Play nice.
Open Thread #109
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{ 129 comments… read them below or add one }
“Play nice”? Never!
Jeffery Hodges
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Second!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
We all know that you secretly despise us all playing nice. You sick perverted man you…
My last open thread from Korea…
I have been doing a lot of thinking about what I will miss and won’t miss and was considering posting it. Upon reflection, it was a pretty standard list that everybody has pretty much seen before so I won’t bother writing it out.
In summary, there will be plenty of things that I will miss and an equal amount that I will not.
So long and thanks for all the pork.
It’s been a long interesting road that has finally come to an end.
Steroidmaximus has created a new video about the way Westerners in general and particularly Western male – Korean female relationships are portrayed in the Korean media, and my first impressions are that it retains most of the positives of the original while removing most of the (admittedly many) negatives of the original. Most importantly, he’s(?) created a Korean version too.
Sorry, I would write a link but that tends to leave my comments in limbo for days. Apologies for the self-advertising then, but if you want to see both quickly then just click in the link to my blog in my name.
The word these days is “responsibly”.
Play responsibly.
Eat responsibly.
Live responsibly.
Study responsibly. (for some Korean students who only sleeps four hours)
Eat responsibly. (for some Americans)
Work responsibly. (some Koreans die due to work exhaustion)
English:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXfCrrjUdc8
Korean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIni_7VSwuY
Meanwhile, over on Ampontan, there is “The multiple exposures of early Joseon films”, which should greatly interest Korean historical movie buffs.
Was at Lotteworld (for the first time) this week, and I noticed a LOT of women with tattoos (definitely not henna) – any armchair sociologists care to comment? Also, there were a lot of westerners working for the park as entertainment. I remarked “Where did all these foreigners come from?” and the missus answered quite simply “From Russia.” Does anyone have any actual information about the sourcing of the entertainers at Lotteworld? Just curious.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2i23qt0.jpg
NSFW
#10
NWTC
(not worth the click)
Although I should have guessed heh.
Steroidmaximus, I liked that video a lot more than your last one.
I certainly understand that it’s something you’ve got to express. However, understand that Korea is not going to change.
I just checked out a gyopo friend’s Facebook today, someone I haven’t seen in years. Looking at his friends list, I noticed that – with only 2 exceptions – every one of his friends were Korean (Americans).
Why are Korean Americans condemned to relegate themselves to the shadows of American society, only to lash out at American society for supposedly excluding them. This self exile explains the angst one sees among KAs.
Steroidmaximus, what you’ve got to come to terms with is that Koreans are not the same as everybody else. Koreans are isolated from the world around them, a peninsular people with fingers in ears saying “LA LA LA LA.”
So make your peace with it. Accept it as the way things are, and stop trying to win acceptance and bemoaning the fact that you will never be accepted.
Delete your video, and get on with your life.
After the unusually high number of direct “Korea versus white parts of the USA” blog posts (I’m probably not the only gyopo who had to go to SAT, math, and science hagwons and tutoring…so I didn’t escape the Korean-style education completely) this week, I’d like to toss out something from the other perspective:
Any of you non-Korean Koreans ever get annoyed by the yuhaksaeng (those who’ve studied abroad) Koreans trying to sound overly authoritative about American life and culture?
I had a male friend who was in the U.S. for 2 years, and he often dropped the first-person plural when talking about his time there–which just sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Like, “In the States, WE do this or WE do that.” And I was like…this is not a bad translation of 우리 and any noun from Korean. It was clearly that this guy viewed himself as a sort of quasi-American (he was talking to native Koreans in English when he talked like this).
Have you guys or girls ever run into these kinds of Koreans?
Did they ever seem to be overreaching to you as well?
Ran into many of them at Samsung. Snobs who would travel to the States to have their babies, who would make up random facts about the US to impress others and boost their positions, but who would assiduously avoid real Americans for fear they would be found out.
By contrast, one of my best friends, who was a VP at the Strategic Planning Group, one of the top dogs, spent numerous years working in the US and was the most humble and competent individual I have ever seen at Samsung. He knew how to listen, and cared about the people he worked with, and as much as he knew, he never engaged in any braggadoccio whatsoever. He is an extraordinary individual, a quality person and one of a very small number that I could count on the fingers of one hand.
T-Song, I can’t answer your question, but I have noticed that I tend to say “the Americans” when I’m speaking of things that Americans do . . . almost as though I’m not American anymore. Perhaps that sort of dissociation happens when one has stayed away for 20 years or more.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
In my view, dissociation is far better than attachment, Hodges.
If you’ve lived overseas for a couple of decades, you are less likely to feel quite the same as others. You’re more likely to have had to learn fierce independence and self-reliance, and you’ve seen the foibles of culture – your own and the others.
You’ll never quite fit into either culture, but then, it will no longer matter to you. You’ve grown beyond the tethers of culture.
Dr. Hodges, is Ehwa signing foreign profs to longer contracts these days, and do they do anything to help with international school for the children of foreign profs?
Dokdoforever, I’ve only just finished one year and have been renewed for a second year, but I was speaking last week to a colleague who has recently received a renewal for two years. Renewals can get longer, and one can even become permanent . . . whatever that really means for a foreigner in Korea.
I think that some foreigners might even obtain tenure in regular departments . . . whatever tenure really means for a foreigner in Korea. I know what it meant in my case at a previous university. Nothing at all.
As for international schools, I don’t know about that issue for the children of tenured foreigner professors. It certainly wouldn’t apply to my kids.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Mizar, I’d like to think that I’m fiercely independent, but I must admit to being greatly dependent upon my wife here in Korea. I have high respect for those foreigners who come alone and make their own way against all odds. I’ve had it easy in Korea in many respects. My time in Europe, Australia, and Israel was rather different, though. In Switzerland, I did manual labor off the books in the dead of an icy winter, and that convinced me to return to graduate school.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
#12, While the conclusion of not being able to gain acceptance or whatnot due to isolation may be the most probable cause, the other possible option is that it may also be that the difficulty of acceptance (cultural reason rather than racial though) is what lead to the isolation. At the very least, it seems you did not get too close to him (disregarding reasonable causes). I’ve found that the latter explanation was true for many gyopos who did complain, and the group that did hang out with mostly Koreans didn’t seem to care about acceptance at all. For the unfamiliar however, it is easy to simply lump them all together.
“Any of you non-Korean Koreans”
Que??
@Argh
Korean-Americans, Korean-Canadians, Korean-Koreans. I prefer it to saying Korean national or native Korean. And you can’t really just say “Korean” because it’s ambiguous.
@Jeffrey
Actually, by isolating yourself versus other Americans, dare I barge too ignorantly into your own self-perception, but I think that perspective makes you VERY American. It’s one of America’s defining traits as a people–that Americans are all unique human beings and special. Certainly, it is true with your level of education and international experience, you are certainly different than Joe the meat packer from Green Bay, but I think Americans are particularly keen on distinguishing oneself from the people sitting next to you.
While, in contrast, many Koreans–especially those immigrating or those abroad–often sort through things by becoming even MORE Korean. My parents are this way, and so are a lot of yuhaksaengs.
That said, I don’t know your Korean proficiency and what language you speak with your wife and family, but I wonder if you fall into that gyopo tendency of referring to whites and blacks in Korea as 외국인.
I find what you say to be really interesting b/c my times in Korea, from youth on, I felt soooo American when I was there. Interested to hear your thoughts.
A couple of clips for those of you who like mash-ups:
Don’t Stop Vertigo (U2 vs. Journey)
Crazy Little Thing Called Rehab (Amy Winehouse vs. Queen)
Mizar5, thanks I guess. But I find your outlook rather pessimistic:
“what you’ve got to come to terms with is that Koreans are not the same as everybody else. Koreans are isolated from the world around them, a peninsular people with fingers in ears saying “LA LA LA LA.””
Not the same as everybody else? Not sure exactly what you mean by this, unless you’re espousing the whole uniqueness of Koreans shtick. Everyone is unique of course.
“So make your peace with it. Accept it as the way things are, and stop trying to win acceptance and bemoaning the fact that you will never be accepted.”
This isn’t about trying to win acceptance, nor am I bemoaning that I will never be accepted. Those tropes do get thrown around a lot on expat boards, usually by noobs in their early stages of coming to terms with living in Korea. Korea has obviously changed dramatically in a very short time; anyone who can’t recognize this fact hasn’t spent much time really thinking about it. Korea will continue changing, but what direction those changes follow will depend on what effort is made by the participants. I don’t like the course it seems to be following. As I am one of those participants who is invested into the future of Korea, I cannot complain if I’m unwilling to get involved; this is my contribution.
Where’s yours?
That’s the thing I love: people love to trash talk what I’m doing, but then offer very little constructive input of their own. If you think what I’m doing sucks, lacks refinement, is not going to achieve anything, is juvenile, well the onus is on you to get involved and do something other than being a keyboard warrior in the comments section of random blogs. Throwing up the white flag and saying you won’t change anything is disingenuous; you’re letting yourself off the hook from actually having to get involved.
13: I haven’t noticed too much, but in my opinion the students who go overseas for a year or two then return are usually the rudest ones in the class. Maybe they misinterpret the teacher-student relationship, or maybe they just consider English beneath them now that they’ve learned how to pronounce “v,” but I’d much rather have a “regular” student than one whose parents sent him away for two years.
#22
OK, so if a Korean-Korean is a native korean, then a non-korean korean is a non-native korean, likely some 2nd/3rd generation but more likely first generation naturalised korean citizen…. so a pretty small pool here, take out the 2nd/3rd generation since they’ve been brought up here rather than america, pools getting smaller, take out all the Chinese-Koreans, Vietnam-Koreans etc. since they typically wouldn’t be in a position to judge. So we’re left with a tiny pool of first generation naturalised AK’s…..
I think you may be waiting a while for a response from your survey target…..
steroidmaximus, I’m not knocking what you do. You have a youthful enthusiasm and think you can make a difference. That’s admirable. I have been there myself but am now at peace with the fact that things take their own course. I do not see my outlook as pessimistic, but accepting. I see Koreans as the eternal hobbits of the world, content in their smug self-isolation. If you think Gandalf can change that, then you do not have his wisdom.
“this is my contribution. Where’s yours?”
Knowlege and wisdom. I imparted these to those who are willing to listen, and a few were. But the vast majority of people in any culture are self-absorbed. The real contribution a person can make is personal. No one is “invested in the future of Korea” however. That is hubris. It will pass.
Good day, Arghaeri.
“While, in contrast, many Koreans–especially those immigrating or those abroad–often sort through things by becoming even MORE Korean.”
Interesting point, but is it that they become more korean, or as I have seen commented before that without the influence of contemporary korean society that they stay the same as when the arrived, while mainstream korea has become shall we say “less korean”
I would tentatively suggest an alternative case (which and other have experienced in korean expat communities back home) which could be said to still be korean (taking the easy way) while acting differently from standard korean, is a tendency switch between local norms of behaviour and korean norms as it suits.
Good day me, whoops Mizar….
I enjoyed being you for a while, Arghaeri. For one thing I have always liked the English. For another, it amazes me that you picked such a humble (and quintessentially British)icon.
I have found that people are generally assholes and a small perceived advantage tends to go to their heads. This just seems more pronounced in Korea where everyone is so serious about measuring his position against others. Add to that the culture of academic competitiveness and blatant insecurity and you get a toxic mix.
Well you know you were grand enough to be brought up in a hovel, something my humble family could only dream of, not to mention the sheer luxury of socks galore not just a pair each for the eighteen siblings but extras for making puppets; and bringing over your fancy nylons while mum had to use an eyeliner down the back of her leg for stockings.
If you believe that, then you haven’t been paying too much attention to the contributions people do offer – the analysis, the recounting of experiences. It’s very cathartic, which is what blogs like this are about – people coming to terms with their surroundings. That too is what you are doing. You may mistake what you are doing as influencing others, and leaving a mark, but that is not accurate.
What we are in fact doing is building a sand mandala like Tibetan monks, painstakingly and according to rigid rules, and then swept away in a moment.
Am I saying all is vain? Yes. Am I saying all is IN vain? No, that is the philosophical extreme of nihilism, which is just as incorrect as its opposite, substantialism. Sit under that bodhi tree, that old metaphor for life, and see what transpires.
Hovel – I had to look that Britishism up. Excellent. I am learning so much here these past two days. And someone actually got the better of me too, a first. KrZ should be extremely proud.
english..Mizar, english…not a britishism. It predates and was in use in both america and britain prior to your separation upon independence, refer Shakespeare, Tennyson, Mary Shelley and Washington Irving. Accordingly, I would say new terms post-independence can be britishisms, or americanisms, but if hovel is not familiar to you then it is merely english that has falling into disuse. Most likely cos you guys all live in palaces if all your soaps are anything to go by….
No, I keep my soap in a hovel. Anyway, cheers!
“Does anyone have any actual information about the sourcing of the entertainers at Lotteworld?”
I think it varies according to the current “theme” which they change from time to time.
I seem to recall going there when a “samba” theme sp they had a number of latinos at that time….
#38 Me too, near the tap. I’d keep it near the faucet if I knew what one was…..
“Hovel” is in use in the U.S.
We went to Lotte World last Thursday and my impression is also that the foreign employees are almost all Russian. There are various types of dancers in the parade – some do the Samba dance, others dress up like pirates and others dress up like royalty, but I didn’t see any Latinos. The magicians for the magic show and the guy selling the Turkish carved meat on a stake were also Western looking foreigners and seemed Russian to me. The magicians spoke in Russian accented English.
It makes sense – Russia is the closest country with ‘western’ looking people, wages there are low, so they’re eager to come work in Korea, and they have many well trained people in dance and the circus.
@43 – hah, that’s when I was there. We had to wait for the parade to finish so we could leave.
@Argh
100% ethnic Korean with Republic of Korea passport: Korean-Korean
100% ethnic Korean with other country’s passport: Korean-enter country
For bi-racial Korean children, I think we just say: half Korean/Vietnamese or half Japanese/Korean. Or, in Korean, 혼혈.
I think you’re trying to read into my statements as being judgmental–they’re not. If you have any gyopo friends, in the ROK or your own country, you would know that Korean-Korean is a commonly used expression. This is used among Koreans, as I know (at least in English), from Koreans all over the globe.
Exactly.
My parents tried to be sort of American, but I think they gave up and eventually just crawled back in the Korean cave…ya know, the one with the manul, the bear, the tiger, etc. lol
@Mizar:
“Hovel” is used in American English, too.
RE: biracial Korean children
I think the term is fine. For some reason, I dislike “half this, half that” in identifying biracial children. Genetically, Jeffery’s children may be about half Korean, but culturally they are not. School socialization is the primary vehicle for developing a national identity; Jeffery’s kids live in Korea, attend Korean schools, and come home to a Korean-speaking Korean mother. The main obstacle that keeps children like Jeffery’s from becoming completely Korean isn’t their foreign parents but a lack of acceptance by Koreans. If I had stayed in Korea and naturalized, I would call myself “American-Korean,” acknowledging my American roots and my Korean citizenship. According to Jeffery, his kids fit right in on their first trip to the US and regarded themselves as Americans, not foreigners. They were able to fit in seamlessly because of their father’s ties to a close-knit family in a close-knit community.
I think “American-Korean” would aptly describe Jeffery’s kids, too, even if their citizenship is American because they are growing up in Korea. They are not the children or grandchildren of Korean immigrants to the US. If they were to settle in the US as adults, then they would be Korean-Americans.
T-Song, I’ve picked up a trait or feature here and there from the various places that I’ve lived, but I’m not particularly the sort to go native anywhere. Indeed, I think that I feel more American than when I lived in America. One is more or less forced to feel one’s ‘Americanness’ when confronted by the anti-American attitudes that exist just about everywhere in the world. I’m forever being compared to Americans, and my behavior is either described as “typically American” or “not typically American.” I’m therefore constantly aware that I’m American . . . and I’m probably more patriotic than when I lived in the States.
However, I find that after having been away so long — I left during the elder Bush’s administration — and not having lived the American experience through the Clinton, the younger Bush, and now the Obama administrations, I lack a lot of experience that Americans share in common. I don’t recognize the television programs, for example, and the popular culture comes filtered through the media but isn’t something in which I live and move and have my being.
I thus don’t quite fit in as an American anymore — a bit like Rip van Winkle, who slept for 20 years and woke up in a post-Revolutionary America. He nearly got lynched for speaking like a colonial ‘American’. So . . . I find myself referring to “the Americans” when I talk about whatever America happens to be doing. That wasn’t really a conscious choice . . . it just seemed to happen.
As for my Korean proficiency, it’s near zero. I am dismal at languages. Learning German took me years and years, and I finally succeeded by noting the many cognates and similarities between the two languages. I’ve failed at Korean. I recognize a lot of words now, but never the right ones to use. I do refer to myself as a 외국인, but mostly in a humorous tone.
I try not to take myself too seriously, and I’ve learned not to expect too much from life. If I can blog each day, have a beer after exercise, keep my kids out of trouble, keep my wife with me, and publish an article or two each year, I’m happy.
By the way, I’m still “J-e-f-f-e-r-y” — it’s an odd spelling that’s always caused me problems of identity. I sometimes feel like a “Jeffrey,” but I’m not.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
News flash! Chinese are trying to poison Koreans with tainted commercial food products:
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/07/18/200907180029.asp
little late there, vince.
we have seen fake milk,
fish with metal waste in their bellies to increase weight,
yak substituted in canned ‘kalbi’ to be used in ‘kalbi tang’.
saewookang with fried and severed rat body parts.
fake eggs.
fake tofu.
Do the Chinese have ethics? Confu admitely provided Koreans with Confucianism. Did the Chinese lose that themselves? At some point, is the love of money all they care about? Beyond the value of human life, human rights, ethical business? What, they just morphed from humans with ethics, teaching neighbor nations philosophically about ethics to PIGS who care only about money, and justify beating people to death, because they are of a minority group who don’t agree with politics in central Beijing? Acquiring mining/raping rights North Korean minerals, on the bargain for cheap left over grain, and propping up PORKY KIM, justifying starvation of milllions? Selling ammunition and arms to African nations in civil war, selling ammunition and arms to Southeast Asia to support dictators who will kowtow to Beijing. Lying, lying, lying, bragging, bragging, bragging.
A little true story. Chinese IMG doctor. There was a policy of residents being able to eat the gourmet lunch provided in the Physician’s dining room. This one Chinese IMG doctor was doing the following. Just this one dude. There are Vietnamese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, Thai, Filipino, etc. But only this Chinese guy did the following. We call him our William Hung.
He was taking 2 take out boxes with him everyday. Only he was doing it.
True story. I’m not making this shit up. The other physicians complained and now we are told to never do that again.
if it’s free, it’s abused, especially if you’re from China. I don’t know why. Confu must have died a long time ago.
ha, vince. Fell into the trap.
Of course there are Korean PIGS, too.
I remember the Korean ramen companies being accused of using industrial oil to substitute as edible oil to cook ramen.
The greatest Korean PIG of all?
He lost some weight, and he’ll die soon.
Surname: Kim
His father was a PIG.
He is a PIG.
His eldest son is a PIG.
His 2nd son is a FAG.
His 3rd son, I can’t tell. Maybe he got lucky.
All will suffer the fate of Yuan Shao and his sons, if you like that kind of thing.
I wonder if the parallel fits, who will get the beautiful women that the Kims were banging.
Some officials in the People’s Republic of China?
Kim Jung Nam exclusively?
Some officials in the Republic of Korea?
Moreover, what will be the fate of the Happy Brigade? Wangkon, do you think a US passport will earn some 1:1 time with those girls?
@wjk
I was actually looking for bigger prey but I guess I shouldn’t be too picky. Hugz!
my experiences and feelings about long-term expatness are a lot like Jeffery’s #46, just with some circumstantial differences…
Sanshinseon: Your comment number happens to be your age — as I see from the article that you linked to on your website. I’m one year older but look about ten years older than you. You’ve been in Korea a lot longer than I have, and you’ve undoubtedly grown fluent in the language. If I could really learn Korean, that’s one ‘circumstantial’ difference that would make a huge difference in my character over the long run.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
You’re way too modest, Jeffery. I’ve not seen a picture of Sanshinseon, but in photos seen at or linked to from your blog, you look several years younger than your actual age, trim with beautiful salt-and-pepper hair. If Sanshinseon looks so young, maybe he’s been shooting up with Restalyne or Botox.
In Sanshinseon’s photo, he still has his hair. My own hair is racing to fall out before it all goes gray — not a race with a winner that I expect to congratulate.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Here’s a short film about what happens after a woman cheats on her boyfriend and tells him about it.
I take it you’ve never been to a Korean Costco.
BTW, the Japanese say the very same thing about Koreans that you say about the Chinese. I’ve even seen in Fukuoka signs in English saying “Free Sample” and beside it in Korean “Don’t take more than one”.
Well, Sanshinseon and Hodges are really quite the scholars I see. Very impressive!
Darth Babaganoosh, you remind me of Londo Mollari.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londo_Mollari
Are there any Korean public archives or similar thing where you can find out if (and when) someone did their military duty? Or find out if there was an exemption?
Not sure how to take that, Mizar.
Mizar, if only the scholarly world would recognize the truth that your objective non-self has seen!
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I want your gravatar for my facebook profile picture Darth Babaganoosh. Where did you get that?
It’s a screen capture of an episode of “MXC: Most Extreme Elimination Challenge” (which, incidentally, is the place where I got the latter half of my screenname). The handsome gent with the wig is Kitano (Beat) Takeshi.
I happened to be looking at some dude’s photos of his Pyongyang tour, including the Metro stations.
http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2009/04/pyongyang-metro-childrens-palace-etc.html
It made me think about the Ewha subway station, circa January 2007, I think it was. The whole place was plastered with ads for various beauty products, fashion accessories, etc. The women in the ads were all beautiful to the point of representing an unattainable ideal for normal women. It felt evil. That’s how the Pyongyang Metro stations feel, with all the pictures of the Kims, and all the propaganda writing on the walls. There is no truth in either set of subway stations. It’s all lies. Give me a good old Greyhound station in a bad part of downtown Any City, USA. They are chock-full of truth.
“100% ethnic Korean with Republic of Korea passport: Korean-Korean”
@T-Song – thought we already established that, indeed that was never queried, but you were asking for non-korean koreans to answer your question not non-koreans like Jeffery.
“100% ethnic Korean with other country’s passport: Korean-enter country”
You’re getting weirder by the minute, so I was a Brit-enter country even when I had never entered Britain??
“I think you’re trying to read into my statements as being judgmental
Not at all, just trying to understand who you were addressing your question, since it seemed to miss most of the people in a position to answer it, i.e Americans resident in Korea.
“If you have any gyopo friends, in the ROK or your own country, you would know that Korean-Korean is a commonly used expression. This is used among Koreans, as I know (at least in English), from Koreans all over the globe.”
Well you have the advantage over me then. Having been involved with the korean community since you were in primary school, I have never heard any korean say I am a korean korean. If asked where are you from, or whats your origin, I have never heard “I am Korean Korean.”, and I’m pretty sure if I did a survey in Itaewon and asked a hundred korean looking people that’s one answer I wouldn’t hear once.
“J-e-f-f-e-r-y”
Ha, ha, ha!!!
After about 3 years living here I started saying I don’t know about America when Koreans asked about this or that. I’d give my 2 cents as much as I could but sometimes opted out.
If not, he’s missed out on the delectable Costco Onion-n-Mustard Salad™. It’s available everywhere, yet nowhere else in the world is it so popular as Korea.
T-bonetylr, when asked about America, I pretty much opt out myself these days. Actually, I don’t even get asked much anymore. Many Koreans feel that they already know.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Jeffery @ 52: Yikes, are you only 52? I’m now feeling so positively Ancient, I may take their side against both the Moderns (i.e., the adults) and the post-Moderns (i.e., the adolescents). Anyway, from now on, you have to turn away and hide your glass behind your hand when we drink together.
)
Mmmmm… onion-and-mustard salad. I’d like to have some, some day. If only the onion dispenser wasn’t empty every time I tried.
jefferyhodges:”Mizar, if only the scholarly world would recognize the truth that your objective non-self has seen!”
Well, my younger brother (turn your drinking head from me), it appears you do have an impressive number of credentials and life experiences. Particularly interesting are your theology and Israeli credentials. I used to fancy myself the Buddhist scholar, although an autodidact. I was quite a fan of Campbell’s approach and in Buddhism, favored the original Pali sutras over the later Mahayana. However, I soured on religion.
Your website betrays quite an eclectic mix of interests and, back when I was reading a lot I might have followed along with it but to me the breath of your knowlege is a little humbling.
I’m curious as to your next career step. Anything that can be shared?
Re: #52 ~ 54:
any lack of elderliness that Sanshinseon’s appearance suggest should probably be attributed to the inspiring-energy of Mrs Sanshinseon. But then maybe the copious Baekse-ju should also get some credit…
> You’ve been in Korea a lot longer than I have,
> and you’ve undoubtedly grown fluent in the language.
False, unfortunately — seemingly due to congenital brain-damage. I’m trying to set a Guiness-Book record for how much one can know about a country without being able to make sense of its grammar. I try to turn my disability into a kind of advantage, and in fact it helped me to land my current excellent job. I have come to specialize in explaining Korea to the world in English-that-makes-sense, because it’s how i’m forced to deal with it myself.
Anyway, contray to the many rather-automatic such assertions you’ll frequently hear / read, i’ve never seen that really good Korean-language ability has very much positive correlation with how happy one is living here, how many friends one has or their quality, what respect / decency one recieves from the natives how much one can enjoy the vestiges of Korea’s natural beauty and traditional spirit. (it can help to make more money, sure).
The Onion-n-Mustard Salad itself doesn’t look very appetizing. But when they add condiments like ketchup and relish….. Mmmmmmm…… just like momma used to make.
Sperwer, I’m indeed merely 52, but I look older (pace Sonagi). As for hiding my drinking glass, I’ll keep that in mind now that I realize its importance.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Mizar, my next career step is to waste my life — either in drinking a lot of beer in Korea or in teaching a lot of English in Korea . . . or both.
As for my credentials, I am living proof of what a second-rate mind can accomplish. Every poor soul can find inspiration in the story of my life . . . except maybe for those with third-rate minds.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Sanshinseon, you are now my inspiration, the wind beneath my wings, for I need no longer berate myself over my lack of Korean skills.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Mizar: if one is introduced to Buddhism through such a questionable medium as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, and later bolsters his knowledge via harried travails with characters such as DT Suzuki and Alan Watts, and one ultimately ends up as an English instructor in a Gangwon technical college, is it still acceptable to allow bums to beshit one’s floor because he’d freeze to death if left outside?
Do run-on sentences mean an eternity in the karmic wheel?
i’m sure eating onions, ketchup, mustard, and relish is also a big hit in China, Hong Kong, Singapore.
and despite what Jay Leno believes, they eat dogs in China and Vietnam, too.
I’m not surprised the Japanese think of Koreans that way, Darth.
Truly, ethical standards and class has gone the reverse stream of where they came from.
However, Darth, the Japanese will always be known as liers for claiming ‘everything somehow skipped Korea, and came directly from China to Japan’ to influence them.
And the Japs will always be fucking perverts. No one has to tell them to do sick porno crap. They just do it spontaneously, more or less. I think prior to the 1980s, animation in Japan depicted the protagonists overwhelmingly with blond hair, blue eyes, but Japanese surname and last name. Nowadays, maybe post mid 1990s, the protagonists have black hair, black eyes, and look much, much, much more East Asian. Example would be Detective Conan. No, dogbertt I am NOT some geeky Jap animation lover. I don’t belong to a club, I don’t speak Japanese, I don’t eat at a Japanese restaurant everyday nor do I go for Japanese girls. By the way, they did a Detective Conan movie with real life Japanese actors, and the actors made the characters much less appealing than the cartoon versions. That’s because Japanese people have a basic underlying unattractiveness about them. Shortness is one problem they sort of inherently have. Bad teeth, another.
I’ll give the Japanese the following.
1/ most foreigner friendly nation in East Asia
2/ most foreign investor friendly nation in East Asia
3/ most advanced nation in East Asia
4/ most ethical nation in East Asian, except for saying sorry about war deeds.
5/ the only one where you can buy used panties from vending machines.
If you follow the well known comic book, Dragonball, notice the protagonists ‘evolves and becomes better’ when he turns from black hair black eyes to blond hair and blue eyes. Do the Japanese adore Hitler or something?
‘Play nice’? Have many American really forgot how to use adverbs? Would you say ‘it’s a nicely day’? Or ‘I have a nicely new car’? I know many American misuse the English language, ‘It’s real good’ is another example of shoddy use of English by the former colony’s citizens. I once had an American colleague, with a major in English, and I was literally horrified to see his comment on a report card for a student, the offending comment? ‘This kid reads real good’ Ugh, ugliest sentence I’ve ever read,
An adjective describes a noun and an adverb describes a verb. For a country that put men on the moon, I’m frankly astonished by the barbarism of American ‘English’.
You done real good with youre post their keith.
Can anyone tell what the word in the upper right hand corner of Asia is on this map?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Vinland_Map_HiRes.jpg
#82 Keith,
Get the cricket bat nicely out of your arse, will you?
#84 KrZ,
It looks like ‘Infide’ but I’m not getting the next word….
I think that word is ‘Insula,’ meaning island. After that I think it’s ‘sub aquilone.’ Don’t know about the next part.
Yesterday I got a taste of Pyongyang Soju, here, in the US, Staten Island to be exact. America imports N korean soju, apparently.
careful, there JW. What makes you think you can trust the water quality up North.
I personally am not interested in trying Daedonggang maekju, either.
you know they play with nukes, have probably less regard for the environment, stores chemical weapons, etc.
i wouldn’t touch it again.
It was actually pretty good in combination with 자장면 and 깐풍기. Now if only i could tolerate the alcohol a little better…it’s got higher alcohol volume (23%) than S korean soju
Keith nicely inquired: “‘Play nice’? Have many American (sic) really forgot how to use adverbs?”
Nah, Keith, we never knew in the first place because we learn slow. We still use “nice” as an adverb — much as did John Heywood in his barbarous 1540 play The Four P. P.:
But prick them and pin them as nice as ye will,
And yet will they look for pinning still.
Speaking of the changing English language, Keith, have you forgotten the principal parts of the irregular verb “forget”?
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
On the political front, here is Bob Morton in “OBAMA MAN”(Obama Man Can).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhkF3dqXR0
Oops, Greg Morton not Bob.
I am Keith, and I like commas very much, I used them all the time, even in place of periods,
RE: “Yesterday I got a taste of Pyongyang Soju, here, in the US, Staten Island to be exact. America imports N korean soju, apparently.”
What’s the brand name, 금강산?
“I once had an American colleague, with a major in English, and I was literally horrified to see his comment on a report card for a student, the offending comment? ‘This kid reads real good’ Ugh, ugliest sentence I’ve ever read, ”
great, anecdotal evidence proves everything again!
“For a country that put men on the moon, I’m frankly astonished by the barbarism of American ‘English’.”
I guess you learned just how important speaking/writing perfect English really is.
i am sonagi.
i like writing in all lower cases.
i am sonagi.
i write like this.
because i think it is cool.
Vince- brand name is Pyongyang Soju. You can google 평양소주 for images and korean articles about its debut in america.
It all sounds good to me. Since you brought him up, I believe his 10 commandments are worth repreating here. They sure put the Old Testament to shame:
1. Never obey anyone’s command unless it is coming from within you also.
2. There is no God other than life itself.
3. Truth is within you, do not search for it elsewhere.
4. Love is prayer.
5. To become a nothingness is the door to truth. Nothingness itself is the means, the goal and attainment.
6. Life is now and here.
7. Live wakefully.
8. Do not swim – float.
9. Die each moment so that you can be new each moment.
10. Do not search. That which is, is. Stop and see.
What more can you ask from religion?
Or as Mose Allison put it in “I don’t want much”:
“Some people
just never seem to get enough
Some people
want salvation, paradice and all that stuff
but I’m so unasuming
I make my way through life
on love and understanding
from a rich and beautiful wife.
I don’t want much in this world
It’s th’ simple things I treasure
‘Till I die I would get by on fame, riches and sensual pleasure”
“I think that word is ‘Insula,’ meaning island. After that I think it’s ’sub aquilone.’ Don’t know about the next part.”
Agree with Colontos, definitely the old alternative s that looks like a modern f, likewise can’t make out the final part…after sub aquilone
The reason I was asking about the Vinland map actually is that the word near where Korea should be looks a little like “Goyuo.” I thought it might be an odd transliteration of 고려.
As for karma, it’s a bunch of crap – little more than an exercise in ego – and a pretty infantile one at that. It stems from potty training. And if the Pali sutras were the least bit accurate, the Buddha said as much. But then we’ll never really know since religion progressed from superstitious crap to big business.
So JW lives in Staten Island? I’ve lived there myself, in Tottenville. Used to be a decent place to live.
“final work Zamoyedzum – which would fit with the samoyeds of siberia, Kamkatchka?
forget kamkatcka – momentary brainwave
“Zamoyedzum – which would fit with the samoyeds of siberia”
aha! Very good call.
what Buddhist does not believe in Karma?
what Korean says Seoul is a bad substitute for Beijing?
hell if I know.
KrZ. I like old maps, especially ones that are not accurate. How did you find yours? You have more?
Thanks, your friend, wjk.
Um, none? Never heard of idiomatic English and you have the “brass neck” to call yourself an English teacher? Personally, I think you’re “daft as a brush” for acting the “dog in the manger,” and a little “hairy at the heel.”
Damn you British for passing on this godawful excuse for a language and then complaining about the industrious Americans improving it.
wjk,
I was reading about how a new 5-year study of the Vinland map had concluded that it was indeed authentic ( http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre56g583-us-map-america/ ). Looked the map up on wikipedia and found it interesting.
@84 it says Dokdo.
(or would it be more funny if I said Takeshima?)
I certainly didn’t think of it as an americanism any more than the idiomatic “don’t play dirty…”
Re: 98
I’ve conducted a number of different “pyeongyang” soju tasting contests with north korean soju i’ve picked up at Kim Jong-il’s restaurant in Beijing. One of the tastings done here in Korea can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRU5-Fq1b8
Personally, I like it. I’ve tried three different north korean brands and the best I tried was called Kumkangsan. It was made with a mix of grains including corn. It was slightly sweeter than most soju and around 24% alcohol. But, the differences are not huge and most of the difference you taste has to do with the alcohol content. Try a taste test against some other brands if you are curious and see what you come up with.
If you do I have suggestions: Use small amounts to taste… don’t let your test subjects get loopy too fast. Try blind tasting if you can. Rinse with water and bland snacks between tastes. And of course, document your results. Cheers!
Yeah, the one that i tried had corn also — wouldn’t be surprised if they are actually from same manufacturer — which did make it sweeter than the usual s korean soju.
Mose Allison!
Thanks for that. Takes me back 45 years when I first heard his stuff while in high school and it (sadly, only) momentarily got me off the mainline of the achievement express and onto the slow freight of contemplative sensuality.
Yes, Sperwer, Mose is one of the real geniouses. 45 years is quite a while back. For me it was, let me see, just 35 years back. Tip of the hat to you. Oh the Stephen Bachelor book. I remember that too.
Arghaeri:”I certainly didn’t think of it as an americanism any more than the idiomatic ‘don’t play dirty…’ ”
As long as you don’t do me dirty. You see, I really do know my grammar.
Goldman Sachs mugged America.
Re: Mose Allison
“If you’re going to the city, you better bring some cash. Because the people in the city don’t mess around with trash”
Nice? sentiment from Mose and all sung to a very, very pedestrian 1-4-5 piano blues riff. But have you checked out ‘brown eyed girls?’. Now that’s some really deep stuff that can guide you on life’s mission…uhm, what was I doing in Korea again?
Keith:” Ugh, ugliest sentence I’ve ever read.”
At least it was a full sentence.
Krugman agrees, shakuhachi.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/opinion/17krugman.html?bl&ex=1247976000&en=7d0339b05bc2733a&ei=5087
Brown eyed girls? Now there’s a distinctive characteristic.
Darth Babaganoosh:”Not sure how to take that, Mizar.”
Considering the source, at face value, I’d think.
But, you know, I’m not really a sock puppet. It’s just that there was no bodies to inhabit so I had to improvise.
anyway if language didn’t change and evolve maybe I would’ve understood Chaucer in english lit classes ….
Keith, you should be more grateful to those barbarians, for without them, they might just be speaking either German or Russian instead of English in England.
“BBC reports that six puppies cloned from a Canadian-born sniffer dog in late 2007 have reported for duty to check for drugs at Seoul’s Incheon International Airport after completing a 16-month training course. The customs agency says clones help to lower crime-fighting costs as it is difficult to find good sniffer dogs. Only about 30% of naturally-born sniffer dogs make the grade, but South Korean scientists say that could rise to 90% using the cloning method. The puppies, each called ‘Toppy’ for ‘Tomorrow’s Puppy,’ are part of a litter of seven who were cloned from a ‘superb’ drug-sniffing Canadian Labrador retriever called Chase at a cost of about $239,000. ‘They are the world’s first cloned sniffer dogs deployed at work,’ says customs spokesman Park Jeong-Heon. ‘They showed better performances in detecting illegal drugs during the training than other naturally-born sniffer dogs that we have.’”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8158097.stm
@_@
KrZ, I was about to have peeps discuss that, but glad you brought it up.
Imagine. Hwang Woosuk’s work is being applied to sniff out drugs from foreigners trying to smuggle illicit drugs into South Korea !
It’s funky.
Well, news about cloned dogs being put to work as sniffer dogs is surprising enough to elicit a holy fucking shit! out of someone like me, who hasn’t been reading up in this area.
Keith, “literally horrified” is a bit of a joke — the inflationary misuse of “literally” by alleged English speakers is something we Americans laugh about quite a lot these days, though it doesn’t stop the misuse. It’s just as well, or we’d have to find something else to laugh about. Here’s the thing: what does “literally horrified” even mean? If you’d said, “my jaw literally dropped to the floor,” we could have a good laugh at the mental image of your jaw falling off your face and hitting the floor. But as far as I can see, “literally horrified” is about the same as “figuratively horrified.”
And then there’s this:
” For a country that put men on the moon, I’m frankly astonished by the barbarism of American ‘English’.” This isn’t quite a dangling clause, not quite incorrect, but clumsy. The way you’ve constructed this sentence, it almost sounds as if you are the country that put men on the moon. Perhaps you are.
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