. Look for more Indian English teachers to make a mark in Korea.
Looking around the internet, Indians working and living in Korea seem to be quite happy with their lives, on the surface at least anyway.
And of course, you know that this move by the Education Ministry is simply a bluff. It is politically tangential. On the positive side, I think what will happen is that they’ll use this as a wedge against regional hiring practices. On the negative side, it will suck to be Indian for a while and it will merely consolidate more power in the central government.
In the meantime, creating hostility between Indians and Koreans will only serve to reinforce the notion that free-trade agreements are free for Korea only. India won’t like that one bit. The court case in Korea involving the south-Asian merchant marine sailors (Inndian?) is another example.
Personally, I think that standing up for new Indian teacher recruits will help to increase Foreign English-teacher bargaining power here.
‘I thought you were American.’
well, here in america, you can be an american and a korean at the same time. you know, it’s a bit like marmot being white and american at the same time. see?
Another thing:
If well-educated Indians work on H1-B visas in the US, and then return to India to work and start their own companies,
AND if Koreans want to go to the US to attain a better education,
then what is the motivation for well-educated Indians to come to Korea to teach or work?
If the US can’t keep educated Indians from making a brain-drain in tech industries, then how could Korea keep Indian English teachers in Korea without some incentives?
‘all it’s achieved is that it spawned a virulent anti-korean population of young adults with a 4 year degree who were after a joyful asian experience, leave the country harbouring enough hate to spew it regularly on korea-related blogs long after they’ve left.’ yuna
mr mao, i’ve answered your questions but you haven’t answered mine. why are you still in korea when you are no longer in korea? do you come here to ridicule koreans so you can get back some of the dignity you feel you’ve lost?
doesn’t seem like a good plan. move on. get over it. wanna know why you need to walk out the door? because i, as a korean, couldn’t give a shit less what happened to you in korea.
only the strong can survive koreans. perhaps you forgot to eat a whole box of wheaties before going through that door.
‘Indians will not tolerate this. They will be more likely to see Koreans as their inferiors.’
ahahahahahahahahahaha
lol
ahahahahahaha no, please stop, i can’t breath!
aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha
lol.
‘It is the (western) supposition that Westerners and Koreans are essentially equal. ‘
ahahahahahahahahahaha
lol
ahahahahahaha no, please stop, i can’t breath!
aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha
lol.
I was a bit surprised by the level of english being tested on the college admission test in korea. Check it out below
http://user.chol.com/~tallow/100/sunung/3h050330su.htm
I think this is a spectacular idea for the following reasons:
1) Many, if not most, of the East Indians who come to Korea to teach English WILL be multi-lingual, therefore they will not sympathize with the students when the students complain about how difficult it is to learn Englishee
2) Since these new teachers will be coming from a country that underwent way more pain and agony for a much longer time during THEIR colonial period, they will have far less sympathy for their students and colleagues when they whine about Korea’s short colonial period.
3) These new teachers will bring a lot more “Color” to the human landscape here in Korea, something that is desperately needed
4) These new teachers will bring with them their religious restrictions, thereby saying “No” to a lot of the “But you MUST drink/eat this” intolerance shown by the Korean population
5) These teachers, many of them, will be single and will desire to date/marry the local men/women, bringing to an end, once and for all, the concept of “One race” in Korea
6) If enough of these teachers come, so will their local cuisine, and THAT has only positive benefits!
So, as far as I am concerned, I am thrilled by the idea that Korea will be diversifying the ESL population.
@pawi,
Laughing with me, or laughing at me?
you forgot :
7) it will also be good because there won’t be any white women among them whining about how their sons, husbands and grandfathers defended the koreans who are so ungrateful..
seriously, if people hate their jobs and students so much why do it?
it’s an affront to the teaching population… just go and sell cakes or something..
Okay Gillian, I’ll match ya!
1) Because many will be multilingual, they will be better teachers than monolingual people with a degree from Mississippi Polytechnic Hillbilly’s University.
2) Their experience with a negative colonial past will make them more appreciative of Korea’s trauma fulled history instead of being an insensitive ugly American and filled with a gross cultural superiority complex.
3) These teachers, by virtue of being cheaper than the typical Western import, will supplant them… so no real net change in ethnic genetic diversity.
4) True if they are all Muslim. Aren’t most Hindu?
5) See # 3.
6) Mr. Patel: Curry and rice? That sounds familiar…
pawi,
Some Indians are convinced that they are Asians…
http://www.indiansareasian.com/
‘These new teachers will bring with them their religious restrictions, thereby saying “No” to a lot of the “But you MUST drink/eat this” intolerance shown by the Korean population’
uh, nope. the koreans are just going to ignore them. i doubt many will be eating with them.
‘These new teachers will bring a lot more “Color” to the human landscape here in Korea, something that is desperately needed’
why? it’s just like i said, this is a plot.
ps speaking of plots, be sure to get your hands on ‘eternal empire’. it now has english subtitles. fantastic murder mystery set in the choson dynasty.
lots of eye candy with the architecure, clothing, and art in the background. asiaphiles will love this one. get it on the web. ask the google.
asia is a word manufactured by the west. while it’s true india is in asia, they aren’t asian in the traditional sense we have here in the west.
culturally and racially, indians do not have much in common with koreans. when i look at their culure, i don’t see any connection with ne asia. indians really have no business in korea.
korea better be careful here. don’t make the mistake of turning korea
into currea.
“indians really have no business in korea.”
do I?
LOL. You’re a one man wrecking crew pawi. I’ll give you that.
So what’s POSCO doing in Orissa?
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/posco-moving-out-of-orissa-mines-minister/503485/
Pawikirogi said “asia is a word manufactured by the west. while it’s true india is in asia, they aren’t asian in the traditional sense we have here in the west.”
You’re confusing “West” and “North America”. In Britain if the word “Asian” is used it will be assumed that you’re talking about Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. If you want to talk about E. Asia you usually use the country name eg. “Chinese”, “Japanese”..
Indians ARE the Asians where I come from.
pawi:
I am not looking for sympathy. I am merely trying to inject a little realism into this board that is not tempered by honkies in Korea who have to watch what they say because they still work for Koreans. Why do I come? I didn’t know there was a dress code.
yuna:
all it’s achieved is that it spawned a virulent anti-korean population of young adults with a 4 year degree who were after a joyful asian experience, leave the country harbouring enough hate to spew it regularly on korea-related blogs long after they’ve left.
Actually, it achieved more than that. Don’t forget the whole bunch of little half-Korean kids growing up in Nova Scotia.
Indians are Asians except where I come from where they’re actually Aboriginal-First Nations-Native Peoples of Canada. People from India are East Indians.
In fact, pawi, I wouldn’t be surprised if I lived in Korea a whole lot longer than some of your kyopo gang-banger pals in Little Korea so if you can become American and Korean I guess that makes me Korean, too. Nyah!
And people where I come from who look Chinese/Japanese/Korean usually just get called “Chinese.” Not Asian.
So you live in some godforsaken Canadian hick town? Must be boring. No wonder you’re still commenting on this blog.
Actually, I live in England. Can’t wait to get back to that godforsaken Canadian hick town in a couple of years, though. Clearly my priorities are all screwed up if I don’t want to live in one of Korea’s three largest concrete jungles: Seoul, Pusan and Los Angeles.
Gotta wonder how many of these Indian teachers will be told at the last minute that they have no jobs, like the last bunch of EPIK/SMOE teachers were?
Regarding the “are Indians ‘Asian’?” question, the sociologist Pyong Gap Min made some interesting points when he observed that the term “Asian-American” is “a political term used by Asian-American activists and enhanced by governmental treatment. In terms of culture, physical characteristics, and pre-migrant historical experiences, I have argued, South and East Asians do not have commonalities and as a result, they do not maintain close ties in terms friendship, intermarriage or sharing neighborhoods.”
In terms of pot smoking frequency… isn’t hashish legal in India?
Are you people that afraid of a little competition? I’m not.
And in response:
49 WangKon936 November 12, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Okay Gillian, I’ll match ya!
1) Because many will be multilingual, they will be better teachers than monolingual people with a degree from Mississippi Polytechnic Hillbilly’s University.
In fact, they very well could be. And that is a good thing.
2) Their experience with a negative colonial past will make them more appreciative of Korea’s trauma fulled history instead of being an insensitive ugly American and filled with a gross cultural superiority complex.
Korea’s trauma fulled (you mean “filled” right?) history? Oh PLEASE! Korea’s history is way less trauma filled than dozens and dozens of other countries.
3) These teachers, by virtue of being cheaper than the typical Western import, will supplant them… so no real net change in ethnic genetic diversity.
Perhaps they will work for less money. Should Korea be criticized for getting the biggest bang for their buck? And they will not TOTALLY SUPPANT the privileged white man/woman (as in my case), so yes, there will be an increase in genetic diversity.
4) True if they are all Muslim. Aren’t most Hindu?
And Hindu have not dietary restrictions, eh? And you actually went to school? Did you graduate?
Hindu
Most Hindus do not eat meat ( strict Hindus are vegetarians) and none eat beef since the cow is sacred to them.
http://www.butlersguild.com/index.php?subject=103
Gillian,
We agree on a few points and disagree on others.
re: # 2) I addressed that here: http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/04/20/so-i-take-it-you-dont-particularly-like-north-americans-then/#comment-221618
re: # 4) there doesn’t appear to be any Hindu restrictions to alcohol consumption…
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