And in another installment of “Poorly Thought Out Musings of a Fucking Noob” (no offense to any noobs who might be reading), UCLA’s very own Jon Huer argues — again — that Korea is a “strange” country:
In spite of its economic and structural standing, Korea remains a mystery and a puzzle to those at the center of the world who struggle to understand it and comprehend its ways.
Judged from the main center of globalism and international culture, Korea’s seems to be one of the most difficult cultures to understand and comprehend, placed near the edge of the world on its culture map.
Among the OECD-members, the world’s top-30 or so societies, very likely Korea’s is the most marginally comprehensible of all cultures and nations among them. One columnist wonders why Korean food is unwelcome to Americans while Japanese sushi, Chinese cuisines and Thai dishes are not.
Oh yeah, and they can’t speak English, their social conduct is bizarre, blah, blah, blah. It all makes Jon Jon’s head hurt. Oh, that inscrutable Oriental mind!
Outside Korea, where international, global, rational norms are expected, this exclusive “insiders’ Korea” merely perpetuates an image that is largely strange, unintelligible and sub-cultural to the mainstream sector of the world. It is true, Korea is too complicated for foreigners to understand!
We shall all rejoice when this insider’s Korea is transformed into something easily understandable and open to the center-culture of the world.
Perhaps they should start by creating a new language, Jon?
{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }
FUCLA…
Huer is writing from his own world, and it’s quite different from the world the rest of us would like to think we are living in together. That’s been so well established by now. Do we really have to beat this dead horse again and again?
Sorry if I sound grumpy.
And, at the time of my comment, the link to his article in question is… not to the article in question.
That’s right, cmm. In this case, it looks as though Robert Koehler is writing from his own world.
I think it’s an excellent article. Well done, Jon!
Surely, you jest.
I’m not joking, and stop calling me Shirley.
Though Park City temps were sub-zero, School of Cinematic Arts (SCA) alumni, students, and faculty were in the glow as they celebrated the official USC screenings selected for this year’s Sundance Film Festival.
Looking for my Brother – directed by Nathaniel McCullagh ’04, produced by Jon Huer ’05 and Adam Lebovitz ‘05
http://cinema.usc.edu/about/ne.....ndance.htm
What’s the first rule of Fight… er, I mean TMH? You don’t criticize the blog owner…
That was directed at #3.
At least Korea’s finally found what it’s been craving for – a unique distinguishing character attributed to it that makes it different from Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and the rest of the Asian countries. hehehe. That’s better than nothing I say – the people are difficult, insular, English is hard for them and it’s just very very strange. I think it’s OK.
“Korea, Welcome to the strange country.”
You’d think a guy from LA would know about the popularity of Korean restaurants.
“It is true, Korea is too complicated for foreigners to understand!”
And yet, we make up 2% of the population.
Fact is, when you get over the superficial differences, people are more alike than different.
I don’t know what all the fuss is. Jon Huer has obviously fallen into the logical trap of over-generalization; his problem is that he standardizes entire cultures on criterion that can only be suitable when applied to individual behavior. But he does make some interesting points. If you can state that entire cultures can be analyzed on the same level as individual people, than you couldn’t find someone with more symptoms of schizophrenia (mad cow disease parade, identfiying US/Japan as biggest threats to Korean national security while thinking NK as our natural soul brothers), bi-polar disorder (roh funeral parade, always pointing out how Western influence is corruptive yet idolizes Western academia as a form of social status), obsessive compulsive disorder (the incessant need to make things on the surface look good and presentable while ignoring any thought on underlying factors) then us kimchi brothers.
John Huer is so insightful and stimulating I hope Robert changes the name of this blog to “The John Huer Hole”. (loud snoring sound and eyes closed)
Didn’t he already say prettymuch the same thing in an article back in January? He got ripped by Professor Hur Mi-young for that one, if I’m not mistaken.
Is Huer’s latest column really that controversial?
He’s saying that in comparison with the dominant world culture (U.S. + Brit World, if you will), Korea is one of the strangest societies on the planet — certainly one of the strangest among the developed world, or OECD (or G-30, if you will). Is that really even debatable? We’re talking about a land where spinning barber poles are seen on virtually every street, yet falling in love outside of marriage is considered a huge threat to social order and a BIG no-no. A land that is much closer to Arabia than to America in its shameful treatment of women. (Note: I have long thought that all that’s missing here is the veil; and damned if I didn’t just learn that Joseon-Era women did wear coats over their heads and faces that, in concert with their robes, did, in fact, resemble a chador or burka on their rare excursions outside the inner courts of their homes.)
A land where seniority matters, and all else, including merit and legal rights … not so much.
Huer’s article failed because he was afraid to give any such examples. He just kept writing the same paragraph over and over, that Korea is strange. He never told us why. But we know why. And the key, again, is in relation to the dominant world culture.
If Korea is so strange to him, maybe he should try venturing forth from the base once in a while and experience Korea first-hand.
“Strange” country? I’d give that title to Japan, no offense.
Jon Huer’s articles are an easy whipping post, as each time he tries to sound wise about things he isn’t. What’s new about that?
I believe that Huer’s articles are part of some kind of elaborate sociological experiment and that folks who comment on them are his unwitting test subjects. Oops, I have been caught in his fiendishly clever web!
One more thing; say what you will about the man, but he does get read. The online KT even has a seperate area just for talking about his articles. Oh, I get the odd bashing comment for my KT articles (some dude called my latest “abnormal baloney”), but Huer is operating on a higher plane.
Personally, I found the column a big yawn. Nothing very edifying there, just a puzzled outsider’s view into a relatively inaccessible culture that he does not have the background to understand. What we have here is a rehash of the outdated myth of the “inscruitable oriental”
To really be qualified to opine that Korea is incomprehensible, you must first spend decades going native until you come to believe that you really have developed a deep familiarity. After that you can begin to come full circle and realize that it really is incomprehensible.
I don’t know about how “strange” Korea is compared to the rest of the OECD crowd, but one thing that continues to amaze me is how far off the radar Korea continues to be for most people. I do a fair amount of business traveling in both the U.S. and Europe, and I’d say that Korea does not register at all for the vast majority of my colleagues, most of whom still see it as an international backwater. I mean, you can find Samsung TVs, LG phones, and Hyundai cars in a lot of these places, but “Korea” remains a conceptual nonentity. Nobody seems very interested in the place, and no one really wants to visit there unless they have to.
Maybe that does qualify as “strange.”
DLB
“To really be qualified to opine that Korea is incomprehensible, you must first spend decades going native until you come to believe that you really have developed a deep familiarity. After that you can begin to come full circle and realize that it really is incomprehensible.” Mizar5
OK, it’s only the 27th, oops 28th, so maybe it’s too early. But … comment of the month? Yes?
If you want to confirm whether it is “strange” just ask a stranger. You might want to confirm this by talking to your left hand, since it may not know what the right hand is doing. Don’t neglect to cross-check this with your ass.
At least Mr. Huer has some cajones. Isn’t there some expression about biting the hand that feeds you…
But I guess the rules are different for superstars like the Korean Maureen Dowd.
t_song:”Isn’t there some expression about biting the hand that feeds you…”
No there is not. Or did you mean in English?
There is, however, some expression about a reclining man spitting in the air. But seeing as it’s Korean, it’s incomprehensible.
# 23,
It’s not so strange when your neighbors are China and Japan. It’s the Jan Brady effect. You don’t think of her much because she’s sandwiched between the adorably cute Cindy and the social butterfly Marcia.
of course the Kims forced the Koreans early on to become Jan Bradys instead of Marcias. Cindy used to be a non player until they were brought up by the Portuguese.
There’s another Kim clan in North Korea bestowing upon millions of Koreans the heritage of kowtowing to China. Ugliest family I have ever seen that is unfortunately genetic.
Who is the best Kim of all time?
Kim Dae Jung? Kim Il Sung? Kim Yong Sam? Kim Jong Il? Kim Yooshin?(Lee Soonshin saved us from the Japs, who did Kim Yooshin save us from? Ourselves?) Andong Kims?
So many choices, so many qualifications. So hard to decide.
Jon Huer.
Assuming he is not the Maryland guy with a beard, balding head and sunnies,
Is he a 5 foot 7 ish East Asian Korean guy, who had his last name changed by his father from
Huh? to Her to Huer?
Jon is atypical as well,
Most of the first generation Koreans go with John.
I assume he speaks zero Korean, yet is supposedly a scholarly expert in Korean matters.
Kind of like you guys. The white or the black ones.
You guys have a lot in common.
Wangkong @ 28,
If this were 1989 rather that 2009, I’d be exactly on the same page with you. But Koreans have been relying on the “we’re a small, divided country between two giants” excuse for too long now. (Inevitably, Koreans like the “shrimp between two whales” imagery. Others, less kindly, describe Korea as a phallus between to thighs.)
Either way, Korea has an image problem… Or more accurately, a lack-of-an-image problem. China and Japan have nothing to do with it, as most Koreans will admit privately.
DLB
@DLB
Given your own international travels — and assuredly some connection to Korea — I wonder how you can believe China and Japan “have nothing to do with it…”? Korea neither has Japan’s economic might–or international investment; nor does it have China’s history or size.
By you using the word, excuse , I really wonder how you think Korea as a country has failed? That it has failed to market itself effectively to the West? That it hasn’t “branded” itself? Korea is undoubtedly overshadowed by Westerners, who either go to the Great Wall to feel a sense of history or to Tokyo b/c it’s Westernized. I think what you’re suggesting is that Korea get a brand, a shtick, and I think Korea is mostly void of the goods to establish it.
Yet then we have this fact: Korea actually DOES have quite the strong image … in Asia, via Hallyu. The entertainment industry was and probably still is strongly supported by the government, and the K-pop scene and dramas and movies were viewed as weapons to spread Korea to generate tourist interests.
Au contraire, monsieur, I beg to differ. The lack-of-an-image is by no means a problem. If people had an accurate image of Korea, now that would be a problem.
Mizar,
Clearly, South Korea has a lot of faults. If you think in terms of toursim and short term stay, Korea has enough charm where it can be an adequate host for two weeks to a month to most people.
Regarding leaving impressions to the rest of the world, even countries that are not very welcoming have positive images around the world. Think of the French. Stereotyped as being snobbish and rude, people still want to go to Paris, eat the food, drink the wine and check out the Eiffel Tower. Would I want to live in France or even work there? Probably not. But would I like to spend my vacation there and spend several $10k or more there over a few weeks? Sure. Would I buy French wine? Sure.
t_song, as usual, raises some valid and insightful points that deserve a response.
First, I think it’s fair to say that it’s Koreans who are worried that they’ve “failed” to develop an international image, not me. Frankly, I think the country is doing quite well, and should ease up on its own obsessive compulsion with the notion of having to brand itself to the rest of the world. But the Koreans I talk to, both in business and government, also readily concede that using Japan and China is a face-saving excuse…there are plenty of small countries, in Europe and even in Korea’s own backyard in Southeast Asia, that have very strong — and favorable — international images, and often among people who’ve never been there! I mean, how many people have ACTUALLY been to Denmark?!
Second, t_song makes a great point about Korea’s image within Asia. Korea actually has a thriving tourism industry among Asian tourists, thanks in large part to its movie and entertainment industry. (Unfortunately, long before Yon-sama, there was also a thriving sex tourism industry between Korea and Japan, so “entertainment” here is obviously a loose term.)
The point here, though, is that Korea’s obsession with international image is really an obsession with Korea’s image in the West. To the extent that Koreans themselves see Korea’s image as lacking, they’re absolutely right. Outside Asia, Korea doesn’t really have an image, and most Koreans readily admit this.
My own thinking is that Korea is doing a lot of things right, but promoting its image in the West is not one of them. Whether it NEEDS to promote is image, though, is something that Koreans have already decided. That question is not really in dispute.
DLB
Dogbertt,
Considering that the two schools are less than 30 miles away, it’s hard for people to be associated with one school to not be somehow involved with the other school on some level. However, I’m still glad that Jon’s PhD says UCLA and not USC on it.
Damn you, WangKon, stop being so reasonable.
Yes, Korea has lots of charm. It could have great tourism potential. Even if it is “strange” it might even be able to play up that exoticism, as Japan and China have done so successfully.
And Korea does not need foreigners telling it how to cater to them or how to make it a pleasant place for them to sojourn. It is a sovereign nation, determines its own destiny, and has the right to be as uncompromising as it likes. The primary concern of Koreans must be Koreans. There is also the question of how many tourists a crowded place like that could actually tolerate. Korea may always be obscure, but that is precisely what Koreans – underneath their craving for respect and status – really want – to be left alone.
Before foreigners can discover Korea, Korea must discover itself. Before it can project an image, it must develop a self-image. An actor can play a role, but unless he truely projects seemly confidence and ease in that role, he will not be a very convincing actor. So it is now with Korea. Image-making is an exercise in futility, as is obvious from the meandering, bumbling attempts to brand itself, because Korea really has no self-image to project.
You write that the French are seen as snobbish. The positive side of that is that they are perceived as having the most uncompromising cultural standards. The Japanese are viewed as rooted in a deep spiritual tradition that they apply to the boardroom and to building the most thorougly cutting-edge technological wonders. The Italians and Spaniards are seen as vivacious and exuding old world charm and modern sensuality, the Germans and Swiss as precise and orderly. A nation’s character is determined by its people.
Yes, Korea has lots of natural charm. But when it comes to the people, what impression do foreigners come away with? I submit that Koreans still project insecurity, stubbornness, crassness and an obsession with superficial appearances bordering on OCD. Therein lies the problem.
Mizar5,
Last comment on this thread, I hope. I’d just add that I kinda dig Korea’s pathologies. Korea can be exasperating, and it sure ain’t Japan, but I wouldn’t change a friggin’ thing. Just don’t fall in love with the place ’cause it WILL NOT love you back!
Cheers, hombre.
DLB
That’s part of the problem. Foreigners have this image of France based on Paris. Which is of course a shortcut that doesn’t really encompass the whole of France. The Catalans in Perpignan, the Bretons, the Marseilles crowd, while all being French (well, maybe not in Marseilles, but anyway), and their regions are so different from Paris that they could qualify as different countries with a different culture.
I shouldn’t think so. First it’d require you learn French. Unless you lived in one of the expat enclaves. And even so – dealing with everyday life sans a good command of French must be a nightmare. Then there’s that taxation thing. Assuming you’d be in the higher income brackets, you’d leave around 52% of your gross income on the French IRS’ counter. And 19.60% VAT. And some novel ideas like a part of your “social contributions” (social security, retirement, etc) re-assigned to your income as “non-deductible” when calculating income tax. Which means you pay tax on taxes.
Of course in exchange of all this, you get good, not too expensive (never believe the “free” part) healthcare, unemployment benefits, and many other things *you* may not need but you are still financing. It’s a choice to make, and as for me? I decided not to contribute…
“Of course in exchange of all this, you get good, not too expensive (never believe the “free” part) healthcare, unemployment benefits, and many other things *you* may not need but you are still financing. It’s a choice to make, and as for me? I decided not to contribute…”
how can I go straight for the unemployment benefits?
Re: “Before foreigners can discover Korea, Korea must discover itself. ”
Brilliant observation, Mizar5. Seriously.
This country desperately needs a wave of interest in pop psychology, akin to what happened in the US (and elsewhere) in the 1970s. A knowledge based framework is needed to enable average Koreans to address issues such as racism, diversity, sexism, the meaning of “free speech”, tools for conflict resolution (as in the National Assembly boxing forum), etc. Advanced countries need advanced tools. And from the standpoint of “psychology”, “awareness” and “EI”, most Koreans remain oblivious and trapped into stereotyping themselves (and everyone else) with a monolithic sense of Korean group think.
Dear English teachers, work psychology topics into your curricula!
Seriously? Even a Mizar can be right twice a thread.
Well, it’s only strange to those who haven’t lived there long. Things can seem normal after you get accustomed to it. The expats who go back will find things strange in their own countries that they didn’t find strange before.
What amazes me is the elevated status of strangeness John Huer gives it just because it’s meant to be his special topic.
Mizar, you come up with some self-important pompous one-liners reeking of toe-rag & bum-fluff philosophy from time to time. “Before foreigners can discover Korea, Korea must discover itself.” is one such example.
Yuck.
Yuna, simply stating you don’t agree with a statement is weak. Maybe you are right and Mizar5 is full of it. I think I understand what he’s saying because I’ve been bantering around with him for weeks on this and related topics. My comment @41 was designed to flesh out his statement. Examples focused on your argument against Koreans needing deeper understanding of their own psychology to allow them to solve issues with outsiders would be helpful. Or maybe “yuck” is all you got.
Before you can understand yuna, vince, you must understand yourself.
알겠습니다. Let me find a jar and probe the inner working of my, uh…
I agree with and understand what Mizar says too. However, it’s just that sentence that had me scratching all over. Some sentences are just gross & yuck. That’s also the problem with John Huer. It just reminds me of my creepy R.E.(religious education teacher) who used to feel the curtain when he was addressing the class.
yuna, i hope “the curtain” isn’t a euphemism…
that would be kinda “gross & yuck.”
No, it was a real beige & velvet curtain, and he used to stroke it while giving us a rundown on Buddhism & Hinduism.
But Mizar’s sentence isn’t creepy. I digressed, that’s all.
My constitution just cannot take one-liners imbued with superiority and pomposity, such as this one.
Yuck I get. It’s one thing to be outted for just being wrong, which in my case occurs with some frequency, but quite a more shameful offence to be caught being jejune.
Ah, thanks for that clarification, Yuna. Superiority and pomposity I can live with.
by *this one* I meant my own sentence.
Well, naturally, it takes one to know one, Yuna.
I enjoy it whensome people who don’t like what I have to say call me names. Not just for the attention, either, but for the irony. Perhaps they think that I am blissfully unaware of the fact that I am the pot calling the kettle black?
But how well can you identify a quality unless you know it yourself?
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