Holy Louis Vuitton bag Batman! Per the OECD via the WaPo, in a year Koreans will outpaced Americans in percent of income spent and percent of income not saved.
The WaPo article blames it on competitive spending. Hummm… methinks this is not the kind of ranking Korea will want to boast about.
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OK, let me explain basic economics in the context of a properly working political system, such as exists in the US.
Govt has always been a proxy for the wealthy classes and there’s no reason to believe this will ever change. Of course you’ve got to legitimize it by providing the popular vote. Just as long as you control the outcome through choice of candidates.
The smart money is on providing sufficient welfare policy to maintain a base of productive consumers (unless you can find sufficient markets overseas in which case fuck em.) When the pendulum swings too much in one direction under the Republicans and a severe recession ensues, then you need the Democrats to come in and shore up the consumption base.
After recovery, you then have to chip away at the benefits again to squeeze out the maximum profit for the military industrial complex until the next bust. Then it’s time for the Democrats to step in again.
/pops some popcorn
Spooky. My thoughts exactly, and I’m just a blue collar idiot. So how do we inject a little conscience into the process?
private schools=english/mathematics/korean hagwons
language camps=english camps
foreign travel=english schools and tourism
could the most substantial contributing factor be learning english?
No doubt, “keeping up with the Kims” is strong factor in Korean economics. However, I don’t think it’s fair to classify Korean spending habits as Louis Vuitton vapidity. I understand that education is seen as a “keeping up” issue as well, but it’s still education. I have much more respect for a country that dips into their savings for the education of their children than one that goes into debt to buy the newest Xbox, even if the education expenses are part of a competitive social scheme.
well, that just taught me to read the full article before commenting. the author does point to education as one of the most substantial aspects. still, i’d say that education is a better investment with at least potential roi as opposed to handbags.
There are three things that Koreans borrow the most on:
1) Education
2) Housing
3) Stocks
I don’t think Koreans even come close in over all consumer spending as Americans do.
This is so damn true. My (spoiled?) cousins, especially the female ones, use their Mom’s credit card for EVERYTHING. Expensive makeup, clothes, shoes.
Well, in America, don’t we also spend the lowest % of our salaries on food, something like 8% or 9%? And that is attributed to a lot of processed food and relative low prices of produce? I believe those numbers also factor in eating out as well. Sadly, as you move down the economic scale, the % of salary used on food escalates.
I think Korea is like 20% or 25%. It’s quite high.
Koreans gamble too much on the Real Estate (I’ve seen this not just in Korea, but overseas as well). I’m certain that is the main cause. I think education comes a distant second. Lack of consumer spending tells of weak domestic economy. Domestic economy suffers because Koreans blow all their money on housing and education.
Now I know why there are those catchy little tunes on Korean TV flogging 49% loans – they HAVE to get them. They have obviously not met a bank’s requirements, but the need to spend is still there (have to keep up with the neighbors). How can you ever pay back those outrageous amounts? And I understand that there is another level of loan availability that involves a short guy in a bad suit, under an alley light, who will want just a tad bit more than 49% – more like 49% each month. There must be a market.
Another thing I don’t quite understand – Korea is all about education, getting lots of it. Family priority. When they graduate, most of them are great at rote, but couldn’t figure out a simple problem of comprehension. Why the push for education, when it will not be basically used or maybe unable to be used. They just seem to join the office masses, looking for the next big holiday, or surfing the net at work. It does not appear that Koreans have a great work ethic. The older generation puts them to shame, but the old generation didn’t expect much from them, and just went along with all the silliness they exhibit.
@Brett,
Here’s what I don’t quite understand:
Why is it that in the West, lazy students bum around college for 5, 6, sometimes 7 years, switching majors and colleges, all to realize that: Mom, Dad, I have to go to grad school. I still don’t know what the hell I want to do in my life. Most Western countries don’t stress much education and when a Westerner graduates from college, they can tell me in 107 different ways why their life is special and why they are unique, but they can’t figure out the math to balance a checkbook or compose simple English sentences to write a business e-mail. Why the push for personal englightenment, when the end of said individual road, normally–at least if you walked down the correct road–leads to a very formulaic life in a suburb, watching weekend youth soccer games, chomping organic veggies and watching Netflix movies.
Most Americans overwork themselves, to the point that most young couples, married with young children, do so only to afford previously stated suburban life: Mandarin lessons for Tommy, an SUV to ensure safety, manicures, country club memberships, tennis lessons. Most Americans appear to have a great work ethic, so much that their ethics seem to revolve around work. Only work. The younger generation puts the older generation to shame, but the younger generation didn’t expect much from them, yet the old fogies believe they’re permanently frozen in their 20s, mortified that a middle-aged woman, with a dark tan, clothes bought from the shopping mall and bright blonde highlights might be considered un-cool.
t_song – can you explain the interest rate system in Korea ?
T_Song,
Can you get off this West = America shit.
If you want to give examples then say who it is you’re talking about, as per second part, without lumping in the rest of West that your comments don’t strike much of chord with at all.
Sweeping generalizations, t_song. But here’s another: Koreans emphasize education, not learning or reasoning. Americans have the opposite priorities, use of their minds rather than just their brains.
Don’t fret, they’ll find a way to spin it so they can then tout their world class ranking – likely by emphasizing the percentage of income spent on “edu
macation”, rather than “wasteful consumption”, without, of course, inquiring as to the nature and effect of such “education”.More musings on the role of govt:
Ever since the feudal days, the lords have taken their share from the people. The very purpose of govt (while ostensibly established to care for the people) is to take a piece of their labor.
At some point the landlords realized that in order to keep the serfs in line, they would need to give up a bit of the wealth back to the people. The term “bread and circuses” originates in Rome, the model for modern democracy.
Well, the landlords became the lords of industry, and as learning has become more widespread, the subterfuge has needed to become more subtle. As people increasingly understood that they were working for the welfare of the lords, they demanded a bigger piece of the pie. Government has been forced to comply by regulating industry so as to curb the more inhumane excesses. The role of the citizen in a participating democracy is to lobby against the interests of the lords.
A balance of power between the lords of industry and the people they are supposed to serve is the capitalist ideal. The shareholder mechanism just doesn’t work. It in fact encourages the excesses of greed. The only agency through which the people can get their fair share is government.
It’s not that I am not advocating a redistribution of wealth strategy. Rather I am recognizing that it is the basis of capitalism, democracy and human commerce. Establising a compromise that works in the favor of all parties is what a civilized society engages in.
A true centrist or independent (as opposed to fake ones like Lou Dobbs or Ron Paul )understand that idealogues are no more than a distraction from constructive dialogue
How’s that for some off-topic musings. Hell, if NK and wjk can do it, I can hang with the best.
My Korean coworker and I were discussing the low birthrate in Korea, and reasons why. His older son is 5, and the kid’s already costing the family 1,000,000 PER MONTH in education fees (kindergarten+hagwon fees), a significant portion of his monthly salary.
Really now, what can a 5 year old be learning that is worth 1,000,000 per month?
I remember what I did when I was 5. I went to kindergarten about 3 hours a day, pulled girls’ hair at recess, then went home to watch Popeye cartoons. Elementary school, despite going to school from 8am – 3pm, it was pretty similar. In junior high, if I didn’t understand my math homework, my dad would sit down with me and work with me until I understood it, and boom, hakwon avoided. Once that was done I played Nintendo. In highschool, I got out of school at 3pm each day and often worked a part time job until 10pm in the evening, cranked out my homework, and went to bed. I never heard of a hakwon until I came to Korea. I went to public schools, none of which were particularly stellar. I went to college, then grad school, and here I am, in decent shape. Can all of this spending that Koreans do on edumacation really be worth it? Where’s the benefit? What a sad system.
===
And t-song, those are some serious generalizations. I don’t know many people who went to undergrad for six years. I heard some stories, but those people were generally considered lazy. It sounds like you are describing suburban Chicago life, which doesn’t represent the USA or, as Arghaeri points out, the West as a whole very accurately.
For t-song’s eyes only.
Just read the following:
“Why is it that in Korea, lazy students bum around college for 5, 6, sometimes 7 years, switching majors and colleges, all to realize that: Mom, Dad, I have to go to grad school if I don’t want to end up selling cell phones. Korean appears to stress education and when a Korean graduates from college, they can tell me in 107 different ways why their life is special and why they are unique, but they can’t figure out the math to balance a checkbook (but, that’s okay, Koreans are the best at math, right?) or compose simple Korean sentences to write a business e-mail. Why the push for personal enlightenment (I corrected your spelling mistake), when the end of said individual road, normally–at least if you walked down the correct road–leads to a very formulaic life in a suburb, watching weekend youth soccer games, chomping organic veggies and watching “user-created content” online.”
“Most Koreans overwork themselves, to the point that most young couples, married with young children, do so only to afford previously stated suburban life: English lessons for Jae Song, an SUV to ensure safety, manicures, country club memberships, golf lessons. Most Koreans appear to have a great work ethic, so much that their ethics seem to revolve around work. Only work. The younger generation puts the older generation to shame, but the younger generation didn’t expect much from them, yet the old fogies believe they’re permanently frozen in their 20s, mortified that a middle-aged woman, with golf clothes bought from the department store and curly hair might be considered uncool (another spelling mistake).”
Done reading? Great!
Of course, the sweeping generalizations made here and in your original post are total bullshit. I just wanted to reclaim the minute I wasted reading your original.
I was in undergrad for 5 years, though I did get 3 science degrees. ( ._.)
Pity the fool who clicks on KrZ’s avatar!
“cranked out my homework”
My high school’s idea of a program for gifted students was letting us work at our own pace. A few weeks into the semester, we would have read the textbooks cover to cover and done all the assignments. Not having to study or do homework was great, but I wish I would have been better prepared for university (still managed to complete grad school with honors, though). One could surmise that this isn’t a problem in Korea because the hagwon system prepares students for university (admittedly, indirectly so)…Too bad it’s overdone to the point that many students have already become fed up with studying by the time they enter university.
There’s a contradiction here. People are decrying Korea’s spending on education, while touting the education system of “the West.”
But the Koreans who spend the most on education are the ones who send them to the West to be educated.
So, did I just blow your mind?
Krz,
My buddy managed to get 3 bachelor’s degrees in 7 years. His parents still tease him that when people go to university for so long, people usually call them ‘doctor’.
That kind of “at your own pace” system would have been my academic death. I needed the structure of deadlines. Call me a dreamer.
cmm,
yeh, me too, wouldn’t open the book until just before the deadline let alone completed it well ahead.
#20, So how many shared common science credits there KrZ?
Genetics and molecular biology overlapped heavily, but math required a sufficient number of extra hours to justify taking 5 years. I took a bunch of unnecessary physics classes as well. Things start overlapping so much when you accumulate enough credits that you can just about pick up a new degree every semester, I was close on biochemistry and organic chemistry when I had to abruptly end my studies. Kind of the nerd version of the indecisive college student t-song was deriding.
Mizar5,
Ron Paul is more accurately a libertarian. He’s not a fake anything.
Krz,
Yes, it sure does overlap. Heck, it’s possible to get a degree in biochemistry with more credits in biology and molecular biology than biochemistry itself.
Are the fake Louis Vuitton bags no longer good enough for them?
Mkaplan, my point was that libertarians are idealist ideologues, ie. not realists, centrists or independents. That is not to say that he is not sincere in his beliefs.
Wow–where were all of your “sweeping generalization” sensors when reading Brett M.’s post, who I was clearly mocking, down to the same structure?
Honestly, turn the mirror on yourselves. I’m by no means a full-blown Korean sympathizer, but seeing the ungrounded comments posted here by alleged Korean “experts” (Hey, I’ve lived here for 3 years and I can order kimbap), I couldn’t hold my tongue.
This from the alleged Korean “expert” who hangs out with gyopos all the time even when in Korea!!
Obviously, it was not “so clearly” mocking Brett M [facetious knee jerking, possibly satire, but mocking?]. At least there was within the Brett’s generalisation a point – the difficulty understanding the seeming obssession with education here, representative of a large proportion of the population, which surely you’re not saying is ungrounded. Nor surely that, the “driver” for a great deal of those people is to get into the big chaebol office, or international company, is ungrounded. As opposed to selection of the outlyer rich lazy bum minority, representative of, oh yes the rich lazy bum minority.
If it was down to the same structure, why was it three times longer and far more sweeping in its generalisations than Brett_M’s piece.
Turning the mirror on myself: I didn’t say anything to Brett M.’s comment because I’m not qualified. Maybe he was right, maybe he was wrong. I thought it would be better for a Korean who knows more about it than him to judge his correctness.
And, FWIW, I can’t see how you were mocking him, certainly not down to the same structure.
brett:Another thing I don’t quite understand
Here’s what I don’t quite understand
brett: Korea is all about education, getting lots of it.
Why is it that in the West, lazy students bum around college… for 5, 6, sometimes 7 years, switching majors and colleges, all to realize that: Mom, Dad, I have to go to grad school.
brett:When they graduate, most of them are great at rote, but couldn’t figure out a simple problem of comprehension.
…when a Westerner graduates from college, they can tell me in 107 different ways why their life is special and why they are unique, but they can’t figure out the math to balance a checkbook or compose simple English sentences to write a business e-mail.
brett:Why the push for education, when it will not be basically used or maybe unable to be used. They just seem to join the office masses, looking for the next big holiday, or surfing the net at work.
Why the push for personal englightenment, when the end of said individual road, normally–at least if you walked down the correct road–leads to a very formulaic life in a suburb, watching weekend youth soccer games, chomping organic veggies and watching Netflix movies.
brettIt does not appear that Koreans have a great work ethic.
Most Americans appear to have a great work ethic, so much that their ethics seem to revolve around work. Only work.
brettThe older generation puts them to shame, but the old generation didn’t expect much from them, and just went along with all the silliness they exhibit.
The younger generation puts the older generation to shame, but the younger generation didn’t expect much from them … mortified that a middle-aged woman … might be considered un-cool.
OK, I can kinda see it now, but it wasn’t obvious, and didn’t seem to be very effective at getting your point across, whatever it was.
Likewise
The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class: Higher Risks, Lower Rewards, and a Shrinking Safety Net. This video is of a 50 minute lecture given by distinguished law scholar Elizabeth Warren, who teaches contract law, bankruptcy, and commercial law at Harvard Law School. She is an outspoken critic of America’s credit economy, which she has linked to the continuing rise in bankruptcy among the middle-class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
It’s long but worth it. I suspect you will find parallels between what happened in the US in the 80s and what is happening in Korea now, such as the influx of more and more women into the workforce and sky rocketing real estate prices.
Thanks vince; that was really good.
I would guess that housing expenditures are a significant element of this statistic, since Korean housing has skyrocketed so in the last couple decades. Having recently moved back to the US, I marvel at how affordable housing is in many places here. It is so in places where the recession hasn’t hit that hard, too.
The American savings rate going up just can’t be a bad thing. I recently saw an ad for a booklet you could buy in the states that was about ‘how to save $10o0 in a year’.
The difference between the insistence on spending for leisure and pleasure in Korea from 1980 to now is staggering, no? So blowing a wad for fun is a big part of this, too.
Credit card (singular) paid in full EVERY month. Keyed the apt. Cash for the vehicles. At least $150 G’s put away since 2000. Saving for me is all about spending less than I make. What’s so tough about that? Granted, I’m fortunate enough to have a decent paying job, but, again, no matter what you make, only spend that, no more. How hard is that?
Mizar,
Any recommended books related to your essay at #17?
wookinponub, have you read Freakanomics? I believe it gets into the development of currency and the origins of our modern economic system in the middle ages.
@Andrew
My pleasure.
I’ve been on vacation in Jeolla Nam-do this past week and finally stopping by to see what’s happening in the hole.
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