I have no idea what I find more horrific — the article itself or the possibility that, as the headline might suggest, Washington might be listening to these guys.
Christ.
Read Joshua’s of OneFreeKorea’s response, as well as his initial criticism that got him singled out.
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Joshua may be better informed, but he is as nutty as Kathleen Wentz (author of the article). The topic of how to deal with North Korea is deep, but these folks can’t seem to work in the realm of logic and meaningful analysis.
Funny that I read this article right after having discussed with one of my North Korean students how folks in her old neighborhood sometimes ate “사람 고기”; and, how she herself partook of this dish–in her case that of a child–out of sheer hunger, while–as she noted–only the fat cats in Pyeongyang could eat 불고기.
Gee, no problem there.
Funny that she only had the fat cats in Pyeongyang to blame for this, nobody else–not the US, not S. Korea, not Japan.
Interesting.
Christine Ahn on the Virginia Tech shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y79MSBIGnNA
Per the article:
Uhh, “occupation” implies “control of” or the “act of possession”. The last time I looked, the U.S. does not own or control South Korea. Historically, America is best described as a sponsor rather than a landlord, just like Russia and China have more or less sponsored North Korea in the past.
This article’s author is obviously irresponsible and less than factual in her choice of words and conclusions though she is reasonable in stating that there is a lack of knowledge about Korea in America and that there is a need for less ideologically-driven rhetoric.
Per Mr. Stanton, I am just not sure working for “homeland security” is something to brag about though I enjoy reading his blog.
Who’s bragging? I never talk about my work and, for that matter, I’ve never made an issue of Christine Ahn’s private life. But aside from making an issue of my personal life, which is irrelevant to the story and also happens to be inaccurate, it falsely implies that I’ve somehow used government resources to investigate private citizens (a criminal offense). The article’s suggestion that I did is libel.
Sigh, what a one-sided article. In addition to producing the misleading statement that the US approved the release of troops to quell the Kwangju Uprising, goes as far as to imply that Reagan was responsible for Chun Doo Hwan’s pardon. The mention that the Kwangju was largely not covered by the US press was thrown in for good measure just to cook the case. The bald statement that Korea achieved democracy not because of but in spite of US intervention brings this pap to a level of sheer absurdity.
All those “facts” about bombs the US dropped on poor, innocent North Korea are taken out of the context of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of “Red” Chinese “Volunteers” and imply that we were just napalming peace-loving civilians. They ignore the atrocities committed by the communists in their drive south.
The skanky whore’s mom barks too loud, and she herself is guilty of suborning treason. Look it up, 18 USC Chapter 115…
If Christine Ahn is not a Nork agent, then she sure is a completely deluded nut case!
The problem, as with all the other Nork supporting Korean lefties, is that logic just never works with these people.
No matter what, the U.S. is always to blame as it is always doing bad.
Just like the party line up in Pyongyang- the U.S. is the scapegoat for everything.
Here’s where the abandoning of logic comes in: they criticize the U.S. for something, then when totally schooled on how it’s actually the fault of NK and Kim Jong-Il is an utterly evil nut case, then they make up some lame excuse that holds no water and end up with Koreans are always good and besides Korea always has ’special circumstances’, so we should just “understand”!
Gee, where have we heard that before?
Finally, when provided with clear evidence of wrongdoing by NK or even in SK, they will use the old fall back tactic of deflection:
“Well, the U.S. has serious problems with racism, poverty, exploitation, etc., so you have no right to criticize either Koreas”.
The last defense of the intellectually stunted when they have been proven to be full of sh*t!
As for the hyperbole of Ahn and her ilk actually getting serious attention, I would sincerely hope that it’s just BS whipped up by the author of the article.
Thanks to One Free Korea for trying to keep ‘em honest!
Forgot to add:
Her “logic” really slays me- the exploitative capitalist system of the U.S. is inherently evil. By simply opposing the U.S., that makes North Korea inherently good.
Priceless!
Mr. Stanton and Ms. Ahn are on two wides of the same coin. Korean policy? Why on earth does America need a Korean policy in the first place? Switzerland seems to get along fine without one.
Patrick J. Buchanan said* it best: “If the 60 million Koreans, North and South, were raptured up to heaven, how would America be imperiled?”
* in More Troops—or Less Empire)
The only reason for US troops in Asia and Europe is to stop them from killing each other. No major wars in Europe since WW2 and both the Korean and Vietnamese conflicts were the direct result of America looking like we were weak.
We just ignored the Muslim world until GW1 and we’re still trying to learn how to repeat our successes… Harder since the mere presence of Israel as a nation seems to drive some of them ;round the bend…
Mind you, I could be wrong; but the American Hegemony isn’t about conquest, it’s about commerce.
We don’t want colonies, we want commercial partners and customers.
We want everyone around to be rich so they can buy stuff from us!!
Apparently, that hasn’t sunk through the hemp-sodden gray cells of the
leftistsuseful idiots yet…More nonsense from the People’s Democratic Republic of Northern California. What else is new?
Having recently returned to the US from Seoul after a 7 month consulting engagement, I’m now hopelessly enamored with all things Korean and curiously intrigued with the North/South issue. The most valuable sources for the issue originate from outside the US – not surprising. Which also supports the article’s point about the US populace being essentially clueless on the issue. Again, not surprising, and something I’ve found as I attempt to educate people on the topic.
Being just left of center politically and cursed with seeing every shade of gray in an issue, I appreciate the discourse from all sides. The “Hole” has been invaluable in my education with all the links and opinions. Infotainment at the very least…
I don’t know about the lame PDRNC quip, but I’ve attended by fair share of academic conferences at Cal’s IEAS, Stanford’s Hoover Institute, Columbia, and UCLA, and I’d have to stay that, hand’s down, the worst apologists for North Korea are clueless kyopos who cannot seem to bring themselves to criticize anything Korean. It was enough to make even Bruce Cumings and Jung-en Woo blush.
DLB
And what are they?
I know, I know. I’ve tried to hold discussions with my fellow teachers in the staff lounge, but for some reason, these working moms would rather interact with their families rather than read a news story about the six party talks after finishing loading the dishwasher and wiping the kitchen counters. Clueless Americans!
A confession:
I’ve tuned out “news” on North v. South Korea pretty much since the time of Pueblo. I mean really, what’s the point? Nothing ever changes. The value, if any, of the new information is just too small to warrant the investment of my time or my concern. Sorry.
I believe my feelings are consistent with those of most Americans. And isn’t this, really, the point made by so many here at The Hole? That it’s futile to negotiate with (i.e., appease) the Kim Jong-Il clique – precisely because that regime never changes? (If it changes, it dies.)
Ditto Northern Ireland, and Israel v. Arabs.
Wake me up when war or peace is declared.
#14 exactly!
Blaming “clueless Americans” is another old standby.
I am simply amazed at how just as clueless many Koreans are about the whole issue and we live right next door to NK!
Any “scholar” who thinks the Korean people themselves are much more aware of all the facts and intricacies of the NK/SK issue had definitely better pull their head out of their a$$!
I’m no right winger by any stretch, but the Berkely-Oakland-SF area is well famous for producing “scholars” who completely devote themselves to the blame America first philosophy. This is an ideology that also includes the belief that if another country or dicator is behaving badly, then it is because the evil U.S. is keeping them down.
Complete and utter bullsh*t!
Christine Ahn= useful idiot!
Oops, I meant #15
Guess I must be “clueless”!
Rather, everyone wants to get rich selling stuff to us.
Funny, I’ve always thought exactly the same of you. You’re both humorless ideologues whose views are too rigid to deal with facts that completely undercut your views — or have you forgotten that Gulf of Tonkin post where I pointed out that you’d misread the evidence and ignored key facts to draw unfounded conclusions (and after which, you airbrushed the most glaring inaccuracies out of your post and deleted my comments pointing them out). By the way, is that post still up on your blog, or did that go down the memory hole?
I’m sure on some level you’d say you love your country; it’s just that, like Christine Ahn, you withhold your affection for it and inflexibly oppose everything it does because the vast majority of its voters choose not to govern it by your fringe views. In a democratic society, patriotism doesn’t demand the abandonment of your sincere and passionate beliefs, but it does demand that you afford some deference to the will of the majority, even as you strive to change its mind. Frankly, I’m not sure whether Christine Ahn’s vision of anarcho-syndicalist communes reengineering the global food distribution system scares me more than crypto-racists like Ron Paul or Lew Rockwell, or Pat Buchanan, who believes that Hitler was really just misunderstood (Buchanan’s title decries the loss of Britain’s “empire,” a concept he rails against in more tenuous contemporary contexts, using some of the same hyperbolic distortions as Ahn when she speaks of the U.S. “occupation” of South Korea). The GOP should have driven Paul and Buchanan out of the tent in the same way the Democrats should have driven en-klansman Robert Byrd out, but both of parties have the tendency to be full of shit when it comes to race.
Umm, hel-l0?
One more point of order here: since the first year of my tour with USFK, I’ve yielded to no one in my desire to have the entire ground component of USFK withdrawn on a short timetable. It’s militarily and politically counterproductive and a complete waste of U.S. taxpayer funds. I’m agnostic and persuadable on the air and naval components, given all the air and naval forces we have in Japan and elsewhere in the region. If it were up to me, Eighth U.S. Army would move to Ft. Lewis, leaving a weather station at Chejudo under the command of a Staff Sergeant.
“about the US populace being essentially clueless on the issue” — from a guy who claims to see every shade of grey! You overestimate yourself, and shouldn’t be trying to educate people on a complex isue after 7 monts in Seoul. Statr with spreading bibimbap love.
Mr Stanton,
As I wrote on your blog, I am very impressed with how you made short work of the (pick one) A) apologist by stupidity B) apologist by design Christine Ahn. Thanks for your work, I’ve admired your site for quite awhile.
“I’m sure on some level you’d say you love your country; it’s just that, like Christine Ahn, you withhold your affection for it and inflexibly oppose everything it does because the vast majority of its voters choose not to govern it by your fringe views.”
In the last election, the American voting public had a (realistic) choice between human rights abuses, secrecy and unending war vs. human rights abuses, secrecy and unending war. The will of the people prevailed and they chose human rights abuses, secrecy and unending war.
Huzzah for the American democratic system and the will of the people!
I’m not exactly in the same camp with Western Confucian for various reasons, but I see absolutely no dilemma between his patriotism and his opposition to U.S. government policy. It is an extremely hollow patriot who cannot tell the difference between the government and the country. If you think the country has been effectively hijacked for the interests of a minority, then in fact the only patriotic course available to you is to oppose the government.
Whoa, is this for real?
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/.....amp;page=3
From the comments to the article by yu gwan soon – November 6, 2009 @ 10:08 AM:
In september 2006, josh stanton testified before congress as someone who, in his own words, firsthand witnessed “a disturbing rise in violence against american servicemembers and installations [in south korea], and the korean government’s inadequate response to that violence.” in his testimony, he likened anti-american sentiment in south korea toward u.s. occupying forces to a “creeping” form of south korean “apartheid.” in case you might be confused, in this deeply flawed analogy, u.s. occupying forces in south korea = blacks in the south african apartheid system. in particular the subjection of u.s. servicemembers to south korean criminal law without the benefit of fortified extraterritorial protections, josh stanton argued, was akin to “justice” within the apartheid legal system for south african blacks. in his presentation to congress, josh stanton further showcased images from storefronts in taegu emblazoned with signs refusing service to u.s. soldiers (“no american military allowed”) and astonishingly compared these signs to anti-semitic slogans and stormtrooper violence against jews in nazi germany prior to the holocaust.
this, in a nutshell, is how far out there josh stanton is. for him, the u.s. army in south korea occupies the same position as blacks during apartheid.
Vince, Are you questioning the authenticity of those photographs, or are you just excusing what they represent? Now, I realize how much easier it is to distort and mischaracterize a statement you don’t link, but please try to be less transparently dishonest.
First, the statement referring to “a kind of unspoken, unenforced, yet palpable apartheid” is a direct quote from the Lonely Planet guide to Seoul in print at that time. I don’t know when you were in Seoul, but for a while, things had gotten bad enough so that if I was “way out there,” I had plenty of company. You may not remember or care about the signs in shop windows that banned Americans and soldiers in particular back in 2002 and 2003. More likely, you don’t care. In those times, no one knew if that trend was rising or receding.
Point of fact: the soldiers who had to put up with that weren’t there voluntarily on a contact with some hagwon.
In my own words, I referred to a “soft” apartheid, by which a person of ordinary intelligence would understand that it was NOT, in fact, comparable to the original Afrikaans. I have never said that the position of U.S. soldiers in South Korea was the same as that of blacks in South Africa (a place where I lived just as apartheid was being repealed). So please try to criticize my views without making stuff up.
The one thing I noticed about the East Bay Express defenders of Christine Ahn is that none of them addressed the substance of anything Joshua said. Yu Gwan Soon called for Joshua to be “outed” — when in fact Joshua makes no secret of who is and where he works. It WOULD be scary if Washington (or even Pyongyang) were listening to those folks.
Wow, tough crowd here….
@15
More specifically the majority of the current events links about North Korea come from regional (Korean) news web sites.
@21
Perhaps “educate” is the wrong word, since apparently I must have lived in Korea for years and years, and must have the North/South issue completely understood before I can begin to “educate” others.
Rather, I read as much as I can and share what I do learn via posts, email, and conversations. People appreciate the information.
BTW, bibimbap = comfort food…
@25 I guess the answer is “yes”.
Joshua, you don’t seem to understand my relationship to the comment. It is not mine, it’s something I found at the article. I included the link.
Your opinions (just like some of the East Bay lefties) are over the top… as is your paranoia. Good luck with the blog.
As more information comes out, I really believe that the idea that “Washington is listening to these people” is utterly ridiculous.
First, the paper (East Bay Express) and reporter seem to be quite supportive of useful idiot Ahn and her ilk, so they wish to promote them as a legitimate force. However, even the article states that these are “fringe” ideas.
With the Korean media, and Koreans in general, many times they will state or report things as fact, but they are really more of what they wish would happen or are trying to make happen- Korea: hub of Asia!
Ahn is Korean and it appears that the article’s author is also Korean.
Maybe they share their ethnicity’s penchent for hyperbolic self-promotion.
Next, this is the East Bay Express. Who the f*** are they?
Nobodies!
As for Ahn showing up on CNN, I think it’s just like most media experiences I have had. The producers are super busy- on tight deadlines- and don’t have time to check out the backgrounds of everyone or every story that gets put across their forum. I’m sure Ahn sees herself being put on CNN as a legitimizing force, but I’m sure the producers were in a hurry and said to just get somebody from a Korean group/thinktank to be a talking head.
Insane how she attributes all problems, disasters and evils to the policies of the American government. She even blamed the Virginia Tech massacre on American healthcare policy and how Koreans are victims of it!
Last, I simply can not believe that any policy makers in D.C. are actually giving any real platform to these apologist, Nork holocaust deniers.
We know that this administration has a drive to want everyone to like it.
To that end, there may be some in D.C. who are humoring this group of nutjob liars, but actually taking cues from them is a whole other thing that I just do not believe is happening.
I believe this whole story line from the EBE to be a bucket full o’ sh*t self-promotion for Ahn, the article writer, and the ridiculous EBE.
B74 is correct. The East Bay Express is a leftist rag, even by Bay Area standards, and even mainstream liberals don’t take it seriously. Its reporting on anything other than local politics (for which its old-school muckraking is acknowledged) should be taken with very many grains of salt.
DLB
Oh, that’s interesting because during the previous two administrations, there was very little reporting in the Korean domestic media about human rights or anything that might upset North Korea. Since Lee Myung-bak took office, the media have now taken off the rose-colored Sunshine glasses. The best and most original news stories about North Korea come from Japanese sources, IMHO.
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