Newsis (via the Chosun Ilbo) reports that a foreign English teacher is Ulsan was sexually assaulted by a male neighbor in her apartment.
To make matters worse, however, she claims police were rather lukewarm in their processing of the case. Due to the trauma she suffered, she if afraid to even go out.
The problem, it seems, is that cases of sexual assaults on foreign women often end without punishment. The assaulted woman said a female teacher had been sexually assaulted by a foreign laborers in Ulsan a few years ago, too. The perp was caught, but not punished.
She said police are telling her that she needn’t remain in Korea for the case to finish. Why she should have to leave Korea for the case to end, she doesn’t know, and she’s afraid the case will come to naught.
Her foreign collegues say there are frequent sexual assaults on foreign women. Perps take advantage of the fact that they are in Korea illegally or cannot adjust to life in Korea.
According to piolice, the teacher — a 23-year-old South African — was assaulted by her neighbor, a Mr. B, on the morning of July 8. Her coworker reported the assault to the police, who collected evidence and caught Mr. B five days later.
After questioning, Mr. B confessed to his crime. He reportedly said he would pay the teacher sufficient compensation and asked that the victim leave the country (!).
The teacher, however, wants her assaulter punished. At any rate, she plans to leave for home on July 25. She said she wants the man punished to sound a warning bell to Korean society, namely, that foreign women are caught in a blind spot where, because they are not Korean, they are not covered by the social safety net nor can they receive compensation for their losses.
Ulsan-area English teachers apparently met at a restaurant in Seongnam-dong to come up with measures, including a list of things for female teachers to watch out for and an emergency contact list.
Marmot’s Note: I’m not a lawyer, of course, but I thought the decision whether to accept compensation or to press ahead with criminal charges was the decision of the victim, not the police.
BTW, this story seems a bit off to me. If I’m reading something wrong, please let me know.
UPDATE: Facebook thread on the case here. Korea Beat has a translation of the entire piece here, too.
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Hmmm. I posted a comment but it somehow disappeared…
Anyway, this is definitely not the first time for this to happen in Ulsan. In about 2003 or 2004, a Canadian woman let a (Korean) guy into her apartment, as he said he was there to read the meter. He proceeded, in the middle of the day, to tie her up and brutally rape her.
Upon being discovered and untied by her roommate, they contacted the police, whose response was basically, “What do you want US to do?” They failed to carry out even a basic rape investigation, which would include a trip to the hospital to try and gather DNA evidence. As far as I know, there was never any effort to catch the perpetrator, and the woman went back to Canada soon after she was raped.
It is inaction like that of the police that harms Korea’s reputation.
First, when I was in Korea, an acquaintance of mine was assaulted by a Korean man. The man followed her onto a bus and badgered her. He started kicking her on the sidewalk after following her off the buss and no one helped her. It was broad daylight. She reported it to the police and they caught him. It wasn’t his first time for assault against foreign women, as he had a whole list under his name. However, they just let him go.
However, she was going to get hers. She remembered his name and phone number from the reports and found out where he lived and worked. She had some people rough him up pretty good on 2 occasions. She left Korea 3 days later feeling a menacing sense of satisfaction.
That’s really unfortunate, but I think this may be a solution. Foreign women have absolutely no protection or rights when it comes to this. So I really do think that if no one is going to help you that you have to help yourself (though not necessarily with violence).
You have to think what could really get the attention you deserve when the police and the nation are ignoring you. And that is the reputation and face of Korea. Take it to YouTube in video form and get the foreign media involved. Make a country-wide support group that women can trust and know they will be heard when something like this happens. This group could give support as well as speak when the victim cannot. As a group, the group can expose the issue, the men and their information, and give the proper respect and validity that the victims deserve.
I spent 4 and a half years in Korea. I had a very positive, wonderful experience. I am not against the Korean people in any form. In fact, Korea is very close to my heart and I can’t wait to visit again. But I am against the assault of women in any country. It breaks my heart that the Korean government can’t be bothered with this. Maybe with more attention and exposure by a group, they will finally take action.
“BTW, this story seems a bit off to me.”
Well yeah, that’s usually the case when women are assaulted in Korea.
Does Mr. B = Mr. Bae?
“It is inaction like that of the police that harms Korea’s reputation.”
If you measure “reputation” strictly in terms of how many pieces of anti-rape/domestic violence are passed, how many anti-rape/pro-woman/feminist marches and rallies are staged, how many public funds are spent (wasted) on government and social programs to “fight” or “prevent” violence against women, etc., then perhaps.
But if you base your criteria on the actual amount of violent crime committed against women, then Korea’s reputation looks pretty damn sterling, compared to the US and most of the world.
Korea would do well to continue ignoring the advice of international “activists” and ideologues located in America and elsewhere. After all, it’s Korea that enjoys the very low crime, and particularly violent crime, rates, whereas countries like the US that have built up entire industries and bureaucracies devoted to beefing up the sort of “reputation” you find important have only had their rates of violent crimes increase.
The rapist has offered restitution to the woman in return for her to drop the charges and leave the country. She has the right to refuse the offer. In which case the police will have to prosecute him. Just reading the story (I don’t know any background details) I think everyone’s jumping to conclusion in this case.
It is a very messed up story – (link deleted by RJK)
I hope they nail the SOB!
That’s what I mean. OK, the guy offered to pay her off to drop the charges and leave the country. So what? It would seem all she needs to do is say no, I don’t want the money, I will press ahead with charges. Moreover, while the police may be telling her she doesn’t have to stay here, it didn’t say they are telling her to leave, either. Sure, I can certainly see how the police might take her case less seriously because a) she’s a woman and b) she’s a foreigner, but the police did catch the guy and get him to confess. Unless there’s something missing from the piece, I don’t see how this case reflects a blind spot, legal or otherwise.
Christina has it correct: take it on YouTube and advertise the heck out of what happened.
The foreign females I knew in Korea *all* had stories of men trying to: force them into dark alleys, follow them home, and do other… unacceptable things.
Making it known that a woman has a (courteous estimate) 1-in-4 chance of having to literally fight off a Korean man to avoid being raped would be a good start for the poor woman in Ulsan to hopefully find some measure of peace.
@4 “But if you base your criteria on the actual amount of violent crime committed against women, then Korea’s reputation looks pretty damn sterling, compared to the US and most of the world.
Korea would do well to continue ignoring the advice of international “activists” and ideologues located in America and elsewhere. After all, it’s Korea that enjoys the very low crime, and particularly violent crime, rates, whereas countries like the US that have built up entire industries and bureaucracies devoted to beefing up the sort of “reputation” you find important have only had their rates of violent crimes increase.”
How about this for a hypothesis: Most violent crime committed against women goes unreported because the police don’t want to know about it and don’t do anything about it.
I know four foreign women who’ve been victims of serious assaults in Korea, and many more who have been victims of less severe incidents, and every time, the police have at best feigned interest in investigating, and at worst, avoided any involvement. Are you suggesting that if the police actually moved to take action against the perpetrators of such crimes, the problem would actually get worse? What, would it get the rapists angry or something? Would they go out raping in vengeance? And are you suggesting that a woman’s right not to be raped or assaulted is merely ‘ideology’?
You are a very ridiculous man, mkaplan.
I agree with Robert that the articles reads strangely. The police misconduct angle seems a little inflated by the reporter. The bit at the end about a teachers’ meeting reads like it was cut short by the editor. And to my ear, the first set of quotes from Ms. A do not read like they were translated from English, whereas the second set do.
Just to be clear, I don’t think these oddities of the article have any bearing on whether Ms. A is telling the truth. It appears to me that indeed she is, and the article is either poorly written, poorly edited, or both.
StevieBee,
“How about this for a hypothesis: Most violent crime committed against women goes unreported because the police don’t want to know about it and don’t do anything about it.”
You’re not breaking theoretical ground here with some original, innovative hypothesis. Everyone is aware of that argument. I don’t doubt that things go unreported, and ignored by the police. But if you want to seriously argue that there is more violent crime, and specifically more violent crime against women, in Korea than in countries like the US, then go ahead, be my guest.
This reminds me of when I’d hear stupid Americans discuss some reports about sexual assaults in Japan, and then bring up some stories they heard about subway gropings and salarymen reading manga porn on the subway, and then seriously conclude that Japan is dangerous for women.
That’s right, you know, big bad dangerous Japan, and its capital Tokyo, aka Rape City. It’s a good thing we have all these laws and 1-800 women’s violence hotlines and women’s shelters in the US, otherwise our peaceful utopia cities like New York, D.C., LA, New Orleans, Detroit, etc., would be violent crime infested hell holes like Tokyo, which is apparently infested with zombie salarymen rapists.
Anyway, if you seriously believe that if only all those sexual assaults were reported and dealt with, then Korea’s levels of violent crime against women would approach those of other countries like the US, you’re delusional.
As far as violent crime goes, Seoul makes virtually every American city look like Mad Max.
StevieBee,
“Are you suggesting that if the police actually moved to take action against the perpetrators of such crimes, the problem would actually get worse?”
Yes, exactly. I believe with all my heart that if we only stopped the police from enforcing the law, nay, if we just got rid of the police and laws, then there would be no more crimes, problems, war, body odor, hemorrhoids, and cavities. In that order. Forever. And ever.
I hope she gets justice.
Please take care.
Just a few weeks back, we were parked on the side of the road so that my wife could get something from the trunk when a taxi pulled up to ask for directions (that’s what he claimed after he realized that I had seen him pull up on the driver’s side of my car and had clearly seen him check inside our car). My wife made sure to stay away from the taxi while she told the driver to follow the signs (she didn’t know if I had noticed the taxi).
Odd request. There were roadsigns a few yards ahead and every taxi I’ve taken since 2005 had a GPS system.
do what Christina says.
South Korean govt is very self conscious about how the rest of the world looks at them.
So is the lax attitude by the police, sexual crimes committed against foreign women… doesn’t happen to Korean women victims, only to foreign women? Do Korean women get justice while foreign women don’t get it? Doesn’t this story jump at your face because the victim is a foreigner, while reports of hundreds of others that involve Korean women go unnoticed?
As far as Christina’s idea goes, it’s true that the S. Korean gov’t is very self conscious. But they’ll only pay attention if the Youtube videos attract enough foreign attention, which is highly unlikely.
The fact of the matter is that the plight of a foreign woman supposedly sexually assaulted by a Korean man is just not going to attract attention or be taken seriously. And a big part of the reason is that Korean men, and East Asian men in general, are not seen as violent threats, sexual or otherwise, by foreigners. Especially relative to men of other racial and ethnic groups. Korean and East Asian men aren’t seen as powerful, sexually violent, potentially dangerous men. They’re viewed as non-threatening, soft spoken, introverted, and perhaps as nerdy, sexual creeps as far as negative imagery goes. I’m not trying to disparage or insult Korean or EA men, just trying to be honest.
Perhaps you’ll dispute this all as unwarranted stereotypes and generalizations. But the crime rates both in native EA nations, as well as foreign nations such as the US, Canada, etc., do seem to bear them out.
@mkaplan
I couldn’t give a monkey’s toss about whether or not there is more violent crime in Korea or the US. My point is that crimes of sexual violence against women go unreported because most people think that the police would do very little about it. I wasn’t aiming to start a US v Korea argument, but it’s rather pointless to argue about which country has the better reputation based on figures that are flawed. Just as a greater number of women’s shelters doesn’t betoken a greater amount of violence against women, a smaller number of reported assaults and rapes doesn’t necessarily mean that a smaller number of assaults and rapes occur.
Re the article (and it does seem to be the only article about the case; none in the Ulsan papers either): It looks like just another case of sloppy journalism for a just cause. Even if the title was written by an editor, taking the word sagak jidae from a quote from the victim, the article says “문제는 외국인 여성 성범죄가 발생해도 별다른 형벌 없이 사건이 종결된다는 점이다” as if the reporter has some expertise on the matter, yet never quotes anyone but the victim.
Of course as a fellow ethnic minority I’m grateful to see sloppy journalism about sex and drugs and violence and foreign teachers work to help a teacher in need for a change. The reporter is a 최창현 (chc at newsis dot com); the Chosun doesn’t give credit when it buys Newsis stuff but certainly deserves credit for being the only outfit in the country to run the story.
I think the police deserve a lot more credit than is often given. Rape kits and other desirable procedures aside, this case is tight if they really got him to confess. I would hope anyone advising the victim would make this lady unfamiliar with Korean law aware of two things: (1) courts do not ask prosecutors to prove the guilt of someone who has confessed, even if he withdraws the confession, unless he can prove it was tortured, and (2) BOTH sides can appeal, either if he is found not guilty, which is not likely, or if he is given a weak sentence, which is always a possibility perhaps now that he will suddenly become deeply remorseful about the fact she isn’t going to settle.
That’s another question that needs to be asked. Frankly, this survey of college kids in Daejeon suggests local attitudes towards sexual assault might not be as severe as they are elsewhere:
http://news.naver.com/main/rea.....0002774218
Then again, it’s easy to read too much into one survey. Nor does it mention police attitudes.
mkaplan
Brilliant. It is “worse” elsewhere so let’s trivialize the issue.
SomeguyinKorea,
“Just a few weeks back, we were parked on the side of the road so that my wife could get something from the trunk when a taxi pulled up to ask for directions (that’s what he claimed after he realized that I had seen him pull up on the driver’s side of my car and had clearly seen him check inside our car). My wife made sure to stay away from the taxi while she told the driver to follow the signs (she didn’t know if I had noticed the taxi).”
Sounds like your territorial husband instincts have overreacted.
Guess what, men will pull over when they see a woman on the side of the road. All men, both normal law abiding men and potential criminals. Is it sexual? Well for men it’s always sexual, in that while they might refrain from attempting seduction, they’re always available and open for it. That is if the woman offers or proposition, the man is always “down” so to speak. Unless they’re gay, of course. This is totally different from being a sexual criminal.
50 years ago, people in the US used to pull over the side of the road to help out, or to just see what’s up. Nowadays, people don’t because they think everyone’s a potential sociopath serial killer, or because they fear that they’ll be suspected of being a weirdo/creep.
But then again, people in Korea still do things like return lost wallets.
StevieBee,
“I wasn’t aiming to start a US v Korea argument, but it’s rather pointless to argue about which country has the better reputation based on figures that are flawed.”
It’s pointless not because the figures are flawed. It’s pointless because it’s a settled issue. There is no controversy. We know which countries have more violent crime. And we know that if you had to choose between having a female relative or acquaintance walk the streets of a major US metropolitan city at 3 am or the streets of Seoul at 3 am, we know which you would choose.
“Just as a greater number of women’s shelters doesn’t betoken a greater amount of violence against women, a smaller number of reported assaults and rapes doesn’t necessarily mean that a smaller number of assaults and rapes occur.”
You missed the point entirely about the women’s shelters. It wasn’t mentioned in order to indicate that more women’s shelters means more violence against women. The tone in that part was sarcastic and wasn’t supposed to be taken literally. It was supposed to mean something else but I won’t go into it now.
Anyway, yes, of course it doesn’t necessarily mean that a smaller number of assaults and rapes occur. But we were talking about specific cases, namely Korea. And like I said before, you’re free to maintain that South Korea has more violent crime than the US.
Re: ” She had some people rough him up pretty good on 2 occasions. She left Korea 3 days later feeling a menacing sense of satisfaction.”
That’s how you do justice Korean assembly style.
From the top down Korea has a big issue with truth. “Truth” may vary depending on your viewpoint and background, but whatever your version, it deserves respect. Truth and people’s views are irrelevant and trivialized in these parts. And what’s left is force. I’m realizing there is no strong will for justice because there’s no strong will for truth. Fake is okay. Not listening is okay. Silence is golden and avoiding truth is often paid with a life (goodbye President Roh).
The Koreans and their wannabees on this blog who condemn the Chinese need to face the fact that, even if the severity and details of symptoms differ, it’s basically the same deal here in Korea as it is in China. All that’s left in the vacuum of truth and justice is money… the pay off. No one will be punished or corrected if there’s money to be had. But, it’s not the fault of money. It’s the fault of a culture that gives so little value to the search for truth. And I bet my money that the low value for truth can be traced to Confusionism.
The Goat,
Yes, because I’m not throwing a hissy fit with extreme self-righteous indignation, I must be trivializing the issue.
My whole point about it being “worse” elsewhere was a response to a particular sentence in a particular comment (the last sentence of the first comment, to be exact).
mkaplan,
I was there, you weren’t.
Besides, my wife is Korean. I think she has a better grasp of what is considered normal or suspicious behavior in Korea than you do.
vince,
Your confused and rambling comment could apply just as much to the US today.
There are many things, for example, that you could say in public in Korea and China that would go unnoticed or without much controversy, that would get you fired, blacklisted, ostracized, etc. in the US (political correctness).
This goes both ways of course, but the point is that to portray US’s and Korea’s approaches to the “Truth” and “people’s views” as polar opposites, with the US as some bastion of free inquiry and expression compared to Korea is completely mistaken.
“That’s how you do justice Korean assembly style. ”
In my experience, it works wonders for when thugs try to shake your business down.
I appreciate your insight, is it “make-a-plan”? but who said anything about the US? Your argument is exciting but doesn’t address the point you are trying to refute and it is vague and confused. Comparing speech deemed offensive at an inappropriate situation (like the office or in your girlfriend’s parents home) to the issue of truth and justice is ridiculous.
SomeguyinKorea,
“I was there, you weren’t.”
How do you know that I wasn’t the taxi driver?
“Besides, my wife is Korean. I think she has a better grasp of what is considered normal or suspicious behavior in Korea than you do.”
Koreans are the most suspicious people in the world. They’re always imputing some negative motives on the part of others/strangers. It’s kind of funny actually.
This is actually part of my point. If it had been a white woman on the side of the road, it’s very probable that the taxi driver wouldn’t have pulled over. There’s the whole language thing first of all, as Korean men and women are reluctant to approach a situation where Korean isn’t spoken. But Korean men and women are often just very reluctant and apprehensive to approach foreigners, let alone strangers that are Korean. They’re not exactly the most forward and socially aggressive people in the world. This is why the whole let’s whine on YouTube and get attention and “raise awareness” for the apparent sexual assault epidemic in South Korea is retarded and bound to fail.
Anyway, who knows about the taxi driver. You’re convinced that he was trying to buttrape your wife. Perhaps, perhaps not. I don’t know. It’d be interesting to know what “the telltale signs that a taxi driver is about to buttrape your wife” would be. It’d be a funny Top 10 bit on Letterman. Did he ask her to pick anything up, perchance?
vince,
I suppose you’re right. I would need better and more specific examples. Though I didn’t mean simply offensive speech, but something broader that connects with truth and justice. I’d be interested to know what exactly you mean by “truth” and “justice” as these are very vague words.
mkaplan,
I mean truth and justice just like you think I mean them. I’m talking about the truth regarding who did this crime and what sort of justice is required. If the society doesn’t value truth it likely cannot value justice. What this society clearly does value is relationships. But that isn’t news in this forum, that’s confusionism 101. There’s something deeper to all this that I suspect is linked to the lack of value for quality communication in society. People aren’t valuing the discussion and squandering their resources and resorting to shouting each other down and bullying or buying instead of listening and thinking. And it happens in the US, in Iran and everywhere else. It’s just so glaringly obvious and acute here in NE Asia and creeps into so many aspects of life. One symptom is that the police may feel they need to cover up crimes to protect the innocent (ie. the perps families). I’d like to say “it’s okay for Korea” but it’s not. It’s hurting the society in many ways. And that’s the truth.
mkaplan,
Look, my car was running, so clearly, we weren’t having mechanical problems. We didn’t have a flat tire, either. My was looking through shopping bags, which he could easily see. He positioned his car so that he could check to see if there was anyone in front seat, which I saw him check.
If he wanted to offer a helping hand (clearly, none was needed…besides, we were a few meters out of the toll gate. It’s not as if they couldn’t help), then why did he feel compelled to lie and ask for directions when there was a big fucking road sign 100 yards ahead?
Say whatever you want, the guy was behaving suspiciously.
Ladies, if you’re victims of abuse of any kind, please contact the The Migrant Women’s Emergency Hotline.
“Telephone: 02-1577-1366
Email: wm1366@hanmail.net
Address: #306 Dongbo Building, 1235 Soongin-dong, Jongno-gu, Seoul”(near Shinseol Subway station #1 line – Stop 124)
Regional Offices: Busan, Gwangju, Daejeon and Suwon. Hotline number for regional offices is the same: 1577-1366. Just put the local area code in front of it.. Services are provided in English.”
http://www.korea4expats.com/ar.....korea.html
mkaplan,
Look, my car was running, so clearly, we weren’t having mechanical problems. We didn’t have a flat tire, either. My wife was looking through shopping bags, which he could easily see. He positioned his car so that he could check to see if there was anyone in the front seat. He seemed nervous when he realized she wasn’t alone.
If he wanted to offer a helping hand (clearly, none was needed…besides, we were just a few meters out of the toll gate. It’s not as if she couldn’t seek help there if any was needed), then why did he feel compelled to lie and ask for directions? Clearly, he was lying. There was a big fucking road sign 100 yards ahead. It’s not that difficult to figure out, just head North for Seoul.
Say whatever you want, the guy was behaving suspiciously.
Ladies, if you’re victims of abuse of any kind, please contact the The Migrant Women’s Emergency Hotline.
“Telephone: 02-1577-1366
Email: wm1366@hanmail.net
Address: #306 Dongbo Building, 1235 Soongin-dong, Jongno-gu, Seoul”(near Shinseol Subway station #1 line – Stop 124)
Regional Offices: Busan, Gwangju, Daejeon and Suwon. Hotline number for regional offices is the same: 1577-1366. Just put the local area code in front of it.. Services are provided in English.”
http://www.korea4expats.com/ar.....korea.html
@16:
So being raped by a “violent” member of another ethnic group is worse than being raped by a Korean “sexual creep”? They’re both bad, and in fact they’re both violent and creepy!
I really don’t see what most of your posts have to do with the topic.
Unless I missed something in the OP, the race / ethnicity of the accused is never mentioned… is it?
I can’t condone the use of violence… but intimidation? Maybe… Just get a few tall / tough-lookin’ guys together (bonus points if they’re military or ex-military), get him surrounded but never lay a finger on him… maybe follow him a bit… Have someone holding a video camera the whole time… Make him feel more than a little uncomfortable or out of sorts…
So does that mean you find yourself compelled to say “Yes” to every woman who offers you sex? That doesn’t sound very healthy to me.
mkaplan, first, one cannot counter arguments that the culture devalues women and foreign women in particular, as reflected in spotty prosecution of violent crime by drawing comparisons of violent crime rates among various nations. It is off topic, a strawman.
Second, it is silly to compare crime rates among nations to begin with. Crime is deplorable wherever it occurs, and crimes like theivery and cheating are in fact rampant in Korea as compared to many other nations, US included.
To address your comment that “It’s pointless not because the figures are flawed. It’s pointless because it’s a settled issue. There is no controversy. We know which countries have more violent crime. And we know that if you had to choose between having a female relative or acquaintance walk the streets of a major US metropolitan city at 3 am or the streets of Seoul at 3 am, we know which you would choose.”
Yes, it is a settled issue. The violent crime rate in the US is low in comparison to many European nations, such as the UK. The US generally gets an unfair rap, all things being equal. And moreover all things are not equal. Considering the diversity of the population, the US crime rate is really quite low. Then, one has to consider how many are prosecuted for victimless crimes such as drug offences in the US. As for major US metropolitan cities, NYC is statistically one of the safest large cities in the world.
But the issue is not the incidence of violent crimes in one nation vs. another, but rather the legal and social environment in which they occur – that is to say, the seriousness with which they are prosecuted, and bias in enforcement. I believe that these were the issues that were raised that you failed to address by attempting to reframe the debate. How’s that working for you?
“But if you base your criteria on the actual amount of violent crime committed against women, then Korea’s reputation looks pretty damn sterling, compared to the US and most of the world.”
Tell that to the battered woman who used to live next door to me in Ulsan. The only reason that Korea has a “low crime rate” is that most people realise that it is useless to even report crimes.
How much of this so-called “blind-spot” is due to the fact that the foreign woman are not fluent in Korean and are therefore hampered when trying to communicate to the police?
I knew justice was supposed to be blind. Are you saying she is deaf too?
Mizar, quit being a dork for once, OK?
If the victims couldn’t speak Korean they would have a problem seeking the help of the police.
In the US, the authorities and the media would surely focus on immigrant’s language barrier problems regarding issues like this.
OK, NK but just this once.
You are spot on that in the US they’d focus on the language barrier. They would have an interpreter on the job; I know people who do this kind of work.
Gawd, I can’t wait for the day when guys stop running behind the”My wife is Korean” or “My girlfriend is Korean” cover when pressed for evidence. I know NK has gone on a number of great rants, so I can’t take credit over this. But you don’t unlock the key to a country’s secrets … that way.
And nevermind that the spouse or significant other is one fucking person. One!
I guess it really burns you up that they have more of a connection to Korea than you have, despite the accident of your genetics?
“In the US, the authorities and the media would surely focus on immigrant’s language barrier problems regarding issues like this.”
I don’t think our media is quite so bad as to blame lack of prosecution of rapists targeting Hispanics on the fact that the victims speak Spanish. Maybe Fox news but certainly not the rest of the media.
#43
The average Waeguk, by his own account, can’t even get a credit card from a Korean bank without the help of his Korean wife or gf. I can’t imagine how much more difficult is for hapless foreign women, who can’t speak Korean, in dealing with the police or bureaucracy. The language barrier is a significant factor. It would be nice if the Korean bureaucracy were all amply staffed with English translators, but this level of service is not a given even in the US.
This is aside from the fact that, regardless of nation or culture, male police tend to be indifferent to cases of sexual assaults.
I don’t think our media is quite so bad as to blame lack of prosecution of rapists targeting Hispanics on the fact that the victims speak Spanish. Maybe Fox news but certainly not the rest of the media.
Of all the examples, you chose Spanish. Not every immigrant in the US speaks Spanish.
Spanish, Dolgan, Swahili, the same rules apply. The cops would find an interpreter.
I don’t know about Swahili and Dolgan but it is fairly easy to find a Spanish speaking interpreter in the US. In fact, many cops are themselves Hispanic, which is a big help.
The cops would find an interpreter.
And you would know this how? Because you are a no speaky-Englishy immigrant? Or because you have ties to a community like that?
If there is an interpreter at hand, great, but don’t me that cops will go out of their way to find one. The onus is one immigrants to know the host language to conduct their affairs or at least have a person who can act as an interpretor. You cannot expect the bureaucracy to accommodate Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Chinese, Russian, etc etc etc. That’s ridiculous.
Fixed.
(I have four CCs, and had not a single bit of trouble acquiring any of them; they are all unsecured as well. But then again, I’m not a hagwon monkey)
I was in the FDC with a Ukranian guy who got busted when one of his whores ran off to snitch to the cops in rural North Carolina, and none of his bitches spoke any English. If the cops in middle-of-fucking-nowhere NC are going to go out of their way to find a Ukranian interpreter I’m pretty sure it’s SOP throughout the USA.
I work for a translation/interpreting company. We often work with cops when they need interpreters. They usually have set people that they work with, especially for Spanish and Russian (high volume where I live), but they come to us for less common languages. We have done Swahili, Somali, and Khmer, to name a very few. So KrZ is right on this one, and NK’s outrage is misplaced.
Yes, that’s true. But unfortunately, I can assure you that’s not due to language difficulties.
Here’s a UK help wanted ad for police interpreters. They want speakers of languages including:
Albanian, Armenian, Bosnian, Belarusian, Bulgarian, Catalan, Croatian, Czech, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, Flemish, French, Gaelic, Georgian, German, Greek, Kosovan, Hungarian, Italian, Latvian, LithMacedonian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Spanish, Ukrainian, Uzbek, Welsh. Scandinavian: Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish . Asian: Bengali, Gujarati, Gurani, Kannada, Malayalam, Marathi, Mauritian, Mirpuri, Nepali, Pahari, Pothowari, Punjabi, Seriaki, Sylheti, Tamil, Urdu. African: Acholi, Afrikaans, Amharic, Baga, Bambara, Bandi, Banyangi, Bassa, Berber, Blin, Bravanese, ChiChewa, Chiluba, Dioula, Djoula, Edo, Eritrean, Fulla, Fanti, Ghanaian, Gullah, Harari, Hausa, Ibo, Kibajuni, Kikongo, Kikuyu, Kimbundu, Kinyarwanda, Kirundi, Kiswahili, Krio, Koniankaka, Lango, Limba, Lingala, Luganda, Luhya, Luo, Malinke, Mandingo, Mandinka, Mende. Moroccan: Ndebele, Oromo, Othjiherero, Papiamento, Patois, Pidgin, Pulaar, Shona, Somali, Sosso, Swahili, Swati, Telugu, Temne, Tigrian, Tomamanian, Tshiluba, Tsonga, Tswana, Twi, Urhobo, Xhosa, Yoruba, Zulu. Middle Easern: Arabic, Azari, Farsi, Dari, Hebrew, Kashmiri, Kurdish, (Badini, Kurmanji, Sorani) Pashto, Turkish, Yiddish, South-East, Asian, Bahasa, Burmese, Cantonese, Chinese, ChiuChou, Japanese, Fujianese, Hakka, Hokkian, Ilocano, Indonesian, Khmer, Korean, Malaysian, Mandarin, Mongolian, Tagalog, Taiwanese, Tibetan, Teowchew, Thai, Vietnamese.
http://www.employersjobs.com/j.....tor–
Even if other police forces didn’t actually have intperpeters for all these languages, that would still have been a bad analogy. Shouldn’t Korean police have access to at least one persons who can speak passable English?
NK’s second arguement is equally fallacious and patently false, ie. “regardless of nation or culture, male police tend to be indifferent to cases of sexual assaults.” Utter trash.
Hey, this is not a matter of cultural sensitivity, NK. It’s a basic human rights issue. Now where is the evidence of your claim that foreign women victims have themselves to blame for the failure of the Korean justice system?
“The average Waeguk, by his own account, can’t even get a credit card from a Korean bank without the help of his Korean wife or gf.”
Actually, the complaint is that getting credit card is nearly impossible for most foreigners unless he or she has an F-2 or F-5 visa (in other words, without a Korean spouse).
getting a credit card, that is.
(in other words, impossible without a Korean spouse)
Sorry, not caffeinated yet.
my wife is Korean
BLARRRRRRGH! PUKE! VOMIT! SPEW! RETCHHHHHHHH!
And I have two Korean credit cards, got them all by myself thank you very much.
mkaplan:
I live in a city with a very dangerous Downtown Eastside: Vancouver. I would never, ever advise any female (or male) to go down there at night unless they were very, very tough and very, very street-smart. And had a gun. Two guns. In the rest of the city, there is violent crime on the streets every day, people shot, burned and stabbed . My sister was frequently the target of flashers growing up on our affluent westside. I am not of the opinion that the streets of Seoul are particularly dangerous, unless you like the seedier areas of town. I do, by the way. However, in my time in Korea I witnessed 1) my upstairs neighbour beat the hell out of his wife and throw her around the house like a bowling ball. 2) a man punch his girlfriend in the face in a parking lot and then throw her into his car, knocking her unconscious 3) three men in a restaurant kick the female owner backwards over a table, drag her into the kitchen and burn her hands on the gas burner. I didn’t call the cops the first time because I was illegal, I got help the second time and an ambulance took the woman away but refused to call the police. I almost got deported for that one after I gave my phone number to witnesses. The third time I called the police and they asked me how long I had been in Korea, why couldn’t I speak Korean and then hung up. I could show you things in Vancouver that would make your hair curl but none of them really stick in my craw the way those things in Korea did.
By the way, I did report the first incident to my hagwon boss the following day. She talked to the owner of the building, and the wifebeater made up stories about us having wild parties and got us evicted. Powerlessness is an awful feeling. I hope this woman in Ulsan has tough friends because they are going to be targeted if they think they can use this to shame the perpetrator or to disgrace Korea.
“The average Waeguk, by his own account, can’t even get a credit card from a Korean bank without the help of his Korean wife or gf. I can’t imagine how much more difficult is for hapless foreign women, who can’t speak Korean, in dealing with the police or bureaucracy.” Has NOTHING to do with any language barrier, and EVERYTHING to do with the bank employees (falsely) believing that it is illegal to issue cards to ex-pats, despite their better track record of paying bills on time.
Re: 3) three men in a restaurant kick the female owner backwards over a table, drag her into the kitchen and burn her hands on the gas burner.
That one sounds like she wasn’t paying her bills. That response would be a bit over the top for re-using kimchi from previous customers or refusing service for drunkeness.
I spoke to one female Korean buddy last night about this issue and she thinks rape is not common. Looking at the high number of women and children walking the streets alone in Korea at night I would suspect that is a correct assumption. However, a young American woman who was in my Korean language class last year told me a guy tried to follow her home one night and force entry into her apartment. She was very freaked out by the experience. She complained of being harassed regularly. I only know a handful of foreign women here and it seems her experience as a young, foreign woman could be of statistical significance.
Here are the facts:
1. Very few foreigners are fluent in Korean. They are far and few in between.
2. Most foreigners are transitory guest workers.
These two facts alone create a systemic problem which leads to unforeseen consequences. The reason why places like the US and the UK would have translators in the bureaucracy is because these places can draw upon a large pool of bilingual speakers from the immigrant community. These immigrant communities are also substantial and permanent, pay taxes and contribute to the host society, so there is a need for such services .
However, the foreigner community in Korea is not like that. There is no large pool of bilingual foreigners to recruit translators. Talent in this market is likelier to seek the more lucrative private sector, rather than civil service, such as the police. Furthermore, like I said, foreigners are for the most part temporary so there is never a build-up of critical mass to justify such provisions.
It’s basically a dilemma. You can’t have it both ways. I also see here an instance of the broader and familiar pattern of blaming the Korean institution while failing to take into account your own responsibilities. Stuff like this exists in places like the US because immigrants have agitated for it. It doesn’t just happen by itself. You expect Korea to be a user-friendly place for foreigners without investing in the hard work of activism.
So every tourist who visits Korea should be sure to speak Korean fluently because if they do get beaten/raped/robbed it will be their fault if the police can’t understand them? What a lovely and hospitable tourism policy. Learning your host nations language is indeed the polite thing to do, but not doing so doesn’t mean you should fall into some legal netherworld where any local can stick a knife to your throat and rape the shit out of you. You are 100% fucked in the head or a troll.
NK,
“These immigrant communities are also substantial and permanent, pay taxes and contribute to the host society, so there is a need for such services .”
So, you’re suggesting that the foreign community in Korea doesn’t pay taxes or contributes to the society?
I’ve always paid my taxes. I’ve even owned a couple of businesses here, creating jobs for Koreans.
“So every tourist who visits Korea should be sure to speak Korean fluently because if they do get beaten/raped/robbed it will be their fault if the police can’t understand them?”
Good point.
However, I think a great deal has been done in the last 10 years to improve the services offered to foreign residents and visitors.
Wrong. Very few Westerners are fluent in Korean. The bulk of the foreign community is NOT Western, however, and a large number of those foreigners speak Korean, although I admit I know this mostly anecdotally and have no statistics on fluency levels in the guest worker communities. This is also not to say that language isn’t an issue in the guest worker community, either — the police are always looking for people who can speak Chinese, Urdu, Mongolian, Russian and so on.
More true in the past than today. Yes, most Westerners might be transitory, but many of the “real” guest workers are, in fact, long-term immigrants.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but wouldn’t receiving the pure Korean seed be the highpoint of any foreigner’s stay in Korea?
I AM THE GIRL THAT WAS RAPED! most of this information is not true at all!! and does not have my consent!!
So sorry you had to go through all this. Best wishes and regards.
Comment deleted by RJK.
Wow KrZ, that’s really not needed …. no matter what anyone does or says they do not deserve that. 끝
Pay him no mind. He’s obviously drunk.
#71
If that’s the kind of grammar you’re going to use when posting around here I’m going to have to agree with NetizenKim that you deserved to get raped.
I never said that anyone deserves to be raped, KrZ. Who’s fucked in the head or being the troll now?
“This is aside from the fact that, regardless of nation or culture, male police tend to be indifferent to cases of sexual assaults.”
Not all police are male, and in anycase that is one factor, not the main one, why some countries have special “female crime” units, which contain more female police to call on, and encourage the victim to open up to. Thereby, another point demonstrating how much more seriously such crimes are taken in some cultures.
Netizen, could you just for once limit youself just the once to something you know fuck all about.
“And you would know this how?”
Because regional UK police and immigration department have “official” lists of available interpreters. A girlfriend (not korean) was not on the list, but they had no one on the list found her and enlisted her help to interpret for a victim of crime, and asked her to go on the official list thereafter. My wife was also asked to go on the list in that area as a korean interpreter, and also later asked to go on the immigration departments list. The translation company we used to deal with, over 30 languages, was also contacted on numerous occasions for assistance in locating interpreters to assit the police with both victims and alleged perpertrators.
An important principle in Britain, and many other countries, is the right to a justice and a fair trial. Accordingly, the police are pretty much obliged by law to find interpreters. Accordingly, you can indeed “expect the bureaucracy to accommodate Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Chinese, Russian, etc etc etc.” since that is exactly what they do in the UK, indeed all of your examples are actually pretty easy ones for them to to find in the UK.
To clarify my statement, too – in saying he must have been drunk I did not mean to excuse his remark. I couldn’t fathom any other reason for such an insensitve remark.
#74
Thereby, another point demonstrating how much more seriously such crimes are taken in some cultures.
Perhaps. Or maybe they exist because such crimes are much more serious in other cultures or societies.
Regardless, anywhere you go, women are very reluctant to report sex crimes. They are also very reluctant to approach the police about it, esp if the police is male.
“The average Waeguk, by his own account, can’t even get a credit card from a Korean bank without the help of his Korean wife or gf.”
The average waeguk can’t get a credit card easily, full stop. It’s the banks restrictions nothing to do with nationality of girlfriend/wife.
And no to the commenter who suggested it, its not only F2 and F5s who can get a bank account, neither is having a korean wife the only way to get an F5.
KrZ — was that really necessary?
“Regardless, anywhere you go, women are very reluctant to report sex crimes. They are also very reluctant to approach the police about it, esp if the police is male.”
That’s so obvious it doesn’t need to be stated, and in any case what has it go to do with this case where she did report it.
That’s clearly not this case in this instance so it’s beyond me what you’re going on about.
#75
Netizen, could you just for once limit youself just the once to something you know fuck all about…
Arghaeri, you are talking about the availability of interpreters within the court of law, in the context of a trial. What I am talking about is reporting a crime to the local police bureau and talking to police/detectives/investigators.
Two different things.
But yes, I’ll admit that aside from the odd traffic ticket, I have very little involvement in the world of criminal activity, police, courts, and things of that nature.
I’m not sure what Arghari was specifically referring to, but my company provides interpretation to police at all stages, including the initial reporting of the crime.
NK yet more bollocks,
“These immigrant communities are also substantial and permanent, pay taxes and contribute to the host society, so there is a need for such services .”
a) the immigrant communies here pay taxes and contribute to the host society, whether permanent or a couple of years is irrelevant.
b) bollocks, there is a continual replacement, of vietnamese, indians, english teachers etc, so at any one time there is a sufficient build up to justify same.
“However, the foreigner community in Korea is not like that. There is no large pool of bilingual foreigners to recruit translators. Talent in this market is likelier to seek the more lucrative private sector, rather than civil service, such as the police.”
a) You’re talking like its a full time job. Unless there a huge demand for that language, most of the translators are on a “call list”, I already gave examples of this, but forgot my English (of a Punjabi shade) friend who was also on the police lists. They normally have their own full time jobs, as did he in a lucrative profession, and the others I mentioned, but are good minded citizens available to help when needed, and reimbursed on a call off basis.
b) No large pool of foreigners, just who are all these gyopos I meet every day, if they are not a huge pool of bilingual foreigners.
“Furthermore, like I said, foreigners are for the most part temporary so there is never a build-up of critical mass to justify such provisions.”
Repeatabove:- Bollocks, there is a continual replacement, of vietnamese, indians, english teachers etc, so at any one time there is a sufficient build up to justify same.
Robert, how do you know the facebook thread is for real?
I suppose there’s no real way you can.
Finally, if this had been a news report of a foreign man sexually assaulting a Korean woman, I think here would be a deafening outcry about “unfair portrayal” of foreigners by the Korean press. The press reports on all crime, Korean or foreigner.
Marmot’s Hole Comment of the Week Prize (I know it’s early, but nothing else could be so profound) goes to Arghaeri for this:
“Netizen, could you just for once limit youself just the once to something you know fuck all about.”
Congratulations Arghaeri, Robert will email you details of how to pick up your prize.
I AM THE GIRL!! this article has many false facts. i will be realising a statement via my lawyer. i am happy about how the police and detectives handled the case. they were professional and worked quikcly to catch the guy.
That’s probably true.
It’s not an “article.” It’s a summary translation of the linked Newsis story that appeared in the Chosun Ilbo.
Obvious troll.
hey nk, what’s with the wolf? Is that how you want to portray yourself or something?
I suspected as much after “her” first comment, but now I’m going to have to concur with KrZ that “she” cannot be for real. Nice troll.
Yes, I concur as well. Shak might have a point about the Facebook page, too — taking down the link.
Melissa wroteon July 20, 2009 at 7:40am
hi everyone
so after people talking in my name and things going horribly wrong i have decided that here are my bank details as people are trying to collect money in my name and i dont agree with that as soem of them are shady characters no one on here don’t worry. so my full name is melissa claire brouard nh bank account number 356 0075 080493. I AM NOT ASKING FOR MONEY. please understand im just tyring to protect myself. thanks again for all the love and support.xx
Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty suspicious also.
Did she say she was Canadian or Nigerian?
Nonghyup bank account numbers are 12 digits, not 13.
Please, a Korean complaining about a foreigner playing the victim card…and by a draft dodging gyopo at that!
That’s ironic. I guess foreigners are just learning from Koreans who are the pros of such things.
Look at GI’s response to that morom TOM!
http://rokdrop.com/2007/11/29/.....-in-korea/
I’ve heard for years that Korea has some of the highest date rape numbers in the world. I’ve only “heard” this so I don’t take it seriously.
As mentioned, this is not just a foreign woman thing. This kind of thing is also a problem for Korean women as well.
Anyway, thank you Koreans for one more story I can show people, especially foreign women, of why you should avoid Korea altogether.
And thank you NutizenKim. I can show people your posts. They reveal a lot.
“Arghaeri, you are talking about the availability of interpreters within the court of law, in the context of a trial. What I am talking about is reporting a crime to the local police bureau and talking to police/detectives/investigators.”
I am talking about the second, as you very well know, you’re just wriggling on the hook, and disingenuously ignoring that I specifically referred to the police service, gave examples such as “enlisted her help to interpret for a victim of crime”, and “was also contacted on numerous occasions for assistance in locating interpreters to assit the police with both victims and alleged perpertrators.” At what point do I mention the court service, I don’t know about the US but in the UK the Police Force, the Crown Prosecution Service and the Court Service are all independant of each other and kept at arms length to prevent mis-prosectutions.
“I’m not sure what Arghari was specifically referring to, but my company provides interpretation to police at all stages, including the initial reporting of the crime.”
Absolutely right Colontos, but NK is incapable of backing off even when its proven he knows fuck all about it.
“Congratulations Arghaeri, Robert will email you details of how to pick up your prize.”
Hmm, I’ll take that in the spirit that I’d like to think it was intended
And Westermers are barbarians.
http://koreabeat.com/?p=832
I think it’s almost irrelevant which country has the highest rape rate. It’s clearly still worth warning western women who come to Korea to teach English not to get lulled into a false sense of security by the safeness of the streets here, because their ethnicity and vulnerability as transients makes them a target for creeps. Particularly if they live alone.
“And no to the commenter who suggested it, its not only F2 and F5s who can get a bank account, neither is having a korean wife the only way to get an F5.”
I know…I know…
Unless Net Kim was a Korena nation and married an American to get a green card, he is not a draft dodging gyopo. I don’t easily get offended, but JohnT that’s rude and ignorant and revealing.
And, really, only two GUYS (Argh is a man, right?) would take a topic like sexual assault on women and turn into a testosterone-filled debate over who has more fucking moral authority than the other, for what? The meaningless title of who won the fucking argument?
Said Argh (even if you’re a woman, it’s even more disguisting that you’re trying to win a conversation when you SHOULD be bringing something to the conversation):
Anyone else going all English major and noticing how Argh and Net Kim’s, ahem, discussion on sexual assault is mirroring the actual dialogue that goes on with sexual assault? The he said, she said element. The bafoonish believe one is right and it’s “proven” that someone is wrong like a checkmate.
Interesting…
Obviously, the bafoonish side references guilty males who believe it’s “consensual.” Certainly not women who are victims trying to prove their case.
Bafoon! Sheesh.
T_Song,
It appears the baffoon here is you, as you appear to have extremely poor comprehension skills.
NK stated it was unreasonble for victims to expect police anywhere to provide interpreters to assist non-native speaker victims, and effectively inferred it was their fault for being so naive in coming to korea with such an attitude. Plenty of evidence was provided not only by me, but by others, that that is in fact exactly what happens elsewhere. NK continued to argue the point even affter plenty of evidence was provided to “prove” him wrong in such an assertion, but continued to assert the same nonetheless.
If you think that arguing and rebutting such base and cheap comments by NK , is merely testestorone charged attempts to win an argument then you’re quite sad.
If you think that highlighting, how serious such things are taken elsewhere, and the steps they take to try ensure victims can report crimes and obtain a hearing, help and justice, is not contributing then you are sad. If you think same is “disgusting” then you are several steps below sad and need to get some help.
If you are contesting the information provided about how such things are dealt with elsewhere, then contest it, do not make a baffoon of yourself.
“Obviously, the bafoonish side references guilty males who believe it’s “consensual.” ”
Clearly, it does not since you referred to it in with reference to a line of debate which as far as I recall never went into that territory at all.
What’s with the “baffoon” instead of “buffoon” thing? Is this some new lingo I haven’t been update on?
updated
“you SHOULD be bringing something to the conversation”
And the highly erudite,a nd morally uplifting piece that at certain superior person brought to the conversation WAS
“Gawd, I can’t wait for the day when guys stop running behind the”My wife is Korean” or “My girlfriend is Korean” cover when pressed for evidence. I know NK has gone on a number of great rants, so I can’t take credit over this. But you don’t unlock the key to a country’s secrets … that way.”
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