Well, that’s not something you see everyday.
(HT to Western Confucian)
by Robert Koehler on August 13, 2009
Well, that’s not something you see everyday.
(HT to Western Confucian)
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{ 44 comments… read them below or add one }
Loved it. Thanks for posting this.
My only criticism is that her voice is a bit too clear and Italian opera inspired. Next time she should wolf down some ripe 홍어 and 소주 to get prepared. I realize this woman is a bit older but listen to all the textures and syncopation she’s got goin’ on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ3APm0Fd9M&feature=related
BTW, It’s very American to “watch” music.
Here’s a better example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck1qH1meNCI&feature=related
The best part of this video is how it opens with the phrase “Pansori’s International Appeal.” You just know that it was placed there with complete earnestness and without the slightest trace of irony.
I realize this woman is a bit older …”
Are you serious? A bit older than what? Is this Let’s Make Fun of the Elderly (as in those over 30) Day on the innertoobz? First we hear that a 45-year old guy is too old for Transformers, and now this? You’re all punks! Punks, I tell ya!!
Oh, and: Get the hell off my lawn!
Again, 45 is not too old for Transformers. 45 is too old to cry during Optimus Prime’s death scene!
Dood, she’s 할머니.
A “bit older” than miss twenty something is an attempt at politeness.
Plus, we ‘aint be got no lawns in Korea.
“Dood, she’s 할머니.”
Are you daft, man? She’s like 30, maybe. (Which might have been 한머니 age back in Joseon Days (or in the U.S. South today), granted. But still.
Judges: a ruling, please?
@7 You misread the thread. And look at the link I’m referring to if you want to understand.
Ah, yes. I must’ve read as far as “I realize this woman is a bit older …” and stopped there. My mistake.
i’m sorry, but pansori is mostly crap, and almost no one gives a toot about outside of korea. sometimes it’s good, but its kind of like Reggae – all you need is Bob Marley and you got the jist. Of course that isn’t really true at all, and I completely disagree with hat logic, but in a way it is true with regards to pansori. When it’s good, it’s good for five minutes. Then it starts to sound like a cat being made into wine.
hmmm cat wine? I’ve heard of 뱀술… but 고양이주? Wild.
He’s referring to 고양이소주 and 개소주, ultra-healthy extracts of tortured cats and dogs pulled through a wringer and then pressure cooked for days with more healthy herbs from that ancient and all-encompassing Eastern Medicinal Knowledge.
You alright there buddy?
vince said, “BTW, It’s very American to ‘watch’ music.”
I’d say it’s very American to listen to music, since it was only made possible by Thos. Edison’s phonograph. Before that (and still in much of the world) the idea of doing anything with music but watching it was impossible (save for the blind).
YouTube is putting us back in touch with the visual aspect of music, altough it fails to give us the communal aspect of a live performance.
dinkus maximus:”i’m sorry, but pansori is mostly crap, and almost no one gives a toot about outside of korea.”
You can’t critique indigneous folk music in those terms. It is an important cultural expression that occurs in a certain social context that must be understood, respected and appreciated on its own specific terms. Pansori was a significant expression of the yearnings and political protest of the people of the period.
Vince was really off track with that comment. A nation that produced jazz, blues, traditional appalachian folk, protest folk, country, rock and roll, funk, soul, R&B, stringband music, bluegrass, barbershop quintets, hip hop, gospel, southern rock, country rock, classical rock, jazz rock fusion, smooth jazz, Aftro Cuban jazz, jam rock…et al. is one nation intensely focused on the quality of the sound rather than the visual image.
While the show aspect can also be an important component of the experience of music, many of the important contributors in that area, such as Peter Gabriel, the Beatles, the Who, etc. are not American. As for musical theatre, that originates with European Opera productions.
I agree with Vince…there is something kinda cool about this video in a hopelessly dorky, band-camp kinda way.
But Italian opera inspired? Um, no.
DLB
#15,
Absolutamente, senor. You ‘get’ pansori, and you get the Soul of Korea. That’s of course if you want to – to be so dismissive of it is to refuse to see a facet of Korea that is like kimchi, only vocal.
Ignore the braids and the heavy frame and look at her naturally unlined, dewy face. White people tend to start showing hints of aging at around thirty. She’s probably still in her twenties or else she has spent most of her life in a cave.
I once took second place in a Korean singing contest for foreigners. Boo-yah, bitches: I gots mad skillz.
Also, I’ll go on record as saying that I would take pansori over trot any day, no contest.
RIP, Les Paul
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/08/13/GA2009081302334.html
“that is like kimchi, only vocal.”
That kimchi is great, cures all ills, prevents avain flu, and now speaks too
“Ignore the braids and the heavy frame and look at her naturally unlined, dewy face. White people tend to start showing hints of aging at around thirty. She’s probably still in her twenties or else she has spent most of her life in a cave.”
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Although I’ve always been terrible at guessing ages, even of fellow pinkish-brownish-white folk.
@7 할머니. 할머니, not 한머니. I just couldn’t do anything right yesterday.
19,sonagi, are we forgetting botox? but id agree she cant be over 30. and she seems to have mastered the facial expressions of korean women as well; minimal scrunching of the face muscles, especially around the forehead and eyes. (lots of scrunching of the chin though!)
Yes, Les Paul had an amazing influence in music and how it was made. I can not begin to image how many guitarist owe him some dues.
No, we aren’t. A middle-aged person who’s had Botox, Restylane, Rejuvederm, or other injections looks like a youngish middle-aged person if the injections take well. “Fifty is the new thirty” is baby boomer self-deluding denial. The best anti-aging treatments administered by skilled hands can make someone look vaguely younger but cannot really replicate the smooth elasticity of young skin. There are tell-tale signs around the eyes and mouth and the contrast with the weathered skin of the neck and chest belies the perfection of the creaseless forehead and padded cheeks.
Awesome, 소리꾼!
Okay…..
First, the whole argument about listen/watch music is pointless, but I’ll bite and give my 2 cents worth.
Perhaps, what was meant (in #1) by “it’s very American to ‘watch’ music.” was simply a dig at American use of that expression… even though that was the first comment and nobody even wrote that and I’ve never even heard of it. And, in that criticism, meant that music is something that one listens to, rather than watches.
Then, the counter-argument was made about an American inventing the phonograph (#14) and therefore it is American to listen to music, and that the visual aspect is very important in musical performances, and also the various contributions of Americans to the music of the world (#16).
To put it nicely, these are poorly thought-out arguments to an ill-conceived comment.
As for the first comment – it was a lame jab at American English.
Let me now address the counter-arguments.
It is no more an American thing to listen to music than it is Japanese. Think about it. Is it only American if you listen to music on an American phonograph but Japanese if you listen to a Japanese transistor radio?
Of course music is something you primarily listen to – especially in the modern world. Think about the proportion of music you just listen to compared to that which you watch as well.
And, of course a performance is something you watch AND listen to. To use a flimsy argument once more to highlight how flimsy it is: you only watch a performance (of almost any kind) if you are deaf… or unless it’s mime.
If you’re taking things literally, it’s impossible to watch music (unless you mean sheet-music, in which case it would be weird to watch it rather that read it) but it’s possible to watch a performance and listen to it too.
The argument about how much Americans have contributed to world music is simply irrelevant – just a knee-jerk defensive reaction to criticism of America.
End rant.
As for the performance in the video in this (the original) post – I thought it was interesting, but lacked something.
I disagree that it was in any way like opera – the tonal quality of the voice was much closer to that of Western folk singing. The way she produces her notes is not as closed and forced as Korean folk singers and not as open and rounded as opera singers. Her voice lacked the rough, at times throaty and at other times nasal, quality of Korean folk singing that gives it its distinct character. Also, the vibrato was a little too restrained – a little too slow, narrow and smooth. Perhaps she was trying to spare her voice – the Korean folk style seems to be very hard on the throat.
Basically, there was nothing wrong with the performance except that she was generally too restrained and controlled compared to the authentic performances I’ve seen (and heard).
Personally, I like this music (but prefer the rougher Korean singers). I also like trot (트로트) or bbong jjak (뽕짝), because it has that same vocal quality. And I like the group folk singing… I don’t know the name. It seems to be quite rural in origin – they use various traditional household objects as percussion. Does anyone know what it’s called? I’d really like to find out.
and of course phonographs were not the first devices for mechanically producing music for listening to…
I guess I made the discussion of “watch music” versus “listen to music” into my own thing in my own head. I see the loss as happening when we moved from everyone (in a village or whatever) being a part of making music to turning it into something done only by specialists, to be listened to or watched by the rest of us. I’m glad there are still a few places in the world where they haven’t bought into the specialization thing. In my parallel universe, I live in a village where there’s music every night, and everyone brings something to the party, be it singing, dancing, or banging on a drum or other instrument.
Schplook figured out what I meant. When speaking, Americans in particular go to “see” music not to “listen” to it. Particularly in pop music. And it requires lip synchers like Madonna, Paula Abdul, Michael Jackson et al. doing far out dance moves to keep people’s attention. The vernacular probably comes from the light shows done in 60′s rock.
However, I stick to my guns on the Italian Opera training. Her tone is pretty even and consistent when it probably shouldn’t be. American folk music introduces nasal tones and more of a speaking style that I don’t hear in this girl’s 판소리.
BTW, there will be a 판소리 festival next month:
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/08/14/200908140053.asp
Thank god, because that was a silly, unsupported comment; it would be hard to conceive of a more relevant argument than the one that I presented, but it is of course easier to dismiss a statement than to present a valid counterproof. There is nothing either defensive or kneejerk in pointing out that Americans take their music seriously. MTV is pretty passe these days.
As for vince’s statement that “when speaking, Americans in particular go to “see” music not to “listen” to it ” I have never heard that particular idiom used by an American.
“I have never heard that particular idiom used by an American.”
If you are a yuhaksaeng, as I suspect you are, I am sure that there are plenty of English-language idioms you have never heard — although I’m not so sure you know what an idiom is. Btw, vince’s statement is not an idiom: it is an observation. Nice try though.
I’m not so sure you know what an observation is. Vince’s statements were bald assertions, not observations – they teach basic logic to yeohaksaeng, you know.
Not to mention the use of a search engine. Enter the term “watch music” into google and see for yourself whether you can find support for the assertion that it is an idiomatic expression, or, for that matter, someting “very American,” as was asserted.
Foolish try.
ditto the term “see music.”
fucking sad
Get your hand out of my but, hardy!
My mother and her friends would pay good money to see this in real life. I hope she goes touring soon.
Interesting switch there Mizar, from overseas student to girl student, is this some freudian thing
or are you in fact a pop-sock puppet…
That’s pretty awesome. Wish there was more background info about this performer and what inspired her to learn pansori.
I’m every woman, Arghaeri. The reason I am a sock puppet is that I am in fact all things to all people.
I quit “watching” music when MTV went apeshit for short attention span theater.
Wow. I read the Marmot semi-regularly and I missed this. Did not realize you guys had a conversation about me. I saw the title, cringed, and thought, “Damn, Marmot found it. Let the scrutiny begin…” And people didn’t disappoint–vocal technique, weight, skin quality, hairstyle, chin scrunching (WTH?), age (really? 30? botox?), “band camp” coolness…nice, guys, nice. (Although there were some genuinely nice comments mixed in there too.)
Give me a break. I had just started learning, and I was in a group class where we had barely learned the drum pattern and had never sung while doing movement. They cleared away all the other (Korean) class members, had me wear a skirt that was too short for me, and filmed me alone. And this isn’t pansori; it’s minyo. The songs are not particularly emotional ones and don’t portray characters in a story as pansori does. It was hardly intended to be a performance. Just a snapshot of a class–not that there is any indication of that in the video information or the way it was filmed. And are people seriously comparing me with singers who have trained in pansori for years and years?
And yes, I did get a chuckle out of the predictability of the video’s opening line. It was shot and posted by the Korean embassy’s KORUS House in D.C. and was part of an article on their website. I thought the article would be about our teacher and her classes, but it ended up being about me instead.
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