The Chosun Ilbo — yes, THAT Chosun Ilbo (see also here) — reports that police in Busan’s Haeundae area have booked two Indonesians on charges of violating sexual assault and victim protection laws for photographing bikini clad girls on the beach without permission (Note: OK, the Chosun just ran a Yonhap report).
I hope Brian‘s head doesn’t explode.
Anyway, according to the cops, the Indonesians photographed with a digital camera some 50 bikini-clad girls playing on the beach.
The suspects, who work in Busan as “industrial trainees,” pleaded for leniency, saying they took the photographs to “leave behind good memories in Korea.”
{ 133 comments… read them below or add one }
a parody.
my name is aaronm.
Indonesians are smiling, friendly, peaceful people. With beautiful-er beaches than Korea’s.
Their Muslim religion guaranttees that such things as ‘photographing women in bikinis without permission’ does NOT ever happen.
Obviously this is another lie by the chosun ilbo.
Kimchistan sucks.
“Industrial trainees” = sweatshop laborers
“they took the photographs to “leave behind good memories in Korea.””
More like “to leave behind good memories on the photos.” Genetic memories that is.
wjk,
Clearly, you haven’t met many Balinese (most of which are Hindu and not nearly as prudish as Koreans like to pretend to be).
If they really wanted pictures of bikini-clad women, they would have taken them at home.
I’m guessing they were taking very innocent pictures and some asshole called the cops because of the colour of their skin.
wjk, I honestly liked your parodies of the dirty chinesses last week. When will you do one of Koreans?
I for one would like to see what I presume is the confiscated evidence!
dirty what?
this sounds like a trap.
fuck off, cmm.
I am no prude in critiquing my own. I refer you to the Kogi Revolution thread.
Now, fuck off. Free speech and artistic expression hater.
man, pay the kid a genuine compliment on his creative humour, ask him for more, and look what happens!
Oh, I meant, “that wasn’t a very good parody, try again.” and take your meds, Christian.
Would it have been illegal if the girls had been wearing regular clothes instead of bikinis? What if you photographed them playing beach volleyball in bikinis? Anyway, it sounds like a really stupid law to me.
gbevers,
It doesn’t seem to matter one way or another when the photographer is 1) Korean and 2) hired by a Korean newspaper.
from what metro has said previously its illegal whatever, without their permission, if the people are identifiable…but maybe he can clarify since he seems to know that law inside out…
what is “illegal whatever, without their permission, if the people are identifiable…”?
taking such pictures, or publishing them online and in the internet?
**online and in the papers.
I’m not sure if I am recalling correctly but I believe Metropoliticain has previously said just taking photos…but as I say I may have misunderstood/forgot…so best ask Metro…
Is this the same Choson Ilbo that takes upshots of under age girls knickers?
Obviously it’s illegal, at least technically, or these guys wouldn’t have been arrested. But definitely it would be fair to say that this is selective enforcement. I mean, it is no secret that the Chosun regularly publishes questionable photos, and the police know where to look if they want to arrest those journalists, but that doesn’t happen.
A couple of foreigners, especially factory workers, with a camera though, and bam! The hammer falls. No surprise. I bet Brian’s head has exploded already.
It’s definitely more illegal for you to do it, especially if you enjoy it or otherwise derive some benefit, Mr. Foreigner. If you don’t know that by this point, well, you deserve what you get.
But Koreans, of course, also run afoul of the random hysterical enforcement of photography victims’ “rights”, in accordance with the principles outlined in the classic Saturday Night Live training film “Sexual Harassment and You”.
And we all know that white girls have no such rights not to be photographed by grubby third-world factory workers or leering professional journalists. That’s because they’re all whores.
Koreans are very protective of their privacy rights. One of the problems I encountered in marketing was the lack of stock photos – you often need to use American or Japanese images. If you use a Korean model, the rights are good for a year and then the whole piece needs to be redone.
Sounds excessive, right? But what does it really mean? 50 individual photos, or 5 photos of groups of 10?
Why is it a big deal to Koreans if someone photographs them? I think they must be always getting up to mischief and have guilty consciences myself. You go to the beach, you’re in a public place, someone takes a picture with you in it, who gives a fuck?
If someone was putting hidden cameras into toilets and changing rooms, as many Koreans have been caught doing, it would be a different matter. Taking a few snapshots at the beach, who cares. If they’re that offended by someone oogling them then don’t wear a fucking bikini and wear one of those retarded tent type things that some Muslim women wear.
There is, of course, the problem of the camera eating your eternal soul.
Thanks for clearing that up for me Brendon, I should have thought of that one myself.
This story is the perfect tourism slogan; “Come to Korea, but don’t take ANY pictures of people”.
You gotta be careful here. Back in ’94 three well-dressed Idae chicas who had been used in a photo in Newsweek captioned “Slaves to Money” successfully sued for W20 million each–pretty good coin at over $24,000 in those days. They argued they were dressed up for commencement ceremonies.
And the irony was that Newsweek was just toeing Kim Young-sam’s anti-consumption party line, back when they used to do crap like shut down ATMs at 5:30 p.m. to “keep consumption down,” and the conspicuously consuming Orange Tribe of Kangnam was hated all around.
They seem to be making the stage steps extra high these days. Kim Hye-su
Is it legal in Korea to point a camera at a person and not take their picture?
Depends on your visa I suppose.
Don’t be so smug. I hear it’s also not legal to take pictures of people’s cigarette butts either. BTW, the example of an “upskirt shot” provided on your blog was not clear enough to illuminate the concept. Do you think you could provide a few more for edification?
Well, i don’t know why people are blurring Chosun Ilbo and the Busan police. This seems to be a legitimate news story–and shedding light of it may actually bring down sympathies toward other photogs by exposing the ridiculousness of this. It’s not as if the Chosun Ilbo arrested these two Indonesians–only that they wrote a story on it.
I love Brian at Jeollanamdo, but I couldn’t help but laugh at RJK’s comment about his head exploding! Which only reminds me why I love the tone of a lot of the expat blogs: Somebody has got to fill that void of being utterly, shockingly offended. Anyways, I read Brian’s blog every day, so I don’t want to be a hater. ^^
Thanks for the link t_song – I enjoyed the hell out of it. The truly shocking and offending part of the whole thing – I can relate to it.
I think there really is a need for a Ministry of Foreigner Management and Control.
Mr Carr,
“It’s definitely more illegal for you to do it, especially if you enjoy it or otherwise derive some benefit, Mr. Foreigner. If you don’t know that by this point, well, you deserve what you get.”
Last I have ever heard or remembered of you, and I’ve been in Korea since 2000, you tell all you DO NOT want teachers and low-lifes as your clients. Why then do you preach about things you will not defend or support and offer no .. ZERO case law to back it up?
It would be better if you as a blogger took the time to jump off your high horse and explain the defference between US and Korean privacy laws instead of wagging your finger.
I know some things about right to privacy, public domain, photo use, slander, libel and the mass comm laws in the US as far as federal b/c I used to work in that field, but do not know the concepts in Korea. You post as as expert who does but don’t fill in any information for the reader.
You label yourself a blogger and a lawyer and you comment; why can’t you support it or just keep your trap shut.
If you do not support your view with fact, cases law, or cites, it is why so many people think you are a hack. A judge would say the same.
Pleae STFU. I and many are tired of you unless you can back up what you say as an “expert”.
I don’t want to see your 10 second non-informercials unless they begin with: I am not posting as a laywer, but as an opinionated person on someone else’s blog.
Mr. (egocentic) Foreigner, maybe you “deserve” this.
I don’t generally read Carr’s posts, but based on others’ reaction of him, I think it might be light-hearted to remember a joke about under the “wow, that job profession is impressive, though that doesn’t automatically make you impressive, at all” genre:
Q: What do they call the person who graduated dead last in his med class?
A: Doctor.
Big Mike,
I think a lot of people use the Hole as their morning newspaper. They sit down with their coffee and may or may not make a few comments. If there is toast in the toaster, most people aren’t going to spend a lot of time outlining the differences between Korean law and American law – especially on subjects as trivial as taking pics of babes on a beach. Their is a universal law called COMMON SENSE which is the same in every country, and common sense says that their is a line one should not cross when taking pictures on a beach. When I was on beaches in Korea, my instinct was to go nuts, because man, bikini revolution is definitely the most SPARKLING thing about Korea. But did I go nuts? No. I cleverly snuck in the odd shot, pretending to take pictures of my friends when I was really going to zoom in and crop the babes behind them. The same goes for beaches anywhere.
As much as we waygooks don’t like it, we have to realize that Korea merely tolerates our presence, and that we walk a thin line which calls for moderation. Flying under the radar is easy to do in Korea if you have the right attitude. But for those who push the boundaries, they get what’s coming to them. Very few innocents end up as headline news.
In the Amsterdam red light district, where prostitutes stand in front of large windows, photography is forbidden. If you are foolish enough to snap pictures, then a big, burly guy materializes from nowhere, takes your camera, and smashes it on the street in front of everyone as a friendly public service message.
Every country has its own rules. If you don’t like the rules, then leave.
Wow. Is it only me, or did NK just compare bikini-clad Korean beach babes to Dutch whores?
You’re asking for it now, NK.
DLB
hey, you know what they used to do in the United States when a black guy fucked a white girl?
They hanged him on a tree.
And hanged some other guys to instill fear and ‘restore justice’.
What do white people do in America to protect their white daughters? Daddy owns a shotgun.
As far as I know, there has never been a case report of a foreign male being hanged in public with his friends for fucking a Korean girl or photographing her nude, etc.
Korean dads don’t brandish a shotgun, nor do they live 50 miles from Seoul to protect little Soonee.
Korea must be a very friendly country after all.
Just sayin’.
Pussy protection is an instinct and it’s universal. The sooner you accept it, the less you run into trouble with the local male population. Don’t go bitching around like it only happens in Korea. It’s far worser in present day Poland.
last I heard Korea is a far nicer place to test the pussy protection versus, say Iraq.
It’s a beautiful country, SOUTH Korea is.
North is governed by someone named Kim. Trying to restore the glory days of the Kim Dynasty of Shilla, I suppose. Pyongyong looks somewhat like Seorabul, no? Just like his namesakes, they only own half of Korea, too. And dependent on China to eat, shit, keep warm, keep cool, etc. Fantastico.
if i remember correctly, busan has citizen volunteers who walk around in a yellow vest (at least last year) along with police stopping suspicious people from taking pictures of bikini clad women. obviously, you can tell the difference between people taking pics of themselves and friends at the beach and people fully closed from a distance taking pics. if anyone looks suspicious, the volunteers ask the person in question to see what’s in the camera and if there’s nothing but bikini clad women, they ask the person to delete said pics or i guess in this case, arrest them. i don’t see anything wrong with the law.
if you feel outraged, you should focus the outrage on chosun ilbo for obvious reasons (hypocrisy) and for focusing on only one group of people when many koreans are also arrested for the same thing. in any event, they also arrest koreans so get that mindset that koreans can get away with this out of your head. otherwise, you’re just ignorant as…ghast, koreans.
BigMike — Google is your friend, even though I’m not. This topic has been covered, by me, and is still available on the Internet. Since you’re so curious to know my take, and the results of legal research on the issue, lift a finger.
Despite my past foolish contribution of “public service” commenting, I still don’t want English teachers as clients, nor do I welcome their demands — like yours — that I “serve the community” by working for them for free. Remember that.
Contrary to your understanding, the reason I don’t want English teachers contacting me is not because I think you’re all trashy losers beneath my notice. It’s because there is an unending supply of misery that I can’t address or remediate. I spent years and years futilely trying to assist English teachers; it’s the ceaseless hatred and resentment of anklebiters like you after I’ve come to that decision that has convinced me English teachers are trashy losers beneath my notice. They’re separate issues.
Never heard of a case of it in the US either.
Then again, there Korean dads are not allowed to possess shotguns – presumably because they can’t be trusted with them.
Man this stuff just keeps writing itself.
Anyway Brandon, seems to me Big Mike was calling you out on your unwillingness to deal with foreigners and the very real issues they face in general, not only English teachers. Just sayin’.
And WJK, how long ago was that? Yeah yeah I read “To Kill a Mockingbird”, but I’d like to believe we all live in a more civilized time. Think you’d be hard pressed to find large groups of white people today who frown upon interracial couplings. Besides, what is your point? Compared to the USA 50-60 years ago Korea is a paradise? What a bullshit argument.
By the same principle, all the photographers that produced the Boryeong Mud Festival advertisements and posters, showing bikini clad foreign women, should all be arrested.
I’m assuming this is a national law rather than a Pusan City regulation. If so, any of the foreign girls photographed there at the Hamilton swimming pool, should be able to file charges against the Chosun Ilbo photographer, right?
I’m assuming this is a national law rather than a Pusan City regulation. If so, any of the foreign girls photographed there at the Hamilton swimming pool, should be able to file charges against the Chosun Ilbo photographer, right?
“Anyway Brandon, seems to me Big Mike was calling you out on your unwillingness to deal with foreigners and the very real issues they face in general, not only English teachers. Just sayin’.”
No Brendan made a facetious comment, and istead of ignoring it, Big Mike went into a huge rant that Brednan should be providing free legal advice in his spare time hobby of commenting on a blog. Next time there a facetious comment by a milkman will Big Mike go into a rant about why the milkman is not giving advice on recipe using helathy milk.
In short he is prejudiced and holding Brendan to a different standard to other bloggers merely because he’s pissed that Brendan isn’t keen from past experience, (justifiably so) from getting involved with english teacher professionally.
wjk has a point
Well, korea did carry out public executions of foreign priests back in the day..not sure how the numbers compare though.
Btw, I dunno if it’s just me, but this site is loading reaaaally slow. Maybe it’s cuz i’m in the US?
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that this isn’t a law at all – just a vague privacy thingie. Enforcement and Korean law are not necessarily interrelated.
I wonder if the ‘victim’ has to file charges, or rather if anyone witnessing the act or the resulting photo can file charges against a photographer engaging in bikini shots. The article only mentions the Pusan Police. And, say we are unable to find the photographer, wouldn’t it be possible to charge the Chosun Ilbo for purchasing the photo and distributing it without permission?
KrZ
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
wjk doesn’t have a point. wjk has a tu quoque argument, of the logically fallacious (fellatious, likely, in his case) kind. And a tired “argument” (read excuse) that NK has offered up before several times in the past. …dragging out some horrible racist stuff that a select few of the Americans’ great-grandfathers shamefully did last century to try to justify things going on in Korea today. Acts that Americans in this century are rightfully ashamed of. He goes on to hyperbolize what seems to be an invalid fear of his, (white dads protecting their daughters with shotguns everywhere), and a strawman (“Don’t go bitching around like it only happens in Korea”).
“Pussy protection is an instinct and it’s universal. The sooner you accept it, the less you run into trouble with the local male population.”
So is bedding down with other tribes/foreign women. The sooner you accept it and let “your women” make their own choices, your society will be less like the racist ’50s in the USA and the more advanced like the USA of today.
Now I’m going to go log onto ublove to facilitate giving the local male population something to be more civilized about.
and wjk, I’m still waiting for that parody. I’m truly a fan of them.
Arghaeri, going on with your analogy, wjk would be a digital clock.
The only bad part about this is that it could be implying that foreigners are more likely to commit these acts than Koreans, though considering it is just a tiny blurb and I have no idea how often Koreans engaging in this sort of behavior is mentioned in the Korean media I can’t really judge it too harshly. Also, while it may indicate some degree of prudishness on the part of the Koreans that photographing women in bikinis is considered inappropriate, this is really just one point in a cultural spectrum regarding views on nudity. Photographing a woman’s face in Afghanistan using a telephoto lens to peer into her house would be considered equally bad there, as would photographing a woman’s exposed breasts in America, while in certain other cultures no part of a woman’s body has any sort of stigma associated with it. To say that being concerned about being photographed in a bikini is over-the-top prudishness, while coming from a culture where an exposed breast on national television can cause national outrage and million dollar fines, is clearly ridiculous.
Looks like this photographer–presumable foreign, I found this with a simple Google Images search, in English–must NOT be Indonesian. Looking at these photos, I am very sad I never took a trip to Haeundae, because I expected awkwardly pasty Korean girls to be in mass. And well, having parents from Jeollanamdo, let’s just say going to Busan was not something I was encouraged to do:
Link is NSFW (clothes included, but still, I woudln’t want a co-worker to find me ogling at these shots):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stinkiepinkie_infinity/2741575832/
“카메라 기타 이와 유사한 기능을 갖춘 기계장치를 이용하여 성적 욕망 또는 수치심을 유발할 수 있는 타인의 신체를 그 의사에 반하여 촬영하거나 그 촬영물을 반포·판매·임대 또는 공연히 전시·상영한 자는 5년 이하의 징역 또는 1천만원 이하의 벌금에 처하고…”
I was kind of surprised to hear these guys were being charged under “sexual assault” laws , but according to above excerpt, taking photos of anyone against their wishes whose bodies are exposed in such a way to incite sexual desire or sexual embarrassment can lead to sexual assault charges, 5 years or less in jail, and / or 10 Mil Won in penalty. Penalties are worse if you distribute such photos with intent to profit. Link is below.
I think this does mean that if chosun-ilbo ever took photos of bikini clad women without their permission or against their wishes, then the women could legitimately seek charges.
Oops, link won’t go through, but you can just search the korean text for the site…
excellent comment, cmm. Seeing as you’ve cornered clever, my response would not be to blandly point out that so-called “pussy protection” is neither instinct nor universal.” So far as I know it is peculiar to Korea and virtually nonexistent elsewhere. Having been with women of multiple nations and races, I think I’m more qualified than wjk to make that judgement.
It’s pretty retarded that anyone would be creeped out about photos of bikini clad women in this day and age in the porn surfing capital of the world.
JW — Yup, it’s Law No. 8059, the “Punishment of Sexual Assault and Victim-Protection Act (성폭력범죄의처벌및피해자보호등에관한법률)”. If you want to make a horrid translation of the title, because of the use of “등” it could also be translated as “Act Concerning the Punishment of Sexual Violence and the Protection of Victims and Others”. But Korean law titles and the texts of the statutes themselves don’t readily lend themselves to good-quality translation.
This law (amending a previous statute which concerned crimes of rape) was passed in a hysterical fit over upskirt photography in 2006. Prior to that there was no sound basis for selective criminal prosecution of unattractive camera-wielding foreigners.
Most of my colleagues agree with me that it’s a very bad law, in that it depends on entirely subjective factors (whether the photos might incite sexual desire) and overlooks the fact that photographs — setting aside for the moment the problem of “upskirt” photography, a true invasion of privacy — merely capture whatever is already on public display. Why should it be a crime to capture and record that which anyone could see if they were present on the scene? Yet here it is. Extra punishment for uploading to Flickr, by the way.
Enjoy your final memories of Korea, boys! Sparkling!
thanks mizar, but thank yourself too, since you wrote it. I’m merely one of the many different coloured socks in your drawer.
‘Why should it be a crime to capture and record that which anyone could see if they were present on the scene? Yet here it is. Extra punishment for uploading to Flickr, by the way.’
Someone I suggested a rather good slogan for Korea the other day.
Korea, where logic came to die!
“The only bad part about this is that it could be implying that foreigners are more likely to commit these acts than Koreans, though considering it is just a tiny blurb and I have no idea how often Koreans engaging in this sort of behavior is mentioned in the Korean media I can’t really judge it too harshly.”
You didn’t get the part about how Korean newspapers publish many such pictures?
“Also, while it may indicate some degree of prudishness on the part of the Koreans that photographing women in bikinis is considered inappropriate, this is really just one point in a cultural spectrum regarding views on nudity. ”
When was the last time you watched late night Korean TV or checked a Korean newspaper’s website? Plenty of naked Korean women to be seen there.
Join my sock drawer, Brendon.
(I’m deputizing maniacs)
“Big Mike went into a huge rant that Brednan should be providing free legal advice in his spare time hobby of commenting on a blog. Next time there a facetious comment by a milkman will Big Mike go into a rant about why the milkman is not giving advice on recipe using helathy milk.”
Just to set the record straight, I stated nothing about how Mr. Carr should assist any member of the foreign community. Check the post. Also, I do not believe any of the expats has any duty to any other one except to help load the C130 if war begins.
Quite the contrary. I am a capitalist and believe you should pay for what you want and save for what you want.
I was noting that Mr. Carr spouts off rhetoric against foreigners with no case law to back him up, hence the “hack” label. I don’t like Big Chiefs who forget they are also on the reservation looking down their noses.
Cite the things you post on, Mr. Carr, or don’t post on legal issues. I could care less if they are English teacher related, but you seem to find fun in dropping a turd on those issues.
lack of common sense.
A few years ago I walked into a Costco carrying my camera with NO intent of taking
photos and I was told by the Old Geezer by the door that cameras were verbotten. I was perplexed but complied. Never mind that everyone has a cell with a phone and what could I possibly want to take a photo of?
I think Metro had a youtube video of a incident in London where a “Bobby” told someone they couldn’t take photos in a public area and in NY its the same in certain places. Just bizzarre, especially with Google maps and the street level app.
WJK #38 -
Now that isn’t quite true is it? There are stories that some African-Americans in Korea were murdered (lynched) by Koreans because of their involvement with Korean women – I doubt hanging was the manner. Nonetheless, I am sure that there have been more than a couple of Americans killed in Korea for their involvement with Korean women. Of course, I have no first hand knowledge, but it is a popular story that one of the gates at Camp Humphreys has been closed for decades because of such an incident. Who knows if there is much truth to it or not….do you?
“Nonetheless, I am sure that there have been more than a couple of Americans killed in Korea for their involvement with Korean women. “
Back in the early 90s a GI was blugeoned to death with a baseball bat for the cultural infraction of laughing and talking with a Korean woman on a hot summer day. Given Korean men’s reputation for cock-blocking, it’s not a stretch to think that there were other murders of GIs who consorted with Korean women. Both the Korean government and the US military would have handled such crimes discreetly, lest they spark larger conflicts between GIs and locals.
On ROK Drop thread, a former GI recounted seeing a woman hanging from a tree in the countryside while on patrol in the 60s. His superior officer told the group to keep moving. The former GI wondered why the woman was murdered in such a manner. Hanging is not done in a fit of anger. It’s premeditated, and in this case, public. It’s my guess the woman was hanged by family members or villagers as punishment for a real or imagined sexual transgression.
#70: IIRC, death in public, regardless of the cause, is considered shameful for the family and of bad fortunes for those involved (executioners were avoided like the diseased); she most likely committed suicide and did it on a tree as a, “Look what you made me do”, thing. Drowning would make more sense in this case, but I guess it’s all situational…
File #69 and #70 under Myth-making and Legends of Tribal Expat Pow-Wow Narratives Concocted from Anecdotal and Unsubstantiated Memories Recollected from the Hazy Fog of Time
I read about the murder of the GI in a Korean newspaper. Sorry I didn’t save a clipping to email you.
Sure, and while you’re at it, file your and wjk’s arguments under under Red Herring, Strawman and Apples to Oranges Fallacies.
Mizar, if I hear the words “red herring” or “strawman” from you one more time my head’s gonna explode.
Let’s consider a hypothetical inverse scenario: two Koreans touring predominantly Muslim Indonesia got into trouble for taking photos of Muslim women without permission. What would the Expat reaction be? The reaction would be all too predictable: another case of Ugly Korean tourists abroad, ignorant of local customs, and just generally all-around insensitive clods.
Let me break it down for the thick-headed: people, especially women, do not want their photos taken by anonymous strangers. Unless you are a member of the press, or have some official permit to do so, you don’t have a “right” to take photos at will, especially in a place like a beach where bikini clad women abound. You are nothing but a peeping tom hiding behind a camera and this kind of behavior creeps women out and should be discouraged by force if necessary. This is not freaking rocket-science here.
“red herring”
“strawman”
Apples to oranges, NK.
First, there is no prolific “Expat” to speak of here. The perpetrators were Indonesian, not the Western Caucasians that you broad brush under your “expat” umbrella. Second, you are disputing a statement that was never made, assuming that “expats” would act in a certain manner in order to imply hypocracy.
Second, the assumption of cultural equivalency between SK and a Moslem nation is fallacious and a self-serving double standard. On one hand, you attempt to uphold the supposed modernity and worldliness of Korean culture, while on the other, you compare it to that of a fundamentalist Moslem nation. Therefore, the hypocracy is yours, not the “expat’s.”
Third, from a legal perspective, the law, as explained by Carr, is poorly written and questionably enforced. No, it is not freaking rocket-science, but a question of a sputtering, stuttering defence of your precious “Korean” ego at the expense of logic, honesty and the legal judgement.
You almost make it look easy.
I am sorry, Mizar, but the one who is sputtering, stuttering, and grasping at straws is you, to the point where you can’t even spell correctly. The kind of double standard that I have highlighted is obvious to anyone who observes expat blogs and isn’t swayed by the group-think.
As to the legal perspective offered by Carr, we’ve all heard that sort of one-size-fits-all boilerplate explanation before. It’s nothing new. It seems every rule or law in Korea that is unfavorable to the foreigner is “poorly written” or “questionably enforced”. How convenient. I wish I could use those defenses in America, where not knowing the law, no matter how obtuse to a clueless immigrant, is not an excuse. Fact is, the foreigner in Korea is that clueless immigrant, ignorant of rules that are already implicitly understood by the locals. Fact is this is why America is drowning in rules and regulations, where every damn thing has to be painstakingly spelled out, because diversity also means that you’re gonna have all kinds of people who think in all kinds of different ways. It is possible the recent vigor in busting camera-happy foreigners is due to a rise in complaints regarding leering foreigners and what not. Whiny waeguks are gonna have to get used to the novel idea that perhaps some, if not most, of their troubles are their own damn fault.
You’re both losers. Charisma man and micropenis Korean, so much in common really.
Pardon me for sputtering, stuttering, and grasping at straws, but which whiny waeguks are these again? Didn’t the article say that they apologized?
BigMike — Your petulant demand for “case law” shows your misunderstanding of where you are. And anyway, it’s silly to expect case law supporting the observation “It’s more illegal for you, Mr. Foreigner”. You have to be some kind of stupid to not recognize that as a wry observation of selective enforcement of Korean laws. But that’s not my problem.
By the way, did I mention that English teachers in Korea are 70% trash?
“File #69 and #70 under Myth-making and Legends of Tribal Expat Pow-Wow Narratives Concocted from Anecdotal and Unsubstantiated Memories Recollected from the Hazy Fog of Time”
“I read about the murder of the GI in a Korean newspaper. Sorry I didn’t save a clipping to email you.”
I think I’ll file this one under the “Sonagi clearly knows more about Korea than NetizenKim” file.
“Let’s consider a hypothetical inverse scenario: two Koreans touring predominantly Muslim Indonesia got into trouble for taking photos of Muslim women without permission. What would the Expat reaction be? The reaction would be all too predictable: another case of Ugly Korean tourists abroad, ignorant of local customs, and just generally all-around insensitive clods.”
Good luck finding bikini-clad locals in predominantly Muslim Indonesian islands.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-10/2008-10-30-voa17.cfm?moddate=2008-10-30
The law was still heavily debated during the recent presidential elections in Indonesia.
PS. http://www.indonesiamatters.com/503/nadine-chandrawinata/
LOLZ, aaronm,
LOLz.
Robert Neff, you’re making shit up. If there was murder, it was likely revenge for rape. There is unfortunately a strong tendency of drunken service men to commit rape and act like ‘I’m immune to the local law.’
cmm, select few? Don’t fucking lie, dude. Nearly every white family in the south sent their sons to face a war where gangrene claimed as many lives as actual battleground casualties. Perhaps less than half of America actually supported desegregation in 1964. I don’t wish to see South Korea become just like modern US. Kangnam will be non-white foreign ghetto 1. Yeohwiedo will be non-white foreign ghetto 2. Rich Koreans will commute from Suwon to get to fucking Seoul. Who do you think you’re deceiving? In America, wealthy whites have children who have never ridden a New York Subway system. Give me a break. Suburbia in America is very much segregated. And a ton of gasoline is wasted to keep it going.
Commute from Kang Nam to go to Kang Buk, you mean? Your’re a real hindighted Nostradamus.
wjk,
There are plenty of bikini-clad locals and foreigners on the beaches of Bali.
wjk,
There are plenty of bikini-clad locals and foreigners on the beaches Bali.
The fact that you made this statement speaks volumes about you and about the whole Hole. Sonagi is one of those who is always asking for links to support every miniscule claim, but now she’s got an anecdotal story with no supporting evidence, and she ridicules NK’s (implied) request for a source. And you believe her unquestioningly. Because Sonagi’s white and NK is Korean. Just your average day on the Hole.
By the way, Sonagi, I hope you remember this next time you badger any Korean who speaks up for links. Yes, Sonagi, it is ridiculous to demand links for every little thing. And nobody does it better, or more often, than you.
Mizar:
1) Learn to fucking use blockquotes.
2) NYC’s subway system puts Seoul’s to shame? Where’s your shame, man? Your bias has never been more obvious.
3) I liked this:
Beautiful. I hope the irony is not lost on anyone.
Classic Colontos racialist conclusion. The irony is that Someguy isn’t white.
colontos — I agree about the blockquotes. It’s really annoying.
Mizar — Once again, here’s the explanation: HTML tags are wrapping pairs. You need an opening tag, and a closing tag to surround the content to which you want to assign that attribute. A closing tag is almost the same as the opening tag, except that for the insertion of a backslash to indicate that it’s a closing tag.
Like this (for a blockquote): <blockquote>Learn to use blockquotes, you dope!</blockquote>
Same goes for text you want to boldface, or italicize: <b>boldface</b>, or <i>italicize</i>. Leave out the closing tags, and get successively munged-up presentation.
So you won’t object if I badger non-Koreans for links?
1) Mia culpa, colontos.
2) Objective fact.
3) You really don’t know what irony means, do you? That’s alright, not everyone needs to.. It takes a certain amount of intelligence. You have, I’m sure, your own skills.
I’m sure Sonagi knows more about Korea than I do, even down to the most obscure trivia unbeknownst even to Koreans. In fact, ostensibly she knows Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish and more about the health science of foods than I care to know about. Quite an amazing person, this Sonagi.
To paraphrase AJ Jacobs, I’m about as Korean as Olive Garden is an Italian restaurant. I blame America.
Not true. I remember this incident well.
It was a barbell. And the GI was merely “walking with smile” – I’ll never forget that quote – with a Korean woman.
In the early nineties smiling – and short pants – was more than a major faux pas, so on-the-spot bludgeonings were proper.
The
murdererfreedom fighter was later honoured with a postage stamp.He needs someone to blame? He blames America?
Nah, he couldn’t be Korean!
Did you catch this US guy’s name? And the postage stampee’s name?
By the way, it’s great if someone uses blockquotes. But for fellow bloggers to get really angry because someone doesn’t is a bit of a strong reaction , isn’t it?
I never said he was white. I thought I remembered him saying that he wasn’t, but wasn’t sure. At any rate, I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you that in any racial hierarchy, the race on top is not the only one that reinforces the hierarchy. In the hierarchy of the Hole, Koreans are on the bottom.
It’s funny that I’m the racialist. Sonagi, how many sentences have you written on this site that fit the template of “Koreans do this” or, if you’re being sensitive, “Most Koreans do this”? How ’bout Mizar, who apparently understands the concept of irony just as poorly as he understands logical fallacies, or what “arguing” is really all about?
Indeed it isn’t. Press or no press, the Chosun takes perv photos all the time. If women are creeped out by such behaviour, then it really shouldn’t matter if the perv taking the photos is a brown-skinned foreigner or a newspaper photographer of the chosen people. It should be easy to prosecute them under the same law, yet they aren’t. I can’t imagine any of the women in their photos giving permission to the Chosun to take zooms of their asscrack in a bikini and splash it across their paper, or middle school girls giving permission for the zoom shots taken from below waist level. Argue all you want, but it the selective prosecution of these types of photos is pretty blatant.
New York City subway system is dirty.
You probably haven’t even been to New York City lately, fake Korean poser.
this is a true story. I was once invited to a dinner party of a scientist in Manhatten. She does pretty well. I don’t ask these things. Children say it spontaneously.
Her daughter 1: My sister has never ridden the subway before, she’s scared of it. (Her sister is in Junior High, and Daughter 1 is in college).
Lab assistant A: Hey, I’m scared of the subway, myself, ha ha ha.
Prior to Giuliani, subway used to be much worse. From the lo9ks of it, subways in Seoul, Tokyo, and even China are better and cleaner than the ones in New York City. I’ve been to Boston, it’s better there, too. Chicago, a little on par with New York.
My theory to explain it is the following.
Immigrants from poor countries and historically poor racial groups in America take it out on public facilities like the subway. Spit on it, break it, dirty it, you name it. Do pull ups on the hang bar, punch the window, kick the door, etc. To them it’s the ‘white man’s country’, and they’re angry at it.
A Southerner in Manhattan used to say that Northerners are more racist than Southerners. I’m actually beginning to believe it. Southerners are for certain less exposed to foreigners, but they have religion and are more polite. Northern whites based on where they choose to live and such, they show a serious degree of segregation they won’t admit to. Film and tv continues to deride the South as some kind of black hole, and derides them just as often as they deride the German Nazis.
Lastly, aaronm, LOLz.
The only micro penis that really caught my attention was that of a Vietnamese guy who had Epididymitis from sleeping around. I tried to picture “what girl would sleep with you?” But, he never had a female visitor, so my curiosity never was answered.
Mr. Robert Neff:
I used to ride my bicycle all the way around Camp Humphreys and walk long distances in the countryside around the base back when Korea was Korea (late ’70s and early ’80s). The village you are referring to always felt very freaky, very much unlike the other villages around the perimeter. After two or three passes through there, I began to detour on a road further from the perimeter.
As I recall, there was some visual evidence (store signs, etc.) that this village was in fact the original “ville.” I don’t know if you do requests, but I would love to read the real story, such as it can be reconstructed. I have heard similar stories as you, something about village violence against a GI or GIs, possibly in retribution for something that a GI or GIs may or may not have done.
Details for those who care: The gate I am referring to was the first gate on your left when going from the old main gate to main post. This particular village is a lot closer to main post than the newer ville (Anjong-ri). Also, don’t be confused about the new main gate versus the previous main gate. The village I’m referring to is at least a mile or more up the road towards main post from both. (New main gate and former main gate are fairly close together.)
Starting research point for the gate/village in question has to be before 1978 (probably years before that). Any old old-timers in here?
“To paraphrase AJ Jacobs, I’m about as Korean as Olive Garden is an Italian restaurant. I blame America.”
Shouldn’t you blame your parents instead? (not that I think any blame is deserved)
After all, a child’s education is the responsibility of his or her parents.
For example, my son speaks 4 languages and is very much aware of his cultural heritage.
Funny quote, though.
“The irony is that Someguy isn’t white.”
Exactly.
I don’t judge a book by its cover, or people by the colour of their skin. To suggest otherwise without ever having met me is ridiculous.
@colontos
Isn’t somewhere buried at like message No. 44, my explaination, via Stuff White People Like, for much of the Korean blogosphere: White people’s pure joy in being offended on behalf of other racial groups.
@Someguy
What ethnicity are you then? And is your brilliant son 1/4 of four different ethnicities, thus the “my son speaks 4 languages” comment?
someguyinkorea is
claims to be an English teacher in Korea who is Canadian and pretty much looks like Shania Twain in ethnicity, a pretty stretchy claim that ‘I’m not white’. He is half or quarter white.
He takes an IQ test on a regular basis to convince himself how smart he is.
He also claims to have done some covert military work with choppers in the mighty Canadian armed forces.
Also, his son is a beautiful Eurasian, who draws looks, and his wife is Korean, and his son speaks 4 languages. The 4 languages part, I call bullshit on, unless you can document he is much like another Sho Yano.
Glad to be of service.
“Just to set the record straight, I stated nothing about how Mr. Carr should assist any member of the foreign community. Check the post.”
“It would be better if you as a blogger took the time to jump off your high horse and explain the defference between US and Korean privacy laws instead of wagging your finger.”
Hmm, which part of “rant that Brednan should be providing free legal advice” did I get wrong again!! Just maybe you should try reading your own posts
Yes, I have, American poser. You haven’t ridden the Seoul subway, have you? I took it to work every day, and you have to walk a mile to transfer as well as ride steep escalators since the different lines were all built at different levels. It’s a nightmare.
Spare us your stupid stories. People who work in Manatten take the subway, regardless of income level. People who live in the boroughs of Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx take the subway to work every day. Trotting out the rare exception to the rule is the argument of an idiot, to misquote Shakespeare.
The NYC subway runs longer hours than Seoul, and is in better repair and safer than the subways of Seoul or Taegu. It is a great achievement and has functioned wonderfully despite being one of the world’s first. And all you can some up with is “it’s dirty?” People who remember it as dirty haven’t ridden it since the 80s. And you’ve already proven yourself out of touch with your bullshit comments about racial paranoia and attempts to portray contemporary American society in outdated Jim Crow terms. Do you even have any friends of other races? I doubt it. You are isolated, out of step, out of touch and bitter.
Then again you are the caracature I want you to be. Your stooge cheque is in the mail.
“or what “arguing” is really all about?”
Hmm, “I know your not smart”; “take a writing class”; “you write like a middle schooler”
No I get what arguing is all about, schoolboy insults.
Do you see now Mizar where you’re going wrong?
The lighthearted insults are only punctuation and all in fun. Its the integrity of the argument that counts.
what a fucking idiot. NYC subway might run 24/7, but you wouldn’t ride it in 2am unless it’s Penn station or 42nd street, or a short lower Manhatten ride. I have. I have a dick , you see? I’ve ridden it numerous times late in the night on long, slow, extremely delayed services. You know who sits on those trains? Mostly men who look like they belong in Arkham and virtually no white folk.
in the cold weather, both Chicago and NYC El/subway smell like urine because of guhgee’s just sitting in them to sleep in a warm car or pissing either on their clothes or the floor. Have you ever been to George Washington Bridge station on the A train to cross Fort Lee? That tunnel and the Yankee tunnel always smells like Urine.
You’re a fucking moron and a poser of posers. Go fuck yourself. Not to mention you’re fucking lier in everything you claim about yourself.
if you had a pussy between your legs, you wouldn’t ride it.
And there are rich people who don’t use the subway, because they don’t have to.
And there are apparently rich people who shield their rich children from using the subway even during very reasonably safe hours.
somewhat of a faux royalty.
No stooge cheque for you Arghaeri. Too much integrity.
wjk, soldier on. Much as I enjoy the banter, it’s time for me to catch some zzzs. It’s 4:16 am for crying out loud. Take the subway home and get some sleep.
“And there are apparently rich people who shield their rich children from using the subway even during very reasonably safe hours.”
Yeah, just as I said, trotting out the rare exceptions. Yaawn. I’m tired. Good night, sweet sock (um sweat sock?)
OK, one last post for you to read with your morning cofee, seeing you’re my greatest fan. Hope you don’t choke on it though.
Me? I rode the subway to work every day for most of my career, as I’ve worked in a variety of NY locations – downtown Manhatten, Penn Station, Herald Square, upper Park Ave., etc. I recently stayed with my daughter in Clinton Hill for business purposes and found myself riding the subway into downtown Manhatten and back to Brooklyn for a week. It’s a great system of transportation and people of all walks of life take it because it’s quicker and more efficient than ground transportation. And the NYC subway is safe any hour of day.
Sure, some stations, areas of the Bronx, etc. are not as clean, but hell, if you want to catch a Yankees game or travel up there for business etc., you don’t look down on the people you ride with. All types of people intermingle in NYC which is the spirit of the place.
That reminds me somehow of a story my wife told me about her friend’s mom, who she brought over from Korea and signed up for welfare, medicare, the whole package, although she was actually well off. She was riding down the apt. elevator when a black person got in. She commented to my wife in Korean “Oh I can’t ride with these people, they smell!” Later my wife let her have it. “You should be thanking people like that. Do you know how hard these men are working to support you? It’s their tax dollars that let you sit back and enjoy the benefits! “
In my perfect world, your wife’s friend and her mom would be jailed. Aren’t you an American? How could you sit back knowing of their fraud?
#115: When she said, “these people”, race was probably irrelevant then (which, I take it you are suggesting it was). Among the stereotypes I’ve collected in my “Dry’s wordly book of stereotypes”, in Korea, black people smelling is not among it. They are more likelier to be thought of as not smelling due to some strange power within their African skin.
Among smelling, however, White people are on it (hurrah), as are Middle Eastern people and South Asians (aka ‘Indobaki’).
As for NYC residents and complaints about smell, I have no idea, that city is kinda smelly to begin with to be honest. However, they do love to berate each other about being lazy and how busy they are (when they’re actually not too productive themselves). Sounds like Korea actually…they must get along quite well.
I know numberless numbers of people like that, Brendon. The Korean community is filled with them. Do I look like a vigilante?
“What ethnicity are you then? And is your brilliant son 1/4 of four different ethnicities, thus the “my son speaks 4 languages” comment?”
I’m darker skinned than most Koreans. That’s as much as you need to know… and I was referring to the fact that parents are responsible to the education of their children.
Besides, my wife is 100% Korean, so your math is wrong.
“someguyinkorea is
claims to be an English teacher in Korea who is Canadian and pretty much looks like Shania Twain in ethnicity, a pretty stretchy claim that ‘I’m not white’. He is half or quarter white.”
Right, because the life of a Canadian English teacher in Korea is so glamorous. Actually, if I ever was to lie about my chosen profession and nationality, I’d be a bullfighter from Moscow or a polar bear hunter from Barcelona…You know, something so exotic you’d be unlikely to ever meet one.
1/4, 1/2, black, white, Native American, Asian…Does it matter? Shania Twain, Halley Berry, and Eddie Van Halen are all multiracial.
“He takes an IQ test on a regular basis to convince himself how smart he is.”
I don’t take them on a regular basis. The last one I took was a while back, but I’ve taken enough to know that 180 on the scale doesn’t mean that the person is 50% more intelligent than someone who got a 120. I also took enough to know that skipping breakfast or taking the test hungover could cost you quite a few points. I used to take them because I liked puzzles.
“He also claims to have done some covert military work with choppers in the mighty Canadian armed forces.”
Choppers? Nope. I was trained to shoot them down at the press of a button, though. Covert military work? I wish.
I had secret clearance, but that’s because it was deemed necessary for anyone who learned to operate the frequency hopping radios because the pseudo random key used to synchronize these radios is secret.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-hopping_spread_spectrum
“Also, his son is a beautiful Eurasian, who draws looks, and his wife is Korean, and his son speaks 4 languages. The 4 languages part, I call bullshit on, unless you can document he is much like another Sho Yano.”
My son is indeed good looking. Eurasian? Not quite…
Between my wife and I, we speak 6 languages in varying degrees of fluency. We speak 3 languages at home every day, that’s how he’s learned the ones we are the most fluent in. He takes lessons for another one.
Nothing exceptional about that. People who can speak 4 languages are a dime a dozen in some countries, you know.
“Glad to be of service.”
Yes, I’m always up for a good laugh.
KPM
Yes, we are talking about the same gate. I really don’t know much about it except that I remember hearing one, possibly two, African-Americans were hung by the Korean population from that village and as punishment(?) . To be honest, I don’t even remember when the incident allegedly took place.
As for the incident Sonagi spoke about – I believe that was a SFC or Master Sergeant who was killed just outside of the gates of Camp Red Cloud in Uijongbu during the 1990s. I didn’t include it because it was an act of random violence by a racist where as the alleged incident at Humphreys was mob violence.
I think an incident that could have become ugly and involved mob violence was the kidnapping of the three service members on the subway in 2002(?) . The service members were taken to a stadium, taunted, abused and used as propaganda. Not sure if I remember this right, (I think USAinKorea once had a site dedicated to stuff like this) the service members were later taken to a police station and had charges filed against them by a Korean (former?) politician for assault. Apparently the (former?) politician was roaming the subway with a mob (group of students and activists) and tried to provoke the service members. The service members claimed that he assaulted them first and they responded in defense….again…I am not sure of the full story but those who would like to know more about it can do their own research on the net and in the newspaper archives….
WJK -
Your trolling techniques need improvement…..
“WJK -
Your trolling techniques need improvement…..”
I think his trolls are a bit long winded, so by the trolling input to tl;dr metric his ratios aren’t great. However, he did get someguyinkorea to post a 1000-word essay so he must be doing something right.
Brendon -
Quick question having nothing to do with English teachers or the like but does regard pictures – just out of curiosity. How does the law regard those who take pictures of people dumping their garbage, parking, smoking illegally? I remember reading somewhere (probably on the Hole) that people made a living (if you can call it that) snapping pictures of the CRIMINALS. What about the Korean tourism department and their pictures of foreigners that they include in their tourism publications…..?
What are you, anyway, Someguy?
You know how we love to judge others based on our arbitray imputations. How in the world can we pidgeonhole you unless you cooperate with our imaginary delusions about race/ethnicity/nationality?
Same as you, Mizar. Mystery Meat.
Thank you, Net. I was counting on your endorsement.
“However, he did get someguyinkorea to post a 1000-word essay so he must be doing something right.”
That’s what you call a 1000 word essay? Dude, did you get your university degree from a Korean print shop?
“You know how we love to judge others based on our arbitray imputations. How in the world can we pidgeonhole you unless you cooperate with our imaginary delusions about race/ethnicity/nationality?”
Why do you think I’m keeping that information to myself?
NK,
I’ve never been blue all over.
Ah but, while I am blue on the outside, I am not blue in my heart.
“That’s what you call a 1000 word essay? Dude, did you get your university degree from a Korean print shop?”
I disagree
Carr, it’s a ubiquitous practice among Korean Americans. Bring their peeps over 65 and they eat up the pot for medicaid/social security. It’s so wrong, it plays out like this. Korean guy who can’t speak ENGLISH, rides a Lexus and has foodstamps and corn flakes provided by the USDA food help program, while living in subsidized Korean no-in apt’s.
I’m all for an ENGLISH speaking requirement, in order to receive any benefits. That’ll balance the US govt budget a great deal. In addition to seizing operating profits from PEMEX, billing the Chinese govt for stolen technology/copy right infringement. Will make a lot of Koreans, Mexicans, Vietnamese, Polish cry, I think. Hell if I care, they’re doing it the wrong way for selfish reasons. Plays into my theory of why I think public facilities in the US are littered on. Except for the thing with the Polish being white.
Mizar5, NYC subway is 24/7 safe? You’re an idiot. A true idiot. Girls are always protesting against getting rid of ticket boothes and elevator operators, for fear of getting raped at late night subway rides. What a cock sucker.
With regard to your last sentence, sorry to disappoint you, but I’ll forgo the penis jokes.
True, the loss of many booth attendants due to the 2009 budget cuts is regrettable.
According to About.com:
The subway – although not the most recent data, http://www.nysubway.com/safety/subwaysafety.html
The subway is less risky than getting out of your own shower.
“I disagree.”
I’ll take that as a yes.
by the way, a Korean gyopo lecturing another gyopo about leeching medicaid, social security?
An ajumma doing that, NEVER heard of it.
So you have a fake Korean wife who lectures Korean gyopos about abusing US social services.
A fake Korean son who is dating a black girl.
A fake Korean daughter who lives in Brooklyn.
And your fake Korean self, who worked in some mysterious sector, only for huge corps, like Samsung, etc, speaking and writing perfect English, but questionably stating that Koreans ‘eat’ yuntan or some shit like that and claims a rich yangban Kyongsangdo heritage somehow proud of your aunty marrying a Japanese.
Did I get it all down? A lot of inconsistencies and un-Koreaness up there.
Are you white?
My cock is pretty healthy in width and length.
How is a ‘Korean’ like you posing as if he has 12 inch cock?
You’re not Korean, only when you’re talking about cock?
Do me a favor. Maybe you can go to a Chinese American butcher shop and look for chicken cock. Put that in your mouth and suck on it.
King of Trolls. Mizar5.
my own eyes seeing how American whites and black abuse social services.
1/ I’m too fat. I can’t work. Quits working. Receives govt checks every month.(too fat to work, but not too fat to keep churning out babies, and not over 300 pounds, but reasonably close to it)
2/ I’m on disability. (I see he has 4 limbs, in perfect condition, eyes that can see, a mouth moving) I receive $600 a month. It ain’t enough. Looks at chart, realizes this person is age 35.
There’s definitely a loop hole somewhere in how we qualify people for disability.
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