“Ethnic civil war” due to foreigners flooding into Korea is one worry that Lee Sung-bok (bricklayer) worries about in Choe Sang-hun’s NYT piece on racism in South Korea (MH thread on the incident mentioned in this article is here). Considering such a comment, is there really any legitimate reason for Koreans to fear foreigner-sponsored crime or loss of jobs?
Ethnic Civil War in South Korea? . . .
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Loss of jobs? Well, much like many other countries, Korea’s progressed far enough to have no native takers for jobs that less than desirable.
This is the notion that Lee Sung-bok worries about in Choe Sang-hun’s NYT piece on the racial incident that occured, involving the Indian professor who was riding a bus in the company of a Korean woman (MH thread here), resulting in a civil action case.
I don’t mean to be nasty, but that’s a horrible first par: it’s actually physically painful trying to read it. Keep it simple.
Loss of jobs? Well, much like many other countries, Korea’s progressed far enough to have no native takers for jobs that less than desirable.
Natives will take “less than desirable” jobs if they’re paid enough.
You should be writing headlines for the National Enquirer; your take on the article is a gross exaggeration of its overall import; Lee is only quotes in the last line, and he’s a bricklayer. I’m no fan of Korea’s hyped claims of globalization, and the proof is in the pudding, but the position of the foreign ministry is more interesting and probative than Mr.Lee’s whine.
Hoju Saram, attempting to improve R.Elgin’s prose is a hopeless task. I wouldn’t even attempt “such.”
Here’s the link to the NYT story, BTW:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/world/asia/02race.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=asia
For the love of Christ, whiny dude with post-colonial hangups meets drunk racist ajeossi on a bus in Seoul and this makes the New York Times? You have to be fucking kidding me.
And to answer Elgin, yes, there is reason for concern — just look at France. Sure, Korea has a long way to go before things get to that point, but there’s not real reason to start down the path, either.
On a positive note, though, at least Choe waited until p 2 to give us Ms. Hahn’s “this wouldn’t have happened if Bonogit were white” nonsense.
Remember “Gabe”.
Sheesh, don’t remind me…
#8: Was that the guy with the flying chopsticks? Just more of the quality we have come to expect from “The Newspaper of Record.”
Pity me — I’m a print subscriber.
I don’t think it’s merely the fact that an Indian man was abused on the bus that forms the basis of the story. If you look carefully at the article, you’ll see that the incident is used to contextualize much larger trends, which, being trends and thus being slow-moving and accumulative rather than singular and newsy, are pretty difficult to report without a ‘handle’. It’s a common and effective journalistic technique that has been used time and time again, and to frame it in any other terms would be facetious.
OK, let’s get out of Korea.
Leave Korea to Koreans.
They used the incident to contextualize much larger trends?
Which much larger trends does said incident contextualize? That racial incidents are on the rise? Based on the testimony of an activist with hang-ups about white folk, his female friend, some cherry picked stories and an Amnesty report? How does citing North Korean forced abortions help “contextualize” anything? Or quoting Ms. Hahn to make it seem like Koreans welcome white inlaws but dislike non-white ones? Or claiming — without anything to back this up — that most Koreans use the term “nom” in private? Speaking of which, wouldn’t it have been nice for Choe to have explained how that term is used to help “contextualize” things? I guess the NYT also didn’t see fit to discuss the issues of illegal immigration or ghettoization to help contextualize our bricklayer friend, who — it is plain to see — is just a knuckdragging nativist racist.
I’m just surprised I didn’t see Mike Hurt quoted at all.
Wow – good memory for details, Wedge. After reading the ‘flying chopsticks’ part, it all flooded back. ‘Course, I’m not sure whether to thank you or curse you for that, but I’m still impressed by that level of recall.
How can anybody forget “Flying Chopsticks”?
#6,
It’s still xenophobia because the second-class citizens most likely to take to the streets will be post-reunification North Koreans, not foreign immigrants.
“For the love of Christ, whiny dude with post-colonial hangups meets drunk racist ajeossi on a bus in Seoul and this makes the New York Times? You have to be f… kidding me.”
Robert, you’ve gone Korean (a bad one, not the good ones). That’s understandable. But I’m happy this made int’l news (and I’m quite sure a bunch of other foreigners feel the same).
If this country wants to be as advanced as they want to be, part of respected int’l forums, understood, loved, sparkling, infinitely yours, etc., it’s better they start educating their people.
I suppose I hadn’t forgotten it so much as blocked it out. Personally, my favorite part of that thread was having the Gabe and/or ‘his friend’ tell us all how good a writer Gabe really was, and how wrong we were for thinking otherwise.
‘…my favorite part of that thread was having
theGabe and/or ‘his friend’ tell us all…’I’m sorry, but that’s BS — if an Indian guy got harassed by a drunk guy on a bus in France, a nation that has actually had race riots (sorry, my bad, “youth” riots), it wouldn’t make the NYT. Nor would anyone lecture them about the need to do this or that in order to become “advanced.” Sure, Korea has racial issues — which country doesn’t? — but the NYT piece uses what are, IMHO, bad examples in a poor attempt to explain a complex issue.
gbnhj — God bless Gabe. And his friends. Here’s that thread again, for posterity’s sake:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/06/09/professor-defends-his-woman-in-seoul-restaurant-lives-to-write-story-in-nyt-magazine/
#20: “The Gabe” works better, since he was so kind to grace us “noms” with his presence. Nice Freudian slip.
That there are petty racial incidents in Korea indeed is not newsworthy. That there are national policies reflecting a racist agenda, and professors in positions of authority spouting eugenical nonsense as outdated as phrenology could and should raise eyebrows (albeit not as hard news, though).
I guess I should head everyone off and qualify the above with the standard disclaimer: no, it’s not as bad Moscow, and nobody ever burned a cross in front of my apartment. But still, are we not allowed to criticize until things have hit rock bottom?
Well at least when it comes to race, Thank goodness the Russians show the North East Asians ( Chinese Han , Korean, and Island Japanese) that they umm, look like us Western white ones,…. And with the same dialect… Ever been to an english village in Korea that actually has people not form the former Soviet Bloc?… Didnt think so. Me either.
You’re right “hoju”; I was in a hurry and tired when I posted — sorry about that chief.
I stuck in a crazy sensational title just because the quote is ridiculous and — lo — several people took issue with it. It is more likely that North Koreans would become the low-man on the totem pole if unification occurs rather than some guy from Pakistan. A multi-cultural Korea is almost the only way that certain long-term projects like the Korean Dubai plan can occur. Based upon other projections elsewhere, there are simply not enough Koreans to staff such a grandiose scheme, thus there will be a need to for imported labor.
It is safe to say that the idea of what being Korean means will change as time passes. How this will affect the society is what remains to be seen.
The NY Times and other progressive organs love stories like this. It’s progressive boilerplate.
The general underlying message is that there is some kind of magical disembodied, unstoppable, irresistible meme (i.e. “globalization,” “multiculturalism,” “progress,” etc.) that is currently somehow acting in the world and bringing about glorious change, independent of any concrete ideologies, institutions, intellectuals, politicians, governments, etc. that are promulgating it, are motivated by it, have a vested interest in it. Resistance is futile, give up and give in, the new global order is coming, etc.
The article basically follows the standard narrative: Take a recent “racial” incident. Use example of incident to highlight all the bad, evil, mean racist attitudes. Refer to notable, respected, progressive institution (e.g. Amnesty International) that criticizes, with a report, statistics, etc. Point to aspects of culture, history, national ideology, etc. that “explain” them, all the while hinting that they are atavistic, backward, old-fashioned, indicative of not being “advanced,” and as such about to be swept away by the unstoppable, omnipotent force, which of course is completely independent, not advanced by anybody or anything. And use low class, uneducated prole (e.g. the bricklayer) as representative of the “wrong” opinion on the issue.
It’s just the NY Times on the long march, doing its part in waging the permanent revolution.
Which national policies are you referring to?
PS: I hope that question doesn’t sound antagonistic.
Well, perhaps. Or perhaps not — Korea isn’t the UAE, where the local population is so small that only 20% of the population is Emirati. Or perhaps the projects themselves are poorly conceived.
Yeah, what mkaplan said.
Not at all Mr. Koehler. I’m referring to the mandate that I must submit to drug and HIV tests to perform a certain job, when a Korean doing the same job would not have to. The reason given for this is that “a good many” foreigners are involved in drugs and sex and crime. You posted this on this very site. I’m not referring to the ridiculous things the media says about foreigners, I’m referring to actual legislation.
You could make the argument that the legislators aren’t actually racist, that they’re just reflecting the concerns that the media has brought to public attention. But that argument doesn’t hold water. You can’t sell “Obama is nigger LOL!” t-shirts and then claim that you’re just a capitalist, and your customers are the racists. There is real culpability there, and it has a tangible impact on my life.
My only beef with the NYT article is why they bring in North Korea to the subject. To those reading who can’t tell the difference between North and South Korea, they’ll now think “Korea” is torturing and killing unborn babies who are mixed race. I can see it now, that ignorant prick that works with me smirking “hey, cm, I heard Korea tortures and kills their own starving babies, it was in today’s paper! What’s the difference between Chinese babies and Korean babies – they all look the same to me!”.
@#26, mkaplan, blinded by some ideological agenda and frustrated by the inability to fault the article’s accuracy, casts veiled references to some imagined conspiratorial liberal agenda. Sadder than sad.
“Our ethnic homogeneity is a blessing,” said one of the critics, Lee Sung-bok, a bricklayer who said his job was threatened by migrant workers. “If they keep flooding in, who can guarantee our country won’t be torn apart byethnic war as in Sri Lanka?”
Indeed, thank goodness the country’s ethnic homogeneity has been able to keep Korea from being torn apart.
Shame on Ben Wagner for blowing the lid off the illogic of rationalization.
In 1906 Hubert Hulbert said that Koreans “have been frequently maligned and seldom appreciated. They are overshadowed by China on the one hand in respect to numbers, and Japan in respect to wit…..and yet they are by far the pleasantest people in the East to live amongst”
My two cents:
1) He who has not sinned (i.e. countries that have not had racial issues) cast the first stone.
2) Does the ease of social acceptability with having a Korean girlfriend/wife/female friend get easier with lighter skin color? Serious question.
1) WangKon, as nobody has not sinned, should everyone therefore agree to just sweep the subject under the rug?
2) While we well understand the prejudice against darker skin color, what is the relevence of this question to this particular article? Are you suggesting that foreign workers will increasingly come from Asian nations and not face very serious discrimination?
Dubai is diverse, but it certainly isn’t “multicultural” in the actual loaded, ideological meaning the term has in the West.
blinded by some ideological agenda and frustrated by the inability to fault the article’s accuracy, casts veiled references to some imagined conspiratorial liberal agenda.
I’m not interested in finding factual errors and inaccuracies. A factual error is just that – an error. My point is to try to show how facts are used to construct a particular narrative with certain ideological implications. Finding a bunch of factual errors would frustrate this end.
And it’s not a conspiracy. It’s more like a religion or something.
By the way if you see a Mizar5 comment you know something stupid is about to happen…two stupid things if you actually read it.
Three stupid things if mkaplan follows up with one of his stupid comments.
At least you admit it. It is ideological bias that looks to fault the NYT for pushing some kind of liberal ideology which can only be found if one brings ones own ideological baggage to bear on the article.
@ Mizar,
Oh… no. I’m not saying we should forget or excuse what happened. It should most certainly be discussed. I do think we should add a bit of context though before anyone abjectly criticizes Korean society.
Well, my gut tells me that Korean tolerance with “ethnic mixing”… actual or potential, probably is related to skin color, given the Korean preference for lighter skin.
So, I was just wondering if it’s easier for white men in Korea to date Korean ladies than darker skinned men, etc.
Just for clarification. Easier in terms of social acceptance, not easier in terms of attraction.
Good points/questions. Let’s see what kind of response they generate.
I’m referring to the mandate that I must submit to drug and HIV tests to perform a certain job, when a Korean doing the same job would not have to. The reason given for this is that “a good many” foreigners are involved in drugs and sex and crime.
When I was moving to America, US embassy required me to submit medical records of X-rays, vaccinations and all the blood tests for infectious diseases including HIV. The US embassy also asked me to get the medical records only from US embassy-designated hospitals, such as Yeonsei. In the US, it is also quite common to demand Tb test or blood tests for working in certain public facilities.
But I agree with you that it is unfair when Korean government enforce HIV and drug tests only to foreigners. Koreans must get the same tests too when they apply for the same job. Or any foreigners who try to stay long and have job in Korea may have to present most recent medical records before getting into Korea.
#3,
But that’s just the point – there are a number of reasons why shit jobs are what they are, and pay is one of them.
Let me clarify one thing for this blog reader’s. The racism we are discussing is very localized. A black man dating for example a Japanese women is not an issue on Korea–they really don’t care–nor make comments. So the issue is not of Asian race relations overall–just Korean women dating outside of race. This also applies to Korean women dating Chinese or Japanese guys so its not about Asians dating Asians either. Yellow dating yellow is not the issue–its once again about Korean women dating outside the race.
Good questions, Wangkon. I’ll respond:
1. There is very little stone-casting going on here. Pointing out that something is amiss is not casting stones. Even if it were, why would we only give that right to people from countries with no ethnic turmoil? What the hell would those people know about such a situation? (if they exist)
2. Indeed, a good question. I’ve always had the impression that while my girl and I get the occasional scowl from ajoshi, we’d get more if I were black. I have no evidence to support this.
When I was moving to America, US embassy required me to submit medical records of X-rays, vaccinations and all the blood tests for infectious diseases including HIV.
What visa was that? The US doesn’t normally require HIV tests and certainly not for an equivalent position – say a Korean language teacher on either a J-1 or H1-B.
And what people lose track of is that Korea did not say: foreigners of the world, from now on if you want to come to Korea submit an AIDS test with your paperwork and if you are positive, sorry, but no visa.
What Korea did is take its cue from a hate group here and say: you 17,000 foreign English teachers already living here who we hear are having so much sex with our women – you and only you report to national hospitals and if you have AIDS we are deporting you. We don’t have any evidence of an AIDS problem but we’ve got this hate group breathing down our necks, so there it is. Roll up your sleeves.
And by the way, we here you do drugs as well. So here’s a cup, piss in it will you? While we have zero arrests for you for narcotics in the past three years, we are going to test you for those narcotics just the same because of the smack talk we here from people stalking you in their free time. And if we do turn up something, we are deporting you.
Well stated BKW (except for the spelling error on “hear” [6th word, 4th paragraph of your text])
You may be accused of being a whining English teacher though, so beware.
Many folks on this board have it in their heads that they are a members of a better class of human being than folks in this profession. Gotta love Korea’s little hierarchies . . .
It is also worth noting that this is the 3rd most popular article on http://www.nytimes.com
As opposed to the other folk on the board, who have it in their heads that they’re a persecuted class with “hate groups” breathing down their necks.
# 49
It was for green card. And here is the quote:
“Serologic (Blood) Test: All applicants [of green card] 15 years of age and older are required to have serologic (blood) tests for HIV and for syphilis. Applicants under age 15 can be tested for HIV or syphilis if there is reason to suspect the possibility of infection. Civil Surgeons and Panel Physicians are required to provide pre-test counseling to all applicants who take the HIV test. If you are found to have HIV infection, the Civil Surgeon must provide you with post-test counseling.”
Re: “Flying Chopsticks”.
That thread was a real classic — especially the surprise cameo by
Gabe“Ed” there toward the end. Some of my finest work…Does anyone know if The Gabe has left the building yet? After all, as he is a “world-class talent”, it must be killing him to still be trapped here in Seoul with us local yokels when he’d rather be yukking it up in the salons of Sexcriminalboat or the People’s Gaypublic of Drugafornia, telling “war stories” from his peacetime service in the Marine Reserve.
Zero arrests for narcotics? I think there were about 30 arrests of foreigners on E2s for pot/hash in 2007. I know 13 Americans/Canadians/Africans that all went down together in a Kangnam hagwon bust.This, I think, was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I can think of at least one in late 2008. It’s good to know high people in places. As long as they don’t have your cellphone number stored in their phone. I think you are referring to the fact that none of these people were arrested for hard drugs and those are the only drugs being tested for, now that cannabis is off the list, but pot is still a narcotic. Isn’t it?
People’s Gaypublic of Drugafornia
Um, is this sort of thing condoned by the ABA?
re: #45, President Obama has lifted the ban on visitors to America who have HIV as of last week.
Mr.Mao — You really need to get a Slingbox or start torrenting. Sexcriminalboat and the People’s Gaypublic of Drugafornia are each cribbed from the same television comedy.
As for the ABA, why yes — I do believe that the American Bar Association is totally down with the People’s Gaypublic of Drugafornia.
MrMao:
In order for the Korean government to properly defend its actions, they would have to prove that foreigners commit crimes in Korea significantly more often than Koreans. Nobody ever claimed that foreigners are always innocent (I believe BKW was using a bit of hyperbole). If we were to judge Koreans by the same standard of using a handful of incidents to generalize a sensationalistic “trend,” we could easily conclude that Korean children are not safe with Koreans.
Mr. Koehler:
Exactly at what point do we get to complain? What does the Korean government (or population) have to do to make us pass from whiny brats with persecution complexes to people with legitimate gripes? What’s the criteria? Is it when we’re thrown out of bars for being foreign? Is it when we’re told who we can and can’t talk to? Is it when the government passes legislation that seems more based on xenophobia than anything grounded in reality? Because all that and more has actually happened. So if that’s not enough, when should we sit up and take notice?
I’m getting a little tired of saying this, but here we go again: NO. I SUPPOSE KOREA ISN’T EXACTLY JOHANNESBURG IN 1980. So hooray for Koreans for not going “full-hatemonger.” Still, the government passed legislation based on rumor and hearsay. The evidence used to justify this legislation makes PD Notebook look like freaking Woodward and Bernstein. Even if we ignore the racial angle, wouldn’t any student of political discourse find this outrageous?
FYI: Here is the list of the policies of HIV test requirements for many countries in the world.
China: Foreigners planning to stay for more than 6 months.
Taiwan: Applicants for residency and work permits (Testing is also required for anyone staying over 90 days.).
Singapore: Workers who earn less than $1,250 per month and applicants for permanent resident status (except spouses and children of Singapore citizens).
UK: Anyone who does not appear to be in good health may be required to undergo a medical exam (including an HIV test) prior to being granted or denied entry.
Canada: Any foreigner suspected of being HIV positive (HIV testing is not mandatory for entry).
Australia: All applicants for permanent residence over age 15 (All other applicants who require medical examinations are tested if it is indicated on clinical grounds.)
Russia: All foreign visitors staying longer than 3 months.
Granfalloon — I wasn’t referring to you as a whiny brat with a persecution complex. But since you ask:
Yes, being thrown out of bars for being foreign, being told who you can and can’t talk to (not sure what you mean here, though), and legislation based more on xenophobia than anything grounded in reality might all be terrible, but some degree of a) perspective and b) reflection is needed. In particular, I think b) is especially important, but also quite difficult for a culture (i.e., Westerners) that is uncomfortable with the concept of communal responsibility (think back to the communal apologies for the Virginia Tech shooting). But try to imagine how this might look from the Korean public’s perspective: employment’s down, families have to shell out tons of money for private education, including English education, you have regular (albeit sensationalized) stories about foreign English teachers — many young and inexperienced but getting housing and a decent salary — getting busted for drugs and inappropriate conduct, but far from showing any remorse or reflection on the issue, teachers instead bitch about racism when the government moves to tighten what were (and truth be told, still are) pretty lax visa standards for an E-2 visa.
And as for the drug tests and HIV tests, well, as Peter Kim’s comment shows, lots of countries impose travel restrictions on HIV-positive foreigners (imposing it just on E2 holders as a visa requirement is a bit odd — and ad hoc — and I suppose if you think banning entry to HIV-positive foreigners is a bad thing, the fact that other countries do it wouldn’t matter), and the drug tests, well, given the news, are you really that surprised? I’m sure if there were regular headlines like “Foreign Magazine Editor Busted Mailing Himself Pot,” I’d be taking a pee test when renewing my visa, too.
Mailing yourself pot? How yesterday. You should smuggle the drugs up your rectum,
like I doas I’ve read somewhere.I would feel insulted if a government targeted me for mandatory HIV and drug test on the basis of my job and country. I do not have statistics but sexual crimes or drug abuses do occur among Korean population too. HIV carriers are also present in Korean society. I think reckless statements of some of Korean journalists and leaders also made this issue more complicated.
He teaches English literature and creative writing at Underwood International College @ Yonsei.
Mr. Koehler:
I agree that perspective and reflection is important. I’m usually the first to counsel my coworkers that the ajoshi who mistreated them is probably not a racist but a regular ol’ asshole, and he probably aggravates the Korean folk who have to deal with him as well.
But it sounds like you’re arguing cultural relativism, which I am not a fan of. It’s no more okay for Koreans to be taking their cues from poorly-researched TV shows than it is for Americans to be making judgments about our president’s religion based on forwarded email memes. Being in a collectivist society does not earn one a pass for poor thinking. I’m willing to grant some leeway (a lot, actually), but I get tired of feeling like I have to treat Korea with kid gloves when it comes to critical thinking just because they’re Korea. It does both Korea and myself a disservice. You and I both know that Koreans are just as capable, intelligent and knowledgeable as anyone else around. I see no reason to give them a pass on groupthink just because of their culture.
Either way, I get the feeling we’d both be happier if we could gut 50-70% of the native English teacher industry.
The third paragraph of the article seems to set up pretty clearly why this is in the New York Times:
What was different this time, however, was that, once it was reported in the South Korean media, prosecutors sprang into action, charging the man they have identified only as a 31-year-old Mr. Park with contempt, the first time such charges had been applied to an alleged racist offense. Spurred by the case, which is pending in court, rival political parties in Parliament have begun drafting legislation that for the first time would provide a detailed definition of discrimination by race and ethnicity and impose criminal penalties.
This seemingly insignificant incident received nationwide coverage in the Korean media, spurred a first-time prosecution, and got national politicians to actually talk about the issue and initiate legislation. The incident is not the story. The national coverage and national reaction to it is the story. Think Dog-poop girl, because a dog shitting on a subway isn’t an international media event either, but what followed, and the internet harassment culture behind it, was.
If it were widely covered in the French press, the Frenchman were prosecuted for the first time for such an offense, and it spurred legislation…then yes, it probably would be in the NYT.
And let he who has made a national obsession of begging for the international media spotlight and worldwide recognition — to the point that the evening newscasts routinely run “stories” that consist solely of spotlighting the fact that a major international news outlet covered something about Korea — not be surprised or indignant when some of that spotlight falls upon the unseemly warts of the Hub in question.
If there were any complaints or “You have got be fucking kidding me” remarks when the NYT ran puff pieces about Hyundai or the Cheonggyechon, I’d like someone to point them out. Or maybe point me to some indignation I missed when the same Choe Sang-hun ran a story in the NYT about an insignificant, tiny Indonesian tribe adopting Hangeul, as if THAT belonged anywhere outside the Chosun Cheerleader. That got covered solely because the domestic media made such a stink, and despite the fact that it was nothing but a chest-pounder of no real significance to anyone, including the grand total of 50 kids on that island learning Hangeul.
The reality is that Korea is getting more and more attention from American media outlets, for all kinds of different reasons (cough reporters with the last name Kim/Cho/Lee cough). They’re also learning that the international stage isn’t all Rain promos and kimchi cures cancer bullshit. There’s going to be some scrutiny and uncovering of scabs, so buck up and take the good with the bad. Christ, all the whining and indignation on here sounds like Britney Spears complaining that the paparazzi took a picture of her exposed giner. Well that’s what happens when you call the paps, beg them to cover you, and have no panties.
Deal with the reality or go back to the hermit hole of no coverage to speak of at all.
I do not think most native English teachers got so upset just because of HIV or drug test itself. It may be a necessary procedure that might be progressively implemented for safer educational environment. I think most native English teachers (NETs) felt so offended because the new policy will be “punitively” enacted after the sexual crimes and drug cases. And many of them felt they would be punished for something they never committed. As Mr. Koehler said, this policy came out of Korean “collectivism” as seen in the case of Koreans’ guilty sentiment about Cho Seunghui.
I would suggest NETs organize an association of NETs and the representatives of NETs have regular meetings with Korean government officers or leaders about future policies on NETs. More unified channel of dialogue might help understand each other’s thoughts better and prevent unnecessary conflicts between the policy-makers and NETs. And you might want to invite some authorities or scholars who can give you advices as advisories
Here he is:
http://tinyurl.com/gabehudson
I’m not a racist ajeossi, but I think I might question the taste of a girl who chooses to dine with him too.
No need for that.
Hey, those two “puff” insignificant pieces on Hyundai and Cheonggyecheon were written up by people named Nick Bunkley and Andrew Revkin. I guess now you know why you need people with names like Choe to do some reporting about korea that goes into any kind of depth about the society.
cmm — Here’s a video interview with The Gabe. Looks like he knows where to find both his local STCO store and the AAFES hair shop.
I’m sure after he nailed the hapless interview girl she told him he was better than a Korean man.
Thanks Brendon, the novelist did a great job. I wish that I could get: “Seoul/Korea is misunderstood and unfairly represented in the foreign press, Korean food is great, I don’t want to go back to the USA even for a brief visit, and I didn’t enjoy my recent trip to Tokyo because I kept comparing it to Seoul and it came up short,” into the same 60 seconds the way he did.
I know that girl, and “hapless” is not the descriptor that leaps to mind.
I don’t know her. But that interview was really terrible. I would describe her interview performance in that segment as “hapless” — almost as bad as Jay Leno.
The camera work was cable public-access quality, too.
@66 well said.
Don’t worry; Such coverage does not impact Korea as it does not reach the mainstream US readers. The “perception” of Korea remains a theoretical concept deferred into the future.
While the NYT article was well written to provide a fairly accurate synopsis of a contemporary issue in Korean society, the media outlets that carry such stories cater to the most well-informed, active information seekers.
‘why do you want bad things to happen to other people?’
‘because bad things have happened to me.’
i’m suspicious of these kumbaya yahoos who tell koreans they need to adopt western style immgration policies. these folks don’t really believe in the policies they advocate. they only advocate such policies because they’re angry to see what said policies did to their own country. they want to see the same thing happen to korea.
the koreans better be careful here and not fall for their ploy. korea got to smart with immigration. that means you allow immigrants from countries that have people who stand a chance of blending into korean society. you don’t invite muslims to a pork eating, soju chugging, prostitute loving society like korea. that’s just a recipe for disaster since these kinds of immigrants would choose not to blend in, as they bide their time waiting for their numbers to be such that they can dictate to the people of korea in korea. is that what the yemaek want? do they want to become like the united states where some immigrant woman from nigeria can boss around an old dignified white man? i saw such a scene recently. i wondered if the world hadn’t been turned upside down. i feel sorry for white people. korea needs to avoid that fate.
you avoid that fate with sensible immigration policies that favor countires like the philipines, mongolia, and vietnam. these people stand a chance of having their offspring blend into korean society with the added benefit of shaking up the korean gene pool.
lastly, i want to say once again that the government of south korea should allow open immigration from mongolia. the mongol is the ideal immigrant for korea.
PS no chinese.
EVER!
I wish a 31 year-old Park would yell at me.
Pawi, your attempt to be outrageous and provocative in order to poke politically sensitive white people aside, increased immigration for procreation from the Asian countires you name (Philipines, Mongolia, and Vietnam whose offspring will supposedly “blend into korean society) is occurring naturally. Korean men will continue to import brides from those countries as long as the Korean princess syndrome exists.
Who ever suggested that the Korean gene pool needs to be shaken up? Have you really missed the point so entirely?
Immigrants who are just more of the same do not help Korea to become a more progressive society. Importing more people whose offspring will simply “blend” into the gene pool does nothing to improve the cultural landscape in a nation where nondiversity is apparently one of the major impediments to social progress today.
The way for Korea to truely become an international society is through greater acceptance of diverse peoples. In a nation so lacking in markets, land, and natural resources, people remain Korea’s main resource. If anything needs to be shaken up, it’s the people.
There is no way for an insular people to become international on their own; only the embrace of diversity can achieve that aim. Also bear in mind as well that, as long as people are marginalized and treated as inferiors, they are not going to “buy in” to the culture, and will become a divisive social element. As European nations like France demonstrate, cultural and ethnic clashes are the inevitable result of the marginalization of diverse elements.
http://papers.nber.org/papers/w10904
FYI, a translation of this NYT piece and another article on racism in Korea were the two lead stories on the international section of the United Daily News (Lianhe Bao, 聯合報) here in Taiwan. It doesn’t seem reciprocated by the Koreans, but the Taiwanese are always interested in developments in a country they see as a regional competitor, perhaps especially when it makes the Koreans look bad.
That is so tongue-in-cheek! Naturally, if foreign men marry a Korean woman, it is also likely that we shall see the same thing here: a bossy adjuma, bossing around a young, dignified white man.
Hehehe.
pawikirogii,
I agree with your basic points.
Though, regarding Southeast Asian immigration, while it may be better than, say, African immigration for a number of reasons, it shouldn’t be considered to be completely free of problems.
It has its downsides, one of the biggest ones being average IQ. SE Asian IQ generally averages about a standard deviation below Korean and NE Asian IQ. 1 SD difference is quite significant and introducing a non-trivial amount of immigration from SE Asia will lead to a whole host of negative consequences.
But that’s just the point – there are a number of reasons why shit jobs are what they are, and pay is one of them.
Wages can rise to accommodate. Furthermore, somewhat higher unskilled/low skill labor wage rates will encourage automation and productivity increases.
IQ – lol.
IQ is irrelevent. EQ is the issue.
#82 the incredible prejudice and racist sentiment you have just displayed appalls me. I am speechless….
Hey, sorry R Elgin.
I was refering to mkaplan’s comment about South East Asians which is now #83.
I live in New York City where many races/nationalities have lived for more than a century. No one would argue that this city is one of the most racially and culturally diverse and politically advanced cities in the world. However, I still see cases of racial profiling, hate crimes, and racism. It’s sad that some people are too ignorant to see beyond skin colors and quick to judge others based on where they are from. Perhaps, we all are guilty in this and cannot help feeling insecure about ourselves.
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